Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

New Left 4 Dead DLC Coming Next Month

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the mo-zombies-mo-problems dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 55

Valve said yesterday that they're working on a new campaign for Left 4 Dead, and they plan to release it in September. It's called Crash Course, and while it will be free for owners of the PC version, Xbox 360 users will need to purchase it. The new campaign "bridges the gap between the end of the 'No Mercy' campaign and the beginning of 'Death Toll' in the original game, expanding the game universe with new locations, new dialogue from the original cast, and an explosive finale." Crash Course isn't as long as the other campaigns, a deliberate decision by Valve to enable players to finish a Versus-mode game in about 30 minutes. A preview of the new content on Destructoid notes, "Since we've got a shorter campaign, much more has been packed into a smaller space. Lucky players who know where to look can upgrade to second-tier weaponry almost straight away. However, they'll have their work cut out for them, because there's a chance to get swamped by the horde right from the very beginning."

cancel ×

55 comments

Valve are more evil than EA. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28954359)

EA has at least dropped DRM on it's more recent products leaving Steam the most restrictive DRM system in the gaming world right now.

After telling people not to worry about the fact Left 4 Dead severely lacked content because they'd release more for free later on, effectively you were buying into an initially small game that would expand to justify it's cost they now say they'll charge XBox 360 owners for what was promised to be free?

It's sad, Valve is one of the best game developers on the planet, but unfortunately they've now stolen EA's crown as worst publisher on the planet.

They've always been incompetent (~10 years to get TF2 out the door, getting their biggest title ever's source code leaked because of a simple e-mail keylogger etc.), but now they're both evil and incompetent. I wish the devs at Valve would fuck off and make their own studio, leaving the idiots at the top running the publishing and business side of things to rot.

Re:Valve are more evil than EA. (3, Informative)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 4 years ago | (#28954511)

now say they'll charge XBox 360 owners for what was promised to be free

I'm not a Valve fan, but this isn't due to them. It is Microsoft who doesn't want free DLC on XBL.

Re:Valve are more evil than EA. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28957701)

Well, that's what you get for gaming on a Microsoft platform. As a PC player I don't have to put up with... Oh, wait.

Re:Valve are more evil than EA. (2, Insightful)

$1uck (710826) | more than 4 years ago | (#28957805)

I don't mind shelling out the money. I'm irked at MS for basically forcing valve's hand on this, but I will buy the DLC.

Re:Valve are more evil than EA. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28958251)

I'm not a Valve fan, but this isn't due to them. It is Microsoft who doesn't want free DLC on XBL.

So, Valve isn't responsible for the choices it makes because of some big bad video game company? Somebody call Jack Thompson!

Re:Valve are more evil than EA. (3, Informative)

sapphire wyvern (1153271) | more than 4 years ago | (#28954513)

MS doesn't like publishers to release free DLC on the XBox; they're trying to establish a community expectation that add ons should cost extra. I think I've read somewhere that they permit occasional small updates but insist that any significant expansions to the game's content be for.

Re:Valve are more evil than EA. (2, Insightful)

BassMan449 (1356143) | more than 4 years ago | (#28957159)

You may call Steam the most restrictive DRM on the market and I would agree. However it is the only DRM system I've ever used I can honestly say I like. Yes it is used to restrict piracy, but they provide a great value through that service. Updates happen automatically, I can redownload any time I need to, and they integrate fairly well with their community offerings.

Re:Valve are more evil than EA. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28963591)

Do you work for Valve?

"Yes it is used to restrict piracy"

What? this makes no sense, pirates are the ones who use cracks and don't get restricted. Only honest users, their customers suffer restrictions.

"Updates happen automatically, I can redownload any time I need to, and they integrate fairly well with their community offerings."

And these features require DRM why exactly? It is possible to provide these features without fucking over the customer in the process you know.

You seem to be totally confused as to what DRM is, you seem to think good ideas that have been copied from companies like Microsoft with XBox live are part of DRM, they're not. DRM is merely the part that fucks you, the honest customer over.

Re:Valve are more evil than EA. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28966581)

How, exactly, does Valve's DRM fuck me, the honest customer, over? There is nothing I have the legal right to do that the DRM doesn't allow me to do. I get exactly what I pay for. Sounds like sour grapes from someone who isn't an "honest customer" ... someone who, frankly, Valve shouldn't give a shit about.

Re:Valve are more evil than EA. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28970019)

"There is nothing I have the legal right to do that the DRM doesn't allow me to do. I get exactly what I pay for."

Wrong. Steam's DRM and EULA prevents you from exercising your legal right to sell the product on second hand.

When their activation and patch servers break, it often also prevents you using the product you've legally paid for.

Your latter argument makes no sense whatsoever, how could someone have sour grapes if they weren't an honest customer? If I wasn't an honest customer I'd end up with a superior product because it'd be cracked, it'd be DRM free, I could play it when I want, and it wouldn't cost me anything. I'd get it and be able to play it before release date to. There's no reason whatsoever someone that pirates software and wasn't an honest customer would need to be sour about anything, they'd get a far better service all round.

Again, the only people who could be upset at Valves DRM are honest customers, the very people they, er, should give a shit about.

Still, their DRM will bite you one day then you'll come crying, just like all the other ignorant fanboys that get fucked over by DRM eventually.

L4D (5, Informative)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#28954363)

Just to note here before the bitching starts, 360 version costs because MS wants it. Good that Valve gives it for free for PC users.

This sounds nice and comes nicely before Left4Dead2. Also shows that Valve continues to support their existing games, even for free. Same thing as with TF2. Most other companies would just had forgetten about it after release, maybe done a few bug fixes. Or asked $20 per more major update.

Nice work, and L4D was (and still is) my favourite game on end of last year and this year.

Re:L4D (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#28954389)

"Just to note here before the bitching starts, 360 version costs because MS wants it."

Got a source for that?

There has been plenty of additional free in game content for other games in the past. In fact, even the last L4D DLC was free.

Re:L4D (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28954671)

Valve, and other publishers, have released free 360 DLC before by eating the cost of testing and certification.

Microsoft requires all DLC to undergo a certification process they prescribe. It costs money to perform the testing and verification to meet Microsoft's requirements; Valve doesn't have to spend money to release the same content to PCs. This includes - amusingly - handling dependencies, which isn't a problem for Valve because Steam acts as a package manager that ensures everyone has the same platform. The 360 can't do that.

Valve's Gabe Newell [g4tv.com] :

On the Xbox it's a lot more complicated because you can't guarantee that people have all of the right content given their DLC model, where some people might have some content and others not, which makes it end of up with this weird, complicated thing where this person has this, and this person has this. Where as on the PC we can assume that people have everything. So, we're trying to get that fixed because they're sort of cramping our ability to push more free content into customer's hands when we aren't sure which free content they have right? And the stuff that you're allowed to require customers to have on the Xbox, it's only 8MB. That's the maximum size you can ever change. So, we do that with the first minor update that we do. We're trying to figure out how to manage that.

This isn't a problem exclusive to the 360. PS3 certification problems have delayed DLC for Epic; Newell says Valve won't even attempt PS3 DLC until they hire more developers. Hiring developers costs money.

Re:L4D (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#28954941)

Valve must've known the costs before hand though?

I understand the certification costs but the reason most people seem uptight over L4D (and why I personally wasn't keen on it after I played it a fair bit) was because it was such a small game to start with, it really felt like little more than an HL2 mod but was priced as a full priced title.

If re-certification makes creation of content unfeasible, then perhaps Valve should reconsider the idea of releasing low-content games with the promise of providing much content later on and go back to footing the development bill for a full sized game and waiting for the income to roll in on release like pretty much all other companies do?

The crux of the problem seems to be Valve's attempt at pushing different financing models for the development of games to maximise profit, the problem is the consumer is the one falling victim to the flaws in these attempts such as in this case possibly realising that releasing parts of the game later on leads higher certification costs than if they'd just delayed the game a year to produce all the content in a single release and got it certified all in one pack.

IIRC there was a story a few weeks back about Valve (or someone elses, I can't remember) idea of gamers financing game development and so far the L4D drama seems to be an example of why that isn't ideal - as with episodic content, it seems it costs the consumer more in the long run, yet they get nothing more for it and have no idea when they may see the rest of their game arrive, if at all as was the case with SiN episodes.

Re:L4D (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28955423)

Perhaps Valve should reconsider the idea of releasing low-content games with the promise of providing much content later on and go back to footing the development bill for a full sized game and waiting for the income to roll in on release like pretty much all other companies do.

I don't know what else to say. There's no good answer to this, other than to tell you to stop patronizing Valve if you so thoroughly disapprove of their business practices.

I can't complain about L4D, but I paid for it what I thought it was worth - $20, for PC. I feel like I've gotten at least that much out of it; it's not like Valve didn't have an established track record for putting out more free DLC for the PC than the 360 going into it.

And on top of that, L4D was a heavily marketed title from a AAA studio. There were tons and tons of reviews, almost all of them lamenting the amount of content. The deepest discounts all came within two months of release. There was a public beta AND a demo out for months before the release.

At some point, you're going to run out of excuses for paying "full price" for something that many reviewers said wasn't worth full price, even before it came out. Nobody forces you to buy games the day, week or month they come out, or to buy it only from stores that charge the most for it. And as long as people continue to pay $40-$60 to buy the game on the release date, Valve sure as hell won't stop doing it.

If L4D2 looks like it's not worth $60, or this DLC doesn't look like it's worth the MSP ... then don't buy it. But don't expect Valve to do anything differently as long as they're making money - and more money in less time in this franchise than I'll wager they've made on any other.

Re:L4D (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#28955643)

I don't disagree with your point and I did indeed cancel my L4D2 pre-order because I do no longer have faith that Valve will provide value for money and as you say, I certainly wont be buying this DLC.

Regarding reviews though, the problem is they're not worth the bytes to download to your browser, some great games get slated, whilst crap games get high ratings. Part of it is of course subjectivity, but most reviews seem to be more about whose paid their protection money to the reviewing protection racket. I do not believe you can judge the real quality of a game on reviews. Averaged user ratings that some sites have seem much better now, but even then without the raw data for them being published there's no way to know if they can really be trusted.

Similarly Demos aren't much help, they give no idea of the amount and quality of content in the final product, only the general style of gameplay (which I actually really liked).

Re:L4D (2, Informative)

Ksempac (934247) | more than 4 years ago | (#28955213)

I don't know anything about Left 4 Dead, but it is a known fact that MS can fix prices for at least some of the DLC : i know the (awesome) Castle Crashers' team wanted their DLC free, but MS decided people should pay for it. Here is a proof : http://devblog.thebehemoth.com/?p=516 [thebehemoth.com] . The team even offered some MS points to counter this for their most loyal fans : http://devblog.thebehemoth.com/?p=1095 [thebehemoth.com]

Re:L4D (1)

Serzen (675979) | more than 4 years ago | (#28958961)

The last DLC for L4D was sponsored by, if I recall correctly, Sam Raimi's Drag Me to Hell or whatever it was called. The funding for the DLC was provided that way.

Re:L4D (1)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 4 years ago | (#28954445)

Also shows that Valve continues to support their existing games

As someone whose last favorite game is Duke Nukem, I can see the appeal of that.

That and (1, Troll)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#28955579)

Consoles cost money to develop for. That is how they make their profits. The hardware is sold at a minimal profit at most, and often break even or a loss. Money is made on game sales. Each copy sold pays a licensing fee. Now I don't know all the details for DLC licensing, but I do know it has to at least be certified, which isn't free. That's also why console titles tend to cost more. For the developers and publishers to make the same amount per copy sold, they must charge more per unit.

The basic rule of game systems is that consoles are cheaper to buy, but the content is more expensive. Games cost more each, and additional content is often for pay, if available at all. PCs cost more to buy, and often have upgrade costs, but the content is less expensive. Not only do games cost less, but even if the developer doesn't offer additional content, users often do.

Re:L4D (1)

imakemusic (1164993) | more than 4 years ago | (#28956165)

shows that Valve continues to support their existing games, even for free.

You mean Valve continues to finish the game and provide the updates and content that were promised and paid for at the time of the initial purchase.

Re:L4D (1)

Dr. Impossible (1580675) | more than 4 years ago | (#28958117)

So some things were delayed, but it's not like you had to pay any additional money for them.

Re:L4D (1)

imakemusic (1164993) | more than 4 years ago | (#28958559)

I didn't pay any additional money, no but my point is that I've already payed that money. The original release was woefully short - four levels not all of them playable in all modes...etc.

I paid for a what would eventually be a full-sized game under the impression that they would continue developing it and release the content as it's available. To me this is the best way of doing things - I get something to play early on rather than waiting for the whole thing to be finished and then get the rest of the content when it's ready. It almost seems like Valve have taken the excuse to charge full price for a small game and then try to say "look, aren't we nice giving all this FREE, BONUS content away?". The survival mod was pretty underwelming. It seemed like the type of thing that could have been added in a week. Apparently there was a load of balancing envolved - but that's not at all obvious if that's the case. now there's another map which is purposefully short. Don't get me wrong - they're my favourite game developer by far I'm just not sure their quality-over-quantity ratio is very well balanced.

Re:L4D (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 4 years ago | (#28967121)

The original release was woefully short - four levels not all of them playable in all modes...etc.

eh, no. There are four CAMPAIGNS. Not four levels. Each campaign has around 4 levels so there are in total around 16 levels to play through.

YAY (0, Redundant)

s0l1dsnak3123 (1244796) | more than 4 years ago | (#28954375)

I love valve, they are making something free for the PC users! Woo! I sound so retarded, but i just want first post :P

Re:YAY (-1, Troll)

d3ac0n (715594) | more than 4 years ago | (#28954489)

Then you sounded retarded for nothing as your post is WAY down the list. ;)

But yes, always great to see free FPS oriented stuff for the PC platform.

Too bad it's on Steam(ing pile of shit). Oh well, I'm sure I'll be able to pirate it in short order, just like the rest of my Valve collection.

Re:YAY (1)

d3ac0n (715594) | more than 4 years ago | (#28955711)

OK, now I have to figure out why my post above:

Then you sounded retarded for nothing as your post is WAY down the list. ;)

But yes, always great to see free FPS oriented stuff for the PC platform.

Too bad it's on Steam(ing pile of shit). Oh well, I'm sure I'll be able to pirate it in short order, just like the rest of my Valve collection.

Was marked "Troll" for making a humorous response to this post:

I love valve, they are making something free for the PC users! Woo! I sound so retarded, but i just want first post :P

Perhaps because I expressed a dislike for Steam(ing pile of shit)? Maybe. I guess the mods still haven't figured out that "troll" != "disagree".

Either way, I am still glad to see a free game come out for the PC, and I'll still pirate it as I still refuse to install Steam(ing pile of shit) on my PC. If you guys want to pollute your systems with that kind of DRM, feel free. but until it comes DRM free, I'll continue to pirate. (And yes, if it was available free of DRM, I would even PAY for this "free" expansion. I reward honesty with honesty.)

Re:YAY (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28956335)

"I reward honesty with honesty."

Wow, how evolved of you. How about pay for the game and then just crack your copy. Steam is worlds beyond MOST DRM, you know, the kind where if the disc gets lost or scratched you're screwed. I know some people can't be pleased (read: you), but Steam really is a decent alternative. It's been like 6 years since I purchased Half Life but to this day I can fire up Steam on a new computer and have it installed and running within the hour, no disc required.

Re:YAY (1)

imakemusic (1164993) | more than 4 years ago | (#28956565)

I can only see two "problems" with steam:

1. You have to connect to the internet at least once per game.

2. You can't transfer game ownership.

Personally I don't care about either - I have an internet connection, I can deal with that. If my connection dies it can be annoying, but hey, it's not the end of the world.

The nontransferability is a bit annoying - I accidentally bought a game on my brothers account and can't transfer it to myself! But I'd rather have my library of old games available on steam than as a stack of old scratched CDs that I have to cart around.

Meh, each to their own I guess. I just think that "steam(ing pile of shit)" is a bit strong.

Re:YAY (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28956765)

Perhaps it's because your original post was little more than a flame at the GP and a flame at Steam, with absolutely no explanation for your hate?

Firing out baseless opinions of hate with little or no explanation and abuse directed towards other users, is a pretty valid definition of a troll post.

Re:YAY (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 4 years ago | (#28967167)

No one cares about your views on DRM when you're pirating games. You're not valve's customer so you don't get a say.

Re:YAY (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28970207)

I agree with all of the above. It's easy to also set up a new system, re-establish my account and download all of the games I've purchased in the past without headache or problem.

Sure - one must connect to the server ONCE. Odds are you're going to have an internet connection anyway, or can bring your system to someplace that does have one for the two hours or so it will take to grab the game(s) you wanted.

No CD's are required. The patches are applied automatically. You can still apply mods or the like directly to the game executables and configurations within Steams directories.

Honestly - if you can't afford the 40 or so bucks for a game on steam maybe you should be spending your time looking for a better job instead of playing games?

Killswitch Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28954533)

In other words: If you can build your own gaming console and stick it to microsoft, than here you go, a free game. Don't let us catch you doing any work on that machine! They should only offer linux versions for free really

There are already HQ Custom campagins (5, Informative)

dalmiroy2k (768278) | more than 4 years ago | (#28954557)

There are a few Custom Campaigns that you should try, both for single and multiplayer.
The first one, Death Aboard, looks like as if it was made by Valve itself. It's really polished and has probably the best final level.
The second one, Dam It!, it's only one large level but it provides adequate challenges.
There is also a "Dawn of the Dead (2004) remake" custom campaign coming soon

Death Aboard.
http://www.l4dmods.com/index.php?option=com_joomloads&view=package&Itemid=2&packageId=156 [l4dmods.com]
Dam it!
http://www.l4dmods.com/index.php?option=com_joomloads&view=package&Itemid=2&packageId=329 [l4dmods.com]

Full list
http://www.l4dmods.com/index.php?option=com_joomloads&view=packages&Itemid=2&category_id=24&orderCol=1&orderType=1&page=2 [l4dmods.com]

Re:There are already HQ Custom campagins (1)

spyrochaete (707033) | more than 4 years ago | (#28956179)

After about 3 months of ignoring L4D I tried the Dam it! mod and had a really great time. Not only was it refreshing to try a new campaign (especially one with no loading screens) but I actually found it SCARY since I didn't know what to expect around the corner. It really reminded me how much I like this game when I haven't done the maps to death. I might even reconsider buying L4D2 after all thanks to this reminder; I thought I'd just gotten tired of the premise but apparently not!

try this custom campaign! (1)

naz404 (1282810) | more than 4 years ago | (#28956447)

Behold!

Left 4 Dead in 4kb: Left 4k Dead [mojang.com] !

pretty cool spin-off for 4 kilobytes ;)

Re:There are already HQ Custom campagins (2, Insightful)

icsx (1107185) | more than 4 years ago | (#28961205)

None of these are made by actual fucking professional level designers. The custom campaigns, especially the first ones are usually full of shit with few exceptions that you just listed. I'm amazed that almost after a year since the game was released, there has been only ONE actual content update, the new survival map lighthouse. If this game would have been CS Source or TF2, there would have been lots of downloadable content aka NEW MAPS.

They threw us the developers tools - make your own maps but only after 6 months when everyone was already tired of the same old maps and to the whole game. If the tools would have been given 6 months prior from the day they went beta, there would have been a lot more quality custom campaigns already out.

Death Aboard is the most promising one yet - but it has issues. One of them is the low fps. My eyes bleed when i have to look that twitching screen. It is also far too easy to play trough.

waiting for the big one.. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28954953)

left 4 Winchester baby. the z word..don't say it

Re:waiting for the big one.. (1)

imakemusic (1164993) | more than 4 years ago | (#28956579)

I would pay money for this.

Re:waiting for the big one.. (1)

Anonymous Cowar (1608865) | more than 4 years ago | (#28956673)

wow, that'd be awesome to have the dialogue clipped from the movie. I'd play it.

Re:waiting for the big one.. (1)

Dr. Impossible (1580675) | more than 4 years ago | (#28958213)

And in case anyone is wondering, it's actually under development [kotaku.com] .

Re:waiting for the big one.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28958865)

yeah i'm wishing for dialogue snippets from the movie too but there might be copyright issues:(

I can't help but feel... (1)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 4 years ago | (#28955003)

This will probably be an excellent campaign -- hopefully designed with all the experience and flaws of the previous ones in mind -- and I'm really happy about it being released. But I can't help feeling what this really says is "we made a conscious decision to spend as little as possible on Left 4 Dead when we have a sequel coming out, so we made this much smaller map to end our obligation to past promises of content."

Who cares (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28955217)

Get to work on HL2:EP3 or fix the damn bugs in CS:S!

Zoey?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28956315)

Why does Zoey's face change on every campaign poster? I mean, seriously?

Re:Zoey?? (1)

DanWS6 (1248650) | more than 4 years ago | (#28956901)

She's upset about Valve taking 9 months to release a 2 map campaign which totals 30 minutes of gameplay.

How about fixing L4D first? (0, Troll)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 4 years ago | (#28956903)

That's nice and all, but how about fixing the fucking problems with L4D before expanding it and making another one? I'm fucking SICK SICK SICK of players (including smoker tongues, hunter pounces, and boomer barf) being blocked by the smallest obstructions, hunters literally bouncing off of other players when lunging (I once landed and STOOD on someone's head after a pounce without tackling), the unspeakably fucking AWFUL survivor AI that will sit around with it's thumb up the ass while a hunter eats your intestines, survivors hanging off of the edge of something when the ground is two feet below them, smoker tongues breaking for no discernible reason at all, lousy anti-cheat protection, bugged instakill zones with smokers (ie, smoke someone off the crane dumpster from a nearby building in Dead Air lvl 2 and they drag horizontally through mid air. WTF?), the tank's hit window sometimes being ridiculously narrow for such a massive monster with huge, beefy arms that swing very wide...Christ, the list goes on. Fix your shit first, Valve! Jesus, myself and many others are fucking SICK of these and so many more issues in an otherwise awesome game!

Re:How about fixing L4D first? (1)

ledow (319597) | more than 4 years ago | (#28959117)

Avid L4D player... haven't even SEEN most of those, let alone had them affect my gameplay.

"being blocked by the smallest obstructions"

Nope. Not really. Standard hitboxes etc. like any other game in it's genre as far as I can tell.

"hunters literally bouncing off of other players when lunging"

Er... nope... not unless the survivor hits you or you get some SERIOUS lag.

"(I once landed and STOOD on someone's head after a pounce without tackling)"

I'll take your word for it, but I've only ever seen this happen in high-lag situations and when it "caught up", the hunter had been scratching the face off someone for all that time in "reality" (i.e. according to the server).

"the unspeakably fucking AWFUL survivor AI that will sit around with it's thumb up the ass while a hunter eats your intestines"

They want to push rather than shoot... it's a flaw, admittedly. But the bots are quite good... I've actually gotten better times on Survival with 2 bots and another human than I have with 4 humans. Rare but it happens.

"survivors hanging off of the edge of something when the ground is two feet below them"

Agreed, this should be a simple check of just how far you would fall and MAKE you fall if it wasn't going to hurt you quite a bit, rather than hang on. Hardly affect the majority of games though... don't fall off and stay away from edges because of smokers anyway.

"smoker tongues breaking for no discernible reason at all"

Smoker missed / player SHOT the tongue / player bashed the tongue / something moved through the tongue. Never seen anything else do it.

"lousy anti-cheat protection"

After playing CS for years (still do), I am relieved to say that in a year of gameplay I haven't even SEEN anyone I suspect of cheating. I call bullshit or bad player identifying good player as a "cheater".

"bugged instakill zones with smokers"

Not really a "bug", so much as playing on the limits of the map / technology... you're just hitting edges of the map, etc. Could possibly be fixed by a map tweak but it must be incredibly hard to stop such smoker-kills in general (like the one across the edges in the unfinished hospital levels)

"The tank's hit window sometimes being ridiculously narrow for such a massive monster with huge, beefy arms that swing very wide"

What the hell are YOU shooting at? I've never witnessed anything like that.

Re:How about fixing L4D first? (2, Insightful)

Clay Pigeon -TPF-VS- (624050) | more than 4 years ago | (#28959829)

Ive seen some of gp's problems, but not all of them.

Valve should fix its shit AND deliver the content missing at launch before trying to stuff a sequel down our throats for 50 bucks.

Re:How about fixing L4D first? (1)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 4 years ago | (#28961773)

"being blocked by the smallest obstructions"

Seen that. Spawned, got stuck on a rock. Couldn't move around a corner to tongue someone, until they were out of range.

"hunters literally bouncing off of other players when lunging"

Seen that one too. I mentioned it on here in the past - a guy landed on top of me, so I looked up and shot him. :P

"the unspeakably fucking AWFUL survivor AI that will sit around with it's thumb up the ass while a hunter eats your intestines"

Indeed. I've seen them jiggle back and forth while you're getting mauled, without meleeing the hunter off you, or shooting it.

And yet when boomed, they always get the hunter off right away.

"survivors hanging off of the edge of something when the ground is two feet below them"

Yes. I've seen people fall 2 feet to their death. One guy got pulled out a window, but didn't grab on. He was hanging against a stone column outside. We shot the tongue, he fell a foot, and died.

I believe the fall damage was calculated from the window - not where he finally dropped from.

"smoker tongues breaking for no discernible reason at all"

Sometimes the person getting tongued can shoot the tongue off before it pulls. I find that quite annoying.

"lousy anti-cheat protection"

What anti-cheat protection?

Between all the endless tank spawners, aim hackers, glitch abusers, and no-clippers I encounter, I'm surprised there's any protection at all.

"bugged instakill zones with smokers"

It is so annoying getting smoked off that crane crate ladder, through the air and off the building. There's so many areas where you can get insta-kills if you know how. About a half dozen per campaign. :/

"The tank's hit window sometimes being ridiculously narrow for such a massive monster with huge, beefy arms that swing very wide"

Yeah, that's weird. I think it has something to do with ping. This really slow guy with red health was walking left and right, and I couldn't hit him for some reason. I finally backed off and tossed a rock at him, since that actually worked.

Here's some extra bugs:

  • Randomly getting lit on fire.
  • Super-speed no-noise infected door glitch.
  • Tank spawning in fire barrels, inside walls, etc.
  • Tank climbing into walls.
  • Tank randomly dying. Usually happens when "stuck" out of range, but one time I just died(full health) when charging at the survivors on Dead Air 2 (crane)

Re:How about fixing L4D first? (1)

Kneo24 (688412) | more than 4 years ago | (#28964793)

Troll much? Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have seen everything the GP talks about except for the narrow tank hit box.

Small obstructions is fairly obvious. You can't vomit through a chain link fence. It's hard to vomit over cubicles, etc.. As for pouncing, well, you do get stuck on the odd siding on some building, or the extremely narrow drain pipes here and there.

Hunters sliding off of people or just standing on their head instead of pouncing is fairly common. It tends to happen more When there's a huge ping difference between the players... But really, it shouldn't happen at all.

Smoker tongues do sometimes break for no obvious reason. Wide open area, nothing ran through the tongue, person had their back to the tongue and didn't melee, nothing shot the tongue. It just latched and broke. It happens.

As far as cheating goes, I've seen my fair share. Ever notice people who can melee every single hunter out of the air even though their ping is god awful? While lag can work in your favor sometimes, it's not going to work in your favor all of the time. I can melee hunters out of the air in singleplayer like it's no ones business. Online? Depends on my ping. The higher the ping the less likely I am to do it, but so is anyone else.

There's always the random speed hacker (which is rare), aim botter (which I see sometimes), and wall hacker (which I see sometimes). They're pretty easy to catch if you spectate them. Saying that you haven't seen any means that you either don't play the game that often, or you play mostly with your friends and no one else. What makes them easy to catch is their consistency. No one will consistently move like an aim bot. No one will consistently move around like a person wall hacking. No one will look suspicious when being spectated unless they are actually cheating.

There's also the scripters who have the game played for them. Sorry, but pistol scripting is cheating. All you have to do is hold in your fire button. It's no different than a program that automatically moves your cursor to the head of your opponent. And before some arrogant fuckwad mentions how some league allows scripting like pistol scripting, well, then those leagues are nub leagues. It's a slippery slope. At what point do you not allow the game to be played for you? It's not rocket science to figure out. Glow scripts? If it makes it easier to see things that shouldn't be so easy to see, it's cheating.

Re:How about fixing L4D first? (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 4 years ago | (#28967263)

You obviously haven't played this game much because I HAVE seen most if not all of the things the GP listed as well.

Re:How about fixing L4D first? (1)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 4 years ago | (#28980163)

By "small obstructions" I mean very minor objects on the ground or protrusions from walls that stick out two inches. I've seen boomer barf stopped by these protrusions even though there was AMPLE space around it to hit the player.

Nope, I've seen the bouncing off people when pings were all under 100ms and even in LAN games where the highest ping is 8ms.

Um, you really haven't played with the AI, have you? I've seen hunters pounce players and the AI sits around shooting random little zombies for 10 seconds before getting the hunter off the player. It's utterly absurd. Players should take precedent over a few mindless zombies.

I have seen PLENTY of cheaters, from blatant speedhacks to aimbots to wallhacks and more. You really haven't played much, have you?

By "bugged" I mean "survivors move horizontally through thin air even though nothing is underneath them". I can see smokers pulling people over the right edge, but what about smoking people off the crate in Dead Air 2 and seeing them pulled ten feet above the nearest surface?

Pardon me, I meant the tank's ability to hit survivors, not survivors shooting the tank. Sometimes it seems that players can be a quarter of an inch to either side of the reticle and you can't fucking hit them because of it.

You really haven't played this game much. It's bloody obvious.

way too little, way too late (1)

sw33tjimmy (662009) | more than 4 years ago | (#28972063)

I sold my copy (360) of left4dead immediately after l4d2 was announced. I enjoyed the first one, don't get me wrong, but it didn't take long for me to realize it was severely lacking. Asking $60 for it was akin to highway robbery... The demo was free and it comprised one quarter of the full game. The L4D2 announcement was a bit of a slap in the face, imo. a shooter with 6 guns...two of which are merely more powerful versions of themselves. Is that a joke? Seriously -- how could anyone *not* feel let down by l4d's dearth of out-of-the-box content? Maybe I'm weird by expecting more out of Valve, or maybe I'm stupid for expecting more out of Valve.

Token anyone (1)

Joker1980 (891225) | more than 4 years ago | (#28982483)

This reminds me of Token from south park

Check for New Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...