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The Fall and Rise of Motion Control For Games

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the wave-your-hands-in-the-air-like-you-just-don't-care dept.

Input Devices 131

Eurogamer has a story about how the design of motion-control input devices has evolved over the years, ranging from the Nintendo Power Glove and Sega Activator up to modern devices like the Wii Remote and the upcoming projects by Sony and Microsoft. Now that the technology has caught up with the ideas, EA CEO John Riccitello said he expects motion-control gaming to rapidly expand, eventually occupying half the total games market. He said, "We almost invested to create a platform extension like that for some of the games we're working on. We're very pleased, frankly, that it showed up at Microsoft, because I'd rather them pay for that. They can leverage it better, and we can build software. But I felt the market wanted that technology and I'm glad it's coming."

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I remember the power glove (1)

the_humeister (922869) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327351)

not being all that useful. I'm sure glad the Wii controller is so much better.

Re:I remember the power glove (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28327419)

Have you used a Wii controller? It sucks hard.

Re:I remember the power glove (2, Funny)

sonicmerlin (1505111) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327489)

Not with the Wii Motion+ (my god that name is unwieldy and embarrassing)

Re:I remember the power glove (3, Insightful)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327539)

Wii Motion+ seems to me like the kind of feature that the Wiimote should have shipped with in the first place. You shouldn't have to replace core functionality with better hardware halfway through your product's lifecycle.

Re:I remember the power glove (3, Insightful)

beckerist (985855) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327557)

Why not? If it wasn't ready then it's not like the original product didn't work. You choose if you want to upgrade by spending the money or not. I don't see why people don't PREFER options, vs. abhorring them.

Re:I remember the power glove (4, Insightful)

Dutch Gun (899105) | more than 5 years ago | (#28328511)

It's not that people abhor options, but you do have to look pragmatically at both the pros and cons of add-on peripherals in the console marketplace.

From a simple numbers perspective, it means you've split your consumer-base. An add-on peripheral is never going to be as widely supported as original hardware. It also means that developers will be much less likely to *design* an entire game around the functionality of that new add-on, because they also have to think about how to make the game functional and fun for original Wii hardware.

Unless it comes with EVERY Wii, new hardware simply won't be taken advantage of to same degree, and with the substantial improvements of Wii Motion plus, it just seems a shame it wasn't working like that to begin with.

Re:I remember the power glove (2, Insightful)

dakameleon (1126377) | more than 5 years ago | (#28329839)

Intelligent developers would have a two-mode support - if you've got it, use it, but if you don't, fall back to the old method. It worked for Sony with the original PSX/PS1 controllers and their Dual-shock replacements with analogue sticks + rumble - by the end of the PS1's life, most games had support for analogue sticks, with fall-back to the d-pad (less ideal) for those who still had the original controllers. Helped that the dual-shock was bundled with the console shortly after its introduction too, though.

Re:I remember the power glove (1)

Dutch Gun (899105) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330025)

Having to design for input peripherals with two different levels of capability would discourage incorporating a core game mechanics designed entirely around the new device without severely degrading the experience. They risk watering down what they *could* do with the new device, as well as the risk of people without the new peripheral passing on the game for fear they won't get the best possible play experience.

Let's give a simple example: When the Wii and it's controller were announced, people immediately thought a Star Wars game in which you could wield and swing a lightsaber directly would be the killer game for the Wii. As it turns out, it wasn't very practical to do that with the standard Wii hardware. With Wii Motion plus, you actually *could*. Here's the kicker - the entire game would likely be based around the premise that you could swing a lightsaber and the game would track it with 1:1 accuracy. How exactly would you gracefully fall back to using standard Wii hardware? Would it be anywhere near the same experience?

There's a reason many games using peripherals come bundled with them (or are first-party). That way, they can design the game around the use of that peripheral knowing the customer will always experience the full benefit of that device.

Re:I remember the power glove (1)

beckerist (985855) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330663)

It doesn't change core gameplay. Did you buy the expansion pack for the N64? I did, because I wanted to play with bots, but my cousin never did because he only played when we came over (and therefore didn't need them.) The game wasn't changed, it was merely an option.

The WM+ doesn't change how the game is played, it merely allows for greater precision. Some hardcore gamers care about this. Your local 6 year old relative will still bowl a turkey before you!

Re:I remember the power glove (1)

beckerist (985855) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330681)

Trivia (because I forgot to include it:) What N64 game am I talking about?

Re:I remember the power glove (1)

grepistan (758811) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330785)

That would be perfect dark I believe. So many hours wasted when I should have been studying :)

Re:I remember the power glove (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28332029)

Yeppers! Though it was also required for Majoras Mask and the DK Worlds (or something...) game.br--beckerist

Re:I remember the power glove (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28330865)

Yes, but then you also have games like Ape Escape, which was spectacular but never really got the market penetration it deserved because it ran ONLY on the analog controllers.

Re:I remember the power glove (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28331757)

An add-on peripheral is never going to be as widely supported as original hardware. It also means that developers will be much less likely to *design* an entire game around the functionality of that new add-on

kinda like... ohh.. I dunno... Guitar hero, Rock band, and the upcoming DJ hero? Those peripherals seemed to do ok. Just sayin...

Re:I remember the power glove (4, Insightful)

PaintyThePirate (682047) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327745)

Cheap MEMS gyroscopes didn't exist in 2006. They did as good as they could have for a consumer product at the time.

It isn't an ideal situation, but it's better for Nintendo than letting Natal and the Sony wand completely obsolete the Wii hardware.

Re:I remember the power glove (0)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327777)

The new Xbox and Sony control gimmicks are just that, gimmicks.

The games that really shine with the Wii remote are multiplayer games, which doesn't work well with a camera.

The Wii remote *as is*, is far more accurate than any of these camera based alternatives.

Re:I remember the power glove (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28330013)

I've had the opportunity to play with Microsoft's Natal, and in short, no. There's no way the Wii remote even comes near. Wii Motion+ is more like it, but only the controller is tracked, as opposed to full body. I've seen Natal support 2 players. I'm not clear at all about Sony's technology, but with their tracking peripheral, there's absolutely no reason it wouldn't support multiplayer. At this point, both technologies are, IMHO, superior to Nintendo's. Only thing that remains is to see if they can do something with them at this point in the consoles lifecycle.

Re:I remember the power glove (1)

StreetStealth (980200) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327877)

It's strange. Normally this kind of thing is avoided entirely by console makers in that it's not simply a nominally enhanced experience that isn't integral to the gameplay (see classic rumble packs), but rather it splits the functional requirements of the userbase entirely in two.

It's really going to hinder the studio adoption of the tech, leading to either outright avoidance of it or including optional support in a way that isn't really integral to the game, making it a useless upgrade anyway.

I'd wager right here that the only games to make any real use of MotionPlus will be first-party.

Re:I remember the power glove (2, Informative)

CecilPL (1258010) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327921)

Except maybe the two games out right now that are bundled with it, Tiger 2010 and Grand Slam Tennis?

Re:I remember the power glove (1)

sonicmerlin (1505111) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330149)

Uh...Red Steel 2? Prepare to drop your jaw to the floor when you watch the trailer.

Re:I remember the power glove (1)

rbarreira (836272) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330301)

The Wii Balance board is well supported by developers, and Wii MotionPlus already has more announced games from 3rd party developers than from Nintendo.

The Wii has changed a lot of things in the gaming industry. The mantra that peripherals always fail is no longer true.

Re:I remember the power glove (2, Interesting)

bertoelcon (1557907) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327515)

The Wii controller is alot more useful than its given credit for, its a bluetooth HID and actually works really well on a computer, with a driver for it of course. I seen them used to control everything from WoW to a presentation.

Re:I remember the power glove (3, Funny)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327751)

What?

I love the powerglove. It's so... bad.

Re:I remember the power glove (1)

aaptel (1574041) | more than 5 years ago | (#28328585)

Indeed, the powerglove did suck [screwattack.com] .

Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (4, Interesting)

WiiVault (1039946) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327379)

I find it odd to hear EA talking about how motion controls will "someday" make up 50% of console gaming. Meanwhile the Wii has about 50% marketshare already according to stats put out by the big 3. Seems to me we are already at about 50%.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (4, Interesting)

seeksoft (579626) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327401)

Yeah, but what you must realize... all the consoles pushed.. maybe 20% still play the wii. Mine's been collecting dust as my brothers and my best friends wifes. She bought wii fit, played it for like 2 weeks then that fad wore off. I play my 360 4-5 times a week.. My wii gets used when someone comes over, and even then the fad has kind of worn off.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (5, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327469)

My wii gets used when someone comes over, and even then the fad has kind of worn off.

You know, that happens as people get older. Nothing to be ashamed of. Get some Viagra if it bothers you.

You are the world? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28328013)

You must realize that you are just taking numbers out of your ass.
Hey, its ok, Ive heard turds like Don Reisinger and Belmont (who works for PS3) say that the Wii isnt doing well about 18 months ago because 'the girlfriend' doesnt play it'.
That's really scientific research.

In our family, everyone uses the Wii.
And my wife actually has gotten off her ass and used the damn thing... maybe you should find a less lazy wife?

Most of the people that we know have Wii for one or two reasons:

1.Everyone in the family can play, even the non-gamer. (When granparents come over they always play taht Spielberg Jenga clone with the kids and the other grandad is thrileld that were buyin the new golf game)

2.Nintendo has the most non-killing games of any other console.

You may not like Big Brain, Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy, Blox, Tennis, PingPong and others but some people also dont want every game to be realistic games about killing.
Its a question of taste. I have some friends who think their youngs ones should play Smash Brothers brawl
while our toddler loves watching his olderst brothers play Diddy Kong and that big fat pink round ball character.
2 year olds love Mario as much as the 7 and 10 year olds..

Its like being gay and saying that you wouldnt bang Jessica Alba.
Yeah probably not buddy, but there is also many more who will.

I dont mean to say that my view is more correct but out of the dozen or more friends that have Wii, none have abandoned it so personal experience can not be extrapolated.
Oh yeah, all those people we know that have a Wii, all have kids under 12.

Coincidence?
I think not.

Re:You are the world? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28330843)

Angry troll is angry!

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (1)

V50 (248015) | more than 5 years ago | (#28328797)

Yeah, and while having all three consoles (and many games for all), I play my Wii the most, both for Virtual Console, Gamecube and native Wii games. I love all my systems (ye gods, I sound like a parent with kids), but I play with my Wii the most. I usually spend some time playing with my Wii before I go to bed, as it's more relaxing and helps me fall asleep. My PS3 and 360 get more use when a big game comes out, but I find myself coming back to my Wii after some time passes.

Your anecdote doesn't equal data, and neither does mine. Though, most of the sales data I see put Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, Brawl and Galaxy still among the top sellers, with Wii Fit usually in the top 5 and MK Wii in the top 10. If they aren't played, they sure sell well though.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28330175)

I usually spend some time playing with my Wii before I go to bed, as it's more relaxing and helps me fall asleep.

Yeah I find that too.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (1)

sonicmerlin (1505111) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330229)

"I usually spend some time playing with my Wii before I go to bed, as it's more relaxing and helps me fall asleep." Sigh... CURSE YOU NINTENDO!

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (1)

Repossessed (1117929) | more than 5 years ago | (#28331633)

Thats thanks to the game developers, not the Wii controls though.

I would absolutely love to have almost any game I own on 360 for the wii instead, even with the weaker graphics, simply because point and shoot is so much nicer than trying to aim with a joystick. But aside from a few remakes (RE 4 on the wii is an incredible thing btw) all the Wii really gets is Nintendo games and crap.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (1)

pimpimpim (811140) | more than 5 years ago | (#28332743)

She bought wii fit, played it for like 2 weeks then that fad wore off.
I think she misunderstood the purpose of wii fit. You're suppose to get rid of the fat

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (4, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327405)

1. You ignore the PC, phone and handheld segments

2. Whilst the Wii has sold well I'd be surprised (but I guess not too surprised) if it made up 50% of the living room console market when games are taken into account.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28329381)

No, the iPhone and PC have motion controls, other cell phones have motion controls as well.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330261)

And how many PC games use motion control?

Unless you mean the mouse? Which I don't think counts...

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (2, Informative)

rob1980 (941751) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327485)

Nexgenwars.com has the Wii at 50% of this generation of consoles - emphasis on this generation. The PS2 still has a pretty wide install base and is slated to continue receiving games through next year. The Wii doesn't have 50% market share.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (1)

Falkentyne (760418) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327555)

Take a look at: http://www.vgchartz.com/ [vgchartz.com]

It gives you a rough idea of where the Wii is in comparison to current gen game system consoles. While living room consoles give it a 50% market share on this site, adding the handheld market brings that down quite a bit. As it only lists current gen, it doesn't show the PS2 which is still selling quite well.

On the other hand - Microsoft is coming out with the Natal motion system and I wouldn't be surprised if the PS3 had something in the works too (does it??).

And like somebody else said - you're forgetting the PC gaming market as well. Not a lot of motion controlled gaming in that area.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327681)

On the other hand - Microsoft is coming out with the Natal motion system and I wouldn't be surprised if the PS3 had something in the works too (does it??).

It does [youtube.com] .

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (4, Insightful)

theaceoffire (1053556) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327589)

Yet most Wii games don't really use motion controls at all... They either ignore it, or convert "Waggle" to a button press.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (1)

xouumalperxe (815707) | more than 5 years ago | (#28328367)

I've said it before, I'll say it again: The good Wii games don't use the motion controller unless it's the primary control system. They use the infrared pointer, and cry a tear of joy about having a gamepad and a mouse at the same time.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (1)

Rayonic (462789) | more than 5 years ago | (#28329973)

Yet most Wii games don't really use motion controls at all... They either ignore it, or convert "Waggle" to a button press.

Punch-Out for the Wii supports both motion and button+pad controls. But to be actually successful at the game, you can't use the motion controls. They're just not responsive enough.

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (1)

RalphBNumbers (655475) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327663)

Don't forget the mobile market.
According to NPD, in April mobile sales were:
1,040,000 DSes and DSis
116,000 PSPs

iPhones/iTouches weren't in that report, but going by the quarterly numbers apple releases, they sold 3,793,000 iPhones in the Quarter ending March 28. And they mentioned earlier that there were 18Million iPhones out of 30Million iPhones/iTouches, so holding that ratio constant, they sold about 6,321,667 iPhones/iTouches over a 3 month period, or 2,107,222 devices per month.

Of course, the iPhone is a lot newer, and all the DSes and PSPs that have been sold still outnumber iPhones/iTouches by about 5 to 1, so it'll probably take a few years for Apple to catch up to their install base even with almost double their combined sales rate.

Still, I think it's kind of strange that Nintendo and Sony left accelerometers out of the DSi and PSP Go respectively... don't you?

Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (0)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327917)

Indeed, talk about sucking up to Microsoft.

Nintendo took a huge risk and gamble with the Wii and such gambles are often prone to failure. It was a brave move given Nintendo had been the 3rd place console for a while.

Typical Microsoft to big up the idea they borrowed. Just like they can't stop talking about multitouch being the future and yet as of yet has no commercially available product with it.

Motion control doesn't work (5, Funny)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327453)

I'm sure it's great for party games and other casual things, but I can't imagine playing a first person shooter, or, God forbid a fighter. Can you imagine the conversations you'd overhear?

1st man : What's wrong with you?
2nd man : I'm knackered, I was playing Gears of War for an hour last night, I had to rearrange my living room to make adequate room for the cover spots.
1st man : Yeah, chainsawing is a bitch too
2nd man : Hey, where's Billy?
1st man : Didn't you hear? He was playing Street Fighter 4, did a screw pile driver and broke his Coccyx.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (1)

Faylone (880739) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327491)

Metroid Prime 3 says it can be done just fine.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28327531)

Every other fps game ever made says it can be done better

Re:Motion control doesn't work (1, Troll)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327543)

Metroid Prime 3 says it can be done just fine.

Metroid Prime 3 says it can be done just fine for very casual players.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (2, Insightful)

StreetStealth (980200) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327749)

Metroid Prime 3 says it can be done just fine for very casual players.

Very cute, but it's really not that different from a mouse-and-keyboard setup. Which, you know, those rather un-casual Counterstrike types tend to like.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28329033)

My problem with MP3 was that when you moved the wiimote it would move the cursor to a point then turn the head instead of having the head and cursor fixed so that moving the cursor moved the head and vise versa just like any mouse+keyboard FPS.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 5 years ago | (#28329517)

You can adjust the controls in MP3 to have a smaller center-area, the game plays then a good bit smoother then with the default. However that type of control setup you propose has one 'little' problem, it would make it impossible to hit something. The smaller you make the center-area the harder it is to keep the view steady, if you make it really small, it makes it impossible to keep your aim steady, so you would be constantly rotate around your target instead of actually aiming at it. The only way it works in MP3 is because you have lock-on and can thus stop the rotation from happening.

I would love to see a FPS on Wii that uses the analogstick not for strafe, but for rotate (Doom1 style), that way you could do all the aiming with the Wiimote and leave all the rotation to the stick. Having rotation and aim on the IR pointer never felt all to comfortable a control scheme.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (2, Interesting)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 5 years ago | (#28328795)

Metroid Prime 3 says it can be done just fine for very casual players.

For the 1000th time

-"Casual" is only an insult to immature gamers who take themselves way too seriously. Using it as an insult makes you and the gaming community look ridiculous. Trying to contrast yourself to "casual" gaming also is ridiculous.

-"Casual" and "real/hardcore/super duper/other artificial term you come up with to make yourself sound better" are not mutually exclusive. It is actually possible to play wii fit and then play WoW or whatever games you prefer. The videogame police will really not come to your house and arrest you, your immune system won't kill you if you try to play the other game type.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (1)

mobby_6kl (668092) | more than 5 years ago | (#28329191)

"Casual" is only an insult because you're making it one. All the GP post actually said was that it only works for people who play the game casually. In other words, those who don't take it too seriously or spend a significant amount of time on it.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28329623)

"Casual" is only an insult because nearly every PS3/360 fanboy on the internet is making it one. GGP clearly implied that "casual" gamers are some kind of sub-human lifeforms who aren't worthy of the air breathed by the elite "hardcore" players.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (1)

BKX (5066) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330015)

The irony in this whole casual vs hardcore debate is that the casual gamers think the hardcore gamers are just as stupid and unimportant and the hardcore gamers think the casual ones.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (1)

genner (694963) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330267)

The irony in this whole casual vs hardcore debate is that the casual gamers think the hardcore gamers are just as stupid and unimportant and the hardcore gamers think the casual ones.

I was going to throw down some nerd rage but I'll just post this instead.
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/ [vgcats.com]

Arguing just cuts into my wow time.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28327511)

Clearly you never'ed played an FPS on the Wii. it works suprisingly well. Though, I agree with the fighters. I think a grand total of 3 people use the Wiimote in Brawl.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28327567)

A friend of mine once broke a leg and, when I asked him what happened, he replied "I fell off a motorcycle." Since we weren't old enough to ride motorcycles back then, I was very surprised. Seeing this, he continued: "A motorcycle at the arcade." This was in the 90's.

Re:Motion control doesn't work (2, Interesting)

Ross D Anderson (1020653) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327931)

I expect it will have best effect when used as a combination of the controller and the motion sensing, i.e. for motion sensing leaning round from cover could be done fairly trivially wheras it obviously won't cut it for running across a battlefield.
How about casting spells in Oblivion style games etc. Having heard that Natal is capable of tracking 42 joints (or something) I don't think it's too hard to imagine casting different spells by using alternating hands and hand gestures. Maybe even something elaborate like drawing a shape in the air ala Black & White's gesture system for the more complicated to cast spells.
What about using hand signals to command your squad like the real army do? e.g. halt, herringbone formation etc.
I'm sure if I can churn out these ideas in just a minute of idle thought then they'll find some interesting ways of integrating them with FPS.

Daw... (5, Insightful)

buttfscking (1515709) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327497)

Does anyone else prefer just a standard controller?

Re:Daw... (2, Informative)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327569)

This is why i feel Sixaxis is so underrated. Its a great blend of regular controller with some light motion control when appropriate. The only game ive seen abuse the sixaxis is Lair.

Agreed (2, Informative)

StreetStealth (980200) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327733)

The Sixaxis, as utilized in the otherwise middling PS3 Super Smash Brothers clone Rag Doll Kung Fu: Fists of Plastic, does exactly what I'd hoped Nintendo would have done with SSB on the Wii.

The controls are generally as you would expect, but there are some wonderful little motion-based touches: Want to try pulling off a particularly big whack? You jolt the controller in the direction you're punching. Ground-pound area-of-effect attack? Jolt the controller downward as you punch.

Oh, and there's a "meditate" mode where you can float in the air, trading off becoming a sitting duck for some health regeneration -- you do this by flipping the controller upside down. Brilliant!

Re:Daw... (1, Informative)

BoogeyOfTheMan (1256002) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327761)

Its used in a lot of games actually. In Killzone for sniping, Uncharted uses it for aiming a grenade toss (and a few other areas), LBP uses it for head and body angle. Burnout used it for something as well, but I turned it off when I found the option so I am not sure what, exactly, it did.

I agree with you about it though. As long as its just a here and there implementation and not the main way to control the game, it can be fun.

Re:Daw... (1)

seebs (15766) | more than 5 years ago | (#28329689)

Lair's motion controls were awesome. It wasn't an abuse; it worked perfectly. There is just one limitation: You had to not be a fucking moron.

But given that, controls were awesome.

Re:Daw... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28332929)

Well, that and it was frustrating as heck to use it as a 'digital' controller for all the special moves. For just flying around it was great though.

Re:Daw... (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 5 years ago | (#28329871)

Which games do use Sixaxis for anything useful? By far most seem to completly ignore it, a tiny few are all motion controls (Rub a Dub, Flower) and another few do make very light use of it (MetalGear4). But overall I haven't seen a single game that uses motion controls for something that couldn't be done with an analag stick just as well. For me SIXAXIS looks like a solution waiting for a problem, but then I haven't seen all PS3 games so I might be missing something.

Re:Daw... (1)

genner (694963) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330293)

Which games do use Sixaxis for anything useful? By far most seem to completly ignore it, a tiny few are all motion controls (Rub a Dub, Flower) and another few do make very light use of it (MetalGear4). But overall I haven't seen a single game that uses motion controls for something that couldn't be done with an analag stick just as well. For me SIXAXIS looks like a solution waiting for a problem, but then I haven't seen all PS3 games so I might be missing something.

Lair uses it quite a bit as well as every racing game I've played on the PS3.
Would like to see more use for it besides turing the controller into a stearing wheel.

Re:Daw... (1)

Nekomusume (956306) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327639)

Yes. Action games bore me. Action games where I have to actually DO the action actively irritate me.

Re:Daw... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28328047)

Now you've done it! Here come the WiiNazi police to take you in for not bowing to the same public opinion that made Titanic the highest grossing movie.

Re:Daw... (2, Funny)

whoop (194) | more than 5 years ago | (#28328119)

They really need to add some more buttons to the Xbox/PS controllers to be usable to me. Until then, they are nothing but cheap knockoffs for keyboards. A keyboard has what, 100+ keys? Then you add in Shift/Ctrl/Alt modifiers, and that gives you like 5000 combinations. Give me a 5000 button controller, and maybe then I'll think about buying an Xbox, Playstation.

And don't tell me I should conform to how Sony and Microsoft say a gamer should play games. I'll play them the way I want, or ELSE!! That'll show them. The customer is always right and all that jazz, ya know.

Re:Daw... (3, Insightful)

arth1 (260657) | more than 5 years ago | (#28328225)

Short answer: You're not alone.

Longer answer:
I think an ideal controller is one that makes up for all the things we CAN'T do well in meatspace, allowing us to do them in bitspace.
Not one that favours the jocks, but one that favours the brains.

The wii was destined to be a fad from the start, much like similar approaches in the past in the arcades. Sure, they attracted users due to the novelty, but pretty soon they'd going to discover that hitting a baseball with a make-believe and unresponsive/overresponsive "bat" in front of a computer isn't nearly as fun as doing it with a REAL bat and ball.
And comparing games to games, they're not as fun in the long run as games where your decisions are more important than your physical coordination.

Yes, physical controllers are a fad. A reoccurring fad. They have their place, but won't ever take over, because they will always be a poor facsimile for the real thing, and can't compete with the controllers that are designed to let you do MORE than what's physically possible.

Re:Daw... (2, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#28328287)

Not one that favours the jocks, but one that favours the brains.

The reality is that current motion controller games fall into this category already; you need only apply your brain and your reflexes, which last I checked were not considered to be the exclusive purview of the jocks among us. Unfortunately, video games that don't expect you to move around at all truly do engender fat asses and poor muscle tone. Sure, not all gamers have a fat ass, but if all you do is play games you'll get that way.

Yes, physical controllers are a fad. A reoccurring fad. They have their place, but won't ever take over, because they will always be a poor facsimile for the real thing, and can't compete with the controllers that are designed to let you do MORE than what's physically possible.

You can do more than is physically possible without a controller, too. We're not talking about reality overlay games, you're going to be controlling a character just like always in most situations.

Physical controllers ceased being a fad when the Wii came out with one in the box.

Re:Daw... (2, Interesting)

CharityA (1576551) | more than 5 years ago | (#28329367)

The wii controller does not really require you to make exactly the same motion as hitting a bat with a ball or throwing a punch. It's a hybrid. You only need to flick your wrist. This does involve reflexes. It does not involve strength and to a lesser extent, stamina. It is still a lot of coordination. I think the old fighting games where you had to punch in a 10 button combination and get "nintendo thumb" is almost the same thing. The range of motion required for the wii mote is only slightly more than the old games. Sure, you can put more into it than that, but that is up to the user. If you do, you will become more fit and I think that was a little of the design behind the system. Plus you can get into it more. Have you ever seen someone playing an old nintendo game and lean back and forth with the controller as if it helped? With the wii, it does!

PS2 (1, Informative)

Alvare (1430099) | more than 5 years ago | (#28329455)

Does anyone else prefer just a standard controller?

The PS2 joystick is awesomely perfect.

PS3's R2/L2 are too far from the plastic, reducing response, it's heavier, and the sixaxis sometimes bothers when trying to play and sleep at the same time.

The XBox controller is a joke, it has SEGA like arrows, when you press right and it presses right+diagonals+up+down because of being physically connected, and playing Virtua Fighter is horribly difficult, even comparing to the PS2 joystick, and don't talk about the arcade version!
It also has the left analog in a hard position to reach, making one touch the arrows (at random).

The Wii controller is perfect for what it is for, Mario Galaxy, SSB, etc. But for action/RPG/FPS games is just dysfunctional.

Re:PS2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28329563)

The PS2 joystick is awesomely perfect.

Unless you have human hands. It's a SNES pad with two awkward lumps sticking out of the bottom. Games that use the analog sticks make my hands cramp up.

The Wii controller is perfect for what it is for, Mario Galaxy, SSB, etc. But for action/RPG/FPS games is just dysfunctional.

"Action" is a tad vague, but I can't imagine it not being just fine for RPGs and it's excellent for FPS games.

Re:Daw... (3, Insightful)

citizenr (871508) | more than 5 years ago | (#28329605)

Does anyone else prefer just a standard controller?

No, I prefer keyboard and mouse.

Re:Daw... (1)

Waccoon (1186667) | more than 5 years ago | (#28331593)

Like he said... standard.

Re:Daw... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28332843)

Keyboard and mouse is game controller perfection.

With a keyboard, it is very rare to say "damn, I don't have enough keys", unless you're playing something like Microsoft Flight Simulator or Falcon. With a mouse you have fast, completely accurate aim with no lag (and if you have a mouse like mine, 11 buttons right under your fingertips).

I don't know about this... (4, Insightful)

east coast (590680) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327525)

Replace "motion controller" with "virtual reality" and see if you can remember reading this same article circa 1990.

Re:I don't know about this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28331171)

*Real* "virtual reality" was cool, I'm played a few games in a exhibit. I thought and really hoped it was the future. And I think it would of been had the technology at the time not been so damn expensive. Now the technology isn't so expensive but it's now has this stigmatization of a failed consumer technology, that consumers don't want. But I maintained consumers would want it, just not at 90's prices.

I want a kunfu game where I really fight stuff (3, Insightful)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327631)

I want a kunfu game where my actions dodge or hit the enemies. And I don't want it to be cheesy where my moves are interpreted into a set move that could have been done with a joystick or keyboard. I want my punch's(or kick) velocity and hit placement to determine the damage dealt.

Re:I want a kunfu game where I really fight stuff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28329727)

And what are people who don't know Kung Fu supposed to do? Now they'll suck at fighting in real life and video games.

Re:I want a kunfu game where I really fight stuff (2, Informative)

Epistax (544591) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330069)

Learn to play the game? Oh noes.

Re:I want a kunfu game where I really fight stuff (1)

am 2k (217885) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330171)

I guess the inherent lack of proper force feedback would be a big problem for this. You can't really punch someone when you can't feel it when you hit the face.

Same goes for swordfighting. You can't really fight with a sword when you can't feel it when the weapon hit something (like another weapon).

Re:I want a kunfu game where I really fight stuff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28330905)

Unless you're actually a martial artist, you won't do too well. And the number of gamers that are also martial artists is too low for a game like this to be feasible. Game designers need to make money, too.

fp do7l (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28327659)

I see th3 sMame

Re:fp do7l (1)

wampus (1932) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327779)

O RLY?

No use for TBS games (2, Insightful)

macraig (621737) | more than 5 years ago | (#28327947)

I don't see a very practical use for all this motion control in turn-based strategy games - you know, the sort of games that work the mind rather than the reflexes. I suspect that increased availability of these devices and the technology will make FPS and "arcade" style games even more dominant than they already are. They will entice kids to "think with their hands" instead of their heads. It may be true that the majority are already inclined or predisposed to that, but it doesn't help shift the Bell Curve when Big Business panders to the median for the sake of profit rather than trying to help shift the median to the right a little.

Re:No use for TBS games (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 5 years ago | (#28328383)

I don't see a very practical use for all this motion control in turn-based strategy games - you know, the sort of games that work the mind rather than the reflexes.

So you would prefer a WiiEEGmote? An interesting idea, especially for games with force feedback control.

Re:No use for TBS games (1)

macraig (621737) | more than 5 years ago | (#28328473)

How would this "WiiEEGmote" work? If it lets me move the mouse and select/click items with a focused thought, that's a LOT more generalized than just a gaming device, no? Hasn't mouse tracking that follows the gaze of the human eye already been demonstrated, too? (Of course that's an error-prone and wasteful method, since you might look at something that you don't need to select or manipulate.) What else would this WiiEEGmote do?

Re:No use for TBS games (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28328933)

Stare at you relentlessly. 6_6

Re:No use for TBS games (2, Funny)

macraig (621737) | more than 5 years ago | (#28329553)

Oh, you said that just for the opportunity to use that emoticon!

No harm to TBS games (3, Insightful)

Dr. Zed (222961) | more than 5 years ago | (#28328589)

I don't see a very practical use for all this motion control in turn-based strategy games - you know, the sort of games that work the mind, but not the reflexes. They will entice kids to "think with their hands" in addition to their heads.

There. I fixed it for you.

But seriously, while I am disappointed the direction arcades, in general, have gone (all fps/racing/fighting; hardly any variation on themes), I don't think adding motion means that the games are going to be any more mindless. If you go from "A = Punch; B = Kick; C = Dodge" to "Thrust High = Punch; Thrust Low = Kick; Point up = Dodge", the game is just about as mindless, but it is at least more active.

Motion sensing opens up a whole new range of game possibilities. How much they suck is up to the people who make the games and the people who buy them.

I was playing a puzzle game on the Wii called Boom Blox [wikipedia.org] . It's an idea similar to Jenga. You could have some something basic without motion sensing. But instead, you can have something with a rather impressive physics engine, such that understanding a thing or two about weight distribution and leverage can give you an edge. Here is a simple game where understanding and thought can give you a competitive edge.

As far as turn-based games go, I enjoy them a lot. There is nothing in a motion sensing controller that would prevent someone from making a turn-based game, and there are turn-based games for the current motion-sensing platforms.

As far as your subject, 'No use for TSB games'. There is still more possibilities with motion-sensing controls when it comes to giving your turns input. How much they make use of it depends on the developer and the game they are developing.

Re:No use for TBS games (1)

kamapuaa (555446) | more than 5 years ago | (#28331547)

I don't see a very practical use for all this motion control in turn-based strategy games - you know, the sort of games that work the mind rather than the reflexes. I just have to ask, how can you possibly think turn based strategy games work the mind?

Re:No use for TBS games (1)

macraig (621737) | more than 5 years ago | (#28331789)

I can possibly think it because, not only is it possible, it's actually been and is. Obviously you've never played any of the good ones, if you have to ask that question, and your tone doesn't make me inclined to share, young man!

Whatever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28329767)

Riccitello pretending to have foresight and camouflaging the fact that EA is being reactionary here.

This is from the dude who's main idea is simply to pay top dollar for whatever was last year's hit.

Whatever.

Wiimote vs natal vs Sony wand, eyetoy and sixaxis (1)

Chewy71 (1418757) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330155)

In the fight between the three companies -The wii is well set up -Project natal certianly looks good -However I think that Sony's combination of the sixaxis eyetoy and wand will win over in the end.

Re:Wiimote vs natal vs Sony wand, eyetoy and sixax (1)

rbarreira (836272) | more than 5 years ago | (#28330321)

Why do you think Sony will win? They just have a prototype now, with yet a lot of time to go until the product and software come out. Then Sony has an uphill battle to get the userbase to adopt motion controls (with no guarantee the userbase will be interested).

Nintendo already has the peripheral available at retail, some developed games launched and some waiting to be launched, a willing userbase, and a killer app to sell their motion controls with (Wii Sports Resort).

Anything could happen, but most likely Nintendo's WM+ will be much more successful than Natal or Sony's wand.

You came late. (1)

bronney (638318) | more than 5 years ago | (#28331721)

But I felt the market wanted that technology and I'm glad it's coming.

Stop astroturfing and "pretend" it's something we are all hyping for. I would be glad it's coming too but the fact is thousands of us already came. We saw, we came, we even put the Wii away and went back to the PC already. Leaving the Wii sit idly in the living room to entertain guests occasionally when we're out of the basement. But generally we got the idea, shall I say, virgin no more.

To beat the Wii remote, the giants needs something truly innovative, and not copying, tagging along, or improving chopsticks.
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