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BD+ Resealed Once Again

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the changing-the-locks dept.

Movies 460

IamTheRealMike writes "It's been a few months since we last checked in on how the Blu-Ray group was doing in their fight against piracy. In December 2008, a new generation of BD+ programs had stopped both SlySoft AnyDVD HD and the open source effort at Doom9. At the start of January, SlySoft released an update that could handle the new BD+ programs, meaning that Blu-Ray discs could not be decrypted for a period of time about the same length as SlySoft's worst case scenario. The BD+ retaliation was swift, but largely ineffective, consisting of a unique program for every Blu-Ray master. Users had to upload log files to SlySoft for every new movie/region. They would then support that unique variant in their next update, usually released a few days later. Despite that, the open source effort never did manage to progress beyond the Winter 2008 programs and is currently stalled completely; SlySoft is the only group remaining. This situation remained for several months, but starting around the same time as Paramount joined Fox in licensing BD+, a new set of programs came out which have once again made Blu-Ray discs unrippable. There are currently 19 movies that cannot be decrypted. It appears neither side is able to decisively gain the upper hand, but one thing seems clear — only full-time, for-profit professionals are able to consistently beat BD+."

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460 comments

The summary is missing something... (5, Insightful)

FredFredrickson (1177871) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541325)

It's important to remember that a lot of people aren't yet focused on bluray. DVD ripping was a must have and many different open-source and closed-source programs popped up over the years because DVD had critical mass. As a previous ex-blu-ray-early-adapter, it may be that people just don't care about blu-ray the same way.. yet. I think if blu-ray ever catches on like DVD did, the story would be different.

I stopped caring about blu-rays, they became too much hassle (and too expensive) for not enough of a quality boost. Maybe in the future when they really start to overtake DVDs (on price too) I'll reconsider. But at the moment, I highly doubt I'm the only one who has no more than one or two blu-ray movies and rented the rest. The big reason I'd have wanted to rip was to keep a digital copy of my collection. Since I don't even have a collection, that will hold off till I stop caring about DVDs.

Blu-ray may yet die a horrible death..

Re:The summary is missing something... (4, Insightful)

sleeponthemic (1253494) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541559)

it may be that people just don't care about blu-ray the same way.. yet. I think if blu-ray ever catches on like DVD did, the story would be different.

You're absolutely right. Furthermore (and perhaps crucially), it would take a significant increase in at-home internet bandwidth / quotas for that to be any different. Can't see many of us throwing 30 gig down on one michael bay movie :-) (Yes, ripping bluray->smaller formats still could be advantageous but I think it would be fair to say, few can be bothered with such tedium).

Re:The summary is missing something... (2, Insightful)

samkass (174571) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541785)

The best use-case for ripping for me is to bring a movie with me on my iPhone. But Blu-Ray discs increasingly contain a full low-res version that can be ripped to the iPhone, fulfilling that need. The next most common need I've heard cited (but am not affected by myself) is the ubiquity of DVD players in car entertainment centers, meeting rooms, etc. Once the licensing, circuits, optics and laser for Blu-Ray are down to trivial cost we'll see that support explode.

All I can say is that on a recent HDTV Blu-Ray sure beats the pants off of cable or downloadable content, even those that are terms "HD". It's all about the bit-rate there, and few other sources have even a quarter of Blu-Ray's capacity there.

Re:The summary is missing something... (2, Insightful)

BillCable (1464383) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542073)

I couldn't agree more on the quality of Blu-ray v/s cable. I have FiOS and occasionally DVR movies off the premium channels. Action scenes are a joke. Pixelation everywhere. Compression artifacts. It's aggravating. And FiOS offers the best quality HD of any provider. Blu-ray is the only true perfect picture available. If somebody doesn't see a huge difference between DVD and Blu-ray, they either need a new TV or a new set of eyes.

Re:The summary is missing something... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541967)

michael bay sucks.

Re:The summary is missing something... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541763)

I pay around $10-12 per movie on Bluray. I recently started building up a collection after only owning 5 Bluray movies (the free Blu-ray promotion with select Bluray players, including PS3).

Amazon has some great deals on Blu-rays, you just have to look and be open to buying something on spur of the moment (eg, the Gold Box deals). Amazon had a glitch or something where they sold Ghostbusters on Bluray for $9.99 after 2 $5 coupon codes. The deal only lasted 6 hours.

Yup (2, Insightful)

metamatic (202216) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542169)

I have a Blu-ray player and HDTV.

I still buy DVDs, even when the Blu-ray disc is available, because Blu-ray isn't enough of a quality upgrade (compared to a DVD player with a good upscaler) to be worth the functionality loss.

Re:The summary is missing something... (4, Interesting)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542247)

It's important to remember that a lot of people aren't yet focused on bluray.

DVD Jon and Co. cracked CSS in 1999, long before DVD hit its stride. The reality is that CSS was vastly easier to circumvent, virtually trivial, compared to the protections on HD media. AES encryption is not something that can be broken in a few minutes by a cracking program. We're talking about a fundamentally difficult encryption method.

The main issue here is that the content industry has built Blu-Ray distribution around devices which do not trust their owners. This is the first concrete deployment of "trusted computing" type system, and the reality is that it is working. Despite the best efforts of hackers everywhere, Blu-Ray has not been cracked and most likely never will be.

The content industry has won this round, and will continue to win with ever more secure encryption and a legion of untrusting, internet connected players in peoples living rooms. The genie is back in the bottle. Once DVD dies, or is executed, the age of high quality movie rips will be behind us.

Re:The summary is missing something... (1)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542405)

When DVD came out it offered a quality boost, but also a convenience boost. VHS had no chapters, and fast forward stunk. One huge benefit was being able to skip around. Where is that kind of new benefit with Blue Ray?

Dear Sony (4, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541381)

I don't care about your little IP war. All I know is, the first time I pop a blu-ray disc into my $300 player and it refuses to play because of one of your new little one-upmanship encryption schemes, I'm going to be plenty pissed. And I bet there are any number of ambulance-chasing trial lawyers out there are who going to be looking to make some big money off some nice class action suits everytime one of your new schemes renders all our existing players obsolete too.

P.S. And no, "Well you may be able to get a firmware update from your player's manufacturer" doesn't cut it.

Re:Dear Sony (5, Insightful)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541459)

... one of your new schemes renders all our existing players obsolete too.

As someone who's still using DVDs, I see this from a slightly different angle. In my brain I'm thinking about the future and how difficult it's going to be for device manufacturers to support this format "consisting of a unique program for every Blu-Ray master." I mean, while the fight was HD DVD vs Blu-Ray, I was looking forward to "movie players" in the future being able to play anything under the sun and since the disc is standardized in size you'd be able to have players be backward compatible for multiple technologies ... maybe even leave open possibilities for up-converting old discs.

But after reading this story, I'm sure all this new anti-anti-anti-theft encryption technology requires you buy a license to use the per master programs and that these programs require a ton of chipset/memory on the device to decrypt these things. By the time you've foot the bill for the hardware and IP licenses on the technology, the universal player isn't going to be worth it.

It currently may spell annoyance/lawsuit but I predict the future techies will look back and frown upon what was done when future generations are left to be curators of digital media and wacky encryption schemes.

Re:Dear Sony (4, Informative)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541541)

The BD+ VM is pretty simple actually and can be implemented in software. I imagine the bulk of the cost is in licensing, not the actual technical cost of implementation. And by the way, BD+ only really digs into your player if it's known to be compromised. If a new version of the player firmware is released that resecures it, BD+ programs won't bother to do any checks on it.

Re:Dear Sony (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541643)

I'm sure all this new anti-anti-anti-copyright infringement encryption technology...

There, fixed.

Re:Dear Sony (1)

sjwest (948274) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541569)

I bet Michael Lynton of Sony Corp is happy that Sony is screwing its clients in way he publically wants.

Blueray (or any dvd replacement) is not on my wishlist anytime soon.

I win against blue ray every day (5, Insightful)

syousef (465911) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541615)

I win against blue ray every day because I don't own a blu ray player and have never bought a blu ray disc. I recommend you do the same. Don't buy the discs then get pissed and try to sue. Vote with your feet.

Re:I win against blue ray every day (1, Funny)

sleeponthemic (1253494) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541741)

Vote with your feet.

I call bullshit. Only Chuck Norris could possibly pay for goods with roundhouse kicks.

Re:I win against blue ray every day (5, Interesting)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541767)

Sadly, if you want HD content (and not that overcompressed downloaded crap), blu-ray is the only choice now. It's a shame too. I have an HD-DVD player which loads discs and performs MUCH faster than any blu-ray player I've ever had. And the HD-DVD format had a lot cheaper prices for discs, more lax region coding, didn't make unskippable opening trailers a seeming prerequsite for the format (seriously, every single blu-ray I buy seems to have these annoying things), and was generally WAY more consumer friendly. Blu-ray seems more geared to the studios; their trailers, their encryption, etc.; than to the person actually BUYING the disc. It's like the studios invented blu-ray just to piss people off and turn them off to the whole idea of a HD video format.

Re:I win against blue ray every day (4, Interesting)

syousef (465911) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541831)

It's like the studios invented blu-ray just to piss people off and turn them off to the whole idea of a HD video format.

If so it worked for me! I grew up with crappy VHS tapes that lost tracking, had snow, and generally had poor picture quality. DVD is heaven to me. Why the hell would I pay $1000+ for a HD tv and $300+ for a blu ray player so I can put up with unbreakable encryption, crappy region coding, overpriced discs, unskipable ads and propaganda. For what? A bit more detail in the picture? There truly isn't another advantage to the format that even interests me. They can keep it.

Re:I win against blue ray every day (2, Informative)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541941)

Why the hell would I pay $1000+ for a HD tv

Well, you are aware that HD content can come from sources other than BluRay, right?

$300+ for a blu ray player

Um, BR players can be had for as little as $75. http://electronics.pricegrabber.com/blu-ray-players/p/2065/st=sort/sortby=priceA [pricegrabber.com]

Re:I win against blue ray every day (3, Informative)

karnal (22275) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542193)

The Toshiba HD-A3 plays HD-DVDs, not BR. The lowest price your link shows is $141.69 for a Samsung BD-P1500. That, combined with the fact that to purchase the same movie in BR format costs more as well.

Re:I win against blue ray every day (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28542245)

Which are older versions of the spec and they are STILL coming out with new versions of the blu-ray spec. Obsolete before you buy it woo! Come on now, its supposed to be an appliance, not a computer you have to keep updated and replacing...

Re:I win against blue ray every day (3, Interesting)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541845)

If you don't mind buying your players and discs from China, there's always CBHD...

Re:I win against blue ray every day (2, Insightful)

thedonger (1317951) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541913)

Blu-ray seems more geared to the studios; their trailers, their encryption, etc.; than to the person actually BUYING the disc. It's like the studios invented blu-ray just to piss people off and turn them off to the whole idea of a HD video format.

They invented Blu-Ray to fully monetize the high-def video market, which includes all those things in the first sentence.

Re:Dear Sony (1)

sleeponthemic (1253494) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541655)

You're an early adopter and the reality of this is that often, you get the shaft. I doubt you paid $300 and received a set in stone guarantee that your player would be able to player discs from now until eternity.

Of course, I'm not saying that isn't massively unfair, I'm just saying, thinking about it for a moment, early adopters often get the shaft (without legal ramifications). This doesn't appear to generally discourage companies beyond that of souring your retail choice, which of course means nothing to them (as you are a minority). Cutting it for you isn't their concern. You are a beta tester.

Re:Dear Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541687)

dear sony, I have yet to buy a BD player precisely because of the stupid encryption scheme. I'm perfectly happy with DVDs on my 40' hdtv, and the only way i'm getting a BD player is by having a PS3 (which I'll use to play downloaded content). Take a clue from the music industry, fighting against your customers is a bad business plan.

Re:Dear Sony (5, Interesting)

ground.zero.612 (1563557) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541777)

All I know is, the first time I pop a blu-ray disc into my $300 player and it refuses to play because of one of your new little one-upmanship encryption schemes, I'm going to be plenty pissed.

Amen brother. I recently bought a $1200 HP Pavillion with blu-ray player and gf9600, 4gb ram yadda yadda. What interested me the most was 500gb HDD, blu-ray player, and hdmi out...

I was pissed off the very first time I played a blu-ray. You see, HDCP shut me down before I even got to the blu-ray menu. I am still very pissed off because nowhere on the box, or in the press kit; was a notification saying that although this computer has a blu-ray player AND HDMI out, that you will not be able to play a single blu-ray disc through that port. The best I get is upscaled DVDs, which I'm not surprised they haven't put BD+ on dvd's now to prevent me from doing even this.

I tried to purchase AnyDVD-HD but my Visa is declined for "109 Euros too high, authorization declined" which my bank has no idea what that means. I refuse to buy a PS3 for many reasons and I refuse to pay out another $200+ for a standalone player. I feel a bit duped by the movie studios into buying a blu-ray player that is only good on the small 17" screen built into my laptop, which does not handle 1080p :(

Re:Dear Sony (1)

acohen1 (1454445) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541909)

Sounds like its NVIDIA's fault for not providing an HDCP compatible HDMI port. It usually says right on the box of the card if it supports HDCP. Although I've never purchased an HDMI video card, I think most of the new ATi cards support HDCP. You can probably get one that works for under $50.

Re:Dear Sony (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28542239)

Are you retarded?

Re:Dear Sony (0, Troll)

Absolut187 (816431) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541867)

ambulance-chasing trial lawyers

Wow. Why the hostility toward trial lawyers?

YOU are the one talking about suing someone.

People love to blame lawyers for every legal woe, but lawyers don't sue people.
NON-lawyers sue each other.
The lawyers just represent them in court..

Re:Dear Sony (1)

Kabuthunk (972557) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542013)

True, lawyers themselves don't start lawsuits (typically)... HOWEVER, I can't even count how many times I've seen a commercial stating "If you've been in an accident, or anything bad has happened to you, call our number, and we will GET YOU MONEY".

Don't count the lawyers out of the equation either... they're also the ones telling people that suing people is a GOOD thing.

"Lawyers don't sue people; people sue people" (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542163)

ambulance-chasing trial lawyers

Wow. Why the hostility toward trial lawyers?

I assume that "ambulance-chasing" refers to law firms who promote the idea of suing in general. The term connotes the use of controversial tactics to convince prospective clients that they have a dispute that is best settled in court.

lawyers don't sue people.
NON-lawyers sue each other.

Guns don't kill people; people who promote killing cause people to be killed. Likewise, lawyers don't sue people; law firms who promote suing cause people to be sued.

Re:Dear Sony (5, Insightful)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541883)

The power of BD+ [wikipedia.org] is that they can do this without breaking existing players, because they can actually change the encryption [wikipedia.org] on the new disks, while still supporting the existing players.

Everybody laughs that DRM can never succeed - but BD+ has taken DRM to an entirely new level. It is a shame so much brain power was devoted to hustling people - I like to think that if this same amount of intelligence were applied to legitimate problems, we might have a man on Mars, or a fusion power.

maybe (5, Funny)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541391)

only full-time, for-profit professionals are able to consistently beat BD+

Maybe open source developers have better things to do than to do legally questionable things in order to circumvent copy protection on an overpriced, obsolete distribution format?

Re:maybe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541475)

-1, Sour Grapes.

Re:maybe (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541495)

-1, Faggy Peanuts.

Re:maybe (2, Funny)

sleeponthemic (1253494) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541683)

I heard they all bailed out when they found out bluray doesn't run linux, linux runs bluray. Which, according to some sounds awfully soviet.

Re:maybe (4, Funny)

gbarules2999 (1440265) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541929)

Maybe open source developers have better things to do

Like fixing Pulseaudio?

Ooh, I said it. And I'm fairly pro-Linux around here, too. Ouch.

Re:maybe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28542385)

What about making a better c compiler so Firefox runs as fast on Linux as on Windows.

How to send HD video at 5 GB/mo? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542265)

Maybe open source developers have better things to do than to do legally questionable things in order to circumvent copy protection on an overpriced, obsolete distribution format?

How is BD so obsolete? In less built-up areas of the United States, the best home Internet access plans are satellite and mobile broadband, which typically run 5000 MB/month for 60 USD per month, and that equals an effective sustained throughput close to 15 kbps. Never underestimate the bandwidth of a UPS truck full of BDs.

Re:maybe (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542417)

Or maybe it's the fact that movie playback sucks even if you get it decrypted? Linux got trouble with the menus, the file types, the audio codecs... pretty much the only thing that works easily and well is video decoding - h264 always seems to work great, because it's practicly the same as any other h264 video. Audio on the other hand is full of exotic codecs like DTS-HD Master and TrueHD that just aren't used anywhere else because noone has 10gb to waste on an audio track. It does mostly handle the basic m2ts (bluray) / evo (hddvd) files but that's pieces of the movie, I still haven't seen any one-click "here's the disc image, play film" setup. Not even the quick version without the menus, even at the best of times I have to queue up the parts or join them first.

I should of course note that none of this applies to the typical reencode in MKV format using AC3/DTS, it's only a problem playing the native disc. There are ways of getting it done without booting into windows but I've had to use manual steps using windows-software under WINE to get it over to a format Linux (that is to say, any of mplayer/xine/vlc) handles. Sp yeah BD+ neato, but there's more fundamental problems that need solving first.

Why Slashdot Fired Michael (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541423)

January 31st, 2005, was the last day that Michael Sims, Nazi editor of Slashdot [blogspot.com], ever posted a story or indeed was ever heard from again. But what happened that day to Michael Sims? Did his embroilment in the Censorware.org conspiracy finally catch up with him? Or was he involved in a violent, and ultimately fatal, lovers' spat with his partner Jamie McCarthy? The truth, as we'll see, is much more perverse than fiction.

On New Year's Eve of 2004, the entire Slashdot staff was throwing a party to celebrate another year of Linux propaganda, homosexual recruitment, and the profits that their Microsoft ad banners had raked in for them. Eric Raymond, Emad, Roblimo, Hemos, Taco, Jamie, and Alan Cox all planned to rape Richard Stallman later in the night. Michael had shown up late, however, and was let in on the plans after they were made.

As it turned out, Jamie was to be leading the charge against the Free Software Foundation's founder and would be the first to penetrate Stallman's hairy unwashed ass. Michael, however, was jealous of this and made secret plans to thwart their nefarious venture of homosexual rape. The event was planned for zero hours, right as the ball dropped. But Michael had other ideas.

Michael suggested they all toast their plan with JÃgermeister, Eric Raymond's drink of choice that was in heavy supply that night, and the rest of the partygoers followed. While everyone downed their first shot, Michael slipped into the VA Software office's break-room, grabbing the syringe Raymond used to inject Rob Malda's semen with on the way. Michael leered at the case of JÃgermeister, needle in hand.

Minutes later, Michael reappeared in the conference room with more JÃger, ready for more shots. Over the next couple of hours they indulged in several drinking and party games, spurred on by Michael, as they drank bottle after bottle of the dark brown herbal liquor. If one were to pay special attention to Michael, however, they would note that Michael drank much less than anyone else and only from his own bottle.

Emad and Roblimo were involved in a powerful sixty-nine cheered on by Hemos and Alan whose bent geek penises throbbed near Emad's head and Roblimo's bloated ass, waiting for an opportunity. Moaning, Emad diverted his wet mouth from Roblimo's butthole and took down Hemos and Alan's cocks in quick succession. Hearing the wet, sloppy commotion behind him, Roblimo lost control and glunked all over Emad's chest.

Across the room near the podium, Eric Raymond was man-handling Rob, jamming a handgun down the back of his pants and asking him if he remembered their special night in Holland [blogspot.com]. Rob was giggling like a school girl and squirmed with all his might against the cold steel. Eric rained a shower of JÃger over Rob's head which Rob greedily tongued up even as Eric's skinny red penis entered his ass cheeks, probing for the brown prize.

The conference room was awash in gay cum and chaos, Michael noted happily as he surveyed the carnage around him. Emad had now teamed up with Alan and Hemos to rape Roblimo's ass as Rob was being pistol-whipped to orgasm by Eric, all oblivious to the massive amounts of Rohypnol they were ingesting as they drank the JÃgermeister Michael had given them. It wouldn't be much longer before the drug took effect.

Another half-hour into the night, Eric paused from raping Taco's mouth and sodomizing his anus with his Glock, short of breath. His head swam and he looked at his bottle of JÃgermeister. I can usually down six of these babies, thought Eric, wondering why he was now farting uncontrollably. Rob's nose wrinkled as Eric's rectum expelled another gallon of aerosolized feces into the air. Stooping, Eric held on to the podium for support.

Across the way, Emad pulled his tiny Iranian dick out from between Alan and Hemos's in Roblimo's ass and doubled over. Alan and Hemos continued pounding Roblimo's purple, swollen anus even as Emad began vomiting all over their cocks, thinking it a move on Emad's part to spice things up. Roblimo passed out again for the fourth time that night, but as Hemos slapped him, he failed to wake up.

With Emad vomiting even more violently now, Hemos wondered what was going on. He held a hand to his head as he began forgetting why he was balls-deep in some old man's ass. Alan began hiccuping, which led to uneven strokes and finally a quick orgasm which was quickly washed away by more of Emad's vomit. Nausea rose in Alan's throat as the scents of semen, man-ass, sweat, and vomit overcame him.

Michael was smiling from the corner chair at the table when the telecom beeped. He quickly left the conference room and headed toward the VA Software compound's front doors to let RMS in. As he rounded the last corner, however, Michael almost dropped his bottle of untainted JÃger when he saw that Stallman was not alone. Standing next to him was the CEO of VA Software, Larry Augustin.

His mind racing a thousand miles a minute, Michael feigned a security malfunction when he tried to open the door, leaving Stallman and Augustin stranded outside in the cold. Waving Michael off, Larry Augustin was about to get a slim-jim when he stopped, staring, right behind Michael. There, crawling on the ground, was Rob Malda in his familiar green-and-white plaid shirt, covered in chunks of semen, blood, and feces.

Rob Malda looked up at Augustin and feebly reached out to him before vomiting on the cold tile floor and passing out with a squish in his own sick. Larry and Richard's faces were masks of horror and disgust, and they wasted no time in forcing open the doors. Larry disabled the alarms while Richard checked Rob's pulse. As Richard loosened Rob's collar, Larry turned to Michae, gglaring, and shouted, "What the Hell happened here tonight?"

The conference room was a mess. Feces covered the wall and in some places even the ceiling. The carpet was soaked with blood, semen, diarrhea, and vomit in a stew so unimaginable that the room was later bulldozed instead of being professionally cleaned. On the dry erase board, someone had gotten creative and drawn erect, ejaculating penises in their own poo. And behind the podium lay Eric Raymond, sleeping fitfully.

At the other end of the room, Emad was curled into fetal position surrounded by a lake of vomit and curdling shit, both trailing from his soiled form nothing new [blogspot.com] to him. Hemos and Alan laid moaning next to one another, limp dicks in one another's slimy hands. Behind them Roblimo's morose form breathed shallowly, ass in the air where he had passed out earlier. He farted in his sleep as Larry Augustin looked on, mouth agape.

Next week, Larry Augustin held a special meeting with the Slashdot staff. Emad, Jamie, Roblimo, Rob, and Hemos all seated themselves and the meeting began. Eric Raymond also showed, though everyone there seemed a little perplexed. Their party had gotten messy but no one remembered how. Eric wanted especially hard to remember, he thought as he patted his stomach, which still gurgled painfully.

Early in the wee hours of January 1st, 2005, Larry watched as sickened paramedics loaded VA employee after VA employee into the backs of ambulances and raced them to the hospital. They were treated for dehydration and were all given stomach pumps, enemas, and several rounds of antibiotics. They were also tested for drugs and the results were more than a little surprising. Michael, however, had been the only one to test negative.

Hour after hour went by in the VA board-room as each one of the partygoer related their experience. Roblimo, now wheelchair-bound, took the mic and shared his experience that mirrored everyone else's: After his first few toasts of JÃgermeister, he remembered nothing save waking up a day later in the hospital, tubes and wires trailing from his bruised body. Roblimo was suffering from a rectal prolapse.

It was decided by a unanimous vote that Michael Sims was to be fired with due haste, as he had drugged the entire Slashdot staff in an attempt to rape them. Unfortunately, due haste took about three-and-a-half weeks so the shareholders could approve the move. Their reaction to the story removed any doubt about Michael's fate and the motion was carried unanimously. Michael was terminated January 31st, 2005.

So now you know why Michael Sims hasn't posted any new stories to Slashdot since January. Let it be a warning to you, gentle reader, of what evil lurks in the hearts of psychotic Linux zealots and Nazi propagandists. Since then the boys at Slashdot have been able to laugh it off, but consider their depraved anus-games. You might not be so lucky were Michael Sims to happen to you. You have been warned.

print screen? (1)

beefsprocket (1152865) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541425)

You mean I can't print screen anymore? Been a while since I was even moderately interested in blu-ray since they fixed that bug 3+ years ago. meh.

For now (2, Interesting)

Lockblade (1367083) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541435)

but one thing seems clear â" only full-time, for-profit professionals are able to consistently beat BD+.

At the moment.

I highly doubt that there's not a backdoor key in the encryption, no matter how much they try to block people from copying/backing up/ripping. Mainly because if someone buys a $300 player that can't play any current movies and has no internet connection, a law suit is just around the corner.

And nothing of value was lost (3, Insightful)

Goodl (518602) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541453)

Time and again the drm has been cracked, why should we think otherwise for this latest iteration. I just don't think enough people are concerned / bothered about it to build up sufficient momentum in the open source arena. The closed source with a paying userbase just hasn't reached critical mass for them to devote enough resource

Here's the real question (3, Insightful)

iCantSpell (1162581) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541489)

50gb Blu-ray RiP or 1-3gb DVD-RiP?

Re:Here's the real question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541573)

If you're going to reencode the DVD down to 1 to 3GB, then why don't you do the same to the 50GB Blu-ray? Although, its not as if any of the movies are actually that big. Sure, the disc is, but that's all the extra content included.

Re:Here's the real question (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541575)

or 4.3-6gb 720p encode of the 50gb Blu-Ray rip that I can't tell the difference between the 720p encode and the 1080p source on my 43" TV?

Re:Here's the real question (4, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541583)

Yeah, exactly. I'd be surprised if BD+ really reduced piracy. I suspect most pirates will just grab the lower quality but still highly watchable DVD rips. I guess if BluRay penetration increases studios might start releasing the DVD copies months after the BluRay copies, but there'll always be a large contigent of people who just don't care about the quality increase. I think piracy is mostly about convenience after all.

Re:Here's the real question (1)

afidel (530433) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541625)

More to the point, enjoy the movie in an hour or two or watch it tomorrow in HD? That's really the question for me, and 99/100 times it's watch it in an hour or two. If I really like a title and think I'll want to watch it a bunch it's probably worth DL'ing the BD rip in the background if it's a visually stunning movie, otherwise why bother? I can't wait till someone like Netflix can offer the same decisions for a reasonable fee, I don't mind paying for good content but it really needs to be on the customers terms.

Re:Here's the real question (1)

acohen1 (1454445) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541865)

You are comparing apples to oranges. A compressed DVD format movie is typically 1.4GB but can be up to 8.5GB on disc, usually 4.5 for single layer though. Similarly a 1080P BD dump may start as large as 50GB but is usually compressed down to 8.5GB. 720P can easily be compressed to 4.5GB when scaled from BD source. So really the question is Uncompressed do I want 50GB or 8.5GB or compressed to I want 8.5GB or 1.4GB. The also standard def BD rips weighing in around 2GB that at least dont have de-interlacing noise. Since I used to only download the dvd isos at 4.5GB getting a 1080P at 8.5 is really no big deal.

No, HERE's the real question (1)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542325)

Unplayable Blu-Ray disc or playable Blu-Ray rip?

Until BD+ is truly defeated, Blu-Ray discs are not a viable consumer choice. I can buy a Blu-Ray drive and a Blu-Ray disc and still not have the capacity to watch the movie. So why would I do that? How do they expect to collect revenue? From one-shot sucker buys, where someone buys a single movie, finds out the fraud, and then never repeats business? I can't believe that's going to work. Fraud is for fly-by-night operations, not entrenched and known industries like Hollywood.

The first step to having customers, is to refrain from telling potential customers, "Fuck off, we don't want your money, but if you do force it down our throats by buying our product, at least we won't let you play it."

don't buy it (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541503)

It's clear that it certainly isn't a straightforward thing to buy a BluRay movie (quite legally) and "just play it" - say, in your Linux PC. It's locked down as tight as they possibly can lock it down.

So, why would anyone buy something designed to be so restrictive to legit owners? I say: don't buy, don't pirate, just ignore the damn thing entirely. The only way the industry is ever going to change their draconian ways is if no one buys their crap.

You might say, "they'll just chalk it up to piracy!" But if no one is pirating either, it hardly matters. They will either go out of business entirely and a new thing will pop up to fill that market niche, or they will change their tune. Either way, it is consumers who have the power *if we are wise enough to use it*.

Re:don't buy it (1)

AltGrendel (175092) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541667)

But what will you do when they stop offering alternative and this turns into "the only game in Town"?

Re:don't buy it (1)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541879)

Movies aren't necessary for survival or even a decent quality of life. Just stop buying them.

Re:don't buy it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541981)

Pirate.

I expect BD+DVD to coexist longer than DVD+VHS (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542397)

But what will you do when they stop offering alternative and this turns into "the only game in Town"?

DVD replaced VHS not only because of picture quality but also because of usability: 1. instantaneous rewinding and fast-forwarding, 2. smaller form factor, and 3. players the size of a subnotebook or tablet PC for use by passengers in vehicles. BD's big advantage over DVD is picture quality, and you don't see even that advantage unless you're part of the 1/3 of the population who has an HDTV. DVD players cost about $30 now; with all the patents and copy-protection on BD video, I don't expect that to come down any time soon. So I expect BD and DVD to coexist for significantly longer than the nine or so years that DVD and VHS coexisted.

Blu-ray? (1, Interesting)

Fnord666 (889225) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541533)

Is blu-ray still around? I thought it had gone the way that all the proprietary Sony formats had gone before. That is, it had faded into obscurity from disinterest. Let me know when players are less than $100 and discs are under $15. Meanwhile I will continue to use my HD-DVD player, which was purchased for $50 and for which I bought season one of Heroes yesterday for $9.

Re:Blu-ray? (3, Insightful)

Sir_Lewk (967686) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541665)

You managed to buy that disk for only $9 because the format is dead. That's like me saying VHS is better because I can pick up tons of cassettes for pennies at yardsales.

Re:Blu-ray? (3, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541847)

This is 2009.

As long as you can get the data off of the media, and onto a computer the format will never really die.

That's the real problem of "effective" copy protection
methods. There is some risk that works will be lost
because no one can copy them. Works being copied by
people other than the author/publisher are the most
effective means of preserving them.

Far too often the author/publisher doesn't care.
They are content to let works just "rot in the vault".

If I wanted to spend 25G per title in disk space I would
be snarfing up those HD-DVDs myself. I haven't watched a
movie on it's original disk in 2 years and haven't played
audio CD's directly in more than 10.

Nevermind the pirates. Sony needs to worry about it's own back catalog.

Re:Blu-ray? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541935)

"Is blu-ray still around?"

Yes it is, don't be stupid. Try leaving your parents' basement once a month or so.

Re:Blu-ray? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28542067)

Let us know how season 2 on HD DVD looks.

Just wait for more users (1)

dermoth666 (1019892) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541587)

AFAIK BD still have a small penetration and most people are still using standard DVD's (I even recall an article a couple weeks ago about avericans having more HD-DVD players in circulation than BD players!)

Just wait until more people use DB and I'm sure it won't be long before each new BD+ gets cracked promptly...

Re:Just wait for more users (1)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541915)

That article counted the PS3 separately, however. In reality, there are significantly more BD players than HD-DVD players, counting the PS3.

Re:Just wait for more users (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541933)

(I even recall an article a couple weeks ago about avericans having more HD-DVD players in circulation than BD players!)

Then you should also recall that those numbers didn't take PS3 sales into account, which is fucking ridiculous. No, there aren't more HD-DVD players in circulation.

No problem here. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541599)

People, like me, are completely uninterested in bluray movies atm. Why would I pay $200+ dollars to be able to rent a bluray if I can just use my existing dvd drive to play any movie I want with already satisfactory quality? Plus bluray is much more expensive compared to renting/buying dvds. Wake me up when bluray *burners* are $50.

Decrypted at some point (1)

Haiyadragon (770036) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541645)

The data is decrypted at some point. Is it that hard to just capture the output from whatever device is doing the decrypting? We only need one person to rip it.

Re:Decrypted at some point (2, Informative)

johnthorensen (539527) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541721)

This is why HDCP exists. It ensures an encrypted pathway all the way to the electronics that drive the display pixels. You could capture at this point, but it would be a mammoth task in terms of data-acquisition. That said, HDCP is evil.

Re:Decrypted at some point (4, Interesting)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541989)

LVDS isn't encrypted at all, and it's usually how the bare LCD panel is driven - there's usually two (or more, but usually two for logic) PCBs in an LCD display of some kind. One takes inputs (VGA, DVI, HDMI, etc., etc.,) and outputs LVDS. The other takes LVDS and controls the individual pixels.

Not to mention, the LVDS protocols used by LCDs are simpler than TMDS, IIRC - it'd actually be easier to get the content from LVDS instead of DVI/HDMI.

Of course, DisplayPort is pushing for an internal DisplayPort standard, which would give HDCP straight to the controller driving the pixels directly.

Care? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541657)

I don't buy DRM crap.
DVD/CSS can go to hell.
Ipods can go to hell.
Who needs Blueray/HDDVD anyway? They can go to hell too.
I do not even buy CDs if they don't explicitly state that they employ no DRM scheme.(*)
I really have no use for crappy music installing Trojans on my computer. If I want to listen to crappy music I turn on the radio, which I rarely do.
I have no use for a "calling home" video player either.

I have more important things to spend my money on than privacy-eroding, basic liberties eroding, greedy, amoral mega corporations.

People should stop watching so much advertising. Works wonders...

(*) A good sign that they do not is this old Redbook CD-DA Logo. Manufacturers are only allowed to put it on if they adhere to the spec. DRM is a spec violation, so no logo!

Captcha: educator hehe

Re:Care? (3, Informative)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541991)

(*) A good sign that they do not is this old Redbook CD-DA Logo. Manufacturers are only allowed to put it on if they adhere to the spec. DRM is a spec violation, so no logo!

A number of major labels have decided to no longer put the logo on their packaging even when the disc conforms to Redbook specifications.

It's not a charity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541689)

Why can't people realise that movie companies aren't running a charity? Companies release films to make money! How many of those people who are complaining about the encryption here even pay for their DVDs these days? I'd love to place a wager on that!

Re:It's not a charity (3, Insightful)

Dotren (1449427) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541975)

Why can't people realise that movie companies aren't running a charity? Companies release films to make money! How many of those people who are complaining about the encryption here even pay for their DVDs these days? I'd love to place a wager on that!

I don't think most people here are arguing against them making money. This is much more about fair use AFTER the physical media has been bought. Given the ability, these companies would charge you for the physical media, the hardware it plays on, AND another fee for each time you watch the movie. Hell, if they could figure out a way to detect how many people were watching it, I'm sure they'd want to charge a "movie watching fee" to each person too (as it is, I'm not even sure you can legally have a "movie night" at a university campus anymore without a license to show it, even though you've already purchased the DVD).

Sure, the companies want to make money, and I don't begrudge them that AS LONG AS they actually continue making something worth buying and don't resort to trying to destroy fair use rights to get people to buy multiple copies of the same movie or multiple movie players just to watch something they already own or trying to charge for use of the media after its already been purchased.

Good news and better news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541735)

The good news is, pretty much all of those movies (minus maybe the original Earth Stood Still and History of the World), to put it politely, suck and aren't worth even not paying for.

The better news is, if you absolutely, positively have to have a rip of "Marley And Me," a Hauppauge HD-PVR hooked up to your component outs will cure what ails you (even if it doesn't give you better taste in movies).

give it some time... (5, Interesting)

rob13572468 (788682) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541783)

The arms race with BD+ mirrors exactly what happened with sattv hacking 10 years ago. The encryption starts out simple and uses a minimal implementation of the BD spec. Once that is compromised the ip holders inevitably move to the more complex implementation of the spec. Currently this involves uploading a code package with each new release that performs the decryption, blacklist checking, and ultimately a system integrity check (the latter makes sure that BD+ API has not been patched to allow unconditional decryption which is the method slysoft uses). With every release, the IP holder looks at how the system has been hacked and writes a specific code package to detect those changes. The end result of this game is that the system will become totally compromised as hackers will simply rebuild the entire BD+ VM and API in emulation and allow for patching outside of the VM implementation (e.g. the system will respond as a valid unhacked system to any checks via VM code packages but will still perform unconditional decryption) Once that happens its over for BD+ as the only possible countermeasure is to attack flaws in the emulator implementation and those are easily fixed. Give it a year or so...

what is this blue-ray you speak of (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28541827)

Laser Disc is better than any DVD or Blue-Ray. It's the only way to watch japanese anime!

troll article is trolling (3, Insightful)

Tiber (613512) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541851)

It appears neither side is able to decisively gain the upper hand, but one thing seems clear â" only full-time, for-profit professionals are able to consistently beat BD+.

That's like saying "only government funded, for profit individuals have any hope of working on the space shuttle". But the space shuttle isn't represented in the majority of homes yet. Come back when enough people have BD+ to make it interesting.

Re:troll article is META-trolling (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541901)

only full-time, for-profit professionals are able to consistently beat BD+

And Cassius Clay couldn't possibly beat Sonny Liston.

OK, the clock starts...NOW!

I'm guessing there's an interesting story behind "iamtherealmike".

Re:troll article is META-trolling (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541961)

After extensive (30 seconds) research, I take back what I said about iamtherealmike.

I'm still betting on the "part-time, non-profit amateurs", though. The road is littered with corporations who bet against them.

High Cost? (2, Informative)

pdmd (1589245) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541931)

For those complaining about the "high" cost... You can now get Blu-ray players for Walmart starting from $125 meanwhile Amazon is selling disks starting at $13. Sure it's not as cheap as DVD, but it's gone down in price significantly over the course of 1 year.

Re:High Cost? (1)

scharkalvin (72228) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542145)

YES! and some nice collections of stuff are now on BD at prices only slightly higher than DVD.
Such as the original 6 Star Trek movies on BD with an "extras" disk. Lists for about $100, but you
can find it for about half that on line.

Also there are some very nice players under $200, I've even seen a $99 player at Wally*World.
Also a nice "universal" player (CD,CDR,CDRW, DVD+/- R/RW (with mp3, ogg, mp4, avi, dvix, etc)
super upconverting of DVD's, discrete 7.1 analog audio out (don't need external surround decoder)
for about $500.

The only reason BD may die is if video on demand download in HD really catches on. Right now
with all the crappy compression VOD HD sucks compared to BD. For those who say the increase
in PQ isn't worth going BD, try getting a better TV. On a good 50" or larger LCD or Plasma you CAN
see the difference. (With a good DVD issue, and a HQ de-interlace and upconversion processor the
DVD will look real good on a large screen set to the point you might not want to update your entire
DVD collection to BD, but you WILL see a difference)

Any "bricked" players out there? (4, Interesting)

scharkalvin (72228) | more than 4 years ago | (#28541947)

Does anybody reading this own an early BD player that no longer will work
due to changes in BD+? Has anybody reading this had to get their BD
player firmware updated to play existing or new discs as a result of
changes in BD+ (firmware updates to get new features such as BD live
don't count)? I know that the design of BD+ makes this possible, but
has it actually happened?

Re:Any "bricked" players out there? (1)

MostAwesomeDude (980382) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542297)

Software players, like PowerDVD, are the source for most of the VM tricks and keys used to rip these discs, and the reason that these new discs don't work is because PowerDVD can't play them either.

So yeah, it's happening.

Wrong professionals (2, Insightful)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542033)

one thing seems clear â" only full-time, for-profit professionals are able to consistently beat BD+.

In this case, the "professionals" (hah!) would be the knuckledraggers at Sony who approved this fiasco. They beat BD+ so thoroughly that I have no desire to go anywhere near it.

Physical Media Is Outdated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28542077)

I never plan on touching a blu-ray as they are expensive and take up physical space. Terabyte (even multiple terabyte) hard drives are pretty cheap these days and can hold a LOT of movies. I can easily stream them to my TV through my xbox 360 and don't even have to get off my ass to change the movie.
I don't know why people are bothering with blu-ray, media centers ftw!

So sad. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28542085)

I would love to decrypt all my BlueRay discs. Oh wait, I don't have any, because I DON'T BUY DRM!

Attack angle (1)

mseeger (40923) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542087)

Hi,

my best guess is, that the attack angle will shift soon. Instead of decrypting the
content of the disk, there will be software/hardware to break the HDCP-protection.
It would be a lot more difficult close holes there, as thousands of devices are
already out (which cannot be modified but only blacklisted).

CU, Martin

Blu-Ray discs are not unrippable (1)

roystgnr (4015) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542149)

a new set of programs came out which have once again made Blu-Ray discs unrippable

At best, 19 Blu-Ray discs are unrippable - the rest are even easier to rip than they first were, because the "break old BD+ encryption" method of ripping has been supplemented with the "go online and download an already ripped copy" method. So congratulations to the movie industry; a fraction of a percent of the titles they've released will take a little longer to join the rest being pirated. In exchange, they've had to pay for a complex encryption system whose existence has delayed the development of HD home theater equipment, stopped me from buying their products (I didn't buy into DVD either until it had solid open source support, which as a corollary implies that a format is rippable) and failed frequently enough to scare away other early adopters.

neither side is able to consistently gain the upper hand

That's an understatement. Fair use is still grossly inconvenient and/or illegal, and copyright infringement is practically unhindered. It looks to me like both sides are losing.

BR vs DVD (1)

bbroerman (715822) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542207)

Again, one more reason for me NOT to upgrade to HD / BlueRay... There is no incentive for me.

With 3 kids, I do not want to have to shell out THAT MUCH money when the scratch / break a disc. That's why my originals are NOT on the shelves. I also like having my homebrew HTPC... I can have my DVDs on hard drive, and watch/dvr my TV shows. I can't do that with HDTV or Blue Ray as effectively. Yes, I can get OTA ATSC, but that's what 4 channels out of the hundred or so I get now with Cable Ready and the hundreds I can get with a set top box connected to my DVR? With HDCP required, that blows that scheme out of the water. No homebrew DVR there...

Again, I see no compelling reason to upgrade.

screw bluray (1)

socsoc (1116769) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542285)

Until they make it worthwhile to legitimately purchase their discs and play it on my hardware (no, not the hardware that they approve, I mean the stuff that I want to play it on), I'm happy getting x264 rips and watching them on my popcorn hour.

Piracy Wars and the Halting Problem... (2, Insightful)

nweaver (113078) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542333)

"Piracy wars are not solved by solving the halting problem. Piracy wars are solved by making the other poor bastard solve the halting problem..."

This is actually a really clever and somewhat unexpected approach that the BluRay DRM folks have hit on. Rather than doing DRM, have a program and basically force those who are cracking the disks to crack every title differently. Its basically force those who want to develop ripping software to do AV style analysis on every new disk that comes out.

Yes, the DRM on any individual disk will always fall eventually because all the data must be on the disk and recoverable from the disk by the player. But it makes it very VERY annoying for those writing the unauthorized decryption software.

Silly BLU-Ray and your silly child's disks (2, Funny)

AtomicDevice (926814) | more than 4 years ago | (#28542407)

30Gb can't possibly deliver the definition I require for my 90,000p 200' television. That's why I use LTO tapes exclusively for my video pleasure.
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