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The Pirate Bay Is Being Sued Again

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the beating-a-dead-horse dept.

The Courts 224

BuR4N writes with news that 10 US movie companies have filed a suit in Swedish civil court seeking to shut down The Pirate Bay and impose a fine on its three former operators, Fredrik Neij, Gottfrid Svartholm Warg and Peter Sunde, as well as the site's bandwidth supplier. Speaking to TorrentFreak, Sunde said, "It's another day in the whole soap opera of TPB. They're suing us in Stockholm where none of us live. They're suing us over something which we don't own. I think the most funny part of the whole suit is that they just write: 'Reservella is a company run by Fredrik Neij' — out of 40 pages of paper that's all they have to say, and it's so wrong. They have no paperwork to back it up." Meanwhile, plans for The Pirate Bay to be sold to Global Gaming X seem to have stalled.

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Surprise Surprise. (5, Insightful)

gubers33 (1302099) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866019)

More big media companies going after money. Maybe it is just my thought but why can't American companies just bother the Americans and not everyone else. This is why people hate us!

Re:Surprise Surprise. (4, Insightful)

jonnythan (79727) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866125)

Well, they're not really just "American" companies when their products are bought, used, and viewed all around the world.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (5, Insightful)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866207)

True. But didn't the media companies attempt to force the Swedish government to change their laws to fit said media companies' business model? *That* is far beyond what should be permitted.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866311)

They did it in America why not the world?

Re:Surprise Surprise. (4, Informative)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866453)

Not when you live under fascism...... ooops, I mean "corporatism" where the government represents the corporate lobbyists, rather than the people. Sweden's leaders are just following the path of least resistance, which is to say "yes" to whoever donates the most money to their next election campaign.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (2)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866719)

So you are saying TPB just didn't bribe^Wsupport the politicians enough?

Re:Surprise Surprise. (2)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867185)

So you are saying TPB just didn't bribe^Wsupport the politicians enough?

They have their own political party (Piratpartiet [wikipedia.org] ), so no. They just don't have enough of their members in power yet (1 potential member of European parliament conditioned on whether the Lisbon Treaty is ratified).

Re:Surprise Surprise. (4, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867341)

Yeah basically.

Plus piratebay doesn't have enough money to outspend the billions the MAFIAA and other megacorps spread liberally to politicians' reelection campaigns, so even if piratebay lobbied it would be for null: - The politicians will listen to the biggest contributors, not the small ones. Isn't corporatism fun?

I for one do Not welcome our corporate overlords.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (4, Insightful)

easyTree (1042254) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866787)

In the wondrous future which awaits, every legal and valid activity will thankfully be taxed by our glorious leaders so that they may better protect us from ourselves.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (2)

DrLang21 (900992) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867495)

I thought this was already complete. Sales tax, gas tax, entertainment tax, property tax, income tax, estate tax... what are we missing here? Hell I even have to pay tax to park my car in a national forest and go hiking.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (1)

jerep (794296) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866899)

I thought the government WAS a private lobby, the millitary a way for private banks to make more money off war and debt, the media their public relations and the masses of entertainments a way to keep us too busy to notice how badly we're getting raped by the other institutions.. I must've misread a memo or something.

He who has the gold rules (5, Insightful)

Brain-Fu (1274756) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866661)

"Intellectual Property" (sic) has just become the most valuable thing on the planet. So, naturally enough, the wealthier portion of humanity wants to own and control most of it.

It is also "abundant," (can be replicated infinitely, by anyone, at zero cost).

So, as we have seen before, the wealthy destroy this abundance by passing laws to create artificial scarcity. They have every incentive to do this.

The flippant public attitude that TPB is showing will not protect them from the wrath of the rich.

I will add....America has very few exports now. IP is basically it. So, it is in the interest of America's wealthy to impose strict IP laws (and hence artificial scarcity) all over the planet.

It isn't that they refuse to listen to reason....it is that they are following their obvious incentives to their logical conclusions. Expect more. Much more.

Re:He who has the gold rules (4, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867271)

>>>It is also "abundant," (can be replicated infinitely, by anyone, at zero cost).

You really hit the nail on the head with that sentence. Once a book, song, or movie exists, it can be mass-produced at zero cost. It's the ultimate product where the "economy of scale" has no limit. It's an infinite value.

For example if Disney could convince every person on earth to buy "Fantasia" from itunes.com, they would have made 6 billion customers times ($10 minus $5 for apple's cut) == $40 billion in profit. And every time a new baby is born, Disney gains a new customer, and they can replicate Fantasia for even more money.

Pure profit.
No cost.

No wonder businessmen are falling all over themselves to protect their exclusive distribution privilege, and kill bittorrent.

Except that.... (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867409)

You really hit the nail on the head with that sentence. Once a book, song, or movie exists, it can be mass-produced at zero cost. It's the ultimate product where the "economy of scale" has no limit. It's an infinite value... For example if Disney could convince every person on earth to buy "Fantasia" from itunes.com ..... No cost..

Except that, Fantasia, with its hand drawn cells, is not exactly the kind of movie that one is going to just whip up in their spare time. Many movies are hideously expensive to make.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (3, Insightful)

tnk1 (899206) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866935)

I am not on their side, but why would they *not* try and change Swedish laws though normal lobbying methods? It's not like merely trying to change laws is supposed to be some sort of nefarious activity, even if it is only being done for your own benefit.

These companies sell stuff in Sweden, and more importantly, there is a big fat nest of so-called "pirates" there. So, it's not like they lack standing in pursuing these cases due to certain trade agreements. According to their mindset, some of them might even actually believe that this is costing them money. So why would they just say, "oh it's in Sweden, I guess we can't do anything about it, despite these things called treaties. We wouldn't want to be labelled imperialists or anything."

What should happen is that they are allowed to try, and then they should fail on the merits. It's not like they have a Marine Exepditionary Force and a Carrier Battle Group waiting off the coast to enforce the will of these companies. There are probably more than a few Swedes that even sympathize with them.

I think it's important to not start getting so wrapped up in our own viewpoint that we forget that our adversaries can act in a legitimate manner too.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (1)

elashish14 (1302231) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867431)

It goes far beyond IP too. I have heard tell of agreements where authorities must make x number of arrests for drug possession (namely marijuana) in certain European countries in order to maintain favorable trade relations. Can't recall how recent this is, but the is doing it for Christ's sake! So then who's going to stop the private groups too?

Re:Surprise Surprise. (2, Insightful)

fooslacker (961470) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867445)

True. But didn't the media companies attempt to force the Swedish government to change their laws to fit said media companies' business model? *That* is far beyond what should be permitted.

Not exactly. They tried to get the government to change the law but "forcing" usually involves guns and missiles. I pretty much hate the megacorps but they don't have private armies and they don't attack countries to make money so I suggest we not overstate our position which in turn minimizes the legitimacy of it.

What they did was lobby governments and apply financial pressure. That seems reasonable for a corporation even if I don't like the results.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (1)

Tellarin (444097) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866927)

It does not work like this.

If they are going to pursue the idea of licensing content for distribution and broadcast regionally, than it is up to their licensees to go sue whoever they think should be sued. The original companies should just shut up or sue their licensees for not protecting their imaginary property.

Or they could give up artificially restricting the distribution and then act like global players.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (3, Funny)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866133)

More big media companies going after money. Maybe it is just my thought but why can't American companies just bother the Americans and not everyone else. This is why people hate us!

This is why people hate us? I thought it was because we peed on their rug.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (4, Funny)

theJML (911853) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866329)

Well, that rug did really tie the room together.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (1)

castorvx (1424163) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866605)

Shut the fuck up, Donny!

Re:Surprise Surprise. (1)

kensan (682362) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867371)

Let's hope TPB have a better plan than to hand over their whites as ransom money...

Re:Surprise Surprise. (5, Insightful)

Kratisto (1080113) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866137)

Quiet, you! As long as they're distracted by the Swedes less poor American college students will be sued.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (1)

gubers33 (1302099) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866167)

HAHA! Touche my friend, I would mod this up if I hadn't already posted.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (4, Funny)

ZeroExistenZ (721849) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866585)

I have modpoints, I'll mod this up!

Re:Surprise Surprise. (1)

jerep (794296) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866727)

But then more poor swedes college students will be sued.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866197)

Actually most people love our movies/tv. Some countries even have laws limiting the amount of American TV that can be shown per day because it was overpowering locally produced content.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (3, Insightful)

SirEel (1604445) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866491)

I find it interesting that so many people like american tv so much, I can never see the attraction of bad actors and poor plots even when the show does have an un usefully large budget. Of course, being british, I am going to claim that Doctor Who is the best tv series ever, even when the originals had wobbly cardboard sets and being alien mostly meant wearing funny clothes. Good times.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866367)

Well, actually people hate the americans because they put pineapple on pizzas.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866489)

Wouldn't you?

Re:Surprise Surprise. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28867077)

Hell, that's why I hate America too, and I'm American.

Goddammed pineapples on pizza.

"Oh, why don't we get it "Hawaiian-style"? Tee hee!"

Bastards. I've got a pineapple for you, right here. Bend over and I'll give you some "Hawaiian-style" attention.

Let's get this straight. You don't put damned fruit on a pizza. Fruit does not belong on a pizza. It's fruit. Fruits belong in Jello, cakes, and California

Now, get off my lawn.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866465)

If someone were to facilitate stealing something you created, wouldn't you want to go after whomever was helping to do that, no matter where they were located?

Re:Surprise Surprise. (2, Informative)

easyTree (1042254) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866831)

If someone were to facilitate stealing something you created, wouldn't you want to go after whomever was helping to do that, no matter where they were located?

Copying != stealing*.

(*) This needs to be a sticky; preferably on the inside of everyone's eyelids.

Re:Surprise Surprise. (3, Informative)

Vovk (1350125) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867161)

In English law, theft was codified into a statutory offence in the Theft Act 1968 which defines it as:
"A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it". (Section 1)

Victoria - Australia North and south
Intention to permanently deprive - defined at s.73(12) as treating property as it belongs to the accused, rather than the owner.

Canada
person steals a thing if he or she takes or converts it fraudulently, without colour of right and with intent to deprive the owner of it, either permanently or temporarily.

There's a pattern forming here. I'm fairly ceratin US law would be similar, but theft is defined on a state level so i'd rather not post them all. Copying leaves the original owner with whatever they had. No intent to deprive the owner of use exists.

America - We do take out, and now delivery too! (1)

davegravy (1019182) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866565)

Didn't you know? Secretly everyone wants to be American, and part of the fun/culture of being American is being sued by large corporations. Now you don't even have to come to America to experience this, America will come to you!

Re:America - We do take out, and now delivery too! (1)

jerep (794296) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866781)

You make it sound like america is a trip into an amusement park where no matter what happens, you lose.

Id much rather live outside and have the circus come to my local town, so I can ignore it and stay home doing useful stuff, like downloading movies and music while coding my way through world domination.
When you live in america, you tend to forget you live at the circus and it becomes reality, then you begin to think paris hilton has talent and american idol is a really great show.

Re:America - We do take out, and now delivery too! (1)

easyTree (1042254) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866851)

rofl.

Where do I sign to get my mexican slaves? .. and will you send them by airmail?

Re:Surprise Surprise. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28867449)

People hate us (American's) for going after them for stealing our movies? People also hate people that steal their money with fake emails and that happens from countries from all over the world. So we might as well hate everyone. Hate the practice, not the people.

The US is seeking money within the EU? (4, Funny)

BlueKitties (1541613) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866033)

I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the EU imposes a fine on these movie companies for anti-competitive behavior.

3 strikes law (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866165)

I am all for a 3 strikes law against malicious ISPs and media corporations.

Re:The US is seeking money within the EU? (2, Interesting)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866229)

I hope so. I'm an American and I think the EU needs to come down on our movie/record companies.

Re:The US is seeking money within the EU? (2, Interesting)

lorenlal (164133) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866437)

Help us EU! You're our only hope! No.. seriously.. Our system of checks and balances resulted in lobbyists writing the checks, and the executive branches appointing justices that fit their political desires. It's pretty sad that we let the record companies tell legislature and the judiciary that it's okay for them to investigate without probable cause, sue citizens into oblivion with numbers that have no grounds in reality, and then turn around and complain that they don't make enough money after screwing the artists.

Re:The US is seeking money within the EU? (2, Insightful)

benjfowler (239527) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866635)

I've got news for you. The EU are even bigger bitches to Big Content than the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law [wikipedia.org]

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, folks. When they're not allowed to indulge in their scummy rent-seeking in the US, they'll try it on in Europe, hoping to set some dangerous precedents with which to further erode our rights.

Big Content doesn't generate anywhere near as many jobs as they claim , their products are mostly garbage, and they contribute very little to the cultural life of the countries they infest. And they demand privileged treatment all the time, whilst attacking our rights as citizens.

No corporate welfare for Big Content!

Re:The US is seeking money within the EU? (0, Offtopic)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866655)

I still believe the next World War will between the European Union and the United States, and the spark will be over economic control of markets..... just as happened with Carthage and Rome (both democracies, but both desiring to be number one economically).

The U.S. won't want to lose control over its european hegemony (see current lawsuit against piratebay and other euro-businesses), and the E.U. won't want to permanently cede control of its economy or businesses to a foreign nation (see lawsuit against the american microsoft), so relations will gradually degrade until war breaks-out circa 2050 or 2060 A.D.

Re:The US is seeking money within the EU? (2, Funny)

spyrochaete (707033) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867141)

I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the EU imposes a fine on these movie companies for anti-competitive behavior.

That's a great point! The Pirate Bay should update their site so that it only works on IE! That ought to incur the wrath of the EU.

Sunde, bloody Sunde (1, Troll)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866053)

You'd think that they'd have learned their lesson from the last trial to just keep their mouths shut.

But like has been their style since the days they began getting legal threats, these people just can't seem to shut up for their own good.
http://thepiratebay.org/legal [thepiratebay.org]

There's no debtors' prison anymore, so at least they have that going for them.

Re:Sunde, bloody Sunde (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866193)

Why the fuck should they respect letters from companies that think USA law applies to all world. USA are not the policemen of the world. This is a kind of mentality that is extended to USA companies. While I acknowledge not everyone thinks like that in USA, the truth is the major population thinks like that, and the worst is that they are supported by USA external politics.
I think this letters should maintain public, and most of all, they should be publicized to show the ignorance and the lack of sovereign respect to other countries.
Start fucking respect the sovereign of other countries. Most of them know better than you, and it's your practices and customs that are weird to the rest of the world.

Re:Sunde, bloody Sunde (2, Informative)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866247)

Start fucking respect the sovereign of other countries. Most of them know better than you, and it's your practices and customs that are weird to the rest of the world.

I suppose you're being sarcastic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay_trial [wikipedia.org]

The Pirate Bay trial was a joint criminal and civil prosecution in Sweden of four individuals charged for promoting the copyright infringement of others with the torrent tracking website The Pirate Bay.

And for the results...

Peter Sunde, Fredrik Neij, Gottfrid Svartholm and Carl Lundström were all found guilty and sentenced to serve one year in prison and pay a fine of 30 million SEK (app. 2.7 million or USD 3.5 million).

Re:Sunde, bloody Sunde (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866395)

While my previous post was not specifically to you(I just pick on the point that you wrote), I will answer to you.

I'm not being sarcastic. It doesn't matter if the decision is wrong or right. It's their problem to solve. Every countries have problems, and ultimately it's up to them to solve them. Not up to another country to intervene in what it thinks it's the better solution..

Re:Sunde, bloody Sunde (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866449)

Of course, not a single letter came from the government of the United States, so it's pretty clear you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

So go suck a dick.
kthxbai

Re:Sunde, bloody Sunde (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866627)

No my good friend troll. If you want to do some trolling you might do at my level. From my previous post:

This is a kind of mentality that is extended to USA companies. While I acknowledge not everyone thinks like that in USA, the truth is the major population thinks like that, and the worst is that they are supported by USA external politics.

Let me be more clear. It's the external policies of the USA that back up this kind of mentality.

And by the way. Go suck dicks.

Re:Sunde, bloody Sunde (1)

easyTree (1042254) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866999)

It's their problem to solve. Every countries have problems, and ultimately it's up to them to solve them. Not up to another country to intervene in what it thinks it's the better solution..

I think you're being overly harsh. Put yourself in the position of the guy with the cigar behind the desk at evil-corporate-conglomerate-hq. If you had a whole government on your payroll, wouldn't *you* use it as a business tool? Otherwise, it's just wasteful.

So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866069)

When is the webcast?

Re:So... (1)

Flea of Pain (1577213) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866617)

And will it be available as a torrent?

Geniuses or Morons (5, Insightful)

bryan1945 (301828) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866107)

The 'content' companies are either geniuses or morons in how they throw lawsuits out like last year's fashions. If some stick, win! If not, raise prices or sue another grandma. I don't know Swedish law or how the court system works, but from the summary (no, I did not RTFs) this sounds like a wild shot in the dark.

I do not believe in piracy, but I also do not believe in the 'content' companies policies, rules, or regulations. Exactly why do we still need region coding on DVDs? At least I still have my local library to rent (for free, well, except for local taxes) books.

Re:Geniuses or Morons (1)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866269)

People that see 'piracy' as wrong, but support libraries always seemed to be confused to me. Unless your stance is that the law is the law, right wrong or otherwise, you should always follow the law, and it should never be questioned, how can you be against piracy, yet support the distribution of other peoples works without their consent?

Re:Geniuses or Morons (2, Funny)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866577)

Calling it piracy was a massive mistake.
Piracy sounds totally bad ass, second only to Ninjas. White label burned discs, labelled in sharpie are cooler than the Fonz.

They are never going to get rid of this image now. Here is an anti piracy video [youtube.com] for your enjoyment.

Re:Geniuses or Morons (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866809)

Simple.

People feel most-compfortable with the status quo, and that includes copyrighted works but with an exception for libraries. Yes it's illogical but that's how it's "always" been. Of course one wonders why a City Library is allowed to buy a book, loan it out physically to thousands of people, but not do the same digitally. Hmmmm.

Grandparent poster wrote:
>>>>>they throw lawsuits out like last year's fashions. If some stick, win! If not, raise prices or sue another grandma.
>>>

That's because there's no punishment for bringing a case, wasting years of government resources in court, and then suddenly dropping the case when it appears to be going south. And there should be. Any case brought by a megacorporation should require it be taken to completion, else the filer will have to pay a fine to compensate the State for its time/expenses.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? (1)

Savior_on_a_Stick (971781) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867055)

A library purchases X copies of a work to loan to their members.

Piracy involves buying one or zero copies, then replicating them.

Do you really not see the difference?

Re:Are you being deliberately obtuse? (1)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867417)

A library purchases X copies and supplies it to Y people so that the Y people don't pay the creator.

Piracy involves a non-library purchasing X copies and supplying it to Y people so that the Y people don't pay the creator

No, I don't see the difference. Certainly you are not going to claim that it is the 'replicating' part that is wrong. You can't seriously be claiming that a library lending out a copy has any less impact on the sales of media than Joe Bluebeard replicating a copy for his pal. In both cases, both people get to use the media and in both cases one is not paying the creator.

I am thinking that you seem to fall into the confused category.

Re:Geniuses or Morons (1)

zwei2stein (782480) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866543)

Exactly why do we still need region coding on DVDs?

To let them make more money obviously. Set price for each market to be different and reap optimum profit from each. Its not dissimilar from different voltages/socket shapes or NTSC/PAL tv format difference. Product locked to market and thus preventing it from competing with cheaper itself in different market.

Obviously, this is at huge cost to customers. It should be outlawed, but i guess as long as people can pirate stuff and get around it, noone will care enough to go into streets and protest loudly or write to senators.

See, this is where content companies win: they get away pulling all sorts of crap because techie people who care can get around it easily and nontechhie people don't care.

Re:Geniuses or Morons (1)

benjfowler (239527) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866775)

Big Content are just abusing the legal system as a weapon. They don't care if they win or lose, because it costs a lot of money to defend against a lawsuit in most countries.

In other contexts, they're known as SLAPP suits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation [wikipedia.org]

More examples of the dinosaurs in Big Content propping up their failed business models through the legal system and coopting lawmakers.

You can't do that... (3, Interesting)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866119)

They keep throwing arond "They're suing us over something which we don't own" - if I make alot of money through a company I own which is involved with illegal behaviour - selling the company does NOT strip you free from all crimes.

Yeah, they're taking alot of flak from just about everyone around the world, but only because they're so smug about what they're trying to get away with. They're just getting what they deserve.

Re:You can't do that... (0, Troll)

fulldecent (598482) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866213)

>>They keep throwing arond "They're suing us over something which we don't own" - if I make alot of money through a company I own which is involved with illegal behaviour - selling the company does NOT strip you free from all crimes.

Fail.

Please scroll up [slashdot.org] and read the entire summary this time.

Re:You can't do that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866349)

if I make alot of money

It's generally best not to take legal commentary from people who say "alot".

Re:You can't do that... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866463)

if I make alot of money through a company I own which is involved with illegal behaviour - selling the company does NOT strip you free from all crimes.

"involved with illegal behaviour" is an interesting phrase.

It doesn't quite say that what TPB itself is doing is illegal, does it? Only that it's "involved" - a pretty nebulous term really, when you think about it. Is what THEY are doing illegal? That's the question.

But for you, being "involved" with illegal behaviour is apparently illegal itself already, or at least enough to be held responsible for that illegal behaviour of others you're involved with. Moreover, you apparently have no qualms about equating "illegal behaviour" with "crime", either, even though the two are quite different (all crimes are illegal, but not vice versa - or are you a convicted felon just because you once parked your car in a no-parking zone and got a ticket?).

But none of this matters, anyway.

What does matter is what the law says, and it's wholly unclear to me that TPB broke any Swedish laws; and not everything that is unethical is automatically unlawful and thus grounds for prosecution.

Similarly, even if what they did IS illegal, that doesn't mean it's necessarily unethical, and whether they're "just getting what they deserve" is also something that people can quite reasonably disagree on.

Re:You can't do that... (5, Insightful)

Co0Ps (1539395) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866535)

They havn't commited any crimes or "illigal behaviour". Unless you're talking about the extemly vague "participation", according to a judge with none to small insight in how the their technology worked, that was biased (according to common sense, he was a member of a copyright organization), in a trial that spawned from an investigation by a cop that quit and got a job at Warner Bros.

TPB is hashmapping files and tracking what hashes diffrent IP addresses downloads. Since they where not publishing, nor distributing, any material, they had no obligation to filter it. Linking is not a crime.

By selling the company they where actually doing the industry a favour, trying to make it more compliant. Two things could happen, it could either transform into something better, or it would be the death of TPB (most likely). Both scenarios are favourable by the industry. But since the distributors rather kill themselves than ever regonizing anything that could spawn out of the pirate community, they choose to sue them some more, kick them while they're laying down.

Re:You can't do that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866799)

Its one thing to allow others to post links it another altogether to promote the posting of links to illegal material. If put up a bulletin board at a restaurant I own call "The Pot Smokers Bay" and people were putting up fliers on where to buy pot, I would be held responsible.

Re:You can't do that... (1)

bertoelcon (1557907) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867533)

Its one thing to allow others to post links it another altogether to promote the posting of links to illegal material. If put up a bulletin board at a restaurant I own call "The Pot Smokers Bay" and people were putting up fliers on where to buy pot, I would be held responsible.

Not if your restaurant was in a place where it is legal to buy pot.

Re:You can't do that... (1)

davegravy (1019182) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866995)

By selling the company they where actually doing the industry a favour, trying to make it more compliant. Two things could happen, it could either transform into something better, or it would be the death of TPB (most likely). Both scenarios are favourable by the industry.

I disagree. I suspect they would rather have TPB disappear entirely than add credibility to the use of the bittorrent protocol by having a successful (Ameri-)legal distribution business based off it. As it stands the vast number of ISPs who throttle bittorrent traffic are working in the industry's favour, and this would cease to be the case if TPB became an (Ameri-)legal entity.

Re:You can't do that... (1)

oneirophrenos (1500619) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866685)

Yeah, they're taking alot of flak from just about everyone around the world, but only because they're so smug about what they're trying to get away with. They're just getting what they deserve.

Their smugness is repeatedly brought up, and I don't quite understand how it affects the severity of their crime. Does it really matter if they're smug or remorseful, is their "crime" still not the same? If they had kept a low profile about the trial, would you then have said they don't deserve what they get?

Re:You can't do that... (1)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866893)

It's called schadenfreude.

You ever watch The Green Mile?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120689/ [imdb.com]

Compare and contrast the deaths of Delacroix and Wharton.

Re:You can't do that... (2, Informative)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867021)

>>>"They're suing us over something which we don't own"

The argument which has been used for at least 5 years now (where have you been), is that trackers don't have copies of the books, songs, or videos. The possession is in the hands of the private *citizens* and the tracker merely acts like a phone company to connect these distant homes to one another. i.e. The tracker doesn't own the works.

>>>if I make alot of money through a company I own which is involved with illegal behaviour

A company telling User Joe Smith that he can find a copy of "Twilight Zone" from User Trinity, and providing B's address to A is not illegal behavior under current law. You might wish it was, but it ain't.

The people who are the "criminals" in that case are Mr. Smith and Trinity, not the tracker company, and they are the ones who should be getting sued for violating existing laws, not piratebay.

A good plan... (1)

autoevolution (1519077) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866159)

Keep saying you'll sell TPB to some company and just keep delaying it so it never actually gets sold, say "we don't own the site, its being sold to company X". Meanwhile TBP doesn't change at all and we are all happy :)

Today's youth can learn a lesson from these guys (5, Funny)

tomzyk (158497) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866189)

I think the most funny part of the whole suit is that they just write: 'Reservella is a company run by Fredrik Neij' -- out of 40 pages of paper that's all they have to say...

Wow. In highschool, I always thought expanding a 3-page term-paper into a 4-page term-paper was kinda rough, but could always be done by tweaking the font-size (ie. 13pt instead of 12pt) or line-spacing (ie. 2.1 instead of standard double-spacing)... but turning 8 words into a 40 page document?!? I am humbled.

Re:Today's youth can learn a lesson from these guy (1)

davegravy (1019182) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866455)

There's probably 39.5 pages of definitions and other legal language/diarrhea

Re:Today's youth can learn a lesson from these guy (1)

Jimmy King (828214) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866487)

Amateur. You forgot about adjusting the spacing between characters and downloading new fonts where at the approved 12pt (usually the largest we were allowed) was the same as a 15pt in a standard font like Arial.

Re:Today's youth can learn a lesson from these guy (1)

Mitchell314 (1576581) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866575)

You have much to learn, grasshopper.

Re:Today's youth can learn a lesson from these guy (1)

bertoelcon (1557907) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867577)

I sold ad space in my senior thesis in highschool.

Sigh (4, Insightful)

Co0Ps (1539395) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866273)

Not really a smart move by the movie industry. TPB is currently trying to transform into something more cooperative. Probably something that even the movie industry could strike a deal from. Suing would only make this process more difficult, halt it or even prevent it. But that's hardly a suprise as they are arrogant and doesn't hesitate one bit to play the legal card rather then making the slightest effort to adopt to the new digital era. Thanks to the last trial, Sweden now have a Pirate Party politican in the europeean parlament. I wonder whats next.

Not even a good name (1)

Nebulious (1241096) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866331)

Reservella? Seriouslly!? Did the executives just get drunk at happy hour one day and come up with the fake company to sue with then?

Red Suit: We-We need a name that says the company totally reserved the rights for the stuff.
Blue Suit: How abouuuuut...Re...ser...vella?
Red Suit: Yes. Yes, write that down and we can count this entire Bangkok trip as a business expense!
Blue Suit: Awesome, someone get an 8-year-old boy to deliver us some blow. We'll use 'em both up!

Re:Not even a good name (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28867423)

You forgot the part where Red Spy stabs Blue Spy in the back with a butterfly knife.

The leaders are out of control (4, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866339)

"All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable,
than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. -- The history of the present is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over [the citizens]. The government has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance."

I say

-revolt. The is NO natural right to stop someone from copying your book, or song, or filmed play. The only natural right is the right to lock it into a safe and hide it from view, but you do Not have a right to stop someone from using their own pen-and-paper, or tape recorder, or computer, however they desire. It's THEIR property, not yours.

Re:The leaders are out of control (4, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866397)

P.S.

The government grant of license to an artisan is a *privilege* not a right, and only a temporary one at that.

Re:The leaders are out of control (1)

samriel (1456543) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867319)

P.S.

The government grant of license to an artisan is a *privilege* not a right, and only a temporary one at that.

Yes, but when "temporary" means somewhere around life + 75 years... that's not so temporary.

You win the horse shit award (1)

Savior_on_a_Stick (971781) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867245)

1st, no one ever said it's a natural right.
It's a derived right, which the majority have agreed is an overall benefit to society.
The fact that intellectual property is not a physical thing doesn't negate it's existence.
Your position is ignorant and lacks even internal consistency.

i smell profit! (4, Funny)

castironpigeon (1056188) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866359)

I bet TPB could make a killing selling the rights to this saga/soap opera/farce to Hollywood to make into a movie. ...and then they could index the torrent for it.

Piss the Corporate Overlords off... (5, Interesting)

GPLDAN (732269) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866421)

Remember TPB had a link right off the home page of correspondence? It was with lawyers from Sony BMG, and other places. Usually it was a legalize Cease and Desist type letter.

The TPB guys would usually respond with some really funny snarky shit. Like "Dear Sirs, here in Sweden we think your shit attitude needs to get bent over a stool."

In some cases, they would piss the other side off so much they would drop the formal language and start spewing, like "you little shits, we're gonna find you and shut your asses down." It was hilarious to read them simply pissing on the leather shoes of expensive lawyers and telling them to fuck off.

Well, you do that enough and you get high on powerful enemy hit lists. Don't kid yourself, power multinationals bought off that Swedish judge and make this into a kangaroo court. It's probably one of the biggest travesties of justice of all time, the slope is so fucking slippery. They may as well sue the IETF or ARIN for giving out IP addresses to enable piracy. That's how egregious the law was twisted for the interests of powerful capitalists.

Now? Now they are laying on the hurt to teach the world a lesson.

Re:Piss the Corporate Overlords off... (2, Insightful)

davegravy (1019182) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866755)

Well, you do that enough and you get high on powerful enemy hit lists. Don't kid yourself, power multinationals bought off that Swedish judge and make this into a kangaroo court. It's probably one of the biggest travesties of justice of all time, the slope is so fucking slippery. They may as well sue the IETF or ARIN for giving out IP addresses to enable piracy. That's how egregious the law was twisted for the interests of powerful capitalists.

There's a chance TPB pissed off the enemy enough that they will be irresponsible in their retaliation, falter, and some good will come out of this.

Re:Piss the Corporate Overlords off... (2, Informative)

Keyper7 (1160079) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866815)

Remember TPB had a link right off the home page of correspondence?

"Had"? It's still right there [thepiratebay.org] , under the link "legal threats".

Re:Piss the Corporate Overlords off... (1)

j1976 (618621) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866853)

The legal/mail/response page is still available here [thepiratebay.org] . Typical quotes include things like (in a response to Dreamworks) "It is the opinion of us and our lawyers that you are ....... morons, and that you should please go sodomize yourself with retractable batons."

Re:Piss the Corporate Overlords off... (1)

easyTree (1042254) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867231)

As long as we collectively pretend to believe that some people are wise enough to sit in judgement of another, this will continue to happen. It just isn't so.

Re:Piss the Corporate Overlords off... (1)

Savior_on_a_Stick (971781) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867337)

TPB has always been about piracy.
They knew what was going on, and took no action to prevent it, as well as benefiting from it.
Ads on TBP generate revenue, and the revenue is based on site traffic.
Track only non-infringing torrents and TPB would cease to exist, and so would the revenue stream.
They do not enjoy common carrier status.
Snarky comments do not negate the simple truth of the matter.

Your First Premise is WRONG (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28866749)

"BuR4N writes with news that 10 US movie companies have filed a suit"

I hate to break the news to you, but the U.S.A. collapsed economically several years ago. You are currently witnessing the political collapse, as the corporate oligarchs with the help of the Criminals-In-Congress attempt to steal as much money as possible from the U.S. Treasury with corporate bailouts of banks and former flagship U.S. companies ( Chrysler and General Motors).

Enjoy the DOOM!

Yours In Communism,
Kilgore Trout [youtube.com]

Why "piracy"? (1)

RevWaldo (1186281) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866837)

Who in the industry decided to call it "piracy"? Piracy sounds cool. In many (most?) fictional depictions the pirates are the good guys. (Modern-day piracy notwithstanding.) Why don't they push to call it "software theft" or "computer mugging" or something?

Hmm ... not being sued in the US (4, Interesting)

Pool_Noodle (1373373) | more than 5 years ago | (#28866937)

I find it mildly amusing that this group of movie studios isn't suing TPB on US Soil, no instead these companies have to take their embarrassing freak show of Illegally obtained evidence, overzealous lawyers, and greedy "businessmen" to a country where none of the players reside just to try and "stop the evil criminals". Simply put, enough is enough, I'm not defending TPB, but at the same time I think its safe to assume 3 things - interest in piracy is going to increase even more (stick it to the evil movie companies), America will look even worse in the global view for trying to "police the world" (thank you to those who posted that already), and simply put, if they do manage to stop TPB by some freak coincidence 10 more places will spring up in their place, 'cause you can't stop the signal (yeah ... I couldn't resist the Serenity reference). Instead of wasting time and resources these companies need to learn to stop fighting the new technology and use it to their advantage - DVD's and digital downloads without DRM (com'on how many ways does it have to be broken before these guys learn that its not working !?), CD's that don't lock up and freeze computers (oooh ooh .. how many people remember this Sony Fiasco ??), DVD's that don't remove your ability to skip previews (yes, I actually own DVD's that prevent you from Skipping the previews), the list goes on and on. Oh well, my 2 cents on the topic.

TPB not as impressive as they hope. (4, Interesting)

cellurl (906920) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867147)

TPB is not impressing me as much as they were.

Would someone tell me why TPB doesn't put up a Unicef [unicefusa.org] tip jar. I would donate. Then we would see a game changer. TPB-shutdown == kids-starving.

you don't have to watch it. creative commons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28867183)

You don't even have to watch the movies by the MPAA or RIAA industry. We tend to think that because it costs something it's better, but why not enjoy the free things, like Linux and sitting outside. I think it has to do with slides telling us that paying for something makes us happy. If you don't want to pay for it, find something else that's free. It may be better. except for medical care in some cases that uses evolutionary medicine.

justice for the rich (1)

spyrochaete (707033) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867377)

This is just another example of Big Media trying to bleed the little guy dry. This is an abuse of the judicial system where the plaintiff badgers a defendant through the legal system by forcing the defendant to commit all their funds to legal fees until they can no longer afford anything but a settlement.

This works just fine in America. I guess it's a welcome practise in Sweden as well.

The fix is in (2, Insightful)

russotto (537200) | more than 5 years ago | (#28867403)

I think events recently have made it absolutely clear that there will be no justice in the courts, anywhere. Specifically, the previous Pirate Bay trial where the judge was an advocate for the plaintiff's cause, and Sony v. Tenenbaum where the judge refused to allow a fair use defense to be presented to the jury. The fix is in.

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