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Xbox 360 Version of Champions Online Being Held Back By MS

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the ready-set-wait dept.

XBox (Games) 154

Tomorrow marks the launch of Cryptic Studios' new superhero MMO, Champions Online. It was developed for the PC and the Xbox 360, but the console version will be much delayed, according to Cryptic CCO Jack Emmert, because Microsoft is holding things up. "Microsoft's a big company, and they have to work out all the various issues related to MMOs. It just takes time for the big beast known as Microsoft to get moving. I really have no explanation other than that, because it's as baffling to developers as it is to everyone else," he said during an interview with VG247. The game itself is apparently finished, but Emmert isn't sure it'll even go live for the 360 by the end of this year. Square Enix developers made similar comments earlier this month regarding Final Fantasy XIV, which will be available first on the PS3 largely because it's taking a long time to work out how the game will interact with Xbox Live.

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More money! (2, Interesting)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 4 years ago | (#29267637)

I suspect MS is just looking for a way to get more money for themselves out of it. An MMO is something people will play for quite some time. They cna't let devs give away anything for free or allow people to spend anything less less than a premium price to game on the 360.

Re:More money! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29267795)

sed 's/well done, get ready for \(level [2-9]\)/would you like to purchase &1 ?/g' game.c > xbla_ready.c

Re:More money! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29267949)

yeah dude, mSFT SUx0r!!!!!

When Sony exert less control than you (4, Insightful)

MosesJones (55544) | more than 4 years ago | (#29267653)

You must surely recognise that you are on the wrong side of the debate.

The key question here is how will Microsoft Monetise this new games to make more money for XBox Live via the subscriptions that people take out for these games. They don't yet have the sophistication of Apple's App Store for content, subscriptions and upgrades so the choice is either allow more freedom (the Sony choice) or batten it down until you can develop, and enforce, something that ensures the money passes through your pockets.

Re:When Sony exert less control than you (1)

tgd (2822) | more than 4 years ago | (#29267993)

What does Apple's App Store offer that XBox Live doesn't?

You can buy games. You can buy add on content. You can buy media. You can even download demos and upgrade them in-game to the full game.

The only benefit I can see to the App Store is that I can see in dollars what something costs.

Re:When Sony exert less control than you (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#29271581)

More flexible pricing. XBLA games are priced in increments of 5€, indie games have to cost 1, 3 or 5€ and aren't available in many regions.

Sony - Exert Online Control? Are You Joking? (4, Informative)

MediaStreams (1461187) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268499)

What delusional fantasy world are you living in?

Sony has an online service that is more like the open PC gaming online model than any other console manufacturer:

* Free online play for all non-MMORPG titles

* Dedicated servers

* Open to mods and other free content from developers

It's Microsoft with the absurd grip on their online service that is continually causing developers nightmares in dealing with. It took Epic a half a year to rewrite/work around Microsoft's online service's restrictions to get the latest Unreal Tournament out the door after it had no problems whatsoever with PCs and Sony's PS3.

And these problems Microsoft is causing for Cryptic Studios is just the latest in other MMORPG developers before them.

Re:Sony - Exert Online Control? Are You Joking? (4, Insightful)

SilentChasm (998689) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268673)

While I do agree that the lack of a dedicated server feature is somewhat annoying, having the game manufacturer responsible for maintaining the online portion of the game I believe is a bad idea.
It might be the way it's done on PCs where there is no possible central authority, but on consoles there really should be some kind of coordination.
Take EA as the big example of developer run servers. A lot of their "old" online games no longer work online even on the xbox because they demanded to run their own servers. Other games, such as those on the original xbox not by them, still work.

Re:Sony - Exert Online Control? Are You Joking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29269555)

I think you misread the original post. He's saying that Microsoft is the one that's trying to control things, and that Sony is the one allowing more freedom.

Re:Sony - Exert Online Control? Are You Joking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29269869)

Now if only Sony would tidy up it's Libraries and Documentation.

Way to make a fool out of yourself! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268549)

"You must surely recognise that you are on the wrong side of the debate."

Are you that fucking stupid or just another pathetic fanboy desperately trying to spin yet more bad news for Microsoft towards another company?

Which is it dipshit?

Re:When Sony exert less control than you (1)

BlackBloq (702158) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269623)

They have an "app store" built into live where ads for new content is constantly pumped to you one click to buy. PS: You can buy live points all over the place. The only difference is that the game is tied to your Live account. This account has to be maintained by Microsoft. They can revoke it. Your login is the only one with the rights to the maps/games/expandtions. So another user on your console cant use your Halo 3 maps. Grunt.

Re:When Sony exert less control than you (2, Interesting)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 4 years ago | (#29270453)

>>The key question here is how will Microsoft Monetise this new games to make more money for XBox Live via the subscriptions that people take out for these games.

Actually, the XBL guys recognize that if people are already paying monthlies to get access to an MMORPG, it's pretty dick to also charge them for gold access. So IIRC, you don't need gold access to play a hypothetical MMORPG on an Xbox. Also, they have special rules that allows MMORPGs to break their normal rules on digital downloads, patches, etc. I watched a talk on it once at some game development conference. You can probably find it online.

I'm not excusing the fact that the entire notion of Xbox Gold accounts is a travesty - if I own Gears of War, AND I have a gold account, I still can't have my wife sit down and play with me. Or, rather, I can. But I can't also play with my two other friends online at the same time. Unless I want to pop for a Gold account for someone who is a very, very occasional user of the system. I've started collecting those 3-day Gold account cards and just using them, but it's, well, just really annoying.

I buy any game I can for the PS3 over the Xbox for this reason.

That's good news re: FF 14 (2)

butalearner (1235200) | more than 4 years ago | (#29267709)

I'm glad to hear Square Enix decided against screwing over PS3 owners again like they are with Final Fantasy 13 (holding back the PS3 release for a year until the 360 port is completed).

Re:That's good news re: FF 14 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29267855)

decided against screwing over PS3 owners
yeh, all 6 of 'em

Re:That's good news re: FF 14 (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29267933)

That's the problem.

You think you are in a position to be screwed over.

Self-entitled bitches.

Re:That's good news re: FF 14 (0, Flamebait)

ProppaT (557551) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268111)

You should thank Sony for that instead for driving the PS3 into the ground from the getgo. Why release a high profile title like FFXIII on a floundering system, loose momentum, and then release it on a healthy system a year later when people have forgotten about it? It'll do much better with a simultaneous release. Remember, the core fanbase of FFXIII will buy whatever system the game comes out on to come out on, but the large masses that will also buy the game will skip it if it's not on the system they already own.

Re:That's good news re: FF 14 (1)

grapeape (137008) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269017)

Umm the gap between the Japanese and the US/Pal versions of FFXIII is only 6 months which is actually the fastest localization of any FF game so far. Maybe you should be thanking MS for speeding things up??

AIDS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29267723)

They want to be 100% sure that it will give all of the playerbase AIDS, this kinda thing can't be rushed. AIDS is important for business.

What a surprise. (1)

Minwee (522556) | more than 4 years ago | (#29267923)

Gee, I wonder if Microsoft is working on publishing their own MMO for the XBox.

Nah, I'm sure I'm just being paranoid.

Re:What a surprise. (1)

toleraen (831634) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268535)

I look forward to Microsoft's return to working with Turbine for the release of Asheron's Call 3!

Re:What a surprise. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268769)

That's not even funny - Microsoft's "Live Team" stomped so hard on what was initially a decent game (AC2) it's a wonder that Turbine didn't call deliberate foul.

When will MS understand? (1)

Oblong_Cheese (1002842) | more than 4 years ago | (#29267941)

... that pissing off gamers doesn't make more money, it makes less!

Re:When will MS understand? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268411)

This is a console, a poorly integrated MMO will have disasterous consequences for many other future games. Microsofts Live experience is a big part of there console and hence ensuring everythign is right for what could be a huge genre for the consoles is far more important than delays in a single title and will also be far better for the consumer in the longrun. This is MS understanding that profit is a long term thing not a single title.

There's more on the table here than money... (5, Insightful)

popo (107611) | more than 4 years ago | (#29267943)

While I agree with those who believe that MSFT will milk this thing for every penny they can... there's more on the table here. Console MMORPG's are a potentially enormous genre -- both in terms of revenue and in terms of audience.

For years now, MMO's on consoles have seemed like a oddly absent category. Where are they? Why isn't _____ making _____ for the _____?

Sure there was Sega's "sort of" MMO, and a few others -- but they were MMO's for the console, not 'true' MMO's.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Microsoft, in some respects recognizes the huge-ness of what this title represents. Yeah, okay .. bring on the Vista jokes if you must .. MSFT has whiffed on the "huge expectations front" before, but a failure with XBL (as a platform) with C.O. would have repercussions across dozens of forthcoming MMO titles.

There's more on the table here than just the release date of one title...

Re:There's more on the table here than money... (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269195)

Sure there was Sega's "sort of" MMO, and a few others -- but they were MMO's for the console, not 'true' MMO's.

Not being an MMO player, I'm curious, what's the difference? Why doesn't Phantasy Star Online count as a "true" MMO?

Re:There's more on the table here than money... (1)

the_humeister (922869) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269427)

Despite the name, you didn't actually have to go online to play Phantasy Star Online.

Re:There's more on the table here than money... (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269837)

Because there was no MM in their ORPG?

At least that was my understanding of it.

So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (3, Insightful)

popo (107611) | more than 4 years ago | (#29267989)

Am I the only one who thinks the 360 is one of the few things MSFT has got right in the last few years?

I'm no fan of our evil corporate overlords but hell, I like my 360. Halo rules. Geas of War rules. And XBL is a well done online offering.

What? It should be free? Sigh....

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268043)

Geas of War rules?
Wha a twa!

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268071)

Yeah a fail rate of over 50% seems about MS's standard of "right".

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268139)

Well, say whatever you want, but at least they acknowledged the problem and corrected it. They extended the warranty for everyone, something they didn't need to do (and btw, most businesses don't). Look I'm no friend of Microsoft either, but that's no reason start bashing everytime.

I know you shouldn't feed the troll, but I'm starting to get tired by this everytime. Just look at the first comments, the only thing they say is:
1. M$ is evil
2. ???
3. Profit!!

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268409)

Well, say whatever you want, but at least they acknowledged the problem and corrected it.

LOL, how many years did it take to get acknowledged as a design defect?

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268511)

So lets see, you have a product where over half of them break 4 years or so into the lifetime of the console. Without a 360 people won't buy games, if they don't buy games the console dies and becomes unprofitable. The very -least- MS could do would be extend the warranty. Not only would it be a terrible idea publicity-wise (Vista being a failure, Zune being mostly a failure, Live never catching on, etc) but it would hurt them in the bottom line especially at the start of the consoles lifetime where they lose money per console.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268267)

Made up statistics for the win! Seriously, three kinds of lies, lies, damn lies and statistics. Yours is one of them. Or do you really think half of the Xbox 360s in the world really don't work?

Then why is Microsoft still in business? How much money do they have?

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (3, Informative)

TiberiusMonkey (1603977) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268431)

Made up statistics for the win! Seriously, three kinds of lies, lies, damn lies and statistics. Yours is one of them. Or do you really think half of the Xbox 360s in the world really don't work?

Then why is Microsoft still in business? How much money do they have?

Type "50% xbox 360 fail" into Google. He didn't make anything up, that's not a world wide number, but he didn't make anything up. Oh, and I know about 7 people with a 360, every single one has had his die and one of them lost over 6 of them in the space of a year. And to the anonymous poster above you, the very LEAST they can do with that sort of fail rate is what they have been doing.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (2, Insightful)

kurzweilfreak (829276) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268935)

Since my 360 has been fine for over 3 years with nary a problem in sight, I have to wonder that if someone has gone through 6 of them in the space of a year... maybe it's them?! I suppose it's not impossible that your friend has luck that shitty, but I do have to say that the odds seem to be against it. I just find it really hard to believe that 6 different machines died just sitting there. With that in mind, I then I have to wonder how much of that 50% fail rate is due to actual defects (which I'm sure is nowhere near a trivial number) and how many are due to abuse, improper use or positioning, etc. and blamed on "defects". I'm not trying to be some kind of MS apologist or anything, I just find that kind of failure rate due to defects to be a little implausible.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

grapeape (137008) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269077)

I just find it astounding that so many people take a very non scientific poll from a magazine without question. For what its worth, my launch 360 is still working (so is my 60gb ps3). I am however on my 5th PS2. Sony fanboys are quick to point out the 360's 3rod issue (and yes I know its real and exists) and claim that rebuy's is why the 360 is ahead, but are just as quick to brag about the 100 million PS2 sales without taking into account the rebuy's there. I know far more people with PS2's than 360's but I dont know a single one that is on their original PS2, they rebuy them when the laser dies or the power supply craps out because they have a big library of games.

Really MS's biggest flaw this time around was admitting fault they should have done like Sony last generation and said nothing, wait for the class action suits then make part of the settlement an agreement that they not have to admit fault of disclose the failure rate, it would have been alot cheaper than the 3 year warranty.

Get The Fuck Out Of Gaming You Piece Of Shit (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29269147)

"I am however on my 5th PS2"

Wow, 5. Funny how piece of shit Xbox owners always pick the number '5' when they spew the same disgusting lies about the PS2. Every fucking loser with an Xbox 360 wants to share his 'story' about how his 'Xbox 360 never died, but I had 5 PS2s die on my'.

Here's a clue loser. Almost 140 million PS2s have been sold worldwide over almost a decade. Some pathetic little shit in some minor story on Slashdot isn't going make anyone believe the PS2 or any other console has every in the history of gaming had hardware failures anything remotely like Microsoft's RRoD fiasco.

Get the fuck out of gaming you fucking piece of shit.

Re:Get The Fuck Out Of Gaming You Piece Of Shit (1)

Unoti (731964) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269535)

Nerd Rage [urbandictionary.com]

Re:Get The Fuck Out Of Gaming You Piece Of Shit (0, Flamebait)

grapeape (137008) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269619)

you want picture of them jackass? Why do fanboys get so bent out shape if anyone has anything go wrong. Its a fucking toy looser, I even stated that I keep buying them so evidently I do like having them. I dont know where the number 5 comes into play to set off your tinfoil hat. I have had 3 fats and 2 slims, all of the fats died from dre errors, my first thin just spontaneously stopped working (power supply I assume), the new one I have now is a silver slim and is working fine.

Sorry if it offends you that someone experienced problems with your beloved sony product but get the fuck over it. For what its worth I like my 360 and my PS3 well enough that if either did die I'd buy another one of those too...

Re:Get The Fuck Out Of Gaming You Piece Of Shit (1)

Jared555 (874152) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269887)

You do know the original PS2 did have a fixable issue where you could just turn a gear inside and save yourself from having to buy a new one right? I never had to do it but the PS2 is the only device I ever needed to clean the laser on.

Re:Get The Fuck Out Of Gaming You Piece Of Shit (1)

kurzweilfreak (829276) | more than 4 years ago | (#29270133)

Dude, no one really gives a shit who sells more of what. No one honestly cares about the history of this console or that company. It's either fun to play or not. That's what people give a shit about. Holy shit dude, what's your problem?

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

Jared555 (874152) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269867)

I have had one PS2 (release date purchase) which for a number of years was used heavily as a DVD player, moved around frequently, and was on 24 hours a day for weeks or months at a time. The only failure I have had was a disk read error and I just had to clean the laser for that.

I am starting to have some issues again but it is probably either the laser needing cleaned again or something needing readjustment after taking a bit of abuse.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269895)

I'm still on my first PS2. I bought that way back in 2002. The controller I got with the system broke (I, um, tossed it against the floor one too many times).

I'm still on my first Xbox 360 as well, but it's only a year or so old.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29270489)

I have a launch console and have two RRoD and a DVD drive failure. All have been repaired by MS at their expense. I paid for nothing and longest repair was 2 weeks, due to postage incident in which the xbox was physically damaged. incidentally also taken care of by MS.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

AnalPerfume (1356177) | more than 4 years ago | (#29271167)

"MS's biggest flaw this time around was admitting fault they should have done like Sony last generation and said nothing, wait for the class action suits then make part of the settlement an agreement that they not have to admit fault of disclose the failure rate, it would have been alot cheaper than the 3 year warranty."

Does this sound like a company with their customers interests at heart? Is this a company that deserves customer loyalty? Putting aside who it is, I'd personally shun any company who'd first seek to hide from it's own responsibilities, then blame others when hiding it no longer an option. This is a way of treating customers that the MS fanboys approve of? I understand the shareholders, they only want a return, regardless of the ethics or legalities of how they get their return. Many of the shareholders won't use an XBOX 360, so a 1 in 2 chance of getting a dud won't affect them.

Surely the right response would be to have taken the reports of fails seriously, spent some development resources on getting to the route of the problem, finding a fix for it then make sure all unsold consoles are recalled and replaced with the new fixed ones. At least then you can limit the bad experience your customer gets.

For those who use the "how would they stay in business if this fail rate was true" defense I say this: MS's Windows and Office license rackets are the major earners, they subsidies MS's attempts to get into and buy market share in other areas, from console gaming to search engines. Most of MS loses them money. If MS was a gaming company the XBOX 360 fails would have sent them into administration long ago.

The XBOX 360 looks like a very nice console, pity about the odds of getting a dud. At least gamblers KNOW they're taking a chance with their money, shoppers should have a guarantee that the vast majority of some product coming out of a factory is working as it should and has passed some decent level of quality control, so that if they get a dud it's rare, and the chances of a replacement for the dud also being a dud is something even a gambler wouldn't bet on. 1 in 2 is atrocious and should be investigated by trading standards. MS seem to have no intention of doing right by their customers as usual until their hand is forced.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

Unoti (731964) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269469)

Or do you really think half of the Xbox 360s in the world really don't work?

I do. It's easy for me to believe the numbers. I had one, exchanged it twice, repaired it once. Gave it to my step daughter, and her husband had it fixed. It broke again, and they repaired it again, then finally traded it in at a GameStop for a PS3. I imagine this scenario has been played out an awful lot all across the world.

Sure, it's just an individual anecdote, a single person's story. But let me guess: your life story doesn't feature a broken XBox 360.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (-1, Troll)

Fujisawa Sensei (207127) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268183)

Am I the only one who thinks the 360 is one of the few things MSFT has got right in the last few years?

I'm no fan of our evil corporate overlords but hell, I like my 360. Halo rules. Geas of War rules. And XBL is a well done online offering.

What? It should be free? Sigh....

I would rather not game than subsidize Microsoft.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

Keen Anthony (762006) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268323)

You're not alone. I believe Microsoft has always done a remarkable job in games. DirectX alone has been an amazing accomplishment. And Microsoft's development tools have been very good too.

Obviously not a coder (4, Interesting)

HannethCom (585323) | more than 4 years ago | (#29271205)

I agree DirectX was an amazing accomplishment. I can't think of any other API where you would allocate buffer and you had to constantly check to make sure that the pointer to that buffer hadn't been magically lost. Oh, I loved the sound API from version 5-8, and it was always going to be fixed "In the next version."

*Start Rant*

Actually that's not true, the Winsock API used to be so buggy you used to have to do error checking on operations which on any other OS there is no possibility of them failing. (I hear things are better now)

Also, if DirectX is such an amazing accomplishment, how come they had to make a version specifically for the XBox that is only partially compatible with the PC version? Why are they having to come out with a new version of the API every 6 months to 1 year? DirectX 9, 9a, 9b, 9c, 9d, 9e, 10, 10.1, 11

Why, if it's so amazing are so many companies switching to OpenAL for their audio?

Why did so many companies continue to develop for Glide when DirectX worked on all graphics cards?

The truth is that DirectX started out as a piece of garbage, and is slowly getting better and better. Microsoft was given the chance to work together to come up with a graphics standard that would be flexible and would be properly designed. It was called Fahrenheit. Microsoft was originally going to be a big force behind this, but did not allocate the needed resources, instead ramming DirectX 7 down our throats.

Microsoft does not want a good API. Look at the number of versions of DirectX there have been. Look at .Net. Microsoft isn't interested in making good APIs, they are interested in making good enough APIs and using their marketing power to ram it down developer's throats. After all, if they came out with a great version of lets say DirectX, what would be the point in developers upgrading their version of Visual Studio?

I most recently ran into this when looking into the contacts system in Vista. Here it was, this brand new system to centralize all our contact information in Windows. A new API that is only about 1.5 years old. No longer supported. No links to the new API, if there is one. I can't even figure out if Windows Contacts are just in Windows 7 for "backward compatibility", or if its meant to be be used.

Re:Obviously not a coder (1)

Keen Anthony (762006) | more than 4 years ago | (#29271303)

Actually, I've done quite a bit of programming, including game programming. I'm no DirectX guru, but I've used it effectively, and so have many others. It doesn't suck. But sure, it's not perfect. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "amazing", but then there's not a single piece of software out there that I can't find fault with if I choose to look for it; I just choose not to. And personally, I'll take DirectShow over VFW any day. Why are people using OpenAL instead? For the same reason people choose alternatives to DirectX whether it be OpenGL or something more targeted like ClanLib, SDL, or hell, Allegro: there was a reason to. Years ago, I preferred Borland C++ over Watcom. Everyone else around me preferred Watcom. I chose Borland. Was Borland the better compiler? No, but it did the job and I was happy with it. Enough said. Microsoft's APIs are pretty messy, but you learn to deal with it. I'm exclusively Mac now. There's weird stuff happening over on this side of the pond too.

It's been a while, but on Windows, I was most recently using the free VC toolkit along with a slew of stuff I pieced together - yes, including some of the tools from .NET SDK -- a debugger I think. I was pretty happy. I had my own IDE, and I was able to build on the command line happily. Sure, MS wanted me to upgrade to the latest greatest Visual Studio, but I look at these tools like I look at my cameras. Rarely do I *need* an advertised killer feature in a new camera. My current bodies do their job well because I learned to master them. If I were interesting in doing new DirectX programming, I would simply download the latest platform SDK and DirectX SDK and use it with my current tool chain.

I don't know much about the problems in .NET. I never made a .NET application.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

skingers6894 (816110) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268415)

I agree with you. I think most of what MS makes is pretty ordinary but I really like my 360, MS game studios and XBL.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (4, Informative)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268457)

Yes, the 360 is a "success", but also has terrible flaws. For one is its 50% failure rate (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/17/game-informer-xbox-360-at-54-2-percent-failure-rate/ http://kotaku.com/5339555/report-xbox-360-failure-rate-over-50-percent [kotaku.com] http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/24/microsoft-responds-to-xbox-360-54-2-percent-failure-rate-report/ [engadget.com] ). While XBL is fine for gaming, buying stuff with "Microsoft Points" is odd, unlike Nintendo Points or buying gift cards with Sony, theres no easy way I can find out what everything costs in US dollars. Etc.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

Rebelgecko (893016) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269717)

While XBL is fine for gaming, buying stuff with "Microsoft Points" is odd, unlike Nintendo Points or buying gift cards with Sony, theres no easy way I can find out what everything costs in US dollars. Etc.

Microsoft points are annoying, but all you have to do is divide the points value by 80 to get the dollars so it's not too difficult

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (2, Informative)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269949)

As far as I know, items only sell for the following amounts:

200 points is $2.50 (Indie games have this price)
400 points is $5
800 points is $10
1200 points is $15
1600 points is $20

and the amount of points you can buy at a time:
500 points is $6.25
1000 points is $12.50
2000 points is $25
5000 points is $62.50

I think that covers all the major amounts.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29270447)

Posting Anonymously.

I know of one game that sells things in game for 40, 60, and 80 points. Its the Fifa ultimate team expansion to Fifa 09. Basically a collectors card game where you can either play games to earn in game coins to buy card packs, or if you're lazy you can buy them with MS points. Just so you know I'm not affiliated with the expansion pack.

I'll make a comment on the MMO side of things. From my experience with commerce on both the PS3 and Microsoft systems, I don't think that Microsoft is set up to do subscriptions, at least I don't remember an easy way (or any way) to set them up. Setting them up on the Sony system is easy, basically selecting a radio button, and typing in how many days you want the subscription to be for, a few more button clicks and you're done.

From a programmer's view both systems are horrible. Both have good and bad points. One in my mind is better then the other to program for. One is also better to debug, and one you want to knock your head against the wall a few times: 'I just want to see what *@!#&#ing DLC is on the disk, why are you spending 21 seconds trying to talk to the *@&#$ing server if the *@#$&ing ethernet cable is pulled?' types of knocking your head against the wall. And then having to spend time redoing your threading model to try and work your way around the problems.

And of course when you get everything set up and how you like it, legal gets in the way. I heard of one project about to ship and one of the 1st parties coming back saying they want different legal text on the pop up before purchasing. When asked what the legal text is, the response is 'We haven't written it yet'. I could go on, and on about how you get almost no guidence from the 1st party about setting up commerce, and then getting bounced during submission because they can't make up their minds.

The Worst Console In History? 'Got Right'??? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268711)

The only console in history to actually be defecting in design with the RRoD fiasco.

The only console in history to ship with a storage technology that is smaller than the previous gen. 6.8gigs per 360 DVD compared to 8.5gigs for the PS2 and Xbox last gen.

The wimpy graphics hardware. Fucking shitty old Unreal Engine games are still considered 'amazing' on the 360.

Noisy as fuck.

Giant external power brick.

Idiotic online fees.

No dedicated servers for games. Lag, lag, lag for Xbox 360 online games.

Overpriced WiFi and other peripherals.

Can't use standard laptop drives, can only use the double the cost Microsoft drives.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268821)

Am I the only one who thinks the 360 is one of the few things MSFT has got right in the last few years?

Yes.

I'm no fan of our evil corporate overlords

Me neither.

but hell, I like my 360.

I don't have one.

Halo rules.

Iffy.

Geas of War rules.

Yes.

And XBL is a well done online offering.

Yes.

What? It should be free?

Yes.

Sigh....

Why can't you accept that it should be free? Everyone but Microsoft can do it for free.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

grapeape (137008) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269093)

Ever look at the number of demos on Live compared to PSN? Thats why its not free...Sony charges the developers while MS charges the customer, neither are "free" whats different is who is paying for it. Unfortunately Sony's model more often than not results in the developer not bothering to release a demo at all.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

Spit (23158) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268823)

I agree, I've never run Windows on my PC, always have some sort of *nix since before windows 95. But these new games sure are fun, and wine sucks for brand new games. (no offence wine crew)

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268873)

Am I the only one who thinks the 360 is one of the few things MSFT has got right in the last few years?
45.8% [slashdot.org] right actually. A device done right is a device that works isn't it?

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29269035)

You must be using an antiquated definition of "right" which I am not familiar with.

Re:So many typical /. MSFT haters here... (1)

RazorSharp (1418697) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269829)

If Stalin made Ferraris and sold them for $100 a piece I still wouldn't buy one.

You act like people hate Microsoft for the sake of hating them rather than because of the things they've done. Even the 360, the thing you claim they "got right," had a 100% failure rate on the day of release.

Champions Online is a great game! (4, Informative)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268057)

First let me start off with its strongest point: Avatar creation. The Avatar creation is very excellent. I've never seen one as good as this one where you can customize your character's looks. Many people spent over a half hour customizing their character in this tool. It is also a treat when you play the game to see new looks.
There is a high degree of character customization. Out with the Tank/Heal/DPS/Ranged/PETS, in with do it all if you know how. Some people like to pick skills based on their character, but you can pick skill all across the board if you like.

There is encouragement to do quests by a lot of experience in relation to grinding. You won't see much grinding in this game, but more of mission doing.

I fought a Super Villian with my friend the other day. He had turrets and minions. So we killed the minions, then turrets, then one of us would block while the other fought the villian. If we took too much damage, we could scoot around the many walls in his chamber and heal. I'm going to upload Youtube videos when I get bored, but I'm not bored. I'm level 30, and haven't died. Level cap is 40.

My last MMORPG that I really liked was Asheron's Call 1. I felt WOW was sort of a boring grind. Champions Online is a great game if your computer can handle it(need a computer in last 2 years with good video card). Finally: Flight + Ranged = New era of combat tactics. Super speed is really cool too, as if you go fast enough, you can run up 80% grade inclines too. I haven't tested out everything, but I really like this game.

Re:Champions Online is a great game! (1)

Joelfabulous (1045392) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268563)

I thought you were talking about the new Xbox Live "Experience" avatar creation at first... ;)

Re:Champions Online is a great game! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268667)

This review has been paid for and created by M$crosoft, thank you for reading.

Re:Champions Online is a great game! (1)

Clover_Kicker (20761) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268791)

How does the avatar creation compare to City of Heroes?

Re:Champions Online is a great game! (2, Informative)

Morkano (786068) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269769)

It sounds like the GP hasn't played it, but I have. The character creation is better, but not by a tonne. Here are the key differences I noticed:
1) Asymetrical choice for things like gloves, armbands, eyes, etc. You choose things that can be mirrored independantly if you want.
2) You can save the costume and load it again later. I imagine it's a jpeg with some metadata, I haven't looked, but it's really handy. Similar to Spore
3) You can only wear capes with tights or skin. No capes and armor or robot arms or anything like that. You can have wings and stuff with whatever though.
4) Seem to be less choices for cool armor/skin/jackets.
5) No auras
6) Still buggy a bit

So, it's a bit better for the asymetrics and costume saving, but there are a bunch of things that are worse. Like Champions in general, really. I had it pre-ordred, but I don't think I'm going to pick it up. CoH was a lot more fun.

On one hand, you can try out a new power before you have to lock it in. On the other hand, you can't actually see what powers are avaliable later without having one ready to choose and going to the trainer. When you create a character you have no way of knowing what's in the future.

The combat system is neat, having attack that gives energy rather having to stand around doing nothing. It's gives you an absurd amount though, you just stop your main for like a second or two and you're back to full. Not even worth worrying about for the most part.

The UI in Champions is what really did it in. It doesn't have a compas icon on your minimap to point to any missions, much less the current one. Same for team mates. You can't set a mission to be the active one for the group very well. There really doesn't seem to be much point in grouping for the most part anyway, everything is just killing things outside with other people. Too easy to quest-steal. The few indoor missions I ran into were really short, like two rooms.

I wanted to like it, I even thought about the lifetime subscription (you get a lot of benifits). I figured it was a sure thing as long as they didn't make it worse than the game they made before. They did. The whole time I was playing, I was like.. Why am I playing this when I could play CoH instead?

Re:Champions Online is a great game! (1)

quantum bit (225091) | more than 4 years ago | (#29270197)

CoH has had costume save / loading for a while now. Since last December I think.

Re:Champions Online is a great game! (3, Informative)

thesandtiger (819476) | more than 4 years ago | (#29270405)

You can double click on your quest and it shows you where your quests are by shifting your minimap. You can also hit "m" and it shows a larger map with the areas your quests are in circled in green - an arrow would be nice, but it's absolutely not necessary. I didn't play at all in the beta but got in with the headstart, and I have not had *any* problems figuring out where to go or what to do with quests using the built in features.

Quest/kill stealing is not a problem... everyone who does a reasonable amount of damage to an opponent will get credit for it. I've never once lost a quest to someone who "kill stole" or whatever.

You can also see "future powers" I believe by having it show "unavailable" powers in the power list. I am not 100% sure, but I think I remember doing this - it made things a lot easier.

Honestly, it sounds like your problems with the game stem more from not knowing the UI than the UI itself; there are weak spots, to be sure, but the things you mention are, by and large, not actually insoluble.

Re:Champions Online is a great game! (2, Informative)

thesandtiger (819476) | more than 4 years ago | (#29270367)

It's better and worse.

Better in that you have more different areas that you can change - face and body are much more customizeable, you can add more colors than COH allows, more material options, can even change finger/hand/feet a lot more. There is also the ability to change the "style" your character walks around with - in CoH, no matter how beastial you make yourself look, you're still mincing around if female, or sort of stomping about if male; in Champions, you can be "heroic" (kind of "Yeah, I'm badass"), average, or crouched around and kind of running on all fours like a beast. Also, the graphics are VASTLY superior to CoH.

Worse in that you don't have quite as many options with regard to patterns or wardrobe choices as CoH does. But, I imagine that will be getting fixed pronto as they add more and more options.

Overall, Champions is vastly more customizable, with the only shortfall being something that's obviously temporary, and not always in CoH's favor. For example, Champions gives you a LOT more non-human options, a LOT more options for various wing sets, capes to begin with, etc.

I've made a character who looks EXACTLY like Marvin the Martian (pipe-stem arms, comically oversized head), another that looks pretty close to Bugs Bunny (Marvin needs a nemesis...), made another that looks like a zergling, and so on. SO much more potential than CoH has.

The rest of the game is pretty fun, too :)

Re:Champions Online is a great game! (1)

LeadfootCA (622446) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269441)

City of Heroes has been doing all of this for 5 years now, fyi.

Re:Champions Online is a great game! (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269963)

Now, the real question is... is it just a rehash of City of Heroes?

How unacceptable of Microsoft... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268199)

...to actually require the developer to deliver a complete, bug free, enjoyable gaming experience BEFORE they ship it instead of sometime in the indefinite future.

CO is a very good game, but it's undergoing nearly nightly changes and by the developer's own admission the support for a gamepad controller is only half-baked at the moment.

So no way in hell is the game complete enough to pass the standards of any console game company, let alone Microsoft which has some of the highest standards around.

The standard PC philosophy of "just ship it, we'll patch it later" will not fly in the console world, even if the console vendors are open to the kind of ongoing incremental enhancements that MMOGs are known for.

G.

Re:How unacceptable of Microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29270129)

The standard PC philosophy of "just ship it, we'll patch it later" will not fly in the console world

Yes, when a console game is released with countless awful bugs (like, say, KOTOR2), it simply never gets patched.

Ya MMOs have a real problem with that (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#29270665)

It seems to be not only ok, but expected that an MMO will ship with MAJOR bugs. We aren't talking a little game play thing here and again or an occasional crash, we are talking sections of the game unfinished, major balance issues, massive server down times, etc. This is the standard it seems.

This wouldn't be a big deal if it was just bad ones. I mean there are bad single player games. There have been releases that were completely broken, like you couldn't even play to completion, on release and even after patching still very flawed. Ultima 9 would be a good example. However there are also single player games that are polished on release. They have no major problems of any kind. If they get patches at all, it is to fix minor random issues, or at add new content. Mass Effect would be a good example.

However for MMOs, well even the GOOD ones are broken as hell on release, and often there after. I mean over all, WoW is a pretty good game, good enough to get 11+ million subscribers (including me). It was also much better designed on launch than many, tested longer and so on. None the less, the game was a buggy pile of crap. There were mountains of problems that took months to sort out. Even today, any time a new content patch comes out, pretty much a guarantee that the servers are down all day with troubles. Even the top games are bad. The bad ones? Oh you don't even want to see that.

Well guess what? That really isn't ok. The release of an MMO shouldn't be the start of the "paid beta" period. No, finish that shit first, then release. Now I realize (given that I play MMOs) that the game is never "complete," you are always updating, adding new content, etc. That's great. However a game can still be in a finished state for release meaning bugs are ironed out, stuff is balanced, and the game world isn't half done and so on. You can then start expanding it from there.

Hopefully Microsoft can be a positive force in this. Hopefully they can force companies to release better quality MMOs. I'm not even after perfection, I just want to see them as good as good single player games. I want the first patch to be something that adds new stuff, not an emergency patch to make the game playable.

This is a GOOD THING (4, Insightful)

MrMista_B (891430) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268453)

What would you prefer, that this be rushed through without planning, server load testing, and figuring out exactly how it interacts with existing services?

Or, when it is released, that is works?

I prefer the second.

Re:This is a GOOD THING (1)

JacksBrokenCode (921041) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268663)

What would you prefer, that this be rushed through without planning, server load testing, and figuring out exactly how it interacts with existing services?

I'm afraid that's wasted sentiment on this board. The same people that are quick to bash MS for rushing the hardware and experiencing massive failure rates are the same trolls claiming MS is just holding this up until they can milk it for every last penny. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Re:This is a GOOD THING (1)

MrMista_B (891430) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268813)

Yeah, weird isn't it?

How the hell is spendingi money on compatibility and testing, and /not selling it/ during that process, 'milking it for every last penny'?

Bizzare groupthink going on in here sometimes.

Re:This is a GOOD THING (2, Insightful)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268859)

I prefer the second.

That's a given.

The issue is, Microsoft is being really slow about it. In a market that fights hard to get games released on time, it's strange that "planning, server load testing, and figuring out exactly how it interacts with existing services" would take so little time to get right on PS3 and PC, but so long on XBox360.

Re:This is a GOOD THING (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269605)

The jig isn't done, until Champions Online won't run?

Re:This is a GOOD THING (0, Flamebait)

MrMista_B (891430) | more than 4 years ago | (#29271363)

Well, the easy answer is that Sony doesn't care very much about the online experience on the PS3, whereas the 360, with Xbox Live, is very much built around that. Quality isn't fast, or cheap.

If Microsoft wanted to milk this, they'd release it now, in a buggy, laggy, not Xbox Live integrated state.

However, in this case, they're spending time, money, and fans goodwill, to take the time to make sure the game, on release, is good and working.

Why is that a bad thing?

Re:This is a GOOD THING (1)

OverZealous.com (721745) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269175)

What would you prefer, that this be rushed through without planning, server load testing, and figuring out exactly how it interacts with existing services?

Or, when it is released, that is works?

Both!

Where do you want to go... (1)

Alien Being (18488) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268503)

sometime in the distant future?

MMO? (2, Insightful)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268715)

I still the the acronym "MMO" sucks; shouldn't it be either "MMOG" or "MMORPG"? MMO would just stand for "Massively Multiplayer Online", which is somewhat lacking in the noun department.

Re:MMO? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29270819)

It's awkward because you think of it as an acronym. As an abbreviation of an acronym, it's not so bad.

Re:MMO? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29271281)

You could also go with "MMG" to preserve the length, as "massively multiplayer" essentially implies that the game is played online.

Re:MMO? (1)

Mage Powers (607708) | more than 4 years ago | (#29271357)

What sounds better?

Em Em Oh

Muh Mog

Also (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29268737)

I am sure Microsoft wants to make sure the xbox networks can handle it. They don't want tons of people to suddenly rush on and everything craps out.

Finally the console gamers have to wait (-1, Troll)

shemp42 (1406965) | more than 4 years ago | (#29268843)

firs off let me preface this....I have a 360 and a gameing PC. I find it refreshing that the console scrubs have to wait for once. Pc gamers are always getting the short end of the stick and have to wait for there version to come out. I.E. Battlefield 1943. Suck on that console gamers. It sucks when the game doesn't come out on your chosen platform, doesn't it?

Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29269317)

Are you this much of an asshole in real life, too? If so, I guess it's not surprising why nobody likes you.

Re:Finally the console gamers have to wait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29269383)

*first
*gaming
*their

PROTIP: If you're going to act like high-and-mighty Lord Douche von Bloodytampon, the least you can do is check your fucking spelling. Jesus Christ man.

MS? (1)

uvsc_wolverine (692513) | more than 4 years ago | (#29269627)

So...wait...Multiple Sclerosis is keeping CO from coming out for the XBox?

File this one next to the Team Fortress 2 exp. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29270493)

New hats, maps, weapons, taunts, achievements that will never see the light on my Xbox360 because I think Live can't handle it. While it can process hd graphics, it can't handle massive online games.

They need an Everquest :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29270633)

I loved playing Everquest Online Adventures on the PS2. Then EQ 2 and WoW came out for the PC and EQOA pretty much died. I would love for them to come out with one for for the xbox 360 or PS3. Life has been crazy for me lately so I've been a little behind since I quit EQOA a few years ago, but are there any current games for xbox 360 that are very similar to EQOA?

Thanks!

Finally! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29270837)

You X-Box fans will suffer what we PC gamers have to go through!
--
Not a coward, just a Karma whore

In what way do they depend on Microsoft? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29271489)

I'm completely ignorant in this area, and it probably shows. Cryptic Studio developed the game, Atari releases it. Microsoft makes the platform it runs on, but why do they need their cooperation to publish software for it?

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