Exoskeletons For Rent In Japan 226
destinyland writes "Cyberdyne has started renting their exoskeleton body suits in Japan. The mind-controlled wearable machine increases strength and endurance, and rents for $2,300 a month. (Sensors on the skin detect traces of nerve signals from the brain, synchronizing the power suit's movements with the user's own limbs.) New video shows the suits in use on the streets of Tokyo, and the concept may be catching on. DARPA now has a program called Exoskeletons for Human Performance Augmentation 'to develop devices and machines that will increase the speed, strength and endurance of soldiers in combat environments.'"
Seriously? (Score:5, Funny)
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Don't worry - they've also developed an awesome bipedal law enforcement robot that has wicked machine guns for arms. If anything goes wrong, we're totally covered.
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Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Funny)
Much better than the competitor, Holly, with the slogan "the closest thing to infullable you can get."
The only thing they enhanced was the nerdiness (Score:4, Funny)
See title. I did not see anything in the video which could not be done by relying solely on your ordinary inner skeleton. Except of looking silly, which judging from western media's coverage of Japanese culture must be Japan's most popular pastime.
But I will give some props to the exoskeletons -- they did not keep that girl from swaying her ass so nicely. Maybe they even enhanced it.
Re:The only thing they enhanced was the nerdiness (Score:4, Insightful)
So says the person whose ordinary inner skeleton (and the muscles surrounding it) obviously work without any problem. The disabled, those in rehabilitation, the elderly and infirm, I guess these people don't exist in your world *roll*
Re:The only thing they enhanced was the nerdiness (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, it would be great if these things help the disabled, but none of the people in the test were disabled. And the article did not say that these would help the disabled. In fact it said that the exo-skeleton "is not ready for grandma yet."
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My suspicion is that with common use of these exosceletons the percentages of groups that 'need' them will increase. The trend, of course, could be reversed if people took more care of the standard implementation of body functions. However, that would not create another growing revenue stream in the health care sector.
CC.
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I believe foobsr is referring to the number of people that feel entitled to one because they don't bother investing minimum maintenance to keep themselves from becoming a fat ass. If your "disability" is something like that, you don't "need" one and are not entitled to government assistance to get one.
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Not to put too much emphasis on this failing, but I can easily carry 2 50 pound bags of rice and do squats and I'm not even considered strong. My buddy could quite easily carry 4 and do squats and walk around. Having one person who can and one who can't doesn't really prove the suit is doing the "heavy lifting" portion of that task.
I'm sure it's significantly augmenting the lifting, but it doesn't really prove anything about able-bodied versus disabled. Someone who can walk but can only walk short distan
Worth it? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm in!
Re:Worth it? (Score:5, Funny)
"If men could fuck women in a cardboard box, they wouldn't buy a house." -- Dave Chappelle
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or live in a cardboard box and be a cyborg...?
It is Japan, the cardboard box houses are actually much more advanced than we're used to. [0yenhouse.com] That solar panel would be useful for charging your cyber parts.
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Seriously, I could see me pay a lot of money to be able to walk in the latter years of my life.
Re:Worth it? (Score:5, Funny)
I've got one argument against it: People on the street going "Ha-haa! Cripple!"
On the other hand, you can then rip their limbs off.
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"I suggest a new strategy - Let the guy with the exoskeleton win."
-C3PO
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Rip 'em a new one (you'll have the strenght with the exoskeleton) and ask "well, who's laughing now?".
And, honestly, how many people do you know that are actually enduring runners? Most people who suffer from civilisation are already out of breath when they have to get up from the couch to change channels because the remote is out of batteries.
Hrmm (Score:4, Funny)
The military version might be able to lift 200lb weights, speed box, run, jump and other amazing things.
Nothing a cup of water wont put a stop to.
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Yeah, just like tanks stop dead when they get wet.
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You got a good point there, man.
What happens when one of the Special Ops boys falls out of the Zodiac?
"Hey Sarge, why does everyone in the platoon call Pvt.Sanders "Boat Anchor"?"
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Interesting Cultural Differences (Score:5, Insightful)
From TFA, the exoskeleton from the Japanese is being made to help the disabled and the immobile. The US exoskeleton? It's for the soldier of tomorrow.
Interesting priorities, that tell a lot about each culture.
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The uses are not mutually exclusive.
US soldiers have a nasty habit of getting in the way of US bullets ... friendly fire, I believe they call it.
If they are wearing exoskeletons, then maybe they won't end up disabled / immobile at the hands of their own generals ?
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Hey that wasn't his fault, he was just spychecking and nobody told him FF was on.
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...disabled / immobile ...?
Hey, I think Japan is developing an exo-suit for that!
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Only if the things come with armor that can stop the bullets properly. So far exoskeletons seem to be mostly meant to augment strength and mobility, not armor so a bullet would do the same damage. There are a few places that could be hit and cripple in a way that the exoskeleton could compensate for but there are many more places that will leave you dead.
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Even if they haven't been shipped with armour attached, this sort of technology is perfect for military armour, as the folks in the US are undoubtedly aware. The primary limiting factor in armour is weight. A soldier can only carry so much, can't afford to be slowed down, and already has many kilos of equipment, none of which are going away. To provide decent support against most military weapons requires fairly heavy armour - a kevlar vest isn't going to cut it here. Plus, you've got to balance weight
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Heck, as a bonus, I'm sure they can be programmed to walk the dead soldier inside it back to base. Well, until the enemy starts lobbing EMP Grenades...
Not really (Score:5, Insightful)
Culture has NOTHING to do with this.
Re:Not really (Score:5, Interesting)
You, sir, win a million points for insight. Minus one for saying it has nothing to do with culture though.
Publicly, it is very important to Japan that their innovations and applications are seen as being civil rather than military, for political and cultural reasons going back decades.
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Those decades would most likely be the from the end of WWII.
Japan was forbidden to raise a military until some time around 2000 or so. They even caught a bunch of flack for their police being trained in paramilitary tactics in the late 80's and 90's. This set up is also one of the biggest reasons the US is heavily invested in Japan, while they were defenseless (could have limited defense forces but nothing like what would be needed to secure against China of any of it's neighbors), the US and some European
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As to the
Japan is very big into helping the elderly (Score:2)
their robots are aimed at aiding the elderly and this exoskeleton would do the same.
If Japan didn't have someone looking over their shoulder perhaps their development of these products would be different? It has got to be kind of convenient to have the US providing support militarily, not that there are no drawbacks because there are some.
then again, after all their monster/giant robot flicks perhaps there is some cultural inhibition to making them come to life.
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So the Americans are using exoskeletons to make more potential customers for Japanese exoskeletons?
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Good. However lightweight "bullet-proof" armor won't really stop the average machine gun bullet.
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Could have something to do with Japan being barred from most military development after World War II.
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Muscle atrophy? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Homer: "And here I am using my own lungs like a sucker."
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You use more muscles for these than you do for passively sitting in a car or buss.
Re:Muscle atrophy? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Make something that can just take the strain off the lower back and keep people active and functional. Bigger win. 'Orthopedic failure' of one sort or another is depressingly common as we age. Sure, you can replace bits and pieces, but there are lots of downsides to that approach. Hell, just ha
Re:Muscle atrophy? (Score:4, Insightful)
That depends entirely on who will be using them. If those persons aren't able to move/exercise on their own then it's good, I'd take one of these over a wheelchair any day. If it's used for superhuman strength then I imagine it'll still take normal strength on the inside. But yeah, if you use it only for convienience and all the time then maybe. But that's really no different from a couch potato that barely gets his ass out to the car and back. In fact, I'm fairly sure that this motion will be more exercise than sitting in a car no matter what.
Re:Muscle atrophy? (Score:5, Informative)
Not everyone is lazy. I have intervertebral disc problem, and sometimes, it could be pretty nasty, I can't even stand up straight. If I stand or walk over an hour or two, I would have difficulty standing straight, and the lower back all the way to my calf are painful.
And no, I'm not a couch potato, I exercise twice to three times a week, mainly jogging (go slowly and gradually speeding up, up to 8km in 50 minutes) and swimming (2 to 3km in 1.5 hour) and stretching. And I'm not overweight either (had never been), I weigh 75kg, at 1.78cm tall. So that's pretty ok. If I don't exercise, my problems get worse.
So this exoskeleton could be a nice thing for me. I just wish it's not that expensive, and not so "borgy" (not that I mind that much). I would love to have one to help me sometimes, which would make life less miserable when the problem arise.
Re:Muscle atrophy? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm not overweight either (had never been), I weigh 75kg, at 1.78cm tall. So that's pretty ok.
I hate to break it to you, but 75kg is extremely overweight for someone 1.78 cm tall.
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Mods, hello? Are we a tad bit challenged by the metric system today?
Nah, it's just that all our mods work at Verizon's billing department, and factors of 100 give them a bit of trouble.
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He's a white dwarf you insensitive clod!
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Heh, I can imagine one of the lard-asses on the Wal-Mart electric carts using this kind of thing instead to move his 600-lb bulk.
I doubt the title (Score:3, Interesting)
The title of the original article says that these exoskeletons may soon become like bicycles. I doubt that and I'm sure that most governments will outlaw them. Whoever wears them could pose a serious threat to the people around him/her and why would anyone wear one for show if not for work (like construction) or fighting (which is illegal) ?
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Its not exactly a secret that Japan is developing them because the majority of their population is getting to an age where they will not be able to take care of themselves.
The needs of the elderly is driving robotic and exoskeleton development in Japan.
So why would someone wear one?
Because they can't walk without one.
Cyberdyne? (Score:5, Insightful)
geeks have no imagination.... (Score:2)
... they get all excited by films and books and rely on artists to come up with cool cultural memes to follow and become fans of? (like the rest of society)
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Artists are in the business of cultural memes, that's why people rely on then to come up with them--it's their job. Also, it is possible to be a geek and an artist.
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Yeah, they should have called it Omni Consumer Products [omniconsum...ration.com] instead.
I hope their are occupant safty features. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I hope their are occupant safty features. (Score:4, Funny)
Being mind-controlled and all, lets just hope that a beautiful lady doesn't walk past and you subconsiously grab a body part you don't want to be squeezed by a powerful mechanical arm...
Natural Progression Leads Where? (Score:5, Funny)
Military use:
At first, it's only used to assist in very special cases. Eventually it's perfected and every infantryman has one! Well, that's great. But one day, some 'genius' general is going to say, "Hey, what if we had the suits continue working even AFTER the soldier has died? That'll scare the bejesus out of the enemy!" And he'll get a medal, and some room full of programmers will work on making the suit controllable remotely, with simple commands that allow to act somewhat autonomously. (Stuff like... "Is the soldier dead? Okay, rush the bad guys and scare them")
It works so well, that soon they don't even take the dead soldiers out of the suits until they start to smell pretty bad, which gives away their position. The suit would dig a grave, drop its soldier in it, and run back to base.
Eventually that autonomy will prove so effective, they start allowing portions of it to activate even if the soldier is still alive. ("Not moving fast enough? Here, I'll help." "Hey, orders said go down this street, not that one. Let me help!" "Why aren't you shooting the small people with things shaped like grenades? Let me take care of that for you.") The soldiers will follow orders MUCH more effectively. And even if the suits walk them into death, well, the suits are more durable, and the enemy is more scared of dead walking soldiers, so... yeah.
Corpse armies will soon become the norm, and instead of enlisted soldiers, we'll just start tossing criminals into the suits. Inevitably the criminals would disobey an order (probably given an impossible order right away) and lose 100% control, and just be slaves to the suit until they got shot in combat.
So now we have robot zombie armies fighting each other with reckless disregard, since nobody's really getting killed anyway.
Wow, I just had an awesome idea for a novel.
Re:Natural Progression Leads Where? (Score:5, Funny)
Whats the idea for the novel?
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Nah, it would be much easier to just automate the suits and use the soldiers to pilot them from 10,000 miles away like we do with most of the UAV's. In this situation, you would only need one soldier per suit instead of another soldier to control a couple of them.
You would also have the added benefit of the 200lbs of human flesh being replaced by weapons systems and ammunition to extend the range and battle readiness of the suits. Perhaps beefing up the armor quite a bit and placing a live human in a couple
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Nah, it would be much easier to just automate the suits and use the soldiers to pilot them from 10,000 miles away like we do with most of the UAV's
Will someone please mod this guy up?
Heinlein's powered armour idea was the product of a different way of looking at the role of humans in combat, when war (which Heinlein never faced except as a civilian engineer) still carried with it some idea of a moral test for the individual. That idea was waning even then, as mindless engineers had contributed so much mech
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Things that look like men, though... we've got lots of genes specially made for being scared of them.
If you follow that logic then make them look like man-sized spiders.
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Erh... why again do you need the flesh ballast inside the suit if it's working completely autonomously? Not using a human being would definitly be a plus. Less weight, less political problems (hey, none of our people die, good war!), no witnesses whose memory can't be completely erased...
It is so wrong! (Score:4, Insightful)
I watched the video of the three people walking the streets with leg exoskeletons.
Argh! It just abounds in wrongness! They are all in black, with white exoskeletons. There should be a red one, a blue one and a yellow one or some such! Don't these people watch Sentai shows?
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No, but they're big fans of Star Wars.
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Maybe they realized that even the most die hard geek isn't really a fan of the Power Rangers. At least once he crosses the threshold into an age where he might be earning the money to buy/rent one...
I think somebody is forgetting something. (Score:5, Funny)
With the decrease in actual exercise performed while wearing one of these suits, soon everyone will be too fucking FAT to fit into them.
And another thing...
"Developing story! Epileptic in HAL suit has seizure on subway...18 reported dead. More at 11!"
I thought that was happening with autos anyway? (Score:2)
Aren't they making autos bigger because people can't fit in smaller ones? Can you imagine an American family all fitting into a Model T Ford these days?
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Oh man, don't get me started.
I damn near fell through the floorboards of a 92' Ford Escort that a customer of mine brought in for an alignment back when I was a mechanic. The guy weighed well over 400lbs. He literally cracked the floorpan and it decided to give on my test drive. Driver seat punched right through to the asphalt, sparks ahoy.
The really funny part was he wanted me to make the damn thing drive straight. The entire suspension on the left side of the vehicle was TOAST. Thing was NEVER going strai
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Heh! I can't even picture someone that size in an Escort. I can't really fit into those at half his size. Though my problem is more leg room than weight.
Gundams (Score:2)
Doing what Japan does best! (Score:2)
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Something I couldn't quite place... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've posted a few times in this thread in an entirely joking manner, but something I couldn't quite put my finger on has been bothering me about this whole thing. It finally struck me.
I occasionally do a little demonstration to show how the body responds to certain stimuli. You can try it yourself. Stand in a doorway, place the outside of your wrists against the sides of the doorjamb (the door has to be open, idiot), and apply steady, yet heavy pressure outwards with both arms, as if you are trying to do a jumping-jack, but the doorjamb is preventing your arms from going all the way up. Push hard. Hold it, still applying outward pressure, for a count of 60 seconds, then step out of the doorway and just relax, with your arms hanging at your sides. Weird, huh?
Your arms will almost immediately begin raising back into the previous position, outwards, without any intentional effort, almost as if you are in a zero-G environment.
Astronauts experience the exact opposite of this. They do not require much effort to move around, so that when they are suddenly back on Earth, it is very difficult for them to move around. I am not talking about muscle atrophy. That takes much longer to happen. As the previous exercise demonstrates, it takes a mere 60 seconds to condition the body to changes in the environment, yet it takes just as long for it to re-adapt.
Now imagine a soldier in the field. Blastin' away, running hither and yon, jumpin' jack flash, for hours on end, his movements amplified by this crazy borg suit. Suddenly he takes a hit in the powerpack, or it just runs outta juice in the middle of a fire-fight. So what does he do? He takes the fucking thing off, otherwise he is a deadman (or simply laying there like one).
Here is the problem. He is so conditioned to the suit, now it is off, it takes a long time to readjust. He is STILL a sitting duck, blundering around like a 40oz drunk because his muscles/brain are still expecting the suit to be doing most of the work.
This is a bad scenario. He is the Terminator while the battery lasts, and Erkle-the-Wonder-Geek with no body armor when it goes dead.
I think I'd rather hump the 80lb pack around and be able to dump it (and float like a butterfly) when the shit really hit the fan.
Re:Something I couldn't quite place... (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure it would make it more difficult to differentiate the real mass of things you lift but its a small price compared to the problem you described.
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That might actually increase battery life too.
Better yet, how about this.
Give me a fucking robot that can carry all my shit and will follow me around? I can use it as a decoy, hide behind the fucker(and all it's armor), load my shot up buddy on it and even give it a pretty name, like Tinkerbell.
Battery goes dead, I just take the important stuff and we are back on the road.
And another thing...Is anyone else trying to imagine some grunt trying to SNEAK up on somebody in one of these suits?
What about magnetic
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I think the current idea of military used it to get more supplies into combat faster. If the soldier can use one of these to carry an extra 100lbs of equipment, plus armor, then his entire range of readiness just increased enormously.
The idea would be to send supplies into positions already under attack or to get the supplies close to the mission objective and then take what they need while stashing the exoskeleton for future retrieval. Going into combat is sometimes a compromise between necessary gear to a
Starship Troopers (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd recommend reading "Starship Troopers" by Robert Heinlein, which covers some interesting problems regarding exoskeletons used in combat. The solution of course is to not amplify the soldiers strength unless needed. The suit should simply move with the body in normal situations and only ampify in extreme situations, when the soldier exerts extreme force.
New spam subjects ? (Score:3, Funny)
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Cyberdyne? (Score:2)
Wasn't that a real name for a real apocalypse in the movie Terminator...?
Quick, destroy them, lest we start seeing more walking metal exoskeletons, with the evil red eyes!
Sigourney Weaver is a frequent customer (Score:2)
Re:HAL AND Cyberdyne!? (Score:5, Informative)
Colour me paranoid, but I think the exoskeleton success stories won't be seen in Popular Mechanics until they're already obsolete.
*Yes, I've worked on robotics exoskeletons, and have spoken with other people who develop them.
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Re:HAL AND Cyberdyne!? (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, outside of the espionage business, I'm not sure I can think of classified military tech that remained secret until obsolescence. Not saying it hasn't happened (we might never know after all), or that they don't do their best to keep stuff secret, but once the grunts get ahold of something, you can bet it'll become common knowledge very quickly.
The stuff that does get kept secret is the stuff that never enters widespread use, or only requires the knowledge of a few highly placed people to deploy. Spy planes and satellites, failed prototypes, software, bioweapons, strategic command and communication systems - those can be hidden. Anything destined for the front lines can't stay secret for long.
Of course, you could have meant the successful prototypes will remain hidden from the public, but you did say "until they're already obsolete", which suggests they've passed the prototype stage, entered production, and fallen behind the curve.
The joke is in the acronyms (Score:3, Insightful)
Cyberdyne = the fictional company that built Skynet in the Terminator movies
HAL = the computer in "2001: A Space Odyssey"
You're obviously not a science fiction geek ;-)
And I'm surprised that a real company calls itself Cyberdyne and uses HAL as an acronym for a real product. While I appreciate the humor, most companies want reputable sounding rather than funny names. That way, Japanese Cyberdyne is a big exception.
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But aren't these things really less for endurance and more for "Oh hey, I can lift 300 pounds". Like, even if you get tired out, there's no way you could safely lift 300 pounds without assistance so doesn't it ultimately get the job done in that respect?
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The Borg aren't scary because they use technology to alter their biological being. They are scary because that technology is not under the control of the individual but used to strip them of individuality.
That's the whole theme behind the Borg and I'm sorry if you didn't understand that. It's not that they are man-machines. It's that the machine controls the man. Not the other way 'round.
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Feel free to "re-wow" it... at least a bit (Score:2)
Sure... OK.
It didn't make the quadriplegic walk autonomously again - but it did allow his friend to hike up the mountain for three hours with him on his back.
Have you recently tried piggybacking a grown human for three hours? Up a mountain. In the snow.
Nearly doubling one's lifting strength, is kind of a wow-deal. [msnbc.com]
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That's more about letting a soldier carry around and fire a M2 Browning machine gun.
And besides, you're a fucktard. No one's putting military use before anything else, except maybe for the fact that there's more bucks available for military research.
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