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Five Years of PC Storage Performance Compared

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the professor-it-seems-to-be-getting-cheaper dept.

Data Storage 90

theraindog writes "PC storage has come a long way in the last few years. Perpendicular recording tech has fueled climbing capacities, 10k-RPM spindle speeds have migrated from SCSI to Serial ATA, Native Command Queuing has made mechanical drives smarter, and a burgeoning SSD market looks set to fundamentally change the industry. The Tech Report has taken a look back at the last four and a half years of PC storage solutions, probing the capacity and performance of a whopping 70 different notebook and desktop hard drives, SSDs, and exotic RAM disks. There's a lot of test data to digest, but the overall trends are easy to spot, potentially foretelling the future of PC storage."

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A similar history will play out for SSDs (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28663915)

The current models don't spin very quickly, but in the future people will pay a premium for the increased throughput in 5000, 7500, and 10K RPM models.

Re:A similar history will play out for SSDs (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664167)

The current models don't spin very quickly...

That's very observant of you to notice that SSDs don't spin very quickly. But I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that they'll spin faster in the future.

Re:A similar history will play out for SSDs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28665189)

There really needs to be a -1 Whoosh mod

Re:A similar history will play out for SSDs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28665361)

Nah. As a Anonymous Coward you'll get modded zero anyway.

Re:A similar history will play out for SSDs (1)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 5 years ago | (#28665533)

Actually, I think we also need a +1 whoosh mod, which that definitely deserved.

Re:A similar history will play out for SSDs (1)

aynoknman (1071612) | more than 5 years ago | (#28668503)

The current models don't spin very quickly...

That's very observant of you to notice that SSDs don't spin very quickly. But I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that they'll spin faster in the future.

Seems to me that at least in the comparison of the technologies that there's been a lot of spin. I don't expect that this will decrease significantly in the future.

It is said... (4, Insightful)

jo42 (227475) | more than 5 years ago | (#28663957)

It is said that pr0n drives certain sectors of technology. Unfortunately, I have yet to find a single drive to store my whole collection... :-(

Re:It is said... (2, Interesting)

kongit (758125) | more than 5 years ago | (#28663979)

I have found www.google.com to be the best collection of porn imaginable. I have offered my porn up to the gods of cloud computing.

Re:It is said... (3, Funny)

hansraj (458504) | more than 5 years ago | (#28663999)

Unfortunately, I have yet to find a single drive to store my whole collection... :-(

Sex drive should be enough of a drive to store all your collection, or at least to try to.

Re:It is said... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664403)

Is this modded "funny" because it's clearly a failed attempt at wordplay by someone for whom English is obviously not a first language, or because it's being modded by people for whom English is not a first language?

Re:It is said... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664021)

Are you implying that your disk isn't hard enough?

Re:It is said... (5, Funny)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664059)

Well it used to be floppy so we're improving

Re:It is said... (5, Funny)

pitchpipe (708843) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664317)

Now it's in a solid state!

Re:It is said... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664871)

And soon it'll all explode ^^

Or wait. That's a -bad- thing, yea?

Re:It is said... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28667507)

You killed it man.

It was funny until you added to it.

Re:It is said... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664217)

Why do you collect it? There is a near INFINTE supply on the web, easily found for free. If you are storing over 1.5 TB or pr0n for personal consumption....wow.

Re:It is said... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664609)

Maybe just can't be bothered to delete it.

Re:It is said... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664755)

Or maybe he can't delete it because the bytes are all stuck together.

Re:It is said... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664799)

Is it indexed by category? I'm looking for a series I lost after a drive crash, maybe I could offer you a colo!

Re:It is said... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28666081)

It is said that pr0n drives certain sectors of technology. Unfortunately, I have yet to find a single drive to store my whole collection... :-(

Stop filming yourself having a wank then!

Overall Trends (5, Funny)

basementman (1475159) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664007)

The overall trend on one page instead of 12 is that storage is getting cheaper, bigger and faster. Oh boy...

Re:Overall Trends (0, Offtopic)

beckett (27524) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664123)

it's just

Re:Overall Trends (0, Offtopic)

beckett (27524) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664135)

easier to

Re:Overall Trends (-1, Offtopic)

beckett (27524) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664139)

read

Re:Overall Trends (1, Offtopic)

beckett (27524) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664147)

spread out over multiple pages.

sorry i got lazy.

Re:Overall Trends (0, Offtopic)

4phun (822581) | more than 5 years ago | (#28665409)

Burma Shave...

Re:Overall Trends (5, Informative)

JustinOpinion (1246824) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664465)

on one page instead of 12

The Firefox Add-on AutoPager [mozilla.org] is your friend: automatically loads the next page inline as you scroll downwards. Turns multi-page sites into the single page they are supposed to be. Works great with many popular pages, including search results... and idiotic news sites.

Re:Overall Trends (5, Insightful)

Vegeta99 (219501) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664641)

That, sir, if the Comment of the Week right there.

Re:Overall Trends (1)

electrosoccertux (874415) | more than 5 years ago | (#28669821)

I don't know, man. It's like finishing my plate of food-- mom always made me finish it before I could have dessert. The OCD in me must finish whatever page I'm on. Having the page infinitely expand is not conducive to productivity...

Re:Overall Trends (1)

CmdrPorno (115048) | more than 5 years ago | (#28665253)

Where's the Safari version?

Re:Overall Trends (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28665425)

Don't know, but I have noticed that addons for Safari really mean "Mac OS Safari add-ons" and us in the PC world are lost. It's a reverse Internet Explorer situation. I for one would welcome an Auto-load addon to just restore my last session. It's nice that I found out Safari keeps the History and all, but automation and addons appears to be a forgotten real on the PC side.

Re:Overall Trends (2, Informative)

Ma8thew (861741) | more than 5 years ago | (#28666385)

That's because Safari 'addons' are actually input manager hacks, which are theoretically designed to provide access for assistive devices on Mac OS X, but generally aren't. They work by dynamically injecting code into the executable. This means they can seriously break stuff if the application is updated, and can cause instability. I only use a single input manager hack for Safari, which is AdBlock. It's fairly simple, and hasn't broken anything yet.

Re:Overall Trends (1)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 5 years ago | (#28665545)

I'm fairly fond of Link Widgets myself. It allows (ALT+ Page Up / Down) to cycle to the previous / next page. I mostly use it for sites where I appreciate the pagination (webcomics primarily.)

Sites with lots of superfluous pages like this one I just skim the first and last pages.

Re:Overall Trends (1)

bestalexguy (959961) | more than 5 years ago | (#28666301)

Too bad AutoPager on Google search screws up the Comment/Promote/Remove feature.

12 pages? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664097)

12 pages? Yeah, I want to read that. 12 pages of ads.

Re:12 pages? (1)

Pentium100 (1240090) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664223)

ads? what ads?

Re:12 pages? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28665487)

ads? what ads?

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694

Re:12 pages? (1)

Djehuty3 (1371395) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664263)

Ad...vert?

What is this..Ad-Vert of which you speak?

Technology moves so fast... (2, Insightful)

bmecoli (963615) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664107)

It's amazing what feats we have accomplished over the past five years. I really makes you wonder what storage technology we will have 50 years from now. I honestly can't wait to give my "in my day" speech to all the youngins when I'm 76.

"In my day, all our data was mostly stored on spinning magnetic disks... or platters as we used to call them..."

Re:Technology moves so fast... (4, Interesting)

nethenson (1093205) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664479)

One thing I find impresive about the evolution of storage: 20TB was the total hard drive space manufactured in 1995, just 14 years ago. And today some sites are offering 1TB storage for free, and it isn't hard to imagine they have much more than 100.000 users.

Not only you get more and more gigabytes per hard drive every year, the whole world also gets a massive quantity of new storage space.

And yet, we keep on getting 'No space left on device' errors.

Re:Technology moves so fast... (1)

jeffb (2.718) (1189693) | more than 5 years ago | (#28667189)

One thing I find impresive about the evolution of storage: 20TB was the total hard drive space manufactured in 1995, just 14 years ago.

I believe you meant 20 petabytes. You could already get gigabyte drives back then, and it's hard to imagine that fewer than 20,000 of them were manufactured during the course of the year.

But, yes, exponential growth is impressive.

why so many pages? (2, Informative)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664133)

3 benchmarks for the same thing? oh right this is techcrunch they need to fill every page with as many stupid ads as possible, and draw out their pointless review to the point you gag.

summary - intel x25 is super fast, super expensive. not much has changed with spinning platters.

Re:why so many pages? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664627)

not much has changed with spinning platters.

Actually, I was surprised by the results for magnetic storage which showed a 2-3x performance gain over the older generations.
Pretty amazing for a technology that was supposedly as "good as it's going to get".
Seems perpendicular recording helped quite a bit allowing drives to get much bigger and increase in performance, mag drives may not be at the end of their rope yet.

Re:why so many pages? (1)

volsung (378) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664847)

This makes sense, of course. If disk rotation speeds stay fixed, and areal densities increase, then the number of bits per second passing under the head has to go up. As long as hard drive manufacturers can keep increasing storage capacity, they will get speed increases at the same time. (If you need to use longer error-correcting codes on the platter to achieve these densities, that can fight against these gains.)

Re:why so many pages? (4, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664657)

summary - intel x25 is super fast, super expensive. not much has changed with spinning platters.

Hmm not the trends I've noticed. From what I've paid attention to:
1) Spinning platters hasn't changed that much, but they've gone down substantially in price. The sweet spot on capacity/cost including SATA connections and everything has gone up considerably and is now at 1.5TB/disk, which are only minimally more expensive than 1.0TB while the 2.0TB disks are top of the line and very expensive.

2) SSD prices were in freefall up until around march. Since then there's been 4 months of increased prices, very abnormal for computer equipment. Not sure if this means the prices will go much slower from here, if so that's bad because they're still at enthusiast pricing.

Basicly, it looks to me like we're header for SSDs as primary drives and 1.5TB+ disks for vast disk arrays that SSDs won't touch for a long while, they still have a 25:1 cost disadvantage compared to the cheapest bulk storage. Now I still got plenty old disks, but if I replaced all 12 in my Antec 1200 with the cheapest 1.5TB disk you can now deliver 18TB for less than 2000$ for the whole system, it'd be close to 100$/TB but slightly over. That's just freakishly huge compared to five years ago, so I still say things are moving along nicely.

Also I didn't get the Intel SSD, but I did get the 120GB Vertex and it flies. I can start a torrent doing 2MB/s random writes and I barely notice I'm doing it. The world is moving forward a lot, but honesly with faster Internet I don't feel quite the same need to store everything locally anyway. Still, it's nice to have 32GB on the USB stick in my pocket for when I need something. I never thought I'd say this because I've been rather insatisfiable when it comes to computers, but things are starting to bottom out. Even a pack rat like me is starting to wonder what I need all this space for, it's moving past nice-to-have into cool-but-why territory.

Re:why so many pages? (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664845)

nothing has really changed with platters though - space has been going up, speed hasn't really improved leaps and bounds and prices are always dropping. this has been consistent for the last 10 years.

and while SSD's have come down in price, cost per gig is still huge - it's a good few years before more then a handful of consumers are using them.

Re:why so many pages? (3, Insightful)

ZosX (517789) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664855)

I have a 750gb that I filled with compressed video. My huge mp3 collection would be four times as large if I upgraded it to flac. A few terrabytes is not all that much and I could probably fill a 5TB array about as fast as 12mb/s would get me. With video now, especially HD video, drives are going to get filled up faster than ever. Also digital photography is pushing beyond film now with 50 megapixel sensors. They are quite expensive, but imagine what it will be like in another 5 years or so. Even my 10-meg camera stores 12 megabyte raws. Its not hard to fill up a 4gig card at around 300 images.

What can I say? Hoarding is also addicting. Who knows. Maybe one day society will collapse and these huge caches of media will be some of our only copies of our cultural history. I think it is important for music to be preserved, and with many things going out of print and obscure record companies dissolving, it is getting rather hard to find underground stuff from even the 90s.

Re:why so many pages? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28673419)

If you store your pictures as raw, why not store your songs as WAV as well?
This will allow you to run out of space much faster!

Re:why so many pages? (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 5 years ago | (#28665089)

And for performance we can forget about storage that uses legacy drive interfaces at all. The performance kings these days are PCIe attach SSDs and they make the fastest of these SSDs look like tape drives in comparison.

Re:why so many pages? (1)

ToasterMonkey (467067) | more than 5 years ago | (#28665853)

Modern tape drives actually have tremendous throughput, and the $/GB crown. Keep in mind that the rated speed/capacity is the raw data to tape AFTER inline hardware compression, meaning you're usually moving twice as much or more data between the host and drive. Now, looking at seek times, they're polar opposites of SSD, but that's not the universal definition of performance :)

Re:why so many pages? (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 5 years ago | (#28668687)

If you're using hard drives for tape-like tasks, for example backup, you get the same advantages of bandwidth multiplication and storage capacity as tape. Also, the random-access nature of hard drives offers the facility to do differential backups that can function as live snapshots. Current virtual tape libraries emulate all of the advantages of tape except one: archive longevity. Tape is still the standout winner there. Hardware compression is overrated in the modern era, as the task is just not complex and modern processors already have hardware assist for typical compression and encryption operations at the machine language level, so these tasks are no sweat for your ipod, let alone server class equipment. This is even before we consider data deduplication.

A single 2TB SATA drive with typical 4x compression can store 8TB of data, writing at 320MB/s and reading at 640MB/s. If someone would bother to make a 10-drive cartridge for backup we could bump that figure to 64TB capacity with raid-6 dual redundancy and triple the bandwidth. I don't know, but there may be NAS devices that offer this with a 10Gbps Ethernet interface in the market now. To fully exploit the bandwidth of such a device you would need external PCIe, hot-pluggable, which is indeed part of the PCIe 2.0 standard but not yet implemented that I know of. For your $/GB metric you're considering only the cost of media, not the horrendous cost of proprietary equipment and software to implement a tape solution. SATA drives are bog-standard equipment and no special software is needed, and they don't tie you to a particular vendor.

I would say that the days of tape are done for everything except the legal requirement for long-duration archival storage or to satisfy written policies that take many years to turn. In technology though with time all things change.

The current problem with enterprise backup is that the communications monopolies have bound up all that dark fiber to drive up the costs. Otherwise we could all just use continuous data replication to multiple geographically diverse sites for primary storage, with each site having its own offline storage for truly redundant unkillable data storage. It doesn't even have to cost a lot. Those 2TB drives are $250, and servers start at around $700 now.

Re:why so many pages? (2, Insightful)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 5 years ago | (#28666829)

Still, it's nice to have 32GB on the USB stick in my pocket for when I need something. I never thought I'd say this because I've been rather insatisfiable when it comes to computers, but things are starting to bottom out. Even a pack rat like me is starting to wonder what I need all this space for, it's moving past nice-to-have into cool-but-why territory.

Something will come up to eat the space.

CD-ROM's could store more text than you could ever need. Then came multimedia content. CD's suddenly felt cramped.

Time was when computer music meant mod files. Who had the space to devote to encoding real live music? Now we have mp3 players in our pockets.

We'll come up with more and more stuff to eat up the space. Video is the biggest driver right now but even the most hardcore downloader will need some time to fill up a 1.5tb drive. Hardcore geeks who keep the last ten iso's of every software distribution out there are having trouble filling up that space. But we'll come up with something else. I don't do video editing but by all accounts you eat up hard drive space like candy.

The next revolution we desperately need is reliable archival storage. Tapes tend to suck and backing up to a second external drive just makes me think of the RAID admonishment -- "RAID is not backup." It feels safer to have something like a DVD with no electronic parts to go bad, something you can stick in a new drive whenever you want. Except wait a minute, how good are the discs? When will the dye start to fade, the backing peel off? No, DVD's are worrisome when talking about really important data.

So the current best advice out there is to backup your data multiple times with different technology so it would take a truly awful combination of failures to fuck 'em all. But there needs to be a better way than this.

Re:why so many pages? (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#28667085)

But we'll come up with something else. I don't do video editing but by all accounts you eat up hard drive space like candy.

I do have "the ultimate" in hard disk space eating, a HD video camera. But even that... there's limits to how many hours of boring home video anyone really wants to watch and there's not that many GB/hour of film. I'm sure that for Japanese photo freaks that seem far more busy photographing where they've been than being where they're at will have problems, but not me.

The next revolution we desperately need is reliable archival storage. Tapes tend to suck and backing up to a second external drive just makes me think of the RAID admonishment -- "RAID is not backup." (...) No, DVD's are worrisome when talking about really important data.

RAID is not backup because any error will immidiately propagate to all the disks. Multiple independent copies like say an external drive is backup, and that's what I use. For the important stuff I keep triple copies - two online and one offline. A few things remotely sync'ed to an offsite location too.

backups? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28666913)

Now I still got plenty old disks, but if I replaced all 12 in my Antec 1200 with the cheapest 1.5TB disk you can now deliver 18TB for less than 2000$ for the whole system, it'd be close to 100$/TB but slightly over. That's just freakishly huge compared to five years ago, so I still say things are moving along nicely.

Is this data important to you? If so, how would you back it up?

I have a 1.5 TB drive, but it's in an external enclosure. I have a "normal" 500 GB drive inside machine and backup to the 1.5 TB (incrementals, with history).

Great Technology? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664209)

If this technology is sooo great then why do disk drives die suddenly after 3 years of use?

Re:Great Technology? (1, Offtopic)

Dest (207166) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664269)

I've never had one die that quickly on me.

Re:Great Technology? (1)

Vectronic (1221470) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664453)

I know I'm probably rare, but I have yet to have one die that I actually purchased, I have thrown out 2 that likely would have, but not because they were failing, simply because by 2002 I had no use for a 600MB and 1GB drive, I've got a 1.6GB Western Digital from 1996, that still runs fine, although I only use it rarely as a sort of exaggerated floppy between PC's with no NIC. One 60GB (Maxtor, 2001), and two 80 GB's (Maxtor, 2002) still running fine in their respective boxes (an HP, and a Compaq), and two 120GB (Seagate) from 2003 still running fine on my primary computer, along with a 320GB (Seagate, SATA) in 2007, and another in 2008.

However, I have had 3 die that I got from adopting other peoples PC's, one being some no-name 2GB, a 40GB Quantum, and a Fujitsu/Samsung or something 30GB laptop drive. So maybe just sticking with the Seagate/Maxtor lineage has served me well.

Re:Great Technology? (1)

ZosX (517789) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664883)

You are pretty lucky. I've had quite a few drives fail over time, some containing very irreplaceable data, but such is life. I just recently lost the logic board an an 80gig drive. It contained 6 months worth of work on it that I was meaning to back up again, but never got around to. I think I can fix it, but maybe I can't, so it may just come as a lesson learned. Anymore if a drive lasts beyond a few months it might be ok for some time, but you should probably worry about it after a year or so. However, you still really need some sort of backup plan as even a good power surge will likely fry your drive and its data. I like external usb drives because, while pretty slow, they can be unplugged and thrown in a closet or something and will generally last for some time due to their infrequent use. Drives can sometimes survive fires as well, that is unless your house becomes a pile of smoldering toothpicks. Off site is always the way to go, but not everyone has that luxury. A good idea might be to leave a usb drive at mom's with your most important data or some sort of remote storage.

Re:Great Technology? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28665971)

. It contained 6 months worth of work on it that I was meaning to back up again, but never got around to.

This is why backups need to be automatic, frequent and thorough. I know, everyone has excuses, me too. Still, it can't be repeated enough. Sort of like "always wear seat belts, and condoms..." :\

Re:Great Technology? (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 5 years ago | (#28667847)

re:

"A good idea might be to leave a usb drive at mom's with your most important data or some sort of remote storage."

For many slashdotters, that is not off-site storage. ;)

Re:Great Technology? (2, Insightful)

bemymonkey (1244086) | more than 5 years ago | (#28666067)

That's weird, the only two drives I've ever had die on me were a Seagate (which is actually quite useful as a paperweight) and a Maxtor. Guess i got the duds that were meant for you...

Now Western Digital and Samsung on the other hand... the 80 gigger WDs I bought some time around 2002 (or was it 2003?) have been abused so badly (swapped in and out of cheap external cases, thrown into checked airline baggage without so much as anti-static wrap, dropped by idiot friends...) are still going strong as 2nd-and-3rd-in-line backups for the really important stuff (not pr0n :P).

I'm guessing there's enough horror stories about WD and Samsung out there too, though ;)

Re:Great Technology? (1)

Tenebrousedge (1226584) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664499)

If you're doing it right, it shouldn't be a big deal if the disk dies. If you have an internet connection, it should be trivial to ensure that you have your data backed up in multiple places that are widely distributed geographically. I've had drives die, disasters take out all of my hardware. I've never lost data.

Re:Great Technology? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664593)

If you have an internet connection, it should be trivial to ensure that you have your data backed up in multiple places that are widely distributed geographically.

common problem with the world is that everybody assumes everybody else has the same needs as yourself. yes, internet backup might be trivial for your couple of dozen word files (although privacy is not included in the discussion here), but i have currently about 8TB of data spread over at least 15 drives here at my place.

please explain me again how it is trivial to have that backed up at multiple locations?

Re:Great Technology? (3, Informative)

Zerth (26112) | more than 5 years ago | (#28665163)

1) Rar it up
2) rename it to "world's best porn collection"
3) Bittorrent

I suspect you may be able to skip step two

Re:Great Technology? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28666411)

how does this get modded informative? funny maybe (but just maybe), but it's the baddest idea i've heard in a while for data backups.

a) i have a very fast internet connection for where i live, but my upload is still only 1000kbit/sec, which means even if somebody was interested in the stuff it would take nearly 2 years of constant uploading (just pray nothing crashes in the meantime, right?)

b) i dont want the whole world to have access to my data (no, the mentioned 8TB is not porn, why would i want to back this up in the first place?)

c) even if i were stupid enough to do it and after 2 years i had some peers seeding the torrent once i'll need the backup most of them would probably have deleted the files realizing that it's not porn, so good bye data.

Re:Great Technology? (2, Informative)

JayAEU (33022) | more than 5 years ago | (#28665421)

Get an account on rsync.net and have all of your 15 machines rsync their data there. Might take long the first time, but from there on it will just fly. You could even use a trivial cronjob to do it for you...

Best of all, rsync.net will let you access your data through WebDAVs, so it's like you can take your data with you anywhere you like, as long as you can get online somehow.

Re:Great Technology? (1)

itsme1234 (199680) | more than 5 years ago | (#28666053)

Get an account on rsync.net and have all of your 15 machines rsync their data there. Might take long the first time, but from there on it will just fly. You could even use a trivial cronjob to do it for you...

You must be joking! He has 8TB ! It would cost him $3840 PER MONTH to back up with rsync.net (yes, at the bulk discount rate). I'm sure you can fit a whole system with 8GB space in under $1000 if you go for the cheapest $/GB drives (probably 1.5 TB). Also you would fit most likely 4x2TB drives (only the drives) in $1000. With these numbers is very hard to see how you can do it yourself and NOT have huge savings compared to $3840 per month. Let's say each month you give one system (which is up-to-date) to a friend to keep it on his cable/DSL line. With $3840-$1000=$2840 available you are still ahead even if you use some monkey to install and configure everything at some ridiculous $250/hour (or pay yourself that amount). You would be still ahead if you would pay your friend a hefty one-time $500-$1000 for the privilege of keeping your system! And after you decide you have enough redundancy or you run out of friends everything is free! Or you can fedex every month a copy (=4-6 hdds) to somebody (encrypted if you like). It's just too easy...

Re:Great Technology? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28666905)

I'm pretty sure that with 8TB you can have better prices than the ones listed at their site.

Thorough article backed up with a lot of data (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664363)

Looks like slashdot is on its high horse, saying "of course SSDs are faster, duh, what a waste of time!".

And yet if somebody had written that in a blog, everybody would merrily trolling about how "anecdotal evidence is irrelevant, BTW my HDD is teh fastest".
I don't understand it. Somebody goes to the trouble of comparing a shit-load of drives in a variety of tests, and apparently the results are boring/irrelevant.

Slashdotters are always bitching about lack of empirical evidence for claims, yet when an article come along with abundant information to back up its conclusions, it dosn't get any credit.

Re:Thorough article backed up with a lot of data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664439)

Yeah, when people whale on good articles as well as bad ones, it's no wonder that the editors shrug their shoulders and just post anything controversial, regardless of quality.

On the GIGABYTE IRAM, compared to CENATEK (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664527)

http://www.thenewtech.com/forums/storage-removable-media/interesting-comparison-i-did-2-diff-true-ssds-7819/ [thenewtech.com]

Oddly & IRONICALLY enough, to satisfy those here that "bitch about empirical evidence" & "anecdotal evidence" (trolls use this bullshit - a test done IS A TEST DONE, period)

Well - I did my OWN test in comparing 2 Solid-State drives (what I call "TRUE SSD's", because they're NOT based on FLASH RAM with its slower write cycles & limited lifespan) & had some interesting results, compared to a WD Raptor 74gb, used as my "SCIENTIFIC METHOD CONTROL ITEM"

(Though I Have the Raptor X + Velociraptor here also, but, I figure most folks do not own those or shell out the ca$h for them, so I used what most folks might want or be able to afford in my test (yesterday in fact)).

Drives used & results (in case you cannot see that post or its images without being a member) on HDTach's "LONG TEST":

GIGABYTE IRAM = 138.5 mb/sec + 3-4% CPU usage (this was the RANGE I saw in 3 test runs on CPU usage) & 0.1 ms access/seek

CENATEK ROCKETDRIVE = 124.5 mb/sec + 2-3% CPU usage (this was the RANGE I saw in 3 test runs on CPU usage) & 0.0 ms access/seek

Western Digital "RAPTOR" 74gb unit, 8mb cache 10,000 rpm diskdrive = 101.4 mb/sec + 2% CPU usage (this was the RANGE I saw in 3 test runs on CPU usage) & 8.8 ms access/seek

APK

P.S.=> The results make sense, especially comparing the tech involved with my "TRUE SSD's" (not flash ram based), because the CENATEK uses PCI 2.2 bus (133mb/sec theoretical max transferral rates) & PC-133 SDRAM... the GIGABYTE IRAM uses SATA 1 bus (150mb/sec theoretical transferral rates) + DDR-400 Kingston RAM (what I bought for it) & minus the bus mgt. overheads? The results matched the theoretical rates, perfectly, on throughput, but also on access/seek... apk

Trolls modding me down, for posting facts? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28666925)

See my subject-line above, & realize that the data in the review I did over @ The New Tech forums of the 2 "TRUE SSD's" I own (not FLASH ram based short-lived & low write performance units) almost nearly PERFECTLY MIRRORS that found on the HDTach tests done by THE TECH REPORT also...

(Which merely validates the analysis via benchmarks that THE TECH REPORT has done)

I was "modded down" for that?

OH YES - THE GP PARENT POSTER WAS RIGHT HERE -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1299731&cid=28664363 [slashdot.org] &, right as rain...

(By the by? Your message of "Slashdot only allows anonymous users to post 10 times per day (more or less, depending on moderation). A user from your IP has already shared his or her thoughts with us that many times. Take a breather, and come back and see us in 24 hours or so. If you think this is unfair, please email posting@slashdot.org with your MD5'd IPID, which is a85e960f294466b251e3ddc570c91aa1. Let us know how many comments you think you've posted in the last 24 hours."? As you can plainly see, does NOT work to STOP ME, especially from defending myself vs. your "troll infestation" here...)

APK

P.S.=> This site, though it is one of the better sites online for things technical type news, has a trolls infestation (and the worst kinds of trolls, the "not men" type, who use impersonating others, as I have been in this exchange & others on this forums, or they "down mod" you, even when you use valid tests + valid data, without justifying why via technical means using valid data, also) - too bad: Otherwise, this is a great site... apk

Re:Thorough article backed up with a lot of data (3, Informative)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664715)

"Slashdotters are always bitching about lack of empirical evidence for claims, yet when an article come along with abundant information to back up its conclusions, it dosn't get any credit."

The truth is the way the article displays the information is shit, they could have done a lot better job on information presentation... and anandtech did a big write up on SSD's a while back that should tell anyone all they really need to know until SSD's come down to sane price levels and storage capacities. Everything published here isn't new, and has been known for a long time and has been written about better by anand.

Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531&p=1 [anandtech.com]

I did such reviews FAR BEFORE Anand... apk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664795)

"Everything published here isn't new, and has been known for a long time" - by blahplusplus (757119) on Saturday July 11, @09:23PM (#28664715)

And, I wrote about the effectiveness of Ramdisks in general + their potential for performance gain (software based ones @ FIRST), way, Way, WAY back, & in a respected publication no less, in Windows NT Magazine (now Windows IT Pro) April 1997 "BACK OFFICE PERFORMANCE" issue, page 61...

(& when it was applied practically? It took that same tech & company (EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com) to Ms-Tech Ed 2 yrs. in a row, in its hardest category, SQLServer Performance Enhancement, 2 yrs. in a ROW as a finalist no less)

Later on, circa 2002-2003, for SSD's?

I did a review that was featured on the FRONT PAGE of CENATEK's website with analysis much like the ones I did here (& was ODDLY "modded down for" here -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1299731&cid=28664527 [slashdot.org] )

"and has been written about better by anand." - by blahplusplus (757119) on Saturday July 11, @09:23PM (#28664715)

Then, I will say the same as YOU have, in regards to ANAND La Shimpi: He only "bit off my style", in doing HIS write ups... how's that? Don't LIKE IT?? See the above, write the sources noted even (CENATEK or EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com, to verify my statements).

APK

P.S.=> On the "mod-down"? Hey - That's ok too, as I have my share of troll stalkers here, (sort of an online psycho fanclub, lol)) that "gets off" on trying to put me down any chance they get & I know who they are even... & on said reviews? They were done, on MY part, FAR before Anandtech EVER did them, so as you said? Don't think TOO HIGHLY of anandtech's work... it was proceeded by myself FAR IN ADVANCE OF ANANDTECH POSSIBLY EVEN BEING IN EXISTENCE... apk

Re:I did such reviews FAR BEFORE Anand... apk (2, Informative)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 5 years ago | (#28664857)

I think you didn't notice that the reason Anand's writeup is so useful is that he exposed the major performance degradation present in every SSD as it gets filled with data and begins to need to overwrite old data that was marked as deleted. I may be misunderstanding you, though, since your writing is incoherent.

Also, I've read Anandtech since 1997, so I'm pretty sure you didn't, as you say (with incorrect spelling, which is surprising from a journalist such as yourself) write these reviews "FAR IN ADVANCE OF ANANDTECH POSSIBLY EVEN BEING IN EXISTENCE."

"Everything published here isn't new, and has been known for a long time" - by blahplusplus (757119) on Saturday July 11, @09:23PM (#28664715)

And, I wrote about the effectiveness of Ramdisks in general + their potential for performance gain (software based ones @ FIRST), way, Way, WAY back, & in a respected publication no less, in Windows NT Magazine (now Windows IT Pro) April 1997 "BACK OFFICE PERFORMANCE" issue, page 61...

(& when it was applied practically? It took that same tech & company (EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com) to Ms-Tech Ed 2 yrs. in a row, in its hardest category, SQLServer Performance Enhancement, 2 yrs. in a ROW as a finalist no less)

Later on, circa 2002-2003, for SSD's?

I did a review that was featured on the FRONT PAGE of CENATEK's website with analysis much like the ones I did here (& was ODDLY "modded down for" here -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1299731&cid=28664527 [slashdot.org] )

"and has been written about better by anand." - by blahplusplus (757119) on Saturday July 11, @09:23PM (#28664715)

Then, I will say the same as YOU have, in regards to ANAND La Shimpi: He only "bit off my style", in doing HIS write ups... how's that? Don't LIKE IT?? See the above, write the sources noted even (CENATEK or EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com, to verify my statements).

APK

P.S.=> On the "mod-down"? Hey - That's ok too, as I have my share of troll stalkers here, (sort of an online psycho fanclub, lol)) that "gets off" on trying to put me down any chance they get & I know who they are even... & on said reviews? They were done, on MY part, FAR before Anandtech EVER did them, so as you said? Don't think TOO HIGHLY of anandtech's work... it was proceeded by myself FAR IN ADVANCE OF ANANDTECH POSSIBLY EVEN BEING IN EXISTENCE... apk

No mere writer here, I coded that stuff too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28665001)

"Also, I've read Anandtech since 1997, so I'm pretty sure you didn't, as you say" - by Colonel Korn (1258968) on Saturday July 11, @09:59PM (#28664857)

Did he write about SSD's or software ramdrives back THAT far? I did & did well (MS-Tech Ed finalist 2 yrs. in a row, hardest category, pioneering a MAJOR performance gain usage of ramdrives in general, DB work) + having it appear in a RESPECTED trade rag, Windows NT-Mag (now Windows IT Pro)... has Anand ever built a ramdisk in software OR hardware?

(I have in software & it actually did OK for a freeware too, but was surpassed by better designs from others, which is typical in the software AND hardware world).

Fact is - I've been PERSONALLY involved around this tech, as both a coder, and analyst of them, for a LONG time... & I'd wager BEFORE Anand has been!

(The writing about them that did well @ spots like CENATEK (an actual manufacturer of them for whom I did a review back in 2001-2002 iirc)? Was just a task I was assigned really, as it was for EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com also (when I increased the effectiveness of their Block Device driver SuperCache I/II by 40% in fact))

I got interested, because it is "A LOOK @ THE FUTURE & THE FUTURE IS NOW" (one of my fav sayings & used to be my "signature" in forums long ago & on IRC before that as a parting message)

It was around, even back then + before it... (BUT, only NOW 'coming into its own' though) AND, I've been around the entire concept of Ramdisks/Ramdrives, in both software emulation or hardware, for a LONG time in other words, as well as "championing it" for those that created it (myself in software + others who have AND those who created the first SSD units (there are older ones than the ones I note, Quantum Rushmore MAY ring a bell in fact)

So, for almost 13++ yrs., I've been into it...

Yes, sure - There might have been folks "into it" before myself, but, I am not aware of them showing others how to "GET THE MOST" out of them as I have in industrial environs... still, it may be possible there were folks who have before me, I can concede that much - as their truly is "LITTLE TO NO ORIGINAL THOUGHT" & when a science is ready? It can't HELP but make that "next leap of increase", to be blunt about it - 'great minds DO think alike' when the data & equipment for many appear to take advantage of it!

I am only making a point ANAND was NOT into this that far back, & I strongly doubt he codes around it (or has gone to "MS TECH ED" as my work in this arena has either in PRACTICAL APPLICATION that really truly works (orders of magnitude of possible performance gains in DB work exists, as well as in website work, file serving etc. et al)

----

NOW - See my subject-line, & also realize/be informed: I don't just "write about it", I LIVE IT!

(In even having coded software ramdrives, based off the MS-DDK example (as most all are in Win32 @ least) & shown HOW TO EMPLOY THEM FOR HIGHER PERFORMANCE IN THE MAIN AREA I CODE AROUND (DB WORK))...

I.E.-> Professional programmer/software engineer, since 1994 (& around computers since the mainframe/midrange times before PC's in the 1980's)... done fairly well @ it too, over time, in both living the job AND being recognized for it as well, as a bonus (but, I will tell the truth of this all - ANYONE, who is sufficiently interested & motivated by said interest, could do the same... if they get lucky: I did!

----

"I may be misunderstanding you, though, since your writing is incoherent" - by Colonel Korn (1258968) on Saturday July 11, @09:59PM (#28664857)

LOL, got a PHD to show you are one who has the means to critique others' writing style? No??

(Well, then you get what I wrote above, as return fire... by the by, saying someone cannot write is the oldest "troll trick" in the book - "jedi mind tricks don't work on me")

So, as Bob Dylan put it, in his great tune "The Times they are a Changin'" from "THE WATCHMEN" lately:

"Come writers & critics who prophesize with your pen... AND KEEP YOUR EYES WIDE, the chance won't come again, & don't SPEAK TOO SOON, for the wheel's still 'in spin'... & there's NO TELLIN' WHO THAT IT'S NAMING (cuz the loser now, will be later the WIN!)"

----

Mod my posts down, but, they only contain facts... the mod downs are "effete retaliation" by trolls is all, not facts... I can live with THAT fact, easily. How/Why?

I've actually done, & created no less, what others only WRITE ABOUT... lol!

(LOL, that last comment ought to "stir up the sauce" here, & get the trolls out in force, lol... love that!)

APK

P.S.=>

"I think you didn't notice that the reason Anand's writeup is so useful is that he exposed the major performance degradation present in every SSD as it gets filled with data and begins to need to overwrite old data that was marked as deleted" - by Colonel Korn (1258968) on Saturday July 11, @09:59PM (#28664857)

I wonder - was HE the FIRST (need proof if so, & if so? Very good!) to do so, & note that degradation? That's subject to question, & thus, I MUST ASK... thanks for the info. here, & yes, the proof thereof as to being the first.

(It would appear to me, that Anand has only "STOOD ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS" before he... as have we all, really!)

Plus, hey, IF he did? Well - That's nice, so he's a tech ONLY, right? He uses what guys like ME, write for him, to use... (Big diff. that, vs. those that create this stuff for all to USE)... still - my point's NOT to 'cut down' anand, but to show he is FAR FROM THE FIRST to be "into" SSD's or even software based ramdrives, or to have done well from it... apk

Re:I did such reviews FAR BEFORE Anand... apk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28665607)

Just wanted to say I'm sorry to everyone for my rant. I've started taking my meds again so you won't have to worry about that again...apk

Trolls impersonating me again? LMAO... apk (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28665641)

"Just wanted to say I'm sorry to everyone for my rant. I've started taking my meds again so you won't have to worry about that again...apk" - by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 12, @01:42AM (#28665607)

See my subject-line, & that rather transparent impersonation of myself by the "infamous Mr. Troll", a jealous nobody... LOL!

Mr. Troll? "Your performance is DOWN, lately...", &, that's a rather puny retaliation, alongside the effete mod-downs: As neither "trollish action" stands up very well, vs. facts I laid out, period.

(Not even a "nice try", troll!)

APK

P.S.=> Why don't you apply yourself in this science, or other area you may possibly have strength in, instead, to attempt to improve YOUR condition of life, & quite possibly that of others also, instead of being the puny troll you are?

Then again, I may be expecting too much from "the likes of you", troll (lmao)... & understand this one thing:

Hey - I am just a guy, who got lucky but worked hard in applying what I've learned is all, & had some recognition for it... I.E.-> I can "get the job done", but that is it & my personal estimation of myself alongside this quote:

"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." - Corinthians Chapter 10, Verse 10

(AND, by the grace of God - Hey: Anyone who applies himself, can do it (quite unlike a TRUE "Anonymous COWARD" such as yourself, that has to resort to impersonating others))... apk

Trolls "mod me down" in effete retaliation too? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28666869)

See subject-line & the posts I did in this exchange here, & realize 1 thing: Boys, IF that's "the best you got"?? You've got literally NOTHING...

(LOL!)

This quote (from the greatest book of all time no less), still stands strong:

"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." - Corinthians Chapter 10, Verse 10

And, the trolls with their dirty "not men tactics" (as I call it, & I only call it like I see it, & call a spade a spade & a troll a troll also)? All they have are those...

APK

P.S.=> This is supposed to be 1 of the more "technically oriented sites" around online, & yet all I am getting (almost all) in your replies are TROLLS, who "mod me down" unjustifiably (yet do not mod down the idiots attempting to 'taunt me' in effete retaliation), others impersonating me, & no technical substance or disproving of what I wrote via technical data means... pretty lame showing boys! apk

Re:Thorough article backed up with a lot of data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664813)

Oh really? Tell me, how many different HDD/SSD configurations did anandtech test in the article you link to? 10.
TFA tests 70, almost an order of magnitude more. The funny thing is, you linked to an excellent article with a more technical analysis of SSDs than TFA. I'm sure if you hadn't been so annoyed about my praise for TFA, you wouldn't have bothered posting the link, which will no doubt be very useful to the people who click through to it.

It's like the old joke about Linux forums, where the only way to get any advice is to troll "Linux sucks, it won't do xyz" - and suddenly, dozens of zealots wade into the argument, describing EXACTLY how Linux does xyz .... heh heh, thanks for the help :)

PS If you have any links where Anandtech compare 70+ HDD/SSDs, I'd love to know :)

log scale (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664881)

The format of those charts is retarded. They should have time on the x axis and whatever metric in log scale on the y axis. I couldn't care less which drive from 2005 is linked to a specific data point. I just want to see the trends as a function of time. In the later charts, with apparently fully exponential trends, you can't see whats going on at all.

shit!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28664989)

dying. Everyone ARE A PATHETIC of business and for a living got have their moments Purposes *BSD is that the project to do?wnload the can connect to

SAS, SATA, whatever (1)

mistahkurtz (1047838) | more than 5 years ago | (#28665053)

10k- and 15k-RPM spindle speeds have migrated from SCSI to Serial Attached SCSI and SATA, and ~5k- and 7k-RPM speeds have migrated from PATA to SATA

FTFY.

Re:SAS, SATA, whatever (1)

Extide (1002782) | more than 5 years ago | (#28670329)

I believe that they were referring to the fact that initially 10K disks were only available in an enterprize SCSI platform, where as now you can get a 10k drive in SATA flavor, not that SATA has replaced SCSI.

Noise (5, Interesting)

CmdrPorno (115048) | more than 5 years ago | (#28665283)

Interesting that there appear to be no subjective or objective noise measurements (I did not read the entire article, as some moron has seen fit to split it across twelve pages). I remember when 7200 rpm drives first came out, they were aimed at the server market and a RAID array of them made the room sound like there was a generator running. The 7200 rpm drive in my recent iMac is whisper quiet by comparison.

I assume the newest 15,000 rpm drives are similarly noisy.

Re:Noise (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 5 years ago | (#28666049)

I assume the newest 15,000 rpm drives are similarly noisy.

The current ones aren't as noisy as they used to be, especially the 2.5" drives. Older ones were pretty noisy, but current Nehalem 2U rackservers with a 8 or 12 2.5" 15kRPM drives are pretty quiet - and that includes the noise of the case fans.

My 15,000 RPM drives are very quiet (1)

MasterOfGoingFaster (922862) | more than 5 years ago | (#28704291)

The three 15000 RPM SCSI 320 drives in my workstation (HP XW8400) are very quiet. This machine is amazingly quiet - HP engineers at a trade show say that was one of their design goals and they certainly achieved it.

But at what cost? (1)

justthinkit (954982) | more than 5 years ago | (#28668567)

Is there any drive 750GB or higher in capacity that is reliable? Half the 750GB / 1TB drives I have bought in the past year or two have failed. I am currently pinning my hopes on the 1TB Green Samsung drive that I opted for because it runs slower & cooler. Anyone have a reliable higher capacity drive recommendation?

Noise and Power (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28669279)

I really miss two things in that study;

- How noisy these devices are?

- How much electricity do they use?

Anyone else notice (1)

Extide (1002782) | more than 5 years ago | (#28670325)

that they are using an ancient system to do the tests? I wouldn't be surprised if the system itself is a limiting factor with some of the SSDs. Crazy.
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