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Creativity Potentially Linked To Schizophrenia

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 5 years ago | from the better-make-a-few-more-loony-bins dept.

Medicine 215

mcgrew writes "New Scientist is reporting that creativity may be linked to schizophrenia via a common gene. Szabolcs Kéri, a researcher at Semmelweis University in Budapest, Hungary, carried a study of creative people. 'Kéri examined a gene involved in brain development called neuregulin 1, which previous studies have linked to a slightly increased risk of schizophrenia. Moreover, a single DNA letter mutation that affects how much of the neuregulin 1 protein is made in the brain has been linked to psychosis, poor memory and sensitivity to criticism. About 50 per cent of healthy Europeans have one copy of this mutation, while 15 per cent possess two copies. People with two copies of the neuregulin 1 mutation — about 12 per cent of the study participants — tended to score notably higher on these measures of creativity, compared with other volunteers with one or no copy of the mutation. Those with one copy were also judged to be more creative, on average, than volunteers without the mutation.' They hypothesize that people with this gene with high IQs are creative, while those with lower IQs are simply prone to the hallucinations that characterize the disease."

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I couldn't understand that at all (0, Troll)

alta (1263) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735531)

I think that means that I have 1 gene. Or maybe 2. Or none?

And I'm an artistic schizo? No, I know that's not true, I don't have a creative bone in my body.
Yes I do.

Re:I couldn't understand that at all (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735631)

I swear this happens at least weekly... and now for the obligatory ,"schizophrenia is not the same as dissociative identity disorder". Your joke makes you look ignorant.

Re:I couldn't understand that at all (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735809)

To be fair, schizophrenia does come from the Greek for "split mind". The fact that it's used to label a disorder characterized by a distorted perception of reality rather than dissociative identity disorder (which may or may not be a real disorder anyway), is rather unhelpful in trying to emphasize the difference.

Re:I couldn't understand that at all (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735977)

you're dumb as a nigger. go fuck yourself.

Creative comment (-1, Redundant)

pwnies (1034518) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735543)

Ha ha! First post! Like hell it was, this is my first post!

Makes sense of a sort (1)

UncleWilly (1128141) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735547)

No one said natural selection was kind.

Re:Makes sense of a sort (5, Insightful)

thms (1339227) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735899)

Yes, evolution does not care about the individual, just the result. I dare say all personality disorders - hell, all diseases of young age! - that have a genetic cause and have a prevalence of more than >1% increase the overall fitness of the species either directly or because the poor suckers that get the two copies of it don't outweigh the advantage for the others.

I even expect the cancer rate to be fine tuned between making a species too static in an ever changing world and killing too many individuals. Some species, IIRC crocodiles, practically never get cancer, so it probably is not a limitation of the eukaryotic cell.
Another example is of course homosexuality, understanding went from "It can't be natural - it is the end of the line for the individual's genes!", to finding more and more animal species enjoying it to actually being able to explain that it (male h.) benefits the female line. Dawkin's The Selfish Gene comes to mind again.

Crazy Chef Sato (4, Interesting)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735549)

This was on the menu of my favorite Restaurant throughout the 1990s in Beaverton, OR (It died when Tektronix scaled back):

Eight out of ten people are normal
One maybe genius,
One maybe crazy,
I hesitate to call myself genius,
That leaves only one choice

Easily the most creative Japanese/American fusion chef I've ever met.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

Itninja (937614) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735583)

Given the name "Marxist Hacker" I would concur with your conclusions.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735707)

I miss his Chicken Cheese Katsu, both dinner and lunch versions. When I was contracting at Tek I'd go to his restaurant every day, and I was lucky enough to try everything on his menu.

I wish I had his knife skills- it's hard to cut a pocket in a boneless chicken breast.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

linzeal (197905) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736071)

You need a good sharp knife it sounds like. Gerber makes some cutlery that is pretty decent for the price but if you want to get something really nice you might need to look to Japan/S Korea/Germany.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736269)

It would also help if I didn't have disgraphia as one of my Asperger's symptoms (I'm as likely to slice my palm off as to get that recipe right!).

Still, it should be simple enough for anybody with the knife skills, it's only a chicken breast stuffed with American Processed cheese, coated in panko and deep fried until the cheese vaporizes- served with Tonkatsu sauce.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735637)

Too bad about his grammar.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735719)

His grammar was fitting for a man whose first language had a different grammar structure entirely. I suspect strongly that the poem was his own translation.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735959)

I was only referring to 'maybe' (which should be 'may be'), but given how often native speakers make the mistake, I can see where it would be easy to make.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736253)

I always thought that was weird to- until I realized he really *meant* maybe (as in, synonym of possibly), as opposed to "may be" (as in synonym of "might be").

His wife was his waitress- she was a bit of an odd duck by American standards as well. Your best chance of getting the order right was to use the menu and point at what you wanted- her thick accent combined with her use of Engrish would almost certainly mess it up.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (2, Insightful)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735663)

And here's today's fortune-cookie quote:

The superior man understands what is right; the inferior man understands what will sell. -- Confucius

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735739)

I like that- it explains quite succinctly the main problem I've seen with the free market (that which is good, does not sell; that which is utter crap in a nice package, you'll earn millions off of).

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

Bottlemaster (449635) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736653)

So your problem with the free market is that you can't take your totally subjective tastes and standards and force them down other people's throats?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a consumer minority too, and it does suck. But it's not a problem specific to markets. If a planning authority dictated that resources be allocated to create quality products to fulfill our uncommon demands, there wouldn't be enough well-packaged utter crap to go around for everyone else.

Someone has to lose; economic systems only decide who.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

thearkitex (1420577) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736063)

In bed...?

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735723)

Actually I would say that creativity and insanity really ARE the same thing, just the people we call crazy got a little... TOO creative and with things like their interpretation of gravity and who (or what) they think would be a good conversationalist.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (2, Insightful)

blincoln (592401) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736225)

Maybe. But having met people who really did have schizophrenia, I'm a little dubious of this theory (which I've heard before). To use a computer analogy, my perception of their experience was not just that their brains started producing/storing inaccurate data, but that the program code was also not working as intended. One of the most striking examples was their speech patterns, where in certain cases they would say things that had the timbre and cadence of normal English speech, but if you actually paid attention it didn't make any sense - it was just nonsensical syllables strung together in a pattern that superficially sounded like English.
If random corruption of "data" and "program code" in the brain is the root of creativity, then it seems to me that creativity is a very inefficient, brute-force method, which is only practical in people without schizophrenia because our brains have the processing power to discard (at some subconscious layer) the huge number of results that aren't worth pursuing. That's sort of along the lines of random mutation and natural selection, but the timescales are vastly different, so I at least hope that there is something more efficient at work in our brains.

You are wrong and i can prove it (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28736483)

Have you not witnessed the volume of creative yet at times contradicting posts all from me?

Creatively Schizoid Anonymous Coward

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (2, Insightful)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 5 years ago | (#28737095)

If random corruption of "data" and "program code" in the brain is the root of creativity, then it seems to me that creativity is a very inefficient, brute-force method, which is only practical in people without schizophrenia because our brains have the processing power to discard (at some subconscious layer) the huge number of results that aren't worth pursuing.

I think that creativity is the ability to make associations/connections in unusual or unexpected ways. This can be good - applying, say, buddhist philosophy to electrical engineering has given us such advances as Fuzzy Logic, but when one's brain can only make inchoate connections, madness is the result.

I've always thought creativity, genius, and madness were closely related, and I'm by no means the only one. But this study may be evidence for it. Or it may not - psych studies are notorious for being filled with meaningless bullshit dressed up in a gown of hard statistics.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (3, Interesting)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736227)

That reminds me of a slightly lower functioning autistic (I have Asperger's and I'm into the neurodiversity movement) on youtube as of late- who insists that her behavior MUST be interpreted as communication because she's "communicating" with her environment (water, wind, sunlight, etc). Apparently nobody ever taught her that communication had to be two way with another sentient mind....

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736813)

You realise that either of those two alone pretty much instantly concerns me. Especially since I'm someone who actually has those "diversities" FOR REAL, as in diagnosed in a clinical setting with a neurological (rather than psychological) set of disorders that make my life difficult. I'm not neurodiverse anymore than I'm disabled, I just dont function properly.

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (5, Interesting)

dov_0 (1438253) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735815)

I just tell my friends that I'm half crazy. Whether that means all crazy half the time, or half crazy all the time I leave for them to decide.

Went through a period of psychosis in my late teens, but stayed off the anti-psychotics. Took quite a while, but got back on track without the pseudo-science quackery of psychiatry. Now I run my own business and live a pretty balanced life as a respected member of my family and the community.

Interestingly enough, the more 'artistic' (ie music) stuff I do, the more sorta crazy I get, the more I keep the artistic side in check and balanced with other things, the more 'sane' I am. Never really thought about it like that before though...

Re:Crazy Chef Sato (2, Interesting)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 5 years ago | (#28737025)

Wow, respect! I know how incredibly hard it is to get back on track! You have my full respect! And from the notion of "quackery", I know that you really know what psychatry is. ^^
I hope they soon are able to base psychology on a proper neurologic foundation, and can then throw away what we call psychatry, and many of thosp pseudo-therapies of psychology, and actually cure people, instead of just muting their brain functionaliy or talking and talking without results.

About the music: If you think your stuff is crazy, you clearly do not know Aphex Twin. check out the videos to "Windowlicker" and "Come to daddy", then the teaser video "Rubber Johnny" and the track "Omgyjya Switch 7" from the album "Druqs". Then look at this picture: http://navid.radiantempire.com/pub/pix/aphex_twin.jpg [radiantempire.com]

And he is called one of the greatest geniuses of electronic music!

Then think about stuff like Marilyn Manson or Eisregen (German gothic psycho "band").

All in all, I think you're good, no matter what music you do. :D

Ha!!! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735569)

"Moreover, a single DNA letter mutation that affects how much of the neuregulin 1 protein is made in the brain has been linked to psychosis, poor memory and sensitivity to criticism. About 50 per cent of healthy Europeans have one copy of this mutation, while 15 per cent possess two copies."

This explains perfectly the past 250 years of European history.

I don't know (5, Funny)

SilverHatHacker (1381259) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735571)

I'm not very creative.
The voices have much better ideas than me.

So they are saying... (3, Insightful)

otopico (32364) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735577)

Smart people can tell the voices in their head are their own thoughts, while the less intelligent think they are hearing disembodied voices, not their own?

Re:So they are saying... (1)

blackraven14250 (902843) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735639)

I think it also goes one further, saying that the smart ones will interpret them as voices, and use their ideas to do something creative, i.e. write a book. The less intelligent will take it as fact, and go crazy living with "implants in their skulls" and "people watching them all the time", meanwhile not doing something creative, because honestly, if you're an unwilling recipient of an alien implant, you've got much bigger things to worry about than writing a book.

Re:So they are saying... (1)

dov_0 (1438253) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735849)

Smart people can tell the voices in their head are their own thoughts, while the less intelligent think they are hearing disembodied voices, not their own?

I think that even if you hear voices, if you can recognise that they are not actually 'real' you are sane. Once you lose that distinction, you are psychotic. Nothing at all to do with intelligence as psychosis on average seems to occur more in those with higher IQ's.

Re:So they are saying... (3, Insightful)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736137)

I think I've known more phychotic people than sane ones. An easy place to spot it is to look at people with their pets. The vast majority of them have anthropomorphized them to the point that they have lost the distinction between human and dog (or cat).

Re:So they are saying... (4, Insightful)

Strange Ranger (454494) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736915)

Truly spoken like someone who shouldn't own pets.

Answer the following:

Which one produces the more fulfilling relationship, the person who "buys a dog and owns it" or the person who "adopts a dog and cares for him"?

Who has a more loving happily-trained pet? The person who treats their dog or cat like one of the family, or the person who treats their pet like something separate from their family?

We haven't lost the distinction. We've accepted the best metaphor for a mutually fulfilling relationship. My dog thinks I'm the leader of his pack. I'm happy thinking of my dog as my 3rd child, the one with all the fur. We both get to act naturally for the most part while those roles mesh perfectly. We both benefit.

If you don't understand that then please please do NOT become a pet owner. Your pet will feel lousy, act out, mope, resent you, and be a "bad pet".
In reality there are no bad pets, just bad owners.**


**Being a good owner starts with the decision of IF and then WHAT EXACTLY to buy. If for instance you buy a pet based solely on appearances, you're most likely to end up with a great looking pet that does not fit with your lifestyle at all. You're screwed before you even get it home. *Adopt* a pet that can become a valued member of your family, or else stay away please. Or maybe a goldfish or hermit crab would be your best choice.

Re:So they are saying... (1)

DriedClexler (814907) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735941)

Surprisingly, that's almost exactly how the psychologist Julian Jaynes explained [wikipedia.org] the origin of consciousness: people went from hearing voices, to identifying with that voice enough for it to be their "consciousness". He also believed that modern schizophrenia is a relapse to that earlier, non-conscious, "bicameral" state.

Re:So they are saying... (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735971)

I don't think John Forbes Nash is stupid. Nor Theodore Kaczynski, as a more dangerous example. There might be a link between schizophrenia and intelligence, but it's almost certainly not simple and causal. Perhaps the ability to distinguish between crazy-thoughts and intelligent-thoughts can be considered a special kind of intelligence, and the ability to entertain crazy-thoughts without taking them too seriously is what's needed for creative genius. Many exceptionally uncreative high-IQ people seem to lack this ability as well, and will hold on to the most ridiculous notions just because it's theirs, but they're hardly crazy.

Re:So they are saying... (1)

mevets (322601) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736937)

that little voice inside my head that keeps asking 'is there room for one more' is really saying 'you are stupid'? I took a vote on this and 3/4s of me think its the shrinks that are stupid; the other 3/8s are demanding a recount.

i've always suspected as much. (3, Interesting)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735581)

My sister is diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia, started with a lower iq due to learning disabilities. I'm pretty creative and intelligent. I always thought there was a link between the two. Still, its only partially genetic. It needs a stress trigger as well. There are identical twins, with one developing the disorder and the other not. The odds of one with the syndrome passing it to a direct descendant are also pretty low ~ 1% chance.

Re:i've always suspected as much. (1)

UncleTogie (1004853) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735733)

...odds of one with the syndrome passing it to a direct descendant are also pretty low ~ 1% chance.

I dunno, it always seemed that crazy ran in families.... mine for example...

Re:i've always suspected as much. (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735843)

While I understand that you're probably joking, there is crazy and then there is paranoid schizophrenia. Its like the difference between a corrupted jpeg, and a file of random data. One's broken, the other isn't even that.

Re:i've always suspected as much. (1)

orngjce223 (1505655) | more than 5 years ago | (#28737121)

Lemme try a car analogy. It's the difference between a Ford with a bent bumper, and an Apollo capsule replica "car" (actually, the owner uses it as a trash can) with two and a half wheels. One's broken, the other isn't even that.

I suspect this is just one such link (1)

Alan R Light (1277886) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735779)

. . . and many of us have suspected that there are more such links between conditions which may be pathological at one extreme, and extremely beneficial at another extreme. The schizophrenia versus creativity duality is one (and long known - we have all heard that "there is a fine line between genius and insanity"), and the whole area surrounding Asperger's Syndrome is likely another.

Not sure if I agree... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735587)

I have a friend who was diagnosed as schizophrenic. She might also be one of the smartest people I'll ever know, and also extremely creative. She has the high IQ along with the high creativity AND the hallucinations.

correlationisnotcausation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735595)

correlationisnotcausation tag, please.

Geniuses Don't Hallucinate? (3, Informative)

flaming error (1041742) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735599)

They hypothesize that people with this gene with high IQs are creative, while those with lower IQs are simply prone to the hallucinations

Why do they hypothesize that? There are plenty of geniuses with mental health issues. Take John Nash [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Geniuses Don't Hallucinate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735669)

I guess they didn't get to see A Beautiful Mind.

Re:Geniuses Don't Hallucinate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735787)

good. as a mathematician, i have to say that every single movie about math sucks. math is boring to non-mathematicians, so movies aren't about math, they're about crazy people, because crazy people are i suppose more interesting than math? ...anyway if you want to learn math you can go to like lectures and stuff. the movie format may be better at talking about crazy people.

Re:Geniuses Don't Hallucinate? (1)

Starlon (1492461) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736087)

I'm diagnosed with schizoeffective disorder. My symptoms grew increasingly the more I studied music, particularly Aural Skills. I never finished college, leaving with just over 100 hours behind me. My psychiatrist never discussed this with me. I know that I've lost interest in music since I started the anti-psychotic. I have a $3k classical guitar I haven't played seriously in over 2 years. With my bad memory, I've all but forgotten the memorized repertoire.

Furthermore, this article describes me with great accuracy. I have a psychotic disorder, poor memory, and I don't take criticism that well without putting some deep thought into it first -- for example I do better at online discussions rather than live discussions. One reason is I have horrendous verbal skills.

Re:Geniuses Don't Hallucinate? (1)

linzeal (197905) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736211)

I would say that depending on the graduate program there are far more people with severe mental issues than in any undergrad program. In fact some disciplines seem to have more than their fair share of a specific disease/disorder. CS of course has their share of aspergers. For example, I know 3 archaeologists/physical anthropologists that all have severe devastating OCD to the point that when the 2 who are still in college know that when they have to work together their systems of organizing/ritual must come together in a strange synchronization/dance and uneasy trust to work. One will pick up every single artifact and hold it over their head to examine it when the pass by it in a store room, the other one is into lists that span multiple comp books like a codex to a secret library. Together they have published 2-3 papers and I would say (IAMNAAOPA) above par for the journals they publish in.

Re:Geniuses Don't Hallucinate? (1)

kamakiri (944887) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736375)

They don't say geniuses don't hallucinate, just that people with lower IQs don't experience any positive insights because they don't have the advantage of an elevated perspective.

so wait ... (1)

Quirkz (1206400) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735605)

If someone is smart and really creative, there's a decent chance their IQ is keeping them from becoming schizophrenic? There's a decent chance my mom, my brother and I all fall into that category, and that's both a little weird to imagine and a little spooky.

Re:so wait ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735759)

'tis a razor's edge that the brilliant walk, betwixt genius and madness. All one has to do is look at the brilliant (Tesla, Einstein, John Nash...) and see that for the truth of it. "Spooky" doesn't even begin to describe it. All this does is prove that there's a medical reason for it all.

Re:so wait ... (2, Interesting)

NotQuiteReal (608241) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735807)

It makes perfect sense.

If you are smart enough to know when you have "weird thoughts", you can shrug your shoulders and go on with life, perhaps even putting those "creative notions" to some practical or artistic use.

If you are not too bright, you might believe all manner of crazy shit your mind comes up with and act on it. The worst cases might start a religion or live with the pigeons.

That explains it... (-1)

nebaz (453974) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735623)

I'm creative because I'm schizophrenic...
No I'm not.
Yes I am.
No I'm not.
Yes I am.
No I'm not.
Yes I am.

More seriously though, my Japanese teacher said that there was a guy who learned Japanese very fluently without conversing with other people by creating a second personality to converse with. With my luck, I would just have two people in my head speaking poor Japanese.

FAIL (2, Informative)

fuzzylollipop (851039) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735985)

schizophrenic != multiple personalities

Re:That explains it... (1)

fastest fascist (1086001) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736099)

I think a lot of people have conversations with imaginary personalities in their heads. I know I tend to spontaneously test out ideas that way, and I'm not the only one I know who does that. What language the conversation happens to be in depends mostly on what language I've been using recently. It is handy in terms of learning languages, of course, since you quickly run into things you want to say and don't know how to, so you find out.

Re:That explains it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28736703)

I have a psychotic disorder. My symptoms include in part hearing voices. For the longest I thought they were natural. Right before I snapped back to reality I believed I could read peoples' minds, and I thought that celestial beings were having conversations that I could overhear. These voices became so incessant that I developed a case of agoraphobia which even though I'm on medication and it prevents the voices, I still become very uncomfortable in public places and often _have_ to get back to the comfort of isolation. These voices killed my last two years of college. They were definitely a problem.

hi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735627)

thanx for information

http://www.husus.net

Scientists are NOT crazy (1)

jjoelc (1589361) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735679)

this study proves it! See... only stupid people are prone to suffer from schizophrenia. Smart guys like us don't have anything to worry about says the smug scientist... It's the academic version of NIMBY

Re:Scientists are NOT crazy (1)

fastest fascist (1086001) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736115)

You jest, but worth pointing out anyway that AFAIK it's generally been thought high intelligence is a risk factor for schizophrenia.

All the more reason... (1)

Starlon (1492461) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735683)

All the more reason to eschew eugenics.

Re:All the more reason... (1)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736593)

If you value creativity. Many don't.

Creative classes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735685)

So thats why copyright is in such a absurd and insane state. We let the loonies run the show on it. I mean getting royalties when you're dead for something you created sounds pretty crazy to me. And tell me about that forever and 1 day theory crazy man. (Also explains mac sales)

Crap soup (3, Insightful)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735695)

IQ, schizophrenia, creativity, all vague concepts linked together with "hard numbers" of primitive statistics.

Interesting information, to be sure, but let's not push that and turn it into another psychobabble.

Schizo = Success? (1)

tunapez (1161697) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735703)

Look at what it takes to get ahead in the Corporate World: A huge ego, a shitload of apathy and the never-wavering pursuit of unlimited growth margins(at any cost). Apply that criteria to politics and you can see what a brave new world it really is.

Re:Schizo = Success? (3, Insightful)

not_surt (1293182) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735991)

I seems to me that you are confusing schizophrenia with psychopathy.

Paranoid about paranoia (1)

jeffliott (1558799) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735729)

Maybe I should cease all that "outside the box" thinking my associates always compliment me on, in the interest of sanity. /wink

I am not as creative... (1)

Phizzle (1109923) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735753)

...As I think I am!

neuregulin mutation count (3, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735763)

0 copies:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506t.pdf?portlet=3 [irs.gov]

Signature and date. Form 4506-T must be
signed and dated by the taxpayer listed on
line 1a or 2a. If you completed line 5
requesting the information be sent to a
third party, the IRS must receive Form
4506-T within 60 days of the date signed
by the taxpayer or it will be rejected.
Individuals. Transcripts of jointly filed
tax returns may be furnished to either
spouse. Only one signature is required.
Sign Form 4506-T exactly as your name
appeared on the original return. If you
changed your name, also sign your current
name.
Corporations. Generally, Form 4506-T
can be signed by: (1) an officer having
legal authority to bind the corporation, (2)
any person designated by the board of
directors or other governing body, or (3)
any officer or employee on written request
by any principal officer and attested

1 copy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/opinion/15dowd.html [nytimes.com]

But the barbed adjectives didn't match the muted performance on display before the Judiciary Committee. Like the president who picked her, Sotomayor has been a model of professorial rationality. Besides, it's delicious watching Republicans go after Democrats for being too emotional and irrational given the G.O.P. shame spiral.

W. and Dick Cheney made all their bad decisions about Iraq, W.M.D.'s, domestic surveillance, torture, rendition and secret hit squads from the gut, based on false intuitions, fear, paranoia and revenge.

Sarah Palin is the definition of irrational, a volatile and scattered country-music queen without the music. Her Republican fans defend her lack of application and intellect, happy to settle for her emotional electricity.

Senator Graham said Sotomayor would be confirmed unless she had "a meltdown" -- a word applied mostly to women and toddlers until Mark Sanford proudly took ownership of it when he was judged about the wisdom of his Latina woman.

2 copies:

http://pdfoxy.com/8986-excerpt-from-harry-potter-and-the-sorcerers-stone-pdf.html [pdfoxy.com]

"Look--" he murmured, holding out his arm to stop Malfoy. Something bright white was gleaming on the ground. They inched closer. It was the unicorn all right, and it was dead. Harry had never seen anything so beautiful and sad. Its long, slender legs were stuck out at odd angles where it had fallen and its mane was spread pearly-white on the dark leaves. Harry had taken one step toward it when a slithering sound made him freeze where he stood. A bush on the edge of the clearing quivered. . . . Then, out of the shadows, a hooded figure came crawling across the ground like some stalking beast. Harry, Malfoy, and Fang stood transfixed. The cloaked figure reached the unicorn, lowered its head over the wound in the animal's side, and began to drink its blood. "AAAAAAAAAAARGH!" Malfoy let out a terrible scream and bolted--so did Fang. The hooded figure raised its head and looked right at Harry--unicorn blood was dribbling down its front. It got to its feet and came swiftly toward Harry--he couldn't move for fear.

.
.
.

256 copies:

http://timecube.com/ [timecube.com]

Americans are dumb, educated ONE
stupid and they worship ONEism Evil.
It is not immoral to kill believers, for the stupid bastards EVOLVE from son
or daughter who precedes them. NOT one damn human adult has ever been
created - for ONLY babies are CREATED - and every adult has within them the LIFE given by children who DIE to give-up their lives to their parent
image - so their mom or Dad can live. Adults are EVIL to deny they evolved from children - and claim their adult EGO image is a god likeness. Such damn evil AMERICANS should have their tongue cut out for the heinous hoax they are perpetrating upon their own children. I know now why the Jews
deserved their holocaust - worshipping their own adult EGO image as a damn god whil ignoring and betraying they very children who sacrifice their LIFE
so their Moms and Dads could Live. There is nothing godly about stupid
and evil adults who betray their own children who gave them Life. I AM
WISER THAN ANY DAMN MAN OR GOD WHO EVER EXISTED. IF THE
HALF AND HALF CO-CREATED
JESUS RETURNS TO EARTH, I WILL PERSONALLY KILL THE BASTARD MYSELF. ALL CREATION OCCURS
BETWEEN AND AS OPPOSITES. YOU DUMB-ASS, EARTH, THE UNIVERSE
AND EVERY LIVING THING IN IT
EXISTS BETWEEN A TOP AND BOTTOM, BETWEEN A FRONT AND BACK, BETWEEN OPPOSITE SIDES,
AND INSIDE AND OUTSIDE. A LL YOU DUMB EVIL BASTARDS EARN
A HOLOCAUST ANF IT IS NIGH UPON YOU. HIRED SICK TEACHERS
ARE PAID TO TEACH YOU EVIL TO
ENSLAVE YOU STUPID AND YOU
NOW POSSESS AN IDIOT CYCLOPIC
MENTALITY. YOU LACK THE BRAINS TO KNOW THAT 4 SIMULTANEOUS DAYS ROTATE IN AN IMAGINARY CUBED EARTH.
KEEP IGNORING ME AQND YOU WILL PAY HELL FOR CLAIMING
YOUR ADULT IMAGE AS A DAMN GOD WHILE YOU BETRAY YOUR
PRIOR SONS AND DAUGHTERS WHO SACRIFICED THEIR LIFE SO YOU COULD LIVE AN EVIL LIE.
BIBLE GOD NEV$ER CREATED AV SINGLE DAY - NOT A SINGLE ROTATION - LEFT THE EARTH STANDING STILL. I CREATED 4
DAYS IN ON EARTH ROTATION.
EVERY HUMAN DESERVES DEATH FOR IGNORING SUCH A SUPERNATURAL TRANSCENDENTAL PRINCIPLE.
GREENWICH MEAN TIME IS WRONG AND EVIL, SO IS 3 DIMENSIONAL MATH. YOU CAN"T KILL ME, FOR I AM 82 + CANCER.
CHILDREN - STOP THE EVIL ADULTS BEFORE THEY DESTROY YOUR LIFE ON EARTH.

Re:neuregulin mutation count (1)

planetoid (719535) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736091)

How did you bypass Slashdot's faggoty "too many uppercase characters" filter?

its proportional (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736233)

YOU CAN HAVE A SECTION OF ALL CAPS if it is balanced against a larger section that is normal case

thought that was known for a long time (1)

sugarmotor (621907) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735773)

I thought it was known for a long time that there is a link between creativity and schizophrenia. Seems perfectly natural to me.

Stephan

Re:thought that was known for a long time (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736215)

Its like fighter jets which are designed to be unstable. That enables them to do amazing manoeuvres fast but you have to bail out if the flight control system fails.

Re:thought that was known for a long time (1)

sugarmotor (621907) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736417)

Exactly.
Stephan

Re:thought that was known for a long time (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736553)

It's a principle for fighters that goes back long before the jet age. Perhaps the two most famous fighter planes of World War I are the Sopwith Camel and the Fokker Dr. 1 triplane. They shared a common point: they both had rotary engines, which here doesn't mean one of those Mazda things that go "mmmmmm" but rather a radial piston engine in which the crankshaft was bolted to the airframe and the propellor was attached to the engine casing. The crankshaft stayed still while the entire engine block spun. This generated enormous amounts of torque, and both airplanes had a vicious tendency to snap to the right, and both airplanes had a reputation for killing incautious pilots who flew them. But in the hands of an expert pilot, the planes could excute extremely sharp turns to the right which were of great advantage in dogfights.

John Forbes Nash, Jr.? (1)

djKing (1970) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735803)

What about John Forbes Nash Jr. [wikipedia.org] ? [He's the genius they based the movie A Beautiful Mind on.

I think they made that story up (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735859)

They made that story up to fool us. Don't you see? They want us to link Schizophrenia to creativity because they know that it will cause us to support them. And what's wrong with that? It's because the they're not real people. Real people don't behave that way. What you call "schizophrenia" is really the result of behavioral differences among the class of people who we've come to differentiate as the Nordic type, as opposed to greys, hairies and the other classes. They can live nominally among us as they appear generall to be caucasian. Some counter that they can't be the Nordics, and this isn't entirely untrue because they are just as often offspring between Nordics and humans. Also, time dilation effects from the trasnport mechanisms used to transport them back and forth from Earth to their home worlds cause them to be smaller. Thus, they really are the Nordics and would be tall, blonde and attractive to you; but appear differently due to an effect akin to Doppler shift in their frame of reference. So when you see one of these Nordics on the street you just think they're crazy, but those are actually the social conventions in their culture and I have to go becaue I've already said too much. Just don't believe them becauese if you believe them then things can happen like when I started believing them and then you will believe them too and it will all happen. Now do you see? It's already happening and it's happening because it's too late and it's possibly even later than you think because there is a frame of reference between these Nordic types and the Grays and what you call schizophrenics.

Obligatory link... (1)

Misch (158807) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735877)

Obligatory link...

"Screwed Up People Make Great Art [youtube.com] " by Groovelily [groovelily.com]

Well, it's obligatory for me at least.

Creativity Potentially Linked To Schizophrenia (1)

alxkit (941262) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735883)

again?

It all makes sense now... (1)

The Yuckinator (898499) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735895)

No wonder my designers are crazy!

"Divine" Inspiration (1)

teopatl (162615) | more than 5 years ago | (#28735897)

So I wonder if this a connection, however tenuous, between Inspiration--that is, the phenomenon by which creativity manifests, e.g. hearing that improvised lick, seeing that unpainted painting, the "pop" of a boundary pushing idea--and hearing voices or hallucinating? "God" is an alteration of reality via an alteration of perception, which is itself a result of genetic mutation.

How's that for logical leaps.

One sign of psychosis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28735933)

Some psychiatrists look for one troubling sign that their patient may be experiencing psychosis -- a distrust for government. It certainly would be more ethical to check for a gene huh? Too bad people misuse the term "correlation does not mean causation" to the point of absurdity. It seems to boil down to one issue: I don't agree with your data, so it's not causation. As long as it keeps the research open and honest, I don't think it's a bad thing, but some people take it a little too far I'm afraid.

This is news (1)

dave562 (969951) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736003)

Creative/artistic type people have active imaginations?! Holy News Flash Batman! I can't wait for the story about how librarians have a gene that has been tied to OCD.

Not true in my case (3, Interesting)

grumpygrodyguy (603716) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736035)

Well,

1) I have schizophrenia (paranoid delusional, no visual or auditory hallucinations).
2) I am not creative, at all...in any artistic sense. Except maybe with words, poetry, scrabble.
3) I have an extremely vivid and active imagination.
4) My nervous system is very sensitive, I have to take meds to 'turn them down' so I'm relaxed.
5) I have an IQ of 133 and an interest in math and science; degrees in physics and computer science.

Re:Not true in my case (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28736167)

paranoid delusional,

We know...

Re:Not true in my case (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28736429)

words count.

Re:Not true in my case (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28736933)

There is not much difference between having an active imagination and being creative.

Well... actually, as a person who is paid to be creative, I can tell you what that small difference is.

It is that you put the ideas from your imagination into a physical form that other people can understand.

That's all there is to it. And it is a lot of work and organisation. Most people just don't think they are creative when really they just don't want to do all the boring bits involved.

How to sort through your imagination for the bits people will like, or even buy, is another topic.

Lucky (0)

BasicTek (1600287) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736155)

People with Schizophrenia are lucky... *They don't need to watch movies they can create their own *When reality sucks they can participate with other realities *They get prescribed good drugs :) .02

Anecdotally, bipolar seems more important (4, Insightful)

Beryllium Sphere(tm) (193358) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736193)

History and my personal experience are full of manic-depressive artists. No substitute for statistics, of course.

Maybe the connection is just that society drives creative people crazy.

to split hairs a bit (1)

drougie (36782) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736303)

I don't know much about genes but I am rather familiar with different forms of psychosis experienced by positive-type shizophrenics, schizoaffectives and type one manic depressives alike and I can say with some authority that there is indeed a correlation between one's creativity and one's proximity to psychosis. Problem is, the super-psychotics among us are just too messed up to make it through the day (the affliction afflicting the patients in the most hospital beds is schizophrenia) that they are unable to unleash their creativity in contained forms that can be digested, documented and enjoyed by the rest of the world. You don't hear too many names you'd recognize except for the Pink Floyd drummer on the lists of famous people with schizophrenia.

But you do with manic depression [mental-health-today.com] probably because the treatment success rate, that is the chance you've got of getting a manic depressive patient to function in society, is in the nineties versus 40% [citation needed] for schizophrenia. Manic depressives, type one bipolar to be specific, get to shoot up into the same forms of psychosis positive typed schizophrenics perpetually are locked into, write an opera or a poem or whatever, come down from mania (either naturally or with drugs) and then try to market their psychotic product to whoever's interested. Or bipolar twos who ride just below the manic border, known as hypomania (think cocaine high), and can kind of do both at the same time (with the right handlers) like ODB and DMX and Axl Rose.

As for negative typed schizophrenics, catatonics, don't expect to get much Hemingway and Liszt out of them -- or their kids /if/ there is any specific heredity between the subtypes of schizophrenia. I don't know that part. But I will tell you this, more love should be shown to the crazies' diseases whose work you appreciate and enjoy regularly, work you admire and see in museums and have no idea that the artist behind it wasn't around before asylums turned into psychiatric hospitals and the drug lithium was born and applied to treating psychosis and soon after Thorazine and all the rest and they had a disaster of a life which in many cases ended in suicide. [stason.org] :(

Medicine has progressed much since those two drugs which might be a shame if you think that the medicines will squelch more creative genius from being contributed to the world's vault of precious art into the future.

Potential cure for schizophrenia? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28736549)

Pharmaceutical companies, in an effort to find a cure for schizophrenia, stifle creativity

Old News? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28736577)

My information may be out of date - I haven't engaged in any serious study of the brain in about ten years, but it was my understanding that the connection between creativity and (in some cases) schizophrenia was old news.

My understanding was that the levels of dopamine and other endorphins in the prefrontal cortex are directly related to things like problem-solving abilities and memory recall (as well as the perceived psychological rewards for any given action), but imbalances in those chemical levels (or possibly in the brain's ability to properly metabolize those chemicals) causes depression (levels too low), schizophrenia (too high) and bi-polar disorder (swings between too-low and too-high amounts).

I seem to also recall articles more recently discussing genetic connections between schizophrenia and addictive behavior, with the connection being imbalances in endorphin levels in the pre-frontal cortex, and (again, this is all from ancient memory here) being that some pleasurable (and thus addictive) activities stimulate production of endorphins, the idea is that people with endorphin imbalances are essentially self-medicating themselves to compenstate for those imbalances by stimulating the production of endorphins.

You know, if my memory on all of this is even vaguely correct, a lot of things make sense - low endorphin levels = depression = diminished problem solving / creativity - which can lead to engaging in addictive behavior (like alcoholism or overeating) to raise endorphin levels. Medication for bi-polar / depression / schizophrenia 'fixes' the brains endorphin production or metabolism at certain levels, which would explain the lack of creativity some people on those medications experience. Too high endorphin levels = greater problem-solving = potentially greater creativity - but too high can lead to schizophrenia and psychosis. If all of this is even remotely correct, this gene TFA references is one connected to the endorphin production or metabolism.

But again, I might be waaaaaay off-mark here. I might be remembering things very wrong, or science may have marched on considerably in the past decade. Can anyone more familiar with neurochemistry set me straight?

Old news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28736741)

They hypothesize that people with this gene with high IQs are creative, while those with lower IQs are simply prone to the hallucinations that characterize the disease.

I can't point to a source, but I've heard this hypothesis like 4 years ago. Back then it was a combo of IQ and latent inhibition, which made sense; the less you are able to filter out sensory 'noise' the more mental capacity you need to process the information.

Schizophrenia is older than the word schizophrenia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28736755)

Most modern researchers base what they know about Schizophrenia on theories. They base theory, upon theory, upon theory. It's no wonder that they find lies, and deny that people recover.

Of the most bogus theories: one researcher that works for the NIMH, believed that Schizophrenics were meant be evolutionary dead-ends. He works with elderly people with Schizophrenia.

Dr. Ronald F. Levant is very well respected, and this article tells some of the story about how he was treated when he shared his understanding:
http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb00/schizophrenia.html

From that article:
"Early last year, when Ronald F. Levant, EdD, sought out colleagues to support an APA miniconvention on serious mental illness, he told a group of fellow psychologists how recovery from a major disorder such as schizophrenia was not only possible, it was happening regularly.

"Recovery from schizophrenia?" a colleague snorted. "Have you lost your mind, too?"

END QUOTE

Look to Dr. Loren Mosher, who gave video interviews, and shared his side of the story. He believed that people recover, and that the drug companies are misleading people.
source: http://www.oikos.org/mosher.htm

"This is not a group for me. At this point in history, in my view, psychiatry has been almost completely bought out by the drug companies. The APA could not continue without the pharmaceutical company support of meetings, symposia, workshops, journal advertising, grand rounds luncheons, unrestricted educational grants etc. etc. Psychiatrists have become the minions of drug company promotions. APA, of course, maintains that its independence and autonomy are not compromised in this enmeshed situation." -- Dr. Loren Mosher

Dr. Al Siebert has shared a lot of stories about recovery on his website. This is the most significant and clear story (to me) about how delusions are often the result of a positive intention:
http://www.successfulschizophrenia.org/articles/ndlisten.html

There are more and more people awakening to what may be a truth for many people assigned the schizophrenia label.

Robert Whitaker also has some interesting research, and writings on the subject of Schizophrenia.

Note: I am not affiliated with any of these sites, or people. I respect their views, and I found my own truth. I encourage others to find their own truth as well.

Ambiguous? (1)

dandart (1274360) | more than 5 years ago | (#28736961)

Goodness, first depression, now creativity linked to schizophrenia? What next? It's becoming like stress, you will soon be able to attribute it to anything.

Dead Wrong (1)

FiveDozenWhales (1360717) | more than 5 years ago | (#28737103)

I hate to make this claim without being able to cite my sources, but my access to research databases has been cut off since graduating...

But this flies against the past 20 years of research. Nearly all studies show a strong NEGATIVE correlation between nearly all types of mental illness and creativity (as measured using a variety of scales). Schizophrenia and depression are the two that leap to mind. I know there's this popular idea that the crazies are more creative (or vice versa), but it's simply not true...
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