×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Team Fortress 2 SDK Update Includes Source Files For 10 Maps

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the have-at-it dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 52

Valve recently announced on the Team Fortress 2 blog that they are releasing the source files to 10 of the game's maps, making it much easier for fans to customize them. They also said they'd be releasing more source files for maps and models in the future. "Here's the list of maps that are included in the update: Lumberyard, Ravine, Badlands, Dustbowl, Granary, Gravelpit, 2Fort, Badwater, Goldrush, and Hydro. For the beginner map makers out there, we hope this gives you an easier entry point by allowing you to alter or edit an existing map, as opposed to being forced to start from scratch. ... We also hope that it'll reduce the amount of confusion around the game logic and entity setup required for the various TF game modes."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

52 comments

Frosty Piss (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28358653)

Does it include instructions for urinating in a sub-zero environment such that one's piss freezes?

Re:Frosty Piss (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28358763)

Thats the SubZero Jarate. Coming soon to sniper.

I loved this (4, Interesting)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 4 years ago | (#28358713)

I remember when I was making maps for CS:S many years ago having the source for one of the maps was awesome. Everyone liked dust but I wanted to add some variety and put a sewer and such in. It makes it real easy for someone to make variations of a fun map so it isn't the same thing every go round.

Hell I've been told by friends that still play CS:S there are variations of my maps still being played, which is kinda sad honestly.

Re:I loved this (4, Insightful)

icsx (1107185) | more than 4 years ago | (#28359069)

It's good thing that Valve supports the community and shows how they do things. People can learn by just opening the vmf files. In the past they had to decompile the original maps with vmex software but the decompile wasn't always 100% correct. Some Areaportals and such were left off.

Beginners mappers will do mostly remakes as it's rather easy but not all of them are interested of doing something original. These just released files are more inportant to the people who already know some mapping and perhaps have made some work of their own already. Only problem there now will be is the countless remakes of their maps. Some people do not see the problem in this but as a guy who runs TF2 servers or plays a lot of custom made maps, i can safely say that 95% of the remakes will be crap, won't be played on many servers and will have only minor fixes. As the map sizes are somewhat 30-50MB, it's also kind of pain to download the countless remakes since some servers do not provide fast downloads to their maps in-game.

There are some successfull remakes of the original maps too, which incorporate separate game modes. For example Dustbowl was made to Payload map and it is quite successfull. I could see how Granary would become a nice Payload Race mode map with the hands of someone.

Re:I loved this (1)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 4 years ago | (#28359859)

Agreed, I am and was definately in the beginner category, granted I had a plan to make an original map but I never managed to get around to it. I wanted to make a DoD:S map of Hitler's Bunker. Still think it would be freaking sweet but since I don't play either of them anymore it really wouldn't be worth my time.

WTH? (1)

uncledrax (112438) | more than 4 years ago | (#28360547)

Coming from a background in the UnrealEngine (and having no Hammer or whatever experience), I was actually a bit surprised that valve didn't ship them to begin with, for exactly the reasons they claim to be shipping them now.

Sure there are a few ways you can obfuscate maps for Unreal Engine as well, but there's no difference between the source of the map and what you're playing, at least in UTech up to 3 (I have no UE3 exp sadly).

Either way, I'm glad Valve is finally doing it..maybe they will start getting the clue about SDK support from the get-go with their titles where possible. *cough L4D cough*

Re:WTH? (1)

uncledrax (112438) | more than 4 years ago | (#28360577)

And I just read some of the other comments.. looks like a few ppl were already mentioning how UTech had it already.. why as Anon I have no idea, but whatever.

Re:WTH? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28362083)

Well bassically, the original maps were easy to get via a decompiler program, so you were able to download the maps source anyway and it isn't mildly nefarious to do so. The only thing the app didn't load properly was a new type of entity written for the new map (plr_pipeline, the payload race that came out at the last update) which was a very minor thing on those bridges the carts go up on the last stage. Although an interview with the Valve map Dev's revealed it was just to do with lighting effects with the cart. Nothing major. In short, they were already available anyway.

Re:I loved this (1)

AstrumPreliator (708436) | more than 4 years ago | (#28361313)

Hell I've been told by friends that still play CS:S there are variations of my maps still being played, which is kinda sad honestly.

I don't see why. CS:S still has a huge player base, although it's being eclipsed by TF2 at this point.

Re:I loved this (1)

Toridas (742267) | more than 4 years ago | (#28363651)

Eclipsed in the fact that Valve keeps releasing updates for TF2 and not CS:S, but not eclipsed at all with player base size. CS:S still has the most players of any Steam game by far. If you add up the people playing CS:S and the original CS, it has more players than all the other Steam games combined. http://store.steampowered.com/stats/ [steampowered.com]

Re:I loved this (1)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 4 years ago | (#28402929)

Sad that they're still playing my maps... They weren't that good years ago. I would like to think someone would have made a better map by now...

And nothing for the 360 (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28358845)

There's never anything for the 360.

Buying The Orange Box instead of just building a gaming rig: Worst. Decision. Ever. :(

Re:And nothing for the 360 (1)

skreeech (221390) | more than 4 years ago | (#28358943)

Had you expected something?

Re:And nothing for the 360 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28359017)

Not exactly. I've been expecting the update since it described as coming "soon" with an indefinite date in December.

I'm just sad about Valve's release process. Their content is extraordinarily good, but sooo slow...

Re:And nothing for the 360 (3, Informative)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 4 years ago | (#28359353)

There are multiple reasons for not getting things on the X-box

1) Valve like giving things away for free. MS don't. There is a limit to what MS constitutes as a 'patch' and what is DLC. MS practically force DLC to be pay-for (I think devs get 1 or 2 free DLC's)
2) X-box is a horrible environment for running the Hammer Editor (what is used to make Source Maps) - hell, it's quite clumsy on the PC (It's by no means the worst, but for my money UnrealED was always the easiest to use) They would have to develop a version that works using Console controls
3) The sources for maps are also Huge. Downloading/storing them on your XBox where they're just going to sit and take up space that could be used for something decent is just silly.

Re:And nothing for the 360 (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28360085)

Console people have seriously got to get off their high horse of "if the PC guys have it, WE MUST HAVE IT!".

Editing a map with thumbsticks? Just who do you think you're kidding? Really. Have you ever even made a map?

It's a simple matter of what works on the system. PCs make games, so they're pretty good at making maps too. Consoles are great for playing games, but they don't make the best platform to develop on. Right tool, right job. Try not to mix that up.

Re:And nothing for the 360 (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 4 years ago | (#28362563)

Console people have seriously got to get off their high horse

Wait... CONSOLE users get off their high horse? I think it's PC gamers with the false sense of superiority, (for instance suggesting that consoles are incapable of having map editors when they've been around since at least N64.)

Editing a map with thumbsticks? Just who do you think you're kidding? Really. Have you ever even made a map?

Yes. It wasn't a well done map by any stretch of the imagination, and any map editor takes some getting used to, but it would happen. People DO make maps using thumbsticks. Not the fastest way, but explain to me what you could design with a mouse and keyboard that you absolutely could not design with thumbsticks.

Re:And nothing for the 360 (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 4 years ago | (#28365295)

Excitebike (NES) had a map editor.

(Of course, you couldn't SAVE the map, there was some bug or something lol.)

Re:And nothing for the 360 (1)

fyrewulff (702920) | more than 4 years ago | (#28369839)

Yep, I've made plenty of PC maps. I've also made maps on consoles, with a thumbstick. Timesplitters 2 and 3, Far Cry for OXbox, Far Cry 2 for 360.. all have great map editors that don't require a mouse and keyboard (in fact, Far Cry 2 for 360 and PC have basically the same map editor, except the PC can get away with more objects/fidelity due to more available RAM).

Technically Halo 3 has a map editor, although you cannot edit geometry, just objects. But you can also use the objects to make actual levels on Foundry and Sandbox.

As long as the tools are made correctly, the input device should not matter. It's not my problem that Valve still has a clunky, unweildy method for map editing and tweaking, even when using it with a mouse and keyboard. They need to come up with something better for their next engine, but they will probably never go away from the HL1 methods because they're too comfortable now.

Re:And nothing for the 360 (1)

tyroney (645227) | more than 4 years ago | (#28360601)

Also, they had already pretty much filled up the 512MB of ram, and were having issues working on some way to squeeze in more content in the form of all the new weapons. I'd link the blog post, but I'm still in my pajamas.

Re:And nothing for the 360 (4, Informative)

FOOSE (37241) | more than 4 years ago | (#28360059)

http://www.tf2.com/post.php?id=2394 [tf2.com]

"The XBox 360 update is still being worked on. If you're wondering what's taking so long, since the content is "done" on the PC already, it's mostly been around fitting it all onto the XBox. The original version of TF2 in the Orange Box was very close to the XBox's memory limit, and all the additional TF2 content we've produced has pushed well beyond it."

Re:And nothing for the 360 (1)

Jens_UK (615572) | more than 4 years ago | (#28360585)

An $X0 game instead of a $X00-$X000 machine as worst decision ever? I wonder if I can spin that logic to my wife in such a way as to skip dinner at Chili's to buy a used motorcycle.

Re:And nothing for the 360 (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 4 years ago | (#28365319)

"I'm thinking Chili's!"
"I'm hungry for something else..."

Give her some oral sexing. Make motorcycle noises during.

Re:And nothing for the 360 (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#28362045)

Could be worse. TF2/360 will eventually get updated (the limited memory makes it more difficult to pack all that goodness in). The PS3 version was outsourced to EA (ugh) and is a dead end.

Coming soon... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28359061)

Another three hundred derivative and mostly unoriginal versions of 2Fort, including at least one where every texture is porn.

Re:Coming soon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28359377)

Porn would be an improvement over orange.

Re:Coming soon... (1)

soupforare (542403) | more than 4 years ago | (#28359919)

I wouldn't mind a ctf_2fort_old that opens up the map a bit. Even after ~two years, it still feels cramped compared to qwtf. Might just be in my head, I guess.
How hard is hammer to use anyway? TF2 needs some q2 maps ported. :3

Re:Coming soon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28360757)

It'd be rather cool if they ported some of the classic TFC maps (like badlands).

Now, don't get me wrong, the TF2 maps are pretty good, but for some of them, I like the TFC versions better.

Re:Coming soon... (1)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 4 years ago | (#28361077)

Another three hundred derivative and mostly unoriginal versions of 2Fort, including at least one where every texture is porn.

Ooh, I know this one! We'll get 2forts in Hell [somethingawful.com] : Reloaded! It's 2fort! But it is in Hell!

Yeah, 2forts is such a famous map that it has been subject to talentless duplication since the original Team Fortress came out, so this release doesn't really change anything. =) It just redefines talentless duplication. Yeah. Porn textures. That would be one way to duplicate talentlessly.

Epic Games did this for ages (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28359613)

Or at least, until content cooking became important. But every UnrealEngine1 and 2 game came with fully editable maps. In UnrealEngine3 editing is more limited, but you can still see how the map was made.

How about releasing the code? (3, Interesting)

anomnomnomymous (1321267) | more than 4 years ago | (#28359757)

How about they start to release the code so proper modifications can be made? I find it quite strange that TF2 (after a few years), still hasn't released any of their code so people can start properly modding the game. Whereas there's a sortof other way to go about it (by using a plugin, called SourceMod [sourcemod.net] ), but using that is still severely limiting the possibilities to what you can do.

I find it quite strange how Valve, who can only be praised for their open attitude towards the modding community in their previous games, has now so severely shut down their latest games on these fronts (Don't misunderstand me; I'm a leveldesigner myself, and -love- their support they've been giving me for both TF2 and L4D), and find it odd that no clear answer on this question has yet been given.

Some of my own speculation of why they aren't releasing the mod-source for both TF2 and L4D are:
- The stats/achievement thing: I can imagine someone with access to the source would be able to make a certain mod which can fool the stats/achievement system, and as such someone can 'cheat': For myself, I don't put too much pleasure in unlocking them that way, but I can see how people would to cheat with enhancing their E-peen (so imo, a half-valid option).
- Afraid of people actually creating new content that can rival their next product: This is especially the case with L4D, whereas I can see that some of the things they're talking about in releasing in L4D2, has been stuff that me and a couple of my mates have been planning to actually do with L4D (but got severely disappointed at not seeing the source released). If this is one of their motivations behind this move... I can only be very disappointed.
- Valve considering the HL2-source to be enough to release to the public, as in the end, simply said, TF2 and L4D are only enhanced modifications of the Source-engine. Again, if this would be the case, I severely disagree, as L4D has several components which are fairly unique to that game, but beg to be enhanced/explored in modifications.

As noticed before, I'm a leveldesigner myself, so not too much into the whole coding-bit: But since the release of L4D we've been planning a certain mod/total modification for it, which is not possible to recreate using the SourceMod-plugin, and would even be more fudged up to create from scratch.

Other than that, the tools and documentation that they -did- release for the mapping community, is excellent, and a great help.

Re:How about releasing the code? (1)

annerajb (1155635) | more than 4 years ago | (#28359953)

I agree with you when TF2 came out i always wanted to modify it because it had a bunch of interesting elements, But so far i have been dissapointed.

Re:How about releasing the code? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28360157)

- The stats/achievement thing: I can imagine someone with access to the source would be able to make a certain mod which can fool the stats/achievement system, and as such someone can 'cheat'

This is already possible. No code required.

They don't release the source code because otherwise nobody will buy the game. It's simple as that. The code is what they make their money with, and they're not going to release it.

Re:How about releasing the code? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28360325)

I bet I'm in the minority, but I actually like the closed nature of TF2. I don't play that frequently, maybe four hours a month. When I do play, I like to just hop on and know what kind of experience I am going to have. When you start getting into mods, you very quickly wind up loosing control of the experience and you think you're just joining a CTF game and it turns out there's some sort of new game mechanic that doesn't make any sense to the casual player. Right now I always know what to expect, and I like that. Valve works their ass off to create maps that are balanced and fun for all... I've played on a few user-made maps where one class can easily dominate everyone else... there was one where I played as a demoman and just sat in one spot lining the walls with sticky bombs over and over and racked up something insane like 40 kills before someone finally managed to kill me... that doesn't happen on the valve maps because they test the crap out of them to make sure everyone is on a level playing field.

Re:How about releasing the code? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28361019)

TF2 modifications are limited to a degree. I run several tf2 servers and map. Sourcemod is the permeir modification. However there are other options. Each TF2 Server install contains a scripts folder.
With this you can modify the attributes of each weapon. Change projectile types to a degree, the arrow jarate sticky and pipe projectiles only work on the originating gun. I am just learning that you can use custom character models, for custom characters. Same applies for weapons. Again im just starting to get to this point. Since the engine is quake based you have to treat each map as a sorta .pak3/4 file. Using pakrat. It is possible to a degree but i dont think we will see any full on modifications soon. The one thing that i would like to do is add custom attributes, outside of the unlockable attributes.

What i would like to see as a server admin is the ability to fully redesign the hud. The hud is a major limitation in modyfying the game. Whilst it is quite easy to modify. It is done with simple, x,y cooridnates. The problem is getting it client side. But im looking into this as well. There are options to get it past stock. But it does seem a bit limited.

I doubt they will release the code, but there are a few things that would help modifications along. Namely allowing downloading of content besides the map. Because shoving all that info into a map repeatedly gets to be a pain.

So it is possible but documentation is limited. Ive created several of my own weapons, and have changed the models. But its a pain to get them to show client side.

Maybe soon valve will open to more modifications.

Re:How about releasing the code? (1)

icsx (1107185) | more than 4 years ago | (#28361053)

Do you see *any* game developers releasing their engine sourcecodes so shortly after release? It's their product, there is no obligation to release the code. Yes, there are limits what you can do with plugins and mods. However, there are some great games made with these, like zombie panic in which L4D took some ideas. I'm sure Counter-Strike 1.6 sources would be released first but that game is like 7 years old. If any multiplayer Valve game gets their Sourcecode released, that is most likely the one. TF2 is still being actively updated by Valve. It's not going to be "free modded game" anytime soon.

I'd say that Valve is supporting their games currently the most and has the largest community which has many active mappers and mod creators, like Sourcemod which you mentioned. Could you elaborate what you would like to create with Source and why it isn't possible now?

Re:How about releasing the code? (1)

anomnomnomymous (1321267) | more than 4 years ago | (#28363207)

I somehow didn't make myself too clear, but I wasn't meaning the source-code itself, but the source which can be used to make mods.

Re:How about releasing the code? (1)

AstrumPreliator (708436) | more than 4 years ago | (#28361515)

I find it quite strange that TF2 (after a few years), still hasn't released any of their code so people can start properly modding the game. Whereas there's a sortof other way to go about it (by using a plugin, called SourceMod), but using that is still severely limiting the possibilities to what you can do.

They still haven't released the source code for Counter-Strike: Source or Day of Defeat: Source (not to mention the GldSrc games). They're not going to either. Counter-Strike: Source was very modable though. You couldn't add an all new weapon to the game, but through Eventscripts, SourceMod, MetaMod: Source, and Valve Server Plugins you could do a lot. For instance zombie mod was written as a MMS Plugin/VSP, GunGame was written in Eventscripts (which is itself a VSP). I haven't used SourceMod (also a VSP) extensively but I know that has some stuff for it as well.

I'll agree that games running on the Orange Box engine are more restrictive with what you can do using the above, but they're still pretty good. I know there's a zombie gametype called Zombie Fortress written in SourceMod. It's not the greatest one out there and it has bugs, but the game was still changed. Basically Valve is willing to release the source to the game content, but not the source to the game logic. That's not entirely true actually as they do release quite a bit of info which allows things such as Eventscripts to exist, but for the most part that's what happens.

Perhaps with their next major engine update (not like the incremental Orange Box update) they'll add native support for scripting and do a fair bit of the game logic in there as Unreal does with UnrealScript*.

The stats/achievement thing: ...

It's already been bypassed at least a year ago. Or should I say someone figured out how to use the Steam API itself to unlock all achievements. It basically mimics the game telling Steam you got an achievement. You can google it if you want.

*The entire Killing Floor game was written in UnrealScript. Much easier than starting out with something like the Source SDK. To boot you can do interesting mutators right out of the box, unlike Source games which require ES/SM. Of course it may not be as flexible as a full on SDK.

Re:How about releasing the code? (1)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 4 years ago | (#28363701)

>>How about they start to release the code so proper modifications can be made?

Ditto. I wrote CustomTF for the original Team Fortress, and would love to write a CustomTF2, but the tools out there right now aren't really sufficient to my needs.

It's a shame really. Robin used to be a very pro-open source type of guy (if the source for the original TF hadn't been released, it would have been too much work to replicate all their stuff), and Valve is usually pretty good at releasing modable source code, but it's just disappointing that they're not going to do it with TF2 and L4D. I played TF2 for about 10 hours, got bored with the simplistic gameplay, and went back to playing a 10 year old mod again.

Re:How about releasing the code? (1)

MChisholm (1115123) | more than 4 years ago | (#28366071)

Some of my own speculation of why they aren't releasing the mod-source for both TF2 and L4D are: - The stats/achievement thing: I can imagine someone with access to the source would be able to make a certain mod which can fool the stats/achievement system, and as such someone can 'cheat': For myself, I don't put too much pleasure in unlocking them that way, but I can see how people would to cheat with enhancing their E-peen (so imo, a half-valid option). - Afraid of people actually creating new content that can rival their next product: This is especially the case with L4D, whereas I can see that some of the things they're talking about in releasing in L4D2, has been stuff that me and a couple of my mates have been planning to actually do with L4D (but got severely disappointed at not seeing the source released). If this is one of their motivations behind this move... I can only be very disappointed. - Valve considering the HL2-source to be enough to release to the public, as in the end, simply said, TF2 and L4D are only enhanced modifications of the Source-engine. Again, if this would be the case, I severely disagree, as L4D has several components which are fairly unique to that game, but beg to be enhanced/explored in modifications.

I think #2 gets closest to what I consider to be the reason behind this - mods to multiplayer online games such as TF2, L4D and CS:S would fracture the player base.

...and? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28360293)

So how about Epic games (Unreal Engine) who have have had the source content for every level of every game freely available from launch?

doesn't sound like such a big deal from my side of the fence.

Re:...and? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28361463)

Aren't the map files for unreal engine not compiled? I mean its the difference between getting an exe's source file, and something in BASIC. The way the unreal engine was designed, the map and the source of the map are the same thing.

Re:...and? (1)

inio (26835) | more than 4 years ago | (#28368307)

Map files for unreal-engine games contain, among many other things:
* source geometry objects
* compiled BSP tree
* lights
* baked lightmaps
* source of any map-specific scripts
* bytecode-compiled map-specfic scripts

The source data isn't used by the game at runtime (save dynamic lights) but if you point the editor at any shipped map its all there (except 3rd party maps that have been cleaned/obfuscated). The same goes for the UnrealScript source of the engine itself: it's all available in the various .u files along with the bytecode the game actually executes. The only parts of an Unreal game that isn't source-available are the low-level native code bits of the engine: graphics, AI pathfinding, sound, etc.

Nice attempt by Valve... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28362205)

Too bad that this update causes the model browser to crash the Hammer editor (the tool used to make maps) when you try to place props.

It's good that Valve is coming through (1)

Kevin108 (760520) | more than 4 years ago | (#28362409)

for their TF2 customers. Too bad us L4D players have been hung out to dry.
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...