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Staying Afloat In a Sea of iPhone Apps

Soulskill posted about 5 years ago | from the is-there-an-app-for-finding-apps dept.

Cellphones 149

Burnsy writes "During all the hype of Apple celebrating its 1.5 billion iPhone App Store downloads, some good advice on how to be successful and stand out in the App Store came out. One story describes how developers are increasingly coming up with various strategies to make a splash, employing everything from temporary discounts to guerilla marketing tactics. On the other hand, some successful developers, such as the creator of the Flight Control app, which has been the number one selling app in 20 countries, talk about the pitfalls of Apple's approval process for the App Store. They say it can take a developer up to three months to get an application approved and distributed on the App Store and that maybe the iPhone bubble is soon to burst." A related story at Wired points out that the games category — already crowded with over 13,000 entries — is getting even more competitive as the major game publishers push into the market.

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149 comments

No burst - phase change (5, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 5 years ago | (#28703767)

The App Store has a tremendous number of small apps that are minimally useful.

But it also has a small number off apps with deeper functionality that are really useful - and that subset of apps is growing, and will provide real value. Those apps are much harder to build. Those apps generally require infrastructure and marketing and all the things we traditionally think of with applications - this article hints at that as developers have discovered to sell a product they need, of all things, advertising!

Far from being an app bubble, we are simply seeing a transition into a more mature market with richer products. Because it's so easy and cheap to create apps I'm sure we'll always see a ton of simple apps, but the market will grow on from that base instead of contracting as the term "bubble" would imply. If nothing else, the soon to be flood of augmented reality apps and apps based around custom hardware will ensure that.

Re:No burst - phase change (4, Interesting)

andrewd18 (989408) | about 5 years ago | (#28703879)

Far from being an app bubble, we are simply seeing a transition into a more mature market with richer products. Because it's so easy and cheap to create apps I'm sure we'll always see a ton of simple apps, but the market will grow on from that base instead of contracting as the term "bubble" would imply.

Quoted for truth.

One could have the exact same argument about the x86 Windows-based market in the 90's. So many applications popped up that the market was flooded; take CD burning applications, for example. Roxio, Nero, Sonic, CloneCD, Power ISO, Ulead... all applications vying for consumer attention that do the exact same thing. In the end, the competition just widens the field, increases choice, and spurs innovation, both in the software and advertising fields.

In the end I expect iPhone apps will be sold primarily by word of mouth.

Re:No burst - phase change (4, Insightful)

rho (6063) | about 5 years ago | (#28704525)

Yeah, no kidding. After all those years of "There are no applications for Macs! Buy a PC!" in the press, now we get "There are too many applications for the iPhone, IS IT DOOMED?????"

Morons.

Re:No burst - phase change (1)

JAlexoi (1085785) | about 5 years ago | (#28707725)

It's too big of a jump. It's like trying to jump over the Grand Canyon after training on you local moat.
And still Mac has only a fraction of software available for Windows.

Re:No burst - phase change (1)

artemis67 (93453) | about 5 years ago | (#28704597)

Think about how complex the PC and console gaming industry is... game developers rely heavily on reviews published on popular websites and in magazines, along with all of the advertising revenue they spend, and the money they spend to secure shelf space in retail stores, and even TV and radio advertising.

The App Store is just coming out of its infancy, where an app can shoot up in popularity simply by virtue of being the first of its type on the market, and almost all of the marketing was done by Apple. Smaller review sites are popping up on the web, while some of the big players have yet to really come online (I see that Gamespot has some iPhone reviews on their site, but still lacks a tab for the iPhone/smart phone gaming).

There's going to be a lot more spent on marketing, in a variety of outlets; it also means that we are going to have to pay more for games to cover all of that marketing expense. This whole industry of mobile apps is just getting started.

Re:No burst - phase change (1)

xouumalperxe (815707) | about 5 years ago | (#28704479)

Far from being an app bubble, we are simply seeing a transition into a more mature market with richer products. Because it's so easy and cheap to create apps I'm sure we'll always see a ton of simple apps, but the market will grow on from that base instead of contracting as the term "bubble" would imply

How is the phenomenon you're describing different from the internet bubble?

Re:No burst - phase change (1)

ajs (35943) | about 5 years ago | (#28704487)

You're right, but sadly (as with today's Android/Blackberry Google Voice announcement), almost all of those apps with deeper functionality will come out last for the iPhone until Apple starts to treat app vendors like partners, rather than serfs.

Actual iPhone Developer Response only please (1)

EraserMouseMan (847479) | about 5 years ago | (#28705111)

What is involved in developing an application for the iPhone? Even just a simple Hello World app. What OS, programming language, IDE, emulator etc must you use to do the actual development?

Also, any overall comments on unexpected difficulties and/or surprisingly nice aspects are welcome as well. Thanks!

Re:Actual iPhone Developer Response only please (4, Interesting)

BSDimwit (583028) | about 5 years ago | (#28705531)

To develop iPhone apps, you must have the following. 1. Intel based Mac or hackintosh. (there are ways around it but it's easier to stick with x86 macs)
2. Download the free iPhone SDK. This SDK includes Xcode which is the IDE that most mac devs use the iPhone cocoa touch libs and an iPhone simulator app to test certain kinds of apps.
3. Learn Objective-C and Cocoa Touch libraries (plenty of books for this)
4. Pay Apple $99/year to test your apps on an actual device and sell your completed app on the App Store. 5. Profit!

Re:No burst - phase change (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28705303)

The App Store has a tremendous number of small apps that are minimally useful.

The Android Market suffers in the same way. The vast majority (80+%) of the applications available on the Android Market are down right crap. Many applications, which are the most popular, are often far less functional then those that have 1/10000 the number of downloads yet don't get additional downloads simply because they are less popular. Furthermore, unlike Apple's store, people actually want to pay for iPhone apps. On the Android Market, maybe a dozen apps and games have sold enough to allow the developer to continue developing.

Even worse, rather than support their developers, ensuring additional application growth, pirating of pay applications in the Android Market is easily as high as 100 to 1. Meaning, for every one application purchased, its illegally pirated 100 times. If you stop and think about the fact that these applications typically cost less than five bucks, many less than a dollar, these idiots are downright dooming the Android Market. Its one thing when the level of piracy can be measured as a fraction of sales but when piracy out paces sales buy thousands of percent and almost no developers can afford to keep developing for the platform as a direct result, something needs to be done.

In short, if you own an iPhone or Android phone, support your developers! Many of these developers have hundreds of hours of development time invested in their applications. Just because its a phone application does not minimize the level of effort required to develop. If you own one of these phones, you can obviously afford to support your developer base. As is, the Android user base is working overtime to destroy the very developer base they are stealing from. If you have stolen applications on your phone, remember, you're literally dooming these developers to failure. That means no more updates and fewer innovations. If the application is worth stealing, its worth paying for; especially at these prices. Its not like they are $50 applications.

And speaking of prices, for the most part, application prices are so low developers simply can not afford to competitively advertise in the way over inflated online market. In order to actually serve the developer base well, the minimum application price needs to double or triple. And to compensate for the runaway theft of applications, prices need to double or triple again. In short, the minimum application price needs to increase to $4.00 - $6.00 to cover the over inflated online ad market and excessive theft. That means high quality applications need to be priced around $10.00. If you don't want prices to continue to climb, or desertion of the developer base, stop stealing applications and support your dang developer base already!

Seriously, as for the Android Market, with over two million phones and rapidly growing (9-10 million by years end), and only a dozen or so developers able to support their business, something is seriously broken in Android land. With over 2500+ apps and if we assume only 10%-20% are actually worthy buying, that's still 250-500 applications worth your money. That's a far cry from twelve. That means less than 4% of the Android developer base is actually supported by its user base. And yet free applications have 100,000-250,000+ downloads; and they often provide far, far less functionality than their for-pay counter parts.

So come on guys, stop stealing and destroying the very market you say you want to support. Go support your developers! Stop destroying the developer base!

Re:No burst - phase change (1)

rgviza (1303161) | about 5 years ago | (#28705665)

iFitness is a perfect example. That took a ton of work and research to build and provides good information, which is valuable and useful. 4.5 * apps are very rare and that's how it's done. There are roughly one bazillion apps that simply repackage google maps.

Re:No burst - phase change (1)

Thaelon (250687) | about 5 years ago | (#28706073)

this article hints at that as developers have discovered to sell a product they need, of all things, advertising!

In a broader sense, yes, most of the time. But not so much in this case.

The market for the apps is tiny, and very nearly 100% of the market can find your app and acquire it in seconds.

With that kind of market, with that kind of convenience, all you really need is word of mouth. And not much of it.

The best way to make an app popular is not to advertise it, but to make it so good that iPh?o(ne|d) users will recommend it to their iPh?o(ne|d) user friends.

I have about 30 apps on my new iPhone. The very first ones I added can be attributed directly to friends' recommendations. So can about half or more of total installed apps. And a quarter of the rest? Apps recommended by other good apps, or tie-ins with apps that I personally like. But the vast majority of the apps I installed were based on personal recommendations from personal friends.

If your app really stands out as being good, people will find it without spending a dime on advertising. If you have to advertise it, I'm already skeptical about how good it is that you had to advertise to get me to hear about it.

Re:No burst - phase change (2)

Elshar (232380) | about 5 years ago | (#28706747)

 

You know what's really annoying me about the app store is these companies that make the stupid mmo games, and to a lesser degree, the ebook peoples.

 

In the first example, the mmo games, one company will churn out say 10-20 (I'm not exaggerating) variants of it, and stick it into all sorts of categories other than RPG. So when you go to find an actual RPG, or a strategy game, or whatever, you end up having to dig through the whole mess of them. and since there's easily a 6-10 of these developers, it's just pages of garbage.

 

With the ebook peoples, some companies have a proper reader which you run and buy books that way. Others have a seperate release for every single book they've published. So if you search for, say, "ebook" or "reader", you end up with (again) pages and pages of garbage ($25 for an ebook fanfic about WoW? All I can say is... Wow.).

 

Anyhow, it seems that even though the process is taking longer, they're still going for quantity over quality. I wish they'd change their policies around, but I believe that's being optimistic.

iPhone? More Like KikePhone (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28703819)

I guess if enough of them overheat and burst in to flames, at least we will have a few less living Jews and a few more char broiled Jews.

When life gives you lemons, coordinate with Germany to exterminate the Jews.

Browser problems⦠(-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28703843)

I just downloaded Google Chrome [google.com] 3.0.192.0 for Mac [apple.com] and it crashed before I could even open a page. There is no excuse for this; my Mac Pro [apple.com] is perfect in every way with eight 2.93 GHz cores [intel.com] , 32 GB RAM, and a fresh install of Mac OS X [apple.com] Leopard v10.5.7. Ergo any crashing Google Chrome does is Google Chrome's own fault!

Why is it that Apple [apple.com] and Mozilla [mozilla.com] can do this but Google [google.com] can't? I ran Internet Explorer 8 [microsoft.com] for months before its final release, Firefox 3.5 [trollaxor.com] since its 3.1 days, and found Safari 4 Developer Preview [apple.com] more stable than Safari 3. In fact, even WebKit [webkit.org] is more stable than Chrome.

What really baffles me, however, isn't the instability [computerworld.com] I've come to expect from Google, but that Google has the audacity [bullsballs.com] to ask for personal user info to improve its browser. Is the search engine maker datamonger really so desperate for my private information that it's stooped to the level of Trojan horses [wikisource.org] to get it?

They should ask me that when it doesn't crash on launch.

Everything Google does is just another way to sieve personal data away for targeting ads. This kind of Big Brother [google-watch.org] crap is more repulsive than the fat [trollaxor.com] programmers [shelleytherepublican.com] that make it possible. Google, with its deep pockets and doctoral scholars [nytimes.com] , thinks that by holding user data hostage it can maneuver around Apple and Microsoft [micrsoft.com] . While this may be true, I'm not willing to be a part of it.

In using Google's search [google.com] , Gmail [google.com] , Chrome [apple.com] or whatever else the faceless robot [wikipedia.org] of a company invents, the user is surrendering their personal information to a giant hivemind [google.com] . No longer are their personal preferences some choice they make; they're a string of data processed by a Google algorithm: Google dehumanizes [wikipedia.org] its users!

So while Google is arrogant enough to paint spyware shiny so it can parse our browsing habits, the least they could do is make sure it doesn't crash. If Apple, Microsoft, and Mozilla can get their preview releases right, why can't Google? And now they're making their own operating [scobleizer.com] systems [pcworld.com] ?

Get real, Google! I'll use your crashing codebloat when my Mac is cold and dead and I'm looking for handouts. Until then, quit mining [goatse.info] my personal data!

Re:Browser problems⦠(0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28704337)

I know that links are the basis for the internet, but come on...

So.... how many of them are worth using? (3, Interesting)

Colin Smith (2679) | about 5 years ago | (#28703847)

300 notepad applications, only a couple are going to be worth installing, never mind paying for. The same will be true of any category.

Re:So.... how many of them are worth using? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Monkey (795756) | about 5 years ago | (#28703947)

Hay, no talking bad about Linux...er...never mind.

Re:So.... how many of them are worth using? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28704125)

If they were talking about Linux, none of the apps would be worth installing. Open sores software is crappier and more amateurish than that Gorillas game written in QBasic that even a 10 year old can write.

Re:So.... how many of them are worth using? (2, Interesting)

Ilgaz (86384) | about 5 years ago | (#28704723)

or J2ME or even Symbian. At least, there is free market I would say. There is no "app store" to say "duplicates functionality". It is USER who says "bleh, this sux" and presses C button on its icon to uninstall application. No harm done...

Apps like Profimail and Opera Mini proves that if you code a really good application, you stay on guys device and in case of Profimail, guy even pays for it. I picked these 2 because they are coded in J2ME instead of "native" Symbian C. You can`t believe how hard it is to succeed for a J2ME app on a smart phone let alone getting picked instead of a thing already coming with it in its ROM. Well, they succeed. Open market gives that chance.

Re:So.... how many of them are worth using? (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | about 5 years ago | (#28705221)

Wouldn't he be talking about VI and Emacs then?

Re:So.... how many of them are worth using? (1)

Magnusite (526038) | about 5 years ago | (#28704503)

The same thing happened in the early days of home computing. Sixty different word processors for the Apple II, which one is worth it? Joe swears by Wordstar, but Jane likes Bank Street Writer. What we had back then were magazines like Byte and Creative Computing to help inform us about features and caveats. I think toucharcade does some of this for the iPhone, but I worry about how easy it is to shill on these sites.

Staying Afloat ? (4, Funny)

ciderVisor (1318765) | about 5 years ago | (#28703887)

There's an app for that !

as an end user.... (3, Insightful)

Em Emalb (452530) | about 5 years ago | (#28703923)

It's both incredibly awesome and incredibly frustrating at the same time. I love that I can think of something and sure enough, there's an app for it. But at the same time, sometimes there's 50 apps doing basically the same thing and it's hard to weed the chaff from the grain.

I don't think the bubble will burst, but it will level off some.

There's only so many people world wide willing to plunk down money on an iphone, but the people that have, it's not like they're gonna stop buying/downloading apps.

Re:as an end user.... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28703949)

It's both incredibly awesome and incredibly frustrating at the same time. I love that I can think of something and sure enough, there's an app for it. But at the same time, sometimes there's 50 apps doing basically the same thing and it's hard to weed the chaff from the grain.

Sort of like Windows?

Re:as an end user.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28704575)

Or computers in general? Or say, cars? Someone need to "weed the chaff" from slashdot I'd say.

Re:as an end user.... (1)

artemis67 (93453) | about 5 years ago | (#28704651)

I think it means that Apple is going to have to develop a more sophisticated interface for browsing the App Store. With 65,000 apps available, you just know that most of that has to be shovelware.

Don't mix metaphors! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28704873)

Weeding the chaff from the grain. No.

approval process blues - developers causing it! (4, Insightful)

ardiri (245358) | about 5 years ago | (#28704001)

as an iphone developer (http://www.mobile1up.com/) - one who has been there from quite early on, i have started to notice how long it takes to get approved. in the early days, it was 3-4 days for a new version or update; now, i have two applications waiting in the approval process, it has been over two weeks! is apple employing enough people? i think so. the issue is that you get morons who think they need to release a "special" version of their application 100 times; take, for example, there was a weather application posted recently - one for each city in the united states.. come on; how much wasted time is there for apple to approve all 100 of these apps - when they could have approved one. with the introduction of "nude or raunchy" content; submissions have increased exponentially; now you dont get a fart app - you get a fart app with a hot girl in it.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (2, Funny)

WiseWeasel (92224) | about 5 years ago | (#28704095)

Something must be done! Now what's this hot girl farting app you speak of? I'll pay $50 for one!

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (1)

artemis67 (93453) | about 5 years ago | (#28704697)

Two Girls, One Cup of Refried Bean Dip

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (0)

Darkness404 (1287218) | about 5 years ago | (#28704137)

How about Apple should really just do a simple scan for malware and be done with it. An "approval" process is needless, stupid and ends up filtering way too many good applications. For example, look at Nintendo during the NES/SNES eras. Apple should build an automatic scanner for malware and approve apps that are malware free in a matter of hours.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (2, Insightful)

k_187 (61692) | about 5 years ago | (#28704317)

For example, look at Nintendo during the NES/SNES eras. Apple should build an automatic scanner for malware and approve apps that are malware free in a matter of hours.

As a counter example, consider Atari before the crash of '83. There's a balance to be had between allowing everything and keeping out crap.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (2, Insightful)

Serious Callers Only (1022605) | about 5 years ago | (#28704671)

There's a balance to be had between allowing everything and keeping out crap.

Unfortunately Apple's approval process is nowhere near that balance, and is moving further away from it. It doesn't keep out the crap, and cannot, as that's a very subjective judgement call, and not one that Apple tries to make - they ban apps for all sorts of silly reasons, but not because they are rubbish or useless (or we wouldn't have 100 flashlight apps).

Any non-automated approval process just isn't feasible when you have a worldwide store serving millions of people and 100,000 developers. This problem is only going to get worse, until Apple bows the inevitable and stops wasting their employees' and developers' time with this manual approval process.

What they really need to focus on is improving the ways to find the good stuff in their store - at present it's very difficult to discover apps by browsing or searching - there's no 'customers who bought this app also liked' or recommendation lists from other customers, or any sort of extended editors' choice sections within genres, and search throws up all sorts of mismatches and is being actively gamed by developers. They should be focussing on improving their store interface rather than wasting time trying to limit the apps (though a limit of x no of apps per developer would do a lot to help to weed out all the crappy duplicate apps out there).

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (1)

JerRocks (885412) | about 5 years ago | (#28705061)

While I agree with nearly everything you said about the problems of the App Store, I do want to point out that there is a "Customers also bought" feature in the iTunes App Store already (at least when accessed via the desktop iTunes application)

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (1)

Sparton (1358159) | about 5 years ago | (#28708403)

(though a limit of x no of apps per developer would do a lot to help to weed out all the crappy duplicate apps out there).

I'm not sure it would. I recall that Nintendo tried to pull that with the NES (only two games per developer per year), and all that ended up happening was either A) companies would have subcompanies that they stated weren't actually related to the main one, or people made and released "illegal" karts that were the X in 1s.

Of course, the App store won't suffer from the latter case (unless you're releasing to the jailbroken scene), but the first point could make things messy, as then Apple would have to try to verify that a company or individual isn't trying to abuse the system by signing up under different guises.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | about 5 years ago | (#28708121)

The crash of '83 would have not been prevented by having NES/SNES era approval. The two biggest culprits were, not surprisingly, first party games. ET was made and distributed by, Atari as was Pac-Man. The decision to make many more copies of Pac-Man than consoles available (!) was made, unsurprisingly by Atari as was the overproduction of E.T. That is what lead to Atari's downfall. You think that would have been stopped by Atari?

The other reasons included competition and advertising for video game systems marketed as "computers" along with the typical "ZOMG!111!1!1 Playing Space Invaders will rot your child's brain!1!!111!" reactions by parents when a "computer" was seen as something they could take to college with them (I feel sorry for any student who had to use a C64's keyboard to write any sort of lengthy paper).

The main reason Nintendo/Sega/etc. managed to change public opinion is simply the rising standards in video games. No longer was it profitable to write an entire "game" of pure advertising for a console. Back with the 2600, a team of three people could easily make a decent game. The NES was more complex so it required a lot more people, this lead to the decline of large companies having just a small video game team.

Nintendo didn't end up fixing the problem. It fixed itself, all the "seal of approval" was, was simply censorship and marketing. If you have played some NES games other than the ones we remember fondly, you will see that a ton of them, are terrible.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (0)

beelsebob (529313) | about 5 years ago | (#28704323)

Yes, because an automatic malware scanner is possible to build. Oh wait, no, that would involve solving the halting problem.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | about 5 years ago | (#28704915)

Are you telling there is no heuristics, code analytics, power analysis going on while application gets to the app store?

Apple also analyses the application in Sony way. Does it compete or would dare to compete with their iTMS? Would it take away people from iPhone services? Did Developer bitch about Apple or harmed Apple somehow in the past? iPhone developer scene publicly is just 5-10 heroic guys telling their mind and the rest are anonymous cowards for a good reason. Of course, those 5-10 guys are so advanced and gifted developers with huge piles of money that if Apple makes the mistake of rejecting their application, it will be Apple`s loss since all apps will appear on every single platform except Apple in matter of months.

People really think Flash and J2ME is not included because Apple thinks about them. It really makes me ROTFL. No, they aren`t included because you can code APPS with them and they are -by nature- decentralized.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28704443)

IANAID!

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | about 5 years ago | (#28704817)

Can you watch progress or know who actually approves your app? I mean, what if some MS certified idiot who somehow got the job at Apple doesn`t approve your application for no reason rather than not understanding what the heck it is or misunderstand?

For example, is there an interface saying "APP-291 rejected, reason 10023" or you just upload it and pray?

Trust me, if I was a Developer, I would always keep a Nokia 5800 (touch based Symbian) release maintained just in case. I understand there is no reason to ship same thing for a keypad based or hybrid phone even if possible but Symbian S60 V5 shouldn`t be missed, especially for European user profile.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28705109)

Haha, look at this high scool crybaby.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (1)

ConfusedVorlon (657247) | about 5 years ago | (#28707435)

pretty much just upload and pray

after about a week (sometimes several months) you get a rejection email

that _will_ have a reason, but the reason may be factually incorrect.

I had an app rejected multiple times for 'having it's own javascript interpreter'
that just wasn't true

It took 7 months to get the app approved. Most of that was just waiting for apple to respond after a period of 'extended review'

Another app of mine has been sitting waiting to be approved/rejected for about two months.
Previously it was rejected multiple times for reasons which (again) were simply factually incorrect.

no appeal process, no begging, all you can do is re-submit and pray.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (1)

hesaigo999ca (786966) | about 5 years ago | (#28705453)

I would love to pick your brain about developing an app, as a developer myself, I am looking to be able to do a few different things with my treo, if not my iphone, and I am wondering about finding someone like yourself, where I could ask very specific questions which only mobile developers would be able to answer!

Have any links or websites, I could send you emails to?
Thnk of it as free advertising as well!
    : )

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (1)

shawnce (146129) | about 5 years ago | (#28705941)

It is backlog related to the iPhone 3.0 OS release. A lot of existing applications have been submitted with fixes/enhancements related to 3.0. Also Apple has a larger test suite to run against the application submitted, validating 3.0 and 2.x compatibility, etc.

As a guess... I give it another month or so for things to calm down.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (1)

The Qube (749) | about 5 years ago | (#28708659)

That's what I was expecting as well, but the most recent update to my app 2-3 weeks ago took only 3 days to approve.

Re:approval process blues - developers causing it! (1)

The Qube (749) | about 5 years ago | (#28708631)

Yes, I noticed the weather example - the developer was trying to spam the "New Releases" section of the App Store. But the approval process is somewhat random. For my app, Virtual Cricket [virtualcricket.mobi] (cricket scores), it sometimes takes just 3 days to get an approval for a new version and sometimes almost two weeks. It is extremely frustrating.

Frustrating For Developers (4, Informative)

quangdog (1002624) | about 5 years ago | (#28704007)

I've released a few apps on the app store, and have met with some success with them. However, the single most frustrating thing is the approval process for getting an app released in the first place, and publishing updates on a continuing basis.

I recently updated one of my apps, and it took Apple 16 days to review the executable and publish it. I then updated my other app, and it took 14 days.

Seriously? 2 weeks? There is nothing more frustrating than to have users contacting me saying "when will feature xyz arrive?" and my response have to be along the lines of "I've submitted it to apple 2 weeks ago. They'll approve it when they approve it. There is nothing I can do to speed it up.

[Shameless Plug]:
For any who are interested, here are the apps I've written:
Velocity [apple.com]
Points [apple.com]

Re:Frustrating For Developers (0, Troll)

Darth Maul (19860) | about 5 years ago | (#28704127)

We just got our first app approved, and it took 14 days. But hey, at least it wasn't rejected for some trivial reason like I've read happens to quite a few developers. It does appear somewhat of a black whole where you just wait and wait after rushing and staying up nights to finish - feels very anticlimactic once it's finally approved because you've waited so long. I'm not looking forward to pushing the next update and telling users to "just wait". Shameless plug: XPilot [7b5labs.com]

Re:Frustrating For Developers (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | about 5 years ago | (#28704245)

I've released a few apps on the app store, and have met with some success with them. However, the single most frustrating thing is the approval process for getting an app released in the first place, and publishing updates on a continuing basis.

I recently updated one of my apps, and it took Apple 16 days to review the executable and publish it. I then updated my other app, and it took 14 days.

Seriously? 2 weeks? There is nothing more frustrating than to have users contacting me saying "when will feature xyz arrive?" and my response have to be along the lines of "I've submitted it to apple 2 weeks ago. They'll approve it when they approve it. There is nothing I can do to speed it up.

Well, it's probably a manpower issue at Apple. There's no doubt the App Store is a success, but that's probably the problem - it's too successful. Apple basically created a platform, and within a year, 50,000 distinct apps have been created for that platform. And that's distinct apps - if you counted individual versions of apps, that could easily have been a quarter million or more apps they've checked.

There haven't been much precedent in the past where within a year, you have 50,000 "products" for a completely brand new platform. It's something the competition has noticed. Apple comes onto the market, then a year later, makes an SDK available, and a year later, have 50,000 apps available - most other platforms have taken years to get to that point.

It's caught Apple offguard definitely - they started very strict and loosened their app requirements, which has only made things even worse as now more people can submit apps. Then they have to hire approvers en-masse, which results in consistency problems (see all the app rejects), people who don't realize the app review process also checks online content accessible through the app, etc.

Then you also get the idiot developers who release one app, modify it a little bit, then release it again... I'm talking about those weather/stock/ebook apps, where instead of one app, Apple has to review 100 of them. Eventually we'll reach a point where the apps waiting for approval and Apple can keep up. 50,000 apps is just under 137 new apps a day (going 24/7/365), or if you count many versions (like Pocket God, on its 21st release) of apps, it could be the better part of 1000 new app submissions a day that have to be reviewed.

I'm not surprised it takes only 2 weeks. It's probably improved from the months it used to take. Heck, it's probably why all the other app stores aren't trying to do the same thing - there's not enough manpower to review a potential flood of apps (at the very least, Palm can't afford it, Nokia, Microsoft and RIM probably can). Which has a nice side effect of appearing more "open" than Apple. (I guess during peak periosd its worse - holidays and the like as people make "special editions").

Re:Frustrating For Developers (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | about 5 years ago | (#28704369)

You might want to put at least a short description of what those apps are and what they do. This is slashdot, where people don't even RTFA.

Re:Frustrating For Developers (1)

quangdog (1002624) | about 5 years ago | (#28704447)

Velocity [apple.com] is a speedometer calibration application that relies upon you tapping the screen as you pass markers to determine your speed. It does not use the accelerometer, gps, etc. Just you tapping and math.

Points [apple.com] is an acupuncture reference library, intended for students studying for boards, and for the experienced practitioner wishing for a quick review.

Re:Frustrating For Developers (4, Informative)

Arslan ibn Da'ud (636514) | about 5 years ago | (#28704421)

Might I recommend that if you wish to provide a link to an iPhone app, don't link directly to iTunes. Not everyone has iTunes installed on every machine? (Last I checked there was no Linux version.) Instead provide a link to your app via AppBeacon [appbeacon.com] .

For instance: Velocity [appbeacon.com]

They mirror the info iTunes provides, also providing a iTunes link. But that way I can review your app on my linux box and buy it directly, or buy it later on my mac laptop. (No, I don't work for AppBeacon, just a satisfied netizen.)

Re:Frustrating For Developers (0, Offtopic)

quangdog (1002624) | about 5 years ago | (#28704523)

I'll do ya one better. How's about links to the separate sites that promote these apps?

Velocity [incredicode.com]
Points [miridiatech.com]

Thanks for the tips!

Re:Frustrating For Developers (1)

gpalyu (995482) | about 5 years ago | (#28704863)

Nice review of your own app by the way (Velocity). Slashdotters should know better :(

Re:Frustrating For Developers (4, Funny)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | about 5 years ago | (#28705079)

Not everyone has iTunes installed on every machine?

But then... how would you live?

Re:Frustrating For Developers (1)

Arslan ibn Da'ud (636514) | about 5 years ago | (#28705319)

Not everyone has iTunes installed on every machine?

But then... how would you live?

Quietly.

Re:Frustrating For Developers (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | about 5 years ago | (#28705001)

Are you comfortable with public posting like that? It is not like you spread FUD or Spam of course but if you think about it, you don`t see or know who that "Apple guy" doing the approval is. What if he reads slashdot and say "Oh are you bitching? You will see what approval process is." and make you wait 5 weeks instead of 2?

I always admired the patience of developers, especially open source/freeware ones but app store really carries to some amazing degree.

Re:Frustrating For Developers (1)

LurkingAbout (748820) | about 5 years ago | (#28706795)

I can second this with some recent, hard info.

My partner and I spent the past 3 months developing an iPhone word game named Bon Mot! We are confident in it's quality and originality. Apple's review process took exactly two weeks, which meant that by the time Bon Mot! was accepted to the iTunes App Store (July 10th), it appeared on PAGE 6 of newly released word game apps (as viewed in iTunes on a computer, not on an iPhone). As best we can tell, Bon Mot! never appeared on any front page of the app store due to the volume of incoming apps (2 to 10 word games per day -- many of which were accepted more quickly than ours).

We're following all of the advice of the "get your app noticed" experts (i.e. creating demo videos on YouTube [youtube.com] , submitting review requests to the various app review sites, and participating in every discussion we can find -- like this one). We'll see... but my sense is that the iPhone app marketplace is simply too saturated for a small-time entry to be noticed.

[Shameless Plug]: theapporchard.com [theapporchard.com]

Re:Frustrating For Developers (1)

mr_zorg (259994) | about 5 years ago | (#28707525)

I totally agree. Although my initial app submission was approved relatively quickly, I've had some pending bug fixes for over three weeks now to address the occasional glitch. Then they turn around and reject the update citing the dreaded "Your application duplicates the functionality of the built-in iPhone application iPod without providing sufficient differentiation or added functionality, which will lead to user confusion." Then why'd you approve it in the first place? Oddly enough, they didn't reject the app completely, it's still available, just the update. I've appealed of course, but... The worst part is there's no-one you can TALK to. It's email only, which they may or may not answer. Arg!

Here's my shameless plug:
FlickTunes (website) [sogeekysofware.com]
FlickTunes (iTunes link) [sogeekysoftware.com]

Re:Frustrating For Developers (1)

mr_zorg (259994) | about 5 years ago | (#28707599)

Crap, sorry. Typo in the website link. That should be:

FlickTunes (website) [sogeekysoftware.com]

And yes, I did preview, just didn't test my own link. Doh.

So many little, crying babies... (2, Interesting)

foo fighter (151863) | about 5 years ago | (#28704023)

Yeah, it's too bad that it's harder to find good apps in the App Store when there are 50,000 than when there were 5,000.

But that only means you now have to work for your supper, like any one else who publishes anything from books to music to movies to software.

The same goes for those who complain that if they charge $50 for their app no one buys it.

Wow, welcome to the world of microeconomics and price theory. And, again, promotion.

Here's a clue: you don't have to use the app store as the only or even primary venue for promotion and discovery of your app. Yes, it's harder now than it was, but that's life in a competitive market place. The barriers to entry are lower than they've ever been for such an awesome platform, but that doesn't mean that becoming a success is any easier (nor should it be, if economic theory even kind of works as we understand it to) than it ever has been.

Frakin' cry babies. Suck it up, wipe off your crocodile tears, and make something awesome.

If you have anything legitimate to cry about it is Apple's dystopian app approval process.

Re:So many little, crying babies... (2, Interesting)

nine-times (778537) | about 5 years ago | (#28704177)

Yeah, it's too bad that it's harder to find good apps in the App Store when there are 50,000 than when there were 5,000. But that only means you now have to work for your supper, like any one else who publishes anything from books to music to movies to software.

Still, I think Apple could do better organizing the apps. For one thing, their categories are too vague. For example, the IM clients are all in "social networking" along with tons of other crap.

Since Apple is keeping tight control of distribution, I think they're somewhat obligated to make it easier for people to find what they're looking for, for the sake of both developers and customers.

Re:So many little, crying babies... (1)

the_wesman (106427) | about 5 years ago | (#28708045)

Frakin' cry babies. Suck it up, wipe off your crocodile tears, and make something awesome.

telling a "cry baby" to wipe off his "crocodile tears" doesn't make any sense - if he's a cry baby, he's crying for real - if it's crocodile tears, then it's fake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_tears [wikipedia.org]

Lonely male teenagers (0, Offtopic)

Sybert42 (1309493) | about 5 years ago | (#28704031)

Never seen a female developer.

Anti-competitive (0, Troll)

davidwr (791652) | about 5 years ago | (#28704069)

The Apple monopoly on The App Store is anti-competitive.

Others who want to run similar stores should be able to do so without favoritism to Apple's store.

Any EU antitrust authorities reading this message.

Re:Anti-competitive (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28704361)

Apple's monopoly over the iPhone is anti-competitive, all these chinese companies that could make iPhones too but are prevented from doing so... A scandal !

Re:Anti-competitive (1)

beelsebob (529313) | about 5 years ago | (#28704387)

Others can and do run similar stores... See the nokia store, RIM's store and the Android store.

Re:Anti-competitive (1)

Octorian (14086) | about 5 years ago | (#28704689)

But RIM BlackBerry developers are not required to use RIM's store to distribute their apps. They can (and do) distribute them directly.

And 3rd parties (i.e. Mobihand/Crackberry) have created their own app stores too, which are probably more usable than RIM's implementation.

Re:Anti-competitive (1)

beelsebob (529313) | about 5 years ago | (#28707527)

Quite, which is just more evidence that apple is not being anticompetitive.

Re:Anti-competitive (1)

AP31R0N (723649) | about 5 years ago | (#28704509)

That's the Apple business model. They're not about letting others play as a means to control user experience. If M$ built a winPhone many companies could sell apps through several channels. The trade off would be that M$ couldn't guarantee/control what happened on those sites. If you want a gimped system that "just works", go with Apple. It you're feeling lucky there's everyone else.

Personally, i like the M$ model of letting others play. Windows created shit tons of jobs despite the quirkiness of their software and anti-competitive practices. Their product/system is also, overall, cheaper and more flexible.

i despise iTunes. My employer gives me a free iPhone, so i use it. But i wouldn't pay for it if i had to. It's a chore to use.

Re:Anti-competitive (1)

exhilaration (587191) | about 5 years ago | (#28705205)

If you jailbreak, you can access the Cydia app store [saurik.com] , which is awesome, and has stuff that Apple would never approve. You can install things like tethering apps directly from your iPhone, it's as functional as the official app store.

you're a dumbass (1)

Uberbah (647458) | about 5 years ago | (#28706339)

This is competition, not being anti-competitive. Every company that sells trademarked or patented products has a product "monopoly". Do you also bitch & moan that you can't play Wii games on your XBox?

When, and only when, Apple obtains a market monopoly can you have some cheese to go with that whine.

tournament economics (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28704101)

From what I have heard from the few people who made apps they made about $2/hour when you take into account how many hours they spent on it. Yes they still have the potential to be discovered and pull an iShooter which also seemed like a forgotten app but then made a strong comeback but it is like lottery odds for that to happen for most of the apps. A lot of the 3D games are semi-financed by tie-ins to movies so it is already very hard to compete in that arena. How are you going to beat $1-5/app high quality 3D games developed by huge teams of developers and graphics artists when you don't get money from movie producers for making it.
There are winners but I have yet to hear of the multi-million dollar app. Even the winners like iMoron and iFart seem to have only brought in a few hundred thousand dollars after Apple's 30% take. If you take a Software Eng salary at about $85k (national average), these people are kidding themselves if they think they will keep making similar money making iPhone apps in the long term.
I feel sad for the people who quit their day jobs thinking they will make yet another blockbuster app. They monetary hype never existed. It is tournament economics. My guess is most people just do it for the fun of it and to say they have done it. Sort of like open source software.

Developers are delusional Sometimes (1)

Webcommando (755831) | about 5 years ago | (#28705533)

Parent points out very valid concerns about expense to create an application.

Having built applications for a variety of platforms from WinCE to J2ME (yeah, I thought that would be a winner) and now iPhone, I've never assumed much success. I'm a single developer with probably limited talents compared to others and I tend to do niche applications.

I think back many years ago my WinCE application for managing a RPG session (yes, I still like pencil and paper RPG's) made me about $1k USD. Enough to buy PDA's but wouldn't quite my day job.

That being said, I still love doing it because "I" can create something "I" think is cool and don't need a team of developers to make my vision come to life. I think hand-held applications are a difficult place to make a living for a small developer unless you get some buzz from an external force (Apple or some viral factor like iFart). You need to do it because you enjoy it and, hey, maybe something great will happen. Don't be delusional that you've got the next big thing that will sell itself without any help.

I won't bother to plug my application since I'm probably one of a small number who cares about Game Mastering tools :)

Re:tournament economics (1)

coldtone (98189) | about 5 years ago | (#28706593)

Personally I've had better luck with free apps.
Flash Banner [appbeacon.com] Took 2 hours to write, and has made over $200 though ads. (That's money transferred to me, not pending earnings)

Not much mind you, but still a decent return. (Minus the $99 dev fee of course)

There's a fair number of useless apps (4, Informative)

i_want_you_to_throw_ (559379) | about 5 years ago | (#28704247)

My advice, jailbreak your phone. Apple touts the sheer number of apps as something wonderful but I don't need 5 different apps that can make my iPhone into a flashlight.

Jailbreaking my iPhone in the first hour yielded me apps from Cydia that allow me to record video, tether my iPhone and most importantly blacklist callers and SMS. Just this morning I successfully got Perl 5.10 running on it.

Point is, just don't look to the App Store if you want something useful.

Re:There's a fair number of useless apps (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28704453)

I'm sure perl will be a great help in administering your http server... from your iphone.

Re:There's a fair number of useless apps (1, Insightful)

Ilgaz (86384) | about 5 years ago | (#28704679)

Consider me old fashioned or some sort of militant person. I still keep staying away from iPhone since a device requires to be hacked to gather full functionality doesn`t make sense to me.

I keep my love-hate relationship with Nokia and Symbian instead while using some really good J2ME apps. Being an OS X user myself and knowing what can it actually do really bugs me more about iPhone. I was also heart broken when Apple decided to make some FUD about J2ME instead of simply saying "No, we don`t include it.". Taking down network etc was really too much. Even MS didn`t go that low when attacking Java because of their own reasons.

I also have problem with "user profile" of it but it is an ongoing issue since I purchased my G5 tower so, it is not something Apple can fix anyway ;)

Re:There's a fair number of useless apps (1)

MobyDisk (75490) | about 5 years ago | (#28705407)

I am starting to agree. I got an iPhone because I knew so many people who raved over it, and it is a great device. But right out of the box I was shocked at how little I could do with it. I can't put my documents on it, or my pictures (which are all nicely organized into folders and subfolders like 99% of the population does). I can't use it as a flash drive, can't even sort my bookmarks, which I can't sync to the device anyway since I don't use Safari. It is so severely crippled I'm debating taking it back.

Whereas a jailbroken phone can do all of the above with no difficult at all. As can every other smartphone on the market.

Graphics Designer's point of view (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28704255)

Shameless plug for any iPhone Devs before I start; if you need any graphics/icons doing go to my site, Graphics Forge [graphicsforge.co.uk] So I do icons and graphics for the iPhone quite a bit, and what I see is a lot of devs that wouldn't normally be "in business" trying their hand at iPhone work. And sadly whilst there are some real geniuses, at least 75% of the new guys are hopeless dreamers that have no clue what they want (either from the app or from me, their designer) and seemingly put little to no thought into their app or why it might sell, do no marketing at all apart from a tiny site and the AppStore, then wonder why it flops miserably and leaves them out of pocket once they've paid me, the music guy, and sometimes the web-guy as well. It's shame, but over time it is stabilising. yes we still get new devs, but hey tend to be filtered out by the growing number of god developers that are coming in with experience of how it works and the knowledge to make it go. Thankfully most of these devs are also small-time or single-man companies, so they still need my services. If the AppStore became the sole domain of Sega, EA et al, i'd be stuffed.

Re:Graphics Designer's point of view (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28707943)

The Segas and EAs will always leave room for the little guy in the App Store model. They have too much overhead to compete against the $.99 apps. I'm perfectly happy to see them sell $4.99 and $9.99 apps while I go after the $.99 and $1.99 market.

Open source will make a difference (1)

garaged (579941) | about 5 years ago | (#28704349)

I'm pretty sure the FLOSS community will continue to develop what is worth, and for free

Game market will always be game market, but almost anything else that is worth a penny, will be developed open source for iphone too.

Re:Open source will make a difference (1)

amorsen (7485) | about 5 years ago | (#28704847)

I'm pretty sure the FLOSS community will continue to develop what is worth, and for free

I highly doubt that, apart from jailbroken iPhones. Windows CE has approximately zero free software after more than 10 years. I use zero free software applications from the App Store. I use a couple of gratis applications, but those are add-supported and the source is neither available nor open.

Re:Open source will make a difference (1)

Late Adopter (1492849) | about 5 years ago | (#28707121)

I use Spaz (a FOSS Twitter client) on the Pre.

I just want to know (1)

sucati (611768) | about 5 years ago | (#28704375)

why do I have to pay 99/year to tinker with the SDK and install apps on only my phone. wtf apple! what is the great threat of me installing an app that on my personal phone?

shitty platform has a shitty service (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28704425)

and you people are surprised?

No apps that use the headphone multibutton (1, Offtopic)

Blixinator (1585261) | about 5 years ago | (#28704483)

Yesterday, I found out that the headphones for the iPhone have a button and a speaker, so I went to the world wide web and looked for some apps that used this multi-button but couldn't find a single case of an app that takes advantage of this button. I'm not sure if the resources needed to use it are in the SDK, but it would be interesting to see what some of these developers could come up with if they had access to this neat little feature.

BTW (1)

garaged (579941) | about 5 years ago | (#28704541)

One thing I'm really sorry about apple app store is their sad classification system, when they actually work on that part, it will be trivial to find what you're looking for, for now, it's just a matter of patience and hope

Simplest solution: Market expansion! (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | about 5 years ago | (#28704843)

Make your app run on Symbian and possibly J2ME too, and gain up to 5000% from the approx. 2% global market share of the iPhone. :)

(No, iPhone fans, I am not playing this down. I respect the iPhone for what it is. It's just that its global market share is really tiny. I wish your hopes all the best. But with statements like "Java is dead", and being the only phone to not have it, Jobs is not making many friends. ^^)

Sure it may be outside of the box of what you expected as an answer. But it's not a bad idea isn't it?

I also strongly recommend an outside-of-Apple site of your own, where you can lead people to completely circumvent them passing by other products. Put it up high in Google etc. instead, and create some "word-of-mouth" in some target group forums. Where people really would be interested in it, and not even see it as advertisement, because it just fits with what they want to know about. :)

If you do all this, the whole iPhone store could collapse, and you would have a big chance of floating on the top.

Re:Simplest solution: Market expansion! (1)

rgviza (1303161) | about 5 years ago | (#28705777)

Java is alive and well on phones. The AmazeGPS app I started 3 hours ago should be coming up any time now on my LG phone... hopefully the bluetooth (for the GPS Puck) isn't bugging out necessitating me to restart it ...

App Store promotion isn't the solution (1)

Spittoon (64395) | about 5 years ago | (#28705041)

Increasingly the App Store will become more like Amazon, with it's billions of items for sale. It will contain references from one product to another, it will contain suggestions based on the user's preferences and purchase history, but overall the App Store will cease to be the only way people market their apps.

Remember all the other ways there are to make sure people are aware of your iphone app. The larger developers, and the larger clients (like Barnes and Noble and State Farm) already know this and market their apps through their traditional channels-- television ads, posters in stores. Everyone is going to have to do this, and the little guy is going to have to get on board.

I think you'll see consortiums of iPhone app developers forming, pooling their marketing muscle, joining together to make "labels" of like-minded people or tools of the same ilk.

But eventually, just getting your app into the Top 25 and having a 99-cent sale isn't going to cut it. There will simply be too many apps for that kind of ploy to work. And thank god for that-- I'm a consumer; I don't want the App Store to have a limited number of apps in it. For one thing, who's going to pick and choose what apps are good enough? Apple? They have a hard enough time just enforcing their current rules without making subjective quality judgements. Best to let the market decide, I think, even if that means the deepest marketing pockets will get the most attention. There will always be "underground" places where little-known apps are talked about, and there will be people who seek them out. This is how the jailbreaking communities survive-- both for iPhone and stuff like the Wii or Xbox.

Why not..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28705047)

Why not just get it over with a change the site to Apple Fanboi site?

iPhoneAppReviews.net (0, Troll)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 5 years ago | (#28705321)

There is really a plethora of apps out there. http://www.iphoneappreviews.net/ [iphoneappreviews.net] helps sort through the mess.

Re:iPhoneAppReviews.net (1)

mromanuk (1318649) | about 5 years ago | (#28706537)

true, but also the problem is how to get your app reviewed. I have a small entertainment app iBadge [apple.com] And it is really hard to get this reviewed. I have submitted it in a lot of places without much success...

Re:iPhoneAppReviews.net (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 5 years ago | (#28707399)

I think we have about 1200 apps sitting in the review queue.

Use the submit form on the website and put in there attention T. J. Brumfield and I'll look for it.

Craig Hockenberry: Year 2 (2, Informative)

c4t3y3 (1571639) | about 5 years ago | (#28705645)

Craig Hockenberry: Year 2 [furbo.org] is possibly the most thoughtful piece about what Apple needs to improve, why, and how. You may want to pay him a visit.
  • The root of the problem: software is not music. Songs sell without iTunes, songs don't harm the device, songs don't bug. But songs are also not essential to sell the device...
  • Approvals: Emergencies..., Maintenance releases aren't viable...
  • Upgrades: currently there is no upgrade revenue...
  • Better rules: clear rules will make the process easier for everyone...
  • Better experience for customers: Product evaluations..., Respond to reviews..., Finding apps..., Charge us more money..., Pricing...

approval process (1)

Polo (30659) | about 5 years ago | (#28706963)

As a customer of these apps, I DON'T CARE how long the approval process takes, I might even LIKE it.

I *love* the fact that apple is looking at what is being written into these apps!! I don't want harmful or risky stuff to get on my phone, and if something bad happens, I want them to have the ability to do something about it.

If the approval process takes a long time, maybe it will also make people think carefully before they send send an update to apple.

I especially think that apple should slow down developers that are sending out apps just to get to the top of the "recent apps" lists.

Shit? (1)

Godkar (921825) | about 5 years ago | (#28707101)

Btw, shit floats...
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