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39 comments

Wii emulation on XBox360? (3, Insightful)

MindlessAutomata (1282944) | more than 4 years ago | (#29102695)

If the Xbox360 gets Wii emulation then MS may have an incentive not to stop homebrew on it as (obviously) it will hurt one of their competitors.

Now, if only Wii's gaming library didn't suck for most gamers. (And mods, no, I'm not trolling--the only console I own is the Wii, and I'm disappointed).

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (1)

rekenner (849871) | more than 4 years ago | (#29102725)

If by most gamers you mean people that only play FPSes, sure!

I'd admit I'm not most gamers, but I do like a very wide variety of games, and the Wii has managed to stay damn competitive in my mind. Not that the other consoles don't have games I want (My lust for SRPGs hasn't really been sated by /any/ console, though Valkyria Chronicles looked amazing, and still makes me wish I had access to a PS3), but the Wii still has a lot of just fun games.

Finally, I highly doubt Wii emulation. Once someone gets it working on a PC, sure. But emulation on consoles always seems to lag behind that on PCs and PCs still don't even have near perfect PS2 or GCN emulation.

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (4, Interesting)

Drinking Bleach (975757) | more than 4 years ago | (#29102735)

Finally, I highly doubt Wii emulation. Once someone gets it working on a PC, sure.

You mean like this? [youtube.com]

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#29103779)

Checkout "Dolphin", it's a GC and Wii emulator for the PC. I believe they've got a few games up to playable level but have a way to go.

Being able to Wiimulate on the 360 would be a major thing. Why buy a Wii if you can get a 360 + bluetooth dongle + replacement sensor bar (it's just a couple of LEDs) and a controller or two, then have have both Wii and 360?

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (3, Insightful)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#29104407)

A real Wii won't get you banned from XBox Live?

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#29104609)

The amount I actually use Xbox live, who cares?

Not everyone gives much of a $&*# about online play.

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29113669)

A real Wii won't get you banned from XBox Live?

That only matter to the idiots who pay to access XBox Live. Why the hell would you want that crap?

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (1)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 4 years ago | (#29102751)

I wouldn't say the library sucks, it's probably just not aimed at our market. Personally I find it fun to play with my non geek friends and my Fiancé. They seem to enjoy it because of the low barrier of entry and I enjoy it because I get to interact with the people I'm close with. Most 360/PS3/PC games are aimed for online play or limited local multiplayer, a wii can cater for a dozen people joining in. Alcohol most certainly helps I must admit ;-)

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (1)

polar red (215081) | more than 4 years ago | (#29102929)

I have the same experience; and the games most enjoyable on those occasions are also the simplest (I suggest the 'Wiiplay'-disk). Now when I have friends with kids, they keep asking to play on my wii ...

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (1)

MindlessAutomata (1282944) | more than 4 years ago | (#29109423)

I said "for most gamers." The Wii simply isn't aimed at -gamers- as a whole. It's aimed to the more casual crowd. I don't know why I got modded down trolling for stating a fact. Probably some Nintendo Internet Warrior...

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (1, Insightful)

SchizoStatic (1413201) | more than 4 years ago | (#29102767)

Nintendo would just sue M$ saying it is their job to secure their platform from allowing their customers to run "pirated versions" of the WII software.

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29102845)

What idiot modded that crap up lol. Microsoft are under no obligation whatsoever to stop people using pirated software and Nintendo would be laughed out of court if they tried such a court case. Not that I think nintendo would be as dumb as the OP and actually try such a thing.

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (2, Insightful)

SchizoStatic (1413201) | more than 4 years ago | (#29102953)

I never stated they are required. Yet, I wouldn't be surprised if it went to court and they lost.

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (2, Interesting)

SQLGuru (980662) | more than 4 years ago | (#29104353)

Who says it's a pirated version? If I have an emulator running and I purchase the disc, pop it in, and it plays.....where's the piracy?

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (1)

owyn999 (856162) | more than 4 years ago | (#29125017)

The piracy would be as with PS emulation that you would need to pirate the console itself. It is not legal to dump or otherwise extricate the OS from a Wii system. Just as it is not legal to mod a system to play backup games.

Just saying a Wii emulator is Pirating the OS of the system. I'm sure there was also a fair bit of Reverse Engineering which again is a shady practice at best, and another form of piracy.

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (1)

Red4man (1347635) | more than 4 years ago | (#29106013)

If you want Wii games, why not just go get a Wii?
Xbox360 has a failure rate of 54% [ign.com] .

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (2, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#29109027)

If you *have* an Xbox, then why not make it do both if it's possible? The you don't have to buy a Wii, saving you money.

That article you link to is remarkably well timed though. I've had mine from just after release date and it failed last week...

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (1)

Red4man (1347635) | more than 4 years ago | (#29109713)

The you don't have to buy a Wii, saving you money.
You might be able to buy a Wii and save on the shipping costs from sending the XBoxPleaseFixMe back to MS.

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#29110061)

I repeat - if you HAVE an xBox then getting it to do extra makes financial sense.

Re:Wii emulation on XBox360? (0, Troll)

Red4man (1347635) | more than 4 years ago | (#29110679)

I repeat - UNLESS you spend all your cash fixing it.

Not exactly simple to get running with... (2, Informative)

Adam Jorgensen (1302989) | more than 4 years ago | (#29102697)

Took a look at the Free60 Wiki. Getting a 360 to run homebrew is a rather painful and involved process. By comparison, softmodding a wii is childs play.

Re:Not exactly simple to get running with... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29102807)

I'll say. You need to have an old enough kernel, patch the DVD-drives firmware, buy a specific game (King Kong), image it, patch the image, and only then will you be able to actually run any homebrew. In my case, for instance, this is a real chore, as I have one of the newer Lite-On drives, which are cumbersome to patch for someone who's new to these things. (I also suspect I don't have an old enough 360, but that's just down to luck)

Re:Not exactly simple to get running with... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29108015)

Sorry that is no longer correct. Read the actual article. ANY version of the kernel minus the latest update (from within the past week) is exploitable now with the appropriate hardware (which is the exact same way xbox1 and ps2 hacks started)

Not for the latest (Aug 11) update (4, Informative)

Drinking Bleach (975757) | more than 4 years ago | (#29102753)

I saw this homebrew breakthrough earlier today, I was excited until I noticed the very important message to not update the console -- too late, I already did that a week ago (generally, I update because it's usually a good idea). Unfortunate, but I suspect I'm not the only one with the same misfortune.

Re:Not for the latest (Aug 11) update (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 4 years ago | (#29103101)

I am amused that it took too long to get homebrew running in the Xbox 360... I thought that homebrew was already running.

Funny that in the case of the Wii, homebrew has been running very well [wiibrew.org] since quite some time now.

In fact, due to the terrible "official" releases available for the Wii (all the games are soo boring, or as the guy at Zero Punctuation put it, they seem made for wand-shaking-retards), the homebrew has been a breath of fresh air.

I have had the Wii since the day it came out (I *preordered* it, with high hopes) but it is has been a general disappointment. I am waiting for an OK RPG (not kid-oriented) or an RTS (for which the Wii control would serve really well!)...
Although nowadays I guess it would be better to port any of the open source [junauza.com] RTS...

Re:Not for the latest (Aug 11) update (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#29104451)

You can get Swords & Soldiers for the Wii, it's pretty unconventional but a lot of fun and fairly cheap (10$/€). I think there are some RPGs in the works (Monado, Arc Rise Fantasia) but I don't know when they are coming out (there's also an RTSRPG named Takt of Magic).

Re:Not for the latest (Aug 11) update (1)

csartanis (863147) | more than 4 years ago | (#29108049)

The 360's security system includes a signed bootloader located on a rom on the cpu die itself, and burns out actual fuses to prevent a lower number version of the kernel from being allowed to boot. The security is very tight and this new hole is only the second one every found in the entire life of the 360.

Re:Not for the latest (Aug 11) update (1)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 4 years ago | (#29133585)

Hey buddy, you pre-ordered a Wii because you were hoping to play RTSes and RPGs? And you don't like "wand shaking" mini-games? The only thing you should be disappointed in is...YOURSELF!

PlayStation 3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29103069)

Why is the PS3 left out of the list? You can run homebrew software on it by default.

Re:PlayStation 3? (3, Informative)

fyrewulff (702920) | more than 4 years ago | (#29103291)

You can't use the graphics card/chip/whatever you want to call it in the Linux sandbox mode.

An Unfortunate Example of Well Built DRM In Action (5, Interesting)

rsmith-mac (639075) | more than 4 years ago | (#29103155)

Because the ability to run unsigned code directly on the hardware (e.g. not sandboxed as a user of the OS) is both great for homebrew development and the fundamental building block of a pure software loader for pirated games, this development is going to scare the hell out of the bean counters and the department heads. They're going to have to deploy most (if not all) of the tricks left in their bag of countermeasures, otherwise inside of a year the 360 will end up like the Wii and the Xbox 1 - completely and utterly cracked open for piracy.

As the Free60 homepage has already noted, MS has deployed an update to the first stage of the bootloader, something they've never done before. Such an update is risky because if it fails there is no chance for recovery, it's the equivalent of failing at a BIOS update on a PC. However it's also an effect update; it blocks the only publicly known low-level security hole in the 360, so systems with the new bootloader are fully locked down. Adding even more fuel to the fire is that this was probably one of Microsoft's last unused countermeasures, as no one in the 360 hacking community is immediately aware of any other similar countermeasures. MS may have just played their trump card as far as DRM on the 360 is concerned.

Anyhow, the point of all of this is that this is an excellent and quite scary example of increasingly improved DRM systems being deployed. It's taken just shy of 4 years to crack open the 360 to just this point, and MS has shown the ability to lock it back down with a single update*, one that they'll undoubtedly bake in to new games too in order to snuff out as many vulnerable 360s as possible. In spite of the fact that no DRM system thus far is perfect, this is clear example of where the future of DRM lies: it's going to get better.

Pay close attention to what happens to the 360, because where Microsoft succeeds with DRM is going to show up in other systems. The Zune, the iPhone, the next generation of consoles, cable set top boxes, etc, are all looking for the holy grail of DRM. And every time they fail, they get a little bit closer. With enough failures under their belts, one of these days they may no longer fail.

* The lack of the ability to fully update the bootloader is the biggest flaw in the Xbox1 and Wii. In the case of the Wii, boot1 has a signing bug and is hardcoded - any system with the faulty boot1 can ultimately be cracked by replacing boot2 with a vulnerable loader, such as BootMii

Re:An Unfortunate Example of Well Built DRM In Act (3, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#29103297)

I wonder if this update is why my 360 has started to RRoD in the last few days?

I got one of the first ones available in the UK and it's been fine until now. On friday it started to RRoD pretty much on alternate days, with no way to persuade it not to except leaving it. A dodgy, rushed low-level code update could explain its behaviour....

Re:An Unfortunate Example of Well Built DRM In Act (1)

Roxton (73137) | more than 4 years ago | (#29104163)

I wonder if this update is why my 360 has started to RRoD in the last few days?

Quick note: For RRoD's, Microsoft has extended the warranty to 3 years. Free shipping both ways, and they give you a full one-year warranty to boot. All you need is the serial number on the unit.

Re:An Unfortunate Example of Well Built DRM In Act (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#29104507)

Unfortunately I got mine about six months too early for that to be of any use to me now. But for others it may be useful.

Re:An Unfortunate Example of Well Built DRM In Act (1)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 4 years ago | (#29111853)

Nope. A bad bootloader replacement would be an instant 100% bricking. Besides, the RRoD has a specific meaning - something to do with the gfx controller I believe. You just got unlucky - my xbox360 died a couple of weeks ago after intermittently failing to start up. If you got one of the first ones available it means you were like me - you got one of the ultra-high-failure-rate models. DRM isn't to blame here, bad manufacturing/design is.

Re:An Unfortunate Example of Well Built DRM In Act (1)

Golddess (1361003) | more than 4 years ago | (#29103959)

the point of all of this is that this is an excellent and quite scary example of increasingly improved DRM systems being deployed. It's taken just shy of 4 years to crack open the 360 to just this point

Not being in the scene I could be widely misinformed on this, but I believe that all this did was close off a software exploit available to anyone with an unmodified 360. It did nothing to any hardware modchips.

Re:An Unfortunate Example of Well Built DRM In Act (1, Informative)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 4 years ago | (#29106149)

Because the ability to run unsigned code directly on the hardware (e.g. not sandboxed as a user of the OS) is both great for homebrew development and the fundamental building block of a pure software loader for pirated games, this development is going to scare the hell out of the bean counters and the department heads. They're going to have to deploy most (if not all) of the tricks left in their bag of countermeasures, otherwise inside of a year the 360 will end up like the Wii and the Xbox 1 - completely and utterly cracked open for piracy.

You DO realize that pirated xbox360 games have been around since nearly the beginning right? It involved a little firmware patching to the DVD-ROM drive, and then a burned game would work just fine on the xbox360 as if it was the original. Heck, even Xbox Live can work, so you get all your achievements and multiplayer.

How do you think all those people got caught with pre-release copies of games and subsequently banned from Xbox Live?

While running unsigned code is a good thing (and it probably took this long because Microsoft offered a sanctioned method of homebrew), it probably won't be a big piracy deal. Games will start using new APIs that require updates, and people will get sick of single player soon enough because Xbox Live requires people to update to the latest version. At best, you'll have local multiplayer, which probably works until your friends want to bring over their live profiles. The current generation of consoles (except for the most part the Wii) have stronger online multiplayer components.

That's really why the Wii was more or less the first to be broken, followed a long while by the Xbox360, and then soon the PS3. All the homebrewers broke the Wii because they wanted to run their code on it. Microsoft offered a method, so those people went away and did that, and Sony has Linux, again a sanctioned homebrew method. Microsoft's cost money, so there was a bit of effort to those wanting a free solution, while Sony's doesn't, which means those wanting homebrew on the PS3 outside of Linux will be the few wanting to take advantage of the GPU.

Re:An Unfortunate Example of Well Built DRM In Act (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29116267)

Well then I guess it is a good news that the newest PS3 "slim" will no longer support Linux.
I wonder why they are doing it, and I wonder if they'll even disable that on the older systems with an update, but nevermind this.
The important thing is that now the hackers will have a good reason to start trying more seriously.

Well, if your 360 isn't in the repair depot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29103531)

Yeah, homebrew, if your 360 isn't one of the 54% of 360s that have broken [consumerist.com] , with a long repair turnaround and substandard customer service.

(yes, I am aware that the survey isn't very robust, but still...)

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