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Windows 7 Hits Build 7600 (Possible RTM)

timothy posted about 5 years ago | from the all-aflutter dept.

Windows 671

An anonymous reader writes "One Microsoft Way is reporting that Microsoft has significantly incremented the build number of both Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2: 'Reports across the Web are pointing to a build 7600 for both Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2. This is significant because the bump in the build number would suggest that Microsoft has christened this build as the Release to Manufacturing (RTM) build. The RTM is expected to be given out to Microsoft partners sometime later this month and launched on October 22, 2009, the day of General Availability (GA). The build string is "7600.16384.090710-1945," which indicates that it was compiled just a few days ago: July 10, 2009, at 7:45pm. Microsoft only increments the build number when it reaches a significant goal, and the only one left is the RTM milestone. The last builds that were leaking were all 72xx builds, so such a large bump is suspicious but at the same time it is something Microsoft would do to signify that this is the final build.'"

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671 comments

And the Lord spake, saying, (5, Funny)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 5 years ago | (#28670771)

"First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceedest on to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it." Amen.

Re:And the Lord spake, saying, (1)

V!NCENT (1105021) | about 5 years ago | (#28670831)

And who shalt thou enemy be, my child?

Re:And the Lord spake, saying, (5, Funny)

Heed00 (1473203) | about 5 years ago | (#28670873)

Run away! Run away!

I try to tell them. Just look at the bones!

Re:And the Lord spake, saying, (1)

Brett Buck (811747) | about 5 years ago | (#28670993)

One!
Two!
Five, Uh, Three!

Re:And the Lord spake, saying, (2, Funny)

DevConcepts (1194347) | about 5 years ago | (#28671117)

WHERE ARE MY MOD POINTS!!!!!

Kinda like microsoft, never have there when I need them.

Three.

Re:And the Lord spake, saying, (1)

BatGnat (1568391) | about 5 years ago | (#28671245)

Throw it at "TUTTE HERMSGERVORDENBROTBORDA", the MÃÃse trainer.....

Windows 7 makes me excited (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28670777)

Windows 7 is the first version of Windows that has me excited since as far back as I can remember.

Re:Windows 7 makes me excited (-1, Offtopic)

V!NCENT (1105021) | about 5 years ago | (#28670807)

Everything that makes Windows 7 greater than Vista is what makes Kubuntu Kubuntu. In other words; a total KDE 4.x on Ubuntu Linux experience. So maybe you should switch over to Linux? -> http://www.kubuntu.org/ [kubuntu.org]

Re:Windows 7 makes me excited (5, Insightful)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | about 5 years ago | (#28670881)

Gaming.

Re:Windows 7 makes me excited (1)

mindstormpt (728974) | about 5 years ago | (#28670933)

I believe a pwned is called for.

Re:Windows 7 makes me excited (-1, Flamebait)

3vi1 (544505) | about 5 years ago | (#28671323)

If you're upgrading from Vista to Windows7 for gaming reasons, you've screwed up somewhere.

Performance numbers so far show the games to run at the same speed _or_slower_ under Win7. The only things that run better (like video) are due to MS spending all of their time streamlining the DRM code that will prevent you from using *your* legally purchased files wherever you want.

There won't be any decent use of D3D11 for a long time. Not even MS sponsored games are going to require D3D11, since they want everything to also support D3D9 for porting to the 360.

Personally, I game infrequently - but the half-dozen games I play (mostly HL2 engine games, CoH/V, and WoW) now run just fine under Wine.

Re:Windows 7 makes me excited (1)

gbarules2999 (1440265) | about 5 years ago | (#28671449)

You mistook Win7 for XP.

Re:Windows 7 makes me excited (1, Insightful)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | about 5 years ago | (#28670977)

Oh, you mean, random shit that used to work, doesn't anymore?

Why can't I connect to my wireless network at home?

Why does krunner randomly crash? Or Plasma?

On second thought, maybe you're right. It's things like this that are the reason I left Windows in the first place. Maybe it's time to go back.

Re:Windows 7 makes me excited (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671213)

Well I guess this is what happens when you try to be more like the OS people is used to.

Re:Windows 7 makes me excited (3, Insightful)

plasmacutter (901737) | about 5 years ago | (#28671501)

Oh, you mean, random shit that used to work, doesn't anymore?

Why can't I connect to my wireless network at home?

Why does krunner randomly crash? Or Plasma?

On second thought, maybe you're right. It's things like this that are the reason I left Windows in the first place. Maybe it's time to go back.

Ubuntu is unabashedly and unequivocally built around gnome.

complaining about kubuntu not performing properly is like complaining a stretched hummer limousine doesn't perform to proper off-road specs. Sure they're based on their respective distro/model, but they're both a completely new animal.

If you want a true offroad vehicle you get a military surplus HMMV, if you want a truly seemless out-of-box KDE experience you should get a linux distro built around KDE.

Though, to be candid, I think GP's comparison of windows to kubuntu is humorously apt given the kludgy nature of windows in general (for the record, I use neither windows nor linux, i'm a mac man after a decade of using windows and 2 years of trying out linux distros)

Re:Windows 7 makes me excited (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671085)

Windows 7 is the first version of Windows that has me excited since as far back as I can remember.

"As Microsoft strives to migrate their core technologies from the desktop onto the Web, so too is their propaganda machine migrating from the established press to the informal social web. Microsoft shills are invading social web sites everywhere - in forums, discussion groups, comments to news items, edits to Wikipedia, manipulation of search engines, comments to blogs - posing as innocent participants to promote their agenda and counter wide spread complaints about their shady marketing practises. Even in the comments section of blogs by Microsoft employees on their own corporate site they employ sock puppets to say the things the author felt inappropriate to say directly. They race to place their shill postings at the top spot in the comments section of news and blogs, or perhaps they are given advance notice enabling them to do this where they are a sponsor. The evidence is here on Slashdot for all to see, without embellishments from me. What I say here is amounts to only a digest of hundreds of postings by others. A careful investigator can see for himself the evolution of discussions on Microsoft related issues, especially those accusing them of their usual hard ball tactics. As one reads from Slashdot's historical record on through to recent times, the evolution of Microsoft's efforts to pervert Slashdot's discussions becomes readily apparent. Microsoft's ambition is to twist internet discussions around a full 180 degrees until these discussions become a platform for propaganda from Microsoft's "Ministry of Truth". A study of the comments of the shills posted here can be cross-correlated with postings on other sites. Their pattern of saturating a discussion with shill postings, and the repeating of mindless memes becomes obvious. Their harassment, ridicule, and suppression of criticisms is designed to intimidated those who would speak out against them. They seek to establish and enforce a discipline of giving Microsoft "fair treatment" and their propaganda the same consideration and respect a real person would deserve. In the process they are destroying Web 2 as we know it. This insidious attack on the infrastructure we rely upon to form our opinions in a complex world has both a direct and an inhibitory effect on free speech as a side effect. We must stop this while it is in its infancy. Once it fully established, it will become much more difficult to root out, and other ruthless corporations, organizations, and even governments will want to emulate the success of Microsoft's campaign. This is the nightmare vision of the end of the social internet as we know it."

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1284651&cid=28502473 [slashdot.org]

This guy needs a mod-up (5, Informative)

plasmacutter (901737) | about 5 years ago | (#28671347)

This is quite astute.

I'd also like to point out another story [computerworld.com] detailing a strong statistical anomaly in the speed at which anti-microsoft and pro-linux stories get "buried" on social news sites.

Re:Windows 7 makes me excited (1)

gbarules2999 (1440265) | about 5 years ago | (#28671463)

This should be modded up, if not for the discussion that may come after. ASTROTURF!!!

Re:Windows 7 makes me excited (1)

elashish14 (1302231) | about 5 years ago | (#28671281)

Yes, that's one of their new features, in response to similar concepts introduced by the Linux and Apple communities.

This is stunning news for MS-ophiles! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28670787)

For the rest of us: Not so much.

I actually bought it during the preorder sale. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671159)

While I think all MS products are pretty craptacular, and I'm mostly a UNIX fan for desktop / engineering work, I did buy the $99 Win 7 Pro upgrade preorder just to keep up with a reasonably modern generation of windows. Pragmatically I realize that for at least a couple of more years there will still be a lot of software that runs on Windows and not UNIX / MAC / whatever, so it is good to be able to run Windows when needed (even if only from a VM under your desktop UNIX / MAC).
Now that 64 bit hardware and 4G+ RAM is so ubiquitous, and relatively inexpensive, I find that virtually all the PCs my family has or would be likely to get would be best served by a 64 bit OS, and having 4GB or or likely more of RAM. Thus I feel that XP-32 has pretty much outlived its usefulness as a primary desktop OS for mid-range or better new desktop hardware. That's also true because it seems likely that evolving security patches, security products, as well as media application products will likely function better on Windows 7 / Vista than on XP SP3 as 2010 and beyond progresses and XP becomes more and more of a legacy OS and Vista/Win7 become more and more mainstream.
The things I like about Win 7 are that they upgraded Media Center / Player for H.264 / Divx etc. They didn't go nearly far enough in terms supporting of other codecs (no Ogg, etc.), bad media format / file portability, no intrinsic HD-DVD / Blu-Ray playback (WTF?!), still bad DRM, etc. But at least the more ubiquitous Media Center functionality with integrated H.264 is a good step forward. I'm not thrilled about Silverlight / WPF, et. al. but I concede that to the extent that they'll be perhaps popular, Vista / Win7 are reasonably convenient desktop media platforms to run them on.
They got a clue and included all the features (supposedly) of Home Premium (e.g. Media Center) into the Pro. version, which I applaud -- doing otherwise in Vista was simply deplorable. Personally I think they should have just let all the features of Ultimate be the standard for Home and Pro use, and I think their crippled feature edition product differentiation still sucks (no ubiquitous Home/Pro bitlocker and no Home EFS and no 'full' Home backup tools?! WTF?!), but at least they've taken a tiny step toward making their mid-range Pro edition useful for cases where multimedia support and less crippled networking/security/backup [relative to 'Home Premium'] is important.
So basically I think that 64 bit is the 'killer feature' for mid-range or better desktop use for either Vista or Windows 7. It is good they decided to include 64 bit versions for Home and Pro editions, they should REALLY push for 64 to be the primary installed product, with 32 basically being for some netbooks and really underpowered legacy hardware with 1-3 GB RAM. In the respect of facilitating 64 bit access, Win7 is better than Vista since they made you jump through hoops to get Vista 64 Home/Business in many cases. Maybe by the time they get to Win 8 we'll finally get decent backup / RAID / NAS support, a better filesystem with WinFS and reasonable metadata support and no crippled path length limitations on NTFS, better codec / transcoding support, and truly ubiquitous encryption access/support. By Win 8 they ought to bundle next generation "home server" cloud support into the "family pack" too and have some kind of distributed secure cross-PC "cloud" sync/incremental backup system with transparent file synchronization and off-site encrypted backup integration APIs for internet hosted services like Carbonite, Wuala, Mozy, Windows Live SkyDrive, etc. too -- it's all overdue by years.
They apparently just don't get it about providing good file security (including bitlocker, PGP, ACLs ...), networked backup, transportable file metadata, good integrated search/metadata database based content organization functionality, decent file systems [think ZFS], decent backup, or decent drive content organization. Abolish the registry, turn it into a SQL database if you must, make it possible to install "system files" on a "C" partition that is otherwise read-only except for OS upgrades, no temp files or application installed cruft. Put the system configuration shared database somewhere like "D:" and disallow other use of that partition except for DB and its backups, and allow secure access through application OS APIs only. Make all paths relative or absolute with an easy relocatopn/remapping system so you can actually move things around to new drives/folders/partitions if you upgrade or backup/restore/repartition or whatever. Install applications to "E:" or whatever, each installed application in its own directory only (no spewing onto the OS directory/partition), "portable applications" style, with all its own config/preference/database files living just in this app-private directory tree. Put all "user data" on any other partitions/drives, and don't intermingle that with applications or application/system data, just user content files. Then you could have a sane backup and cross-system upgrade/migration strategy.

I just got sweaty palms... (1, Insightful)

RocketRabbit (830691) | about 5 years ago | (#28670805)

I just got sweaty palms and fell out of my chair.

Seriously? Windows 7? People are really going to play that game?

Does anybody recall any other launch of a Windows product? They always claim to have fixed all the bugs present in the previous one. They have claimed since Windows 98 that there is better security. Vista was supposed to be XP that had been fixed, remember?

After all these years and years of people eagerly anticipating the next Windows provide a lot of laughs, but it's really very sad when you think about it.

Windows 7 is the last appeal from death row. The same tired promises as ever, wrapped in fancier 3D windowing effects.

But but but! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28670971)

This time it'll be different! It will! It will!

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671021)

Seriously? Windows 7? People are really going to play that game?

Yes - it seems there's genuine excitement about Windows 7. From what I can see, it does fix some of the glaring problems with Vista, and adds a few features:

* The backup utility actually lets you select what files to backup again, rather than just "Pictures" or "Documents".

* You can burn ISO files straight from Explorer.

* It's easier to enable BitKeeper. BitKeeper is pretty crap - it needs about 1.5GB unencrypted space to hold the 'system' files - but the installer now creates this space by default, so it's easier to actually turn encryption on.

But, as always, there are caveats:

* The backup utility actually stores backups as sets of 200MB zip archives. What. The. Fuck? Is something like Time Machine (which is like rdiff-backup) so complicated?

* You might be able to burn ISOs, but you still can't mount them. Loopback device anyone? Do I really need to pay $XX, or install some spyware-infested freeware crap, just to mount ISOs?

* BitKeeper is still only available in 'Ultimate' form.

Probably the most useful new feature is the Linux-like window manager shortcuts, so you can maximise, snap to left/right of the screen etc. I've been using these in KDE for donkey's years.

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (1, Interesting)

Pentium100 (1240090) | about 5 years ago | (#28671111)

The backup utility actually lets you select what files to backup again, rather than just "Pictures" or "Documents".

So it's back to the NT4/2000/XP version?

You can burn ISO files straight from Explorer.

Nice, or I can use CDRWIN.

It's easier to enable BitKeeper. BitKeeper is pretty crap - it needs about 1.5GB unencrypted space to hold the 'system' files - but the installer now creates this space by default, so it's easier to actually turn encryption on.

Truecrypt

It's easier to enable BitKeeper. BitKeeper is pretty crap - it needs about 1.5GB unencrypted space to hold the 'system' files - but the installer now creates this space by default, so it's easier to actually turn encryption on.

Seriuosly, why? 200MB is a wring size if you want to record to a CD (3*200MB and 50-100MB of wasted space) or DVD (22 files and 49MB of wasted spae) which would be the most common media people back up to. Is/was there any recordable media with a 200MB capacity?

Do I really need to pay $XX, or install some spyware-infested freeware crap, just to mount ISOs?

You can use Virtual CloneDrive from the makers of AnyDVD HD http://www.slysoft.com/en/virtual-clonedrive.html [slysoft.com]

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (1)

LotsOfPhil (982823) | about 5 years ago | (#28671383)

Echo the Virtual CloneDrive suggestion. How else do you watch DVDs?

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (1)

Pentium100 (1240090) | about 5 years ago | (#28671423)

By extracting the files from the .iso and opening the whole directory with ZoomPlayer. It makes the DVD FAT32-compatible too.

Windows Backup is actually quite good now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671253)

The Windows back up can also be used to store entire disk and system images to external storage. Very, very useful for system restores for testing, dev, etc. Works very well and is very quick. 200GB+ of backup was stored in under half an hour on my system. Restore took about 20 minutes from start to boot of restored system.

For example, the following in a batch file run via Task Scheduler creates a full image of my system on an external drive every week. Couple that with nightly xcopy of documents to a server fileshare (with the server also getting backups to external drives) and you have a pretty robust, cheap and efficient backup system for your home network.

wbadmin start backup -backupTarget:f: -include:c:,d: -quiet

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (2, Interesting)

GreatBunzinni (642500) | about 5 years ago | (#28671305)

* The backup utility actually lets you select what files to backup again, rather than just "Pictures" or "Documents".

Does that justify a multi-hundred euros upgrade?

* You can burn ISO files straight from Explorer.

Wow, something that it's being done in linux since... 2003? And what timing. Who burns CDs anymore? Microsoft releases that functionality exactly when people are starting to use memory cards, USB flash drives and external HDs instead of CDs (measly 700MB of data) and even DVDs.
So what exactly does windows 7 have that is either exciting or even worth a hundred euros?

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (3, Insightful)

cowbutt (21077) | about 5 years ago | (#28671359)

So what exactly does windows 7 have that is either exciting or even worth a hundred euros?

Support for third-party applications that require Windows 7, and security updates past April 8, 2014 [microsoft.com] . Whether that's worth 100 is subjective, of course; personally, that's only worth about 40 to me.

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (2, Informative)

master811 (874700) | about 5 years ago | (#28671363)

It's actually called BitLocker, rather than keeper. ;)

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (1)

Mex (191941) | about 5 years ago | (#28671047)

Absolutely, I'm gonna play that game. I hated Vista, skipped it after trying it for a week, and now that I've tried Windows 7 I'm convinced of moving away from XP.

Everything works (very few apps need to enable "compatability mode"), and it's generally more useable and, well, just pretty, than XP. Plus, 64-bit, and other neat stuff in the UI.

I'm sure W7 is gonna be a big thing, it's been years(decades? Win95) since I've actually been looking forward to a Microsoft new OS.

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671095)

Plus if you pre-ordered the upgrade before last Friday, it was only 50 bucks.

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (1)

gbarules2999 (1440265) | about 5 years ago | (#28671473)

Absolutely, I'm gonna play that game. I hated Vista, skipped it after trying it for a week, and now that I've tried Windows 7 I'm convinced of moving away from XP.

Having used both, I can't understand this. They run the same, they operate the same, they are the same in most respects. The only way they differ in ways most people see is the UI.

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (1, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | about 5 years ago | (#28671145)

People are really going to play that game?

      Redmond is counting on that old saying, "there's one born every minute"...

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (-1, Offtopic)

greerga (2924) | about 5 years ago | (#28671187)

I'm tired of Microsoft so Windows XP 64-bit is the last Windows I'll use. Been running Ubuntu on my home desktop and Fedora on my work laptop (at large corporation) for months now.

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671277)

*points and laughs*

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (3, Interesting)

BatGnat (1568391) | about 5 years ago | (#28671289)

It is so funny, When XP was released I couldn't wait, and loved it, but a lot people said, that they were going to stick with win98, Then vista (which I liked) comes out and everyone says "i'm gonna stick with XP". Just accept it and move on.....

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671299)

yea yea, I know what you are saying, that Linux is the supreme power, crap, Linux as a kernel i guess is ok. But the rest of the packaging stinks. I have yet to use a linux based OS that aktually works as flawlessly as windows. (And MAC OS-X)
The day i use a linux flawour again will be the day it works! Untill then, i will stick to Windows (now 7) or mac os-x. Bye bye

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 5 years ago | (#28671317)

Windows 2000 was pretty good (compared to its predecessors) and I don't remember as much hype that time around as this one. I still remember Windows 98 users telling me their OS was better! Hah! The laughs I had. It was even better once they upgraded to Me. When the Microsoft hype machine is in high gear it usually means this is a mediocre product at best. From what I heard so far it has little to offer versus Vista (which I use right now). But yeah, I'll probably upgrade.

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (1)

elashish14 (1302231) | about 5 years ago | (#28671319)

In defense of Microsoft (someone smack me please), Win7 will have far fewer "features" (ie. bloat) than Vista (or so I hear). This may be a promise of fewer bugs, though that's not to say that there will be none. Besides, they've done more testing by offering free use of the beta/RC than any previous Windows version, so hopefully this will be more robust.

But whatever. Lamb in sheep's clothing, putting pig on a lipstick, etc. /goes back to my super-stable Debian machine.

As Lincoln said ... (5, Funny)

Herschel Cohen (568) | about 5 years ago | (#28671327)

You can fool some of the people All the Time ...

"And that's our target market", said the marketing droid.

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (1)

Jugalator (259273) | about 5 years ago | (#28671339)

The same tired promises as ever, wrapped in fancier 3D windowing effects.

No, actually Aero Glass hasn't been updated noticeably, you troll. ;-)

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (1)

w0mprat (1317953) | about 5 years ago | (#28671345)

So far the difference between Windows 7 and Windows Vista is greater than the difference between Windows XP and Windows 2000, at least in terms of gross development work, although the code base is larger as a percentage of reworking not much would have changed. The interface update is more like 98 -> XP but self-righteous trolls don't seem to see past this.

Microsoft's Tick-Tock seems to be n1xx is a infrastructure release n6xx is the main release where n is NT 5 / 6 / 7 (Win2K was build 2195, XP 2600, Vista 6000, Windows 7 7279 the last time I looked). 7600 is a bit of a jump, not a real number of builds.

Windows 7 is the last appeal from death row. The same tired promises as ever, wrapped in fancier 3D windowing effects.

Oh you were trolling. I shouldn't have posted, now I can't mod your ass down.

Re:I just got sweaty palms... (3, Insightful)

f0dder (570496) | about 5 years ago | (#28671415)

Dude, you need to stop eating toe fungus. I like linux but my customers use Vista & I forced myself to use it. After SP1 it wasn't the doom & gloom everyone here made it out to be. The more you scream stuff that don't match users experience the less persuasive your argument becomes. It makes you look like a ranting lunatic. BTW Vista has a larger OS market share than linux + apple combined .. not exactly an appeal from death row.

OK, Since this is a non-event... (3, Interesting)

phantomfive (622387) | about 5 years ago | (#28670827)

I have a question I've been trying to figure out. What exactly is going to be the effect of Windows 7? I think there are a few issues, but I haven't been able to come to a clear conclusion. There are a few issues:

* Windows 7 is like Vista, except without as many obvious bad things.
* If Microsoft writes it, people will put it on their systems. OK, Vista showed that's not entirely true, but it didn't cause a switch away from Windows, only down to XP. So, will people begin to switch away from Microsoft, or move on to Windows 7? All it has to do is be no more annoying than XP.
* Netbooks: hardware is getting cheaper and cheaper. WIll this cause people to switch to Linux (it's a $50 - $100 savings on a $200 computer)?
* Apple: OSX keeps getting better and better. Will they make enough improvement that people want to switch away from Microsoft?

I don't really know the answers to these issues, but I've been trying to figure out.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (2, Interesting)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | about 5 years ago | (#28670897)

The difference is that people are excited for 7, something that did not happen with Vista. It took almost 2 years for most techies to admit Vista was ready for the desktop. Win7, on the other hand, is on a LOT of techy desktops already.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (5, Insightful)

bmo (77928) | about 5 years ago | (#28670985)

That's because Microsoft has been directly "leaking" 7 to the p2p sites this time around.

I put that in quotes because it should be obvious by now that the leaked builds of 7 have the blessings of Redmond. Remember, they will give it away to keep you from even considering alternatives.

"And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade." William Gates III ca. 1998. http://tinyurl.com/nbo55t [tinyurl.com]

--
BMO

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (1)

EdZ (755139) | about 5 years ago | (#28671151)

And Vista was leaked in exactly the same way. The difference now is that the new driver architecture that was introduced in Vista (and was the root cause of the vast majority of stability complaints) has been around long enough for any lingering bugs to be ironed out, and for anyone with truly ancient hardware to have decided to stick with XP anyway. Thus, windows 7 builds have been comparatively more stable and useful than Vista builds at the same state (and only a little more wobbly than a properly updated Vista install is now).

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 5 years ago | (#28671377)

Yes, it is sort of like Windows 2000 vs Windows XP all over again. I wonder it it will also have a green on blue theme...

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (4, Insightful)

Anpheus (908711) | about 5 years ago | (#28671291)

Leaking? Jesus, the beta and the RC were both widely and easily available, and you can still download the RC.

The leaks are just that, they really would rather you not play around with the unofficial builds which have a lot of other debug functionality turned on a lot of the time.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671031)

So what you're saying is, 2010 will truly be the year of Windows on the desktop?

apple needs better hardware like a real desktop to (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | about 5 years ago | (#28671035)

apple needs better hardware like a real desktop to get people and big business to switch. The mini is too limited but the big part of that can be fixed by having a easy to open case and a desktop hd and imac does not fit in to there reuse the old displays that a lot of do. Also the mac pro is bad as they can get a systems from dell , hp and others for about $1000-$1500 less with more ram and better base video card.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (4, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | about 5 years ago | (#28671049)

* Apple: OSX keeps getting better and better. Will they make enough improvement that people want to switch away from Microsoft?

I think OS X will only really beat MS if either A) Apple releases -cheap- computers or B) Licenses it out to other OEMs that make cheap computers. I mean, when I can buy a $400 laptop (not a netbook but a laptop) with Windows on it and do just about everything that a $999 Macbook can do, the choice is clear for most people. Yes, there are a few niche things that require OS X, but the vast majority of software works by default on Windows and may have a Mac port. I would imagine that a lot of people would love to have OS X rather than Windows but for a laptop that is $600 more than the competition that does the same thing, I can't see people flocking over to Apple when PC hardware is dirt cheap. Yes, Apple hardware is cheaper when you go by a component to component basis, but really for the average person, 3 gigs of DDR2 is going to be better than 3 gigs of DDR3 when the DDR3 RAM costs way more. If Apple lowers their prices, I can see them dominating, but these days who wants to pay $999 for Apple's cheapest laptop when you can buy a netbook for under $300 and a full laptop for $400 and under.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (1)

MrMista_B (891430) | about 5 years ago | (#28671179)

Both of which, Apple making cheap computers, but especially Apple licencing OS X out to OEM's - would destroy the company.

It almost /did/ destroy Apple as a company, utterly, in the 90's. Thank god they put a stop to that, or things like iPod's wouldn't exist.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (2, Interesting)

Darkness404 (1287218) | about 5 years ago | (#28671275)

...Because making cheap computers has destroyed all other companies? If Apple can make a huge quantity of computers running OS X they can make a huge profit. You can see effectively the same thing with iPods, they have sold quicker when the prices have decreased. Back when an iPod cost $500, sure, people still had them, but not in the quantity people do today when they cost less then $200. If Apple can reduce a good laptop down cheaply enough, they can do the same thing as with iPods and get people to buy them like crazy.

It almost /did/ destroy Apple as a company, utterly, in the 90's. Thank god they put a stop to that, or things like iPod's wouldn't exist.

The problem wasn't just licensing and selling cheap crap, it was the fact that Classic Mac OS was overly outdated. Windows was actually better in many ways than Mac OS. Today, you have the exact opposite, OS X is built on more solid design principles than Windows is, has a better looking GUI, and in general provides a better user experience. Back with Classic Mac OS when compared to Windows NT, you had Mac OS having an older looking GUI, (I mean, comparing Windows 98 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Windows98.png [wikipedia.org] and OS 9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mac_OS_9_screenshot_2.png [wikipedia.org] ) to the average person Windows 98 looks more "advanced".

As for licensing OS X out to third party manufacturers, it might be disastrous, or it might be a rampant success. You have to remember, its not the '90s anymore, after Vista the mindshare for MS products went way down and unless Windows 7 can salvage it, people are going to be looking for another OS. Perhaps licensing a OS X "compatibility pack" or GUI pack?

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (2, Interesting)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 5 years ago | (#28671393)

Oh such things would exist. Ever since Napster showed the power of P2P song sharing and the Diamond Multimedia Rio came out, it was only a matter of time until someone nailed it. As usual, Apple gets credit for something they didn't invent. GUI (Xerox PARC), WebKit (KHTML) and the list goes on.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (3, Insightful)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 5 years ago | (#28671429)

FWIW when Apple actually try to be among the first in a technology segment, they fail. Newton and Pippin are examples.

apple shuold have thinker systems and not higher p (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | about 5 years ago | (#28671431)

apple should have thinker systems and not higher pried thin system come on the older imacs had real video card now most of them have 9400m at with laptop dual cores at prices where you can get a desktop core i7 systems with much better video cards at the same price levels.

And PEOPLE WANT MATE Displays, Not have cpu power tied to screen size, easy to get HD come on the dell and others AIO have at where it is very easy to get to the HD, and whats up with mini DP and no free mini dp to DP and mini dp to dvi cable?

The mac video cards should of had a full size DP port with a free DP to mini dp cable as well maybe even 2 DP ports with a free DP to DVI DL cable and DP to mini DP.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (3, Insightful)

Draek (916851) | about 5 years ago | (#28671061)

The main change is that Microsoft goes back to marketing a product people actually want. From what I can see, pushing Vista damaged their credibility pretty strongly, but with 7 they'll likely regain much of that trust, and in fact already have with the open beta/RC.

Other than that, nothing really, OSX isn't a contender and won't be for as long as Apple continues to ignore the business market, and Linux' freedom is far too tempting to OEMs to avoid fragmenting it and make it a viable long-term replacement for Windows.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (0)

Krneki (1192201) | about 5 years ago | (#28671197)

Am I the only one who sees Win7 pointless?

I like to play games and browse the web, I'm using both Linux and XP. But since I can't play games under Linux and I can't be arsed to dual-boot I stay in XP most of the time.

I saw some benchmark of Vista in games and I see no advantage over XP, now I'm checking Win7 and again XP is still ahead. DX10 could be a reason to upgrade, but then I'd have to waste even more money on the PC and game makers don't dare to drop dx9 support.

I say no thanks, XP is more then enough for me. And anyway I never install a M$ product before SP1.

Apple? I don't give a shit, games don't work and is over-priced.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (2, Insightful)

Mrwirez (1596695) | about 5 years ago | (#28671269)

I think XP will be phased out sooner rather than later by choice. I have been running the RC on a netbook for months and have upgraded all the way to build 7264 on my desktop. It is very fast, smooth and probably what Vista was supposed to be. I have XP on another partition and have not fired it up in months... With the great looks and solid performance in Win7, XP looks like it was made for children. I think M$ has a real winner here. 2010 may be the year XP dies... I ran Vista for about 3 months then rolled back to XP... It SUCKED! We will see...

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (1)

Krneki (1192201) | about 5 years ago | (#28671353)

How much RAM Win7 needs?

My XP with anti-virus needs 150MB.

As for the look, I always use no-detail. I hate interface lag.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671409)

Yeah, lets worry about RAM because it's so expensive these days. I mean who can afford 20 whole bucks for 2 gigs?!?

But seriously, Windows Vista and 7 can do a lot more than XP with RAM. Put a lot of memory into an XP box and it will just sit on it with little to no performance gain. Put a lot of memory into a Vista/7 box and it will actually use it to dramatically speed up the entire computer well beyond anything XP could hope for.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 5 years ago | (#28671491)

Yeah, this is about my usage scenario as well. I use Windows as a glorified games console/web browsing system. Funny thing is, older DOS games work better over a multi-platform free software program (DOSBox), than plain Windows itself. I suspect we will get to a point when Wine is better at running pre-dx10 games than Windows itself is. Also, the game I played the most recently was, believe it or not, Plants vs Zombies which might as well have been a Flash game... Pretty insane. Ok, ok, I played Mass Effect before that.

Re:OK, Since this is a non-event... (2, Interesting)

Tony Stark (1391845) | about 5 years ago | (#28671397)

Windows 7 is going to be the "reassuring" Windows. I believe this is Microsoft's business plan: release something good, hook the people. Release something crappy, the hooked people will buy it, then pay for the tons of tech support they will need. Release something good to remind the people why they got hooked in the first place. Release something crappy to make money off tech support, etc, etc, etc. I just don't think Windows users will ever catch the dragon.

Build number (4, Interesting)

VGPowerlord (621254) | about 5 years ago | (#28670837)

This does indicate it may be the RTM build, but not because it has a new build number... but because it has a build number ending in 00.

Larry Osterman's post Thinking about Windows Build numbers [msdn.com] goes into this in more depth.

Re:Build number (1)

erpbridge (64037) | about 5 years ago | (#28671129)

It does seem like this may be the RTM build, although the timing is a little early yet.

My first reaction was the build number 7600 is very similar to the XP build of 2600 (yeah, I'm grasping at straws here.) It would be in MS favor to strongly relate this to XP and try to distance themselves from refencing Vista, which the correlation I just noted might help backup in people's minds.

However, the timing is just a little too early. The stated general retail release date from June's Computex is October 22. Historically, a MS OS RTM is released 30-45 days prior to the general retail date. That would place the RTM as beginning of September at earliest. Even a generous 60 day RTM date would place the date in mid-August, a month from now. Pressing and stamping aside (and what's to say a RTM DVD can't be downloaded over the net from a registration server similar to how volume and open license customers can already do), that's a little early yet.

And can anyone draw any significance from 16384 being 2^14? Or would that just indicate something like the 14th build of the master OS?

Re:Build number (1)

Mr. Vage (1084371) | about 5 years ago | (#28671229)

Well its been rumored for a while that Microsoft would release the RTM build tomorrow, so this probably is it.

Re:Build number (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | about 5 years ago | (#28671235)

While you may be right, this is also the first public beta of a Windows operating system (that I'm aware of). I was in the Vista beta, and there were several Beta versions (instead of just Beta 1) and even several Release Candidates (instead of just RC1) before Vista came out. It seems Microsoft is fast-tracking it's release. And before anyone says this is a bad thing, they had a lot of time to iron out the bugs with Vista (more or less the base of Win7) so they shouldn't need AS much time to get 7 out the door, even properly.

yes, i think so (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28670849)

I have 2 roommates working at microsoft and they both mentioned that the RTM build was finished this last week.

LIAR!!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671029)

MS employees have no need for roommates, they earn enough to have their own place. Unlike the Linux, who barely pays their code monkeys.

will they update the rc? (1)

ZosX (517789) | about 5 years ago | (#28670929)

is the rc code just frozen in time with security updates or are they going to upgrade it to rtm levels? i'm asking because i was actually thinking about installing the rc and using it for a while on a laptop. $300 is not much less than the cost of the damned laptop. You think OEM licenses will be cheap? :)

Re:will they update the rc? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671005)

They are absolutely going to upgrade to RTM and higher levels. You just have to buy all the upgrades that will come neatly packaged in a Windows 7 retail box.

Re:will they update the rc? (1)

LO0G (606364) | about 5 years ago | (#28671019)

Why would they update the RC?

Does any OS vendor issue security fixes for their betas once the product has shipped?

Re:will they update the rc? (1)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | about 5 years ago | (#28671097)

The final RC and the RTM should be the same, except for version strings. That's the whole point of having RCs instead of just betas.

Re:will they update the rc? (2, Interesting)

AndrewNeo (979708) | about 5 years ago | (#28671243)

A lot of builds for 7 go on internally that aren't released to the public as Betas or RCs. Most of them have been leaked to BitTorrent. I can promise you that there's a newer build number available after 7100.

Re:will they update the rc? (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | about 5 years ago | (#28671127)

You should've just preordered the Windows 7 Home Premium upgrade for $50 (or Ultimate ed for $100). Unfotunately, that offer ended this past Friday. If you already have the laptop, chances are really high that you already had a prior XP or Vista license that was eligible for the upgrade.

Re:will they update the rc? (1)

John3 (85454) | about 5 years ago | (#28671149)

Microsoft is officially supporting RC to RTM upgrades, as they have done with prior betas. This does two things:

1: Encourages corporate users to install the RC on machines since they can later upgrade to RTM without doing a clean install

2: Encourages sales of RTM since everyone that installs RC will eventually be forced to upgrade or clean wipe to an older Windows version when the beta software expires (next year some time I believe).

RTM has already been announced. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28670961)

Its already been announced that the RTM is coming out either Monday or Tuesday. Not sure why this is news.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9135199/Reports_Windows_7_heads_to_RTM_July_13?taxonomyId=89&intsrc=kc_top&taxonomyName=operating_systems

Re:RTM has already been announced. (1)

Vectronic (1221470) | about 5 years ago | (#28671105)

I'd like to see nicknames (4, Funny)

kabdib (81955) | about 5 years ago | (#28671067)

I'd like to see nicknames, like:

Bellicose Bill
or
Ballistic Ballmer
or
Screamin' Steven

rather than boorrrrring build numbers.

Just sayin'.

Re:I'd like to see nicknames (1)

Abreu (173023) | about 5 years ago | (#28671223)

Yeah, Ubuntu has spoiled us

Re:I'd like to see nicknames (4, Funny)

Ihmhi (1206036) | about 5 years ago | (#28671271)

Chair Chucker!

Re:I'd like to see nicknames (1)

elashish14 (1302231) | about 5 years ago | (#28671357)

I like Chair-chucking Chimp to be honest....

Re:I'd like to see nicknames (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671471)

An atrociously alliterated appellation !

beta! (2, Insightful)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | about 5 years ago | (#28671087)

That's nice but wake me up when it leaves beta^H^H^H^H SP1

Windows never leaves beta quality (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671337)

The difference is that MS re-wrote the definition of "production quality" to their advantage.

By MS definition:

Beta = not usable.
RC = Alpha quality (ie: usable but not stable)
Production = Beta quality (ie: semi stable, but not finished)
SP1 = RC quality (stable, un-cleaned)
SP2 = RC2+ quality (stable, semi-cleaned)
SP3 = Pre-Production quality.

Our world is saved! (1)

SL Baur (19540) | about 5 years ago | (#28671093)

Does this mean I can go out on the streets dancing naked and burning my Linux and OS X DVDs?

Re:Our world is saved! (1)

MoeDrippins (769977) | about 5 years ago | (#28671263)

You /can/, sure...

Re:Our world is saved! (1)

BatGnat (1568391) | about 5 years ago | (#28671343)

NO!
That is bad for the environment.....

And coke reintroduces coca cola classic (2, Funny)

plasmacutter (901737) | about 5 years ago | (#28671233)

A while back coke.. err i mean microsoft.. introduced "new coke".. err.. i mean windows vista.. which was an unfort--*cough*purposeful*cough*--unate flop.

Then, they released "coca-cola classic".. err.. i mean windows xp again...err.. i mean "windows 7".. which the public raved was so much better than before!

HURRAY! *cough*and microsoft gets away with zero innovation by simply engineering expectations*cough*

Re:And coke reintroduces coca cola classic (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671329)

With the huge exception that Vista is actually faster and better than all versions of Windows prior to it.

People who still whine about Vista being a terrible OS are obviously people who have never used it. I've been happily using Vista for a year now and I couldn't have been more wrong about it before I actually used it. It's a nice operating system.

Re:And coke reintroduces coca cola classic (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | about 5 years ago | (#28671387)

"As Microsoft strives to migrate their core technologies from the desktop onto the Web, so too is their propaganda machine migrating from the established press to the informal social web. Microsoft shills are invading social web sites everywhere - in forums, discussion groups, comments to news items, edits to Wikipedia, manipulation of search engines, comments to blogs - posing as innocent participants to promote their agenda and counter wide spread complaints about their shady...(click link to read on [slashdot.org] ).

Wow!!! (-1, Troll)

Alien Being (18488) | about 5 years ago | (#28671255)

A bunch of sheepherders have decided to fleece their flock yet again. In other news, the Sun continues to rise in the East and Steve Ballmer continues to be the second biggest cunt ever born.

Re:Wow!!! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671297)

Did you get first or third?

Genius marketing (1, Insightful)

atomic-penguin (100835) | about 5 years ago | (#28671331)

Say what you will about Microsoft, but they are geniuses when it comes to marketing. I mean they can tell everyone that 6.1 is equal to 7.0, and sell Vista to the same pissed off customers again at $400 a head.

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28671413)

Fuck microsoft

The only reason they have styled their build #'s based on 72xx and 76xx is because Cisco is a world leader in communiation and they are trying to ride their train. Tell them to get their own train !!!!!!

-yep I'm an0nymous!

I am going to take a chance on Windows 7 (3, Informative)

Orion Blastar (457579) | about 5 years ago | (#28671437)

I pre-ordered a copy for myself and my son.

Of course my Laptop will dual-boot both Windows 7.0 Pro and Fedora 11, so that if Windows 7.0 fails me, at least I have Fedora 11 to use. I will try to use the Windows XP virtual machine option with 7.0 Pro to run legacy software.

My son has been begging me for Windows 7.0 so I got him a Windows 7.0 Home Premium, I could not afford two 7.0 Pro copies, so I bought him a Home Premium version. If he needs the 7.0 Pro version Microsoft allows an upgrade to 7.0 Pro via the Internet and I can afford that later if needed.

If the XP virtual machine does not work to well, I'll be buying two old copies of XP Pro from pricewatch.com and run them in Sun VirtualBox later. I hope I don't have to do that, but the current Windows XP licenses would be invalid after the upgrade to 7.0.

My son's system uses a wireless adapter that does not have Linux support, and he showed no interest in Linux, most of his games work in Windows XP, and if they don't work in Windows 7.0 I'll look for upgrade patches to work with 7.0 or he'll have to skip playing those games until I can get a virtual machine set up to play his games.

Both systems were Vista boxes, downgraded to Windows XP Pro, so they should run Windows 7.0.

I know I am taking a risk, but I hope to find out what problems friends and relatives will have when they upgrade to Windows 7.0 as they'll be calling me and asking for help. Upgrading from XP requires a reformat and reinstall, and most of my friends and relatives are using XP and some are using Vista.

I preordered before July 11 to qualify for that half off special on upgrade copies. I am not sure if the old XP licenses will still work if Windows 7.0 fails and I have to reinstall XP, or if I have to buy new licenses for XP to switch back to XP.

Anyway I could always buy my son a wireless card that works with Linux and install Fedora 11 with WINE and see if that runs his video games better than Windows 7.0 and save money on XP licenses and virtual machines, and teach him how to use Linux as an alternative. But it is more important that he learn how the Windows upgrade process works and any troubles with it and how to resolve them. Right now to him the Windows 7.0 is cool, but if there are issues and it won't run his video games, he will learn that sometimes newer technology is not always better and even if it looks cool, it might not always do what he wants it to do. Because eventually they will upgrade to Windows 7.0 in his school, too bad they don't support Linux.

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