EMC Co-Founder Commits Suicide 538
The Register is reporting that EMC co-founder Richard Egan has committed suicide. The article has an interesting look back at some of his accomplishments. "Egan had an amazing life, encompassing involvement in the Apollo space program, the US Marines, starting and building the most successful storage company on the planet, and becoming the US ambassador to Ireland. Finally, aged 73 and facing a lingering death, he ended the battle decisively and on his terms. He was never a shrinking violet."
"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
"Suicide" makes it sound like he was depressed. Sounds like this guy wasn't. He decided to go out on his own terms. He chose euthanasia. If only we all had such bravery when facing such a long debilitating decline.
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Insightful)
Most people fear death - a lot.
He, instead of scrabbling away and clinging to anything he could (and just making it longer) like many of us would, stood tall, squared his shoulders, and walked into it's maw.
That, is bravery.
Death, is the one final unknown. Our species seems to be wired into fearing the unknown. Death, being one of the absolute unknowns, is also one of the absolute fears. The man was not afraid of this absolute.
That, is bravery.
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Assuming the terminal cancer was the reason for his suicide, which is a supposition to begin with. The fact that he was caught up in a tax haven and the IRS was on his back ... well, one could imagine it can be a little more nuan
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Anyone concerned about leaving anything to his family would most certainly be concerned about the IRS. I have no idea what he was involved in but if it's large enough it's very easy to see why it could affect his decision. Better to check out and have the debt "erased". The IRS doesn't always do that, but sometimes they do. Furthermore, when you consider the cost involved in a terminal disease like lung cancer, it just adds more weight to the whole thing.
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I think the norm for good life insurance policies is that they cover suicide after an initial ~2-year period. This is apparently enough to remove most of the desperate schemers.
I only looked at so-called "cooperatives", as opposed to for-profit companies.
(Apropos of nothing: I still don't see the point of getting any life insurance as opposed to just investing, unless you do actually plan to kill yourself in 2 years.)
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A quote on Slate today said that elderly suicides had declined (roughly) 30% since social security was instituted.
When I looked over the star trek memory wall (http://www.trekkieguy.com/memory01.shtml), I noted that the deaths were
a) a collection of cancers of actors in their 50's
b) a huge amount of heart attacks of actors in their 60's.
c) a sprinkling of suicides of actors in their 70's.
d) and finally a few (really small number) of actors dying of old age in their 90's.
If I had incurable cancer and knew it
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I wouldn't choose a bullet. I think jumping off Half Dome sounds a lot more fun. Or seeing exactly just how fast I can take those turns in a motorcycle on Skyline, and then push just a bit more. Go sky diving and simply don't pull the cord. How about taking an overdose of some very fun drug while enjoying the company of a well-paid lady friend? Free-climb some way-too-hard slope without a rope? Rent a Corvette, and crash it at 170Mph. See just how far you can swim into the ocean, or just how far you can free-dive, and then push a bit further. I think I'd prefer any of those to a slow painful death stretched over months or years. You only get to die once. Might as well die doing something you'd normally be to scared to try.
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, I wouldn't choose a bullet. I think jumping off Half Dome sounds a lot more fun. Or seeing exactly just how fast I can take those turns in a motorcycle on Skyline, and then push just a bit more. Go sky diving and simply don't pull the cord. How about taking an overdose of some very fun drug while enjoying the company of a well-paid lady friend? Free-climb some way-too-hard slope without a rope? Rent a Corvette, and crash it at 170Mph. See just how far you can swim into the ocean, or just how far you can free-dive, and then push a bit further. I think I'd prefer any of those to a slow painful death stretched over months or years. You only get to die once. Might as well die doing something you'd normally be to scared to try.
Personally, I'd rather not be the kind of jerk that leaves a huge mess for someone else to clean up when it's time to fold up my affairs, but YMMV.
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To each his own, right?
I agree, the blood splatter mess isn't exactly the legacy I'd want to leave behind. I've spent my life making sure I'm well preserved, between bad food with lots of preservatives, and generally pickling myself with alcohol. Archeologists in 1000 years will dig up my body, and I'll look as fresh as when they planted me, even without embalming. I'll leave a lovely, yet well worn corpse. :) My friends will say "yes, he lived his life to the fullest, and
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The problem is that these all have varying degrees of potential failure. Jumping off Half Dome or skydiving and not pulling the chute? Pretty good chance you'll die, and quickly--but if you don't, there's also a high risk you live in agony for hours, probably destroyed so bodily that you couldn't even do anything to finish the job. And god help you if somebody saw it happen and called an ambulance that ended up saving your life. There was a story just a few days ago about an Australian quadraplegic gett
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
As an active skydiver, I'm asking you nicely to pick another one of those choices. It's no fun for anyone standing around the DZ on a nice sunny day when selfish fuck decides to use our sport as his means to kill himself. It's no fun having to watch the paramedics try to save their life when you can see in their eyes they're dead. It's no fun to see the faces of the children who just came to see mummy get strapped to some man and go tandem when they realise that shit on their shoes used to be a living person.
So do us all a favour, and fuck off.
I'll leave the other ideas to the active climbers, motorcyclists and others who you'd like to make shit for.
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I freedive quite regularly, and have experienced two shallow water blackouts. I can tell you, assuming you have done proper breathe-ups to rid your system of CO2 before the dive, it would be an extremely peaceful way to go. Both times I blacked out, I wasn't even aware of what happened until it was showed to me on film. One second I'm ascending, the next, out cold. No pain, no discomfort, no fear.
If I ever off myself, that is pro
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Actually, this is my favourite of my various half-assed suggestions. At one particularly hard point in my past (after a divorce) I was doing many foolish things, not particularly caring if I died. Now, 50 feet of depth isn't much for an experienced free-diver, but I'm only comfortable down to about 20'. The one time I dived down to 50', I looked up and thought "Well, this is it." But, it wasn't. However, if it had been, I was prepared for it - not upset or scared... actually more like thrilled. I was
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Your corvette crash - what happens if you just end up a paralyzed vegetable? Oops!
I've put some thought into this. I've determined that it's not so hard to die in a single-car accident. The trick is using a car which is early enough to have few safety measures and good engine output, while being late enough to be light-weight. A late ('78-81) second-generation Camaro SS or Firebird Trans-Am fits the bill pretty well: No crumple zones, no electronics to speak of to overrule your foot, plenty of power, lo
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
If you do decide to end it all, I hope you would have the courtesy of doing so in a manner that doesn't harm your bystanders. Every now and again, I get news about some jackass who decided he wanted to kill himself, and then went out onto the highway to slam his car into another vehicle or walk out in front of traffic or a train. I remember once witnessing the moments after a suicide on an opposing Metra Rail track. We had to sit there for 40 minutes as people came to spray the area. The passengers on the other train had to have been sitting there even longer. All I could think was, that guy was a real dick.
I'm not normally judgmental about suicide. But one shouldn't traumatize people or potentially injure or even kill bystanders in the process. That's just selfish.
When I finally do the deed myself, I wish to be in my nice comfy chair with a favorite drink, a favorite song playing, and maybe my TV playing some video that means a lot to me. I don't have time for displays of machismo, and I'm not rude enough to leave a bloody mess for someone to clean up after.
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Thanks from your local public servant!
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Interesting)
That, or he fears pain more than death. Most people fear pain, a lot.
He, instead of fighting the pain and clinging as long as he could (and affording himself the possibility of a medical breakthrough or a medical miracle), like many of us would, simply gave up and took his ball home.
From a certain perspective, that is cowardice.
Death is a complete unknown. Rather than face the pain he knows, clinging to another few years, days, hours with loved ones, he instead walked headfirst into what could very well be worse pain and debilitation (think any religion's hell), yet clearly in a desire to avoid the pain and debilitation that he knew.
From a certain perspective, that is stupidity.
I don't think we can really judge one way or the other, though. At a certain point, it's a choice between being a burden to your family as you slowly drift into a coma and then death, or cutting off all medical treatment (and thus bills).
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Informative)
My father in law is currently dying from terminal cancer and I reckon anybody who has seen it happen would look for a fast way out. What I am seeing now is almost indescribably horrible. I don't blame this guy one bit.
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My sympathies. I watched my father die from melanoma. Actually, he died from starvation. After months of intractable pain, he quit eating and starved himself to end his pain.
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
My grandfather died (ostensibly) from Parkinson's. My other grandfather died (also, ostensibly) from a stroke. I say "ostensibly" because neither of these things were capable of killing the men by themselves.
In the first case, the man's wits were always totally about him, but his communication and motor skills dropped to such a useless extent that he plainly felt he was a burden. He was very intelligent, and a quiet thinker: Someone you listened to when they talked, no matter how lengthy or succinct the conversation. My family kept him alive for years too long -- he was only going to get worse, not better.
In the latter case, the man's wits weren't always about him, but he was plainly aware that he was on his last legs and wouldn't be long in this world. He was an intelligent, outgoing, and very lucky reactionist who thrived on stress: Someone you listened to very intently, even if you thought they were wrong, because their thoughts were still very useful to absorb. My family kept him alive for years too long, as well -- he had more than one stroke in the nursing home, and had a long history of cardiac problems before then.
Both were accomplished (in terms of family reverence and fiscal good fortune). They lived good, honest lives, had their shit together, and were completely loved by those around them.
But, they lived too long. They were all used up.
Death is as natural as life itself is. It is an eventuality. One can either go out on one's own terms, or one can sap the Estate for all that its worth as the State sucks it all in to maintain "healthfulness" at everyone's (including the patient) detriment.
I hope your Grandpa-in-law does well with whatever comes.
(And for a disclaimer: No, death and suicide aren't always fair, and aren't always the fair means to an end. My own sister, whom I was also very close to, killed herself while she was still young and in rather good physical health about three years ago. Something about a hose, some duct tape, a 1996 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, a secluded garage, a bunch of cocaine, a lot of unhelpful friends, and an undiagnosed case of schizophrenia combined to make this happen. I wish I could've done more for her, and will probably regret that I hadn't for the rest of my own life.)
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
"Death is as natural as life itself is. It is an eventuality. One can either go out on one's own terms, or one can sap the Estate for all that its worth as the State sucks it all in to maintain "healthfulness" at everyone's (including the patient) detriment."
Great post, you summed that up well.
Whatever you do don't blame yourself for someone else's suicide.
I have been haunted by the suicide of my closest friend for 25 years. Same method too. It is always easy to see the signs after the fact, but virtually impossible in some cases beforehand.
Another of my closest friends died of breast cancer (Metastisised) at 32 a few years ago. When she knew the end was near she went out and partied real hard, and died 2 days later. At least she went out how she lived with great spirit-and the best illegal drugs!
If she had stayed in Hospital she could have probably lived for another month at most, and we her friends would have had to watch her die slowly and painfully. Her bravery in not allowing her friends to suffer with her for a month was incredibly moving.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Insightful)
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btw you are an idiot. suicide is for cowards (unless in protest). there is no honor in ending your life. Either you have the fortitude to see it through to the very end, or you don't. He didn't. Suicide doesn't diminish what he did
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How many people have you watched wither and die?
A few. They were helpless. Just like when they first arrived. There's a certain undeniable symmetry to it.
I refuse to accept your opinion on this matter, sorry.
Save your insincere apologies for your children.
No, Its Bull Shit (Score:2)
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In fact, they fear long and helpless suffering that precedes it.
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Interesting)
So every terminal cancer patient who doesn't commit suicide isn't brave? By trying to survive they're "scrabbling away and clinging to anything they could?" Sounds like you're saying all the terminally ill who don't commit suicide are pathetic cowards. What about the ones who endure all the pain (physical and psychological) and some how beat the odds (it's happened many a times)?
People who commit suicide all have their own reasons. I think the important thing is to not judge them, regardless of what their circumstances happen to be, as we'll never know what they were going through and the reasoning behind their decision. It's their life. They should have the right to end it if they want. It's really no one else's business.
But let's not try so hard to glorify someone' death that we start denigrating those with the will to live on. This guy obviously lead a very full life filled with many great & admirable accomplishments. Let's just leave it at that. His suicide was just the final period at the end of a fascinating life story. Our attention should be on everything that came before it.
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Informative)
You might want to review your logic textbook from college. From "p -> q", it does not follow that "~p -> ~q".
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
This really is a western attitude. Take a look at Japan, where suicide is considered an honourable death, even preferred over being a living failure. Buddhist cultures like Thailand or Cambodia, the reincarnation religions combined with life being cheap, easy for them to justify what we westerns consider absolutely stupid behaviour (Driving is the first thing that comes to mind) with "it OK, I come back, next life". Of course they don't want to die, but there isn't the absolute fear of it that we have in the western world.
The church is the biggest reason we have laws against suicide. Taking your own life is the only real power we have, to live or to die and the bible says that only God has the right to decide who lives and who dies thus suicide is a sin. We are trained to despise death from day one, we've built legal systems around this making it "wrong" to take your own life and even worse to spare someone pain by assisting suicide (Euthanasia). So by this logic, suicide is not considered bravery, on the contrary it is selfishness and I suppose that it is to an extent but it is the one bit of selfishness we should be entitled to.
I applaud this person for choosing when he was to die. I too would rather end it quickly then become an inconvenience on others with a terminal illness, plus I'd get to organise a really big party before I go (a bit morbid yes, but so is a funeral). Also look up Einstein's death [wikipedia.org] he too also chose to go with a bit of grace by refusing life exending surgery. quoting Einstein,
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, because people left behind would never get screwed up seeing you die slowly and painfully, weezing (quite literally) your last in some hospital ward as you gradually lose control of your bodily functions. That would obviously be much less traumatic for them than putting your affairs in order, saying goodbye with dignity and making a (relatively) clean exit.
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
You shouldn't have posted A/C. You're very much right.
I saw my dad dying. It wasn't pretty. My last memories of him are in the hospital bed, which I'm sure wasn't the way he wanted to be seen going out. He was military also, but he wouldn't have chosen the gun to the head route. He fought to the end, in disbelief that he could be dying. Unfortunately, there was a burial, and now a gravestone to prove it. His mantra was "it's indigestion", when in reality it was heart attacks, which took their toll. He was smart, and he knew the truth, but sometimes we'll ignore the simple truth when it's bad enough.
If he could have taken his last day on his terms (but not quite so messy), he may have taken that route. But I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have, simply because he refused to believe it. At very least, he could have saved himself the last day of suffering.
My step son was almost luckier. He died quickly in the comfort of our home by natural causes (a seizure). He had already told us, he had no recollection of anything that happened during his seizures, so he was completely unaware of what happened. His mother and I were the first to find him, and despite the obvious truth, I performed CPR until the paramedics arrived. He was already rigor, but I refused to believe it. I did tell the 911 operator "he's rigor-like". Not rigor mortis. I refused to believe the truth, even though I knew better. The paramedics were kind when they showed up, but there was nothing for them to do but talk us through it.
Damn. I was having a good night. Now I'm stuck with the memories of what happened again. They never do go away, but sometimes they can be sidetracked with better memories of the people we loved.
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Less than a week before my father's death, he took off work early to go to a doctor's appointment with my Mom. On the way, the car got a flat tire whi
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
While I think Bill Maher is a misogynist dickhead, he does have one great quote on suicide.
It's our way of telling God "You can't fire me. I quit!"
The sad thing is this guy should NOT have had to go in a closet and blow his head off. Never ceases to amaze me how we euthanize animals on compassionate grounds, and yet we humans, we're expected to suffer.
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
we're 'expected to suffer' because relgion *still* dominates our legal system.
remove religion and there's zero issue with people killing themselves.
it really is that simple.
and yet its not. because people won't let go of explanations that let them sleep easy at night.
even ones we know are not really true.
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remove religion and there's zero issue with people killing themselves.
No, not really. It's usually the family and friends that suffer the most. I knew a guy with a 3 year old daughter that shot himself. That was some time ago, she's an adult now. I'm sure she still carried the scars with her.
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Interesting)
From Schopenhauer's "On Suicide":(Hollingdale's translation)
"Christianity carries in its innermost heart the truth that suffering(the Cross) is the true aim of life: that is why it repudiates suicide, which is opposed to this aim, while antiquity from a lower viewpoint approved of and indeed honoured it. This argument against suicide is however an ascetic one, and is therefore valid only from a far higher ethical standpoint than any which European moral philosophers have ever assumed. If we descend from this very high standpoint there no longer remains any tenable moral reason for damning suicide. It therefore seems that the extraordinary zeal in opposing it displayed by the clergy of monotheistic religions - a zeal which is not supported by the Bible or by any cogent reasons - must have some hidden reason behind it: may this not be that the voluntary surrender of life is an ill compliment to him who said that all things were very good? If so, it is another instance of the obligatory optimism of these religions, which denounces self-destruction so as not to be denounced by it."
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Religion?
Or a medical industry the brings in the lion's share of its profits from the last years of people's lives.
Short of being paralyzed you can kill yourself anyway. The's the cool part about killing yourself--even if it's illegal it's not like they can prosecute you for it.
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And if you think religion has more power over the minds of people in modern industrialized nations than the corporate economy, you're deluding yourself. I'm certainly not saying religion has nothing to do with it, but as I said in another post, look at our "justice" system:
It's cruel and unusual to kill someone but locking them up in a little room alone 23-hours a day in a maximum security penitentiary is "civilized"? Keep in mind, historically the "religious" were the ones most in favor of killing these gu
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
Doesn't surprise me. Until very recently, only the wealthy could afford the food/rest/care to even survive any serious illness. The problem of what to do with old people when the medical care is too good is a recent problem and our society hasn't cast its collective conscience's vote yet on what attitude to adopt toward human euthanasia. Eventually we'll reach a mature, stable decision one way or the other.. but you can't rush it.
Also there are a lot of thorny ethical issues. For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm." Doctors can't even prescribe lethal injections when a court orders execution; prisons have to get those drugs 'semi-legally' without going through a real doctor. Also there's the problem of whether the elderly will feel pressured to go to euthanasia (as seen in Soylent Green and Deus Ex) to spare the financial burden on their kids or society. And there's the catch-22 issue of sound mind: euthanasia candidates must be making a rational decision, but anyone petitioning for euthanasia is acting irrationally...
Obviously there should be a better way than taking a gun into a closet, but immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous.
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Well, if you went by the philosophies under which the US was founded then it's no one's business but the person seeking death. The problem are the religious busybodies who feel the need to butt in and interfere with people's decisions for the sake of their personal moral gratification.
Is not
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
With respect to whether forcing someone to live in pain and without dignity is a violation of the Hippocratic Oath -- yes, it is. This is why so many doctors nowadays are taking continuing education classes in chronic pain management and death with dignity.
Under current ethical guidelines, a doctor is allowed to prescribe any amount of narcotic necessary to manage the pain of a terminal patient, even if that dose of narcotic will hasten the patient's death. (The law has not caught up with medical ethics, but it's in the process of doing so.)
If the only way to manage the pain of your terminal illness is to give you a dose that will hasten your death, the AMA says that if you ask for it I am allowed to ethically give it to you. The AMA also says that I should tell you that very powerful drugs are available to manage your pain, and to encourage you not to live in pain. I can't force you to take the Fentanyl patch, but I can make sure you know you have that option available to you and that no one will think less of you for it.
Pain management, dignity, hospice care, etc. -- these are all ways medicine in the US is trying to balance the Hippocratic Oath against the indignities of terminal care.
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As someone who's watched a loved one go through leukemia, I think it's pretty obvious that oath is selectively enforced.
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Informative)
For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm."
First off, the Hippocratic Oath does not say "do no harm". It does say that doctors should not do assisted suicides, perform abortions, or perform surgery. Luckily, doctors don't take it any more and haven't in my lifetime. I'm not sure why people think they do. Some take substitute oaths, like the Declaration of Geneva;* others take no oath.
immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous
"Immediately"? That's a topic that's been up for debate throughout all of recorded history. Which is why the Hippocratic Oath mentions it. Generally, it's been shot down by religious leaders in western cultures because suicide is a sin. It'd be awful nice if we could get past the argument that an invisible fairy will get mad at you and address it as two questions: Does a person own his or her own life, and if so, under what criteria is suicide appropriate? For example, I could see not allowing someone suicide due to schizophrenia because it interferes with rational decision-making. I could also see it a no-no for the parent of a minor child, under the assumption that his or her duty to the child supercedes any rights to opt outta life. But just screaming that it's wrong isn't gonna last in today's secular political climate.
* Which also does not say "do no harm", but does say "I will maintain the utmost respect for human life". On the flip side, the doctor also promises to never violate human rights - some would argue that the right to die at a place and time of one's own choosing is a human right.
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The hippocratic oath includes "to abstain from doing harm"
I didn't know that they didn't take it anymore, thanks
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Interesting)
Speaking from a country that has had legal euthanasia for quite some years already:
"For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm.""
Inappropriately lengthening peoples lives and pain in the case of a severe illness can be construed to be doing harm. Doctors are used to keeping people alive and using this as a metric for their effectiveness. Maybe there should be a bigger focus on quality of life and less on plainly being alive.
Also, keeping someone alive because of your own personal (religious) beliefs is morally objectionable if the patient does not share these beliefs.
I'll leave to the readers imagination what I think of the moral implications of the problems in applying the death penalty as you describe it.
"Also there's the problem of whether the elderly will feel pressured to go to euthanasia (as seen in Soylent Green and Deus Ex) to spare the financial burden on their kids or society."
First, get a decent healthcare system to spread the costs. It seems every discussion on slashdot heads in the direction of the US healthcare system lately, maybe there's change in the air.
Secondly, financial considerations are also weighed by medical staff in the decision to use a certain treatment to keep someone alive or not. This is one of the most serious dilemma's we'll face in the decades coming: how much is a life worth or how much is another year of living worth. This stems directly from the invention of new and costly medical treatments and this issue will be important, regardless of legalizing euthanasia or not.
"And there's the catch-22 issue of sound mind: euthanasia candidates must be making a rational decision, but anyone petitioning for euthanasia is acting irrationally..."
I see no paradox here except in your mind: why is petitioning for euthanasia irrational?
"Obviously there should be a better way than taking a gun into a closet, but immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous."
I don't think anyone is suggesting this. Do you? I think most people in favor of legalizing euthanasia have a very sound idea of what checks and balances should be in place to prevent misuse. I know there are many safeguards in place in the dutch system for legal euthanasia and I think the practice is widely supported and considered far superior to blasting ones brains out in desperation.
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exactly, firearms are often used on impulse. Which is why they are dangerous to keep lying around the house.
He could have checked into a hospice, etc.
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"Suicide" is a word - whether you connect it to depression or not is your own twisting of the term. If you kill yourself it is suicide, plain and simple. That can be good, bad, accepted, or non-accepted, but the term itself doesn't care. I could equally say that "euthanasia" sounds like he was gassed to death, when in reality he shot himself.
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You know, when I go, I want it on my own terms too. Shotgun to the head? That wouldn't exactly be my choice. I'm thinking of a nice IV morphine cocktail, heavy on the morphine. Quick, painless, and you're gone. Not that I'm thinking of an out, but sometimes you consider what the options are. I could live painfully in hospice care for weeks or months, or go to sleep and never wake up. If/when the day comes, I hope a doctor will be kind enough to to leave it by my bedside and walk away f
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Suicide Rate in Japan (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a curious pattern in the suicide rates. The rates among ethnic groups who built the most prosperous, high-quality societies (i. e., Western societies) are the highest in the world. The rate in Japan and Europe is much higher than the rate in, say, Nigeria. Most African nations do have shockingly high death rates, but that is due to murder. Suicide is quite uncommon in Africa.
What Richard Egan did is very Japanese. He concluded that his life would be a burden on his family, his friends, and himself. So, he chose to die by his own sword. He died with honor.
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Actually, the suicide rate is much higher than that here in Japan. Due to the fact that a fair amount of deaths are officially classified as something other than suicide.
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"What Richard Egan did is very Japanese. He concluded that his life would be a burden on his family, his friends, and himself. So, he chose to die by his own sword. He died with honor."
Very reasonable response.
Contemplate, after you KNOW what it looks like, the slow, horrible deterioration of mind, body, or both that is normal with the infirmities and diseases of age. If you live long enough, you are vastly more likely than not to be crippled and mad (not the happy sort of "mad"). Hmmm, do I want to die in
Re:Suicide Rate in Japan (Score:4, Informative)
I'm pretty sure you're implying China or India, and you have check your facts. Their economies may be large and successful, and some part of the population may be well off even by western standards. However the majority of people, both in China and India live in abject poverty, and their economies are creating ecological disasters of enormous proportions.
Check out this list, http://geography.about.com/cs/worldpopulation/a/mostpopulous.htm [about.com] where the countries are listed by population size. Except for the western countries, every single other one has at least one major issue, besides poverty for a majority of the people, that precludes it from being a success. For instance Brazil is destroying the rain forest, Pakistan is anything but politically stable and large portions are controlled by the Taleban, Nigeria is destroying the Niger delta for oil, and so on.
Re:Suicide Rate in Japan (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
"Poverty" as it's generally discussed in the United States is a political term that bears more or less no relation whatsoever to the meaning of the term when used in any other context. You may as well be having a totally different discussion.
In other words, this is a problem with language that Wittgenstein shed some light on [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
As a westerner you've also more time to reflect on live itself. If you are continuously struggling for your life, ending it is not something that comes into your mind easily. You can't be trying to get a living while reflecting upon it too much; it brings too much indecisiveness with it. Also, if you are very religious, you are required to have a goal and not to do sinful things like killing yourself.
So it's not just the length of life that matters. I think most people in Africa that don't die as a child ge
Re:Suicide Rate in Japan (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know, but I suspect he doesn't need a Wii, he needs you.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, please read the article. He was suffering from Stage 4 lung cancer, diabetes and high BP. I'm no doctor, but that looks fairly terminal to me. Why the fuck should I hang around as a vegetable?
Suicide is devastating to those who care, yes; but in this case at least, there's no selfishness. He saw that he was beyond extended support; and decided to go. Committing suicide takes a phenomenal amount of courage, and/or some mental instability. In this case, it seems to be mostly the former. Rest in Peace.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Suicide doesn't take courage by default. Often times it's a chicken shit's way out. However, in the case of being old and terminal, it's common place in a lot of older cultures to simply "leave the tribe" so you're not a burden anymore. In industrialized nations have become oddly life obsessed to the point that it defies reality. The old and sick can but put out and while it's perfectly acceptable to lock people in a maximum security penitentiary where they're alone 23 hours a day, killing them is "cruel an
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Funny)
Am I the only one who didn't understand a fucking word of the above poster's meaningless rambling platitudes? You sound like Mother Theresa. "Why help people? Just tell them to suffer in agony because it's beautiful."
I hope when you're confronted with that situation you can look at your pain-stricken loved one and tell them "toughen up you fucking pussy".
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So you would dismiss the effort of the runner who tears an Achilles tendon for not crawling on bloody hands and knees hundreds of meters to the finish line? Whether they finished or not, they would have more of my
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Insightful)
The only sad part is that our sick society is in such denial about the inevitability of death that he was forced to choose such a gruesome method rather than having the option of something more peaceful.
Being a man of quite some means, so to speak, it's pretty naive to think he couldn't have just hopped a plane to say, Oregon, and offed himself there neatly and legally. He blew his head off with a shotgun because that's the way he wanted to go out, clearly.
The EASY way out! (Score:5, Insightful)
What a coward! He should have faced his imminent slow and painful death like a man: by watching his dignity slowly fade away as he soils his bed and sobs uncontrollably about a life ill spent.
Wait, his life wasn't ill spent, so he realized that everything I just typed is bullshit. Society's attitude towards suicide is fucked up.
Rest in peace.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
What's with our obsession to praise and reward those who ultimately just take advantage of us?
Re:The EASY way out! (Score:5, Insightful)
"It is every American's Constitutional right to avoid paying taxes to the maximum extent permissible by law." -- Judge David R. Hansen, Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals
There's nothing wrong or immoral with reducing your tax bill. It's only wrong to do it in violation of the law. The IRS claims he engaged in a legal fiction to dodge taxes illegally. He claims he engaged in a legal fiction to dodge taxes legally. We decide who's right or wrong in the courts: we don't leap to judgment on Slashdot. (I know, I know, I must be new here. Check the UID, kids, I'm not.)
If the IRS is right, then yes, his actions were unjust. If he's right, then more power to him.
If you believe it's virtuous to pay more taxes than you absolutely have to, I'm sure the IRS wouldn't mind if you threw an extra couple of hundred on your check come April 15. Otherwise, let's give the dead the benefit of the doubt, and not declare him to have been taking advantage of us.
Re: (Score:2)
Given a modest space of time, and sufficient resources, it is possible(indeed common) to change what "the maximum extent allowed by law" is, either across the board or selectively. What then?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
(Hey, kids!: Quick poll. Who among you were completely honest on your IRS Form 1040 last year? Anyone?)
To the best of my knowledge, I was. Not only do I genuinely believe that you're a parasite if you try to take advantage of government services while paying as little as possible for them, but I'm not a fan of lying to save/make a buck (aka fraud), and I'm not a big enough gambler to think that a few bucks here and there is worth up to $100,000 and 5 years in prison.
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The first step is to run your own business where the taxes are lower. Everyone plays the same game. Take the best position. It's never easy in the beginning though, partially for the taxation reason. I'm a fan of eliminating income tax all together. It makes zero sense to punish productive behavior.
Re: (Score:2)
That attitude stems from the people left behind. Maybe he prepared them, but they still live on and most people don't take a suicide of a loved one well. Maybe one day I'll face the same decision, but I doubt I'd kill myself because it would destroy my loved ones. I know what it's like to see a loved one perish in the hospital and I also currently have to assist in the care of my grandfather who's brain checked out long ago. It's not "dignified" but it is natural. Not all of life is pretty. Some of it is do
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
No. Not to be cruel, but it's _not_ natural. If this were in some earlier time frame, or a less "technologically advanced" environment, your relative would've been consumed by some other predator by now. It's _un_natural to develop the technology to prolong a life beyond its natural usefulness; ie. into a vegetative state. We are completely skull-fucking the "natural circle of life."
If this post comes across as unnecessarily cruel, forgive me: I'm drunk on Bacardi 151, right now, and probably shouldn't
Re:The EASY way out! (Score:4, Insightful)
There's two (well, more than that, really) sides to the suicide coin.
1. You have men like this. Men who have seen that which they have wrought, and found a life well spent. Rather than wither away and die as you say, these people deserve an 'easy out.'
2. Then, you have the "oh woe is me" crowd, where suicide is the cowards way out - because it's easier to kill themself than deal with their problems - consequences to everyone else be damned. A selfish, cowardice-ridden exit.
3. Also, you have those who genuinly have something wrong with their mind that pushes them to it. You can't blame someone for something external pushing it down on you like that.
4. Finally, unless there are more I'm too tired to think of, you have those that go for a good cause. The good soldier diving on a grenade. Sacrificing one's self for the good of many, etc - the true altruistic finale.
I think the problem is that most people hear 'suicide' and think of group #2 above, to the exclusion of all else. If only the world was that defined into black in white.
Re: (Score:2)
Given the strength of both instinctive and cultural revulsions toward death, and the overwhelmingly numerous examples of people willing to endure pretty miserable conditions and near-nil hope of improvement; I'd say that it takes a very special kind of coward to prefer death, self inflicted, to dealing with other probl
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It depends. Truthfully I think there is no real distinction between #1 and #2 in your post. Reality is we all die eventually, so everyone who commits suicide is speeding up the inevitable, but in both #1 and #2 both people have problems. Death will get both eventually so saying "I'm going to die anyways" doesn't do much. Why do some people's problems (cancer) become a good enough reason to kill one's self whereas other people's problems (a lost job for example) not get the same consideration, and they g
OK, I'm a sicko, I admit it (Score:4, Funny)
Solaris budget concerns?
You have options!
Advert on the El Reg page announcing "EMC co-founder kills himself".
Never forget. (Score:3, Funny)
May his memory live on forever in our... network attached storage devices.
Re:Never forget. (Score:4, Funny)
And just like that, his life was gone into flash.
Did he have to pick such a messy method? (Score:2, Insightful)
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There comes a time -- in every man's life -- when he must take splatters into his own hands.
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He got on the bus (Score:4, Interesting)
He used the Hunter S. Thompson method, large caliber to the head approach.
In the same situation I would have gone to a nice comfortable hospice facility in a nice liberal country where they would have kept me comfortable until it was all over. With an army of lawyers to keep family and business associates at bay. He did have the money for it after all.
In case anyone is considering it, firearms are *not* 100% guaranteed. High probability, yes. Guaranteed, no. You can maim yourself, cause blindness, brain damage, have to eat through straws etc. Due to the circumstances we may not know exactly how long it took him to die.
Another bit of advice, make sure you get your living will and medical power of attorney put together. I've been in a situation where we just *barely* got the medical power of attorney signed in time. Without it it would have been an even worse nightmare than it was.
Re: (Score:2)
Firearms to the head in general are not 100% guaranteed (I know a guy who was shot 3 times in the head and survived, albeit with severe brain damage - but it was a .22LR). Sufficiently large shotgun to the head? Pretty much guaranteed (as long as you're not a dolt and stick it under your chin rather than actually at the side of your head). Question is how presentable you want to be at your funeral, for people who care about it. A 12ga isn't going to make you look too pretty. That may sound petty, but i
Re: (Score:2)
"...and a primary motivation is often not wanting to mess themselves up for their funeral."
My method of choice is head first into a chipper-shredder. Possibly aim the output over the bay for the fish and crabs to enjoy.
Re:He got on the bus (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't hurt. In fact, it'll probably be the best feeling of your whole life.
If it doesn't work, you're not screwed up, missing body parts, having to explain scars, or a drooling idiot. You're completely fine, and have a chance to try again.
And, most importantly, if it does work, your friends and relatives don't spend years asking themselves "could we have stopped it? Was it something we did?" and will instead say "geez, I sure miss that person, never would've thought s/he was a junkie." Which is a far, far nicer thing to do to all the people you care about than a messy suicide.
Another Reason to Support Assisted Suicide (Score:4, Informative)
My grandfather took that very option (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm one of the Oregon voters who voted twice for Death with Dignity, and am very glad that my grandfather was able to die at his own choosing, in a humane manner. (I don't think having to grab a shotgun and shoot yourself in the head, plus knowing others will find you and have to witness the scene, is humane - I say it not against Egan, but because I wish Egan had had a better choice.)
EMC (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICS! MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICS!
The parasitic life form screamed. It yanked at the pain centers and ticked at the pleasure center.
WHY DON'T YOU MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICS, DARLING?
The right brain felt the rumblings decided to make it about politics for the potential reward. The left brain agreed and began to spin together a narrative. It wasn't cohesive but it's enough for an impulse.
The human considered for a moment. "Oh, wow, a guy killed himself in the UK because he had terminal cancer. What a