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DRM Group Set To Phase Out "Analog Hole"

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the next-we-encrypt-the-output-of-your-optic-nerve dept.

Television 417

eldavojohn writes "In yet another bid to make your life a little more annoying, our DRM overlords at the AACS Licensing Authority have released a new AACS Adopter Agreement. The riveting, 188-page PDF will inform you that — in the name of Digital Rights Management — there will be new limitations set on devices that decrypt Blu-Ray discs. HDMI already has the awesome encryption of HDCP between the device and the display unit. But Blu-Ray still has the Achilles heel of analog players that allow someone to merely re-encode the analog signal back to an unencrypted digital format. So if you have an analog HDTV, hang on to those analog decoders and hope they never break; by 2013 you won't be able to buy a new one. Ars points out the inherent stupidity in this charade: 'Particularly puzzling is the fact that plugging the so-called "analog hole" won't stop direct digital ripping, enabled by software such as AnyDVD HD. And even the MPAA itself recommends using a camcorder pointed at a TV as a way to make fair use copies, creating another analog hole.' And so the cat and mouse game continues. On that subject, DVD Jon's legit company just brought out a billboard ad for his product doubleTwist next to Apple's San Fransisco store. It reads, 'The Cure for iPhone Envy. Your iTunes library on any device. In seconds.' So while he's busy taunting Apple, I'm certain there are others who might have some free time to look at Blu-Ray and the 'uncrackable' AACS."

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DRM (5, Insightful)

portnux (630256) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307771)

That is one compelling reason to not upgrade to Blu-Ray, if you ask me.

Re:DRM (2, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307855)

Sadly, there are no non-DRM'ed alternatives. The downloaded stuff is the only other option and it has even *WORSE* DRM.

Re:DRM (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28307901)

That's funny, I've never seen any DRM on the stuff I download ;)

Re:DRM (4, Insightful)

tjonnyc999 (1423763) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308075)

Yeah, me neither. Also, what are those "previews" and "FBI warnings" people are complaining about?

Re:DRM (2, Informative)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308405)

LOL, no LEGAL alternatives.

not against the law (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308521)

Illegal is a sick bird.

'Nuff said.

Re:DRM (0)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308527)

Fail. It's never been declared illegal.

So once again, I've never seen FBI warnings or DRM on anything I've downloaded.

Re:DRM (1)

Abreu (173023) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308649)

It's legal to download where I live

Re:DRM (1)

zwei2stein (782480) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308119)

Are you sure, there are no alternatives?

Just small example:

Re:DRM (1)

cheftw (996831) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308351)

I thought real man's entertainment was ignoring good points made by others in order to complain about their lack of nescessary apostrophe.

Re:DRM (5, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308481)

Piracy. No, seriously. These people are creating new rights for themselves, by locking up their content in a way that was never intended by those who invented copyright. Copyright exists for one single purpose: to create an incentive for the creation of new content, and it was structured as a time-limited monopoly, not a perpetual one. As such, I have absolutely no qualms with breaking the laws they've bought over the past 50 years.

Now, if you do have problems with piracy, might I suggest this alternative: by the Blu-ray disc, thus paying the content creator for their work, and then download a pirated copy. At least then you can still avail yourself of the rights (such as format shifting) that they're trying to take away from you. Of course, this still rewards the content creators, thus encouraging further attempts to restrict your use of the material you bought with your hard-earned cash...

Re:DRM (4, Interesting)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308673)

Can you try calling them entitlements? When you call them rights, you play into the hands of those you philosophically oppose. Telling someone you want to take away a group of peoples rights always sounds bad and closes the discussion before it's begun. Tell someone you want to take away a group of peoples entitlements and suddenly they want to discuss the merits of your proposal.

Re:DRM (3, Insightful)

qortra (591818) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308059)

I haven't upgraded for that same reason - however, keep in mind DVDs had DRM too. It just sucked.

Re:DRM (1)

Reece400 (584378) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308439)

Even most VHS copy protection (macrovision).

Re:DRM (1)

mcvos (645701) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308565)

Even most VHS copy protection (macrovision).

That reminds me of a guy who bought a third VHS recorder in order to copy protected tapes.

Re:DRM (1)

mark-t (151149) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308279)

Uhmmm... look around...

What else is there?

Re:DRM (1)

Taibhsear (1286214) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308323)

Yeah, I just upgraded to .mkv from tpb. Saves me the hassle of yet another clunky box under my tv and repurchasing every movie I already own.

Re:DRM (4, Informative)

noidentity (188756) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308549)

That is one compelling reason to not upgrade to Blu-Ray, if you ask me.

I think you mean "downgrade". But don't worry, if you get the pirated version, it won't have this restriction (and you will be able to start the feature immediately, without all the unskippable warnings, advertisements, and menu animations).

Obligatory (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28307773)

I for one do not welcome our AACS DRM overlords!

I, for one, welcome our new DRM overlords. (5, Funny)

tjonnyc999 (1423763) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307787)

And wish them a heartfelt "goodluckwiththat".

Re:I, for one, welcome our new DRM overlords. (2, Insightful)

GreenTech11 (1471589) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308375)

I hope they have baked cookies for the angry mod that will be outside thier offices tomorrow morning

Angry mobs like cookies..

Re:I, for one, welcome our new DRM overlords. (1)

mcvos (645701) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308591)

I hope they have baked cookies for the angry mod that will be outside thier offices tomorrow morning

Or they might lose karma!

Rob Malda's "Analog Hole" is No More... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28307817)

For those two of you who don't know, Rob Malda is a 26-year old white male with a short, stocky build like a wrestler. He sports a beard and his head is shaved. He responded to my ad to be interviewed for this article wearing only leather chaps (sans pants), leather boots and a leather vest. I could see that both of his nipples were pierced with large-gauge silver rings.

Questioner: I hope you won't be offended if I ask you to prove to me that you're a nullo. Just so that our readers will know that this isn't a fake.

Rob: Sure, no problem. (stands and unbuckles pants and drops them to his ankles, revealing a smooth, shaven crotch with only a thin scar to show where his genitals once were).

Q: Thank you. That's a remarkable sight.

(laughs and pulls pants back up). Most people think so.

Q: What made you decide to become a nullo?

(pauses). Well, it really wasn't entirely my decision.

Q: Excuse me?

The idea wasn't mine. It was my lover's idea.

Q: Please explain what you mean.

Okay, it's a long story. You have to understand my relationship with Michael before you'll know what happened.

Q: We have plenty of time. Please go on.

Both of us were into the leather lifestyle when we met through a personal ad. Michael's ad was very specific: he was looking for someone to completely dominate and modify to his pleasure. In other word, a slave.

The ad intrigued me. I had been in a number of B&D scenes and also some S&M, but I found them unsatisfying because they were all temporary. After the fun was over, everybody went on with life as usual.

I was looking for a complete life change. I wanted to meet someone who would be part of my life forever. Someone who would control me and change me at his whim.

Q: In other words, you're a true masochist.

Oh yes, no doubt about that. I've always been totally passive in my sexual relationships.

Anyway, we met and there was instant chemistry. Michael is a few years older than me and very good looking. Our personalities meshed totally. He's very dominant.

I went back to his place after drinks and had the best sex of my life. That's when I knew I was going to be with Michael for a long, long time.

Q: What sort of things did you two do?

It was very heavy right away. He restrained me and whipped me for quite awhile. He put clamps on my nipples and a ball gag in my mouth. And he hung a ball bag on my sack with some very heavy weights. That bag really bounced around when Michael fucked me from behind.

Q: Ouch.

(laughs) Yeah, no kidding. At first I didn't think I could take the pain, but Michael worked me through it and after awhile I was flying. I was sorry when it was over.

Michael enjoyed it as much as I did. Afterwards he talked about what kind of a commitment I'd have to make if I wanted to stay with him.

Q: What did he say exactly?

Well, besides agreeing to be his slave in every way, I'd have to be ready to be modified. To have my body modified.

Q: Did he explain what he meant by that?

Not specifically, but I got the general idea. I guessed that something like castration might be part of it.

Q: How did that make you feel?

(laughs) I think it would make any guy a little hesitant.

Q: But it didn't stop you from agreeing to Michael's terms?

No it didn't. I was totally hooked on this man. I knew that I was willing to pay any price to be with him.

Anyway, a few days later I moved in with Michael. He gave me the rules right away: I'd have to be naked at all times while we were indoors, except for a leather dog collar that I could never take off. I had to keep my head shaved. And I had to wear a butt plug except when I needed to take a shit or when we were having sex.

I had to sleep on the floor next to his bed. I ate all my food on the floor, too.

The next day he took me to a piercing parlor where he had my nipples done, and a Prince Albert put into the head of my cock.

Q: Heavy stuff.

Yeah, and it got heavier. He used me as a toilet, pissing in my mouth. I had to lick his asshole clean after he took a shit, too. It was all part of a process to break down any sense of individuality I had. After awhile, I wouldn't hesitate to do anything he asked.

Q: Did the sex get rougher?

Oh God, yeah. He started fisting me every time we had sex. But he really started concentrating on my cock and balls, working them over for hours at a time.

He put pins into the head of my cock and into my sack. He attached clothespins up and down my cock and around my sack. The pain was pretty bad. He had to gag me to keep me from screaming.

Q: When did the idea of nullification come up?

Well, it wasn't nullification at first. He started talking about how I needed to make a greater commitment to him, to do something to show that I was dedicated to him for life.

When I asked him what he meant, he said that he wanted to take my balls.

Q: How did you respond?

Not very well at first. I told him that I liked being a man and didn't want to become a eunuch. But he kept at me, and wore me down. He reminded me that I agreed to be modified according to his wishes, and this is what he wanted for me. Anything less would show that I wasn't really committed to the relationship. And besides, I was a total bottom and didn't really need my balls.

It took about a week before I agreed to be castrated. But I wasn't happy about it, believe me.

Q: How did he castrate you?

Michael had a friend who was into the eunuch scene. One night he came over with his bag of toys, and Michael told me that this was it. I was gonna lose my nuts then and there.

Q: Did you think of resisting?

I did for a minute, but deep down I knew there was no way. I just didn't want to lose Michael. I'd rather lose my balls.

Michael's friend restrained me on the living room floor while Michael videotaped us. He used an elastrator to put a band around my sack.

Q: That must have really hurt.

Hell yeah. It's liked getting kicked in the balls over and over again. I screamed for him to cut the band off, but he just kept on going, putting more bands on me. I had four bands around my sack when he finished.

I was rolling around on the floor screaming, while Michael just videotaped me. Eventually, my sack got numb and the pain subsided. I looked between my legs and could see my sack was a dark purple. I knew my balls were dying inside.

Michael and his friend left the room and turned out the light. I lay there for hours, crying because I was turning into a eunuch and there wasn't anything I could do about it.

Q: What happened then?

Eventually I fell asleep from exhaustion. Then the light switched on and I could see Michael's friend kneeling between my legs, touching my sack. I heard him tell Michael that my balls were dead.

Q: How did Michael react?

Very pleased. He bent down and felt around my sack. He said that it felt cold.

Michael's friend told me that I needed to keep the bands on. He said that eventually my balls and sack would dry up and fall off. I just nodded. What else could I do at that point?

Q: Did it happen just like Michael's friend said?

Yeah, a week or so later my package just fell off. Michael put it in a jar of alcohol to preserve it. It's on the table next to his bed.

Q: How did things go after that?

Michael was really loving to me. He kept saying how proud he was of me, how grateful that I had made the commitment to him. He even let me sleep in his bed.

Q: What about the sex?

We waited awhile after my castration, and then took it easy until I was completely healed. At first I was able to get hard, but as the weeks went by my erections began to disappear.

That pleased Michael. He liked fucking me and feeling my limp cock. It made his dominance over me even greater.

Q: When did he start talking about making you a nullo?

A couple of months after he took my nuts. Our sex had gotten to be just as rough as before the castration. He really got off on torturing my cock. Then he started saying stuff like, "Why do you even need this anymore?"

That freaked me out. I always thought that he might someday take my balls, but I never imagined that he'd go all the way. I told him that I wanted to keep my dick.

Q: How did he react to that?

At first he didn't say much. But he kept pushing. Michael said I would look so nice being smooth between my legs. He said my dick was small and never got hard anymore, so what was the point of having it.

But I still resisted. I wanted to keep my cock. I felt like I wouldn't be a man anymore without it.

Q: So how did he get you to agree?

He didn't. He took it against my will.

Q: How did that happen?

We were having sex in the basement, and I was tied up and bent over this wooden bench as he fucked me. Then I heard the doorbell ring. Michael answered it, and he brought this guy into the room.

At first I couldn't see anything because of the way I was tied. But then I felt these hands lift me up and put me on my back. And I could see it was Michael's friend, the guy who took my nuts.

Q: How did you react?

I started screaming and crying, but the guy just gagged me. The two of them dragged me to the other side of the room where they tied me spread eagled on the floor.

Michael's friend snaked a catheter up my dick, and gave me a shot to numb my crotch. I was grateful for that, at least. I remember how bad it hurt to lose my balls.

Q: What was Michael doing at this time?

He was kneeling next to me talking quietly. He said I'd be happy that they were doing this. That it would make our relationship better. That kind of calmed me down. I thought, "Well, maybe it won't be so bad."

Q: How long did the penectomy take?

It took awhile. Some of the penis is inside the body, so he had to dig inside to get all of it. There was a lot of stitching up and stuff. He put my cock in the same jar with my balls. You can even see the Prince Albert sticking out of the head.

Then they made me a new pisshole. It's between my asshole and where my sack used to be. So now I have to squat to piss like a whiny little bitch. But that's fine since it suits my personality perfectly.

Q: What has life been like since you were nullified?

After I got over the surgery and my anger, things got better. When I healed up, I began to like my smooth look. Michael brought friends over and they all admired it, saying how pretty I looked. It made me feel good that Michael was proud of me.

Q: Do you have any sexual feeling anymore?

Yes, my prostate still responds when Michael fucks me or uses the buttplug. And my nipples are quite sensitive. If Michael plays with them while fucking me, I have a kind of orgasm. It's hard to describe, but it's definitely an orgasm.

Sometimes Michael says he's gonna have my prostate and nipples removed, but he's just kidding around. He's happy with what he's done to me.

Q: So are you glad Michael had you nullified?

Well, I wouldn't say I'm glad. If I could, I'd like to have my cock and balls back. But I know that I'm a nullo forever. So I'm making the best of it.

Michael and I are very happy. I know that he'll take care of me and we'll be together always. I guess losing my manhood was worth it to make that happen for us.

Well, I guess it's time to upgrade (4, Funny)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307819)

I'm still stuck with these ridiculous analog eyes and ears. Stupid forced upgrade path.

HDCP Contact Lenses - Mandatory (1)

StCredZero (169093) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308321)

Que the dystopian Sci-Fi short stories!

Actually, instead of making them mandatory by law, it would be more the "American Way" to make them a part of the normal way of life, much as happened with TV and automobiles. Are we free? Clearly not. Why is HD TV being foisted on us? At least half of us didn't want it. (I no longer get PBS reception. Analog signals degrade gracefully. Also, analog TV audio is a *very* useful low-power and robust information source in post disaster conditions. I know this first hand from hurricane Ike.)

Re:HDCP Contact Lenses - Mandatory (2, Informative)

EdZ (755139) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308623)

Why is HD TV being foisted on us?

HDTV and digital broadcasting are unrelated.

Very timely information... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28307827)

Umm, that ad for DoubleTwist was pulled down a week ago:

Seriously, Slashdot is becoming great lately for re-reading old news that I read on other tech sites days earlier.

Maybe You Should Read the Article (3, Informative)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307915)

Umm, that ad for DoubleTwist was pulled down a week ago:

Seriously, Slashdot is becoming great lately for re-reading old news that I read on other tech sites days earlier.

Yeah, I realize this but if you read the Wired article that I linked:

Johansen wanted the ad displayed Monday, the first day of the Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference in San Francisco. That's when the Cupertino, California-based company unveiled a host of new products and prices. But it was taken down, Johansen said, because he was told the ad did not allow enough light through the subway station window.

The entrepreneur said he submitted the same ad to Titan Worldwide with a white background instead of a black one. He said Titan rejected that one, too.

Finally, the ad with a transparent background was approved and displayed Wednesday afternoon, Johansen said. Pending another brouhaha, the ad will remain there for months, he said.

I may have been this-side-up blitzed last night when I submitted this and I may have no recollection of submitting it but that ad is still on display!

Funny how it is you who are the one that is out of date ... Sweet Spaghetti Monster my head hurts.

Re:Very timely information... (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307967)

Yeah, and if you RTFA you can see it was put back up on wednesday.


You mean Blu-ray, right? (0, Flamebait)

TPJ-Basin (763596) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307835)

Your journalism teacher just gave you 50% off your paper for misspelling a proper noun. It's 'Blu-ray', not 'Blu-Ray'. Carry on.

Re:You mean Blu-ray, right? (2, Funny)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307995)

Your journalism teacher just gave you 50% off your paper for misspelling a proper noun.

Good sir, implying I ever took a journalism course or received direction on the subject is libel and slander! Furthermore I hereby demand you retract such a statement or I shall receive satisfaction!

Should you imply I am a journalist again, I may go so far as to insult you with the label of 'lawyer!'

BluRay? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28307851)

Is that still around? Everywhere I see that carries any BR disks, the inventory is next to nothing now.

When are these companies going to give up with BR? The format just wasn't going to catch on since most people see plain DVD as "good enough". And, in fact, it is, for the most part. Sure, BR is "better" but when you're watching a movie, you're not going to be able to tell the difference unless you're watching closely, most of the time.

Also, they can take my SD CRT television when they pry it from my cold, dead hands. This forced upgrade to a technology with a terrible, inherent flaw (tearing and lagging from any significant motion, even with the best, most current technology) is unacceptable. When they wise up and replace LCD/plasma with viable technology, I'll be on board but until then, to hell with this cheaply done forced upgrade crap to appease people who like shiny new things.

Re:BluRay? (3, Informative)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308195)

"When they wise up and replace LCD/plasma with viable technology,"

The screen technology isn't the issue - its all the digital decoding that goes in inside the TV. The days of LCD screens having noticable lag are long gone though I'll admit they're still not as good as the best CRT. However , LED screens will be along in (hopefully) 5 or so years and it will leave LCD and plasma as a footnote in the techno history books as its way better than either picture wise plus it uses less power.

Re:BluRay? (1)

mr_mischief (456295) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308499)

Early models are already for sale. Samsung has been selling them for a while now [] . The price needs to come down to be a great alternative, but the power savings of having the pixels generate light rather than having a harsh backlight shining through the screen should help.

Re:BluRay? (4, Insightful)

FredFredrickson (1177871) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308285)

As somebody who crossed to the other side- I can agree.

I got a nice 50" plasma and decided it was time to upgrade to blu-ray to make sure I'm geting the most out of my set. So I went out and bought myself a nice Sony Blu-ray player and set out for an adventure. At first I was a little dissapointed, I needed a flash drive to get BD-LIVE to work, but none the less I was determined to get everything out of my $300 that I just plopped down. I plugged in my USB drive and started up BD-Live, only to find out it's literally just trailers for other movies. Why is this a feature? There are other "BD-Live" apps, which if I recall correctly, are written in Java. I always thought the idea of Java really opened up the doors for the platform, but it turns out nobody cares, nobody's trying for anything revolutionary. There's a program to Re-Edit a movie with your own notes and captions, and there's this trailer app. And you need the disc in to use them.

To keep this short, I'll say this, the BD-Live features seemed like something the studios should be paying me for. I really don't understand why a new venue for advertising to me is a feature I should be excited about.

Anyway, the picture quality itself was good, but rewind, fast foward and similar features responded so slowly, that they were useless. It felt like the remote just wasn't connecting- but if you pressed the button once and waited five minutes, it would eventually pause/rewind/fast foward.

I decided I didn't like it, and returned it for a samsung with netflix and pandora- oh what a mistake that was. The features were minimal. No animated menus, clunky browsing, impossibly slow, same issues as the last- but this one had tracking off on both digital and analog audio signals. I can't make my audio receiver make the audio faster- only delay. The TV, unfortunately, don't have any such feature for the delay. How annoying.

TLDR; Blu-Ray has been aroung long enough that it should be a stable technology. They're selling shit for big prices trying to convince people it's better, but it's worse than DVD (and dvds and players are cheap). There's no reason to upgrade. Even if the picture is nicer, I don't care.

P.S. I'm returning my last Blu-Ray and not buying a new one.

Re:BluRay? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308597)

50" Plasma? Most plasma TVs are only capable of 720p, so blu-ray would probably not look noticeably better on them than standard DVDs.

The first batch of blu-ray drives were very slow, yes. They are finally improving.

Re:BluRay? (3, Informative)

FredFredrickson (1177871) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308723)

Mine screen is 1080.

Don't forget, While Dvds will look ok at 720 vs 1080, Dvds themselves are 480, while bluray is 1080. Even on a 720, a bluray should be considerably better than a dvd.

Re:BluRay? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308629)

I've heard similar horror stories about other stand-alone BluRay players.

If you're interested in playing back BluRay content, get a Sony PlayStation 3. It's one of the very best players around, and since it has a full blown network enabled OS on it, it can get updates as easily as any other operating system.

I hate DRM, I love Linux, I've developed open source software. BluRay definitely has some problems. However, it is the single best quality format for consumer video playback to date. I have a Samsung 46" 1080p HDTV, and I can tell you that BluRay playback looks noticeably better than any DVD or satellite broadcast.

Re:BluRay? (4, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308371)

BluRay really does look better. A lot better than a DVD. However, most people aren't willing to pay extra to get that better experience. Just like everybody could spend $3000 on a computer to play all their games at ultra high resolutions with really high framerates. But they don't. Because whatever quality they get is good enough, and the extra money doesn't justify the cost. If they really wanted to make BluRay catch on, they would price the discs the same price as DVD. A new movie isn't worth an extra $10 just because the resolution better. I'd rather buy 3 DVDs than 2 BluRays.

Re:BluRay? (1)

mr_mischief (456295) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308567)

Another thing they could do is make recordable disks a hell of a lot cheaper. DVDs and players caught on really well around the time people could make and play a DVD home movie as cheaply and easily as a VHS one. $25 for a 25GB recordable disk is outrageous, even if you're willing to buy the recording drive for $150 or $200. Five 4.7GB DVDs cost less than a dollar, and hold a home movie, company training spot, or product info spot just fine.

Re:BluRay? (1)

Taibhsear (1286214) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308417)

This forced upgrade to a technology with a terrible, inherent flaw (tearing and lagging from any significant motion, even with the best, most current technology) is unacceptable. When they wise up and replace LCD/plasma with viable technology, I'll be on board but until then, to hell with this cheaply done forced upgrade crap to appease people who like shiny new things.

The issue isn't the tv technology, it's your nearby broadcasting station. I actually saw the exact opposite. I never could get a few channels (huge name ones at that, like ABC) in chicago on SD. Once we got our HDTV we got perfect crystal clear HD signal in 1080 on just an old shitty pair of bunny ears from the SDtv, including channels I never could get before, as well as ones I didn't even know existed. And that was in a basement apt. Once the stations go full power on the digital channels the tearing issue you complain about won't be an issue.

Re:BluRay? (1)

Mastadex (576985) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308447)

BlueRay might catch on in the Game Console or PC markets because it can store a TON of data. As for TV, I'm happy with my DVDs.

Re:BluRay? (1)

Talderas (1212466) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308637)

All PS3 disks are Blu-ray.

IIRC, Metal Gear Solid 4 is currently the largest game out there. It utilizes nearly the entire storage capacity of a dual-layer Blu-ray disk (50gb), and they had to cut out content to avoid needing two disks.

In other words PS3 game disk = x6 360 game disks.

Plus you could optimize how data is stored on the disk to decrease read times by replicating the data on the disk in multiple places.

Re:BluRay? (4, Insightful)

DrLang21 (900992) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308513)

My biggest problem with Blu-ray is that there's a huge entry cost and the return is little to none. Most of the movies in my collection were never filmed in high definition, so the quality improvements in switching to Blu-ray would be minimal. To get those minimal improvements, I need an HD TV, a Blu-ray player, and then I need to pay the exorbitant extra cost for Blu-ray media. I can understand why the entertainment industry doesn't understand this though. They still have not figured out that originality and quality of story are far more important than special effects and rehashed garbage if they want people to continue to legitimately purchase their product.

Re:BluRay? (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308699)

When are these companies going to give up with BR?

If I had to guess, I would say when it stops being profitable.

The time for BD to fail is ending. HDTV sets are becoming increasingly popular, and the price of both players and discs are dropping. Demand is only going to increase.

Blu-Ray is dead. Capitalism will find a way. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28307861)

It happened that a group of self-important millionaire Teabaggers went John Galt. Yet to their surprise, the world continued to spin. The self proclaimed "geese that lay the golden eggs" gave up their source of golden eggs for naught, learning afterwords they were not the golden geese.

I long for the days when we too can enjoy a life without the stress of the ultra-competitive society that is literally tearing apart families and destroying our future through low birth rates. "The best living standard on earth" my ass.

Not-so-awesome encryption (5, Informative)

tjonnyc999 (1423763) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307869)

HDMI already has the awesome encryption of HDCP between the device and the display unit

As usual, an encryption system that (likely) cost millions to develop, can be defeated with a simple device. []

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with this company in any way; this is not an endorsement, only a link to a potentially useful resource.

Re:Not-so-awesome encryption (2, Informative)

rsmith-mac (639075) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308073)

For varying levels of "defeated" at least. That's just an HDMI to VGA converter, apparently one that has a valid HDCP handshake, but none the less one that's ultimately only useful for taking advantage of the analog hole. A HDMI->HDMI/DVI HDCP stripper would be far more useful, and much more impressive. Who even has a RGB input on their TV these days?

Re:Not-so-awesome encryption (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308303)

Who even has a RGB input on their TV these days?

Pretty much every HDTV at Walmart* has both RGB and HDMI inputs. Yes, they have HDMI, but they also have RGB. If you mean "RGB and no HDMI", that might include people who use a PC monitor to watch TV, who used to use a TV tuner card in the days of analog TV.

Re:Not-so-awesome encryption (3, Informative)

Big Boss (7354) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308369)

Um, anyone with an HDTV has an RGB input. They call it component video, and it's been available on every HDTV ever shipped, and some newer SDTVs. HDMI and DVI are quite new in comparison. The HDFury claims to be able to take HDMI/HDCP and output component 1080p. That's a damn handy device when paired with older non-HDCP displays and things like the HD-PVR that can record component and output h264 digital streams.

Irritating as hell that one would have to spend a couple hundred on something like that when we have perfectly capable component video inputs and outputs though.

Re:Not-so-awesome encryption (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308583)

Who even has a RGB input on their TV these days?

Anyone who has a TV with a SCART socket?

Re:Not-so-awesome encryption (1)

greyblack (1148533) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308217)

Think I will just buy a shitload of these and store them away until 2013 arrives and friends, friends' parents and friends of friends' parents starts calling for help.

Re:Not-so-awesome encryption (4, Informative)

AcidPenguin9873 (911493) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308253)

The HDCP authorities can revoke that device's HDCP key for violating whatever clause in the HDCP license agreement (not allowing analog holes, for example). Then any new Blu-Ray discs will have that device's key on a revocation list, and those discs won't play back with it. I don't think any HDCP keys have been revoked yet, and who knows if any ever will be, but the mechanism is in place to disable devices like this from being used on future media.

Re:Not-so-awesome encryption (1)

Chaos Incarnate (772793) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308361)

There have been some key revocations for software players, but I'm not aware of any for hardware ones.

Re:Not-so-awesome encryption (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308283)

The idea that they can close the analogue hole is itself ludicrous. How do they intend to get the image to my eye balls, by beaning it directly into my brain?

Presumably they know that their efforts will be futile, and their goal is to make it harder for people. Problem is, it only takes one person to rip a disc and torrent it, and everyone can get it.

All they will do is put off people who would otherwise buy their products. I really wanted to play GTA IV but ended up giving it a miss because of the really nasty DRM. I will not buy any Blu Ray discs until you can get region free players and rip/back them up effortlessly.

Re:Not-so-awesome encryption (1)

DrLang21 (900992) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308585)

How do they intend to get the image to my eye balls, by beaning it directly into my brain?

Rest at east knowing their engineers and scientists are working on this very problem.

Re:Not-so-awesome encryption (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308717)

You can tell it's a good product too because of how many exclamation marks they use in their marketing material.

DVD Jon is a brave man (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307887)

I took a lot of guts to crack DVD encryption, but it takes even MORE guts to take on Apple. Those guys will sue someone who even looks at them funny.

No coincidence that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28307891)

2013 is about when most jurisdictions will have switched off analogue TV. By the time the unwashed masses realise that something is wrong, it will be too late to object or choose to use an alternative.

Hooray for Slashdot editors...again (1)

XcepticZP (1331217) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307921)

It's spelled heel, not heal... How much bloody effort does it take to spell and grammar check one single paragraph?!

Re:Hooray for Slashdot editors...again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308045)

No fucking kidding. I'm so sick of seeing posts written by people who just sort of type what they hear without actually knowing what the words are.

Not true... (2, Insightful)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307925)

... This will only annoy people who *buy* their crap. Problem solved!

Plugging the analog hole (1)

Narnie (1349029) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307961)

I expect the next 188-page PDF will feature a device that will plug directly into your forehead to inject a digital signal to your brain.

NEWS FLASH: Until we start augmenting ourselves with electronics, people perceive the environment around them in ANALOG ONLY! To me that sound like a pretty big hole to plug.

Re:Plugging the analog hole (1)

Tanktalus (794810) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308545)

Doesn't quantum physics say that nothing is analog, and it's all discrete?


Sound Familiar (4, Insightful)

segedunum (883035) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307971)

Presumably, this it the 'analogue hole' that they have talked about 'fixing' for a number of years now with a number of DRM companies coming out of the woodwork to say they can do it, ripping off some money and then disappearing with their directors retiring to some island somewhere with naked women?

Any techology that relies on a device sold and physically owned by a consumer denying access to said consumer is doomed to failure. Rinse and repeat.

It's one of the reasons, but certanly not the main one, why I am totally non-plussed by so-called 'High Definition' and BluRay. I did try setting up a theatre system once for someone with a receiver box relaying video through HDMI to a TV. HDCP refused to play ball because the BluRay player didn't like the arrangement. Hmmmmm. Not only do I get to not watch something because of a DRM system, I also have to buy completely new content that is currently a lot more expensive. Bound to be a success.

Re:Sound Familiar (4, Insightful)

segedunum (883035) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308089)

On another related note, I was going to say that if BluRay and AACS do end up getting reliably cracked and 'free' copies of films can be made then the bizarre twisted thing is that it might just end up making BluRay ubiquitously popular and give it the critical mass it needs to pull DVD back.

Where have you been, Rip Van Winkle? (1)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308579)

On another related note, I was going to say that if BluRay and AACS do end up getting reliably cracked and 'free' copies of films can be made then the bizarre twisted thing is that it might just end up making BluRay ubiquitously popular and give it the critical mass it needs to pull DVD back.

"End up getting reliably cracked"? "Free copies"?

I guess you don't keep up, so let me break the news to you. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT (in caps and bold face so you don't miss it) of BluRay discs can be cracked and copied. Every single one of them. It's been true for more than 1 year now, maybe even a year and a half. The final BluRay encryption standard, BD+, which was said (I think) to be able to last "forever" lasted a couple of months before it was cracked.

If you troll Bit Torrent or Usenet sites, you can find complete rips or at worst smaller conversions (down to DVD dual layer size) of any popular BluRay disc available.

DRM Protection on Disks (1, Interesting)

myspace-cn (1094627) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307991)

Doesn't it just make the poor little arm that goes back and forth break faster? I mean seriously.

I just bought William Shakespeare's Hamlet awhile back, the 2 DVD set.. []

Disk 1 played one time, then froze in the middle, (with lots of noise at the beginning/load) it started chirping, clicking and clacking and got all nicked up.
Disk 2 played perfect.

I never even got to SEE the thing.
I took it back got another.

This time, I took it to a local gamestop to have them buff the nic's out.

DRM is crap!

Re:DRM Protection on Disks (1)

characterZer0 (138196) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308105)

Your DVD player is nicking up your DVDs? How is that the DRM's fault?

Re:DRM Protection on Disks (1)

myspace-cn (1094627) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308145)

Due to the fact, it was brand new, and it plays every other disk just fine.

Re:DRM Protection on Disks (2, Informative)

myspace-cn (1094627) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308381)

DVD player brand new.
DVD disk set brand new.
DVD disk set #1 returned with nic's.
DVD disk set #2 couldn't be returned cause I waited too long.

Error with nicking only happens on DVD disk #1.

You could watch a beer box full of stargate, atlantis, pirates of the caribean, deadwood v1,2,3, Miami Vice many volumes, 300, Highlander, basically about 4 boxes of shit work just fine, then put that disk #1 from Hamlet in and click click click, nick nick nick. On load...

And you blame this on a brand new DVD player?

It's not the hardware, It's the software on DISK #1 Hamlet. (Which cost over $20 at the time)
I know the difference between a hardware and a software problem.

It's the disk, not the hardware.

AACS?? (0)

EddydaSquige (552178) | more than 5 years ago | (#28307997)

American Association of Cosmetology Schools?

Blu-Ray vs. Online Content (4, Interesting)

javacowboy (222023) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308035)

The content industry has not made a compelling case for me to ditch my DVD collection. My upscaling DVD player makes most of my DVDs look great on my HDTV. Why should I subject myself to DRM and an incomplete spec by upgrading?

What's more, if Apple succeeds in making HD downloads seamless and reasonably fast with their new compression technologies (and/or internet bandwidth improves significantly in North America), then it's game over for Blu-Ray. Why should I invest in Blu-Ray and bother driving to a brick-and-mortar store when I might not have to?

Apple left out Blu-Ray from Macs for a reason.

Re:Blu-Ray vs. Online Content (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308313)

Why would you "ditch your DVD collection"? You realize blu-ray players work just fine as upscaling DVD players, right? This notion that you either do not have a blu-ray player or you do and therefore must throw out your existing collection of movies is common on slashdot, and absurdly stupid. This isn't VHS->DVD, there is perfect backwards compatibility here. If you aren't interested in blu-ray, that's your prerogative. But this and the other common slashdot reason for not adopting (DRM; you know, just like how DVDs have DRM...) are ludicrous.

Additionally; Apple? Seriously? The company that says it is illegal for me to install their operating system on my computer because it's not the right brand is the champion of openness? Allow me to let you in on a secret. Apple doesn't sell computers with blu-ray drives because they want you to buy your high definition video content on iTunes rather than from the local video store, plain and simple.

Re:Blu-Ray vs. Online Content (2, Informative)

Chaos Incarnate (772793) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308423)

Blu-ray has a 2-3 year head start on marketplace penetration, and Apple hasn't even managed to match the most basic of features (video resolution & # of sound channels), much less matching video/sound quality or allowing any bonus features. Overtaking Blu-ray with downloads at this point will require divine intervention.

Re:Blu-Ray vs. Online Content (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308709)

> Overtaking Blu-ray with downloads at this point will require divine intervention.

You're on crack.

Apple has the most successful online media outlet on the planet.

They are one of the biggest Music retailers period.

They've already got a built in distribution channel and there are plenty of
consumers that haven't bought into Bluray at all yet. Many aren't even aware
of the whole "high definition" thing. There's still plenty of time for Apple
to steal Sony's thunder here.

Walmart or Amazon could do it too.

However, Apple already has it's little "reservation" built up already.

Re:Blu-Ray vs. Online Content (2, Informative)

Weeksauce (1410753) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308641)

Seriously, why are you assuming that it has to be Apple of all companies to make digitial HD a reality? In case you haven't noticed, Netflix and Amazon have been offering very solid HD solutions on a plethora of players that hook directly to your tv. Apple TV has been nothing short of an epic failure! I'm assuming, due to your sig, that being a Mac fanboy has blinded you from any alternative.

Ignore them? (4, Insightful)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308079)

> "I'm certain there are others who might have some free time to look at Blu-Ray and the
> 'uncrackable' AACS."

On the other hand, one could simply ignore BlueRay altogether. Believe it or not, you almost certainly can live without it.

Ignore movies altogether? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308357)

On the other hand, one could simply ignore BlueRay altogether. Believe it or not, you almost certainly can live without it.

Yes, it is possible to live without watching new movies once DVD goes the way of VHS, but I would imagine that most Slashdot users would not want to go that far.

Re:Ignore them? (4, Interesting)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308399)

I suspect that we will see the same thing with video that we did with music.

The normal consumer when presented with the choice between "quality" and "convenience"
will choose convenience. The ability to have the bulk of your DVD collection in the
palm of you hand where ever you go will probably be considered more desirable than
image quality on a large screen that you many not have or may not percieve or may
not care about.

Give a kid the complete Ben 10 in the palm of his hand and he
won't even realize that there is a much bigger TV in the room.

If they do this, I will have no choice... (2, Interesting)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308093)

..but to rip them a new a-hole.

Seriously, how do you stop the analog hole? Stop the laws of physics? The Human sensory organs are analog. At some point, you are going to have an analog signal traversing the gap from the output device to the human.

Just wait... (3, Insightful)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308109)

And even the MPAA itself recommends using a camcorder pointed at a TV as a way to make fair use copies, creating another analog hole.

Just wait for MPAA to get a wind of watermarking and demand camcorder makers to embed watermark recognition to disable video capture of the oh-so-precious intellectual property of theirs.

Hmmm... (1)

copponex (13876) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308159)

If any of their lawyers are listening, I have a very novel way of plugging their "analog" holes. Contact me for details and to set up a consultation.

I'm gonna tell them to... (3, Funny)

SteveHeadroom (13143) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308189)

Kiss my analog hole.

Ther's no TV in Star Trek (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308215)

Now I know why TV died in the era of Star Trek. People just got tired of all the DRM.

On the up side, they did invent warp drive and transporters...

So, maybe DRM isn't all bad.

opting out (4, Insightful)

viridari (1138635) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308229)

I don't own a Blu Ray player. I briefly owned an HDTV but went back to the old analog TV. Sorry, but I'm opting out. The digital entertainment revolution today isn't selling anything that I'm buying. If that means I miss out on things, so be it.

When it was easy to back up a DVD, I legitimately purchased over 600 movies. As the copy protections became increasingly difficult to work around, I simply stopped buying. Hollywood stopped getting my money. I took all that money that I was spending on DVD's and bought a motorcycle instead. Now instead of sitting on the couch wasting 90-120 minutes of my life at a time, I'm spending that time enjoying getting around (rain or shine) like never before.

It's been a year since I ditched the HDTV and maybe 2 years since I stopped buying DVD's. I don't miss it.

Don't like the terms they are giving you? OPT OUT!

Re:opting out (1)

stox (131684) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308379)

Let us all know how well that analog TV is working after today.
( For those who have been in a coma, today is finally the cutover day to DTV )

Re:opting out (1)

cdfh (1323079) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308635)

Now instead of sitting on the couch wasting 90-120 minutes of my life at a time, I'm spending that time enjoying getting around

Or to reverse that argument:

Now, instead of sitting on my bike, wasting days of my life travelling, I'm spending my time enjoying films in 90-120 minute blocks!


Disclaimer: I've just come back from a long weekend touring with my bike

"Good enough" pirate. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308259)

"But Blu-Ray still has the Achilles heel of analog players that allow someone to merely re-encode the analog signal back to an unencrypted digital format. "

OK so if analog is "good enough", then what's the point of having digital?

Re:"Good enough" pirate. (1)

Big Boss (7354) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308433)

It's easier to encrypt digital signals?

Re:"Good enough" pirate. (2, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308489)

It lets you easily copy things.

You can make 10 copies with one click of the mouse.

You can back up your stuff multiple times and even have an offsite backup.

You don't have to buy the next format that the industry tries to shove at
you. You can just setup your own PC based player to play back whatever you
happen to have.

Admittedly, these are "consumer" benefits and don't really do the media moguls any good.

I never have to buy "Escape" ever again regardless of what new formats the industry comes up with.

Re:"Good enough" pirate. (1)

mr_mischief (456295) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308719)

The main problems with analog technology are related to degradation over distance, degradation under interference, and degradation of the media over time. Doing a high-quality decode to a high-resolution analog signal and then immediately encoding that back to digital can lose very little quality. It's often so little, in fact, that you won't notice. Then your source and interface are digital again and once again more resistant to degradation.

HDMI connections have many problems (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308281)

Depending on the set up HDMI causes a lot of problems because of how devices perceive each other and communicate. It also seems to fail a lot. For example, AT&T installers actively avoid the connection on their DVR devices because when TVs go into power saving mode it shuts them down down. Some times when you are using multiple devices one of which is analog and turn on a HDMI device it switch to it whether you want to or not. It is also hard to switch between them because of the lag in renegotiating the connection.

Basically HDMI sucks at what it was supposed to do HDCP or not.


Anything over "there" that I need? (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308341)

Does anyone anticipate the average person actually needing these technologies in the near future? As opposed to just wanting it to watch something movie.

will blu ray succeed? (5, Insightful)

fermion (181285) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308407)

I certainly wonder if Blu Ray is going to replace the DVD. The DVD certainly took long enough to replace the VHS, even though the VHS has disadvantages. Though the VHS was infinitely more user friendly, put it in, watch a movie, no 5th grade animation, no unskippable adverts, things like audio commentary made the DVD a compelling alternative. Combine this with the fact that the DVD was simpler to copy than the copy protected VHS that were popular at the time, and it was a reasonable choice.

But the DVD did not have netflix streaming. The DVD did not have online instant download purchase and rental. The DVD did not have the legacy of broken promised that the DVD delivered. Who believes that producers are going to invest in fully utilizing the Blu Ray features.

It seems to me that given the increases in bandwidth and processing power, in five years the movie industry will be at the place that music industry was a few years ago. Desperately trying to protect content, adding increasing layers of copy protection to the media, and losing sales because they made the purchase product so much less attractive than the alternatively acquired product. The reality is that the DVD is easy to crack, but sales are still very strong. Back in the VHS days, the copy protection did little to stop the coping of tapes.

If the copy protection is done right it will be transparent. More than likely no one will care. But I suspect that the copy protection will add costs to the products, which will make them less attractive. I suspect we will see DVDs for a long time, and when they are gone, people will just download the content. I can't imagine that Blu Ray will ever be a major player in the average household. It will be like plasma tv. An interesting plaything for people who can afford it.

More reason to pirate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308599)

It's about time these agencies grew up and realised they've missed the gravy train, they can either shut the fuck up about it now and move on or they can cry till they drown themselves in their own tears.

Instead of wasting all this money on useless measures to prevent casual copying (which lets face it, they're just trying to fleece their customers for every view) why not offer something your customers would actually use and find beneficial.

Try this for an idea: Offer your films for download at a reasonable price, as it stands in the UK, a DVD can cost around £20, not looked at blu-ray and won't do whilst this shit is ongoing. Now in the UK the minimum wage is around £5 per hour, are you that much out of touch with reality that you can't see the incentive to pirate here?
Think about it, who is going to spend 4 hours working to then fork out on a film that could turn out to be complete rubbish, or even if it is good, is it really worth working half a day just for an hour or two of entertainment? And while we're here, cut that fucking shit out with making me watch adverts, it's my purchase, I own it, I can do with it what I want, of that includes not watching your shitty adverts then that's what I'll do. If you have a big sticker on the box stating Price £0 - ad supported and you then update the ads to keep them relevant then yes of course I'll sit down and watch your ad sponsored film, hell I might even buy something if I like it and state where I saw it advertised.
Instead of fleecing your customers like you do now, offer the films as a download, for £5 permanent - of course offer the DVD's for a more reasonable price for those who like the pretty boxes etc. If you did this I'd not even bother looking for alternate sources (provided you keep the crap out like the forced ads), I'd just jump onto your website and select the film of choice and presto, few hours later I'll watch it, if it's crap no biggie.

It must be quite embarrassing that you still can't manage to work things for the better and make more money. As it stands I won't buy anything from you - however since it's legal where I now live (it's even used as a metric to how fast you can get internet here - 1 film in 24 minutes) I'll download till my heart is content.

And if you think things are bad now, just wait till the next generation are working, you'll have 0 chance of persuading them to buy your wares - they're too used to having it when they want it, how they want it.

Basically just grow up, get some balls, grab the chance before the last train really does leave and stop trying to buy your fucking way by having laws passed preventing me from doing what I want with my purchases.

Oh and by the way - just because you did some work one day a long time ago, that doesn't mean you're entitled to compensation every time someone looks at it, wish it worked that way, I'd have retired a long time ago from all the page hits I've had!


werfu (1487909) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308655)

"And even the MPAA itself recommends using a camcorder pointed at a TV as a way to make fair use copies, creating another analog hole." WHAAAAAATTTTT? We're supposed to take this mean to do backups? Shit, aren't they just the same people who try to spread HD? Screens suck hard and they will always do. Fuck you MPAA. I'll continue to rip movies as long as I'll live or as long you won't let people what they want with the stuff they bougth. (Feels better now)


werfu (1487909) | more than 5 years ago | (#28308677)

I meant screeners.... We're the edit????

This just in (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28308685)

"DRM group intends to require memory-wiping technology in Blu-ray players by 2020 to prevent copyright infringement by viewers who store illegal mental copies of films and talk about the film with their friends"
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