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The Worst US Cities To Work In IT

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the hmm-if-atlanta's-on-the-good-list dept.

Businesses 538

bdcny7927 writes with an excerpt from CIO.com to inspire some caution before your next job switch: "IT workers have their choice of many great US cities for work and play (Atlanta, Chicago, Seattle), but what are the cities that you probably should avoid? Here's a very unscientific, highly subjective and unapologetically snarky list of our least favorite US tech job locales."

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538 comments

Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (5, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440109)

Okay, I don't really believe that. I just always wanted to see what that sentence looked like in print.

Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (2, Insightful)

Skreems (598317) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440129)

I was surprised to see Atlanta on the "good" list myself.

Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440793)

"I was surprised to see Atlanta on the "good" list myself."

Well, out of the top '3' they listed, I'd have to pick it.

I couldn't live with the weather they get up there in the northern cities in the US. WAY too freakin' cold for me too long out of the year.

Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (5, Funny)

Jake Griffin (1153451) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440139)

Wow... I'm from Detroit and I laughed so hard when I read that. When people ask me what I thought about my time there I always tell them that "Detroit is a great place to be" then pause a minute and add "from."

Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440161)

I used to love driving around Belle Isle at night watching the police trolling the Detroit River for headless torsos...

Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (1)

stillpixel (1575443) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440209)

If you believe all the Tim Allen narrated Michigan commercials on TV lately you'd think Michigan is the best place on Earth.. but then I saw the GM building at the end of the commercial and had to give a Homer Simpson "DOH!" I worked in Sacramento / Folsom , CA and now in the D.C. / Baltimore area all in all about the same, but you always have low ball employers out there who will overwork you for slave pay.

Re:Come on, Detroit isn't that bad. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440397)

My reaction has always been that any place that needs to advertise that it is a good place to work/live/start a business is probably a horrible place to work/live/start a business

Urban jungles (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440143)

I've never seen one proper city that didn't feel like a very suffocating place, full of busy little bees who have no idea what it is to take the time to smell the roses. I could never live in one. Any ideas about which suburban or rural areas are good/bad to work in for IT jobs?

Re:Urban jungles (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440501)

The Austin/Round Rock area is nice. It's growing fast, but your still never more than a few minutes away from a field of cattle. They're also building big assed roads out here, without the traffic to fill them yet. Seriously, the DOT budget here must be _insane_.

Re:Urban jungles (1, Flamebait)

wjousts (1529427) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440689)

I've never seen a rural area that isn't mind-numbingly boring, has nothing going on and smells faintly of shit. I could never live in one.

Re:Urban jungles (5, Insightful)

mh1997 (1065630) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440707)

Any ideas about which suburban or rural areas are good...to work in for IT jobs?

Yes, but I won't tell at the risk of turning it into

a very suffocating place, full of busy little bees who have no idea what it is to take the time to smell the roses

Re:Urban jungles (1)

mdarksbane (587589) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440765)

If you don't mind the liberal guilt over contributing to modern sprawl, Columbus isn't bad. The industries available are somewhat limited though (a few interesting startups, but a *lot* of medical and insurance as well.

But Columbus works fairly well because some of the tech centers have arisen in the upper class suburbs in addition to the old downtown. That means that if you pick one of the major freeways out and drive 5-10 minutes, you're far enough into the middle of nowhere to have cows for neighbors. Unfortunately it means you're also a fair drive from any of the traditionally interesting things to do in town, but it's working fairly well for me in general.

But I get the impression you can find that sort of situation in most mid-major cities (Columbus, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Pittsburgh) in the "flyover" states.

Another option you might consider is military contracting. There's a fair amount of IT work that goes into keeping the different military bases and training centers running, and most of those are (for obvious reasons) out in the middle of nowhere. Huntsville, AL, Fairborn, OH, those sorts of places. Might not be as much dev work on site but there is plenty of IT stuff.

No way (5, Insightful)

Stargoat (658863) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440149)

I wish I would be transferred to Alaska. The hunting and fishing is great. There is room to breath. A man can raise a family in a manner more suitable to the American ideal. The commutes cannot be any worse than the suburbs of any major US city.

Sign me up!

Re:No way (4, Informative)

causality (777677) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440271)

I wish I would be transferred to Alaska. The hunting and fishing is great. There is room to breath. A man can raise a family in a manner more suitable to the American ideal. The commutes cannot be any worse than the suburbs of any major US city. Sign me up!

I hope you already have a family going then, because Alaska has a terribly unfavorable male-to-female ratio. Unfavorable if you're a man, that is. Otherwise I do agree with you.

Re:No way (4, Interesting)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440277)

Plus you get paid to live there by the Federal government. Of course, night life is somewhat limited and then there's always the Sarah Palin thing.

The mistake this article makes it the classic one of assuming that IT folks (a) all want the same sort of things from life and (b) need to live within commuting distance of work. In reality, we cover the spectrum pretty well from TINKs to nuclear family members to shit-crazy Unibomber types to living in our mothers' basements.

My fondest hope is to eventually work myself to a point where I can telecommute regularly and just live within an hour or two of a significant airport (aka, I need to be valuable enough to get away with this).

Re:No way (1)

JCSoRocks (1142053) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440773)

No nightlife!? During the summer it's light outside nearly 24 hours a day. You could play outside for 24 hours and barely notice. There are summer solstice parties and such. During the winter you can enjoy additional night hours for those nocturnal activities (e.g. insert your favorite nighttime shenanigans here). It also gives you an excuse to stay in your basement - it's dark and cold outside.

Also, your signature is awesome.

Re:No way (4, Informative)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440903)

Uhm, no.

Alaska has a ton of oil and very few people. The Alaska Permanent Fund is an endowment created by the state government that sets aside approximately 25% of the state's proceeds from mineral sales.

The dividends from this endowment are then divvied up and paid to the people living in the state.

Re:No way (0, Troll)

demachina (71715) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440421)

Two words.... "Sarah Palin".

P.S.

This has to be one of the lamest /. submissions of the month.

Re:No way (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440733)

"This has to be one of the lamest /. submissions of the month."

I think the C64 vs the iPhone is worse.

Re:No way (1)

KermodeBear (738243) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440585)

I agree. I would love to move to Alaska. Any Alaskan companies looking for an experienced LAMP developer? I scan the job sites on a regular basis but haven't found any appropriate opportunities.

Already done (2, Informative)

TFer_Atvar (857303) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440665)

I live here, and I've got a friend who works for SourceForge ... I'm not sure in what capacity, though. There's definitely a demand for people with technical skills. There's also ample opportunities for infrastructure development if you're interested in the hardware side of things. The state is working pretty hard to improve broadband access (http://www.newsminer.com/news/2009/jun/21/fairbanks-representative-hopes-highlight-lack-alas/ and http://www.newsminer.com/news/2009/mar/16/internet-companies-hope-stimulus-boon-bush/ [newsminer.com]).

The complete list (5, Informative)

Whatsisname (891214) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440187)

The list for people that don't like slideshows:

        1. Detroit, Mich. - Jobs available: 449
        2. Bentonville, Ark. - Jobs available: 81
        3. Cleveland, Ohio - Jobs available: 211
        4. Syracuse, N.Y. - Jobs available: 49
        5. Tie: Boston, Mass., and San Francisco, Calif.
        6. Anytown in Alaska - Jobs available: 24
        7. Orlando, Fla. - Jobs available: 235
   

Re:The complete list (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440253)

Karma karma karma karma karma ka-karma whore...

Re:The complete list (1)

lorenlal (164133) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440275)

As a worker in the top worst city of them all:

449 jobs? That's got to be a lie unless they're including the entire metro area. Also - those open positions are usually listed as open because someone's trying to hold onto the position so it gets cut instead of a human. I know this because:
1) That's how my area "laid off" someone.
2) I know plenty of people who have applied for some of these and received a lovely letter saying, "This position has been 'canceled.'"

I'd also wager that many of the filings were posted before the bankruptcy filings, and were vacated because people who could move... did.

Re:The complete list (4, Interesting)

jimbobborg (128330) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440315)

I find it funny that Boston is on both the best and worst list.

Re:The complete list (4, Insightful)

garcia (6573) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440503)

I find it funny that Boston is on both the best and worst list.

I recently was in Boston for the first time on business. I thought it was a great city as there was plenty of good food and night life as well as viable mass transit. Unfortunately there were the downsides too. I thought the city was "old" and "dirtier" than what I am accustomed to in Minneapolis and I definitely didn't feel terribly safe wandering around by myself at night. Would I live there compared to Minneapolis? Probably not but do I see why it's on both the best and the worst, yes.

Re:The complete list (4, Informative)

paazin (719486) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440837)

I thought the city was "old" [...]

Well, considering that it's one of the oldest cities in the US, not a really big surprise.

[...] "dirtier" than what I am accustomed to in Minneapolis and I definitely didn't feel terribly safe wandering around by myself at night.

Like most places, depends on where you are. Some sections of the Boston Metro area are pretty bad (Roxbury, I'm looking at you) but even in some of the "dingy" areas of the city (where many of the university students live) are actually quite safe and have a good amount of interesting culture and unique qualities you wouldn't find in the midwest or many other US cities.

Re:The complete list (1)

Jason Levine (196982) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440629)

I find it funny that they think the Bay area's lack of a major sports championship counts against them but then, in the same sentence, count Boston's championships as negatives as well. Is a sports championship a positive or a negative? It can be either one or neither, but it can't be both!

Re:The complete list (1)

zzsmirkzz (974536) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440697)

I guess it depends on how you look at it, and they didn't want to stick with one view-point. I was more curious to where the positive correlation between professional sports and and IT jobs this article implies comes from, it sure as hell doesn't make any sense to me.

Re:The complete list (2, Interesting)

the phantom (107624) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440879)

Too little water and you die of dehydration. Too much water, and you drown. Is water a good thing or a bad thing?

Perhaps the implication is that a city needs to have the occasional professional sports championship in order to be a good place to live, but that if it racks up too many championships, it becomes unlivable again. I have far less trouble with this assertion than I do with understanding why professional sports matter at all vis-a-vis the quality of a work location.

Re:The complete list (1)

taxman_10m (41083) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440887)

I didn't understand that either. But one thing I'd mention is that Red Sox games make public transportation (green line) grind to a halt. Can't recall that being much of a problem though with our other sports franchises.

Silicon Valley too (sort of) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440667)

San Fran is close enough to San Jose.

Re:The complete list (1)

darjen (879890) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440641)

I lived in Cleveland for several years. It's not that bad as long as you avoid about 50% of the city.

Re:The complete list (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440807)

Syracuse is a great place to live and work. Violent crime is very low, great houses are cheap, and there's a ton of both work and money if you're willing to start your own business.

Whine all you like, but how many of you can get up at 9am, make some breakfast, have some coffee, play with the dog, work until 4pm, then do whatever you feel like until midnight, all with no debt, no worries and vacations whever you want? Also, FWIW, the snow in Syracuse isn't all that bad while SCUBA diving in the Caribbean.

Jobs suck everywhere. Owning your own business is the greatest thing since the invention of fun, food and sex.

Southern Utah.... (4, Informative)

gandhi_2 (1108023) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440205)

Where a BS in CS or CIT makes 9 bucks an hour and an illegal migrant housing framer makes 30.

Re:Southern Utah.... (1)

eln (21727) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440543)

In my experience, IT pay sucks throughout the state of Utah, even in Salt Lake. Not sure why that is, but it kept me from settling there, even though I really like the city: Any city will start to suck if you're broke all the time.

Re:Southern Utah.... (1)

Chabo (880571) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440797)

That brings up a question for me: this article talks about "IT", but are they counting the entire computer industry, including engineers and developers, or are do they mean actual IT jobs, like sysadmins and DBadmins?

Best City: Holland, Michigan. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440221)

Lots of bath houses and gay bars, plenty of well hung young studs, and of course, the geek compound. It's a linux version of heaven on earth.

Highly subjective is right. (4, Informative)

ageoffri (723674) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440241)

I'd gladly take a position in Alaska. Wide open land with relatively few people. No overbearing State government that can't balance the budget, not much of an immigration problem up there either. Thanks to the oil revenues residents get checks from the State. About the only thing I would miss is being able to take the t-tops off on my Z28 even occasionally in the winter and pretty much all summer long.

If I had to name a State as worst State it would be California. Land of tax and spend with no fiscal restraint, holder of first county to declare bankruptcy and likely first State to go bankrupt. Of course the single biggest reason to avoid California for me is that about 3/4 of my firearms are unconstitutionally deemed illegal by the State.

Re:Highly subjective is right. (1)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440353)

Wide open land with relatively few people.

Don't forget the hordes of fearsome of mosquitoes.

Re:Highly subjective is right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440533)

"Tax and spend" is an often flung criticism by republican voters, but what do you describe what Raygun, Bush the 1st and Bush the second all did. Atleast "Tax and Spend" democrats try to balance their budget (Obama aside, who has no chance of both keeping the economy from going straight to hell AND balancing the budget in the short term). Republicans just run around with daddy's (gov) credit card and line the pockets of their buddies with it.

"Tax and Spend" is better than "Drunken Sailor with a No-limit Credit Card"

Re:Highly subjective is right. (1)

JCSoRocks (1142053) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440885)

I dunno why you have to bring political parties into it. Tax and spend is absolute garbage regardless of your party. Oregon is primarily a democratic state and they just train wrecked themselves - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124545298617532789.html [wsj.com]

Good job Oregon government. Way to help out your citizens by jacking up taxes and chasing away businesses rather than cutting back on government crap. We're in a recession. Citizens have no money because they have no jobs. That means the state government gets less money. That means government should also get to spend less money, but in fact it usually means they just invent new taxes.

Re:Highly subjective is right. (2, Informative)

Rolgar (556636) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440891)

At what point did Reagan or Bush Sr. have a Congress friendly to spending cuts? Answer, never. The House of Representatives was majority Democrats all 12 years they were in office, and the Senate for 6. Even then, it's very difficult for any democratic government to actually cut taxes, because of the people who would lose 'their' job, and complaining from the vocal constituents who feel entitled for the outrageous handouts the government gives. We should have it be mandatory that all departments (other than Defense and Revenue) should have their existence be re-approved every 4 years, one year after the election. Make the departments justify their existence for the funds spent. (Maybe it's a bad idea, and we'll certainly never see it happen, but at least it would be a change, right?)

Re:Highly subjective is right. (1)

ari_j (90255) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440595)

California would be the perfect state if not for all the Californians. It has just about every type of terrain and climate you could ask for ... but too many Californians passing too many Californian laws.

Re:Highly subjective is right. (1)

TFer_Atvar (857303) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440695)

Well, I laughed that they chose Anchorage as their example for "anytown (sic) in Alaska". The saying around here is that the best thing about Anchorage is that you can drive to Alaska from there.

Re:Highly subjective is right. (3, Insightful)

eln (21727) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440729)

California's problem is not all the "tax and spend liberals", it's that it has the most boneheaded system of government ever devised. It's Constitution is huge and unwieldy, and can be changed by a simple majority vote. Its government can't do anything like raise taxes or cut spending to balance the budget because the referendum system blocks them from doing anything that's unpopular with 51% of the voters.

California is a great study in why populist democracy is a lousy way to run a huge and complex state.

Re:Highly subjective is right. (1)

wjousts (1529427) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440761)

I'd gladly take a position in Alaska. Wide open land with relatively few people. No overbearing State government that can't balance the budget, not much of an immigration problem up there either.

What about all those Russians that Sarah Palin so bravely keeps us safe from?

Re:Highly subjective is right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440763)

I'd gladly take a position in Alaska. Wide open land with relatively few people. No overbearing State government that can't balance the budget, not much of an immigration problem up there either. Thanks to the oil revenues residents get checks from the State. About the only thing I would miss is being able to take the t-tops off on my Z28 even occasionally in the winter and pretty much all summer long.

I'm guessing you've never driven a rear wheel drive car in the snow. Don't. Then there's all the salt on the roads.

My experience is from Maine, but I can't imagine Alaska would be any friendlier to nice cars. You could trade it for a really nice snowmobile though :)

What? (5, Insightful)

qoncept (599709) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440307)

What a worthless list. What did anything they talked about have anything to do with IT?

Re:What? (3, Funny)

oodaloop (1229816) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440441)

You mean besides the sports teams? What geek doesn't pick the city in which he wants to live based on how their sports teams are doing there?

Re:What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440605)

Nothing, but it would have required time and effort for CIO.com to produce an informative article. Instead it was a lot easier to slap together a list of down-on-their-luck cities, throw in a couple surprises for shock value, apologize in advance for it being "subjective", throw some ads on the pages, and publish.

Re:What? (4, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440609)

What a worthless list. What did anything they talked about have anything to do with IT?

Totally. I want to know which cities have the best (fastest/cheapest/least-restrictive) broadband to the home and have good/free muni-wifi. Which ones have a Fry's or the like, which ones are in states with low/no sales tax and/or don't try to impose "use tax" for mail-ordered toys. Which states don't require fingerprints to get a driver's license. Which cities have a "university culture." Which ones have cheap electricity for the server farm in my basement.

Those sorts of things are a lot more specific to IT people than the weather and sports franchises.

Detroit has Compuware (1)

javacowboy (222023) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440317)

I used to work for Compuware (Detroit based), but this was at the Montreal office and I never had to travel to the head office. Still, this is an example of an IT company that's based out of Detroit. They sell software and consulting, and I think they got started by providing IT consulting to GM.

Re:Detroit has Compuware (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440861)

I think they got started by providing IT consulting to GM.

No, they didn't. Prior to about 2004, they had a sole source of IT consulting going back to the 1980s: EDS.

umm DC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440319)

Okay considering the highly biased source, CIO feeds my PHB's delusions of grandeur and our waste bin, it is not surprising to see that DC missed the list. Personally I'd rather deal with Moose than the crime, both lobbyists and drug dealers or 115" of snow rather than the humidity in DC.

Re:umm DC (1)

jimbobborg (128330) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440387)

DC was on the list of Best Places, as there are a LOT of IT jobs in the area. I'd personally love to move to Alaska, but not until after my daughter graduates from college and/or I get married again.

Re:umm DC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440611)

I'd personally love to move to Alaska, but not until after my daughter graduates from college and/or I get married again.

This is /. There is absolutely no way you could have a daughter, because you've never had sex (unless it was paid?), and you were never married.

Re:umm DC (1)

PhoenixFlare (319467) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440783)

DC was on the list of Best Places, as there are a LOT of IT jobs in the area.

Jobs may be plentiful, but the living costs suck. I live in Northern VA at the moment, but planning to GTFO as soon as my lease is up - looking forward to owning a house for less than what it takes to rent a 1.5 bedroom condo here.

Alaska is nice - if you can keep a job (5, Insightful)

heffy (1583469) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440337)

I wouldn't mind working in Alaska - lots of fresh seafood, cheap real estate, small town feel - if I can be sure my job is secure. Just like working in IT in some small midwest town, there aren't many options for switching jobs if you need to switch. How many large companies are hiring if you're an Oracle DBA in Alaska?

That's the beauty of Silicon Valley. I can work at a company for a few years and move to another, similarly-sized company at a higher position without much hesitation or worry. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of small companies looking at hiring IT folks. That kind of job security is what makes California much more appealing than a smaller city.

Funny to say the least. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440359)

As an IT professional in Orlando #7 on the list, I can say there are plenty of IT jobs here, just maybe not at this very moment. Housing is cheap, temp is HOT HOT, and the pay scale for IT who knows their shit is high. That's why I moved here a few years ago, to get paid what I'm worth and spend less to live. Viva la Florida!

Re:Funny to say the least. (1)

downix (84795) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440607)

I'm an IT professional on the I4 corridor as well. To say this is a good spot is lying through your teeth. The infastructure to support IT is woeful, network disruptions commonplace, and the structure needed to work is aging to the point of obsolescence. In short, IT in Florida is a joke. Professionals which would be paid $35/hr in any area of the country get paid $9/hr here.

San Francisco (3, Insightful)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440439)

I love that San Francisco made the list -- I was just thinking last night about how I love everything about San Francisco except for the idea of living there. I'll take the Oakland hills any day and twice on Tuesday.

I'm starting to wonder about California overall. The entire state is slowly sliding downhill (and not in a earthquake-into-the-ocean sense) thanks largely to the proposition system where any shitheaded idea can be made law by a simple majority vote -- I mean, if you ever need evidence that direct democracy is a terrible idea, look no further than CA.

Institutionalized gay bashing? Check. Costly mandates we have no way to pay for? Check. And then there's my personal favorite, a short-sighted effort to limit property taxes whose only real effect is to hurt younger people just starting out and drive the schools into the shitter? You know it.

I mean, maybe having worked with users for all these years, it's a little more obvious to me that people are (by and large) stupid assholes, but I feel there's enough evidence to convince any reasonable person at this point. Which is why we still have the proposition, I suppose.

Re:San Francisco (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440893)

I love that San Francisco made the list -- I was just thinking last night about how I love everything about San Francisco except for the idea of living there. I'll take the Oakland hills any day and twice on Tuesday.

Then you're stuck driving everywhere like a lame donkey. The automobile-required lifestyle is detrimental to the human and natural environment, and I hope you don't (ever) drive into San Francisco.

I live in Orlando and it's not that bad. (2, Informative)

IdleTime (561841) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440481)

Ok, so I have lived and worked in IT in Orlando for the past 10 years and on top of it all, I work from home. Trust me on this, there is nothing that beast working out by the pool in January in T-shirt and shorts and a cold one.

And climate, well.. for 9 months of the year, the climate is perfect, warm and not humid. For three months, July-September, it's hot and humid and that is also the peak of hurricane season. But I prefer 95F and an occasional hurricane over months of waist deep snow and below zero . Hacking ice of the windshield before freezing on my way to work is way too overrated!

Not to mention that I can see each shuttle and rocket launch from my living room!

There's a reason Charleston, SC is called... (1)

gishzida (591028) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440487)

The Low Country:

22 Jobs on Dice, an undereducated populace, and as the birth place of hellfire and damnation, a polite familiarity with the Nether Regions.

A place the only The Fallen One can love.

Please define "Work In IT" (1)

rodrigoandrade (713371) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440491)

If we're talking sexy IT companies like Microsoft, Google, Apple, Sun, then you won't find much outside cites in California.

But say, Houston, has (had, when I lived there) lots of good IT jobs, obviously serving the oil industry. But they were still great jobs.

Bentonville? (3, Insightful)

shystershep (643874) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440493)

I wish they'd enlightened us as to some of their 'subjective' reasons for their choices. The Northwest Arkansas metro area (Fayetteville, Springdale, Bentonville & Rogers) regularly makes the top ten of 'best places to live' lists. It's not New York, if that's your thing, but then they listed Boston & SF, too, so WTF?

Re:Bentonville? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440833)

NWA is a great place to live (I spent 7 years there and loved it).

Bentonville, though? They might have renamed it "working in one of the strangest, most totalitarian IT cultures" around, ie. Wal-Mart.

Can't believe New Orleans didn't make the list (1)

siliconincdotnet (525118) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440541)

Out of the 68 open positions on Dice for New Orleans, a significant percentage of them aren't even IT at all (engineering). Add in the crime problem, government corruption, terrible streets, and high'ish cost of living, and I'd think it would come in at #1 on the list.

Re:Can't believe New Orleans didn't make the list (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440635)

All those things could also be said about Jackson, MS.

(Ask me how I know.)

In this economy... (3, Insightful)

DesScorp (410532) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440549)

...the worst cities are those with no jobs. The best cities are the ones with jobs. If you want to pay your bills, you go where the jobs are.

What kind of list of worst cities (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440551)

doesn't include Troy, NY? Or Urbana, IL? Or Waco, TX?

Or how about Washington, DC? Hint: IT guys are low on the totem pole, and politicians, lobbyists, and AOL execs let you know it.

And San Francisco is a BAD place to work? Sounds like these guys sampled the local flora. Hint: if it really did suck, real estate prices would be as in Detroit or Cleveland. And if traffic really is the issue, what about Atlanta, Dallas, and Los Angeles?

FWIW, Cleveland and Pittsburgh aren't THAT bad. And yes, I do mean it. It's been 40 years since the Cuyahoga burned, and it's actually kinda nice now. As is the Erie waterfront.

Orlando??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440587)

Orlando has:

1) Huge Tech Park near University of Central Florida, Siemens, Lockheed Martin, NASA.
2) Thriving and growing downtown
3) Plummeting real estate prices
4) Beaches 45 minutes away, probably the highest concentration of theme parks in the world, tons of activities and night life.
5) Great shopping
6) Growing affluent upper middle class

Let me summarize: Tons of tech jobs, tons of things to do, CHEAP cost of living

The worst NON-US cities to work in IT . . . ? (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440625)

. . . these stories will be definitely much more amusing. C'mon . .. let's hear 'em, from our overseas folks:

Lack of titty-bars in Riyadh? Being offered a rat for dinner in Beijing, and being told that it is a "big mouse"? Water cooling your CPUs with raw sewage, which comes from the same source as the drinking water?

There MUST be some really god-awful places on this planet for IT work, that makes Detroit and their Ohio pals pale in comparison.

Snarky indeed... (2, Informative)

merc (115854) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440645)

I live and work in San Francisco and quite frankly I love it. I've never experienced any of the issues the article claims plague our city (I'm not sure what iJacking is, but my eye sockets are just fine).

Re:Snarky indeed... (1)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440801)

I live and work in San Francisco and quite frankly I love it. I've never experienced any of the issues the article claims plague our city (I'm not sure what iJacking is, but my eye sockets are just fine).

I agree. And did TFA say that the traffic is bad in SF? Apart from the Bay Bridge toll plaza backup, the traffic in SF flows just fine. I don't know what that author is smoking.

Upstate New York Isn't That Bad... (4, Interesting)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440701)

This is all you need to know, math guys: Syracuse holds the title for the U.S. city (pop: 50,000+) with the highest average annual snowfall (115 inches), besting even Anchorage, Alaska (114 inches). It also has a bit of a problem with Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) due to all that snow and not a lot of sunshine. It's called the Salt City: A good thing, since there's all that snow and ice on the roads.

Available IT jobs in Syracuse (as posted on June 18 on Dice.com): 49

I'm tired of seeing people endlessly trash Upstate because of what they read about the winter. What the summary doesn't tell you about the 115 inches of snow is that you rarely have more than 10 inches on the ground at a time; the weather trends for this area lately have seen snow coming primarily on the leading edge of warm fronts in the winter. The result of this is of course you'll shovel your driveway on Monday and then put on sunglasses and a very light coat by Wednesday. In reality every winter in Upstate New York has been near-record warmth for the past several years, and after the short winter season (only about 3 months in reality) the rest of the year is temperate.

That said, the economy of Upstate New York does leave something to be desired; but that can be said for many other parts of the country as well.

But I might be brought to disembowel the next person who reads about Upstate New York and then trashes it over weather that they have not experienced for themselves.

I'll speak up for Cleveland (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440703)

Having worked for 4 different tech companies in Cleveland, I'll speak up for it. Cleveland does have a few things going for it if you're in the tech sector.

There's good higher education to hire from (CWRU (of which I'm an alum) and CSU (from which I've had a couple of excellent co-workers)), good cultural institutions (Cleveland Orchestra, Cleveland Museum of Art, Playhouse Square, The Cleveland Playhouse), good restaurants, affordable housing, decent enough public transportation, and bearable traffic. There's also a national park within about 30 or 40 minutes of downtown (Cuyahoga Valley National Park).

The tech sector is a little small, but it's fairly close-knit as a result of that. I don't think you need 6 degrees to get from anybody to anybody else. One or two is probably sufficient.

While the professional sports teams are perennially frustrating, that's not what I look for in a city. At the end of the day, a city is what you make of it. Cleveland comes with a lot of big city perks without a lot of big city hassles.

In this economy any IT job is a good job (4, Informative)

Ex-Linux-Fanboy (1311235) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440731)

In this economy, any IT job is a good job.

Of everyone who was in my circle of friends working in the IT and computer industry in the mid-to-late 1990s, the only people who have jobs today are in middle management. Not one non-manager I knew back then and know today is working today in the tech industry.

I became an ex-pat, teaching English, translating documents, and helping with the Windows machines in an accounting office in Mexico. I would like to return, but there are just no jobs stateside where I want to live right now.

One friend saved enough money to semi-retire; he, right now, is living with his family to minimize expenses and off of savings. He's not really sure he even wants to return to the industry; the last job he had a couple of years ago left him really burnt out.

Another friend lost his job at a video game company in the late 1990s. He never got hired in the tech industry again, and is currently living off of a military disability pension, paying his debts and planning on returning to college.

These are my luckier friends. Two friends, who have families to raise, both very recently lost jobs in the tech industry and have no idea when they will get work again. One is living off of savings and is really scared when he will get a job again. Another didn't have as much savings, had to leave the apartment he was leasing, and is currently shacked up with a buddy who lets him sleep in the extra bedroom in exchange for computer help; his wife and kids are living with their family.

I am sure either one of these guys would accept a job in Cleveland or Alabama or anywhere else where the company is willing to pay them enough to support their family.

It's a really scary time to work in the tech industry. If you have a job, and it pays enough to support your family, thank the lucky stars you're still working. Not everyone is as lucky as you right now.

iJacking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28440753)

Hey, wait, I thought it was H-Commerce? It's iJacking now? Or is this an East Coast versus West Coast Marketing Gang thing?

Nearly anywhere in the Carolinas (1)

Sandbags (964742) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440785)

With the exception of Columbia, Greenville, and if you like Banks, Charlotte. The rest of the 2 states have virtually no IT opportunities unless you like being a 24/7 on-call IT admin for small firms with no money, no technological understanding, and will be satified with $35K anually... Short of about 50 companies, if you've been rejected by them, or rejected them, you really have no chances...

Missing (5, Interesting)

waterlogged (210759) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440789)

Washington D.C. The entire metropolitan area is one big mess. I have to plan my WEEKEND trips to the grocery store with severe traffic in mind. The area/weather/people are nice enough. However, with the addition of the commute times, I am basically holding down another part-time job just to get to work and back. I work 10-12 hour days just to avoid sitting in that mess for 3-4 hours a day.

Bentonville does suck (1)

trutative (1556051) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440795)

I did not really have much negative feeling for Wal-Mart until I worked in Bentonville for two to three weeks at the Wal-Mart IT HQ.
Between the IT sweatshop like conditions inside the building and all pervasive Wal-Mart "culture" in the rest of the town, it made
me never want to spend time in a Wal-Mart store let alone any more time in Bentonville. Imagine if you will when you go to buy
anything at a grocery store the only choices you have are Wal-Mart grocery stores! If Wal-Mart does not carry what you want
then you are just SOL.

Best city for? (1)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 4 years ago | (#28440859)

Unless you are door to door trying to sell software IT is pretty much behind closed doors, in fact, a good percent of it dont require to be physically at the work offices. Now, if you talk about living in those cities (as in the time you are out of work or going to it, no matter doing what) or trying to get a new job (based on numbers of offers in Dice.com) the list worth something... but is not what the title say.
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