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A Black Day For Internet Freedom In Germany

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the sun-going-down dept.

Censorship 420

Several readers including erlehmann and tmk wrote to inform us about the dawning of Internet censorship in Germany under the usual guise of protecting the children. "This week, the two big political parties ruling Germany in a coalition held the final talks on their proposed Internet censorship scheme. DNS queries for sites on a list will be given fake answers that lead to a page with a stop sign. The list itself is maintained by the German federal police (Bundeskriminalamt). A protest movement has formed over the course of the last several months, and over 130K citizens have signed a petition protesting the law. Despite this, and despite criticism from all sides, the two parties sped up the process for the law to be signed on Thursday, June 18, 2009."

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These parties are also big Linux supporters (0, Flamebait)

linuxisashittyos (1574017) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350583)

Does anyone else not find it unusual that a country like Germany who apparently is a big supporter of Linux and the Nazi-esque GPL would be all over internet censorship? Doesn't surprise me in the least.

Re:These parties are also big Linux supporters (4, Funny)

despe666 (802244) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350783)

Godwin's law on the first post? Come on give us a chance at least!

I know the feeling. (5, Insightful)

cyborch (524661) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350587)

We've had that in Denmark for years now. OpenDNS should be the solution to all of your problems...

Re:I know the feeling. (3, Insightful)

Z00L00K (682162) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350693)

OpenDNS is the solution.

At least until the DNS queries are hijacked.

Re:I know the feeling. (1)

pwinkeler (413102) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350745)

And I am sure it won't be long before DNS proxies will show up on ports other than 53...!

Re:I know the feeling. (1)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351193)

And I am sure it won't be long before DNS proxies will show up on ports other than 53...!

And we all know those can't be hijacked.

Re:I know the feeling. (1)

pwinkeler (413102) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351323)

And so the cookie crumbles: loose some freedom; gain some security holes. All in a day's work for dedicated government officials, LOL.

Re:I know the feeling. (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350985)

Hell, my college network does this and I'm pissed.

Re:I know the feeling. (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351245)

vpn can carry dns queries aswell :)

Re:I know the feeling. (5, Insightful)

ae1294 (1547521) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351043)

We've had that in Denmark for years now. OpenDNS should be the solution to all of your problems...

Do you really think that the government doesn't know about other DNS servers? I assure you there is some sort of plan and reason why they have not asked the ISP's to block or MASQ any request with a destination of 53.

My simple guess is any request with a destination of 53 is logged and then resolved at some later time. A database of people who use these other servers is maintained and flags are included such as "pedophile, hacker, warez, terrorist, etc". This list then is used to help law enforcement and or they will just come and round all of you up one day.

What's going to end up happening is someone is going to have to run a hacked all the hell bind server that takes encrypted requests on port 80 and replies back with your request which will then need to be cached locally so as not to totally hose your browsing. Then the government is going to start banning those server's IP addresses and someone is going to have to make a DNS resolver that runs in a distributed manner. Then the government will do something else, probably make it a huge crime to use any of this stuff and we will all be basically where we are now with copyright infringement which is to say that people don't respect that law and so all law becomes less respected. This is all the same as what happened in the 1930's US Prohibition of booze.

"All of this has happened before, and it will happen again..."

Re:I know the feeling. (1)

cellurl (906920) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351355)

I agree. Copyright-prohibition is just like whiskey-prohibition. My prediction is an ISP tax benefiting Hollywood. I say fight, don't cave. I did. I started http://www.wikispeedia.org/ [wikispeedia.org] before they did! Perhaps I can save a couple billion!

Re:I know the feeling. (2, Insightful)

half_d (314945) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351473)

My simple guess is any request with a destination of 53 is logged and then resolved at some later time.

I have a hard time believing that this would be the case; at least here in Denmark, everything about the different filtering we've experienced points at zero-knowledge politicians telling some IT staff what to do - and do it now!

No real blocking is taking place, just sort of placebo blocking.. by the way, on the Danish version of the 'page with the red STOP sign' it says that ones visit to that page has not been logged.

Our government, just like the rest of the 'civilized' world are acting crazy with paranoia. It seems like they (the politicians) are having a race as to whom can implement most privacy/human-rights defying laws fastest!

Re:I know the feeling. (5, Funny)

an unsound mind (1419599) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351489)

In Nazi Germany... wait, that isn't funny.

Re:I know the feeling. (4, Insightful)

lgw (121541) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351127)

I expect political viewpoints judged "extreme" by those in power are already on the blacklist in Germany.

Hasn't Denmark put opposition political websites on the blacklist too? I recal a /. story on that.

Does anyone really think that blacklisting opposing political viewpoints is merely an "unfortunate side effect" of schemes like this?

Re:I know the feeling. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351221)

Yes and now they want to block poker sites so you can only gamble on ze goverments site. And now that there is money involved I am sure that they are not leaving it at that but will demand a better blocking.

Re:I know the feeling. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351243)

It's not the solution. DNS-based censorship is only the first variety. It's been mentioned in the law as the MINIMUM. ISPs can go above and beyong and changes to the law can easily include more intrusive forms of filtering.

Geez! (5, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350603)

Man, those Germans are worse than Nazis.

Re:Geez! (3, Insightful)

MadMatr07 (1278450) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350669)

...History is cyclical my friend.

Re:Geez! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351071)

How true. Which explains pretty well why I'm seeing a dreadful future for my country.
By the way, I'm Italian.

Re:Geez! (1)

frosty_tsm (933163) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351049)

Godwin's Law in 2 minutes. Must be a record.

Re:Geez! (0)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351081)

Whoosh!

Re:Geez! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351199)

Whoosh.

Re:Geez! (0, Troll)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351253)

Godwin's Law in 2 minutes. Must be a record.

In an article about a TOTALITARIAN move by the GERMAN government? I'm surprised it took so long.

Re:Geez! (3, Funny)

HaZardman27 (1521119) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351159)

How long until the "internet burnings" begin?

alternative dns servers; (5, Informative)

miruku (642921) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350633)

https://www.opendns.com/ [opendns.com]

http://www.dnsserverlist.org/ [dnsserverlist.org]

Re:alternative dns servers; (5, Informative)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350975)

apt-get install bind9
127.0.0.1 top of resolv.conf

Any slashdot discussion about DNS will imminently fill up with hundreds of recommendations for opendns.com ...which is fine, but also a bit puzzling.
Don't most of us have at least one linux machine somewhere, where you can put a caching nameserver, then point any windows machines on the LAN to that.

Re:alternative dns servers; (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351215)

Yeah, because that caching nameserver just magically pulls its DNS info out of thin air...

Re:alternative dns servers; (1)

Locklin (1074657) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351301)

Doesn't bind9 still require a third party DNS server to get those addresses in the first place?

Re:alternative dns servers; (1)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351377)

You'll need to maintain your root hints.

Gigaton Fail - (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28350657)

Looks like it's time for Germans to learn how to browse like the Chinese; Encryption, proxies, darknets, deep web crawling, and leaving as few traces behind as possible.

For whatever naive reason I allowed myself to assume that Western Europe had finally begun to understand that police states are regressive and undesirable. Each passing day, it becomes clearer and clearer that realization has still yet to be made.

Re:Gigaton Fail - (5, Interesting)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350761)

Or browse like the Iranians. There's currently a pretty decent number of people helping set up proxies around the world for use in Iran. Austin Heap [twitter.com] managed to setup some VPN servers on gigabit-ethernet.

I'm working on a Virtual Appliance that runs Squid, Tor, Polipo+Tor, ziproxy & ssh for use by people who don't quite know how to setup squid for themselves or want to sandbox it.

Re:Gigaton Fail - (0, Troll)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350819)

> I'm working on a Virtual Appliance that runs Squid, Tor, Polipo+Tor, ziproxy & ssh for
> use by people who don't quite know how to setup squid for themselves or want to sandbox
> it.

That's excellent, but don't expect enough people to use it to make any difference.

Re:Gigaton Fail - (5, Insightful)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351403)

Imagine if every single person in Iran thought that before they went outside.

I'm just a white collar guy that works 9-5. People asked for proxy servers. People wanted help setting up proxy servers. I did what I could.

I should have just watched American Idol.

Re:Gigaton Fail - (4, Informative)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351351)

My host forgive me. http://www.exstatic.org.nyud.net:8080/proxybox/ [nyud.net] .

Again, this is just something I thew together last night when people on Fark (VII threads and counting) were wanting to help but not able to figure out squid.

I would appreciate any feedback or help hardening it or adding features or getting the download size down or etc...

jjarvis98@gmail.com

Re:Gigaton Fail - (5, Funny)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350873)

That's not what the Ministry of Truth told me.

Re:Gigaton Fail - (3, Interesting)

weinbrenner (248778) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351247)

Oh, most people here would agree that police states are bad. But on the other hand they would say that there are exceptions (child pornography, terrorism etc.). And of course "our politicians would never do something really wrong!!!"

People in Germany live in a rich land which has last experienced war 64 years ago - so most people see it for granted that they will always live in a democracy, where their freedom is guaranteed.
Intellectually they know that in other countries this isn't so, but if you personally never experienced something else, then it is hard to imagine that this might change. And because they fail to grasp the fact that their freedom and their rights could be endangered they see no reason to defend it.

Easily circumvented? (5, Interesting)

JesseL (107722) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350675)

Not that easy circumvention of a bad law makes it okay, but as a practical measure wouldn't it be easy to just use a DNS server in a different country? Or is Germany planning on firewalling all DNS queries except those from 'official' servers?

What are they censoring? (3, Interesting)

firesyde424 (1127527) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350697)

Remember back a year or so, when the .alt newsgroup was taken down because something like 1% of the newsgroups in that domain had child pornography on them? You might as well have gotten rid of the whole internet because people could have found child porn there. It doesn't make sense.

I would have expected something like this "DNS blacklist" in Iran or China. But Germany??

This sounds like censorship for the sake of censorship

Re:What are they censoring? (3, Informative)

Freetardo Jones (1574733) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350737)

I would have expected something like this "DNS blacklist" in Iran or China. But Germany??
 
This sounds like censorship for the sake of censorship

You must not know much about Germany to be surprised by this. Have a good read on this [wikipedia.org] article.

Re:What are they censoring? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28350787)

Apparently, authoritarianism lays down some pretty deep roots. You can take the Germans out of the Nazi Party, but you can't take the Nazi Party out of Germany.

Huh? (2, Insightful)

denzacar (181829) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351177)

This sounds like censorship for the sake of censorship

You mean there is another kind?

What's Next? (3, Interesting)

arizwebfoot (1228544) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350701)

Are gonna start tagging "children" with gps locator tag subcutaneous inserts?

Then we start with those older folks suffering from dementia?

Then we go on next to those who committed felonies?

Finally, making it a requirement for all people who want to work, buy groceries, etc?

What's next?

Re:What's Next? (1)

TinFoilMan (1371973) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350729)

Dude and I thought I was the one with the tin foil hat! LOL

Re:What's Next? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351111)

Dude and I thought I was the one with the tin foil hat! LOL

... laughed the man whilst talking to someone on his GPS-equipped phone.

Re:What's Next? (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28350899)

I think they all ready are. Somewhere I read that it was the US governments desire to tag all sex offenders so that they could know where they are at all times. Already, the police are tagging cars and trucks without the owners being aware of it.

Re:What's Next? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351045)

Are gonna start tagging "children" with gps locator tag subcutaneous inserts?

Then we start with those older folks suffering from dementia?

Whole families have been chipped in Florida by their choice.

  http://www.miaminightout.com/spotlight/advop/11172002/microchip.shtml

Then we go on next to those who committed felonies?

We're on it. http://www.cs.unc.edu/~pozefsky/COMP006D_F05/Criminal.ppt

Finally, making it a requirement for all people who want to work, buy groceries, etc?

What's next?

There's firms that used to exist called city watcher that had their employees gain access to doors. U Conn developing chips to implant into soldiers to monitor vital signs.

Tag the monkeys (1)

TiggertheMad (556308) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351139)

What's next?

I dunno, they will probably start tagging animals once they run out of people...

Re:Tag the monkeys (1)

sdnoob (917382) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351291)

I dunno, they will probably start tagging animals once they run out of people...

they already DO that...

SETI better hit a home run pretty soon -- the government is gonna need aliens to tag when they run out of earth-bound flesh.

and we humans are prime targets for them too, so it'll go both ways; as we'll all be well-versed by then in the bending-over-to-get-large-stick-rammed-up-the-ass maneuver.

Re:What's Next? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351329)

Finally, making it a requirement for all people who want to work, buy groceries, etc?

What's next?

Having to agree that 2+2=5

Re:What's Next? (1)

dcollins (135727) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351469)

"Are gonna start tagging "children" with gps locator tag subcutaneous inserts?"

Sure, and Slashdotters have already been helping with "how-to" advice: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/06/01/1659209 [slashdot.org]

the wall (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28350703)

I thought the wall came down?

Re:the wall (4, Interesting)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350811)

All in all it's just another brick in the wall.

Re:the wall (1)

Freetardo Jones (1574733) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350865)

There was censorship on both sides of the wall. This is just more of the same.

Re:the wall (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351001)

Well, now, after 20 years, we come to realize finally that bringing down the wall only resulted in a country that unifies the worst of both worlds.

Mein Herr! (5, Insightful)

BigBlueOx (1201587) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350809)

Before you get on ze net, ve neet to zee your papers. Your papers, bitte.

First, switch to Open DNS, second, vote the bastards out. Keep voting the bastards out until you get your bastards in there.

Re:Mein Herr! (1)

GPLDAN (732269) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351173)

Hoooooooooooogan!

DNS spoofing is just one way to satisfy the law (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28350823)

The law demands no specific way of intercepting the traffic, just one that works. If DNS spoofing proves to be unable to satisfy the law, then we will see more drastic measures, like blocking or rerouting access to alternative DNS servers and transparent proxies.

Officially the proposal is pushed as a means to combat child pornography, but politicians from all involved parties have already hinted at other possible uses for the filtering infrastructure which will be installed. The parties are quick to deny any intent to allow such an extension, but there are even official press releases clearly hinting at a not-so-hidden agenda.

Re:DNS spoofing is just one way to satisfy the law (4, Informative)

0123456 (636235) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351041)

Given that the whole world is moving to DNSSEC, have fun trying to spoof it two years from now.

Holy shit! (5, Funny)

jockeys (753885) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350845)

This thread is Godwin-proof!

Think about it:
1. it's a story about government censorship (with all the usual iron-fisted delicacy wielded by big-government)
2. it's a process that is completely non-transparent, and creates a sort of internet-secret-police
3. it's happening in Germany

It's the perfect storm of internet flamewars, completely immune to Godwin's Lawn!

Re:Holy shit! (1)

Dystopian Rebel (714995) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350969)

"In Soviet Russia, jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous."

There, fixed your sig for you.

Re:Holy shit! (3, Funny)

solafide (845228) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351171)

Godwin: "You young folks these days, thinking you're immune to me. Get off my lawn!"

Re:Holy shit! (2, Funny)

Jesselnz (866138) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351225)

This really isn't a big deal. If the Germans want Internet, they can just take it from Poland, or maybe France (they could connect the tubes through Belgium). It worked last time, didn't it?

You just blew my freakin mind... (1)

TiggertheMad (556308) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351239)

It's the perfect storm of internet flamewars, completely immune to Godwin's Lawn!

Ignoring the other points you raised, didn't you just make it immune to Godwin's by mentioning Godwins? In effect isn't Godwin's just a case of Schodinger's cat, because you can't really discuss a thread's Godwin status in the thread without mentioning Godwin's, thus invoking the exception to the law?

Thanks for 'killing Godwin's cat', you nazi.

Old news for Finland, too (5, Informative)

wolfie123 (1331071) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350849)

We've had this in Finland for a while now, too. See http://lapsiporno.info/english-2008-02-15.html [lapsiporno.info] for internet activist Matti Nikki's fight against the debated censorship. OpenDNS is the de facto way to circumvent this censor list. Ironically, his site is blocked by the child porn list by our Keskusrikospoliisi (federal police).

Re:Old news for Finland, too (1)

Ux64 (1187075) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351015)

I'm sorry, I tried to check out the url that you provided. But it doesn't seem to be working. Please check the url. - Thank you!
All I got was this page:
http://file.jaatiedostosi.com/2RdKXq/lapsiporno.info.png [jaatiedostosi.com]

Re:Old news for Finland, too (2, Informative)

wolfie123 (1331071) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351123)

Seems like your Finnish ISP has the censor list in use - that's the page you land on.

For all I know, you might be some guy who tries to enforce Lex Karpela or something, so I won't give you any advice to circumvent the restriction. Sorry for that. Google around and you're bound to find it out yourself.

Secret Lists? (1)

hattig (47930) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351271)

Without open publication of the banned lists, it is all too easy for a government or police force to blanket ban whatever it decides too, regardless of the legality.

It's easy to argue that child porn websites should be blocked, but these systems have a habit of insidious creeping scope. Next it's websites about guns. Then it is opposition party websites. Then it is foreign websites that suggest that people should have freedom and rights and liberty and power over the state.

Without checks and balances, or due process (a site can only go onto the list with judicial overview, and with specific reasons. Accidentally linking to a site that was hijacked with banned material should not count) this is a horrendously one-sided system.

Before we use the 'police state' meme again... (4, Insightful)

Xaedalus (1192463) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350853)

Read TFA. This is not a 'police state' in the forming. This is a decision by the government, that apparently is backed by a majority of their citizens. We tend to forget here on /. that not everyone values freedom of the net like we do. We netizens are outnumbered by well-mannered, law-abiding individuals who aren't particularly net-savvy, don't understand the social dynamics of the net, and frankly don't want to. These people hear the stories about child porn websites, they read about "HACKERS!!!" (aka black hats) conducting cyber warfare in Estonia and other government institutions, and they see the power of porn in general on the net, and they are frightened by it. To them, having government institute censorship under 'reasonable' guidelines is the norm and should be enforced because that is the system they live in. They're sheeple. They don't want to take the time to understand the true nature of the issues at stake because to them, there is no need to. They live safe, secure lives. They perceive the internet to be an unregulated, dangerous place where their children could be psychologically damaged, their finances plundered, their identities stolen, and above all else, a world that is completely outside their own. Yes, politicians are going to take this to the limit. Yes, this is a dangerous trend. In order to fight this, we have to understand the basis of this, and the basis is that we are outnumbered by people who do value security and comfort above freedom, because that is how they choose to live their lives.

Re:Before we use the 'police state' meme again... (5, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350955)

I don't believe its at all the will of the people, on this one.

its a power grab for the gov, plain and simple.

germans tend to be technical, detail oriented and saavy and there is no way I can believe the population would WANT this.

Re:Before we use the 'police state' meme again... (2, Interesting)

Shoe Puppet (1557239) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351425)

germans tend to be technical, detail oriented and saavy

You must be talking about a different Germany from the one I live in. Most Germans have no clue about modern tech.

Re:Before we use the 'police state' meme again... (5, Insightful)

Repossessed (1117929) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350971)

Censorship is *always* backed by the majority. Doesn't keep it from being a violation of human rights.

Re:Before we use the 'police state' meme again... (5, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351039)

Yeah, that is exactly what Alexis de Tocqueville and John Stuart Mill warned about when they talked about the "Tyranny of the majority [wikipedia.org] ."

Re:Before we use the 'police state' meme again... (5, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351053)

Read TFA. This is not a 'police state' in the forming.

Indeed not. When the police can decide what you are and aren't allowed to access on the Internet, the police state is already here.

Re:Before we use the 'police state' meme again... (0)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351327)

Uh, isn't it the job of the police to prevent you from, or capture you for committing a crime? Is that what counts as a Police State these days?

Re:Before we use the 'police state' meme again... (1, Troll)

sesshomaru (173381) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351491)


We tend to forget here on /. that not everyone values freedom of the net like we do.

Indeed, Germany is famous for not valuing freedom like we do. Of course, the last time they "didn't value freedom like we do" well that didn't work out so well for us, or France, or Belgium, or England, or Poland....

I'm just saying...

I'm sure back in Weimar Germany, no one thought that censoring the ending of Cabinet of Dr. Caligari was a precursor to the Third Reich but that's the way things turned out...

Look, if I were a German citizen, I'd probably be extra-hyper-vigilant about authoritarian tendencies.. you know, what with two world wars and the lovely example of The Third Reich and later East Germany before me. But that's just me.

I'll say it's none of my business until they move into the Sudetenland, however.

Freudian Slip or Bad Translation? (1)

Wowlapalooza (1339989) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350861)

From TFA:

The net community did not only oppose the governments plans, but also made constructive suggestions how to deal with the problem of child pornography without introducing a censorship architecture and circumcising constitutional freedoms.

Re:Freudian Slip or Bad Translation? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351083)

From TFA:

... circumcising constitutional freedoms.

A little snip here, a little snip there...

For a list of the fastest DNS servers for you... (3, Informative)

LichtVonWahrheit (1542169) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350885)

http://www.dnsserverlist.org/ [dnsserverlist.org] This site takes into account round trip time, not just the time it takes to ping a DNS server.

brothels? (2, Interesting)

charlieo88 (658362) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350895)

Wait, what? Legal brothels are okay but internet smut is a bridge too far?

Re:brothels? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351231)

There are no legal brothels offering children, you idiot.

Re:brothels? (1)

Missing_dc (1074809) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351485)

It is all about the taxes, my friend, money is power, you retain power through the control of money, in the lawless wild west-ness of the internet, taxes are hard to obtain and control, but a nice campaign contribution might keep you off the blacklist.

The red light districts are monitored and controlled, assuredly taxed.

the illegal brothels are not, but then, those girls don't generally carry health cards...

Nazis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28350939)

Adolf, is that you?

Freenet & Other censorship resistant systems (1)

Ux64 (1187075) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350941)

People don't get it, if content needs to be delivered. It should be delivered using some other method than traditional web, which is easy to block. How about using Freenet, they just released new version. It's much much harder to block than traditional http/https. Freenet: http://freenetproject.org/ [freenetproject.org] For Filesharers there is GnuNET. GnuNET: http://gnunet.org/ [gnunet.org]

On German Interwebs... (1)

arhhook (995275) | more than 5 years ago | (#28350999)

On German Interwebs, Government Censor You!

A petition? how effective... (1)

NotWithABang (1570431) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351121)

It makes me wonder every time I hear people are protesting by putting together a petition.
"I'm so furious... I'm going to sign my name!".
Do these things really have any effect? I picture myself being in power and being handed a stack of papers with names on them, I'd think I'd see it as trivializing the matter more than anything.
Especially considering how a lot of petitions are put together by running around in public places and grabbing random people with
"hey, you! sign your name!" "... ok, why not."

Was there a time when petitions truly were effective? Is it just the world we live in now, or have they always been this silly?

Just my two cents I guess.

Re:A petition? how effective... (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351335)

Was there a time when petitions truly were effective?

Depends on locale. Can't speak for Germany, but there are states in the US where a sufficient number of signatures on a petition is enough to get the measure on the state-wide ballot

Well ... (1, Insightful)

SlashDev (627697) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351149)

... let's see, If it were a child pornography site, then yes, I would agree with censorship. Why is it that people always assume that governments are meddling with their privacy, freedom of speech and freedom of choice when it's the same governments provide a blanket of protection? I am a 'lefty' on many issues, but when I see blind reactions against government against censorship, I tend to do some research, why not create a 'whitelist' of website, test it and see of you get blocked and believe you shouldn't, if you do, file a legal action against the government agency. If that site really shouldn't be blocked and was, then I'm pretty sure the whole legislation would eventually be scrapped.

Re:Well ... (1)

sesshomaru (173381) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351257)

It's Germany, and while some people like their boardgames, it's been clear for a long time that they take the "hysterical spinster" approach to censorship. Their approach isn't sane, consistent nor rational.

I simply shake my head sadly, thank Yog-Sothoth that I don't have to live there, and pray nightly to "He Who Is Not To Be Named" that German style government doesn't come to my country.

Re:Well ... (2, Insightful)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351385)

Why is it that people always assume that governments are meddling with their privacy, freedom of speech and freedom of choice when it's the same governments provide a blanket of protection?

Because, by definition, that "blanket of protection" is being provided exactly BY meddling with privacy, freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. You fail to point out that the government actions in such things are meant to "protect you from yourself."

The two are not mutually exclusive. The former is the means to the latter, and, all apologetics aside, it's utter bullshit.

Don't they ever learn? (1, Flamebait)

nsayer (86181) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351207)

Yeah. The last time the Germans had a government that exercised control over the press worked out so well for them.

Does anybody know (1)

UWM (1162951) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351269)

the url that traffic is directed to?

Just because it is Germany? (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351287)

FTA --

...to block Internet sites in order to fight child pornography ... enabling the government to block content containing child pornography.

I don't get the outrage. Is it just because it is Germany, and stirs up memories of, "Die Papieren, bitte"? Otherwise, I don't see how this is any different than shutting down ANY illegitimate business (regardless if it is online or brick-and-mortar).

Re:Just because it is Germany? (1)

Elbart (1233584) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351495)

A council of 5(!) has sporadic oversight over the banlists and will only check small samples(!) of it. The BKA (federal police department) has the control over what will be on the list, and the ISPs have no opportunity to challenge an entry or know the reasons, why an url is on the list. Further, several other official bodes, like gambling (which is a state-controlled monopoly), justice department (as a mean to block filesharing-sites and sites of "violent games") and even individual polticians (CDU-assemblyman Willy Wimmer suggested a block and taking legal actions against Google Street View, because it enables "forces from other states to take actions against unwanted Germans") already made vocal requests, that the blocks shall be extended to other areas.

Add to the list (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351305)

What needs to be done is get someone to hakc into the government list long enough to add all the DNS entries of government sites.

All that protesting (1)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351313)

Always hope it works, but I'll be really impressed when that energy is converted into actual votes.

The 1st thing to come to mind was... (1, Insightful)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351341)

... Way to take a page out of *China & Iran's* playbook there Germany!!

The second thing is, "Isn't this exactly what Hitler would have done if they had the internet in the 40's?"

Sigh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351401)

I've always said that there's a small list of things that would make me move out of the USA: martial law/internal checkpoints, national loyalty oaths, military conscription, and national communications filtering. Fortunately, I don't see the USA getting a national Web filter. At least not now.

Oh geez... (0)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351405)

I parsed the headline as "black dye for internet..."

Jesus, I gotta lay off the Guild Wars...

Aim: #1 in google (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28351441)

SPD [blog.fefe.de]

Not just Germany. (2, Informative)

Xest (935314) | more than 5 years ago | (#28351465)

Check the UK's digital Britain report released today. Under their plans to tackle file sharing they will start by sending letters.

If file sharing hasn't dropped by 70%, they're going to start blocking sites, packet shaping, etc.

It doesn't make for pleasant reading, there is absolutely no way they'll get a 70% drop in file sharing, especially not in 6 months so effectively it sounds like the government is using citizens not stopping file sharing as an excuse for a much greater censorship program by setting unrealistic targets on file sharing.

It's nice to know the Labour government is finished, but it's disturbing to know that the Tories will almost certainly follow through with this legislation and that even some of the Lib Dems support it.

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