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Google Open Sources Wave Protocol Implementation

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the this-open-source-stuff-is-a-fad dept.

Communications 183

eldavojohn writes "Certainly one of the most important steps in adopting a protocol is a working open source example of it. Well, google has open sourced an implementation of the wave protocol for those of you curious about Google's new collaboration and conversation platform. It's been reviewed, skewered and called 'Anti-Web' but now's your chance to see a Java implementation of it. The article lists it as still rapidly evolving so it might not be prudent to buy into it yet. Any thumbs up or thumbs down from actual users of the new protocol?"

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183 comments

First Post! (-1, Troll)

knewter (62953) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854083)

Lame

Re:First Post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28854129)

It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality,' which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to pedophilia.

What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken advocates:

  • Linus Torvalds [microsoft.com] is an anagram of slit anus or VD 'L,' clearly referring to himself by the first initial.
  • Richard M. Stallman [geocities.com], spokespervert for the Gaysex's Not Unusual 'movement' is an anagram of mans cram thrill ad.
  • Alan Cox [microsoft.com] is barely an anagram of anal cox which is just so filthy and unchristian it unnerves me.

I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual [goatse.fr] propaganda diatribe The Cathedral and the Bizarre, is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram for secondary rim and cord in my arse. It just goes to show you that he is indeed queer.

Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail [microsoft.com], which is obviously sinister sodomite slang for 'Felch Male' -- a disgusting practise. For those not in the know, 'felching' is the act performed by two perverts wherein one sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into 'e-male.'

As far as Richard 'Master' Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually quoted [salon.com] on leftist commie propaganda site Salon.com as saying the following: 'I've been resistant to the pressure to conform in any circumstance,' he says. 'It's about being able to question conventional wisdom,' he asserts. 'I believe in love, but not monogamy,' he says plainly.

And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a flaming homo [comp-u-geek.net] slut [rotten.com]!

Speaking about 'flaming,' who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual [goatse.fr] perversion of corrupting the innocence of young children [slashdot.org]. To quote from the article linked:

'I've got a rare kidney disease,' I told her. 'I have to go to the bathroom a lot. You can come with me if you want, but it takes a while. Is that okay with you? Do you want a note from my doctor?'

Is this why you were touching your penis [rotten.com] in the cinema, Jon? And letting the other boys touch it too?

We should also point out that Jon Katz refers to himself as 'Slashdot's resident Gasbag.' Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few who aren't aware of the list of homosexual [goatse.fr] terminology found inside the Linux 'Sauce Code,' a 'Gasbag' is a pervert who gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his urethra (or to use the common parlance, 'piss-pipe'), then his homosexual [goatse.fr] lover blows firmly down the straw to inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the dignity and copyright of posters to Slashdot by gathering together their postings and publishing them en masse to further his twisted and manipulative journalistic agenda.

Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.

In addition, many of the Linux distributions (a 'distribution' is the most common way to spread the faggots' wares) are run by faggot groups. The Slackware [redhat.com] distro is named after the 'Slack-wear' fags wear to allow easy access to the anus for sexual purposes. Furthermore, Slackware is a close anagram of claw arse, a reference to the homosexual [goatse.fr] practise of anal fisting. The Mandrake [slackware.com] product is run by a group of French faggot satanists, and is named after the faggot nickname for the vibrator. It was also chosen because it is an anagram for dark amen and ram naked, which is what they do.

Another 'distro,' (abbrieviated as such because it sounds a bit like 'Disco,' which is where homosexuals [goatse.fr] preyed on young boys in the 1970s), is Debian, [mandrake.com] an anagram of in a bed, which could be considered innocent enough (after all, a bed is both where we sleep and pray), until we realise what other names Debian uses to describe their foul wares. 'Woody' is obvious enough, being a term for the erect male penis [rotten.com], glistening with pre-cum. But far sicker is the phrase 'Frozen Potato' that they use. This filthy term, again found in the secret homosexual [goatse.fr] 'Sauce Code,' refers to the solo homosexual [goatse.fr] practice of defecating into a clear polythene bag, shaping the turd into a crude approximation of the male phallus, then leaving it in the freezer overnight until it becomes solid. The practitioner then proceeds to push the frozen 'potato' up his own rectum, squeezing it in and out until his tight young balls erupt in a screaming orgasm.

And Red Hat [debian.org] is secret homo [comp-u-geek.net] slang for the tip of a penis [rotten.com] that is soaked in blood from a freshly violated underage ringpiece.

The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! For example, the 'supermount' tool was devised to allow deeper penetration, which is good for fags because it gives more pressure on the prostate gland. 'Automount' is used, on the other hand, because Linux users are all fat and gay, and need to mount each other [comp-u-geek.net] automatically.

The depths of their depravity can be seen in their use of 'mount points.' These are, plainly speaking, the different points of penetration. The main one is obviously/anus, but there are others. Militant fags even say 'there is no/opt mount point' because for these dirty perverts faggotry is not optional but a way of life.

More evidence is in the fact that Linux users say how much they love `man`, even going so far as to say that all new Linux users (who are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda) should try out `man`. In no other system do users boast of their frequent recourse to a man.

Other areas of the system also show Linux's inherit gayness. For example, people are often told of the 'FAQ,' but how many innocent heterosexual Windows [amiga.com] users know what this actually means. The answer is shocking: Faggot Anal Quest: the voyage of discovery for newly converted fags!

Even the title 'Slashdot [geekizoid.com]' originally referred to a homosexual [goatse.fr] practice. Slashdot [kuro5hin.org] of course refers to the popular gay practice of blood-letting. The Slashbots, of course are those super-zealous homosexuals [goatse.fr] who take this perversion to its extreme by ripping open their anuses, as seen on the site most popular with Slashdot users, the depraved work of Satan, http://www.eff.org/ [eff.org].

The editors of Slashdot [slashduh.org] also have homosexual [goatse.fr] names: 'Hemos' is obvious in itself, being one vowel away from 'Homos.' But even more sickening is 'Commander Taco' which sounds a bit like 'Commode in Taco,' filthy gay slang for a pair of spreadeagled buttocks that are caked with excrement [pboy.com]. (The best form of lubrication, they insist.) Sometimes, these 'Taco Commodes' have special 'Salsa Sauce' (blood from a ruptured rectum) and 'Cheese' (rancid flakes of penis [rotten.com] discharge) toppings. And to make it even worse, Slashdot [notslashdot.org] runs on Apache!

The Apache [microsoft.com] server, whose use among fags is as prevalent as AIDS, is named after homosexual [goatse.fr] activity -- as everyone knows, popular faggot band, the Village People, featured an Apache Indian, and it is for him that this gay program is named.

And that's not forgetting the use of patches in the Linux fag world -- patches are used to make the anus accessible for repeated anal sex even after its rupture by a session of fisting.

To summarise: Linux is gay. 'Slash -- Dot' is the graphical description of the space between a young boy's scrotum and anus. And BeOS [apple.com] is for hermaphrodites and disabled 'stumpers.'

FEEDBACK

What worries me is how much you know about what gay people do. I'm scared I actually read this whole thing. I think this post is a good example of the negative effects of Internet usage on people. This person obviously has no social life anymore and had to result to writing something as stupid as this. And actually take the time to do it too. Although... I think it was satire.. blah.. it's early. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well, the only reason I know all about this is because I had the misfortune to read the Linux 'Sauce code' once. Although publicised as the computer code needed to get Linux up and running on a computer (and haven't you always been worried about the phrase 'Monolithic Kernel'?), this foul document is actually a detailed and graphic description of every conceivable degrading perversion known to the human race, as well as a few of the major animal species. It has shocked and disturbed me, to the point of needing to shock and disturb the common man to warn them of the impending homo [comp-u-geek.net]-calypse which threatens to engulf our planet.

You must work for the government. Trying to post the most obscene stuff in hopes that slashdot won't be able to continue or something, due to legal woes. If i ever see your ugly face, i'm going to stick my fireplace poker up your ass, after it's nice and hot, to weld shut that nasty gaping hole of yours. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Doesn't it give you a hard-on to imagine your thick strong poker ramming it's way up my most sacred of sphincters? You're beyond help, my friend, as the only thing you can imagine is the foul penetrative violation of another man. Are you sure you're not Eric Raymond? The government, being populated by limp-wristed liberals, could never stem the sickening tide of homosexual [goatse.fr] child molesting Linux advocacy. Hell, they've given NAMBLA free reign for years!

you really should post this logged in. i wish i could remember jebus's password, cuz i'd give it to you. -- mighty jebus [slashdot.org], Slashdot

Thank you for your kind words of support. However, this document shall only ever be posted anonymously. This is because the 'Open Sauce' movement is a sham, proposing homoerotic cults of hero worshipping in the name of freedom. I speak for the common man. For any man who prefers the warm, enveloping velvet folds of a woman's vagina [bodysnatchers.co.uk] to the tight puckered ringpiece of a child. These men, being common, decent folk, don't have a say in the political hypocrisy that is Slashdot culture. I am the unknown liberator [hitler.org].

ROLF LAMO i hate linux FAGGOTS -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

We shouldn't hate them, we should pity them for the misguided fools they are... Fanatical Linux zeal-outs need to be herded into camps for re-education and subsequent rehabilitation into normal heterosexual society. This re-education shall be achieved by forcing them to watch repeats of Baywatch until the very mention of Pamela Anderson [rotten.com] causes them to fill their pants with healthy heterosexual jism [zillabunny.com].

Actually, that's not at all how scrotal inflation works. I understand it involves injecting sterile saline solution into the scrotum. I've never tried this, but you can read how to do it safely in case you're interested. (Before you moderate this down, ask yourself honestly -- who are the real crazies -- people who do scrotal inflation, or people who pay $1000+ for a game console?) -- double_h [slashdot.org], Slashdot

Well, it just goes to show that even the holy Linux 'sauce code' is riddled with bugs that need fixing. (The irony of Jon Katz not even being able to inflate his scrotum correctly has not been lost on me.) The Linux pervert elite already acknowledge this, with their queer slogan: 'Given enough arms, all rectums are shallow.' And anyway, the PS2 [xbox.com] sucks major cock and isn't worth the money. Intellivision forever!

dude did u used to post on msnbc's nt bulletin board now that u are doing anti-gay posts u also need to start in with anti-black stuff too c u in church -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

For one thing, whilst Linux is a cavalcade of queer propaganda masquerading as the future of computing, NT [linux.com] is used by people who think nothing better of encasing their genitals in quick setting plaster then going to see a really dirty porno film, enjoying the restriction enforced onto them. Remember, a wasted arousal is a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church [atheism.org]. Clearly, the only god-fearing Christian operating system in existence is CP/M -- The Christian Program Monitor. All computer users should immediately ask their local pastor to install this fine OS onto their systems. It is the only route to salvation.

Secondly, this message is for every man. Computers know no colour. Not only that, but one of the finest websites in the world is maintained by a Black Man [stileproject.com] . Now fuck off you racist donkey felcher.

And don't forget that slashdot was written in Perl, which is just too close to 'Pearl Necklace' for comfort.... oh wait; that's something all you heterosexuals do.... I can't help but wonder how much faster the trolls could do First-Posts on this site if it were redone in PHP... I could hand-type dynamic HTML pages faster than Perl can do them. -- phee [slashdot.org], Slashdot

Although there is nothing unholy about the fine heterosexual act of ejaculating between a woman's breasts, squirting one's load up towards her neck and chin area, it should be noted that Perl [python.org] (standing for Pansies Entering Rectums Locally) is also close to 'Pearl Monocle,' 'Pearl Nosering,' and the ubiquitous 'Pearl Enema.'

One scary thing about Perl [sun.com] is that it contains hidden homosexual [goatse.fr] messages. Take the following code: LWP::Simple -- It looks innocuous enough, doesn't it? But look at the line closely: There are two colons next to each other! As Larry 'Balls to the' Wall would openly admit in the Perl Documentation, Perl was designed from the ground up to indoctrinate it's programmers into performing unnatural sexual acts -- having two colons so closely together is clearly a reference to the perverse sickening act of 'colon kissing,' whereby two homosexual [goatse.fr] queers spread their buttocks wide, pressing their filthy torn sphincters together. They then share small round objects like marbles or golfballs by passing them from one rectum to another using muscle contraction alone. This is also referred to in programming 'circles' as 'Parameter Passing.'

And PHP [perl.org] stands for Perverted Homosexual Penetration. Didn't you know?

Thank you for your valuable input on this. I am sure you will be never forgotten. BTW: Did I mention that this could be useful in terraforming Mars? Mars rulaa. -- Eimernase [slashdot.org], Slashdot

Well, I don't know about terraforming Mars, but I do know that homosexual [goatse.fr] Linux Advocates have been probing Uranus for years.

That's inspiring. Keep up the good work, AC. May God in his wisdom grant you the strength to bring the plain honest truth to this community, and make it pure again. Yours, Cerberus. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

*sniff* That brings a tear to my eye. Thank you once more for your kind support. I have taken faith in the knowledge that I am doing the Good Lord [atheism.org]'s work, but it is encouraging to know that I am helping out the common man here.

However, I should be cautious about revealing your name 'Cerberus' on such a filthy den of depravity as Slashdot. It is a well known fact that the 'Kerberos' documentation from Microsoft is a detailed manual describing, in intimate, exacting detail, how to sexually penetrate a variety of unwilling canine animals; be they domesticated, wild, or mythical. Slashdot posters have taken great pleasure in illegally spreading this documentation far and wide, treating it as an 'extension' to the Linux 'Sauce Code,' for the sake of 'interoperability.' (The slang term they use for nonconsensual intercourse -- their favourite kind.)

In fact, sick twisted Linux deviants are known to have LAN parties, (Love of Anal Naughtiness, needless to say.), wherein they entice a stray dog, known as the 'Samba Mount,' into their homes. Up to four of these filth-sodden blasphemers against nature take turns to plunge their erect, throbbing, uncircumcised members, conkers-deep, into the rectum, mouth, and other fleshy orifices of the poor animal. Eventually, the 'Samba Mount' collapses due to 'overload,' and needs to be 'rebooted.' (i.e., kicked out into the street, and left to fend for itself.) Many Linux users boast about their 'uptime' in such situations.

Inspiring stuff! If only all trolls were this quality! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

If only indeed. You can help our brave cause by moderating this message up as often as possible. I recommend '+1, Underrated,' as that will protect your precious Karma in Metamoderation [slashdot.org]. Only then can we break through the glass ceiling of Homosexual Slashdot Culture. Is it any wonder that the new version of Slashcode has been christened 'Bender'???

If we can get just one of these postings up to at least '+1,' then it will be archived forever! Others will learn of our struggle, and join with us in our battle for freedom!

It's pathetic you've spent so much time writing this. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I am compelled to document the foulness and carnal depravity [catholic.net] that is Linux, in order that we may prepare ourselves for the great holy war that is to follow. It is my solemn duty to peel back the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wire brush of enlightenment.

As with any great open-source project, you need someone asking this question, so I'll do it. When the hell is version 2.0 going to be ready?!?! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I could make an arrogant, childish comment along the lines of 'Every time someone asks for 2.0, I won't release it for another 24 hours,' but the truth of the matter is that I'm quite nervous of releasing a 'number two,' as I can guarantee some filthy shit-slurping Linux pervert would want to suck it straight out of my anus before I've even had chance to wipe.

I desperately want to suck your monolithic kernel, you sexy hunk, you. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I sincerely hope you're Natalie Portman [geocities.com].

Dude, nothing on slashdot larger than 3 paragraphs is worth reading. Try to distill the message, whatever it was, and maybe I'll read it. As it is, I have to much open source software to write to waste even 10 seconds of precious time. 10 seconds is all its gonna take M$ to whoop Linux's ass. Vigilence is the price of Free (as in libre -- from the fine, frou frou French language) Software. Hack on fellow geeks, and remember: Friday is Bouillabaisse day except for heathens who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins. Those godless, oil drench, bearded sexist clowns can pull grits from their pantaloons (another fine, fine French word) and eat that. Anyway, try to keep your message focused and concise. For concision is the soul of derision. Way. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

What the fuck?

I've read your gay conspiracy post version 1.3.0 and I must say I'm impressed. In particular, I appreciate how you have managed to squeeze in a healthy dose of the latent homosexuality you gay-bashing homos [comp-u-geek.net] tend to be full of. Thank you again. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well bugger me!

ooooh honey. how insecure are you!!! wann a little massage from deare bruci. love you -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Fuck right off!

IMPORTANT: This message needs to be heard (Not HURD [linux.org], which is an acronym for 'Huge Unclean Rectal Dilator') across the whole community, so it has been released into the Public Domain [icopyright.com]. You know, that licence that we all had before those homoerotic crypto-fascists came out with the GPL [apple.com] (Gay Penetration License) that is no more than an excuse to see who's got the biggest feces-encrusted [rotten.com] cock. I would have put this up on Freshmeat [adultmember.com], but that name is known to be a euphemism for the tight rump of a young boy.

Come to think of it, the whole concept of 'Source Control' unnerves me, because it sounds a bit like 'Sauce Control,' which is a description of the homosexual [goatse.fr] practice of holding the base of the cock shaft tightly upon the point of ejaculation, thus causing a build up of semenal fluid that is only released upon entry into an incision made into the base of the receiver's scrotum. And 'Open Sauce' is the act of ejaculating into another mans face or perhaps a biscuit to be shared later. Obviously, 'Closed Sauce' is the only Christian thing to do, as evidenced by the fact that it is what Cathedrals are all about.

Contributors: (although not to the eternal game of 'soggy biscuit' that open 'sauce' development has become) Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, phee, Anonymous Coward, mighty jebus, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, double_h, Anonymous Coward, Eimernase, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward. Further contributions are welcome.

Current changes: This version sent to FreeWIPO [slashdot.org] by 'Bring BackATV' as plain text. Reformatted everything, added all links back in (that we could match from the previous version), many new ones (Slashbot bait links). Even more spelling fixed. Who wrote this thing, CmdrTaco himself?

Previous changes: Yet more changes added. Spelling fixed. Feedback added. Explanation of 'distro' system. 'Mount Point' syntax described. More filth regarding `man` and Slashdot. Yet more fucking spelling fixed. 'Fetchmail' uncovered further. More Slashbot baiting. Apache exposed. Distribution licence at foot of document.

ANUX -- A full Linux distribution... Up your ass!

Oh, well, if there's a Java implementation (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28854089)

It clearly can't be anti-web.

Re:Oh, well, if there's a Java implementation (3, Insightful)

Smegly (1607157) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854741)

It might be pro-GoogleOS. I would not be surprised if it becomes a communication hub for Google's netbook OS.

Yay for open sourcing (1)

cytoman (792326) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854125)

Google is definitely taking the right step in open sourcing Wave. Now, if only I could get an invite to participate in the Wave beta....

Re:Yay for open sourcing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28854271)

I got one, and its not as exciting as I thought it would be. spelly isn't there, rosy isn't there, and there just doesn't seem like much to do.

Single Google Wave Users = Meh (1)

wintermute1974 (596184) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855805)

Unlike something like Google Mail, offering a single user access to the Google Wave experimental servers just doesn't make sense at all. This is a collaborative tool. The magic is in working on waves with others.

The people at Google are pretty smart. I've been following Wave progress in the news and on blogs, but so far no one has answered this question.

Re:Yay for open sourcing (2, Informative)

Yogiz (1123127) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854905)

I assume you've tried signing up [google.com]? You should be able to develop something however if you want to get a peek.

Obligatory... (5, Funny)

bennomatic (691188) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854141)

Too confusing. Requires a browser. Won't run on my iPod. Lame.

Re:Obligatory... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28855021)

More like: Requires graphical interface. Won't run on my hand-rolled 64-bit 2.6.31-rc4-git2 kernel. Lame.

Re:Obligatory... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28855487)

Actually, it runs ok on the iPod. The Wave client is a big ball of jscript and it makes an iTouch nice and toasty to hold, but it runs...

When does the Litigation Start? (-1, Flamebait)

mpapet (761907) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854221)

First of all, it's been done already. Obviously google couldn't use the standards already in place. The shareholders would formulate the idea the place is some kind of hippie commune.

Telco's patent attorneys should be all over google. The telco's probably tolerate ebay's Skype for now. It's entirely another thing to infringe on their Wireless business. POTS too...

Re:When does the Litigation Start? (3, Insightful)

d3l33t (1106803) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854529)

I for one feel bad for the helpless telecoms. They have done everything in their power provide nothing but exceptional service to customers over the past 30 years, including protecting our privacy and investing in infrastructure ~/sacrasm. Regardless of 'infringing' business models, we should be rejoicing the opportunity to compliment the current, and broken, communication model. By providing an alternative protocol with specific functionality it's not replacing current technology, simply enhancing it. Let's just hope it's not a product of the PR machine.

OK, now what does it do? (1, Redundant)

pestie (141370) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854275)

I realize that this is Slashdot and a certain amount of technical knowledge is assumed, but I don't necessarily keep tabs on every little thing Google says or does. So would someone care to explain, even very briefly, what the hell the Wave protocol is for? Even a few words in a sentence in the summary would have been appreciated.

Re:OK, now what does it do? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28854389)

http://wave.google.com/

Re:OK, now what does it do? (3, Insightful)

jtdennis (77869) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854397)

I've read reviews of it as real time collaboration. Think of it as private e-mail, IM, and document collaboration all in one system.

Re:OK, now what does it do? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28856037)

View the tech demo, it's quite impressive: wave.google.com [google.com].

Re:OK, now what does it do? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28854403)

at the moment its alot like gmail + gtalk + google docs in a unified web UI.

Re:OK, now what does it do? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28854437)

It's "Google's new collaboration and conversation platform", as noted in the summary. And since that phrase is a link in the summary, you can click it to get more info on Wave.

Re:OK, now what does it do? (1)

jolson74 (861893) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854451)

I realize this is Slashdot... but if you would have simply clicked on the first linked article in the summary, you would have found exactly what you are looking for on Ars Technica.

Re:OK, now what does it do? (4, Informative)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854629)

Many people have responded to your post with links, but I know people are really, really, really lazy. So Google Wave is kind of a nifty new communications paradigm designed to replace e-mail, IM, IRC, and other collaboration tools. The basic idea is to create communications centered around a conversation with as many participants as needed, rather than trying to take a two way communication like a letter and expand it to sort of work for more people.

If you're the only person in the conversation (or wave) online, it works like e-mail. As soon as a second person is online at the same time, it works like IM. It is sort of timestamp version controlled so you can rewind conversations and see how the conversation branched and you can embed the conversations in generic Web pages. It's extensible so you can add additional communications to it, and they've added a way to post images and host them as photo galleries.

In short it's new, but similar in ways to IM and e-mail and it's fairly cool, but watching a video makes more sense than reading a lengthy explanation.

Re:OK, now what does it do? (3, Informative)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854647)

It defines a protocol that allows servers to publish documents with threaded conversations, and allow users on different servers to edit those documents and append to the threaded conversations in real-time. It also defines an API that lets developers extend the kind of media that can be placed in the documents, and make documents interactive with the user or other services. It also uses a messaging semantic based on operational transformation, that allows users to browse the complete editing history of any document or thread, and allows agents observing a document to resolve their local state by reading a document as a stream of deltas (it's more complicated than this, but I have yet to wrap my head around OTs completely).

People say it's like email because it lets you do messaging in non-real-time, and has threaded conversations, and documents and media attachments, and it's an open standard. People say it's like IM because conversations are posted to threads in real-time, keystroke-by-keystroke. People say it's like Google Docs (or other such things) because it allows collaborative editing of documents, except this lets you edit the document contemporaneous with other people, since the server protocol merges all updates to the document keystroke-by-keystroke.

Re:OK, now what does it do? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28854691)

If Google plays it right it will be Google's next BIG thing. Check out their vid [youtube.com] - yes, it's about an hour but very interesting throughout, one of the coolest things happens near the end.

It has the potential to revolutionize how people communicate through the internet as it combines features or email, messaging, blogging, social networking and webpages all into a single open source product using open standard protocols. Which basically means is that what this tool is capable of is only limited by the minds of those writing code (i.e. potentially anyone) on it.

Re:OK, now what does it do? (2, Funny)

Tekfactory (937086) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854713)

Whatever you do, don't read this

http://sites.google.com/a/waveprotocol.org/wave-protocol/draft-protocol-spec [google.com]

I tried reading it and its like the South Park episode with the Marklar, only replace Marklar with Wave as the only Noun/Verb in the language.

Its an adressible service like email or newsgroups, users have usernames @ domains and can subscribe to or send content to lists/groups.

It has a collaborative aspect, parts RSS feed/Twitter/Wiki and I think it will be easier to understand when there is more content availble. I do wonder how the providers are supposed to keep these documents like newsgroup retention, with conversations dissappearing after a retentionwindow ends, or like hosting wikis. I don't see where I would download any waves that I was participating in or monitoring, but I'd have to see an implemented client I guess.

Re:OK, now what does it do? (1, Insightful)

Starayo (989319) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854811)

I wish I could use my mod points to mod you a lazy bastard. I mean COME ON, it's a google product. GOOGLE. JUST FUCKING GOOGLE IT!

Write only code? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28854535)

What a variable name...
                                          return org.waveprotocol.wave.protocol.common.internal_static_protocol_ProtocolWaveletDelta_fieldAccessorTable;

Re:Write only code? (2, Informative)

Temporal (96070) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854753)

As indicated in the comment at the top of that file [google.com], that code was generated by the Protocol Buffers [googlecode.com] compiler, protoc. You aren't supposed to edit that -- edit the .proto file [google.com] instead and regenerate. I'm not really sure why they checked the generated code into VCS -- normally only the .proto would be checked in and protoc would be invoked at build time.

miscommuncation? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28854569)

waits for "lips move, but I can't hear what your saying" jokes

Reminds me of Croquet (2, Interesting)

argent (18001) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854619)

It seems to be a different approach to the same problem, with Croquet using distributed synchronization of computation rather than synchronized distribution of updates.

I hope this doesn't catch on. (1, Interesting)

Briden (1003105) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854727)

a neat idea, for collaborative brainstorming or throwaway conversations perhaps, but i hope that nobody is planning on using this for any communication that is mission critical, in it's current form anyway.

just like "clouds", "waves" do not reside on your computer, but rather *out there* somewhere, that you can *probably* get access to if:
-the service is up and functioning properly
-you have the required hardware and software
-there are no connection issues between you and the server

if your internet goes down, suddenly you've lost access to even internal communication at your office, as well as all archives and logs of past communication. Without local storage, you cannot do efficient search and retrieval of your own information.

there are serious privacy issues as well, no doubt google will be surfin the "waves" looking for terms to market to you, but perhaps it is more shady than that even. google has agreed to censorship in foreign markets over the years, does it really make sense to let them hold onto your data in this way?

then again.. it's cool technology, and now that it's being open sourced, it means feasibly you can run your own "waveserver" and mitigate the issues above somewhat.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854801)

If I can look at it on my computer screen, I can tell my computer to make a log of it.

sure you can (2, Insightful)

Briden (1003105) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855517)

but what good would that do you, if it's an ever changing document, like a conversation between multiple people?

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28856039)

DRM

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28854831)

Waves are exactly as local as email is. WFP sits atop XMPP (the protocol that runs Jabber). Waves do not reside "out there"; they reside on your XMPP server. I would expect any organization using Waves to maintain its own XMPP server or 3 (but I have seen stranger things).

WFP isn't perfect, but if you're going to complain about it not residing on your local machine, you'd better be prepared to make exactly the same complaints about email. Personally I think email has proven itself to be a plausible communication medium, even occasionally for mission critical work. WFP has the same potential in a few years time when it's stabilized.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28855451)

So I can save a copy of a conversation locally on my computer and read it without access to the server? If so, then it is indeed exactly like email. If not, sorry, it's not as useful, accessible, and reliable as email.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1, Informative)

pwfffff (1517213) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856099)

Really? You have to ask?

Even if there wasn't a 'Save to Disk' button it's freaking OPEN SOURCE and you could just code your own. Or did you think this was magic data that turns into 0s when it arrives on computer that hasn't been enchanted by the Google wizards?

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (4, Informative)

myxiplx (906307) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854863)

Err, try again. The whole point of wave is that google are open sourcing the spec, and plan to release an open source *server* reference implementation.

The concept of wave servers appears to be similar to that of smtp email. Companies can run their own internal servers, and configure links to the outside world as needed.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (3, Interesting)

religious freak (1005821) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855059)

I think the whole idea of wave is AWESOME. My one question is ... how is Google going to make money off of it???

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (2, Funny)

myxiplx (906307) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855271)

By yet again re-enforcing their brand image as being synonymous with the web.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28855317)

This is an excellent question! Wave is different from Google or Google Mail or Google Talk or Google ... because everything is necessarily encrypted end-to-end on the client side. That makes it rather difficult to pick up advertising keywords :P

Mind you Google does use a web client for its own implementation of Wave, right? If it's all on the web client then maybe Google to pull out some advertising data before it gets encrypted.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (2, Insightful)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855615)

I think the whole idea of wave is AWESOME. My one question is ... how is Google going to make money off of it???

I doubt if Google will make much money off of the wave protocol or message format... Much like SMTP, it'll just kind of be out there for other people to implement.

I'm sure they'll offer a free (ad supported) Wave service however, much like they've got Gmail now... And they'll probably offer a paid subscription to business users, like with Google Apps right now...

Of course, they're spearheading the whole thing... So they could probably get an actual wave server (hardware/software/whatever) to market long before anyone else can. They could sell that, but it doesn't really sound like Google's way of doing things...

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (2, Funny)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856545)

how is Google going to make money off of it???

Keep an eye on the various "Robots" and "Extensions" they'll be offering as services.

Also, destroying the competitive advantage of Exchange and Lotus Notes will have certain long-term strategic benefits.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

mattcasters (67972) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854919)

I hope you do realize that all your complaints apply to e-mail as well. In the case of IMAP/Exchange that even goes for the persistence.
And they also apply to wiki, to IM, etc.
The fact that you can run your own server for your company/organization was actually demoed during the initial Google announcement.
The protocol is open, the source is open.

So why the hostile reaction towards Wave? Where did the knee-jerk come from?

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28854971)

Hear hear, I was about to post the same thing.

OP must be management...

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

Briden (1003105) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855249)

yes i know, did you read the last line of my post?

"it's cool technology, and now that it's being open sourced, it means feasibly you can run your own "waveserver" and mitigate the issues above somewhat."

running your own server would mitigate all those issues, and i think it's good that it's open sourced and available now so people can do this.

or the first line?
"a neat idea, for collaborative brainstorming or throwaway conversations perhaps, but i hope that nobody is planning on using this for any communication that is mission critical, in it's *current form* anyway."

by current form, i mean, hosted on googles waveservers.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855373)

Yeah, but that didn't stop you from writing the rest of your highly negative post. Its like you knew your complaint wasn't valid, but decided to complain anyways.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

Briden (1003105) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855651)

no, it is valid, as it's aimed at the current google service.

the point of my post was basically to say that, trusting google to host your mission critical "waves", is just as insane as trusting gmail, or amazon S3 or any other hosted service to hold your mission critical information.

i'm specifically talking about businesses here. I happily use a gmail account for personal correspondence. I do not use gmail in my corporate office, as it doesn't make sense.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (2, Insightful)

pwfffff (1517213) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856153)

It's not currently a service, so you're point still isn't valid. Yes, they have ONE server up. It's a BETA. An INVITE ONLY beta. Where did you get the idea that someone is putting mission critical things there? Now that this reference implementation is out you can even have your own server running NOW, before Google's even hinted at running their own service.

Troll harder please.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

mattcasters (67972) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856261)

Well, it's getting a bit off-topic, but is hosting anything in the cloud really that insane?
Is your average internal mail or file server better with respect to uptime than Google or Amazon?
Or is your Internet and backup-Internet connection that bad? Would your company survive is it didn't receive any e-mail for a few days? What would the damage be?
Is your local mail server as redundant as the Google gmail servers?

I think these are all valid questions to ask and I think that for a *lot* of companies with a non-backed up Internet connection, non redundant mail server the risks are a lot higher with the local infrastructure.

Personally I think you can perhaps see it a trust concern, not really an availability issue. The evidence is not really there to support it either way.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

crabboy.com (771982) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855669)

Where did the knee-jerk come from?

I'm more interested in knowing how the knee-jerk got modded up...

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

mattcasters (67972) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856311)

FWIW I was actually genuinely interested.

I've been using Android with gmail, maps, calendar and all in the cloud for a month now and I absolutely love it.
It's so much easier and faster to NOT have to download any mail and just keep it on the server.
It's so much more fun to be able to see my calendar on-line wherever I go, edit phone contacts on-line, etc.

I had a different perception of that experience earlier on and it changed completely with the HTC Magic & Android. Hence my request for feedback on the negativity towards Google and/or Wave. If there are any actual negative experiences to share I would still love to hear about it.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

crabboy.com (771982) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856507)

Sorry, wasn't trying to hijack your original post. The OP seemed to be so patently wrong I figured I'd interject a gripe about the mod system sprinkled with an attempt at humor. I agree with you completely about Android; have one as well. :-)

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (3, Informative)

Yogiz (1123127) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855041)

just like "clouds", "waves" do not reside on your computer, but rather *out there* somewhere, that you can *probably* get access to if:
-the service is up and functioning properly
-you have the required hardware and software
-there are no connection issues between you and the server

You can set up your own wave server, just as you can with e-mail.

if your internet goes down, suddenly you've lost access to even internal communication at your office, as well as all archives and logs of past communication. Without local storage, you cannot do efficient search and retrieval of your own information.

Companies can set up their own wave servers and communications between members of the same server will never leave the network.

there are serious privacy issues as well, no doubt google will be surfin the "waves" looking for terms to market to you, but perhaps it is more shady than that even. google has agreed to censorship in foreign markets over the years, does it really make sense to let them hold onto your data in this way?

Yeah, they can - on their own server which will probably become the most popular one but you can use alternate servers to those of Google.

then again.. it's cool technology, and now that it's being open sourced, it means feasibly you can run your own "waveserver" and mitigate the issues above somewhat.

Not somewhat but pretty much equally to e-mail.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855047)

just like "clouds", "waves" do not reside on your computer, but rather *out there* somewhere, that you can *probably* get access to...

So far the only implementation is a Web app. Is there any reason you can't store waves locally using a desktop client when someone writes one?

here are serious privacy issues as well, no doubt google will be surfin the "waves" looking for terms to market to you, but perhaps it is more shady than that even.

Similarly, you shouldn't use e-mail or Jabber for conversation because Google's free implementations are harvested for marketing data?

then again.. it's cool technology, and now that it's being open sourced, it means feasibly you can run your own "waveserver" and mitigate the issues above somewhat.

Even before they open sourced their implementation they had open, published protocols so others can write interoperable implementations. Having an open source reference implementation is obviously a boon to this process though. I see this just like GTalk. It's based upon the well known XMPP protocol and corporate america will probably implement internal, interoperable servers or outsource service from someone and the results will be just as private as e-mail and Jabber servers are now.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28855323)

How is that any different than email?

You can only access email in the very same circumstances, unless you run your own mail server. If only Google would open source the protocol so we could have our own wave server too.... oh wait... they did.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855537)

a neat idea, for collaborative brainstorming or throwaway conversations perhaps, but i hope that nobody is planning on using this for any communication that is mission critical, in it's current form anyway.

Aside from some folks at Google and a few folks who got beta invites, nobody is using it in its current form. It is beta (alpha?) software in its truest form.

just like "clouds", "waves" do not reside on your computer, but rather *out there* somewhere, that you can *probably* get access to if:
-the service is up and functioning properly
-you have the required hardware and software
-there are no connection issues between you and the server

The requirements appear to be bandwidth and a web browser. Nothing more. And with Google Gears, you might not even need bandwidth.

if your internet goes down, suddenly you've lost access to even internal communication at your office, as well as all archives and logs of past communication. Without local storage, you cannot do efficient search and retrieval of your own information.

I'm not certain that anyone will be getting rid of local storage... It is entirely possible that you'll have some kind of offline cache of waves - much like what is done with IMAP. And I'm not certain why you think on-line searching would be any slower than searching a local store... I know Google can process a hell of a lot more data than my desktop can.

there are serious privacy issues as well, no doubt google will be surfin the "waves" looking for terms to market to you, but perhaps it is more shady than that even. google has agreed to censorship in foreign markets over the years, does it really make sense to let them hold onto your data in this way?

then again.. it's cool technology, and now that it's being open sourced, it means feasibly you can run your own "waveserver" and mitigate the issues above somewhat.

The whole point of this project is to develop a completely open communication system - much like what was done with email and SMTP. The message formats and protocols are documented, so you don't have to run any particular piece of software. Exchange, Sendmail, Qmail, whatever... They'll all send and receive email with everyone else.

The idea is that this new "wave" thing will be as open and interoperable as SMTP... So you might very well use Google's hosted wave service... Or you might get a wave account through Yahoo... Or your company might install its own wave server... Or maybe your ISP would provide one...

you can install the server on lan (1)

Tei (520358) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855587)

like a mail server, you can have this installed inside your organization, so any exisiting backup strategy /protection strategy will work.

and off-course, run this "off-line" (withouth internet access).

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28855985)

The first source release of the server is called 'FedOne', i.e. Federation One.

The intent is for anyone that has the need for their own email infrastructure would probably have their own wave infrastructure. It can be intranet or internet depending on you set it up. The clue is in the name :-)

Also, Gears is used even in the current browser client to allow offline browsing, but that isn't quite what you meant.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

That's Unpossible! (722232) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856069)

just like "clouds", "waves" do not reside on your computer, but rather *out there* somewhere, that you can *probably* get access to...

What you're saying makes as much sense as saying you can't get to your mail if you're using IMAP, because IMAP mail is *out there* somewhere.

You clearly have not read any of the technical information about Wave.

Waves are comprised of "Wavelets," the pieces that make up a wave. You could absolutely write a client application that downloaded and cached everything locally, and most clients probably will. I imagine Google itself will have some HTML5 local caching (google gears, etc) to allow you to retrieve existing stuff when offline, as long as you previously synced it up.

I mean, they already have offline Gmail support. Wave is along the same lines.

Wave is absolutely going to catch on. I think in 20 years you're going to be saying the same thing about email that we're saying now about things like Gopher vs. Web.

The real news here is not that it's open sourced -- Google said that from the beginning. Everything about Wave will be completely open. The news here is that there is some code shipping.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

sam.haskins (1106069) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856177)

Well, it's *out there* pretty much in the same sense that newsgroups were out there... Or, like IMAP email is out there... Given that the Google client supports gears, it doesn't even go down if your internet goes out, so, I think we're all good.

Re:I hope this doesn't catch on. (1)

magister159 (993682) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856771)

While the OP is obviously misinformed, is there an offline spec in the wave protocol? Does there need to be? I could all be handled by the client I assume.

It's too early, but... (3, Insightful)

SebaSOFT (859957) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854777)

I think that every web developer that misses this out, will pay it hard.
Experts say that true innovations are hard to detect. I would say, keep an eye on this, or you will regret it.

Re:It's too early, but... (1)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855177)

Experts say that true innovations are hard to detect.

What a bizarre statement. Who are these experts? What is their area of expertise? When did they say this? Are you just trying to use vague language to give extra gravity to your statement?

I would contend that innovation is relatively easy to detect, while innovation that will make a lot of money is hard to detect.

Re:It's too early, but... (2, Funny)

SebaSOFT (859957) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856949)

I've recently attended to a Soft skills workshop on Innovation. So I would say that there are experts that study innovation over the years. When I say detect I mean not just happen to be in front of an innovative idea, but to actually detect it as a game-changing, so yeas, they are rarely to be adopted.

SPAM control? (1, Interesting)

tburt11 (517910) | more than 4 years ago | (#28854781)

I read the description on wikipedia. I do not see where this replacement for email and IM has accomodations for SPAM control. Can anybody give a synopsys on how WAVE will protect me from unwanted commercial solicitation?

Re:SPAM control? (1)

istartedi (132515) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855105)

I'm watching the demo now. Obviously it can't stop spam when it's used as regular e-mail. However, it appears that once the wave is established, conversation can be limited to whoever you invite. Also Bob and Alice may know my e-mail address, but they don't know that I'm having a conversation with Cathy, or where I'm having it. There's probably some potential there too. It seems like it would be difficult to spam a conversation which has a lifetime of perhaps a few days.

Re:SPAM control? (1)

jesset77 (759149) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856601)

One way in which Wave > SMTP right off the bat is in user authentication.

If I wish to post in a wave which has been opened to public invite, or if I wish to start a new wave and invite people, I must first have an account on a wave server somewhere.

Sure, the wave server could be an ameture one, but when there is abuse other wavemasters (forgive me Sheppard!) can assign responsibility directly to the rogue server for allowing a spammer on board, who then can trace the matter back to an unspoofable abuser on their own network. Spam detection technology perfected in the SMTP jungle can be used as early warning of abuse which becomes much harder to replicate and repeat.

Furthermore, gateways from wave to Twitter, SMS, SMTP, and other IM services would need to be outfitted with their own spam filtering technologies to clean the crud they introduce into the system (which, if they do a bad job the gateway bot itself, acting with no more power than a simple user, would suffer diminished reputation).

Don't confuse me with an expert or anything, but this is simply how I extrapolate the differences between this protocol and the failures of SMTP.

Re:SPAM control? (1)

Braino420 (896819) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856683)

Can anybody give a synopsys on how WAVE will protect me from unwanted commercial solicitation?

From what I gather from their wave-protocol-verification [waveprotocol.org] whitepaper, it seems that wave has built-in callback verification [wikipedia.org].

Alot of the spam we see today in email comes from forged sender addresses. Email wasn't originally designed to verify sender addresses and alot of hacks have been developed to try to fix that but none of them are perfect (as you can see from the wikipedia article). Google Wave should do better since it was built-in from the ground up.

There are other ways to send out spam, but those seem to be easy to blacklist since they will all point back to the spammer's address.

This seems to have been covered during "Federation Day", but I haven't been able to find anything that was actually said during it...

Money? (1)

religious freak (1005821) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855083)

Anyone know how on earth Google expects to make money off of this thing? It looks amazing, but how do you make money off of this if it's open sourced, free, and took a ton of development time to build (and presumably support in the future)?

Re:Money? (2, Funny)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855265)

Anyone know how on earth Google expects to make money off of this thing? It looks amazing, but how do you make money off of this if it's open sourced, free, and took a ton of development time to build (and presumably support in the future)?

Obviously they plan to make money the same way they do with GMail. They'll offer a free in the cloud service to normal users and either provide ads alongside the client and/or robotically harvest the conversations to better target online ads to their users. They might even sell corporate Wave hosting services to corporations or sell servers with it pre-installed and ready to go to corporations.

Re:Money? (1)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855723)

Anyone know how on earth Google expects to make money off of this thing? It looks amazing, but how do you make money off of this if it's open sourced, free, and took a ton of development time to build (and presumably support in the future)?

Well, look at DNS and SMTP and HTTP... Those are open, documented, universally available protocols. Anyone can implement them. I don't know how much anybody made simply by inventing SMTP... But plenty of people have cashed in on it since then.

Some people rent hosted mailservers... Other people sell the server software... Other folks sell support for free mailserver software... And then there's all sorts of add-on things like spam filtering and web front-ends and email clients and everything else... The protocol itself might be too open to cash in on, but all the assorted tools that make use of that protocol are making people plenty of money.

I'm sure Google will offer some kind of hosted Wave service. There'll probably be a free (ad supported) version as well as a paid (Google Apps) version. And they'll likely be one of the first to have a functioning Wave service, so I'm sure there'll be lots of people rushing to try it out.

If they wanted to they could probably roll up a piece of hardware or software to sell to people, but that doesn't really seem to be the way Google operates.

Re:Money? (2, Funny)

Krneki (1192201) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855871)

Google is winning because they are as smart on technical stuff as they are on getting money from advertising without pissing of users.

Make no mistake, whoever is in charge of ad marketing in Google is a pure genius.

Re:Money? (1, Funny)

js_sebastian (946118) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856195)

Perhaps they make money by commoditizing some of the products of their potential competitors in the online advertisement arena. Social networking sites, blogs, messaging, email, etc, can all be reimplemented in a cool, interoperable way on top of wave. If this takes off, it will take a bite out of closed playgrounds such as facebook et al.

Personal opinion. (1)

Yogiz (1123127) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855205)

First of all, anyone who has not yet seen the video of the presentation, I recommend you to do that [google.com].

I'm usually the first guy who worries about privacy when using Google's systems and I do not buy easily into new fads. However this time I think Google is on the right track.

I can easily think of tens and tens of use cases for the waves. You can aggregate news, RSS, e-mail, IM, twitter, blogs, forums and comments all into one place and not have to worry about having to open up five different clients and find tens of different sites every time you want to drop a comment. But this is not the main thing that will make Wave popular. Wave will become popular, because it is independent of Google. Every company, every ISP and even every small group of people who might not even want their waves to leave their LAN can set up their own wave server. The protocol is open. I do not know about you guys but this time I have pretty high expectations.

Re:Personal opinion. (1)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855417)

Wave will become popular, because it is independent of Google. Every company, every ISP and even every small group of people who might not even want their waves to leave their LAN can set up their own wave server.

I'd say Wave and Jabber are in similar situations in this regard. Both are open (even sharing the same protocol partly) and people do run their own Jabber servers, but as with Jabber there are already entrenched server vendors and service providers for communication and that's a lot of momentum to overcome. I'd like to think that major vendors like Microsoft, Apple, Sun, AOL, and Yahoo will all jump on the Wave bandwagon and expand their existing clients and services to use it interoperably with Google and a magical new era of efficient and cool communication will emerge. That said, when Google got behind Jabber with GTalk I hoped for the same thing, and it is has been slow in coming. Apple jumped on board partly dragging AOL with them. Corporations jumped on board in limited but noticeable numbers. Everyone else decided they would rather stick with their existing business plans and technologies and that interoperability was not in their best interest. Wave brings a bit more to the table, especially as it will work as an embedded HTML5 application in Web pages, but there are a whole lot of gatekeepers to block the way here.

I do not know about you guys but this time I have pretty high expectations.

I've become a cynic. There is hope, but I'm not as optimistic as you are.

Jabber vs Wave (1)

js_sebastian (946118) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856263)

I'd say Wave and Jabber are in similar situations in this regard. Both are open (even sharing the same protocol partly) and people do run their own Jabber servers, but as with Jabber there are already entrenched server vendors and service providers for communication and that's a lot of momentum to overcome

Jabber is a nice open IM protocol. So it's interoperable, but other than that what big advantages does it have over Skype, MSN, etc? Wave OTH is a totally new concept and, if people like it, and if the entrenched players do not provide it, they will lose users pretty fast. Also you can easily implement a wave robot that basically acts as a proxy to wave for your IM of choice (so long as the IM protocol is public or has been successfully reverse engineered)

Re:Jabber vs Wave (1)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856791)

Jabber is a nice open IM protocol. So it's interoperable, but other than that what big advantages does it have over Skype, MSN, etc?

As you mention jabber is open and interoperable which addresses the biggest problem people have with IM today. But you can make the same argument with regard to Wave. Why not just use your existing and already in use e-mail, IM, and photo services in conjunction? I think Wave does bring some compelling features to the table, but I don't think compelling features are enough in our current walled garden climate.

...if people like it, and if the entrenched players do not provide it, they will lose users pretty fast.

How? If it isn't not pre-installed and easy to use from the default setup on people's computers and phones, it won't go anywhere. Who's going to switch to it if their friends are still using AIM or MSN and they won't be able to talk to them anymore? Users might like the features of Wave, but I don't think that will trump access to actual people. There might be gateways, but unless those are already set up to work with the services offered over the Web, they might as well not exist for 90% of people.

The real hopes I have for Google Wave are the Web service embedded in pages becoming a popular tool and partnerships Google makes with other companies to get this implemented for existing IM services (AOL IM via a partnership like they did with Jabber) and software providers (built into ichat as Jabber was). Beyond that the normal person isn't going to decide to abandon their existing IM and e-mail client/service and walk away from their contacts and established workflow until Google gains significant traction and market share with Wave. That's the tricky part for Google.

OT? (1)

onemorechip (816444) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855293)

At the risk of sounding off-topic, that "Operational Transform (OT)" in the protocol is too close to "Operating Thetan (OT)" for my comfort.

My feelings on Wave (1, Insightful)

recoiledsnake (879048) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855515)

Wave is surely an interesting concept and application, but if there's any web app that just makes you want to scream for a native implementation, it's Wave. There's no way even the fastest web browser running on a Quad core or Octo core with 8 gigs of RAM will leave you satisfied with the experience. Just as I typed that, my browser froze in Slashdot.2.0 for like five seconds.

Why is Google spoiling good concepts by tying them to the browser exclusively? They just need to develop for the three major platforms, Windows, Linux and OS X. And open source it so that the enthusiasts of other OSes can port them. And they can still have a web implementation for people on other platforms or those who do not want to install a native app.

Re:My feelings on Wave (2, Interesting)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855901)

Wave is surely an interesting concept and application, but if there's any web app that just makes you want to scream for a native implementation, it's Wave.

I think focusing on making one cross platform Web application that can be embedded into Web pages is probably the most effective use of their resources. No one is going to bother downloading a client unless there is some significant use of Wave first or it is being deployed in a corporate/large organization setting. Google needs to get it out there and a Web app makes a lot of sense as a first attempt.

Why is Google spoiling good concepts by tying them to the browser exclusively? They just need to develop for the three major platforms, Windows, Linux and OS X.

Again, I disagree. For geeks, maybe this would make sense if Google had the resources to accomplish it at the same time as creating the Web application, but for normal users this isn't going to happen. Most users just don't install things like this or they'd have a Jabber client by now. How many people with Jabber clients right now do you think have ichat compared to all the other clients out there. What Google needs to do is push this as a Web app and then partner with other companies to get them to develop native clients to be pre-installed on their respective platforms and Web services. By open sourcing the Web client Google potentially gets AOL, Yahoo, and MS to expand their chat and e-mail clients both on the Web and the desktop. By talking to Apple they might get this on OS X and/or the iPhone by default. Someone will write a native Linux client no matter what Google does. There will eventually be clients for Windows and OS X, but very few people will use them if they aren't pre-installed with their computer or unless Wave really takes off on the Web first.

Re:My feelings on Wave (2, Insightful)

xororand (860319) | more than 4 years ago | (#28855929)

I definitely agree with you. A rich client, maybe implemented with C++ and Qt4, would be very useful. The demo video actually shows a native command-line client for Wave. If that's possible, you should be able to develop any kind of interface. If Google doesn't release a thick client, maybe that's a business opportunity right at your doorstep.

Re:My feelings on Wave (1)

That's Unpossible! (722232) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856097)

I've used Wave on a semi-decent iMac, and it works just fine, even in beta without them ramping up on their end yet. So I'm not sure why you think the way you do about its speed.

But Google is not tying this concept to the browser at all. It's completely open and you can absolutely implement a wave client natively if you want, and people will do that.

Re:My feelings on Wave (1)

Achoi77 (669484) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856115)

Why is Google spoiling good concepts by tying them to the browser exclusively? They just need to develop for the three major platforms, Windows, Linux and OS X.

Perhaps the team doesn't want to have to constantly maintain 3 seperate codebases for the same app whenever an OS goes thru a major revision.

Or perhaps because they want users to use it "right now" instead of having them go thru the install process considering almost every machine has a browser on it.

Re:My feelings on Wave (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28856223)

You bumbling fools! Google is giving us a gift! We can go out and code our own os native wave client, and sell it! Imagine being able to get into the email client business when email was still new in this world. Well, now we can! Google didn't keep it for themselves, they gave it to us. Is this slashdot or isn't it?

Re:My feelings on Wave (2, Funny)

crazybilly (947714) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856345)

Isn't that part of the reason it's open source? So that you (or somebody you pay) can build a native client for it?

I tend to agree--I don't particularly care to have my email/IM/collaboration software all tied up into my browser (particularly in FF or IE). I want something that does one thing and does it well. But if the protocol is open, as far as I can tell (note: IANAD(eveloper)) there's nothing stopping anybody from building a nice lean, writing-focused Wave client.

Re:My feelings on Wave (3, Insightful)

jesset77 (759149) | more than 4 years ago | (#28856811)

Why develop for three platforms and let geeks port that to many when you can develop as open source for one platform (DHTML) and actively encourage the geeks to port that to 3, and then to many?

Hell, if I worked at Google the last thing I would want would be to get involved in GNOME/KDE turf wars, piss off apple fanbois if it doesn't look precisely like a macintosh app or really develop anything for the Windows desktop. Like, ever. So instead, Google puts it on the Web where everyone can get at it from any modern platform (even/especially smartphones, and if you want a native copy then you or some hobbiests are free to write one (and thereafter support it :P)

Seriously, do you recall their last attempt at a Jabber desktop application, Gtalk? It even worked well, but then they dropped it like a bad habit in favor of the web-based version.

Additionally, one of their main design goals was to make Wave conversations embeddable into web pages. They would like this to be used for CMS, to replace forums, to replace blog comments, essentially they wish people to mash up Wave content with their own web pages. If they focused their deployment first to the desktop, they would miss out on that opportunity.

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