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Virtualbox 3.0 Announces OpenGL/Direct3D Support

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the can-this-vm-be-simulated-though dept.

Graphics 161

bl8n8r writes "Apparently, Virtualbox 3.0 released today (2009-07-01) brings with it 'OpenGL 2.0 for Windows, Linux and Solaris guests; and experimental support for Direct3D 8/9 applications on Windows guests.' Maybe we can finally game in a VM?"

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Finally? (4, Funny)

RichardJenkins (1362463) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551061)

What do you mean finally? I'm playing Minesweeper in a VM now.

Re:Finally? (2, Informative)

rachit (163465) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551075)

You could also do this using VMware player, which is free.

Re:Finally? (3, Interesting)

royallthefourth (1564389) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551093)

You can also do this in VirtualBox, which is free and full featured (for non-commercial use.)

Re:Finally? (5, Informative)

RichardJenkins (1362463) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551523)

The free to use 'personal user end license' does actually allow you to use VirtualBox in a commercial environment, as long as you install it and use it yourself. Check out their FAQ at http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Licensing_FAQ [virtualbox.org] If you can live without USB connectivity then the GPL version is also pretty fully featured, and their 'seemless' mode is really really cool.

Re:Finally? (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551853)

Is the absence of USB passthrough from the GPL version related to the licence(s) of USB passthrough code they licenced from somebody else, or was that just a convenient feature to omit for price discrimination purposes?

Re:Finally? (4, Informative)

pablomme (1270790) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552209)

The latter. See here [virtualbox.org] , where they say

The VirtualBox Open Source Edition (OSE) is the one that has been released under the GPL and comes with complete source code. It is functionally equivalent to the full VirtualBox package, except for a few features that primarily target enterprise customers. This gives us a chance to generate revenue to fund further development of VirtualBox. [emphasis mine]

Re:Finally? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28552621)

I find it quite cool that they just say it. Why not!? Good for them!

Re:Finally? (1)

FictionPimp (712802) | more than 5 years ago | (#28553127)

We use the the GPL version in our classrooms. It makes teaching technology a lot easier when the student is just one rollback away after a fuckup.

Re:Finally? (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552269)

Does VMWare have anything equivalent to
VBoxHeadless -s XP?

I know most people running 3D acceleration will be doing it locally, but with a quad core processor and a hefty Video Card I can do a ton of batch processing in photoshop using RemoteDesktop on a computer with under 1GHz.

Re:Finally? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551081)

I'm playing /. in a VM. How do you win this game? I'm always defeated with a -5 troll. YOU DAMN LINUX NUT JOBS!

Re:Finally? (2, Funny)

stefanlasiewski (63134) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551345)

Wow. What are your frame rates? Do the tile bevels look any better? ;)

Re:Finally? (2, Funny)

hedwards (940851) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552087)

No, but just wait until we get physics acceleration support. The explosions will be truly breathtaking.

Vmware (1)

FreeFull (1043860) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551071)

I remember VMware implementing this several months ago. It was experimental, I don't know about it's status right now.

Re:Vmware (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551117)

it doesn't work on my ATI card (older X1900) under Linux with a Vista 32-bit guest under a 64-bit host with no hardware virt. It technically speeds things up a little, but crashes my display manager under linux after a while.

Re:Vmware (3, Informative)

MrCoke (445461) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551175)

It only works on Windows guests. Only DirectX is supported, not OpenGL.

Re:Vmware (5, Informative)

adisakp (705706) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551259)

I remember VMware implementing this several months ago. It was experimental, I don't know about it's status right now.

Ummm... actually, it's been a feature in VMWare for several years... It was experimental in VMWare 5.0 [vmware.com] but it has been standard in the past three major releases: 5.5, 6.0 and 6.5. FWIW, VMWare tends to do major updates in 0.5 increments and you can go from 5.0->5.5 and 6.0->6.5 for free... It's a nice way for only paying for half your major upgrades. Minor upgrades are a smaller decimal value added on (i.e. 5.51, 5.52, etc) and those are always free.

Re:Vmware (can burn in Hell) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28552627)

VMware refuses to implement ALSA sound for a Linux host. I condemn VMware straight to Hell.

Re:Vmware (4, Insightful)

RDaneel2 (533639) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552851)

Ummm... for those playing along at home, you are talking about the Workstation product - which as you note, costs money.

The Server product, which is free, does not support the more interesting graphics APIs.

I wouldn't count on it (3, Interesting)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551073)

"Experimental" generally means "full of tons of bugs." 3D virtualization seems like it is just hard to do, at this point. VMWare has been working on it and at this point it isn't even "experimental" in the latest version of VMWare Workstation. Well it works... kinda. It's fairly slow and there are some rendering errors. I can get WoW to run, but it isn't all that playable.

I've been watching this sort of thing with interest since old games are one of the things I'm very fond of. However at this point, 3D VMs seem to be an experimental playtoy, not something that can be used for serious gaming.

Re:I wouldn't count on it (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551105)

i am able to play sof2 fullscreen with high specs on my xp virtualmachine, running in gentoo. 3d accel works great. still iffed about starcraft not stretching to screen-size though -_____-

Re:I wouldn't count on it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551799)

Start of frame 2? Wouldn't you be in trouble if you got two of those in one frame?

Re:I wouldn't count on it (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552709)

Try running the VM with RDP (from vbox, not from windows itself) and connect to that.

While the normal SDL output of vbox won't scale, most RDP clients will.

Since you are (probably) doing this over localhost, crank that shit up and it should work just fine :D

Re:I wouldn't count on it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28552743)

What is SOF2?

Secret of Fire?
Stars of Fate?
Standing over Fan?

Re:I wouldn't count on it (1)

earls (1367951) | more than 5 years ago | (#28553133)

Soldier of Fortune 2

Re:I wouldn't count on it (3, Interesting)

royallthefourth (1564389) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551107)

How about Parallels?

This can be done well, it just hasn't yet been done well on a Linux host.

Re:I wouldn't count on it (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551131)

"...not something that can be used for serious gaming."

WTF?

Sorry, I didn't know I was speaking to a "professional". :-/

Re:I wouldn't count on it (1)

Meshach (578918) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551181)

"Experimental" generally means "full of tons of bugs."

Not necessarily. Recently companies have been redefining what words like "experimental", "beta", and "release" mean. Just look at GMail (the obvious example).

My main point is that the software may not be as bad as we think.

If it wasn't for window limitations... (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551187)

I would think it would be actually easier to implement a VM for an OpenGL window, at least in terms of calls goes. I would be willing to bet that there are less calls in OpenGL than there are in a rich 2d API. There's only so many ways to slice a polygon.

But at least on Windows there's historically been the issue of making an OpenGL window a child of the main window and other weird stuff like that, and I believe the same issue applies to DirectX. I can't say I know enough about Linux to know whether or not it has the same problem.

Re:If it wasn't for window limitations... (2, Interesting)

Hatta (162192) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551863)

Passing OpenGL calls through is easier, and has actually been done for a while now. Reimplementing DirectX is considerably harder, I think they used Wine code for a lot of that.

Re:If it wasn't for window limitations... (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552639)

Reimplementing DirectX is considerably harder, I think they used Wine code for a lot of that.

I could see that. COM sure makes a mess of things....

What I would wonder though, is if really the right end of things is to look at the WDM model that Vista uses as a basis for a virtualization architecture. At least that way you could have to worry about a single driver with a single set of 3d calls that covers both DirectX and OpenGL.

Re:I wouldn't count on it (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552693)

When I tested (was vbox 2.x) I could play Quake 3 in a WinXP (32-bit) VM at over 60fps consistently (1024x768x32, everything on and up excepting anti-aliasing)

Host system:
Amd Phenom II X4 (4x 3.0ghz), nVidia 9800 GTX+

So, yes it could be faster. But it's not all that slow either.

I hope to test out vbox 3.x - I'm assuming it will be better.

I can't wait for the days where when Wine fails, you can just fire up a VM!

Re:I wouldn't count on it (5, Informative)

SpinyNorman (33776) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552763)

However at this point, 3D VMs seem to be an experimental playtoy, not something that can be used for serious gaming.

It makes no sense to lump OpenGL and Direct3D together as "3D" when you're talking about VirtualBix, since they are implemented in very different ways.

VirtualBox OpenGL is basically just as pass-thru to the host driver. The guest box additions includes a virtual OpenGL driver that just passes the commands thru to the the host and the real driver. There must be some performance hit, but the approach seems simple enough.

VirtualBox Direct3D is implemented using the WINE driver that converts Direct3D calls into OpenGL which then get tunneled through to the host OpenGL driver as in the OpenGL case. VirtuaBox Direct3D should therefore be similar in functionality to that in WINE. One upside to the approach is that you don't need a Windows host to have D3D guest aceleration.

Re:I wouldn't count on it (2, Interesting)

Michael Hunt (585391) | more than 5 years ago | (#28553257)

The problem, as I understand it, isn't that 3D hardware is difficult to handle in a VM (it's not, really, you simply paravirtualise calls to the 3D hardware and translate them into libGL calls in the VM host software). The problem is that doing so in Windows is practically impossible, because of MS's licensing terms for the DDKs you need. Smart move on their part, of course, if Paravirtual D3D was considered a first-order citizen of windows in the same way that NVidia or ATI D3D was, then nobody would have any really compelling reason to use windows as any sort of on-the-metal OS.

While this holds true for both directx lower-level drivers and ICDs to suit MS OpenGL, it's possible to simply REIMPLEMENT OpenGL, as everything (barring perhaps the "WGL" parts specific to windows, i'm honestly unsure about that) is nicely standardised. This doesn't help with DirectX, so the approach to date has been to replace d3d8.dll and d3d9.dll with mingw-compiled versions of the Wine D3D dlls, which simply wrap DX in OpenGL.

why virtual ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551145)

i have a HD4870X2+4850 CFed...why not use one of the cores for the VM or both of the 4870X2 cores and leave the other for the host ?
its easy to have multiple GPUs now s why not just take advantage of them ?

Re:why virtual ? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551427)

You must get the host and guest OS to play nicely with each other. You can't just let both OSs directly access the hardware: what would show up on your monitor?

Re:why virtual ? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551543)

Because AFAIK the address space is only virtualized for CPU programs. You cannot do address space translation for other hardware that does DMA. That's why the VMs offer virtual devices, not the real ones.

The big win for me (1)

stox (131684) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551155)

It can use FreeBSD as a host O/S.

Re:The big win for me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551383)

It can? That's news to me. Their website doesn't say as much and as far as the last time I checked it was still extremely experimental and the kernel hackers were still pinging away at it? Don't get me wrong I would be extremely overjoyed to be able to run FreeBSD as a host OS. So, you have links?

Re:The big win for me (1)

beardz (790974) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551977)

Re:The big win for me (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552739)

http://wiki.freebsd.org/VirtualBox [freebsd.org]
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/emulators/virtualbox/ [freebsd.org]

I'm fairly certain thats 2.x

I don't think everything works under freebsd though.

Re:The big win for me (1)

beardz (790974) | more than 5 years ago | (#28553045)

Yes, it is 2.2.51, but baby steps, baby steps :)

Re:The big win for me (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551457)

There has been an unsupported port for a little while now which except for some network and cdrom issues seemed to do ok.

That said, i don't see 3.0 out on freshports yet. Where did you see 3.x is supported officially?

Virtual box (3, Interesting)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551161)

I use Virtual box on a pair of mac intel core duo 2 machines to run windows XP pro I'm very pleased with it. It essentially works perfectly. I don't care that it is only single processor since All I want is basic seemless windows functionality for those few cases where software is windows only.

it works well with USB devices. I use it to program Lego Mindostorms, and for Midi (to USB) keyboard input and some thumb drives.

it will mount any folder on my mac disk either permenantly or temporarily (these show us as X: or Y: or whatever). What's mildly annoying is that this is 2 step process: first you tell the VM to "add the drive" then you have to use a windows "run" command "net use x: " to tell windows about it. the second step seems strange to me, but you only do it one time.

I've had three things I could not figure out.

I never was able to get a windows media player to mount in media player mode so I could use windows DRM protected WMA files on it and manage it from within windows media player 11. Instead it only will mount as a thumb drive.

I was not able to get a virtual CD device to mount an iso image or burn an iso image (as a work around for getting the WMA files in a format I could play).

It will not burn a CD or DVD.

also I never figured out how to add my Samsung C310 printer to it or my HP multifunction printer to it. it does see them, it just never finds the drivers. However I'm pretty certain this is a windows driver problem and nothing to do with the VM.

I don't game so open GL means squat to me.

Re:Virtual box (3, Informative)

stevied (169) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551309)

.. then you have to use a windows "run" command "net use x: " to tell windows about it. the second step seems strange to me, but you only do it one time.

If you can figure out how to browse the *whole* network in Windows, which IIRC isn't immediately obvious, you can do it in the GUI (and in fact don't even need to map a drive - just save shortcut.) Right clicking on network neighbourhood and saying "explore" is the trick, I think. Alongside the "Microsoft Windows Network" object there's a "VirtualBox Shared Folders" which contains all the shared folders.

But you're right, I wouldn't have thought it was that hard to make the appropriate window pop open automagically.

Re:Virtual box (1)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551407)

.. then you have to use a windows "run" command "net use x: " to tell windows about it. the second step seems strange to me, but you only do it one time.

If you can figure out how to browse the *whole* network in Windows, which IIRC isn't immediately obvious, you can do it in the GUI (and in fact don't even need to map a drive - just save shortcut.) Right clicking on network neighbourhood and saying "explore" is the trick, I think. Alongside the "Microsoft Windows Network" object there's a "VirtualBox Shared Folders" which contains all the shared folders.

But you're right, I wouldn't have thought it was that hard to make the appropriate window pop open automagically.

.. then you have to use a windows "run" command "net use x: " to tell windows about it. the second step seems strange to me, but you only do it one time.

If you can figure out how to browse the *whole* network in Windows, which IIRC isn't immediately obvious, you can do it in the GUI (and in fact don't even need to map a drive - just save shortcut.) Right clicking on network neighbourhood and saying "explore" is the trick, I think. Alongside the "Microsoft Windows Network" object there's a "VirtualBox Shared Folders" which contains all the shared folders.

But you're right, I wouldn't have thought it was that hard to make the appropriate window pop open automagically.

What you say "should be true". It says so in the virtual box manual. How I found the devices did not show up in the network neighbor hood. So I had to use the run command. I admit I was baffled by the network neighborhood on windows. it seems like their are different views of varying completeness depending on how you get the explorer window (or whatever it's called) to bring it up. So it could be that I'm just a windows spaz. but I don't think so. I think windows is simply unreliable when exploring the VM's server interface. I tried to do it multiple times probably altogehter for a couple hours before I decided to use the run command.

and having to hand type a run-command is a frustrating experience. (sorry I just have to say I'm glad I don't use Windows a lot). here's my rant. you need to actually run the program "command" to bring up a shell that you then enter the net use x: command. if you don't and instead directly run the command itself, windows flashes a shell on the screen for 10 nanoseconds while it runs the command then closes the shell window. there is no feedback if the command ran correctly. since the command is a little complex and you have to get the long directory paths typed exactly perfectly, you need feedback.

Would it be really so hard to have the "run" command have a "run...." version that pulls up a command window right from the start window. I mean I can't even think of any use case where running a shell command and not seeing if it worked could be of any possible value. you nearly always want to see what the shell did right?

Re:Virtual box (1)

stevied (169) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551581)

Network configuration just seems to get worse and worse in later versions of Windows. I set up a Vista box for my neighbour and I still can't get my head around the "architecture" of all the different networking views. God alone knows what W7 will be like.

Win2K made sense,, XP was still reasonably sane, but I think you might be right in thinking there's a bug (either in XP or the VBox addons) that mean the shared folders aren't always visible depending on how you use explorer.

Alternatively, typing "\\vboxsvr\" in the run box, or the explorer address box, should do the trick. I would test but I deleted my last Windows VM (finally!)

Re:Virtual box (1)

sirsnork (530512) | more than 5 years ago | (#28554013)

Windows 7 is much better in this regard. I think MS worked out they screwed it up and have backpeddled some.

Re:Virtual box (1)

leamanc (961376) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551471)

I just see "VirtualBox Shared Folders" in My Network Places and am able to get to the Mac folders I shared. I have ready about people having to use "net" command, but it's always worked out of the box for me.

Using VirtualBox on Linux, however, I have had to use the command and map the drive manually.

Re:Virtual box (2, Informative)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552459)

I might be able to help with the WMP problem, as I ran into that one a few years back with a customers MP3 player. it turned out Windows was using an MTP driver and it needs to be using IIRC MSC to sync. Anyway Here (faq#10) [sansa.com] is a patch for the problem, I don't know if it will work in a VM or not, and if it doesn't you might want to look up a little about WMP and MTP/MSC problems as there are several tutorials on how to repair that particular error. i hope this helps.

Re:Virtual box (1)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 5 years ago | (#28553839)

thanks. maybe I'll waste some more time on the issue!

Re:Virtual box (2, Insightful)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552787)

Gaming isn't the only thing that uses OpenGL.

3D content creation comes to mind (blender, maya, 3dstudio, etc)

But, as well, some audio programs I've used can use it for their UI (flstudio...)

To hell with OpenGL and Direct3D (1)

Amazing Quantum Man (458715) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551167)

When the hell are they going to support GRE over NAT? Some of us don't have any choice -- our company uses PPTP VPNs.

Re:To hell with OpenGL and Direct3D (1)

stevied (169) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551403)

Could you not just use bridged mode (or "host interface networking" or whatever it's called this week) instead of NAT?

Re:To hell with OpenGL and Direct3D (1)

stevied (169) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551635)

Hmm, looks like bridged mode doesn't always play nicely with wireless.

Host-only mode with pptpproxy [mgix.com] or parprouted [freshmeat.net] might do the trick - there's a recipe for using the latter here [archive.org] .

Re:To hell with OpenGL and Direct3D (1)

Dadoo (899435) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551889)

No offense (since I'm sure you're not the one who made the decision), but when are companies going to stop using VPNs that use odd protocols, like GRE? We use OpenVPN, here. It works great, and only requires UDP, so I can NAT and tunnel it anywhere I want.

Re:To hell with OpenGL and Direct3D (2, Informative)

forsetti (158019) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552583)

"Odd protocols, like GRE?"
Hmmm .. not a network guy, are you? Should I use a standardized, widely implemented protocol like GRE, or a single-implementation solution like OpenVPN. Don't get me wrong, I love OpenVPN and thing those guys have a fantastic cross-platform solution ... but GRE isn't exactly an "odd protocol".

Re:To hell with OpenGL and Direct3D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28553473)

When the hell are they going to support GRE over NAT? Some of us don't have any choice -- our company uses PPTP VPNs.

It's been supported since v.2.2, idiot. And VPN works just fine. Set the network to 'Bridged adapter' and you're good to go.

Not perfect but pretty good (4, Interesting)

Jimmy_B (129296) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551177)

I played around with this a bit in the beta. It's significantly slower than native and has a fair share of graphics glitches, but it was good enough to take my dual-monitor computer, plug in a second keyboard and mouse, and play two games of Warcraft III against eachother simultaneously using only one box.

w00t! Kidz are Happy! (1)

filesiteguy (695431) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551231)

As I use Linux (Ubuntu and openSUSE) on my primary home machines, I tend to run the Windows stuff - aside from Office 2007 - in VB. My kids have always complained about the game play.

Maybe not now. :P

It worked great when they were younger and Tux Paint, SuperTux, Chromium, TORCS, TuxRacer were what they wanted, but now they NEED to play the "in" gamez.

<sigh>

I'll just go back to playing my games on Stella and GFCE.

Re:w00t! Kidz are Happy! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551699)

As I use Linux (Ubuntu and openSUSE) on my primary home machines, I tend to run the Windows stuff - aside from Office 2007 - in VB.

You run Windows stuff in Visual Basic? No wonder your kids complain.

Re:w00t! Kidz are Happy! (2, Funny)

filesiteguy (695431) | more than 5 years ago | (#28553479)

I'd laugh, except that I'm still supporting a 90's era VB6 program, which is written with Office in mind such that Excel spreadsheets are opened, closed and eventually that data are saved to a sql server... ...you'd think that being a PHB, I'd not have to do VB programming anymore.

Re:w00t! Kidz are Happy! (2, Interesting)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 5 years ago | (#28553625)

I feel for you. I've spent the last couple of weeks trying to beat an Access 2000 VBA application into submission. I've got the current holes plugged, but next Monday I'm telling the guy I'm doing the work for that I'd rather recode it in Lisp than ever ever ever have to deal with VBA again. All VBA and VB ever did was allow people who had no business programming to create programs, and somehow so many of those programs ended up outlasting the original guys who made them.

Gaming with Hardware rendering perhaps... (1)

atari2600 (545988) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551267)

I used a much older version of Vmware (4.x) to install WxP and run Unreal Tournament using Software Rendering. The game was playable, didn't look pretty and the FPS were a bit on the low end, but the game was playable. Won't Windows 7 support D3D over RDP?

Does this even matter? (1)

SilverHatHacker (1381259) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551279)

Pardon my ignorance, but aren't most games using DirectX and not OpenGL, hence the lack of serious games for Linux?

Re:Does this even matter? (2, Informative)

compro01 (777531) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551325)

That's why the Direct3D bit is a big deal. Direct3D is the 3D part of DirectX.

Re:Does this even matter? (3, Insightful)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551369)

Well, hopefully this could put people over the edge to use Linux full-time (myself included). Many people currently use Windows for gaming, and don't dual-boot because it's a hassle. If I could run in Linux 24/7, and run my games without rebooting, either in a VM or in Wine, that would be excellent.

Re:Does this even matter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28553227)

I'd rather do the opposite and run Linux in the VM. Too much great Windows software and not enough good Linux software to have Linux as the host.

Wine and Games (1)

Bilbo (7015) | more than 5 years ago | (#28553291)

BTW - Wine is pretty hit-and-miss with games, but when it works, it's beautiful. If you haven't tried wine recently, you should go back and look at it again. Unfortunately, Ubuntu still insists on using the "stable" 1.1.x release, which is a couple of years old now I think! You may even need to download the sources and rebuild, or just try it under a Fedora release.

That being said, I'm going to be interested in seeing how the 3D works in VirtualBox.....

Maybe? (1)

bhsx (458600) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551485)

Maybe we can finally game in a VM? Try it. I get about 12fps in Guild Wars on a 3.4G p4 with 2GB ram and a 512MB nvidia 9500. Yeah 15 frames per second. Guild Wars runs perfect on half this hardware on Windows. Unfortunately Wine has quite a performance hit on this machine as well, so I'm still stuck with Windows for GW.

Re:Maybe? (1)

Zygfryd (856098) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551663)

Under Wine I usually get between 20-45fps on a two generations older 7600gs, in windowed more with around 1400x1000 resolution. Definitely very playable, outside of crowded outposts like Kamadan.

Re:Maybe? (1)

bhsx (458600) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552463)

I've always had issues with the armor not looking right in wine, I switched from ATI to the 9500 for that reason alone. Now the armor shows correctly, but it's still too slow to be playable. Obviously, this machine is a few years old and not comparable to more "modern" hardware, but it's what I have. Plus, I mostly just go to Random Arenas... it's always crowded there :)

Re:Maybe? (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551957)

I run Battlezone (1998 fps/rts hybrid) in VMWare Workstation on my Core i7 in software rendering mode at 1280x1024 and it's doing at least 60fps. I have yet to try WoW or any other recent game, but for software rendering in a VM, I'm still impressed.

Sadly, the game is incredibly buggy and requires DirectX 6 so the D3D hardware support doesn't set up properly.

tl;dr: You can game in a VM, if you have enough RAM and CPU cycles to throw at it.

Re:Maybe? (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552805)

You should try it on a processor with virtualization extensions. Muuuuch better.

BILLY MAYS HERE (4, Funny)

BillyMays (1587805) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551579)

With virtualbox from Sun! now with three-d acceleration!

You've got problems, we all know what it's like not being able to develop on windows - but you can't seem to give up counterstrike! Notepad carriage return issues, archaic command line functions, the works - all gone in a jiffy with Virtualbox(tm)!

Want to pwn noobs from the comfort of a linux environment!? No problem. Toss xp on there, Bam! It's done!
Want to show people your awp skills while still being able to strace!? Easy as boom-headshot with virtualbox!

Call now and for no extra cost we'll throw in the latest jre for absolutely free!

Re:BILLY MAYS HERE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551733)

Lame.

Re:BILLY MAYS HERE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28552441)

Mr. Mays: Just be sure you don't try hawking that DRM laden new CD from Michael Jackson. You know, the one with Farrah Fawcett on the cover? It's the one titled "From Beyond". You really don't have to work anyway, I hear Ed Mcmahon has a check for you.

Re:BILLY MAYS HERE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28552557)

I'd post AC with shit like that.

Re:BILLY MAYS HERE (2, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552643)

...Except for the fact his /. user name is... BillyMays.... Which kinda adds to the joke

Re:BILLY MAYS HERE (1)

weirdo557 (959623) | more than 5 years ago | (#28553579)

billy mays is alive!

No Aero Glass yet... (1)

W3bbo (727049) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551639)

Having just installed the x64 3.0 binaries for Windows and given Windows 7 and Windows Vista a spin in VirtualBox I can say that both OSes fail to recognise the 3D capabilities since the driver isn't WDDM-compatible. So Media Center, Aero Glass, and the new games in Vista/Win7 all fail to show in their fully accelerated glory. Interestingly, VirtualPC 7 in Windows 7 does support Aero Glass when you have Vista as a guest.

Re:No Aero Glass yet... (2, Insightful)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552819)

Interestingly enough, both WIndows 7 and VirtualPC come from Redmond, WA.

Finally? I've been doing that in VMware for ages (2, Informative)

phantomcircuit (938963) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551693)

The Direct3d support is not designed for gaming, but it works for the most part. I have found a few games which do not work, Fallout 3 America's Army 3, but also many which do work, Counter Strike Source America's Army 2 Team Fortress 2 Rise of Nations.

Re:Finally? I've been doing that in VMware for age (2, Interesting)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552837)

Games are the last bastion for a seperate Windows install.

The audio stuff (Reason, FLStudio) etc work perfectly well under VirtualBox now.

You need to use ASIO4ALL to get asio working, but once done and fiddled with... hah! 10ms audio latency in a freakin' virtual machine! That is just so awesome to me!

Re:Finally? I've been doing that in VMware for age (1)

ZosX (517789) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552947)

thanks for sharing this. reason has long been a reason to keep me in windows only land. if I could get all my productivity stuff under vmware, it might not be so bad.

Anyone try X-Wing/Tie Figher/XvT ? (2, Funny)

erroneus (253617) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551781)

This could be the upgrade I've been waiting for... now all I have to do is dig up an old copy. Has anyone tried it already?

Re:Anyone try X-Wing/Tie Figher/XvT ? (1)

hansamurai (907719) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552721)

I'm sure DOSBox runs great within Virtual Box... but will they read my old floppies?

Data loss bug (5, Interesting)

l00sr (266426) | more than 5 years ago | (#28551817)

Unfortunately, looks like they still haven't fixed bug 1040 [virtualbox.org] , or even upgraded its priority from 'minor.' The gist of it is, do not even think about touching anything in the GUI relating to the 'snapshot' feature, unless you really, absolutely, positively understand what you're doing. The wording is very confusing, and can easily lead to data loss scenarios. Unfortunately, since this is a human interface flaw, and not a programming error, it seems like it's not really being taken seriously. In my mind, sadly, this is exactly the sort of macho hacker mentality that keeps OSS from mainstream acceptance.

Re:Data loss bug (1)

selven (1556643) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552535)

I don't know, I've seen lots of people complaining about their 1040s.

Re:Data loss bug (1)

blueg3 (192743) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552655)

Seems minor to me; reading the appropriate documentation makes it quite clear exactly what these options do.

Re:Data loss bug (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28553341)

I read and re-read the doc, and I still can't figure out how to merge my snapshot so as to make them my main image. I'm stuck with an outdated main disk image and external snapshots that take up space were I'd rather just run the snapshots and get rid of the old image.
From what I understand of the doc, I can revert to the old image, discard the snapshot, but not merge them to have the latest snapshot as my main disk.

Re:Data loss bug (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28553955)

The documentation doesn't make it clear at all. You have to delete from top to bottom to get all of the snapshot consolidated into the hard disk image? Even when the snapshot tree descends down and to the right? "Revert to current snapshot", "Discard current snapshot" whatever those mean...

Most of the time you just create a bunch of snapshots to before installing a new thing in the guest OS, and once it's all working, you need to collapse all of the snapshots into the disk image or you will lose everything you've changed since the first snapshot, because copying just the .vdi does not give you all of the snapshot data. There should be one large button at the bottom, "Merge all snapshots" or something like that.

Re:Data loss bug (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552865)

Well, since this is not a programming error, a fix from you should be easily forthcoming :P

The other argument, is you should probably read the documentation before you go running amok with it - at least where data loss might be concerned.

Re:Data loss bug (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28553733)

Damn it!

This was what I was checking for when I dove into the comments here.

Its essentially unusable until they fix this. There've been hints in the VB forums for a long time that this will 'soon' be resolved but ... I guess we're all just dumber than the developers.

Direction? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28551881)

Is that the right direction for VirtualBox? Shouldn't they add some virtual machine management features first? I think snapshot trees instead of links would be a much more helpful feature than being able to somewhat use a performance-sensitive feature in a virtual environment. Transferring virtual machines to a different host without having to recreate them by hand would be a nice feature too.

...I grow weary... (2, Interesting)

thatkid_2002 (1529917) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552291)

How many times do I have to tell people that gaming in VMs just doesn't work. Yes, this feature will add support for a lot of graphically accelerated applications and probably even the older games, but the fact is that you still cannot beat direct graphics access!

Virtualbox uses the D3D to OpenGL code from Wine (which I love very much). We aren't talking about DirectX from Windows pushed through to your graphics card.

However don't get me wrong, it will eventually be possible! Gallium3D will have the architecture to support DirectX in Linux (as I understand it anyway, please correct if this is false) which means that you could do a Virtualized Windows direct connection (passthrough) to the graphics driver which should be nearly as good as native performance!

Drag'n'Drop? (2, Interesting)

yet-another-lobbyist (1276848) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552439)

They had USB, seamless mode, folder sharing, and clipboard (txt) support since version 1.x. Most of the additions that had been done since didn't really matter to me. What's really missing for a more seamless integration for me is support for drag and drop of files and other objects between host and guest. Other VMs support such functionality, so I wonder why VBox isn't doing it, despite all their fancy efforts.

This is not Linux's salvation (1)

selven (1556643) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552519)

OpenGL games tend to be very easy to get working on Wine, unlike Direct3D games, so this will just give us one more way to run what we already can. Direct3D games will continue to be Windows territory.

Security (1)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 5 years ago | (#28552867)

Isn't allowing guests this much access to the graphics card a terrible idea! Given that even the limited, well implemented, xbox360 hypervisor still let exploits slip through, implementing this must mitigates the security benefits of the VM. I'm under the impression that you used to needed elevated privileges on unix system to prevent potential exploits by executing code on the graphics card and modifying memory DMA and all that, over time it seems the potential for these exploits has got worse; graphics cards are pretty powerful and complex, graphics drivers are often buggy (and i assume porly vented for vulnerabilities), laptops are widespread and use the same memory as the OS, yet the protection has been dropped in favor of ease of use.

And if the above comments that they are using wine to get directx->opengl conversion, compatibility can't be better than wine anyway so it's unlikely that people will take a performance hit for compatibility that can't be much better.

disclaimer: I no next to nothing about graphics / virtual machines and not that much about security either tbh, so you are welcome to correct me...

Changing from VMware to VirtualBox (3, Interesting)

Bilbo (7015) | more than 5 years ago | (#28553223)

Cool! After the umpteenth million time of not being able to build VMware Server under the latest kernel version, and this time NOT being able to find yet-another-vmware-any patch to fix it, I finally abandoned VMware (at least for personal use) and switched back to VirtualBox. Looks like I made the right decision right, just in time.

I'm still using VMware for server virtualization at work, but for running one of Uncle Bill's products on my desktop, it looks like VirtualBox is a better solution.

I will be interested in seeing how it works with USB. That's always been a bug-a-boo for me--getting USB devices to talk to the VM. This release sounds like they've cleaned up some things. I will be really interested in how it performs with some of my games that require 3D. (I'm talking like Guild Wars, not the latest releases.)

Not stable (2, Insightful)

paimin (656338) | more than 5 years ago | (#28553609)

At least running on an OS X 10.5.7 host, 3D is definitely not yet stable - even OpenGL which is not listed as "experimental".

See here: http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19352 [virtualbox.org]

Other than that, VirtualBox is very polished in general. 3D is just not a feature that works yet, and should not be used in a production environment.
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