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Hacker Group L0pht Making a Comeback

Soulskill posted about 5 years ago | from the getting-the-band-back-together dept.

Security 110

angry tapir writes "The news report begins with shots of a tense space shuttle launch. Engineers hunch over computer banks and techno music pounds in the background. There is a countdown, a lift-off, and then you see a young man in a black T-shirt and sunglasses, apparently reporting from 'space.' This is the Hacker News Network, and after a decade offline it is lifting off again, this time with a quirky brand of video reports about security. Hacker News Network is one of the side projects of the Boston-based hacker collective known as L0pht Heavy Industries. They're the guys who famously told the US Congress that they could take down the Internet in about 30 minutes, and who helped invent the way that security bugs are reported to computer companies."

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anonymous coward brings sexy back (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828117)

but only if you consider sucking my balls to be sexy. First Post!

Are they relevant? (4, Interesting)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | about 5 years ago | (#28828129)

Once upon a time these guys were the baddest of the badasses. But nowadays Russia, China, and North Korea have become real threats.

What can a group of guys in Boston do that could rival Russian hackers?

Re:Are they relevant? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828157)

What can a group of guys in Boston do that could rival Russian hackers?

tea party?

Re:Are they relevant? (5, Funny)

hedwards (940851) | about 5 years ago | (#28828505)

Tea bagging?

Re:Are they relevant? (1)

Macfox (50100) | about 5 years ago | (#28832849)

If I had mod points, you'd get them.

Re:Are they relevant? (1)

laejoh (648921) | about 5 years ago | (#28834647)

Pfff, they'd reply with a lemon party... Then what?

Re:Are they relevant? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828219)

Mate, Bostonians are what you get when you mix pirates and ninjas. Chuck Norris is scared of Boston. Last time they threw a Tea Party they instigated the overthrow of the largest empire in history! A few blokes from Boston are enough to wipe out the Third Reich, Mossad, Chuck Norris and the SBS all in an afternoon.

Regards,
      Phil

Re:Are they relevant? (4, Funny)

sharkey (16670) | about 5 years ago | (#28828679)

Baloney. Chuck Norris knows Boston's fatal weakness! [headinjurytheater.com]

Re:Are they relevant? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28830649)

Bostonians are pussies. They pee in their pants at the slightest hint of danger. They have small weenies and spend a major part of their lives jacking off.

Re:Are they relevant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28831887)

True and with less phat

Re:Are they relevant? (1)

pikine (771084) | about 5 years ago | (#28828497)

Consider that they were the black hats forefathers who inspired the hackers in Russian and China, I think their limit is not whether they can do it or not, but it's what they end up doing that matters.

North Korea? WTF??? (0)

sgt_doom (655561) | about 5 years ago | (#28828573)

W(here)TF did you come up with North Korea? Oh yeah, that memo passed you buy about the source of that last I-net run against gov sites originated in the United Kingdom? It was those scumball pols who claimed it originated in North Korea....you know, that SecDef Robert Gates, who used to boil cats when he was in his teens, and the guy with the father who also occupied the Secretary of Defense position. WTF ever happened to social mobility in the US of A, anyway?????

Re:Are they relevant? (1)

Profane MuthaFucka (574406) | about 5 years ago | (#28828621)

Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

I can't recall any Russians who were able to paralyze an entire city in fear with nothing but an amusing comic book character. It rivals something Chuck Norris could do.

Or maybe the Boston PD is a bunch of scared little pussies. Naaah, nobody would believe THAT.

Re:Are they relevant? (1)

theillien (984847) | about 5 years ago | (#28830117)

I love how people like to cite this as a means to insult Boston and its citizens. Because, ya know, *everyone* knows who the Mooninites are and should just assume that unidentifiable objects with their likenesses are all safe and fluffy. And god forbid the city from where flights of 9/11 took off be fucking paranoid of something like that happening again.

Re:Are they relevant? (1)

Profane MuthaFucka (574406) | about 5 years ago | (#28831429)

Wow, another dumbass from Boston who can't tell the difference between a cop and a citizen.

Just for you, I'll expand my criticism, which if you could read you would notice was directed towards the Boston PD, to the entire populus of the Boston metropolitan area.

Every person in Boston is a dumbass, afraid of the blinking lights.

If I'm going to get accused of generalizing about the entire city, I may as well make the generalization. If there's one thing I hate, it's being wrongly accused.

Re:Are they relevant? (1)

Profane MuthaFucka (574406) | about 5 years ago | (#28832589)

And just to rub it in...

http://www.liquidmatrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/screencap.png [liquidmatrix.org]

Apparently Boston can't tell if it's a computer virus or a tornado. It must be the same effect that causes them to believe that their women are good looking.

Re:Are they relevant? (1)

Fred_A (10934) | about 5 years ago | (#28834305)

http://www.liquidmatrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/screencap.png [liquidmatrix.org]

Apparently Boston can't tell if it's a computer virus or a tornado.

What if it's a virus that makes your computer bomb ?
(I don't think you can still get the Mac to display the bomb thingie though)

North Korea have become real threat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28830313)

Stop reading press releases will you.

Their the same caliber as the ones claiming genocide and WMD's to justify military intervention.

Its like some people are still living the cold war era.

13 main/root DNS servers to take down only (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28831973)

"What can a group of guys in Boston do that could rival Russian hackers?" - by BadAnalogyGuy (945258) on Sunday July 26, @01:27PM (#28828129)

There are only 13 root DNS servers out there, afaik, & this is the list of them:

----

E-NASA Moffet Field CA
F-ISC Woodside CA
M-WIDE Kei o
I-NORDU Stockholm
K-LINX/RIPE London
B-DISA-USC Marina delRey CA
L-DISA-USC Marina delRey CA
A-NSF-NSI Herndon VA
C-PSI Herndon VA
D-UMD College Park Maryland
G-DISA-Boeing Vienna VA
H-USArmy Aberdeen MD
J-NSF-NSI Herndon VA

----

AND?

They DO in essence, control a LARGE part of the internet itself (for url-to-ip address name resolutions, & troubles in the Domain Name System were exposed the past year or two now by Dan Kaminsky, that ARE exploitable for purposes such as L0pht stated, when they told the U.S. Gov't. they could effectively "take down the internet in under 30 minutes" etc. et al).

APK

P.S.=> That? That's JUST "for starters", in reqards to your question... apk

Re:13 main/root DNS servers to take down only (2, Informative)

Crysm (1410083) | about 5 years ago | (#28832839)

Yes, because no one has yet invented DNS caching.
...
Oh wait.


Yes, those servers are important, but they don't handle every single DNS lookup directly. They wouldn't be able to withstand that. Taking down those servers would only inconvenience people by temporarily preventing them from contacting domains that weren't in their DNS server's cache.

A more effective target would be to attack IXPs and prevent the traffic from flowing between Internet carriers. There are quite a lot of those, though, and it would be exceptionally difficult (bordering on impossible) to pull off.

Ah, so those a-holes stopped iTunes from working! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828133)

Here, here! And, just for kicks, take a look-see at this little vignette of 'customer service'...

It's a bit long-winded but I can't think of a better exemplar of what NOT to do to please the *gasp* paying customer:

There was this woman I knew. She was a child of the Sixties and a bit of a paradox. She had been a hippy and an Outlaw Biker bitch and she danced topless in gentlemen clubs in and around the Caribbean and Mexico. She was also my stepfather's daughter from a previous marriage. Nice, huh?

After my mother married her father, she was all set and ready to hate my guts because I dared to love her father (Her father was probably the most noble soul I've ever met). But after a weekend in the mountains, we were holding hands and nibbling each others ear. Well, for 25 years, we had a secret relationship because my mother hated her because of some twisted philosophy that my mother had picked up somewhere about there can only be one queen bee to every hive. My mother had already tried to savagely ruin the marriage of one of my brothers and had turned the other brother damn near into Norman Bates.

So my stepsister and I decided to wait. My mother was not well. She was a lifelong alcoholic. She had been in and out of the hospital numerous times. All we thought we had to do was wait. 25 years later, my stepsister woke up one morning and said, "fuck it." She swallowed an entire bottle of Tylenol and drank most of a bottle of red wine. She was in a hideous painful coma for eight weeks before she died.

*That* was the good news. Now for the worst part: my mother died in her sleep six months later.

I don't think there's anything after this life. Even if there is a God, I don't think God could possibly be that cruel. But if I could interview my stepsister, I would ask her just the one obvious question: what the holy fucking hell were you thinking trying to screw your stepbrother at every possible moment? What does all of this have to do with customer service (or lack thereof)? Well, nothing, frankly, but if you read this far - and I charged a subscription fee to browse Slashdot - wouldn't you be pretty red-faced pissed right about now? I know *I* would.

nerd turd (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828167)

Goatse rules
Linux fails
We all install Windows 8 Ultimate edition on our Intel Core i9 netbooks.

HACK THE PLANET!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828251)

Quick, someone find ZeroCool and AcidBurn!

Re:HACK THE PLANET!!! (1)

killthepoor187 (1600283) | about 5 years ago | (#28828319)

Count Zero, IMO

Re:HACK THE PLANET!!! (1)

uberushaximus (1025976) | about 5 years ago | (#28828463)

They're out in the pool, on the roof.

Re:HACK THE PLANET!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28830673)

Pool's closed. Due to AIDS.

Re:HACK THE PLANET!!! (1)

Octogonal Raven (1516671) | about 5 years ago | (#28828565)

Don't forget Lord Nikon and Cereal Killer.

Sung to the theme, "Welcome back Kotter" (1)

slicenglide (735363) | about 5 years ago | (#28828265)

Welcome back... welcome back... Wel-come BAAAACK!" -Cha!

Hmmm... (4, Insightful)

Colourspace (563895) | about 5 years ago | (#28828281)

Assuming these guys are 'white hats', and they are not _necessarily_ the most able or l337 hax0rs out there, then why has someone not already attempted to take the internet down in 30 minutes already? For, say, 1 million dollars? I call hubris..

Re:Hmmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828309)

Probably because the valued cost of the downtime as measured by the courts would be in the trillions for all internet based companies out there, guaranteeing yourself a place in the hall of fame for dumbest hackers to ever cause an internet outage and executed.

Re:Hmmm... (2, Insightful)

Colourspace (563895) | about 5 years ago | (#28828359)

l0pht may well be intelligent enough to realise that very fact, which is very true. But it might not mean the same to a bunch of North Korean/Chinese/Russian hackers, who might not have anything to lose and want to cause maximum disruption. Hell, they might even think they are so good/out of jurisdiction of the relevent authorities they don't care about anything except maximum disruption. What's your point again?

Re:Hmmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828579)

The internet is global enough that just about every country's economy is tied in to it. There would be no where you are untouchable, if you were to do this.

Re:Hmmm... (1)

ImYourVirus (1443523) | about 5 years ago | (#28828607)

The Moon?

Re:Hmmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828693)

Rockets are cheap compared to what you'd have done, you'd need to stay mobile on the moon... without an extensive infrastructure (like what you would have just destroyed) that would be neigh to impossible.

Re:Hmmm... (3, Funny)

Eternauta3k (680157) | about 5 years ago | (#28828915)

that would be neigh to impossible.

And yet I can't see where the horses come in

Re:Hmmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28829087)

In my day, that was how we were going to get the moon. Get off my lawn!

Re:Hmmm... (3, Interesting)

tcr (39109) | about 5 years ago | (#28829437)

Heh.. the Russians might just be out for revenge.

Interesting article [techradar.com] about how the CIA took advantage of the fact that the USSR had given up on domestic computer systems development, and had taken to cloning IBM and Dec gear.
From examples spiked with malware....
Excerpt:
 
 

In the early 1980s, the Russians were constructing a trans-Siberian oil pipeline, and needed an automated system to properly manage it. Softening attitudes allowed them to legitimately purchase older models of computers on the open market. They then approached the American authorities for permission to buy the necessary software. When the US refused, the KGB stole the application.


However, the software they stole had been doctored to go haywire after a while. It would open valves unexpectedly and set pressures too high for the pipeline's welds. When the explosion came, US seismologists measured the blast at three kilotons.

Re:Hmmm... (1, Flamebait)

tibman (623933) | about 5 years ago | (#28832043)

Stories like those make me love the US gov. How cool is that, seriously? To plan something like that? That's Dr. Evil's genius plans being paid for by the US gov and aimed at other nations. As long as the plans are are targeted at problems and not just for evil's sake, i'd say keep it up!

Re:Hmmm... (1)

nashv (1479253) | about 5 years ago | (#28830591)

I am going out a limb here, but could it be 'conscience' ? Hackers, even black hats, will attack only that which they see as evil. I think there is a pretty good consensus that the internet as a whole, is not evil - in fact, it is the most liberating force in our times. Hackers owe their existence to it, and could be observing a self-preservative moral code. Or it could be simply that its too easy. Hackers seek a challenge, and if , as they claim, all it takes them is 30 minutes, perhaps its not worth all the trouble ?

Re:Hmmm... (4, Insightful)

Sigma 7 (266129) | about 5 years ago | (#28831793)

I am going out a limb here, but could it be 'conscience' ? Hackers, even black hats, will attack only that which they see as evil.

More like they're not willing to attack a target they perceive as critical to their operation.

For example, a hacker may find it funny to send something via the Border Gateway Protocol to disable access to Youtube; other hackers might consider this good, since it encouraged productivity. If he instead disables the entire Internet via BGP, he cripples himself and can't do much until the problem is recovered. Said hacker won't be able to brag about taking out the Internet, since no computer enthusiast likes critical infrastructure being taken out.

If a hacker accidentally took out an internet when trying to demonstrate something believed to be harmless (e.g. the Morris Worm), then that's okay. We all make mistakes and gain experience not to do it a third time.

Re:Hmmm... (1)

ahabswhale (1189519) | about 5 years ago | (#28832551)

lol...can't track them with a dead internet (besides the fact that they wouldn't be stupid enough to do it from their own machines in the first place). If they could pull it off, they could easily get away with it unless they were stupid enough to brag about it.

Re:Hmmm... (2, Funny)

Colourspace (563895) | about 5 years ago | (#28828327)

BadAnalogyGuy has just posted something similar... I *swear* it wasn't there when I posted...

Re:Hmmm... (1)

Celeste R (1002377) | about 5 years ago | (#28828379)

There's how many Evil Scientists bent on destroying the world around?

Most people just want money; money that keeps coming.

Re:Hmmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828389)

When are we going to get over the whole white hat, grey hat, black hat thing? It's lame. The fact is that some people can "hack" and others can't. How those people choose to use their talents is up to them, hopefully.

Re:Hmmm... (1)

hedwards (940851) | about 5 years ago | (#28828535)

As opposed to the system we have now where they all do what various law enforcement agencies want?

My hat's kind of brownish... (1)

argent (18001) | about 5 years ago | (#28828721)

Maybe you could call it "tan" or "dun", I don't know. Keeps the sun out of my eyes, anyway. Isn't that what matters?

Re:Hmmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828629)

Assuming these guys are 'white hats', and they are not _necessarily_ the most able or l337 hax0rs out there, then why has someone not already attempted to take the internet down in 30 minutes already? For, say, 1 million dollars? I call hubris..

I am fairly sure the BGP vulnerabilities demonstrated last yeart at defcon (or was it the year before) just how easily large swaths of the internets can be taken down with very little effort. This might have been what l0ft had in mind when they made this statement.

Re:Hmmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828755)

Clearly the most skilled hackers in the world _!would_ call attention to themselves with a product launch for security videos.

Well.. hubris aside, the threat of a lifetime spent in prison is somehow enough to stop them from doing so 'just for fun'.

One million dollars? Ha. You're going to need at least double that just for lawyers. That's like offering 50mil for bin laden. Ridiculous.

So they'd take down the internet, waste all their preparation, know-how, resources, and go to jail. I fail to see the 'step 4: profit.'

Re:Hmmm... (3, Insightful)

augahyde (1016980) | about 5 years ago | (#28828803)

Assuming these guys are 'white hats', and they are not _necessarily_ the most able or l337 hax0rs out there, then why has someone not already attempted to take the internet down in 30 minutes already? For, say, 1 million dollars? I call hubris..

The statement was made in 1998 [senate.gov] when security was extremely lax with a majority of the hacking community residing in the west.

Re:Hmmm... (3, Insightful)

theillien (984847) | about 5 years ago | (#28830143)

Probably because even when talking in front of Congress, hackers are going to prone to puffing their chests out in order to make themselves seem more 1337 than the next group.

Re:Hmmm... (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | about 5 years ago | (#28830721)

Because usually, this gets you shot. And I think you can be as cool a l33t h4x0r as you want. If you are a stain on the walls, it does not matter, does it? ^^

I say, if the government would sign something, stating that they would get away with it, with some UN guarantee backing it... *Then* you could see people attempting this.

Oh, and back when they said it, the security of the internet was a complete joke compared to now. One botnet trojan/virus from today could wipe the whole net from back then without problems. :)

Re:Hmmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28831645)

Assuming these guys are 'white hats', and they are not _necessarily_ the most able or l337 hax0rs out there, then why has someone not already attempted to take the internet down in 30 minutes already? For, say, 1 million dollars? I call hubris..

They were referring to a bug they found in Cisco's IOS, related to BGP annoucements. Yes, they could easily have done it, at the time, given the right access... which I'm guessing they probably had.

I don't have a link handy, but there was a router over in the Ukraine some months back that messed up & took down a bunch of ISP's who were still running routers that weren't patched. I don't remember all the details, some kind of overflow technique that each router would happily relay along and then crash. But pretty much everyone has had that fixed now.

Re:Hmmm... (1)

lorenlal (164133) | about 5 years ago | (#28832071)

Because how do you make money off of it? You just take everything down and... profit?

Let's face it. The internet is much more profitable for your hacker group if you keep it running and allow your bots, and spam generators, and everything else to communicate with each other and report back your earning reports.

Now, some yahoo could go ahead and launch the attack, but that would require use of one of those botnets, and then you'd have to answer to a lot of angry Russians. Last I checked, they don't have to worry about those "criminal justice" thingies.

Hackers NEED the internet (1)

djdevon3 (947872) | about 5 years ago | (#28832393)

If they took down the internet what is there to hack (or forcefully provide incentive for code improvements)? Hardware and social engineering crap again? Not to mention all the completely inept script kiddies that depend on actually skilled coders to do their work for them. There's no way they would shoot themselves in the foot. D...U...H...

Anti-Sec (1)

improfane (855034) | about 5 years ago | (#28828291)

The Anti-Sec folks won't like this!

I reported a MySQL security bug to a recent Slashdot front page and got a 'Thanks - looking into it'. Not sure it has been fixed yet. This gives me no right to publish it anywhere if you ask me. Not yet anyway.

Re:Anti-Sec (4, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | about 5 years ago | (#28828417)

But you -do- have that right, you just don't feel like using it. That is what happens with freedom, even though I have pretty much every right to fill this post with random links to Goatse, penis jokes and conspiracy theories about how 9/11 was planed by Jewish people, I choose not to. Same with you, you have, and should have every right to publish it, you just choose not to.

Re:Anti-Sec (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828627)

9/11 was planed by Jewish people

The WTC was planed. 9/11 was *planned*.

Re:Anti-Sec (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28833959)

wooooooosh!

Re:Anti-Sec (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828713)

"and conspiracy theories about how 9/11 was planed by Jewish people" - by Darkness404 (1287218) on Sunday July 26, @02:12PM (#28828417)

Heh, this:

----

Mayors of Hoboken, Secaucus, Five Rabbis Arrested:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agHjKddhC2TE [bloomberg.com]

----

Is no 'conspiracy theory', but instead, F A C T (Secaucus New Jersey this week, the week of July 23rd, 2009 - Where Jew Rabbis were caught laundering tons of money in a huge scheme of rip offs)

APK

5 rabbis & Bernie Madoff too? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828903)

See subject-line above, alongside that "fine jewish fellow", Bernie Madoff, of the ponzi-schemes done in "hedge funds"...

APK

P.S.=> This particular group of this religion's peoples might wonder WHY they have headed into a furnace before... & the 5 rabbis caught laundering monies in Secaucus New Jersey & Bernie Madoff there are just examples of WHY they have been driven nation to nation, out of them, around the world & since time immemorial! People just do NOT WANT THIEVES AROUND, basically, is why (& I used to wonder WHY the jews were SO despised, worldwide, until I saw things like that going on... done by jews!)... apk

Love the beliefs that Jews have here... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28831743)

Straight from Jew Talmud, about their views on gentiles/goyim (non jews) that may explain why they are persecuted (perhaps rightfully so, because this disgusted me about them from their OWN beliefs systems written down):

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.men/browse_thre [google.com] ad/thread/2385ab653d66252/6cc421202f854b7b

There is much evidence that the core of Jewish teaching is that only Jews are "Chosen," are really worthy of YHWH's blessings. All others are animals, to be exploited. A lot like the Gypsy creed....Gypsies and Jews are very closely related.

From their Talmud:

#1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim (Gentiles) is like killing a wild
animal."

#2. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be
violated."

#3. Yebamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted
if she is three years of age."

#4. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

#5. Yebamoth 98a: "All gentile children are animals."

#6. Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122: "A Jew is forbidden to drink from
a glass of wine which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made
the wine unclean."

#7. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of
the world are not human beings but beasts."

See the jews viewpoints of others, and you think tossing them into furnaces is unwarranted? I still do, but this is why they are outcasts... I mean, look at their views on the rest of us! They are so arrogant as to think they are "the chosen people" but anyone that controls the presses and media can write and state things like they did saying they are "the chosen".

When the rest of the nations of the world didn't want them, that said quite a bit to myself. I had to see both their viewpoint and that of the germans as the prime example. I see the Jew view above and I do NOT agree with it, it is disgusting.

Raping 3 year old kids? My God!

Jews are getting others in nations like the USA circumcized so they can hide inside by security by obscurity, so they cannot be identified as jews as they were in Nazi Germany, when they were asked months beforehand to leave, in a nation that was not theirs.

They take control of areas like communications, the legal system, the political system, the medical trade, & more... just like any invading conqueror would, albeit, w/out firing a single shot from a weapon... &, I only call it, like I see it.

APK

P.S.=> "Know thy enemy"... apk

A url to reference in regards to my last post (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28831915)

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.men/browse_thread/thread/2385ab653d66252/6cc421202f854b7b [google.com]

Disgusting... especially the "top 5":

----

#1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim (Gentiles) is like killing a wild
animal."

#2. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be
violated."

#3. Yebamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted
if she is three years of age."

#4. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

#5. Yebamoth 98a: "All gentile children are animals."

----

However, per Bernie Madoff + his ponzi schemes in the hedgefunds scandal, & then, topping that off w/ the Jew Rabbis in New Jersey being caught laundering monies this week also?

Well - It only appears that only the TRUE NATURE of the people that hold the Jewish faith is being revealed... and, this time, by their actions (not just the words they profess to live by (via the quotes from their talmud above)).

APK

P.S.=> Unbelievable, yet true (per my post parent to this one)... but, explains a LOT, & STRAIGHT FROM THE JEWISH TALMUD no less! They call the rest of us animals & that it is "OK" to murder & kill + rape our kids?? Small wonder they head into an oven, everytime, & have been driven from every nation they invade & impoverish, all thru history - you can "mod me down", all you like, but it doesn't 'stand up' too well, vs. what is in the jew talmud itself, & especially in regards to the rest of us non-jews (even little kids, for God's sake!)... apk

Re:Anti-Sec (1)

fedxone-v86 (1080801) | about 5 years ago | (#28829053)

The Antisec guys just have a problem with "security experts" who earn their living by doing nothing but posting exploits (without contacting anyone but Secunia) and generally spreading fear.

I haven't really understood their views on non-disclosure but my guess is they'd rather have no disclosure at all than the farce that is full disclosure.

Re:Anti-Sec (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | about 5 years ago | (#28829309)

I haven't really understood their views on non-disclosure but my guess is they'd rather have no disclosure at all than the farce that is full disclosure.

My guess is that they don't want people ruining their fun. It's a lot easier to have a bag of tricks if people aren't aware of what said tricks are.

Re:Anti-Sec (1)

fedxone-v86 (1080801) | about 5 years ago | (#28833695)

But what's more dangerous, the bag of tricks in the hands of a few skilled people or an open bulletin board with 0day-exploits for everyone?

What makes this question even more complicated for me is that Secunia, the people who protect us from exploits if we pay them, is sponsoring this practice.

Re:Anti-Sec (2, Insightful)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | about 5 years ago | (#28834103)

But what's more dangerous, the bag of tricks in the hands of a few skilled people or an open bulletin board with 0day-exploits for everyone?

What makes this question even more complicated for me is that Secunia, the people who protect us from exploits if we pay them, is sponsoring this practice.

The bag of tricks in the hands of a few - hands down. What we're talking about here is carte blanc access in the hands of a select few. We have to trust that the motives of these few strangers will fall in line with ours. And then we have to trust that the "select few" will remain few. Eventually they won't in both cases. Individuals will use these exploits to cause damage. And knowledge of these exploits will spread until even the least trusted in the underground has access to it.

We ran this gambit in the 80s. Exploits would become known within the underground. The most elite would share the knowledge amongst other inner-circle personalities. Eventually the exploit would slip to wider and wider distribution. Vendors would either be oblivious to the exploit or completely unmotivated to fix it. The general public would be oblivious to it or unmotivated to invoke any fixes a vendor might have provided. Until some amateur will do something damaging [wikipedia.org] (intentional or not) with the information.

An interesting thing to note is the nature of computer crime over the years. A good deal of it was the activities of the stereotypical exploring hacker / phreak. And there was always the insider looking for revenge or manipulating data to steal. However, there were also "classic" hackers making money manipulating systems to steal equipment. And the Mafia was a consumer of Blue Boxes.

Today, the computer crime scene has expanded to provide ample opportunities to tempt the first individual willing to hand over an exploit. You can question Secunia's motives if you want. But you should be aware that there are others just as driven with much more sinister motives.

I agree that 0day exploits on public bulletin boards breeds chaos. But it's very visible chaos. Many more people are aware of the issues presented by a publicly published vulnerability. And that gives it a better chance of being addressed and its effective life shortened.

It would be better, of course, if the vulnerability never existed. But they tend to exist. There are 0days right now waiting to be discovered. The question is how long until they are discovered, by who, and how will they be used?

hurray! (1)

myfootsmells (905742) | about 5 years ago | (#28828313)

hurray!

Pioneers of the glamourous geek lifestyle (5, Insightful)

Beefpatrol (1080553) | about 5 years ago | (#28828325)

Those guys also were probably among the first to make it publically obvious that computer skills were not simply vehicles for the personal amusement of the socially inept. The press at the time always discussed how they had one apartment for themselves, and one next door for their gear. They made money being hackers, (in the old sense of the word -- not crackers.) I imagine that a substantial part of the sudden increase in society's respect for geeks, (maybe mostly their potential incomes,) was due to the glamorous press exposure l0pht received at that time. Perhaps Slashdot should thank them -- I'm not really sure. It will be interesting to see what this new l0pht is like.

Re:Pioneers of the glamourous geek lifestyle (0, Troll)

maxume (22995) | about 5 years ago | (#28828447)

That's just stupid. Computer skills became more in demand because computers became more entrenched in society, and no, computers did not become more entrenched in society because the press did some articles about some guys that were smart.

Re:Pioneers of the glamourous geek lifestyle (5, Interesting)

Beefpatrol (1080553) | about 5 years ago | (#28828479)

You're right that computer skills became more in demand because computers became more entrenched in society. My main point was that geeks gained substantial social respect because the media published a bunch of stuff that glamorized geekdom. I didn't mean to imply that (social respect == ability to command more income). Geeks were already making money and their skills were already valuable. A lot of people didn't realize that at the time though. The prototype geeks the media used at the time were the l0pht guys. I think it mattered that they were independant -- they weren't working for a corporation or anything like that.

Re:Pioneers of the glamourous geek lifestyle (1)

maxume (22995) | about 5 years ago | (#28828657)

That's clearer. Still, I expect Bill Gates has been much more of an ambassador (If I asked the 50 people that I am most closely related to what 'lopht' was, they would first think I was talking about a thing you put a bed on and then not have heard of the group, but most of them would know who Bill Gates is), and that much of the rest of it has been due to a simple increase in numbers of people who write software (and other similar tasks that go beyond the uses that the majority has for computers).

Re:Pioneers of the glamourous geek lifestyle (1)

Beefpatrol (1080553) | about 5 years ago | (#28828985)

You make a good point. People knew about the Microsoft millionaire phenomenon probably before l0pht. Perhaps I should say that the press coverage of l0pht inspired me more than Bill Gates. I've known quite a few people that did the "bunch of guys hacking on the same stuff in the same apartment which also happens to be where they live" thing. One group of people that I knew actually lived in the apartment next door to the hacking apartment. One of them is even famous, (for a geek,) for having done some things similar to what the l0pht guys did. He never mentioned specifically that he was inspired by them though. Maybe it is more accurate to say that the media coverage of l0pht showed geeks a glamorous way to use the skills they have to get social respect and money. (Show people why they should care about specific technical topics and offer related assistance for a fee.)

Re:Pioneers of the glamourous geek lifestyle (2, Insightful)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | about 5 years ago | (#28829653)

I imagine that a substantial part of the sudden increase in society's respect for geeks, (maybe mostly their potential incomes,) was due to the glamorous press exposure l0pht received at that time.

Or maybe it's that whole Internet thing that was popping up around that time. The geeks became attractively rich. The tech stopped being black boxes hidden in white-floored, air-conditioned caves and became vehicles for wealth and ubiquitous services. And did I mention the geeks becoming attractively rich?

I doubt "society" in general paid much attention to L0pht (beyond the attention the mysterious hacker "whiz kid" usually gets). There was already about a decade of exposure to the microcomputer and the concept that it would change our lives [time.com] . And we had already seen ample exposure of the hacker to pop-culture (i.e. the movie War Games [imdb.com] and T.V. show Whiz Kids [imdb.com] ). Mainstream society seemed sort of curious but not entirely impressed with the geek behind the curtain.

But when the Internet dot-boom era began, money got everyone's attention. Suddenly the geek behind the curtain got much more interesting.

Re:Pioneers of the glamourous geek lifestyle (4, Funny)

Hurricane78 (562437) | about 5 years ago | (#28830765)

Doesn't get me laid, though, does it?

Re:Pioneers of the glamourous geek lifestyle (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28834167)

That would have been much more impressive with a four-digit UID.

AC

literature request (3, Insightful)

Trepidity (597) | about 5 years ago | (#28828385)

Since I like history and dead-tree, anyone have a suggestion for a good book covering the history of these 1990s hacking/security/blackhat/whitehat/grayhat groups, and what you might call the fragmentation/dissolution of the underground? There's good material on the 80s, but much less on the 90s, it seems, despite a decade having passed.

The only one I know of with more than a passing mention is a 20-page overview in Ch. 3 ("Hacking in the 1990s") of the book Hacker Culture [amazon.com] (2003). Others?

Re:literature request (5, Informative)

Darkness404 (1287218) | about 5 years ago | (#28828433)

The book The Best of 2600, a Hacker Odyssey is pretty good. http://www.amazon.com/Best-2600-Hacker-Odyssey/dp/0470294191 [amazon.com] . And while it might not have the scope you are looking for on the groups themselves, it does seem to give mention to every major event in hacker history since 1984 when the magazine was published. Plus its pretty recent being published just in July of 08.

Re:literature request (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28834683)

Thanks, just ordered it.

AC

Re:literature request (1)

fat_mike (71855) | about 5 years ago | (#28831259)

Here:

Out of the Inner Circle [wikipedia.org]

And here:

The Hacker's Handbook [wikipedia.org]

I have both of these and they are excellent. The Bill Landreth book is the better one though.

Re:literature request (1)

Trepidity (597) | about 5 years ago | (#28832051)

While those look like good suggestions, they were both published in the 1980s, so I'm guessing they don't cover very much of the 1990s. =] I'll take a look at them for the 80s content, though; thanks.

Re:literature request (1)

sean_nestor (781844) | about 5 years ago | (#28833183)

Since I like history and dead-tree, anyone have a suggestion for a good book covering the history of these 1990s hacking/security/blackhat/whitehat/grayhat groups, and what you might call the fragmentation/dissolution of the underground? There's good material on the 80s, but much less on the 90s, it seems, despite a decade having passed.

The only one I know of with more than a passing mention is a 20-page overview in Ch. 3 ("Hacking in the 1990s") of the book Hacker Culture [amazon.com] (2003). Others?

Masters of Deception: The Gang that Rules Cyberspace [amazon.com] comes to mind.

Like some people say (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828401)

OH NOES!

Nice and all... (1)

Thelasko (1196535) | about 5 years ago | (#28828429)

but can they record the thing in a room that doesn't have the acoustics of a tin can?

Re:Nice and all... (1)

NeMon'ess (160583) | about 5 years ago | (#28829883)

I'm sure they could, but the audio fits with the space-station backdrop. It also reminds me of the 1994 game Burn:Cycle.

Just like your parent's timers (2, Funny)

uberushaximus (1025976) | about 5 years ago | (#28828445)

30 minutes should be more than enough for anyone!

First impression.. (3, Informative)

Seth Kriticos (1227934) | about 5 years ago | (#28828593)

I watched the last news video of them. Here is my impression:

* They recreated the feel of the 80's hacker optic mixed with matrix in an endless loop
    (no, that was not a compliment)
* 20 % of the show was advertisement (maybe more)
* The news are mostly a summary on what you read here on security.slashdot.com
* The tone of the show gets boring.. well, immediately

The basic idea is nice, but the actual show is not that impressive. Could get better though..

L0pht history (4, Insightful)

Animats (122034) | about 5 years ago | (#28828615)

L0pht Heavy Industries went corporate [securityfocus.com] in 2000, and became "@Stake", which was acquired by Symantec in 2004, and disappeared into the Symantec empire.

L0pht, founded in 1992, was itself a descendant of the Cult of the Dead Cow [cultdeadcow.com] , founded in 1984 and still around, more or less.

There have been various spinoffs and buybacks along the way, but it's been a while since cutting edge work came from that crowd.

Re:L0pht history (1)

inode_buddha (576844) | about 5 years ago | (#28831465)

ISTR this also... good times, back then. Another one that I was interested in was +ORC (fravia). Slightly outdated nowdays, but still very educational.

Re:L0pht history and everyone else who posted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28831713)

cDc rocks... L0pht rocks... They have NEVER died. Just cause you are not taking the spotlight doesn't mean you are dead. They just did other things, but the same. No I will not elaborate.

They inspired me. I have thus become a Linux Engineer, etc. They used to have a building with wires and antenae coming out of it.. and tell everyone we are hacking you and you cannot catch us..... Hey I am going to come into your house. I am warning you ahead of time, try and stop me all you want, you cannot find me. I am going to break the law and you cannot catch me coppers. Cause I got plan A thru infinity planned out. AND they have lived up to their boast.

So all you naysayers and wannabees ... pffft.. Who are you??? You speak of the ELITE of the ELITE.

And as regards to China, Russia, etc... haha... that argument is so flimsy its laughable. I'm not going to play all my cards... I'm not going to share inside info on things that I have but I will let my words stand as they are. But to your credit it is a plausible thought process and question.

cDc and L0pht will never die.. like someone said they defeat Chuck Norris. Even when they have passed on.

Re:L0pht history and everyone else who posted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28831943)

cool story bro

Wow! (1)

sharkey (16670) | about 5 years ago | (#28828649)

First L0pthcrack Rises Again [slashdot.org] and now L0pht themselves are back?!?! Such amazing times we live in.

circa MMIX ... (1)

nitroyogi (1471601) | about 5 years ago | (#28828767)

Did anyone notice ... HNN's website has nicely formatted Google ads?!

these guys work for/with the feds (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28828945)

watch out

Re:these guys work for/with the feds (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28834007)

tidy your room little boy
BEFORE TEH FEDS get you.

*sigh*

Wish they could bring back (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28829165)

I wish they could bring back the fine articles Sercrity Portal used to have, in particular, "Ask Buffy, by Buffy Overflow". Great stuff there.

Ugh. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28829401)

So these are the posers that put a bit of faux repectability on crackers and a whole lot of smear on actual honestly creative hackers. Clearly, a whole lot of moxie and a bit of media savvy brings you quite a ways.

Thanks so much guys.

Remind me again... (1)

icebike (68054) | about 5 years ago | (#28829913)

Why in the world would one visit the web site?

I try to avoid getting my oil changes at Joe's ChopShop and Used Parts emporium, and I avoid banking at Webegone Bank and Trust.

Oh, sure, I'm sure these are the "whitehats".

Re:Remind me again... (2)

strat (39913) | about 5 years ago | (#28833009)

Well knowing some of these folks personally (count the digits in my slashdot ID if you're wondering for how long)... perhaps because they have credible insights into the industry and technology, and secondarily because given some of their day jobs, it's exceedingly unlikely they'd choose to be affiliated overtly with a site that was malicious?

Just a thought.

bbs.l0pht.com (2, Interesting)

ubungy (1471733) | about 5 years ago | (#28832255)

a comeback is logging into bbs.l0pht.com via p23. a comeback is chatting with razer or dark dante on darkcartel.com... a comeback is beigeboxing on ess. nostalgia is great, i live for it. but as for l0pht there is no 'comeback'. only born anew as something worthy to this 'generation'. what you got up your sleeve now?

More info (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#28834773)

You can just read the archives of 2600 here Gay Hackers [2600.com]
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