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Microsoft Attacks Linux With Retail-Training Talking Points

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the only-barely-worth-refuting dept.

Linux Business 681

DesiVideoGamer writes "Over at Overclock.net, a user has posted screen-shots from Microsoft's 'ExpertZone' training course entitled 'Linux vs. Windows 7.' This course is available to BestBuy employees and will make them eligible for a $10 copy of Windows 7 upon completion." The screenshots linked show at least some creative interpretations of the state of Linux vs. Windows on a wide range of things, from media playback and video conferencing to ease of updates to (of all things) keeping your PCs "safer." Most of the claims, though, aren't concrete enough to be perfectly refuted. Writes DesiVideoGamer, "I think I now know why, when I enter BestBuy, the employees say the odd lies that they do."

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Sign me up... (5, Funny)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325323)

This course is available to BestBuy employees and will make them eligible for a $10 copy of Windows 7 upon completion.

I'll take the damn course if it'll get me a $10 copy of Win 7.

Re:Sign me up... (5, Insightful)

Mr. Freeman (933986) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325339)

I can get a free copy of windows 7 and I don't have to take any bullshit propaganda course.

It's completely unethical for bestbuy to go along with microsoft on pushing this course onto their employees. Though I can't say I'm surprised.

Re:Sign me up... (2, Insightful)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325475)

Err, selling Windows Netbooks over Linux Netbooks makes perfect sense for them. They're more expensive and thus have higher margins.

Re:Sign me up... (4, Informative)

NotBornYesterday (1093817) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325811)

More expensive doesn't always mean higher margins. That's only the same if the markup is proportional to the cost, which it often isn't.

Re:Sign me up... (5, Funny)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325781)

Why is parent modded troll? If this were the Catholic Church, or the Church of Mormon proselytizing for members, Americans would go after them for violating our freedom of religion laws. If this were a Democratic maneuver for market share, the Republicans would be up in arms. But, it's alright for MS to recruit people to lie to consumers. Parent should be applauded for exercising restraint when he uses the word "unethical".

Re:Sign me up... (4, Insightful)

NotBornYesterday (1093817) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325851)

I noticed several mild comments in this thread hit with -1, Troll. I think the MS astroturfers have mod points. The joke is on them; if they use up their points now, there will be nothing left later when the really nasty anti-MS stuff comes out.

Re:Sign me up... (2, Interesting)

Gruff1002 (717818) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325349)

It's all about the almighty dollar. You think there aren't kickbacks involved.....

Re:Sign me up... (5, Funny)

NotBornYesterday (1093817) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325377)

"Kickbacks" is a dirty word. The Microsoft world prefers "back-end rebates" and "spiffs".

Re:Sign me up... (3, Funny)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325593)

They also prefer the word "Rimjob"

Oh, good. Free advertising for Linux. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325373)

I wonder how many Best Buy employees will sell their copy of Windows 7?

The Microsoft course has the effect of making ignorant Worst Buy employees more aware of Linux. Even ignorant employees probably know enough not to trust Microsoft.

Re:Sign me up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325397)

You can have it...

Re:Sign me up... (1)

iamhassi (659463) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325609)

"I'll take the damn course if it'll get me a $10 copy of Win 7."

should have signed up for the Live Launch event and got a free copy [microsoft.com] .

At any rate, does anyone think Microsoft is giving Linux too much publicity? There's people out there that wouldn't dream of running linux, and when they're asking questions wouldn't it be easier to say "I don't know, never heard of it" then have some tech person jump all over them with a barrage of answers?

I'm just thinking, if there was this product I heard of and I asked a Best Buy employee about it and they suddenly go on this huge tirade about how horrible it is and how I should stay away from it, that'd make me more curious than anything. But if they replied "don't know, never heard of it" I'd figure it must be nothing.

I think this is the wrong approach M$. Don't worry about mom & dad getting Linux, you need to worry about the businesses. Long as their job uses M$ they're not going to switch at home, but if they go to work and they're trained on this wonderful OS and they enjoy it then you'll be in trouble.

If I was M$ I would make sure every business, from 3 people up to thousands, switched to Windows 7 ASAP and give them free training (very important!). Once employees have it at work and they're properly trained on it they'll never look at XP or Vista at home the same way, and most people would probably plop down $400+ and get a new laptop or PC rather than spend $200-$300 just to buy the OS.

Hey Dell, get in on this, it'll help you sell computers and laptops too.

Re:Sign me up... (0)

iamhassi (659463) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325727)

"I think this is the wrong approach M$. Don't worry about mom & dad getting Linux, you need to worry about the businesses. Long as their job uses M$ they're not going to switch at home, but if they go to work and they're trained on this wonderful OS and they enjoy it then you'll be in trouble. "

since i gave M$ advice, I'll tell Linux how to beat M$: make a app store. I know, stupidly obvious, but there isn't one built into ubuntu. Needs to be as simple as iTunes Store, and everything just needs to just work, no compiling code or anything crazy. Fill it with tons of free software and M$ product equivalents like OpenOffice.

The iPhone is only successful because of it's app store, without a easy way to find guaranteed compatible software no one would buy an iPhone. That's the only reason I'd switch from my Blackberry, because I'm tired of the small selection of programs and the high prices ($10+, compared to $2 or $3 on iphone) of most software

Re:Sign me up... (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325815)

since i gave M$ advice, I'll tell Linux how to beat M$: make a app store. I know, stupidly obvious, but there isn't one built into ubuntu. Needs to be as simple as iTunes Store, and everything just needs to just work, no compiling code or anything crazy. Fill it with tons of free software and M$ product equivalents like OpenOffice.

I run CentOS. Yum seems to work fine for 99% of what I need: No compiling code or anything crazy!

Re:Sign me up... (1)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325873)

> I know, stupidly obvious, but there isn't one built into ubuntu.

Applications -> Add/Remove.

Welcome to 1999

Re:Sign me up... (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325883)

Linux has the free version of an app store already on most distributions. It's called the repository, and available under various, usually graphical, means with the big vendors. For instance ubuntu/debian calls it synaptic.

The problem is that it has a whole slew of free software of varying levels of quality that really don't fully match the functionality of any commercial software at all. (openoffice is in there, and it does a pretty good job, though. There are always a few gems.)

Now, ubuntu pares down the choices into the add/remove menu, as well, but you're absolutely right that there's nothing like a commercial app store on there.

Side note, and I'm sure you meant to include this: all software updates should go into the distribution provided repository system regardless of whether that software was free or purchased through the app store, so the system updater can centrally handle everything. Users shouldn't have to go hunting around in each package for the check-for-updates menu item (or worse: search web sites manually for updates.)

Re:Sign me up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325887)

I'll tell Linux how to beat M$: make a app store. I know, stupidly obvious, but there isn't one built into ubuntu.

Um, Apt? It's built-in and it's all free.

One suggestion I do have to improve things for noobs would be to make Synaptic slightly friendlier (e.g. screenshots, etc).

It is called apt-get (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325915)

I'll tell Linux how to beat M$: make a app store. I know, stupidly obvious, but there isn't one built into ubuntu. Needs to be as simple as iTunes Store, and everything just needs to just work, no compiling code or anything crazy. Fill it with tons of free software and M$ product equivalents like OpenOffice.

There has always been one. It is called apt-get. There are graphical user interfaces (synaptic package manager, for example) to it too. Loads of free software that just works. I don't see how one could beat it. (I guess it could be linked to some service where users can comment on the software, etc. if one wants to, but meh.)

It is not as if Apple invented the concept.

Re:Sign me up... (1)

mwbeatty (1401881) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325919)

You obviously have never used Ubuntu. If you had you would know that Ubuntu includes OpenOffice as part of its standard install and features both the Synaptic Package Manager and the Add/Remove option for software, the latter having pretty pictures for those who need them. You're right that it's a check in the pro column for Ubuntu but it definitely hasn't allowed Linux to "beat" Microsoft.

Re:Sign me up... (2, Insightful)

jack455 (748443) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325797)

Exactly. I have a sales background and think this is funny. They're implying that win7 vs linux is a reasonable choice. They're talking about built-in support for devices which people might remember having to install a cd to run. If people even know what Linux is I'm sure it was from someone (probably more knowledgable) saying Linux is more secure even if it was followed up by a critique of Linux. My friend that I work with as a sysadmin is very pro ms but wouldn't buy half the stuff in these slides.

Biggest point of them all (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325347)

No profit in free. What's the cheapest way of getting Windows 7? Buy a new computer. Who sells new computers? BestBuy. How do you get Linux? You download it for free and install it on your existing computer. Who doesn't sell you a new computer? BestBuy.

Re:Biggest point of them all (2, Insightful)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325457)

What's the cheapest way of getting Windows 7? Buy a new computer.

This is true. But...

With pre-loaded Win 7, all you get is a worthless "restore" CD. Running Windows really does require a full install CD unless you don't mind losing everything while reinstalling, which you *will* have to do now and then.

Re:Biggest point of them all (2, Informative)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325521)

Can't say i ever had to do that with recent versions of Windows.

May 2005, ThinkPad R52 with Windows XP
December 2006, Upgraded ThinkPad R52 to Windows Vista
March 2007, Replaced ThinkPad R52 with T60 running Windows Vista
December 2009, Replaced ThinkPad T52 with W500 running Windows Vista
Juli 2009, Upgraded W500 to Windows 7

Re:Biggest point of them all (1)

Erinnys Tisiphone (1627695) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325723)

Wow, that's actually rather sad. Just because a system runs doesn't mean its running -well-. You should really give reformatting a shot on one of your older machines - you will likely be amazed at the performance difference. Unless the only applications you have been running have been IE and media player since 2005, you've been accumulating years of registry errors and extraneous system and driver files. I do hope you defragment, at least.

Re:Biggest point of them all (1)

jack455 (748443) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325901)

That's what I'd expect as a winxp sysadmin. Worst I have to do is delete a profile. But I can't resist since one of my laptops is the same hardware:

T60 Arch Linux rolling upgrade pacman -Syu
T60 Arch Linux rolling upgrade pacman -Syu
T60 Arch Linux rolling upgrade pacman -Syu
T60 Arch Linux rolling upgrade pacman -Syu
T60 Arch Linux rolling upgrade pacman -Syu

(ok, I obviously haven't had my T60 since 2005 but the point is that Arch doesn't have releases just continuous upgrades. That's a smooth upgrade experience.)

Re:Biggest point of them all (2, Insightful)

negRo_slim (636783) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325461)

No profit in free.

I disagree.

Bribery (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325351)

This course is available to BestBuy employees and will make them eligible for a $10 copy of Windows 7 upon completion."
Isn't this supposed to be an illegal business practice?

Re:Bribery (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325467)

Attending marketing seminars for free stuff? I don't think so :)

Re:Bribery (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325469)

This post was marked troll when I replied - MS Shills, take note, your wails of victimhood impress no one, we know you're here and active. That said, it's likely collusion and it will not end well if they try it in Europe. Best Buy's employees aren't MS' employess.

Re:Bribery (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325557)

I have a stack of CDs & DVDs that were free for attending Microsoft training seminars: Office 2007. Windows Server 2008, SQL Server 2008, Windows XP, Visual Studio 2005... At those same seminars, every vendor is giving away free copies of stuff so that you will try it. This is widespread industry practice. You give away free stuff to get people's attention.
As for training people on how to sell your product, I can't think of any industry with salespeople that doesn't do this. Do car dealers start selling without any training? To the Verizon salesmen at BestBuy not receive any training on how the phones work and why theirs are better?

Linux? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325365)

Fighting for the bottom feeders here aren't we? Linux in its current state on the desktop cannot compete with Win7.
OS X can and does.

Re:Linux? (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325391)

There are not OS X Netbooks yet, though.

Re:Linux? (1)

moj0e (812361) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325479)

There are not OS X Netbooks yet, though.

:) I beg to differ! :) Well, you are right, there aren't any Apple sanctioned netbooks. However,
can you build one based off of Dell's mini 9.

http://gizmodo.com/5156903/how-to-hackintosh-a-dell-mini-9-into-the-ultimate-os-x-netbook [gizmodo.com]

Btw, I got the company that I work for to buy me a netbook w/ Ubuntu and it is very nice! :)
They did a good job polishing the OS :) It even included video chat software! :)

Re:Linux? (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325591)

Yep, but BestBuys salesdroids are not aimed at people building hackintoshes.

Re:Linux? (1)

agnosticnixie (1481609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325637)

Hell, sometimes it looks like Best Buy salesdroids are mostly trained to keep Best Buy's stock of macs unsold :p

Re:Linux? (2, Insightful)

negRo_slim (636783) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325519)

Linux in its current state on the desktop cannot compete with Win7. OS X can and does.

How exactly does OS X compete on the desktop once you consider even marginal gaming? Look at the department store value bins, the $10 section. People want their cheap maddens, their cheap puzzle games and for some reason their cheap Ghost Recon... Seems like DirectX is the de facto standard.

Outside of this one very specific issue I see both OSX and Linux as great alternatives to Windows. But unless Flash games are your end all be all none of these even try to compete. (and yes I am aware of what titles are available on these platforms, but it's far from an impressive list for either of them.) Once linux/mac software is available at Wal-Mart, then we might be talking.

Re:Linux? (2, Insightful)

Ma8thew (861741) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325735)

Once linux/mac software is available at Wal-Mart, then we might be talking.

You mean like this [walmart.com] ?

Re:Linux? (1)

agnosticnixie (1481609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325807)

Or maybe this [walmart.com] .

Linux is a big part of a multi-computer household. (1)

cwgmpls (853876) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325923)

The days when you buy one computer for everything are over.

I have four PCs in my house that run Linux for ease of maintenance and security on the internet. One for each kid and one for me and my wife

I have one Mac that I bought for iLife -- for photos and to make home movies. It is nice but I'm not sure if I'll replace it when the time comes.

I have one XP box -- P4, 2Ghz, 1 GB RAM -- that the kids can play thier $5 bargain bin junk games on if they want to. Occasionally they use XP to play a web game that requires shockwave. But they usually get bored with those games pretty fast and would rather play on their Wii.

I can find more than enough web-based games that work in Linux to keep the kids busy for ever, and they like playing their games on their own computer, rather than having to share it with their brothers. I can afford to give each kid their own computer since the Linux computers are free. I couldn't do that (legally) with Windows.

Add in a couple smart phones and MP3 players. The days of one computer to do everything are over, and Linux can easily compete as one part of a multi-computer household

Re:Linux? (5, Interesting)

SerpentMage (13390) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325743)

I work in the financial market....

I called Microsoft a Zombie corporation (and warned several months ago that MSFT earnings would suck even though most traders were optimistic) and have a neutral rating on them. BTW I am not making this stuff up. I happened to have started in the tech industry (still write quant code to this day), but moved to quant/algo trader/junior trader.

The real problem with Microsoft is that its operating system division is dragging down the entire corporation. Windows 7 is not great. I upgraded a Vista machine (HP tablet) and have to say, not bad, but I only upgraded because Vista was so bad. Would I upgrade my XP machines? NOT A CHANCE!!!

I also use Linux and have to say I am very impressed. Perfect? Nope, but very usable. I actually now prefer the Ubuntu fonts to read. Quite nice.

Apple, and Linux are going to devour Microsoft. The cycle has truly started. And once Chrome gets rolling Microsoft is going to have its hands full.

Look at the reality:

1) IIS cannot and has not beat Apache (even after a complete decade). The fact that a product can beat Microsoft is not widely talked about by Microsoft. Notice how Microsoft stopped talking about its IIS?

2) IE is getting stomped! You cannot deny it, but IE is getting beat by Firefox, Chrome (my preferred) and somewhat Safari.

3) Microsoft has completely lost the mobile business and is getting pulverized by the likes of Apple, Palm, and RIMM. Even Nokia has smelt the direction of the wind with the new N900. They know what is happening and are positioning themselves.

4) Java is STILL around. It used to be Microsoft could come out with a development language or environment and the world would bow to Microsoft. Java is still kicking and arguably is doing very well standing its own ground.

Microsoft has some major issues and Windows 7 will show that things will not work...

When the stock market sniffs the lack of Windows 7 follow through MSFT is going down! Right now the market is divided hence its stock price just keeps rolling around treading water. But when that balance sheet keeps grinding down MSFT is done! I am thinking you will probably be able to pick MSFT shares around the low teens next year.

Normally it would be a bit higher, but the selling will be relentless as people will want to get out of their positions (incl the MSFT employees)

How do you solve this?

1) Fire Ballmer and top management
2) Make a base Windows OS open source (no frills). Not for Linux trumping purposes, but if the Windows OS horse dies the entire corporation goes down...

Windows has become a yolk for the entire Microsoft corporation... In the past it was a blessing, now its a curse...

Re:Linux? (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325905)

Would I upgrade my XP machines? NOT A CHANCE!!!

But you will have to when MS stops supporting XP. True, it may be a few years before they start cranking the thumbscrews. But, it will happen. All they have to do is stop patching vulnerabilities found in XP.

And MS is still king of gaming, as somebody pointed out, for good or bad.

MS was founded by expert poker players. They haven't used all their strong cards yet.
   

Re:Linux? (1)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325845)

This is true.

Which is why I find it very strange that Microsoft feels it necessary to pepper this material with so many bold-faced lies. Printer and Camera support is great under Linux (really better than Windows in my experience), WoW runs great on Wine, updates are a breeze.

That said, you can't do your taxes, run Photoshop, Netflix, and sound support is flaky at best. Also Flash is even shittier than it is under Windows.

And sadly, Microsoft is being paid for these things that aren't even their doing.

And.... (2, Insightful)

Manip (656104) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325389)

So what?
Linux vendors would do exactly the same thing. Who is to say which OS is safer for example? It entirely depends on what metric you use to measure it. If for example you look at number of "hacker" style compromises then Linux is the worse but if we're looking at automatic spyware infection then obviously Windows is almost the only OS in that category.

I don't blame Microsoft for selling their products. That is what a software company SHOULD do. The only reason these are "stories" is because people [incorrectly] feel Linux is a community effort and that any attack on Linux is an attack on this community. But when you look at the people who donate MOST Linux code you'll quickly discover that Linux is about as community as Windows is...

So really this is just a slam at the Linux Vendors who have the cash to answer it...

Re:And.... (1)

cabazorro (601004) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325455)

Have you ever heard of the Linux based botnet? Neither do I.

Re:And.... (5, Funny)

wumpus188 (657540) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325465)

I think Slashdot pretty much qualifies, no?

Re:And.... (1)

miknix (1047580) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325645)

Have you ever heard of the Linux based botnet? Neither do I.

I did, they are called n00bs.

Re:And.... (1)

piojo (995934) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325739)

Actually, from what I've heard, linux boxes are used as the "lieutenants" of botnets. I think they host the IRC servers and do some of the higher level control...

Re:And.... (1)

agnosticnixie (1481609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325477)

Best Buy employees are not MS' employees, they really have no business doing the training of another corps' staff.

Get a life. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325555)

Best Buy employees are not MS' employees, they really have no business doing the training of another corps' staff.

Really? Pharmaceutical companies do it all the time. Aircraft manufacturers do it all the time. As a matter of fact, in many industries it is quote common and even expected for one company to train another staff.

God! The irrational MS hatred is annoying and downright idiotic.You MS haters really need to get a life.

Re:Get a life. (1)

agnosticnixie (1481609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325599)

Pharmaceutical companies doing it led to a number of scandals and lost licenses in other countries.

Re:And.... (1)

coolgeek (140561) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325597)

What? This is a "features and benefits" document, presented electronically. This is a common sales practice, to hand out information about how a product stacks up against its competition. It is also quite common for vendors to invite sales people from the companies that sell their products to shindigs and junkets, where there is free lunch at a minimum, and at times, sales people are supplied with the products so they can know about what they are selling. Charging $10 for the copy of Win 7 is a lot less egregious than all that.

I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy out here, but your argument really holds no water.

This is a common pracitice. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325655)

This is common practice for manufacturers. My wife, when at Intel, often put together materials that were to be used by sales people to push Intel processors.

At here current company she does the same to push their products over their competitors.

If the manufacturer doesn't educate the sales force on their product, then who will? And what is wrong with it? A consumer is the one who needs to make a decision and when it comes to ease of use and cost. Windows/Intel is still the perceived winner among the non-techie. (To be clear - Apple is too expensive for what you get and Linux is beyond most novices). (Oh, and don't try pushing that Apple "it just works" blather).

Most people don't like hacking around in Linux to get their printers to work, and certainly don't like to make purchase decisions based upon compatibility lists of a given distro.

Re:This is a common pracitice. (1)

agnosticnixie (1481609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325715)

Oh, and don't try pushing that Apple "it just works" blather

What about "your half price inspiron will also last a third of the time". This has basically been what happened, macs are not made to compete with the discount bin Dell crap, but with thinkpads and xpses. And yes it hurts Apple in terms of their "pricey" perception, but at least they don't jack up the price at retail.

Re:This is a common pracitice. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325789)

And I still get more bang for my buck with a think pad or and xps. And it is not perception, Apple is over priced.

Apple is like Sony, beautiful and desirable products that do not work any better than the less expensive competition. And most times they don't work as well.

Re:And.... (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325535)

So Linux vendor SHOULD be doing the same thing if their aim is to sell to the general public. This article should not be taken at a criticism against Microsoft but as an example of what Microsoft does well : selling its products.

Re:And.... (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325899)

Linux vendor
I agree with your assessment I think there is only 1 Linux vendor out there.

Sales even when done ethically tends to focus on the strengths of your product vs. the competition.

Re:And.... (4, Interesting)

Mr. Freeman (933986) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325541)

"That is what a software company SHOULD do."

No, a company should not slander their competitors to do more business. Propaganda results in an overall decline of the happiness of almost all consumers.

Consumers that are too ignorant to know any better will believe the ridiculous claims of "windows is safer than Linux" and "Linux is hard to update". (apt-get upgrade <-- 10 times simpler than windows bullshit update system). These consumers buy the product, have a bad experience with it (sales guy: Yeah, win vista will run fine on this laptop with POS specs!) then are forced to take the advice of these companies as complete lies and do their own research.

Consumers that know enough about this nonsense in the first place walk into the store with the (unfortunately correct) idea that everyone is lying to them and thus all advice needs to be disregarded.

Now, this means that if a consumer wants to buy some product and walks into the store and sees another similar product with a similar price they must then leave the store, research it, and then decide which to buy. It would help both the consumers and the store if the sales people could HONESTLY and ACCURATELY answer "what's the difference between these two products". Instead of "Well, this one is more expensive, so I get a larger commission, so you have to buy this one."

Re:And.... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325649)

No, a company should not slander their competitors to do more business. Propaganda results in an overall decline of the happiness of almost all consumers.

Umm, you just described every pro-Linux website I've ever seen. Slandering Microsoft is a major tool in the Linux advocate's handbag. Your ignorance and hypocrisy make me physically ill.

Re:And.... (0, Flamebait)

agnosticnixie (1481609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325681)

It's not slander if it's the truth.

Re:And.... Fair enough. (1)

miknix (1047580) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325585)

I also talk about the facts "M$ Windows VS GNU/Linux" with my friends. The big difference here is that they are MY FRIENDS so I DO NOT LIE to them.

Trust me, a *easy* way for a successful GNU/Linux propaganda is to talk (and possibly demonstrate) how GNU/Linux rocks when you are virus-cleaning your neighbor's computer at the same time. I don't know about you but I get called for this in a regular basis.

Re:And.... Fair enough. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325835)

Ironic that you use the word "facts" then later refer to Microsoft as "M$". Yeah, fair and balanced like Fox News, right?

You may claim to help your "friends" (I doubt they refer to you in the same fashon), but in reality you are just trying try to herd some sheep for the sake of feeling good about yourself. I take a different approach. I fix the problem then educate the user on how to avoid getting a virus in the first place, even without using Anti-Virus software. Soon they don't need me and they sure as hell don't need the headaches and disappointments of Linux.

Re:And.... (1)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325631)

Linux vendors would do exactly the same thing.

Says who? Which Linux vendor would be sending out anti-competitive training materials for employees of another company? And why would any company let a vendor waste thousands of collective man hours with propaganda training and bribe employees to complete it? This is selling their products the same way health insurers are selling their product at town hall meetings.

I didn't really need another reason not to shop at Best Buy, but they keep them coming.

Re:And.... (1)

agnosticnixie (1481609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325671)

Well, everex for one is known for their extra dirty tricks... oh, right

Re:And.... (1)

fmachado (89905) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325765)

So what?
Linux vendors would do exactly the same thing. Who is to say which OS is safer for example? It entirely depends on what metric you use to measure it.

No, Linux vendors would claim theirs OS is safer but they would not bribe (or "give outrageous discounts just get close to almost zero price") another company on spreading it's point of view. MS is free to claim Windows is safer/better/the best thing since sliced bread. Like you said, it can be a point of view but they should at least try to present their case as why they think their software is safer/better/the best thing since sliced bread.

I don't blame Microsoft for selling their products. That is what a software company SHOULD do. The only reason these are "stories" is because people [incorrectly] feel Linux is a community effort and that any attack on Linux is an attack on this community. But when you look at the people who donate MOST Linux code you'll quickly discover that Linux is about as community as Windows is...

So really this is just a slam at the Linux Vendors who have the cash to answer it...

I think this is a lesson on "How to distort the reality". No one cares where the Linux code comes from as long as the code abides to the license and do not try to bend the license terms out of context. This is not what this is all about. People will blame MS not for trying to sell their software (they are encouraged to sell their software) but to have to bribe, lie or tell half-truths to be able to undermine their competition, leaving only their software to be bought/acquired. More precisely (being less polite) abusing it's monopolist position. Why they can't just compete like anyone else, promoting what their software is good for and not trying to get competition out of business with questionable tactics. Only MS gains from it: consumer/user gets screwed (no competition = higher prices and less innovation) and the competition obviously gets screwed.

USA should stop citing "it's all capitalism as it should be" cause it's not. Capitalism says monopolies are bad cause they distort the market. And no bad action can use the excuse of "business as usual", as the companies with better governance and ethics are always the ones that resist more time on market.

Re:And.... (5, Informative)

NotBornYesterday (1093817) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325773)

Linux vendors would do exactly the same thing

Except that they don't. Not like this.

Who is to say which OS is safer for example? It entirely depends on what metric you use to measure it

Like, say, which is more prone to being part of a trojan-infected zombie botnet scamming info for identity fraud and/or spreading spam?

I don't blame Microsoft for selling their products. That is what a software company SHOULD do.

If they can't sell their product without bullshitting (or at least keeping it to a tasteful minimum), isn't that a condemnation of their own product?

The only reason these are "stories" is because people [incorrectly] feel Linux is a community effort ...

Actually, they are stories because this is an attempt to bullshit people, and people hate being bullshitted. People on slashdot especially hate seeing people who might not know any better being bullshitted by a cynical, self-serving marketing group. I don't mean to absolve other tech companies (most, if not all, do the same or similar), but Microsoft has long occupied a special place in tech history as one of the most blatant bullshit-marketing organizations ever. I personally have been involved in tech distribution for about 15 years, and no other vendor comes close to their level of arrogance or deceit. I've been to an RSA conference where Microsoft astroturfed a whole session that was promoted as a balanced and impartial hack-off, but instead was a scripted Windows lovefest. I've seen Microsoft flat-out lie to peoples' faces. I've seen them ship free product to people who didn't order it to inflate their "install base" of a particular item.

These are stories because in an industry saturated with kool-aid and known for marketing gross exaggerations and lies, Microsoft stands out as the worst.

Re:And.... (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325827)

So what?
Linux vendors would do exactly the same thing. Who is to say which OS is safer for example? It entirely depends on what metric you use to measure it. If for example you look at number of "hacker" style compromises then Linux is the worse but if we're looking at automatic spyware infection then obviously Windows is almost the only OS in that category.

Sure - you can cherry pick and fence your metrics to make any point seem reasonable. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't be interested in the rigging it took to make an argument stand up.

I don't blame Microsoft for selling their products. That is what a software company SHOULD do. The only reason these are "stories" is because people [incorrectly] feel Linux is a community effort and that any attack on Linux is an attack on this community. But when you look at the people who donate MOST Linux code you'll quickly discover that Linux is about as community as Windows is...

So really this is just a slam at the Linux Vendors who have the cash to answer it...

By all means - sell the product. Use marketing. But consumers should be aware of what liberties that marketing is taking to make the sale. That's why these stories are interesting. When a big advertising campaign is underway against your interests, it is wise to be aware of it and prepare to deal with the memes it is pushing.

Linux is, in fact, a community effort. When you look at the reports [internetnews.com] on who contributes, you'll note that there is no single gatekeeper. There is a large group of individuals who are not associated with any corporate interest. And there are some major corporate interests. And all of them contribute to the community that develops Linux code. I'd be interested in seeing information that shows Windows development works the same way.

An attack on Linux is an attack on the community. Our industry lives and dies on market share - or at least perceived market share. When a technology is perceived as having critical mass, it will get more support from the various developers and hardware manufacturers. Mircrosoft has long understood this and much of their marketing is about attacking opposing platforms and boosting the image of theirs. Any success in this means that the Linux community will run in to more difficulties getting support. And that affects everyone using Linux - whether you have a personal or monetary interest.

ELF ? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325419)

So what's the 'Executable and Linkable Format' got to do with anything ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf_format [wikipedia.org]

Ask Jack Schofield! (4, Funny)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325421)

I'm thinking of buying a netbook as a second machine for net access and mobile broadband. Should I get one with XP or can I run Linux? [today.com]
M Shuttleworth

Linux has an apparently friendly front end, but is very demanding if you go any deeper. Linux is like the Mooncup: a nice idea, but messy and not for the squeamish. In fact, Linux can be likened to a Mooncup-using redhaired hippie girlfriend who lives in a house in the country she built herself from twigs and has very strong ideas on how everything should be and has all her original body hair. The sex is fantastic, but only if she thinks the astrological conditions are perfect. The house has a hand-dug latrine, so she's propped a toilet bowl on top and thinks that's "user friendliness."

No, no. You would far prefer Windows. That's like a nice normal bottle-blonde girlfriend who has a proper office job and dresses cleanly from Primark and has a sweet smile and lives in a proper bedsit and knows everyone and how to act normally and is accepted in society. She gets headaches a lot and fits of rage where she smashes everything and there's an odd smell of decaying human flesh coming from the drains and the toilet backs up every now and then filling the entire block with sewage and bits of bodies, but this is entirely normal and nothing to worry about.

My four-year-old PowerBook G4 is putting itself into sleep mode and refusing to wake up. It gives a very unfriendly beep and a black screen when it is turned on. Taking out and replacing the memory will eventually bring it to life.
S Jobs

This is a known fault in the Macintosh line, where the keyboards were dipped in vats of herpes virus before being shipped. Mac OS X is well known to induce symptoms similar to tertiary syphilis in long-term users -- ask anyone with Mac-using friends. The G4 has an old PowerPC chip, and is obsolete because Apple has long since moved to Intel chips. So at least you can run a proper operating system like Vista on the new ones.

I have a PC bought from Dell, a proper computer company, and am running Microsoft(tm) Windows(tm) Vista(tm) Service Pack 1(tm). It's the best operating system ever in the entire universe and I can do anything those annoying Mac users and Linux nerds can. And Windows 7(tm) will be even better! I don't have a problem, I just wanted to tell you this to piss off those annoying anti-Microsoft trolls who keep commenting on your Guardian column.
J Schofield

This is an excellent start to a perfect computing experience. Make sure you have only genuine Microsoft software on the system, and donâ(TM)t ever use Firefox in case your penis shrinks -- Internet Explorer 8 guarantees you will get many useful email offers for a greatly increased penis with incredible sperm production capability. Also, Google will invade your privacy and put pictures of you masturbating on Google StreetView, so only use Bing. Happy surfing!

Re:Ask Jack Schofield! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325529)

Roy Schestowitz sends his regards, asshole.

Re:Ask Jack Schofield! (2, Insightful)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325629)

redhaired hippie girlfriend who lives in a house in the country

Sign me up for Linux...

Reading selectively (4, Funny)

MaizeMan (1076255) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325801)

I'm sorry, all I got from your post something about linux and:

redhaired hippie girlfriend ...The sex is fantastic

Marketing Drones (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325427)

If Linux has brain-dead marketing drones it would have awesome "Year of the Linux Desktop" and "Linux vs. Windows" powerpoints / quizes / ads too.

I hate to say it ... (1)

NotBornYesterday (1093817) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325435)

... but this is SOP. Every tech company out there mixes batches of kool-aid to serve to their customers and retail partners. Of course, most aren't this pathetically bad at it.

Sales Sales Sales Sales (5, Insightful)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325443)

Sales and Marketing people have always been people incapable of coherent thought or doing honest work. They'll do whatever they can to get more money. The only thing worse than them are Executives.

But that's just how the world works, there's no use in lamenting this. It's certainly interesting to see this, but there's no need to act like this was some big surprise. Every company acts like this. A society composed of only honest people doing honest work probably wouldn't work - nobody has tried yet, though.

Linux on the Dekstop (2, Insightful)

GMThomas (1115405) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325471)

I don't hate Linux (in fact, I run it on all of my machines), but this is why Linux has not become popular on the desktop.

The first reply to the topic says this:

"Um WOW. THeir full of them selves. And if something dose not work with linux you can compile your own code and make it work."

It's this kind of mentality that keeps Linux from becoming more accessible. Imagine that you install Linux for your mom, and she can't get so and so program to work, so you tell her to just go into the source and edit a few things and recompile it. That's just not going to work.

Re:Linux on the Dekstop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325543)

Exactly. Regrettably, many of Microsoft's talking points here are quite salient for those users who need out-of-the-box functionality, without investing more of their own time. I love Linux and would rest easy if Windows—and the need for it—were scoured from the Earth, but this Microsoft training course is not all lies and FUD (although there's plenty of that too). There is a reason that Microsoft is winning the usability battle and I wish more OSS developers would react to it.

Here, let's pretend I'm a typical non-technical user reading this article.

No iPod support? Really? And the Zune doesn't work on the Mac either although there has been some progress from the Linux community. And I've never had any problems pulling pictures from cameras.

Will it recognize the device as an MP3 player as soon as I plug it in? Will it sync with my desktop media player? If so, how much reading and work is required? 'Cause my maximum is three clicks through the default options of a wizard.

I've yet to see a printer that doesn't have a driver. You might have to download it from the products website though (gasp!).

What's a driver? How do I find the website? Is there just one kind of driver, or does it vary with the kind of printer? How many things do I have to know to configure the driver? Three clicks, remember.

Yeah yeah. Software. Although WINE has been vastly improving lately (we even got around that stupid Secu-ROM).

What is WINE? I put the CD in the drive and I'm not seeing an "install" window.

There are free alternatives to all of the Windows Live "essentials".

What are they? I have to read product descriptions in the package manager to figure out what does what? I have to use different software from all of my Windows-using friends? I have to figure out which features are matched one-for-one and where there will be file-compatability issues?

WOW. Of all the games to mention, they mention World of Warcraft. I wrote a tutorial on how to get WoW running on Linux not to long ago. Its probably the easiest game to set up with in WINE.

This article is trying to get me drunk again.

Remember, "lusers" may frustrate you, but they are the people you are courting when you talk about the year of Linux on the desktop. They are nice people and deserve the ability to be lazy and ignorant about computers. As a developer, it is your responsibility to try to give them that luxury. [catb.org]

Inconcrete replies? (3, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325483)

The way to refute an inconcrete reply is with an answer that is equally inconcrete. For example, in one of the slides, they say "Windows is safer than Linux." The quickest way to refute it is to laugh. You don't even need to answer. If they try to hit on an emotional level, hit back on an emotional level. Once they come back with a more concrete assertion, you can begin refuting it on a more concrete level.

"Windows is safer because it has parental controls." Ooh, check out that argument, a clear attempt to change the subject. A typical geek will start by trying to think of any Linux software that can handle parental controls, and if there isn't one, start thinking of ways to write scripts and set permissions that will simulate it. Easier way to handle it is to smirk slightly, and say, "yeah, like that will keep hackers out." Roll your eyes. Don't let them get away with ridiculous arguments.

On the other hand, Microsoft is right in some of their points, Linux has fewer games available, Linux has less software available, Linux has fewer drivers available. Those are my biggest complaints with Linux too. In fact, they may be my only complaints.

That was a good example. (4, Insightful)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325729)

I liked this one:

Linux is safer than windows

The Real Facts:

  • There's no guarantee that when security vulnerabilities are discovered, an update will be created. Users are on their own
  • There is no ability to set parental restrictions

Are they talking about Linux or Windows? I thought it was quite clever that they could be referring to either, while implying that linux is the inferior one.

"Nothing is as complete as Windows 7" (1)

Doug52392 (1094585) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325501)

One of the slides reads "Nothing is as complete as Windows 7".

Really? Three words: Service. Pack. 1.

And I'm pretty sure Linux has more FREE downloads than Windows. I'm also pretty sure that the rare security vulnerability occasionally found in Linux will be patched the next day.

Re:"Nothing is as complete as Windows 7" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325603)

Linux doesn't patch? Odd. I seen an article today about a new kernel. These aren't patches? So they don't call it a service pack but it does the same thing. Just about any long standing software done by professional developers is patched. What's the shame?

BTW: Every service pack I've ever seen for any Windows machine has been free. But when it comes right down to it I'm willing to pay for productivity. Microsoft delivers on that level. I don't want to sit and tweak an OS every time I put in a new video card. Not to mention that my apps run on Windows. I have no use for a PC without the apps I use on it.

Re:"Nothing is as complete as Windows 7" (1)

dogfolife69 (1005455) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325859)

if you read the comment above properly "the rare security vulnerability occasionally found in Linux will be patched the next day" ......so yea it is patched.... and for free

Software Freedom Day at Best Buy (5, Interesting)

Statecraftsman (718862) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325511)

If anyone's interested in going to a local Best Buy on 9/19/09 with CDs and flyers and encouraging people to try gnu/linux on their laptops before they buy, visit http://trygnulinux.com/sfd09 [trygnulinux.com]

If Microsoft thinks it's a worthy battleground, perhaps we should as well.

Re:Software Freedom Day at Best Buy (4, Insightful)

cwgmpls (853876) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325623)

Nice idea. But your "Software Freedom Day" is two weeks away, and you don't even have a proper website? That is why Windows and Mac will always win over Linux, they both have some concept of marketing. Linux struggles with marketing. Not that marketing has anything to do with the quality of software. But marketing has everything to do with people knowing about it.

Re:Software Freedom Day at Best Buy (1)

Compholio (770966) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325675)

If anyone's interested in going to a local Best Buy on 9/19/09 with CDs and flyers and encouraging people to try gnu/linux on their laptops before they buy, visit http://trygnulinux.com/sfd09 [trygnulinux.com] [trygnulinux.com]

If Microsoft thinks it's a worthy battleground, perhaps we should as well.

While this sounds like a good idea at first glance, it sounds like it's also a good way to get the cops called on you... Are you coordinating this event so Best Buy knows you're coming and is ok with it?

Re:Software Freedom Day at Best Buy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325813)

Actually, this sounds like religious zealotry. What next? A Crusade complete with swords and long bowmen?

Waaa! Your OS is evil! Our OS is pure! We'll hound you like a Jehovah Witness beating on your front door at 6 am.

Why don't you just call your distro "The Watchtower" or have robed and bald monks on the street passing out copies while chanting the Lord's name of Linus Torvalds?

For me? I use the OS that best does the job and both have their place. I'd much rather see Windows on the desktop than in the server room and Linux in the server room than on the desktop. Choice isn't a four letter word.

WoW on a Netbook? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325533)

Did they seriously just recommend WoW on a netbook? Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't think that was the goal of most netbooks.

Re:WoW on a Netbook? (2, Informative)

Lonewolf666 (259450) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325713)

WOW has rather modest hardware requirements. That makes it one of the few current games that might run well on a netbook. This said, I would not buy a netbook with the intention of playing games.

what is this 'buy' (2, Interesting)

fermion (181285) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325553)

I didn't think you 'bought' MS Windows, so how can some have confidence and know exactly 'what they are buying' when they are buying nothing, but licensing a product that can be revoked, or modified, or additional constraints can be placed on the use of the product. MS Windows is licensed, and one of the greatest benefits of *nix, to use the vernacular, is that one has choices. One can take out features that are not needed and recompile the kernel. One can add device drivers.On can even move to another machine without fear of the MS police going after you.

I recently updated a machine that had not been used in about a year. This machine is on a site license, using the standard MS products. In the update i was greeted wth the MS Office anti-piracy update, and warned that if I did not update I would not know if I had a pirated copy, and that if I did there might be security implications. Of course we had spent a great deal of money acquiring the software, and the update reminded that no matter what, MS could pull the plug at any time, and they would not consider this properly licensed software valid until I added this spyware to my machine.

The cool thing is that Google is taking this licensing deal to the next level with the cloud. The cloud, at least in it's free form, is not all that useful for people who want a little more control over their computers, but for those who are raised MS, it is the next logical step. For all those that have focused on the simplified MS development model, and MS controlled software and hardware, I wonder what they will do in if google has all the software on the backend, and users just have chrome laptops.

It's Best Buy's choice (2, Interesting)

ouder (1080019) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325639)

I am sure Best Buy is getting paid well for this, but ultimately it does hurt their reputation. One reason people go to a store like Best Buy is for information. If they get a reputation for giving out bad information then a lot of the reason for going there disappears. Granted, the typical reader of Slashdot probably doesn't need a lot of advice, and we probably know how to get better prices elsewhere. However, we do talk to a lot of people who are thinking about buying computers. I am thinking at this point it is probably better to go to Wal-mart where people assume the clerks know nothing about the products than it is to go to BestBuy where management is encouraging employees to give out bad information. I know there will be a lot of flames about the clerks at Best Buy being stupid, and people who rely on them are even stupider. However, I do know some Best Buy employees, and some of them are pretty sharp.

Where's my debating hat..? Oh yeah, on my head. (0, Redundant)

Erinnys Tisiphone (1627695) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325665)

If I'm ever really, really bored, I'm going to go to Best Buy wearing Barbie pink, act like I'm a novice user who wants to buy a netbook, and then refute their points one by one. Now that I know what they are... ;) I doubt I'll ever be that bored, but its nice to know I have a plan C this winter.

its all lies i tell you... its all lies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325705)

the expertzone courses in question do the similar job of misreporting the abilities of a Mac vs. Win7... then MS turns around it all around when they have their course on Office for Mac... its all lies i tell you... its all lies.

I Agree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325767)

Obviously this will be linux biased on slashdot. Although I agree with best buy, linux has it uses but home computing isn't one of them, some people need an OS to work with as opposed to work on. They need to plug their junk in and have it work, and play games, and do their multimedia things, and not spend weeks learning how to configure things, and have it be compatible with their friends. Best Buy would probably make a killing off of support for linux though.

I love Linux but could I live without Windows? No. Could I live without Linux? Yes

This is why I don't shop at BestBuy (4, Interesting)

DaveM753 (844913) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325771)

It's great that BestBuy wants to make money and that one of the ways they can make money is to "partner" with companies, like Microsoft, that will pay them to lie. That's Capitalism for you.

It's also a prominent reason that I, and most of my friends, don't shop at BestBuy. We all know we'll be lied to from BestBuy. It'd be great to go up to a salesperson and feel confident that any questions will receive carefully considered, honest responses. But, what we get are push-products-sold-by-Company-X-because-they're-our-partner responses. So, unlike 1999 when I went to BestBuy once a week, now I go there maybe once every year. I just don't like their B.S.

Well, that and their policy to DEMAND I listen to their spiel about extended warranties, with no regard to whether or not I, the customer, want to hear that crap.

Some good points in TFA, some are wrong themselves (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325795)

It's fairly clear that the presentation gets a few things wrong, but so does the article itself. To give a few examples:

No iPod support? Really?

It depends on what you mean by "iPod". Ubuntu wiki [ubuntu.com] says: "Ubuntu works very well with iPods, except the iPod Touch, iPhone, and any other future generation Apple portable devices that do not show up as a generic storage device." It also has a separate link for setting up a new Nano [wordpress.com] , which involves performing a cryptic incantation in the shell (well, that's how any casual user will treat it anyway), so "support" is a bit of a stretch there as well.

So it's not correct to say that Ubuntu does not support iPods at all - as presentation seems to imply - but there are certainly problems in that department. The reviewer then goes into a rant on Zune support on OS X, which is rather irrelevant to the subject at hand, which is Win7 vs Linux.

I've yet to see a printer that doesn't have a driver.

Didn't see a lot of printers, then. It's fairly easy to find one without a driver, usually of a kind where a lot of processing is offloaded to software (i.e. printer driver).

Video chat with Pidgin? Or Skype?

Presentation is a little bit more specific (and vague at the same time) there: it declares "video chat on all major IM networks". These days this would probably mean MSN/Live, too, at least in North America. I also wonder if they count Yahoo IM as well.

DOJ? (3, Interesting)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325803)

Isn't this against the spirit of DOJ's settlement with MS? This shouldn't be allowed when on anti-trust probation.

Should have been titled... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29325805)

Microsoft acknowledges Linux as such a huge threat that they have to use Best Buy employees...the same people who convince you to buy a $50 cable you most certainly don't need to sell Windows 7.

Ubuntu et.al. is Still the Bargin (1)

LifesABeach (234436) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325839)

Given that Best Buy employees still have to pay a Sawbuck to M$ for the win7. Ubuntu [ubuntu.com] can be downloaded for free. Word Processing, Spread Sheets, and Presentation software can be downloaded for free from openOffice [openoffice.org] . for Bitmap, and Vectored Art there is GIMP, Inkscape, and Blender3D. For software development there is Eclipse. The current major development war going on is "Flash verses SVG"; it's not that Flash products can do more, it's that SVG can be done in Notepad++.

Ubuntu has more updates... (2, Insightful)

msclrhd (1211086) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325847)

... because it updates *everything* (the operating system and all installed applications that come from the distribution).

And the "cannot tell what updates are required and which are optional" comment in Linux is ridiculous. In the update manager on Ubuntu (checked on 9.04), it clearly shows updates with "Important security updates", "Recommended updates" and "Other updates" listed, with a description of the changes.

My problem (4, Interesting)

Mascot (120795) | more than 4 years ago | (#29325849)

I don't have much of an issue with the list itself. Obviously it's heavily biased, but I see nothing on there that can be called an outright lie.

My problem is the purpose of BestBuy sending staff to a presentation like that. It's specifically intended to give staff arguments to persuade customers to buy Windows. When the real goal of the staff should be to identify each customer's needs and guide them based on that.

It's one thing to make mention of a more expensive product to see if there's a chance of an upsale, it's quite another to be as one-sided as this presentation is. Whether the staff will recite that presentation to any and all customers, or simply use it as input for any customer that asks for examples of why to pick one over the other, remains to be seen. But I have a feeling....

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