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Microsoft Launches New "Get the Facts" Campaign

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the grease-monkey-vs.-redmond-rhinos dept.

Internet Explorer 524

ko9 writes that Microsoft has re-launched its "'Get the facts' campaign, in an attempt to promote Internet Explorer 8. It contains a chart that compares IE8 to Firefox and Chrome. Needless to say, IE8 comes out as the clear winner, with MS suggesting it is the only browser to provide features like 'privacy,' 'security,' 'reliability.' It even claims to have Firefox beat in 'customizability.'"

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I got the facts ... (5, Funny)

Shome (621324) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387839)

now give me the story!

Re:I got the facts ... (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388017)

"Get the FUD" more like...

Re:I got the facts ... (5, Interesting)

Endo13 (1000782) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388369)

No, it's definitely about getting the facts. Just not all of the facts.

Sure... (0)

Drakkenmensch (1255800) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387841)

It even claims to have Firefox beat in 'customizability.'"

Of course, they only get to that point by sneaking in windows updates into your Firefox addons that cannot be removed short of a massively complicated and obscure fix...

Re:Sure... (5, Funny)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387899)

Actually, the 'customizability' advantage comes from the fact that IE can be quickly customized by third parties, online, in real time and without even needing to notify you.

Re:Sure... (2, Insightful)

darkvad0r (1331303) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388441)

And that customizability can even be applied to the OS !! Without having to click on anything ! Damn ! If only firefox could do that...

It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (5, Funny)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387843)

Sure, Firefox may win in sheer number of add-ons, but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 -- right out of the box.

Those Grapes are Sour ANYWAY!

And nothing is worse than this one:

Web Standards

It's a tie. Internet Explorer 8 passes more of the World Wide Web Consortium's CSS 2.1 test cases than any other browser, but Firefox 3 has more support for some evolving standards.

Did you hear that? Because my head just fucking exploded.

And what the hell does "Manageability" mean? Rate at which the browser is able to be handled or controled? What the hell?! And their little quip for this one:

Neither Firefox nor Chrome provide guidance or enterprise tools. That's just not nice.

You know what's not nice? Having to write in my freaking javascript if(IE){ do tons of fucked up shit } else { everybody else's predictable behavior }. You know what else isn't nice? The scourge of websites that will forever taint the web because you couldn't get your shit together for IE6 and then you let it fester for years.

I am so done with internet explorer in any form. This ridiculous campaign is just here to piss me off. Microsoft has no one to blame but themselves for making me jaded and opposed to any form of IE.

Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (5, Funny)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387953)

aving to write in my freaking javascript if(IE){ do tons of fucked up shit } else { everybody else's predictable behavior }.

We should have started a campaign years ago to change that for:

if(IE){ } else { display page }

Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (5, Funny)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388089)

No.

if (IE) { send_drive_by_download_of_Firefox_with_IE_deleter } else { display page }

what i do... (1)

airdrummer (547536) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388217)

if (IE) { display "sorry, come back when you overcome microserfdum" } else { display page }

Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (4, Interesting)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388249)

It shouldn't be so hard to:

if (IE) {
  hack IE
  Download and install FF with IE skin
  Set Desktop link to point FF
  Set default browser to FF
  Open FF to current page
  Close and uninstall IE
}

Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (1)

Jason Levine (196982) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388365)

Maybe a campaign to get this [caktux.ca] added to pages?

Two words: Active Directory (5, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388031)

And what the hell does "Manageability" mean? Rate at which the browser is able to be handled or controled? What the hell?!

I think "manageability" might have something to do with the IT department's ability to control settings on hundreds or thousands of computers in an Active Directory environment through Group Policy objects. Do Mozilla, Opera, and Google provide analogous tools to manage thousands of installations of Firefox, Opera, or Chrome?

Re:Two words: Active Directory (2, Insightful)

Ritz_Just_Ritz (883997) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388393)

Sure, in a megacorporation or school environment I could see that being a useful feature. The inhabitants of those environments have little choice over their tools and are easy to extort through the neverending licensing/upgrade merry-go-round. Just the sort of vict^H^H^H^Hcustomer that Microsoft is looking for.

For me, I prefer a browser that is actually standards compliant (to the extent possible since the standards are a fast moving target), cross-platform and easier for ME, the end-user, to customize to **MY** liking.

Best,

Re:Two words: Active Directory (2, Informative)

smoker2 (750216) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388427)

Why should 3rd parties have to provide tools to make their product work with a competitors product ? Besides which you can easily have a local repo for your customised Firefox and set them to all get their updates from that.. ( about:config app.update.* )

Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388043)

Manageability is about IE being able to be configured and locked down with Active Directory policies. That is #1 reason why most of the large enterprises won't install Firefox... Lack of being able to actually manage the installed applications.

Re:What do you know... (1)

GreenTech11 (1471589) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388051)

What do you know, it looks like Microsoft use Verizon maths as well

Since the Beta 2 release last spring, SmartScreen filter has blocked over 8 million malware and phishing scams, and projections show that it's on target for over 1 million blocks per day.

It's blocked 8 million, over the course of a year, and is on target for 1 million blocks a day how?

Re:What do you know... (1)

cdrudge (68377) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388385)

I think that was just a poorly worded maintenance. I believe what they are trying to say is that it has blocked 8 million distinct malware and phishing scams, and they are on target to block 1 million attempts to reach one of those 8 million distinct scams a day.

Re:What do you know... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388447)

"and projections show that" is not the same as "therefore"

Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (2, Funny)

Frank Dreben (811036) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388071)

... This ridiculous campaign is just here to piss me off. ...

It's all about you, isn't it?

Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (5, Funny)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388225)

... This ridiculous campaign is just here to piss me off. ...

It's all about you, isn't it?

Well, I don't mean to sound narcissistic but this is how I imagine it happened:

Microsoft Web Admin: It's Friday, I'm bored. Let's do something fun.
Microsoft Web Developer: You want to go down to the gym and practice our aim at throwing chairs.
Microsoft Web Admin: Nah, that's not as fun anymore. Plus all the Stallman effigies are in disrepair.
Microsoft Web Developer: I know! Let's put up another page that makes all the Slashdot users shit themselves again!
Microsoft Web Admin: Oh man, that was pretty funny when we submitted the itsbetterwithwindows [slashdot.org] story and made it sound like that was Asus' idea.
Microsoft Web Developer: Hahaha, yeah, good times. Ok, I'll put something up claiming IE8 superiority. You get ready to post stuff some shill defenses.
Microsoft Web Admin: Oh, god, they're going to have aneurysms, this never gets old!
Microsoft Web Developer: What do you give for the over/under on number of posts?
Microsoft Web Admin: 300
Microsoft Web Developer: I'll put $20 on the over.
Microsoft Web Admin: You're on.

Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388203)

Agreed - as a developer, I'm sick of Microsoft throwing its weight around trying to force the world to accept its standard as THE standard. This just doesn't work in the age of the web! They were sued over it when they tried to publish J++ (their 'Standard' microsoftian Java)... they've been in countless anti-trust lawsuits over IE...

When will they learn? The way to dominate the market isn't to force your own sub-par standards on everyone else - it's to adopt early and adopt often. Be the most compatible and feature-complete and you will be a developer favorite for years to come.

As for IE - I am in agreement with eldavojohn - I will never again use IE for my primary browser. Microsoft did far too much damage with their browser under that name for IE 5 & 6. If Microsoft is such a good marketing company, then why don't they recognize a product that is not salvageable when they see one? If I were in their unfortunate shoes, I'd re-brand and rename IE... give it a nice new coat of paint and call it something new and different... make it sound like its not just IE with a candy coating. Hey - us IT folks would know better, but it might help them win back part of the non-technical market.

Most folks I know, IT or not, have a burning hatred of IE for all the s*** it put them through in its earlier revisions. They will not come back to IE... but they may come back to a Microsoft browser just so long as it doesn't look or feel like IE on the exterior. If Microsoft can't figure this little marketing ploy out then they are even more irrelevant these days than I thought them to be.

Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (1)

Razalhague (1497249) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388353)

J++ (their 'Standard' microsoftian Java)

I can't help but associate that word with Lovecraftian [wiktionary.org] .

Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (2, Interesting)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388285)

And what the hell does "Manageability" mean? Rate at which the browser is able to be handled or controled? What the hell?! And their little quip for this one:

It means that IT cannot control any setting it wants on FF or Chrome. With IE though, I can set IE settings, and the user won't be able to change them.

Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388373)

Customizability

Sure, Firefox may win in sheer number of add-ons, but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 -- right out of the box.

How can it be a customisation if its there right out of the box. customisation means thats its MY CHOICE wether i want that feature or dont want it. If its there right out of the box then, that means that YOU have made that choice for for me and i can't get rid of it.

M$ please STOP making decisions on behalf of ME.

p.s to M$
I really dont like the Choice you made for me by including IE with my Windows installation. How do i remove it?

Web Standards

It's a tie. Internet Explorer 8 passes more of the World Wide Web Consortium's CSS 2.1 test cases than any other browser, but Firefox 3 has more support for some evolving standards.

Did you hear that? Because my head just fucking exploded.

And what the hell does "Manageability" mean? Rate at which the browser is able to be handled or controled? What the hell?! And their little quip for this one:

Neither Firefox nor Chrome provide guidance or enterprise tools. That's just not nice.

You know what's not nice? Having to write in my freaking javascript if(IE){ do tons of fucked up shit } else { everybody else's predictable behavior }. You know what else isn't nice? The scourge of websites that will forever taint the web because you couldn't get your shit together for IE6 and then you let it fester for years.

I am so done with internet explorer in any form. This ridiculous campaign is just here to piss me off. Microsoft has no one to blame but themselves for making me jaded and opposed to any form of IE.

Sure, Firefox may win in sheer number of add-ons, but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 â" right out of the box.

Fact!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28387855)

Microsoft rapes puppies when you use Chrome...FACT!!!

Re:Fact!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388119)

You forgot about killing kittens!

But does it run on linux? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28387861)

I can't find it in the repos.

Re:But does it run on linux? (4, Informative)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388133)

No, but you can run IE6 and IE7 [tatanka.com.br] .

Um... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28387865)

lawl?

Two wrongs... (4, Informative)

Manip (656104) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387871)

While Microsoft's campaign is rubbish, unfortunately Mozilla is no better. [mozilla.com]

Re:Two wrongs... (1)

ElKry (1544795) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387969)

Yeah, but by definition only ONE of them is lying.

Re:Two wrongs... (5, Funny)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388007)

Yes, Mozilla is lying.
They put a tick next to "Compatible with modern Web pages and technologies" for IE.

Re:Two wrongs... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388195)

Maybe In alternative reality telling the truth is considered bad.

Re:Two wrongs... (4, Interesting)

dword (735428) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388247)

Its campaign may be rubbish, but it's working! Also, we have been pounding MS for sticking to IE6 for long enough. Now that they're trying to get users to switch to a better browser (IE8 may not be the best, but it's definitely a lot better than IE6) we pound them again. They may claim what IE8 is better than Firefox/Opera/Safari/Chrome put together, we may hate them for that, but we have to spare a bit of love for the fact that they're finally letting their users know that they can have better than IE6. Now, unless they suddenly stop supporting IE8 and put it in the WGA program, we should be thanking them.

Re:Two wrongs... (5, Insightful)

ko9 (946154) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388267)

Like you, I disagree with these "comparison charts" which let the marketing people cherry pick what options they want to show and completely hide all others. However, an important difference lies between the way these two charts are set up. The items on the chart at Mozilla are actually things that the browsers have or do not have (boolean values if you will), and therefore at least the checkmark is appropriate. On the Microsoft chart, they use the same checkmark system for things that are not 'true' or 'false' at all, like "Security" and "Privacy". They use this to suggests not only that IE is better at these fields, but that the others do not have this feature at all. It's a subtle difference that is very important to how people read the chart.

Re:Two wrongs... (2, Interesting)

tcr (39109) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388339)

Not the best FF advert I've seen.

Having said that, I think it's not desperate and needy like "Okay... how much to use IE8? Ten grand? [microsoft.com] "

It is more customisable (5, Funny)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387873)

With FireFox, only the user can customise the browser. With IE, any remote attacker can as well!

Re:It is more customisable (1)

biryokumaru (822262) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388069)

That's where "customizability" meets "security!"

Re:It is more customisable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388421)

With FireFox, only the user can customise the browser. With IE, any remote attacker can as well!

And thus the point of "More customizable for everyone"

Excelent Microsoft products (4, Insightful)

rbanffy (584143) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387875)

I love my Microsoft keyboard. I love my Microsoft mouse.

I loved their Z-80 Softcard on my Apple II.

It's too bad they insist on making second-rate software. Their hardware is excelent.

Re:Excelent Microsoft products (1)

sjwest (948274) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388029)

Yes I too unfortunately own a mickey mouse microsoft ps2 keyboard complete with retard buttons to play a cd etc, it is disconnected and is my backup keyboard of last resort.

Too bad my o/s does not support ie8, or any prior version of it - time to ring Steve Balmer i think.

Re:Excelent Microsoft products (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388035)

Tell that to my 5th Xbox 360!

Re:Excelent Microsoft products (2, Informative)

drunkennewfiemidget (712572) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388059)

That's because everyone else makes their hardware for them. They just outsource it.

Re:Excelent Microsoft products (5, Funny)

Seriousity (1441391) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388117)

You speak truth, my friend. Several months ago, I begrudgingly bought a Microsoft wireless mouse/keyboard combo, because - get this - it was the only set stocked at The Warehouse (New Zealand's Walmart) that played nicely with linux.

Now, I dual-boot Ubuntu and XP. The pure gold part is that roughly 75% of the time, XP doesn't recognize the hardware at first and I have to piss around replugging the USB cable, pressing the connect button and watching tiny green flashing lights for ten minutes before I can log in. When I boot Ubuntu, it just works.

So it becomes clear, the reason that Microsoft's software is second-rate is that it wasn't made to run on linux.

Re:Excelent Microsoft products:RROD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388123)

You obviously haven't had the unfortunate experience of owning a RROD 360.

Re:Excelent Microsoft products (3, Funny)

smartin (942) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388191)

I agree, I used to have a great Windows lunch bag. I was probably the only Microsoft product I've ever liked.

Re:Excelent Microsoft products (5, Funny)

selven (1556643) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388295)

I pirated my WIndows lunch bag.

Customizability... (5, Funny)

edeloso (665632) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387877)

... you keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:Customizability... (2, Informative)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387957)

If they're figuring customizability based on the number of malicious ActiveX and other BHOs supported, IE8 wins hands-down.

Re:Customizability... (2, Insightful)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388165)

IE8: The only browser with fully-customizable malware!

Get yours at BrowserForTheBetter.com [browserforthebetter.com] !

what a laugh (5, Insightful)

wjh31 (1372867) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387885)

web standards? no browser has given me more greif by completely changing the layout of a page which every other common browsr in every common OS displays perfectly fine. Not to mention all the 'made for IE' pages that look like shit in every other browser.

IE is going to have to work damn hard to get rid of that reputation amoungst developers

Re:what a laugh (4, Interesting)

billcopc (196330) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388227)

The problem is that for every one of us developers that hates IE, there are 10 more developers who know nothing else and think this Firefox thing is some hippie fad, and are very adamant about it. Frontpage and .Net have caused immeasurable damage to the web with their completely broken markup, but if you're the kind of imbecile who knows nothing but Frontpage, your P.O.V. is that all the other browsers suck.

No matter how you slice it, it is always easier to support a single platform, than to support all of them. It just so happens that when you develop "for" Firefox, you're usually closer to that cross-browser goal than had you aimed for IE in the first place. But then once in a while, I'll forget to test my template in IE and sure enough, that's the one that breaks.

Re:what a laugh (1)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388383)

Frontpage and .Net have caused immeasurable damage to the web with their completely broken markup

Please, tell me what broken markup .net server controls emit.

Re:what a laugh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388391)

>The problem is that for every one of us developers that hates IE, there are 10 more developers who know nothing else and think this Firefox thing is some hippie fad, and are very adamant about it.

But they are so very wrong!

Put it this way ... if a complex web page you were making would only render correctly in one standard of one browser or another ... then you would pick Firefox 3.x in order to target the largest market. You would have a far smaller market if you had to pick IE6 or IE7 or especially IE8.

Once you pick Firefox 3.x as your target, you are far more likely to also be compliant with Firefox 2.x and with Firefox 1.x and with Opera and with Safari and with Chrome.

Re:what a laugh (1)

KeX3 (963046) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388263)

IE is going to have to work damn hard to get rid of that reputation amoungst developers

IE doesn't need to get rid of that reputation amongst developers. As long as a majority of the end-users uses IE (hell, one site I worked on recently had more IE6-users that all combined firefox-users), Microsoft doesn't have to care at all, because developers simply have to bend over and make sure it works.

If IE somehow got that reputation among the average joe, on the other hand, then things would probably change.

Re:what a laugh (1)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388401)

If it were as you claimed, you'd have something.

Unfortunately, unless you're actively denying the update, you GOT IE8 if you're on one of their supported OS platforms for it. Period. Full stop.

WHY would they need a marketing campaign to get you to use IE8 if they didn't have a larger population of NON-IE users, hm?

If you can't beat 'em, tie 'em? (3, Interesting)

iCEBaLM (34905) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387889)

It's pretty hilarious on all of the categories which are ties that Microsoft admits the other browsers are better, but then discounts the reasons why because, according to them, it turns out that the category doesn't matter for some reason or another so, it's a TIE!

Just for kicks (4, Insightful)

frodo from middle ea (602941) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387891)

I clicked the "Download Now" button, and I can't find my operating system in there.
Compe up with a native Linux/BSD version Microsoft, and then we will talk.

Re:Just for kicks (1)

rbanffy (584143) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387919)

You really want to ruin your OS, don't you?

To be fair, I used IE4 on Solaris. It was not that bad. And Outlook Express was a good e-mail client for Solaris at that time.

Re:Just for kicks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388091)

The solaris version was actually the windows version running on top of some -very- primitive emulation software. I played with it back in the day, and was getting win32 errors while running on Solaris 6/sparc ...

Re:Just for kicks (1)

M. Baranczak (726671) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388097)

I used IE 4 on the Mac. Yeah, it worked pretty well. And at the time, the only (free) alternative was the absolutely awful Netscape 4, so IE came out looking like a champ.

But that was a long time ago.

Overrun by business managers... (4, Insightful)

tgatliff (311583) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387911)

No doubt MS is overrun by business managers, which I am sure is most of their problems. To a business person, the product is the after thought, but the marketing is the most important thing. IE does not have problems because of poor marketing. It has problems because of of countless security issues with the code itself that have in the past left machines very vulnerable to malicious attempts. Any technology person can tell you this, but I bet this will not be presented as a "fact" on their marketing campaign...

Hrmm (4, Funny)

acehole (174372) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387917)

They seemed to take out a couple of categories from the original chart.

* Browser most likely to cause the user to pull out hair - IE8
* Browser able to download viruses and malware the fastest - IE8
* Browser able to crash and take your whole OS down faster than a $2 hooker - IE8

The facts from Microsoft's point of view. (5, Insightful)

mysidia (191772) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387925)

They're using the definition of fact that says: "fact : a statement accepted as true as the basis for argument or inference "

The catch is, it's biased people at MS who "accept it as true" on the "basis for [inherently flawwed] argument or inference"

Microsoft is becoming infamous for these bogus get the "facts" campaigns, which are really marketing attempts to use Microsoft's truth to distort common belief, replacing the facts with MS' contrived point of view.

Re:The facts from Microsoft's point of view. (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388209)

They're a bit late when you take into account all the other people that have been doing the same thing for the last 8 years.

IE8 and sharepoint (1)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387927)

At some place, I use firefox and have to use IE7 for one single purpose: sharepoint. I installed IE8 once, and guess what, explorer view in sharepoint didn't work in IE8, only in IE7. So I had to install IE7 again. Conclusion: IE8 is useless. What a waste of time and energy to launch a campaign about that.

IE8 and vista (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388049)

I had to uninstall IE8 from vista because it screwed up folder views for all of Vista. For some weird reason, on some systems, IE8 causes every folder to be opened in a new window. The only fix at the time was to go back to IE7. Pretty sad when upgrading a browser downgrades your OS.

Re:IE8 and sharepoint (0, Flamebait)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388409)

Conclusion: You're an idiot. All you had to do was hit the Compatibility View, and you'd be fine. IE8 includes IE7s rendering engine.

"customizability" == "proprietary extensions" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28387975)

"Get the FUD" is more accurate.

Re:"customizability" == "proprietary extensions" (1)

HBI (604924) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388115)

I'm more inclined to say "get the bullshit". Box your ears, more Microsoft lies coming down the pipe from marketing.

I have to admit that they have recognized this: note that they aren't associating Bing with themselves. No one with half a brain trusts Microsoft's words, or the corporation itself.

Re:"customizability" == "proprietary extensions" (1)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388437)

Really? So the MSN link isn't a tipoff, nor is the (C) 2009 Microsoft at the bottom, in plain view?

Audience is Microsoft employees. (5, Insightful)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 5 years ago | (#28387987)

Looks like this campaign is not even aimed at the market. Microsoft announced a lay off. It appears they are not culling the employees by performance and competence. They seem to be lopping off whole programs and letting everyone go in those programs and all the lucky ones who happen to be in the rest will continue employment en masse. This leads to low employee morale as the IE team people go, "my job depends not on my performannce but the kind of contacts my manager has with the higher ups and how well my team's output is doing in the marketplace. IE is steadily losing marketshare. Europe is going to unbundle IE and there will be a push to get IE less Windows in USA too. What is going to happen to my job? Should I bail out?". So the IE Team VP gets the higher ups to show some signs that his reportees will not be left high and dry. Just a product of internal turf war, empire building and palace intrigue within that large bureaucracy. Nothing much to see here. Move along.

IE8 performance? (1, Offtopic)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388021)

Ok, so this may be a single case. But I once made an interesting animation using nothing but html, css and javascript (flash to play back an mp3). It worked perfectly on all browsers (firefox, chrome, opera, safari, msie 6 and msie 7). But it quite broken in MSIE8, the performance is absolutely terrible on my laptop (which is the only machine I installed IE8 on) which wasn't the case before. The animation contains movement of animating gifs, in IE8 they don't animate properly.

The site in question: http://www.idleballad.com/ [idleballad.com]

Re:IE8 performance? (1)

TomHandy (578620) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388265)

Seems to run fine enough for me on my desktop - looking at it in both IE8 and Firefox 3, it seems perhaps slightly choppier (the bit with the quarters rolling through) compared to Firefox, but not dramatically worse.

Re:IE8 performance? (1)

ElKry (1544795) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388459)

I tried to open it with my firefox. What I got was:

"This websites requires Flash and JavaScript to be enabled. If your browser does not support both of these then simply continue to IdleThumbs"

and 6 scripts blocked by NoScript. Then I tried IE8, and I must say, the Firefox version was MUCH faster. Firefox is obviously vastly superior in the speed department.

Broken metrics. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388025)

One wouldn't need such malware protection if they didn't run windows.

Don't know what privacy victories you get to win when so many addons get behind the filter.

Compatibility, that is a metric they win solely on being able to define the playing field. activex and such shouldn't be a metric used. Further the non standards they forced on web developers for previous versions of IE also defined a playing field that no one else wanted to use.

Using copy that says "Thats just not nice" when speaking of enterprise tools is just showing how much the copy editors where gagging on the points they had to convey.

Translation (1)

jaxxa (1580613) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388045)

"Sure, Firefox may win in sheer number of add-ons, but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 right out of the box." Translation: Has a bunch of stuff you don't want or use.

Re:Translation (4, Interesting)

owlnation (858981) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388307)

"but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 right out of the box."

I think they don't get it. And to be honest Mozilla no longer does too. Customization is great. It is (well, was) the great thing about Firefox. Once you start packing a whole load of features into the basic browser you are losing all that flexibility. That's what add-ons are for, giving the user choice, while keeping the basic browser fast and effective.

I'm not using IE8 this side of Hell freezing over. However, I do appreciate upping the ante and offering competition.

Mozilla sat on their asses in terms of efficiency and effectiveness, while they stuff the basic browser full of crap in the same way they destroyed Netscape. That's the one good thing about IE8 it kicks Mozilla up the ass.

Now maybe Mozilla can start working harder on memory leaks, multi-threading, making Firefox not suck on a Mac, and getting rid of needless bloat like the Awesome bar.

Re:Translation (2, Interesting)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388465)

And yet when a Linux distro includes everything but the kitchen sink, that's helpful.

Where is Opera? (1)

dimethylxanthine (946092) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388047)

So by ms standards Opera isn't even a browser. Or maybe they just didn't know how to tame that gaping margin on the right so they could fit a fifth column in there... But I bet now that they have support for CSS (or so they claim) it won't be long until they figure this one out...

No sorry (1)

ammit (1485755) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388083)

FAIL

Javascript (5, Interesting)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388085)

I use a program called SpiceWorks [spiceworks.com] to monitor the network, run the helpdesk etc which makes heavy use of interactive content.

I notice that the very last item is about performance.

I can load up the entire inventory of my network in around 3 seconds in Chrome and Opera. It takes 11 seconds in IE8.

Not fast at all.

"Ease of Use" (4, Insightful)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388087)

Features like Accelerators, Web Slices and Visual Search Suggestions make Internet Explorer 8 easiest to use.

I have absolutely no idea what those things are, or for that matter where in IE8 you can find them.

Re:"Ease of Use" (1)

wjousts (1529427) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388213)

Have you used IE8? Because they aren't that hard to find. I still prefer Firefox though because I couldn't find a good, free equivalent to my favorite Firefox extension DownloadThemAll!

Double Blind (3, Interesting)

Demonantis (1340557) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388101)

Why is this even being discussed. Its obviously PR. If you wanted a serious comparison go look on google for one. Honestly you don't trust the sales man to give you the best price on your car. You know he is going to fleece you. Its the same thing here.

Use of quotes (5, Funny)

WaRrK (807996) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388129)

Microsoft Launches New "Get the Facts" Campaign

'Microsoft Launches New Get the "Facts" Campaign' There, fixed that for you....

Even if this were true... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388131)

I'd still have to run Windows to use it. That's not an option (cost, usefulness problems, etc).

Port IE8 to Linux, or Mac OSX and I might consider using it.

Oh, right, IE8 is a Windows only application. It's also closed source and highly tied to an expensive and ineffective bloaty piece of shit OS. Clear winner my ass.

I don't get it... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388149)

Fact: Internet Exploiter is PART OF THE USER INTERFACE of every windows operating system since 95.

Fact: You can't uninstall IE without effecting your core operating system functionality. (Windows updates, programs that use IE's rendering engine for their own user interface - antivirus software, I'm looking at you!)

Fact: A VAST majority of Windows users have automatic updates enabled by default and will receive IE8 whether they like it or not (and they probably won't care anyway, as most users couldn't even tell you what version of IE they're running in the first place.)

Fact: Internet Exploiter has nearly always been, is currently and will always be the most used browser on Windows platforms. Yes, suck it up FF/O/Etc fans. We will gain market share, but when you're aftermarket and not OEM, people generally don't care. How many people change the stereo in their car? Sure. You can get an awesome stereo to replace the factory one, but if the factory one functions correctly and lets you listen to music, then why change?

I have worked in IT for over 10 years in the frontline. I'm tech support at a retail store, so my customers are the general public. We load FF on every PC that comes in and encourage our customers to use it. We load IE8 on every clean install of Windows we do because, and here's a really important point, that's the only safe time to upgrade IE without having the OS get screwed over. When IE8 first became a "Critical Windows update" and customers were installing it, we were inundated with fxxked computers that lost network connectivity, or crashed, or ran dog slow.

Hell, I recommend customers use OpenOfficeOrg instead of forking money out for Office.

And you can blabber on about developers. I do some web developing myself and I adhere to the W3C standards - NOT Microsoft standards. But the END USER doesn't care. If the page works fine, then whoopedy-doo! If they run FF/O/etc and the page doesn't work, where do they go? Do they send emails to the website? Do they complain to the W3C? Do they send mail to Firefox? No. They click the shiny (e) icon and try it there. Then what? Most users will continue their browsing experience in IE. Why switch back and forth between 2 browsers? End users see that as redundant.

This may be a little off-topic, but how about an "Only works with IE" blacklist website where IExclusive (hehe, I just came up with that LOL) websites are NAMED AND SHAMED. Then promote the shit out of the site. Maybe developers who cater only to Microsoft's needs would think twice about firing up Fro... Front.... Frontpa.... damnit, I can't say it.

Re:I don't get it... (1)

therufus (677843) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388179)

And next time I might even login before posting.

Duh!

A better campaign for IE8... (3, Funny)

wjousts (1529427) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388181)

We'll hide your porn.

Did you notice the browsers they used? (5, Insightful)

rrossman2 (844318) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388197)

Tested products include:

Apple Safari v3

Google Chrome 1.0.154

Microsoft Internet Explorer v8 (RC1)

Microsoft Internet Explorer v7

Mozilla Firefox v3.07

Opera 9.64

So they compare a Release Candidate vs "older browsers"?

Safari is at version 4 as a regular release, not sure about any beta's or RC's...

I'm using Chrome 2.0.172.31 right now to post this

Firefox is at 3.5 for a Beta (Or RC by now..)

Opera is at 10 for a Beta

They should have done apples to apples. When the IE8 RC was out, so was pre-releases of FF 3.5, Opera 10, as well as Safari and Chrome in more updated versions than they used.

Microsoft going the way of Motorola (2, Insightful)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388233)

This looks like the same thing that happened when Motorola started hemorrhaging. There were to many middle managers and they were all trying to save their jobs so they did what ever they could to look like they were doing something even if it was not value added or looked ridiculous in the marketplace. If this is not a fine example of that nothing is.

Who is the target audience? (2, Interesting)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388237)

Who are they aiming at here? Certainly not this group. Definitely not developers. Anyone in IT is going to get a good laugh. It's just surreal.

It's like this ad campaign was designed when the execs were baked. It sounded good in the hot tub but when reality strikes, they discover that planning ad campaigns when you're high is a really bad idea.

If there's some super sekret ad strategy at work here I'd sure like to know what it is, because it's hard to see it as anything but a massive waste of time and money. I don't think most people even care and it reminds the development community how much they hate IE.

Only three browsers?! What about Safari and Opera? (1)

jskoda (1579933) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388277)

How come Safari and Opera got left off the list? I know the Redmond answer already: they aren't popular enough and therefore aren't something a user would be interested in. Perhaps they aren't listed because they would skew the results away from IE8. Even if the results weren't skewed, leaving out other browsers leaves the door open for people to speculate why those browsers were left off the list. Isn't Microsoft bribing people to use IE8 with that $10,000 scavenger hunt thing? I can see the scripting now... if (IE8) { runScam(noobUser); } else { showPage(); }

Web Standards???? (1)

Goosgoonies (1580627) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388313)

Rule #1: If you want to talk about how great your browser is, make sure the relevant pages pass the validator [w3.org] .

Hmmm. (3, Interesting)

apodyopsis (1048476) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388317)

My first thought was to laugh myself silly with a touch of indignant rage.

But actually I take this a bit more seriously.. There is a well known phenomenon (that I am sure somebody else knows the name of) where people tend to believe what they read and we are not the target audience of this advertising tripe. Many people who will read this (and do not know better) will believe it and follow it and pass it on. And that irritates mes.

In this fraternity we all sit back and mock the ridiculous claims and statement in their FUD and sales - but at the end of the day they are quietly winning the war with one ill educated person swayed towards their cause after another.

I sure have no answers, but I do not feel like mocking this kind of crap anymore.

At work I use FF - but I am forced to use IE for the corporate portal because apparently only IE can possibly work on the portal, so they paid somebody to edit the script to reject all "non-approved" browsers. That is the end result of ill informed high up decisions based on fluff like this.

Speed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28388357)

How do they get off saying IE is the same speed... It's slower then Vista...

Lies, Damned Lies, and Advertising (3, Insightful)

atfrase (879806) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388359)

As lame as this clearly is, I can't really fault Microsoft entirely; I think this is just a product of the deteriorating state of advertising and marketing in general.

Time was, you only had to take an advertiser's claims with one grain of salt, but in the last few decades it seems like there's been a kind of hyper-inflation; now, you can't even read an advertisement critically to filter the hyperbole and extract some useful information, because there isn't any left. After years of being unabashedly lied to by advertisers, we now have no choice but to assume that all advertising is pure, unadulterated lies.

It's a little sad; it only took a few companies abusing the consumers' trust to ruin it for everyone.

Can we come up with coherent rebuttals? (3, Interesting)

selven (1556643) | more than 5 years ago | (#28388381)

Can we come up with some intelligent, thought-out responses against this? I'm picturing myself in the shoes of a non-anti-Microsoft zealot and I'm seeing nothing more than "Microsoft sucks because it does" here.
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