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Bethesda Speaks On Gamebryo Engine, Final Fallout 3 DLC

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the more-and-better dept.

Games 101

PsxMeUP writes "Game Observer conducted an interview with Ashley Cheng, Production Director at Bethesda. He answered questions about the Gamebryo engine, why they prefer it over other engines and the advantages it presented while making Fallout 3. Cheng also talks a bit about what inspired their designers while making Fallout 3 and what is in store for the PS3. Apparently, much of the team has read Cormac McCarthy's The Road, which inspired the look and story of Fallout 3. Bethesda, according to Cheng, will never create a game like Final Fantasy because the Gamebryo engine is better at handling 'open ended worlds ripe for exploration.'" Meanwhile, Bethesda's Jeff Gardiner spoke recently about the game's fifth and final DLC release, Mothership Zeta, which finds players aboard an alien spaceship in orbit. He said, "The player will have a handful of tasty alien technologies to play with. There are new fire arms and melee weapons, which will comprise the most powerful weaponry in the game."

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101 comments

Wierd quote in the article (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28638939)

"I hate Jews. Everybody does. They give you so many reasons, it's hard not to hate Jews."

-Bethesda

This guy definitely know what he is talking about.

Re:Wierd quote in the article (1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639319)

As an established Slashdot user of good repute, I can confirm that the article does in fact state this.

Mod parent up accordingly.

Recycling skins and textures from other games? (1)

camazotz (1242344) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639077)

Alien spaceship? Seems like a bit of a deviation from the Fallout universe, unless I've missed something....well, I'll still get it, damn them and their amazingly competent game design!

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (1)

fyrie (604735) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639121)

SPOILER!!!

It's probably related to the crashed alien spacecraft in the original FO3 content.

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (3, Informative)

oneirophrenos (1500619) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639167)

Alien spaceship? Seems like a bit of a deviation from the Fallout universe, unless I've missed something....

You have. There was a discoverable crashed alien ship in the original game as well as the third installment. The DLC is just extrapolation on the concept.

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (1)

kalirion (728907) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639213)

I also remember finding that solar powered alien raygun in Fallout 2 (or was that Fallout 1?) which was extremely powerful in the early game.

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (1)

Dr. Impossible (1580675) | more than 4 years ago | (#28642057)

The alien gun was the most powerful weapon in Fallout 2, I think.

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (1)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 4 years ago | (#28642931)

It was powerful in terms of damage, but the limited range made it in effect "not as good" in the late game, where more super mutants and Enclave patrols are encountered, and getting close to those sorts of enemies was disadvantageous. The best general purpose weapon in Fallout 2 was probably the Red Ryder Limited Edition BB Gun [wikia.com] (another joke since the regular BB gun was arguably the worst rifle in the game), which also had a very high critical hit chance, although the M72 Gauss Rifle [wikia.com] was also quite good.

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (1)

scribblej (195445) | more than 4 years ago | (#28643491)

Also, in Fallout II, in the lowest deck of the giant ship (aircraft carrier? Can't remember) there were actual alien bad guys. Not greys, but they were labeled as aliens.

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (1)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639185)

Not really. There were all kinds of aliens in Fallout 2...Once you got to a high level, they'd attack you reasonably often in random encounters.

If anything, they're less common in Fallout 3. As it stands right now, I think there are a couple of "set piece" random encounters with alien stuff. This will just build on that.

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (1)

sound+vision (884283) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639499)

I didn't find the design of Oblivion to be "amazingly competent". It would be a lie to say that I didn't enjoy playing it (with re-balancing mods). But Morrowind was balanced so much better. And I suppose the Fallout games, though I've never played them. Which I probably should.

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (5, Funny)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 4 years ago | (#28640751)

not to mention their art department is apparently composed entirely of people using 10 inch laptop screens from 1997 with the brightness and gamma turned all the way down.

At least that would be my guess considering their obsession with making EVERYTHING glow like the freaking surface of the sun covered in a layer of radioactive maple syrup whenever HDR or bloom is on.

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (1)

sbrown123 (229895) | more than 3 years ago | (#28762007)

A huge divergence from most games which appear to be developed by color-blind people with the brightness on their monitor maxed out. All the industry appears to churn out is a constant stream of darkly lit, gray and brown games. Take the challenge and try something new for a change!

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (1)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 4 years ago | (#28640977)

In addition to the other examples given, the "Wanamingos" that inhabited the mine in one of the towns in Fallout 2.. I think it was Redding.. were identified as "Alien" when you targetted them. I think the 6-legged centaurs that hung around with Super Mutants were also identified the same.

Re:Recycling skins and textures from other games? (1)

GweeDo (127172) | more than 4 years ago | (#28641221)

Not really. There have been space aliens in each Fallout (in Fallout 3 it is a crashed one where you get the Alien Blaster). On top of that the original intent of the Enclave was to simply leave this planet in a space ship. So...not that far gone.

The Road (1)

flitty (981864) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639083)

Apparently, much of the team has read Cormac McCarthy's The Road, which inspired the look and story of Fallout 3.

I read The Road right before Fallout 3 came out, and the whole time i was playing it, I was sure someone was going to use the G.E.C.K. to re-create the story from the Road in F3. I was even tempted to do it myself, but with the movie release impending (2 versions of the same story is saturation for me) and my lack of time, I decided against it. Interesting that the Book influenced the game.

Re:The Road (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#28642247)

I kept thinking of The Road Warrior (aka "Mad Max 2"). They even had the dog.

Re:The Road (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28651781)

No, the closest prior art is "A Boy and His Dog", complete with more advanced civilizations living in underground vaults.

Re:The Road (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#28653843)

Oh great, that made me think of Don Johnson. Now I've got that damn Miami Vice theme song stuck in my head. Thanks, buddy!

New stuffs (1)

Blixinator (1585261) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639269)

I'm glad to hear that the new DLC will introduce some of the most powerful stuff in the game. Point Lookout didn't give me anything new to carry around as part of my arsenal.

Re:New stuffs (3, Informative)

PrescriptionWarning (932687) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639311)

If you have the PC version, FOOK is a terrific mod that adds tons of weapons to the game (though a couple are a bit unbalanced, such as a shotgun that does 300 damage)

Re:New stuffs (1)

BigJClark (1226554) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639609)


What they need is more powerful enemies. As soon as I learned the run-up-close-engage-vats-pump-burst-from-chinese-assualt-rifle-to-head-of-enemy trick, the game got _incredibly_ easy.

Re:New stuffs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28640543)

While I realize its not really your job to make the game challenging, perhaps you could not do that and opt to try some strategic encounters rather then time stop full auto goriness battles.

Re:New stuffs (1)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 4 years ago | (#28643039)

If you are going to do that then why not use the Combat Shotgun [wikia.com] instead? About the only weapon that does more damage from a point blank range headshot is the plasma rifle [wikia.com]. A single point-blank blast from a well-repaired combat shotgun is usually enough to blow the head off most Super Mutants.

Re:New stuffs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28723411)

Pack of Feral Ghoul Reavers in Broken Steel, or in Point Lookout. Enjoy!

Re:New stuffs (1)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 4 years ago | (#28642005)

Gauss Cannon and T-51B Winterized armour didn't count?

(Went Deathclaw hunting with the Gauss cannon. Pop'em in the leg to slow them down, then start pumping rounds into the torso.)

Re:New stuffs (1)

joeystitch (1057842) | more than 4 years ago | (#28642085)

The double-barrel shotgun is nice. And you can reverse pickpocket the Workman's Coveralls onto NPCs to increase their Repair skill.

Re:New stuffs (1)

Aphoxema (1088507) | more than 4 years ago | (#28642135)

I don't know, I love the Chinese Stealth Armor but it kind of made the game too easy after that. The only thing I had any trouble with at that point were Albino Radscorpions when on Very Hard

Five DLC releases? (1)

Per Wigren (5315) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639337)

the game's fifth and final DLC release

Why can't I get a single fucking one of them for my PS3 then?
I loved Fallout 3 but thought it was a bit too short. If I had been able to buy the DLCs I would had done so but the more time that passes I get less and less likely to buy them when/if they get released because my interest has moved on to other games.

Re:Five DLC releases? (1, Informative)

Linegod (9952) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639507)

RTFA.

Turns out weâ(TM)ve announced that weâ(TM)re doing downloadable content for PS3 so itâ(TM)s coming. Weâ(TM)re also including them with Fallout 3 Game of the Year for PS3, coming out for this holiday season.

Re:Five DLC releases? (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#28640773)

The most recent news I've heard on PS3 content was that it would be available at the end of June, following a game update required to use it.

I don't know about you, but where I come from, it's now July.

No DLC, no update, no news.

Re:Five DLC releases? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28640779)

RTFP

While the content 'is coming'. It would have been nice if they released it before the game became a bore.

Bethesda said the content was coming out at the end of june, It's july and I'd like a note from them on when it will be ready. At this rate I'll be shooting aliens on the pc before i get the chance to kill some commies on my big screen.

Re:Five DLC releases? (1)

hawk16zz (960734) | more than 4 years ago | (#28679435)

... I'll be shooting aliens on the pc before i get the chance to kill some commies on my big screen.

That's why I my desktop hooked up to my TV through it's VGA port, but I still want to get a DVI/HDMI adapter so I can get a better picture and resolution.

Re:Five DLC releases? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28639531)

Why can't I get a single fucking one of them for my PS3 then?

This!

Re:Five DLC releases? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28639599)

DLC also sadly lacking from Steam.

too bad for bethesda, I hope they got a lot of money for giving exclusivity to Live...they're missing out on a lot of sales because of it.

Re:Five DLC releases? (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639697)

I bought the game from Steam, and I got Operation Anchorage from the MSN thing. It was a bit of a pain figuring out where to put the files, but it works perfectly well if you're willing to do the manual install.

Re:Five DLC releases? (5, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639825)

Nonsense! Bethesda has posted a helpful pdf right on their website entitled "Three simple steps to getting DLC on the PS3." I'll summarize it here:

1) Go to your local electronics retailer
2) Buy a Xbox 360
3) Download content

Problem solved!

Re:Five DLC releases? (1)

PainKilleR-CE (597083) | more than 4 years ago | (#28640729)

You forgot:
Buy another copy of our game!

Yeah, I already have the 360, but I bought the game for the PS3, because at the time the 360 had the little problem with utilizing the world's loudest DVD drive, only solved by the amazing option of installing the game to the hard drive and only checking the DVD to play the game.

Re:Five DLC releases? (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 4 years ago | (#28643697)

And here I thought that the correct course of action was to purchase it on the PC. Not only do you have access to said DLC, but tons and tons of user created content as well. Let's not forget the superior mouse/keyboard control scheme as well. Poor, poor console kiddies.

Re:Five DLC releases? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28640763)

Fallout 3 is too short?

I had 450+ hours into the game playing different characters *before* the DLCs came out . Now I have over 600 hours and each character brought new adventures not only because of a different skill set, but because of places in the game that I missed before or scenarios that played out differently.

If you think F3 is too short then your only skimming the surface.

Re:Five DLC releases? (1)

Per Wigren (5315) | more than 4 years ago | (#28645849)

Fallout 3 is too short?

I had 450+ hours into the game playing different characters *before* the DLCs came out . Now I have over 600 hours and each character brought new adventures not only because of a different skill set, but because of places in the game that I missed before or scenarios that played out differently.

If you think F3 is too short then your only skimming the surface.

I played the missions one after the other and can't say I did much aimless exploration. It took me about 20 hours of active gameplay before I reached the ending scene.

So yeah, I'm sure I just skimmed the surface. However, I don't get much out of aimless exploration, I want missions spread out all over the map.

BTW, when buying the DLCs, do you get to keep using the character you spent hours leveling up in the base game?

Gamebryo (1)

kenp2002 (545495) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639495)

For those that missed it the Gamebryo engine is a middleware piece (platform if you will) for game design. It was the front end for several MMOs, Civ4, and several other titles.

While we often think of the Unreal and Quake engines for FPS games Gamebryo is the more well rounded, less insaine sister of those two and actually puts out without being on drugs or booze!

Citation Needed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28640555)

Do you work for Emergent or something?

Re:Gamebryo (3, Interesting)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | more than 4 years ago | (#28641765)

Having seen & used the Gamebryo source back in 2003 (right when it got renamed from Netimmerse to Gamebryo) I wasn't too impressed. It uses its own version of RTTI, along with auto_ptr, and custom un/serializers. The PS2 version was decent though -- major optimizations using the VUs for skinning.

It was used on Elder Scrolls 3, which explain the horribly broken physics of getting stuck in geometry.

Re:Gamebryo (1)

kenp2002 (545495) | more than 4 years ago | (#28677487)

I still remember the hell they went through just to get helmets working. Big World is looking better and better as is Unreal's engine....

Re:Gamebryo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28645013)

It's the new Renderware!

Re:Gamebryo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28645911)

Be nice if the Gamebryo engine could be made to handle alt-tabbing to desktop and then actually manage to not completely fucking lock up when you alt-tab back to the game.

Right now for Fallout and Oblivion on the PC alt-tabbing out of full-screen mode is pretty much a guaranteed frozen game. You can save the game and exit to the main menu but even then alt-tabbing out is pretty much a crapshoot as to whether it'll freeze up. And even if it managed to not freeze up you still have to reload the saved game.

Total and complete pain the in the ass. Surprised they haven't bothered to fix it but I guess not pissing off customers isn't too high on the priority list.

Re:Gamebryo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28656485)

The only problem is Gamebryo is horribly unoptimised and slow compared to the Unreal and id Tech engines.

The Problem with Fallout3 (3, Insightful)

masmullin (1479239) | more than 4 years ago | (#28639831)

The problem with fallout 3 is that it was so close to being a FPS, but wasn't. I want to play it like a FPS but its just too inferior. I keep thinking to myself how awesome the game would have been if it was built on an FPS engine like the one used in Call of Duty 5

I also miss the Magic from Oblivion :(

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 4 years ago | (#28640681)

I liked it, myself. I'm comfortable with the controls of an FPS, so it made the game easy to control. Just doing point and shoot was useful to throw some bullets up when I needed to quickly, but the VATS thing let me be more precise a lot of the time. I tended to fire manually with a scoped weapon over long distance (since I could do better than the 2 or 3% that VATS was offering), and use the auto-shoot thing for closer shots. I just liked the balance and the range of choice.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

mqduck (232646) | more than 4 years ago | (#28640737)

I much preferred VATS, but to each their own. What was wrong with just ignoring it and playing the game like an FPS? All the guides I read talk about what builds are good for VATS and what are good for FPS-style playing.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

Whorhay (1319089) | more than 4 years ago | (#28641267)

I noticed when I first started playing that free aim mode was rather ineffective. Bullets hit nowhere near where I was aiming and where the crosshairs were. I haven't really experimented with it since, I pretty much only use the sniper rifle in free aim, for everything else I use VATS. So raising the appropriate skill for the weapon you are using might tighten up the shot pattern but I haven't played in such a way that I would notice.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (2, Informative)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 4 years ago | (#28641829)

Well, a few things. Your skill level for certain kinds of weapons matters; small arms vs big arms, etc. Also, the condition of the weapon mattered... the better the condition, the more accurate.

Finally, all weapons naturally have a scatter pattern; no bullet will exactly follow the course of the previous one. Not sure why this was done, maybe to make it a bit more real (as I'm sure you're not holding a gun totally still as you shoot).

When you first start playing you have low skill and badly damaged weapons; try again now. I like using the Chinese Assault Rifle because I can use it effectively with or without VATS.

But VATS is just cool... following the bullet from a rifle as it slowly makes a Ghouls head explode.. very fun.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28642625)

But VATS is just cool... following the bullet from a rifle as it slowly makes a Ghouls head explode.. very fun.

Indeed. The slow-mo and the change of perspective, and the admittedly raw humor of enemies losing body parts, keeps the game from getting too gloomy. Fallout 3 without VATS would simply have been too depressing. I mean Fallout 3 was obviously meant to be very emotional and slightly depressive, but it is a game. Games are suppose to be fun, after all.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

Elshar (232380) | more than 4 years ago | (#28801585)

One thing I wish I could do is turn OFF the bullet time slow-mo stuff in VATS. I get so tired of watching my bullets blow up yet another NPC's head. It was cool watching the first one pop off, and the second.. And by the 50th time, I was about ready to just stop playing the game. In fact, I haven't beaten it and I haven't really touched it in over a month because I know when I start playing it again I'll have to sit through bullet time for every kill just about and to me it's frustrating.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

dumael (1172411) | more than 4 years ago | (#28645101)

Starting out most of you skills are crap and your weapons are in bad condition. Later on when you get your skills up and have good condition weaponry you're able to pick off targets from a longer distance with free aim. A second note is that nearly all weapons have a spread, so even with maxed small arms/energy weapons some weapons will still seem inaccurate. It's a nice touch of realism. Laser weapons, Lincoln's Reapter don't have spread, so you hit exactly where you're aiming with maxed skill/weapon condition. Also some weapons appear to be zeroed for a specific range, but you can get the hang of that pretty quickly.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

masmullin (1479239) | more than 4 years ago | (#28641981)

Whats wrong is that, as an FPS it sucks compared to the previous game I played (COD5).

Im sure that if the game I played previous to Fallout3 was say, Original Doom, or some oldskool FPS it would be perfectly acceptable, but im used to really good FPSs now, and fallout3 just doesn't compare (as an FPS).

P.S. I used VATS too, but I wanted to <b>try</b> and play it like an FPS.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

karstux (681641) | more than 4 years ago | (#28647061)

I completely agree. I played STALKER prior to Fallout3, and the latter's FPS experience was just very, very lacking in comparison. Little things like iron sight aiming, bullet drop and ricochets add so much immersion, it's sad they weren't there. Also, the whole manual aiming system is somewhat broken, it doesn't really feel "right".

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28724391)

Try Fallout Wanderers Edition, which is a gigantic mod that adds, among other things, sprint and bullet time (both eat AP). Enemies also seem to be better shots, and running up to them generally gets you splattered until you get the better armor (at which time you're supposed to be an unstoppable mofo, at least to measly raiders).

But it's not a FPS, full stop. Amusingly tho there is a mod that adds a mission that is an RTS.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (2, Informative)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 4 years ago | (#28642171)

The problem with fallout 3 is that it was so close to being a FPS, but wasn't. I want to play it like a FPS but its just too inferior. I keep thinking to myself how awesome the game would have been if it was built on an FPS engine like the one used in Call of Duty 5

You really, really need to play S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl.

Really.

A better overall game than Fallout 3, and definitely a better FPS (since F3 wasn't really trying to be one, that's not saying much)

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

masmullin (1479239) | more than 4 years ago | (#28651187)

I dont run windows on my home PCs. I bought a console so I could play games, so Im stuck on console gaming now.

this STALKER game is only PC right?

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (4, Insightful)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 4 years ago | (#28642795)

I keep thinking to myself how awesome the game would have been if it was built on an FPS engine like the one used in Call of Duty 5

So why not just play Call of Duty 5 and leave us Fallout fans our Fallout experience? Seriously, there are any number of "me too" FPS games out there to satisfy the mouse-twitchers and "gaming keyboard" masses; Fallout, on the other hand, is something unique and special in the history of computer gaming. The point of Fallout is to become immersed in the rich game world of post-apocalyptic alternate earth and enjoy the ironic gallows humor of the optimistic retro-future (epitomized in the sci-fi serials of the 1950s), in ruins by the time of the Fallout games, contrasted with the bitter realities of survival in a bombed out wasteland. If the game were to depend too heavily on FPS type skills then it would detract from the immersive RPG experience whereby the player "becomes" the character in the game world. Fallout is an RPG; if that is not what you are looking for then play something else and leave us RPG gamers our own niche. I almost wish that Fallout 3 had NOT been released on console so that the true Fallout fans would be spared the indignity of hearing the complaints of the unwashed console FPS masses who play War Game 200X and Madden Football 200X and then complain when they don't "get" Fallout and ask why it couldn't be more like any of the other forgettable console games which come and go each year.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 4 years ago | (#28644439)

I almost wish that Fallout 3 had NOT been released on console so that the true Fallout fans would be spared the indignity of hearing the complaints of the unwashed console FPS masses who play War Game 200X and Madden Football 200X and then complain when they don't "get" Fallout and ask why it couldn't be more like any of the other forgettable console games which come and go each year.

I play games on consoles, I've never owned a Madden game, never owned a WCW/WWE game, don't play NBA, don't play ESPNfoo. Please don't stereotype us all, by the actions of a few idiots.

I bought Fallout 3 knowing it would be an RPG and not an actual traditional FPS. I very much enjoy playing it on my PS3. it's actually a bit more "fun" for me than Oblivion.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

masmullin (1479239) | more than 4 years ago | (#28645735)

we got off track here to clear things up:
I am an RPG fan way more than an FPS fan, however I do play games other than F3. if you go an play COD5 and compare it against F3 you'll notice 2 things

1) controls are FAR superior in COD5
2) graphics are much better in COD5

Now stop being a snob and realize that if Bethesda used a different engine they would have had the perfect game, rather than something which is close, but agonizingly not there.

When I play a game like COD5 (or Halo 1 for that matter) the ability to control the character is VERY important towards the level of immersion that I feel.

Its the simple things like analog movement,
eg. in F3 you're either running or your walking, in most FPS the amount you press on the stick controls how much movement you do. You also move at the same speed whether your strafing or walking backwards/forwards.

There are lots of little things about controls of FPSs that are simply better than F3. If you would stop thinking that you were so superior to us "unwashed gamers" you might understand that there is simply no reason for the clunkiness that exists in F3.

Like I said, there are three things missing from F3 that would make it a perfect game. Magic, superior graphics, superior controls.

Now as far as games being for PC gamers like yourself; some of us dont run windows on any computers, so Console games are the only big budget games we get to play.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

freyyr890 (1019088) | more than 3 years ago | (#28753345)

Magic, superior graphics, superior controls

No, no, and no. Magic cannot be worked into the Fallout universe without seriously destroying the Fallout legacy. I don't want psi a la system shock, I don't want telekinetic mutation, I don't want Mass Effect remote hacking, I don't want Bioshock bio-mods. I want Fallout. Are those features cool? Yes. But if I want them then I'll pull out my copy of SS2 or ME or Bioshock.

Not every game needs the latest and greatest knock-your-socks-off graphics engine. I find it isn't the graphics engine that defines a game, but the art direction. Bethesda spent more time making sure the beautiful retro 50s ambiance was present in the game. It works great.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about for the controls. They're the same as Oblivion was, and it worked just well there as it does in this game. This is a first person RPG. It's unfair to compare it to Halo and COD: those games are first person shooters. This game is not! And as for that limited analog motion - PC gamers have been happy with that since Quake popularized the keyboard and mouse method of playing FPSes we're so used to.

This game is not COD5.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

Blimey85 (609949) | more than 4 years ago | (#28647679)

I agree with you on most points but keep in mind that not everyone can afford PC gaming. I own an Xbox 360 and I have FO3 and all 4 expansions. I'll be buying the 5th as soon as it hits. I love the game. One of my all time favorites. Had it only been released on PC I would have never played it as I don't do PC gaming. I don't have the graphics for it, nor the budget to upgrade my PC to keep up with gaming.

Beyond just cost, I find console gaming to be far simpler than pc gaming. When I need an update or an expansion it's a very quick and easy process on my console. I don't have to go to any sites or find anything. I don't need to upgrade any drivers. All I care about is playing the game, not tweaking crap to get it to run right or finding out that I should have bought ATI rather than Nvidia or vice versa.

Plus for other games, like Gears of War 2, the online play is top notch on the 360. As far as I know there isn't anything like Xbox Live for the PC, but since I'm not a PC gamer, there very well might be and I just haven't heard of it. I do kinda wish FO3 had a co-op mode. That would be a cool expansion pack... something that added a co-op mode. You and a buddy exploring the wasteland... if only.

Re:The Problem with Fallout3 (1)

ZosX (517789) | more than 4 years ago | (#28657323)

If you can afford an xbox you can afford a pc that will play fallout 3. last time I priced one I came in at around the $400 mark. Pretty cheap these days if you ask me.

Bethesda = Buggy as Hell! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28639839)

I'm sorry, I randomly fell through the map in Morrowind, Oblivion, and FO3 WAY too many times to think highly of the Gamebryo engines. Not to mention all the broken quests, items, dungeons, and NPCs I encountered while playing. The Gamebryo engines seem highly, highly buggy and I'm not sure if that's a function of the engine design/programming or Bethesda's complete lack of QA testing. Bethesda needs to stop worrying about getting games out quickly and start worrying about all the damn game breaking bugs they ship. It's not right to depend on the MOD COMMUNITY to fix their screw ups.

Re:Bethesda = Buggy as Hell! (2, Informative)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 4 years ago | (#28640603)

I got stuck one place in Oblivion (couldn't jump out from between 2 rocks), but I never fell through the map in that game or in Fallout 3. I haven't really played enough Morrowind to comment on it, but I never really had any problems with the world geometry that I could blame on the engine. I found a couple buggy quests, but not so terribly malformed that they couldn't be completed. I'm sure experiences would differ on both those points, depending on the exact play order and style of a specific gamer.

Re:Bethesda = Buggy as Hell! (1)

PingSpike (947548) | more than 4 years ago | (#28641165)

Oblivion of course had its bugs (its a pretty complex game...not to big of a surprise) but it was really a step up from previous titles by Bethseda. Even after all the patches, Morrowind still would frequently hang up for nearly a minute when changing cells for no apparent reason. Plus, tons of quest bugs (some of which were fixed with unofficial patches). Oblivion has no such problems in my experience, cell transitions are clean and generally fairly quick. This may not seem like a horrible bug but it was pretty mind numbing to me while playing since cell changes were a frequent part of the game.

Morrowind was also a vast improvement over daggerfall, which had amazing scope but did feature awesome bugs.

Re:Bethesda = Buggy as Hell! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28642571)

I fell through the map many, many times in Morrowind, both PC and Xbox. In the Xbox version it seems to happen most often while jumping. I would just be bunny hopping while running across a field (to get my Acrobatics up, of course. :) ) and the next thing I know I was falling through the map. Which necessitated a reload. On the Xbox version, king of slow load times. :p On the PC version I could just be walking down a hill and fall right through the map. Sometimes this made me reappear in another location with broken triggers, other times I just wandered around in under the map. Very, very annoying.

It happened less frequently in Oblivion and only once in FO3 but still that type of thing should be caught and fixed in QA. Oblivion was far worse about broken in game objects and quests. FO3 I have to admit was not that bad but it still had some broken stuff. Broken objects/quests should really be caught and fixed in QA testing. Especially if it's a commonly encountered bug like the Orc head of staff for some count in Oblivion that would just randomly throw himself off a bridge and die. It broke a quest and happened to me and three other people I know who played Oblivion.

And this isn't even mentioning Bethesda's horrible patching policy. The Oblivion patches didn't really seem to do much on my system and broke stuff on my wife's system. This was for vanilla un-modded Oblivion installs. Morrowind's patches also didn't seem to fix much. Maybe this is a symptom of the console dumb down these games acquired during development?

Re:Bethesda = Buggy as Hell! (1)

mqduck (232646) | more than 4 years ago | (#28640857)

one thing has remained a constant: the Gamebryo engine. Love it or hate it

I hate it.

it has been the foundation of what fans of The Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3

Like me!

have come to love.

What?!

Anyway, hopefully the guys at id can take a break from id Tech to do some bugfixing on Bethesda's version of Gamebryo.

Re:Bethesda = Buggy as Hell! (1)

karstux (681641) | more than 4 years ago | (#28647111)

Or better yet... license id tech 5 for the next Elderscrolls game! Seriously, id's graphical fidelity and Bethesda's sandbox-making abilities... what could top this?

What With the id Aquisition... (1)

Xin Jing (1587107) | more than 4 years ago | (#28640267)

I wonder what Bethesda have to say about the new kids on the block. Surely Bethesda will wecome in their new company bunkmates, but in-house tech genious to tech genious, I wonder what kinds of conversations they are looking forward to with Carmack. Or are they taking more of wait and see approach with regards to direction from Zenimax.

Re:What With the id Aquisition... (1)

kv9 (697238) | more than 4 years ago | (#28645563)

but in-house tech genious to tech genious, I wonder what kinds of conversations they are looking forward to with Carmack.

I imagine Carmack would laugh at them for using third party engines while flexing his awesome nerd muscles.

Id Software (1)

Guspaz (556486) | more than 4 years ago | (#28640605)

I find it odd that they bought Id Software for their engine technology only to sing the praises of the Gamebryo engine instead. If the Gamebryo engine is so great, why do they need Id Tech 5?

Re:Id Software (1)

Xin Jing (1587107) | more than 4 years ago | (#28641063)

As far as I understand it, id was purchased by Zenimax, which also owns Bethesda Softworks. Bethesda is a seperate studio as id will be under the Zenimax umbrella. Each studio's respective proprietary technologies will remain their own, for the near future anyway, until Zenimax determines what to do. I'm sure there will be cross-studio sharing off tech, but I'm sure Zenimax isn't interested in merging all 3d tech into a single engine just yet. There's a lot to be said about product branding and a timely return on investment.

Re:Id Software (2, Insightful)

jonwil (467024) | more than 4 years ago | (#28645267)

Gamebryo and Id Tech 5 are different engines for different purposes. Id Tech 5 is good for some games that Gamebryo would not be suitable for and vice versa.

Spoilers much? Assholes. (1, Flamebait)

PegLegPete (551042) | more than 4 years ago | (#28641801)

Yo fuck the slashdot writer for mentioning alien spacecraft. Or fuck bethesda. Either way I had no idea there was ANY alien shit going on until now. Thanks. NOT EVERYONE HAS BEATEN THE GAME YET.

Re:Spoilers much? Assholes. (1)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 4 years ago | (#28641857)

WTF? I haven't either, but haven't started the last quest (wanted to do other quests). But I've uncovered a good number of references to aliens already.

Re:Spoilers much? Assholes. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28641955)

Actually, it is quite easy to beat the game without seeing the alien spaceship. Or a lot of other stuff.

Re:Spoilers much? Assholes. (1)

oneirophrenos (1500619) | more than 4 years ago | (#28642081)

The crashed alien ship is a "hidden" encounter, you won't see it on your map, even after discovery. The only way you would find it is by a very unlikely accident or by knowing where to look for it. Your game experience has not been spoiled.

Re:Spoilers much? Assholes. (-1, Flamebait)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 4 years ago | (#28643231)

How the heck was parent modded insightful? Fallout 3 is not so much a game to "beat" as it is a world to be experienced. If you are trying to "win the game" then you are missing the point of RPGs in general and Fallout3 in particular. Wouldn't you be happier with Madden 2009 or one of the inumerable other fixed-path console games? Besides, the alien crash site is not an essential part of the main storyline and in the base game it is nothing more than a map location which adds flavor to the game world and provides the "alien blaster" of previous Fallout fame (although less useful this time around due to extremely limited ammunition, durability, and repair options making it more of a curiosity than a useful general purpose weapon).

Re:Spoilers much? Assholes. (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 4 years ago | (#28644539)

Hey, stop stereotyping console players there's some of us that have no desire to ever play Madden. For all you know the OP could be playing the PC version of FO3.

Personally even though I'm supposed to be going to Little Lamplight to find a way into the vault, I'm just wandering around finding new locations and exploring. Heck, I haven't even been to Kvatch in Oblivion and I"ve put over a hundred hours into that.

Re:Spoilers much? Assholes. (1)

PegLegPete (551042) | more than 4 years ago | (#28692241)

First, yes, my post was not insightful, more like angry. But mods love me, so deal with it CodeBusta. Back on topic: How am I supposed to know that the aliens are not a major part of the main storyline? After hearing there are aliens in the game, I considered that maybe the humans didn't nuke each other but instead had to fight off an alien invasion? That is pivotal if you ask me. I don't know how aliens can't NOT be pivotal. A society isolated vs a society in contact with aliens is a large difference. Obviously its not a new idea for games as a whole, but within a setting so rich with story as Fallout, knowing there are aliens around is kinda a big deal in my book. I'll choose to ignore your off-beat "win the game" and Madden 2009 comments cuz they are too irrelevant. I'm talking about story and spoiling stories of a really good game. If you want to turn this into a console/hardcore discussion, you can move along. (For the record, I prefer PC games and have for the last 20 years)

Re:Spoilers much? Assholes. (1)

anomnomnomymous (1321267) | more than 4 years ago | (#28643303)

WTF?! The princess is in another castle?!

Why did people have to spoil that? I didn't freaking get to stage 1-4 yet!

Fallout 3 - Millenium Engine? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28642121)

Just like Windows ME, it loads super fast but crashes often. That's my experience so far. Never played a game so crash prone and so far nobody can give me answers as to why (and yes, my PC does run Crysis.)

It's frustrating because in between crashes, I'm having a ton of fun.

Posting AC because I'm admitting to have experienced Win ME. :(

Re:Fallout 3 - Millenium Engine? (1)

DocSavage64109 (799754) | more than 4 years ago | (#28642619)

Odd. I've been playing it the last 5 days on Win XP with out a single crash. The only problem I have is after alt-tabbing out, I'm sometimes unable to the game back.

Re:Fallout 3 - Millenium Engine? (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 4 years ago | (#28657581)

If possible, run the game in windowed mode, but at your normal desktop resolution. This fixes that same issue for other games, so it may work for Fallout 3.

The games rock, but the character models are poor (3, Insightful)

TheJodster (212554) | more than 4 years ago | (#28643177)

I'm not sure if the engine referenced is responsible for rendering graphics. I am a HUGE Bethesda fanboy... I'll admit it. I LOVE Oblivion and all of it's DLC as well as Morrowind and Fallout 3. However, those plastic looking expressionless faces are sub par for such fantastic games. I realize that this is a difficult thing to accomplish with current technology and that most games suffer from this to some extent. The other thing that bugs me about the engine is that the women are very manly looking. If I were Bethesda, my big focus for my next engine iteration would be on having the character models show at least a little bit of emotion and make the women look like women.

The game mechanics portions of their engines are wonderful and their talent at creating atmosphere in a game is spot on. That has got to be quite an achievement in games where people play for sixty to over a hundred hours. Their games never feel terribly repetitive to me. I stay engaged pretty much the whole time.

Re:The games rock, but the character models are po (1)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 4 years ago | (#28659175)

I'm not sure if the engine referenced is responsible for rendering graphics. I am a HUGE Bethesda fanboy... I'll admit it. I LOVE Oblivion and all of it's DLC as well as Morrowind and Fallout 3. However, those plastic looking expressionless faces are sub par for such fantastic games. I realize that this is a difficult thing to accomplish with current technology and that most games suffer from this to some extent. The other thing that bugs me about the engine is that the women are very manly looking. If I were Bethesda, my big focus for my next engine iteration would be on having the character models show at least a little bit of emotion and make the women look like women.

It's not a limitation of the engine, just the meshes and textures used with it. There are plug-ins for Oblivion to make pretty characters. The results are extraordinary. There's also nudie plugins so you can have your character running around naked and bursting with nipply health.

If anything, Bethesda's next big game should find it even easier to make pretty characters, assuming they put forth the effort.

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