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Sega Dreamcast Turns 10

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the keeps-on-ticking dept.

Classic Games (Games) 193

traycerb writes "It's been 10 years since 9/9/1999, when the Dreamcast launched on American shores. The hardware was ahead of its time; online capability, web browser, a visual memory unit, and a controller that anticipated the much-loved Xbox 360 controller. The games were amazing: Jet Set Radio (the first popular 3d cell-shaded game on a console), Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (still the apotheosis of 2-d fighting; just try finding a copy on ebay), Soul Calibur (still looks good compared to the recent Xbox/PS3 versions), NFL 2K (came out of nowhere, and was so good that it shook EA into spending tens of millions of dollars to seal up exclusivity for NFL rights), and many others. No doubt some of the reasons for the Dreamcast's demise lay with Sega, whose dubious hardware decisions (ahem, 32x) finally caught up to them, in the form of ambivalence from both developers and gamers, just as the console-making world was shifting to the multinationals with big pockets who were willing to spend it on pricey hardware design (or could absorb the cost of faulty hardware design). It was also one of the first consoles widely used for homebrew. In honor of the 10th anniversary, a new game is being released for the Dreamcast, called Rush Rush Rally Racing. The Dreamcast is dead! Long live the Dreamcast!"

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193 comments

ahh good times (5, Funny)

nomadic (141991) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367037)

There has never been a console that was that far ahead of its competition at the time. It's the lightsaber of consoles, an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.

Re:ahh good times (4, Interesting)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367093)

that, sadly, no-one really took seriously. It was a wonderful console with some wonderful games. No-one really took the Dreamcast seriously after the flagging failure of the Saturn, expecting the same thing this time around. All the big developers went to PS2/Xbox (With the PS2 winning that round) and utterly burying the Dreamcast.

Re:ahh good times (3, Interesting)

toolie (22684) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367109)

The developers went to the PS2 and XBox because the Dreamcast was stupidly easy to pirate games for. If the developers weren't making money, why support the system?

Re:ahh good times (3, Interesting)

JonJ (907502) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367183)

Yeah, because it's clearly impossible to pirate games for the xbox.

Re:ahh good times (5, Interesting)

toolie (22684) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367263)

There is a difference between 'possible' and 'stupidly easy'.

Re:ahh good times (5, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367951)

There is a difference between 'possible' and 'stupidly easy'.

It was only stupidly easy if you had a CD burner, a broadband connection, and knew your way around IRC and warez sites... in 1999. You may have had several buddies doing it, but the masses weren't. Piracy did not kill the Dreamcast.

What did kill the DC was Sega needed to make 10 million more units and had no money to do it. Limited growth potential, limited developer support.

Re:ahh good times (5, Insightful)

iamhassi (659463) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368447)

"What did kill the DC was Sega needed to make 10 million more units and had no money to do it."

Nope, what killed the Dreamcast was the Sony media spin, which went into full swing Spring 1999, touting the next gen Playstation 2 to have "Toy Story" graphics [cnn.com] . Everywhere I went I kept seeing reviews and commercials for PS2 and the amazing graphics, so everyone just waited for the PS2. By the time they got a PS2 and found out the graphics were not even close to the movie it was too late for DC. Plus it didn't help that the Playstation already had some excellent PS only series of titles, like Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and Castlevania.

It wasn't until 2009 when the PS3 finally did bring Toy Story graphics to consoles [gamezine.co.uk] .

Re:ahh good times (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368581)

Nope, what killed the Dreamcast was the Sony media spin, which went into full swing Spring 1999, touting the next gen Playstation 2 to have "Toy Story" graphics.

They stole that from Nintendo's playbook; they're notorious for doing that every console generation.

Re:ahh good times (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369345)

Nope, what killed the Dreamcast was the Sony media spin, which went into full swing Spring 1999, touting the next gen Playstation 2 to have "Toy Story" graphics.

They stole that from Nintendo's playbook; they're notorious for doing that every console generation.

Not the GameCube generation. Even after the PS2 hype was in full swing, Nintendo was noted for doing demos and throwing out numbers that were much more within the realm of reality. I distinctly remember reading in a magazine somewhere that Nintedo was saying the GC could handle something like 12 million polys a second while the PS2 was touting 66 million. It was the difference between "We were able to draw this x-thousand polygon racecar at y-thousand frames per second" and "we can draw a blank pixel on the screen 66 million times in a second."

Frankly I cannot recall Nintendo bragging about the graphic prowess of the GBA, DS, or the Wii. I think you're thinking of the Ultra 64. Maybe even the SuperNES. I dunno if I'd call that 'notorious', but I guess since it's easy to remember you may be right.

Re:ahh good times (3, Informative)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368769)

>>>what killed the Dreamcast was the Sony me

Disagree. Sega has no one to blame but themselves. First I bought a Genesis which was cool. Then a 32X which was only supported a year, and then the Saturn which was only supported two years, and then Sega announced Dreamcast. I (and millions of others) decided we were tired of getting screwed buying 32Xs or Saturns that were barely-supported. So we turned our backs on Sega and their new dreamcast.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice? Fat fucking chance!"

Re:ahh good times (3, Informative)

fruitbane (454488) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369213)

I think the only conclusion we can come to is that Sega had an array of factors aligned against them, among them their own erratic past in hardware, lingering financial troubles, and Sony's FUD. It's truly a shame that what sank them was their cleanest, most forward-looking console ever.

Re:ahh good times (3, Interesting)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367319)

I would have to say Xbox was way easier to pirate the games. Heck with the dreamcast you had to burn discs, with the Xbox you could copy them to the hard drive.

Besides the dreamcast was 2 years old when the PS2 cameout and 3 when Xbox came out.

Re:ahh good times (2, Insightful)

demonlapin (527802) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367557)

After you paid somebody to do a chip or softmod (or did it yourself), and bought a hard drive. Neither of which you needed to do with Dreamcast. Burn and go.

The only advantage to Xbox was that you could pirate a friend's game easily; Dreamcast really needed someone else to do it for you, and you d/l the ISO.

Re:ahh good times (1)

medv4380 (1604309) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367791)

Actually the problem of pirating was two fold. It was actually mind numbingly complex to copy a GD Rom, but once one person did it and posted an ISO it was easy. However compared to the XBox and PS2 - You have to be joking. I can copy an XBox disk without having to barrow the CD Drive from it to copy a disk and there have been several soft exploits like the mech assalt save file that would allow you to play those copied games. Though if you kept your XBox up to date those exploits would never work.

Re:ahh good times (5, Interesting)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368135)

I think people over-emphasize the piracy aspect. Yes DC games were relatively-easy to copy, but still not as easy the CD-ROM based playstation 1. To copy DC discs required some hacking to remove extra videos and make the 1-gigabyte game fit onto a stand 0.7 gig CD. The PS1 did not require that, making it easier to pirate, and yet the PS1 seemed to do moderately okay (120 million sold).

Dreamcast was killed by mistrust. After buying The Genesis, then the 32X, then the Saturn, and getting screwed on the last two deals, I made-up my mind that I would never again touch a Sega console. So I ignored the DC.

Sega, like Atari and Commodore before it, made stupid decisions that made them lose consumer confidence.

Re:ahh good times (2, Interesting)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367939)

For most people, burning a CD is much easier and less risky than opening up the XBox to mod it, and copy the content to the hard drive than it is to just burn a CD. If the CD doesn't work, you lose $1 (at the time of the dreamcast), if you bork up your XBox by opening it up to mod it, you are out the price of a console.

Re:ahh good times (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368189)

True, but the CD method is every freaking time, with the Xbox you just open it once. Heck, you could and probably still can buy premoded Xbox. All with a nice little switch that turns of the mod chip for online play.

Re:ahh good times (1)

tecnico.hitos (1490201) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367931)

The developers went to the PS2 and XBox because the Dreamcast was stupidly easy to pirate games for. If the developers weren't making money, why support the system?

I doubt that was the reason. PS2 is also very easy to pirate games for and it was the most popular console of that generation.

Re:ahh good times (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367963)

P.S.

Since most of the Dreamcast games have been ported to other consoles, is there any remaining reason to go buy one? What "must play" games still exist on the original console but are not available elsewhere?

Re:ahh good times (4, Informative)

Hatta (162192) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368571)

There's a good list at Racketboy [racketboy.com] . One that's not on the list is Propeller Arena, a great arcade style dogfight game which was canceled and leaked to the internet.

Re:ahh good times (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29368611)

I have owned a DC since 2000, and have found that I still enjoy playing Quake 3: Arena more than I enjoy playing most of my 360 games, including Halo3. I would never ever get rid of my DC simply because of Q3A.

Re:ahh good times (1)

Ultronator (900114) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368235)

Actually, from what I understand, there are 2 major reasons why the Dreamcast failed.

The first is that during the Playstation / Saturn era, Sega pissed off a lot of developers by making a lot of bad decisions, from the Saturn's complicated hardware, to an earlier than expected release date, and just about every other mistake they could have possibly made. This alone was probably enough to doom the Dreamcast from the start, however, it came through with plenty of great games in the first year or so.

However, their next problem was trying to compete with Sony's Playstation 2 for attention, which was a battle they simply did not have the money to win.

This of course, almost drove them completely bankrupt, and now we have the Sega of today, no longer with the funds to compete in the console race, somehow staying alive, releasing mediocre games. Say what you will, but what is the last Sega game that came out that really "WOWed" you?

It's all there in the Saturn and Dreamcast wikipedia pages.

Re:ahh good times (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369011)

Say what you will, but what is the last Sega game that came out that really "WOWed" you?

Valkyria Chronicles.

Which from what I understand, had disappointing sales. Sega still has the ability to make awesome games; they just don't sell as well as their mediocre ones. Kind of the problem that most game developers face.

Re:ahh good times (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368307)

I point this out all the time to people who wonder why Sony goes to such great lengths to try and protect the PS3 and PSP from piracy. It doesn't matter if Sony officially supports home-brew or not, they need developers and developers want security for their applications.

Re:ahh good times (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368463)

I point this out all the time to people who wonder why Sony goes to such great lengths to try and protect the PS3 and PSP from piracy. It doesn't matter if Sony officially supports home-brew or not, they need developers and developers want security for their applications.

Sony's trying to protect their revenue stream. A PSP running emulators means, potentially, no more UMD sales.

Piracy has never killed a system, not even the Dreamcast. They can start panicking when PC gaming dies.

Re:ahh good times (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367911)

>>>no-one really took seriously. It was a wonderful console with some wonderful games.

Yes and I love playing those DC ports on my PS2 (Space Channel 5) or my Gamecube (Skies of Arcadia), but I don't think the console was really powerful enough to beat the other 3 from Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft. The Dreamcast is the weakest of the four and since it uses a CD has even less room for videos/graphics than the Gamecube had (1 megabyte versus 1.5 megabyte) both of which were woefully-inadequate compared to the 8 megabytes available to PS2 or Xbox.

I was a little surprised Sega pulled the DC when they did, since DC was not number one but still ahead of the Cube and Box (10 million versus 5 million units). Maybe they just ran out of money, and it was either end the console or else go bankrupt.
.

>>>No-one really took the Dreamcast seriously after the flagging failure of the Saturn, expecting the same thing this time around.

There's more to it than that. If you were a Sega fan you bought: -The Genesis/Megadrive. (1) Then a Sega 32X addon to make it a "next gen" console. (2) But then that was killed and the 32-bit Saturn was released. (3) And then THAT was killed and the 32-bit Dreamcast released

After getting screwed in steps 1 and 2, and in less than five years total time, the consumers were not about to get screwed again in step number 3. They walked-away from Sega.

Re:ahh good times (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368079)

[edit]

"1 versus 1.5 [gigabyte] both of which were woefully-inadequate compared to the 8 [gigabytes] available to PS2 or Xbox."

Re:ahh good times (2, Interesting)

Steauengeglase (512315) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367281)

A proper keyboard and mouse are enough to make me agree. Dammit, 10 years and no one else has bothered to get that right since. I want to play my UT3 Black, BioShock and Rage like a civilized human being, not like I'm an 8 year old with Nintendo thumb.

Re:ahh good times (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368429)

You can actually play UT3 with a keyboard and mouse on the PS3, but that's the exception, not the rule.

My first console I bought myself (4, Interesting)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367061)

I must admit I have very fond memories of the Dreamcast. It debuted during the first semester of my Freshman year in college. All my previous consoles had technically been joint gifts to me and my brother so I left them all at home for him to play, and the Dreamcast was the first console I bought with my own money - which I bought on launch day so that I'd have something to play at school. Soul Caliber was a blast, as was Resident Evil Code Veronica and Sonic, as was Skies of Arcadia, but I really, REALLY liked Grandia II on that system.

Despite it's early death, I think that the Dreamcast still held it's own against all the consoles of that generation (Gamecube, PS2, Xbox - I owned them all eventually).

Re:My first console I bought myself (2, Informative)

_PimpDaddy7_ (415866) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368083)

Dreamcast was an excellent system and ahead of its time, which could be another reason it failed. Money was a big issue. Tough to go against Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo.

Gamasutra has an interesting article as well on the history:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4128/the_rise_and_fall_of_the_dreamcast.php [gamasutra.com]

Luckily, a few of those GREAT games were ported over to the GameCube, which I still have, like Ikaruga(yes I know it eventually got ported to the XBOX360), Skies of Arkadia, Shenmue, etc.

Am I the only one.. (1)

Totenglocke (1291680) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367095)

who when reading " In honor of the 10th anniversary, a new game is being released for the Dreamcast, called Rush Rush Rally Racing. " Was expecting the game to be called "Rush Rushed Out the Door"?

Re:Am I the only one.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29368567)

who when reading " In honor of the 10th anniversary, a new game is being released for the Dreamcast, called Rush Rush Rally Racing. " Was expecting the game to be called "Rush Rushed Out the Door"?

Yes, you were the only one to come up with that.
Congratulations!

Controller sucked (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29367119)

Should have kept the saturn type 2 controller, other then that best system ever.

PS3 is basically DC now since you can hack it so much without modding it.

Re:Controller sucked (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367723)

Only thing I didn't like about it was how the cord came out the player's side and had to be run under it to go out where it was supposed to.

WTF?

To bad really (1)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367135)

A shame the Dreamcast died. I dunno if I should be angry at Sega, or it's run of bad luck. Sega has a history for abandoning consoles very quickly. But the Dreamcast had stiff competition, and needed to sell a lot of units to turn a profit. When sales were falling short of Sega's expectations they pulled the plug on it. I can't help but feel that if Sega has hung in there it might of been a huge success but I can't really laminate about how terrible sega is. RIP Dreamcast you died to young.

Re:To bad really (5, Funny)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367279)

but I can't really laminate about how terrible sega is

Are you afraid you might gloss over the story?

Re:To bad really (1)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367795)

Nah I just don't know what I would of done differently to make the Dreamcast be profitable. It was awesome but awesome things are only awesome if people are buying them. They just couldn't compete with Sony.

Re:To bad really (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29368027)

woooooooosh

Re:To bad really (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29368089)

-------> joke

  O
    | <---- you
  / \

Re:To bad really (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29368087)

And yet Sega has always had a veneer of professionalism...

Re:To bad really (3, Funny)

ZarathustraDK (1291688) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368485)

That's sugar-coating it. not the material you need for a nice decisive finish.

Re:To bad really (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368633)

What the hell word is that even supposed to be? I guess "ruminate" would be the closest word that sounds remotely similar to "laminate" and also makes sense in context.

Re:To bad really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29368759)

Lament?

Re:To bad really (1)

drewness (85694) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368873)

What the hell word is that even supposed to be? I guess "ruminate" would be the closest word that sounds remotely similar to "laminate" and also makes sense in context.

I'm guessing "lament" was the target word.

Re:To bad really (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369357)

What the hell word is that even supposed to be? I guess "ruminate" would be the closest word that sounds remotely similar to "laminate" and also makes sense in context.

I suspect that person wanted the word lament. Though we could chew on the possibility of ruminate [m-w.com] as well.

One might further speculate the user was using spell check and trusting it to make sense of the grammar; notice the subject is "to bad really", it should have likely been "too bad really". This would explain how (a misspelling of ) "lament" became "laminate".

Re:To bad really (0, Troll)

metamatic (202216) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368741)

I saw the Microsoft logo on the Dreamcast and steered clear. Was glad it failed for the same reason.

Re:To bad really (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369069)

It had the Microsoft Logo because it was capable of running Windows CE. Most games didn't use it at all. Do you avoid PCs because they're capable of running Windows?

Re:To bad really (1)

metamatic (202216) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369179)

I avoid PCs that come bundled with Windows operating systems, yes.

A great console (4, Interesting)

Wintergr33n (1369379) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367137)

This is true, it was a fantastic console and such a shame it didn't last the race. I remember playing Phantasy Star Online over the 56k modem before the term MMO even existed. And I still would rather play that than WoW. With Soul Calibur, Jet Set Radio, Power Stone, Crazy Taxi and of course Shenmue it seems that the Dreamcast proved that quality games is not enough to survive in this particular market. RIP!

Re:A great console (4, Informative)

RemoWilliams84 (1348761) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367265)

You are forgetting one of the most revolutionary games that changed the face of console gaming(okay maybe not), SEAMAN.

It was the game where you raised the fish and interacted with them using the included microphone. I remember buying that game and beating the shit out of those fish.

  My little brother also got a note sent home to our parents from his second grade teacher about discouraging him from talking about his semen. Hilarity ensued.

Re:A great console (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368855)

Ye name a lot of great games, but virtually all of them have been ported to the PS2 or Gamecube (I won both). Are there any "must play" games that still remain exclusive to the Dreamcast which would make me, or other players, want to go buy a DC off ebay? I can not think of any.

Re:A great console (5, Interesting)

nomadic (141991) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367283)

Phantasy Star Online was amazing; it was basically networked Gauntlet with great graphics and music. Very atmospheric. Unfortunately the old timey game cheating devices worked on it, so it was unplayable online because there was unlimited weapons, money, etc. floating around.

My PSO hacking days (5, Interesting)

Myria (562655) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368461)

I was actually one of the most well-known cheaters in PSO. A few friends and I disassembled the game and figured out how various parts worked, making GameShark cheat codes in the process. I had a serial cable between my PC and Dreamcast that let me dump memory and target-debug PSO.

My favorite trick that I would do with the debugger is overwrite my own character with the data from another character in the lobby, then rejoin the lobby. I would appear as an exact clone of them. I even would do things like start listing the items they had in their inventory, as that was broadcast to every other client. Until Sega's servers started detecting it, I would also run around the lobby as Sonic.

When the GameCube version came out, we applied our knowledge from the Dreamcast version to break the new encryption it used on the protocol. We didn't have a way to remote-debug the GameCube, so instead we wrote a transparent proxy server that let us mess with the packet stream instead.

PSO for Xbox is what led to GameCube homebrew, and eventually sped up GameCube piracy. In the Dreamcast days, because of our cheating and bugs, Sega added a packet in "version 2" known as RcvProgramPatch that would tell the client to execute arbitrary SH4 assembly code. The GameCube version had this feature too. Because the GameCube packet encryption was then unknown (to homebrew; we knew it) and the disks were unreadable, there was no obvious way to break it without disassembling the game. The same encryption algorithm was used in the Xbox version of the game - big mistake. Xbox disks were readily dumped, and by disassembling the Xbox version's encryption they got the GameCube version's encryption. From there they simply sent PowerPC assembly code to the GameCube via RcvProgramPatch and it was all over.

We actually cracked the encryption before the Xbox version came out using an elaborate trick involving misuse of stream ciphers by Sega. They violated two rules of stream ciphers and cryptography in general: always have both the server and client provide pieces that hash to the session key, and never let the server session key equal the client session key. This led us to get about 1 MB of the encryption stream for a particular key that we could repeatedly use. From there, we tried RcvProgramPatch, but it was broken. (We later figured out that it didn't flush the instruction cache before executing code. We later worked around that, as did the homebrewers.) Instead, we took advantage of another feature of RcvProgramPatch: the ability to request a CRC32 of an arbitrary chunk of memory. We asked for the CRC32 of every 2-byte word of memory, and from that we were able to get a copy of the game's RAM, and thus the assembly code containing the encryption. It was just disassembly from there to get to the algorithm.

I spent waaaay too much time in that game, to the point that I've heard its lobby music far more than any other song in my life. Maybe someday I'll write the story of PSO hacking.

Re:My PSO hacking days (0, Troll)

Rinikusu (28164) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369061)

So....

you admit to being one of the people that fucked it up for everyone else?

Congratulations. You're a fucking douchebag. I hope you get cancer and die.

Re:My PSO hacking days (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29369383)

You just did *whew*

Re:A great console (1)

hson (78256) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367821)

Another good thing - It runs NetBSD!

Re:A great console (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368269)

>>>remember playing Phantasy Star Online over the 56k modem before the term MMO even existed.

Bzzz.

I've been playing MMO games since the text-only 1980s. They predate the 1999 DC console by about fifteen years. We also had the capability to play graphics-based games in direct head-to-head competitions over 2 kbit/s phone lines. It still amazes me that those things worked over such slow connections, but they did and I loved challenging friends in Populous.

Re:A great console (1)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368389)

This is true, it was a fantastic console and such a shame it didn't last the race. I remember playing Phantasy Star Online over the 56k modem before the term MMO even existed.

I'm pretty sure I heard that term used in the leadup to UO, which came out two years before the DC.

Re:A great console (1)

losinggeneration (797436) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368807)

A new open source *nix server for PSO was unofficially released today (I think BlueCrab will mame me if I say too much more :P)

Re:A great console (1)

TheBlueCrab (801925) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369159)

A new open source *nix server for PSO was unofficially released today (I think BlueCrab will mame me if I say too much more :P)

I probably wouldn't be all that harsh. Probably.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (3, Interesting)

kipin (981566) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367141)

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (still the apotheosis of 2-d fighting; just try finding a copy on ebay)
Hmm, ok.

That was Hard... [ebay.com]

And to think, I own this game and it is collecting dust somewhere. Perhaps I should list it on ebay and retire to some faraway country.

Re:Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (1)

Korbeau (913903) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367409)

The original Marvel vs. Capcom is the real classic in my opinion, MvC2 being a bastardized child.

Re:Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29367499)

A game for a 10 year old console that still sells for 30$ is pretty valuable.

How many original PlayStation or N64 games sell for that much? Maybe a handful, but not many.

Re:Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (1)

WaroDaBeast (1211048) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367819)

I own this game and it is collecting dust somewhere.

So's mine. I think got tired of mashing the low punch/kick, middle punch/kick, high punch/kick combos and of superjumping all over the place firing missiles. KoF [wikipedia.org] though? I still play it on a regular basis. I really can't believe that of all 2D fighting games that were released for the Dreamcast, the OP chose MvC2. What about the one I've just mentioned, KoF? What about Garou [wikipedia.org] ? What about Street Fighter III [wikipedia.org] ?

Re:Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (1)

mathx314 (1365325) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368605)

A few years ago I was planning to sell off some of my old Dreamcast games, among them Marvel vs. Capcom 2. I did an eBay search to figure out how much I'd get, and the search turned up about $700-$1000. Naturally, I was pretty excited. Then I saw the word "Arcade" next to most of the listings, and a few with the word "Dreamcast" next to them. Those ones were more like $10. I was pretty pissed.

Re:Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (1)

losinggeneration (797436) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368777)

Really they probably should have said something like the BBA. It's typically hard to find one for under $200 (Though there is only one on ebay ATM for a buy now of $159 which is quite a deal!)

Scratching the surface (3, Informative)

Hatta (162192) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367231)

For such a short lived console, it's amazing how many great games there are for it. You can't forget about Ikaruga, one of the finest top down shooters ever. Or Rez, one of the finest rail shooters ever. It's got a couple world class JRPGs, Skies of Arcadia and Grandia II, and one of the best adventure games ever released for a console, Shenmue. Then there's Crazy Taxi, Bust-a-move 4, Powerstone, Ecco, Typing of the Dead, Virtua Tennis (so much fun with 4 players), and that's just off the top of my head.

Re:Scratching the surface (1)

ezelkow1 (693205) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367311)

+1 for rez, I hooked by dc back up again just to play that game. Its always a nice relaxing experience to zone out to. Then again they did port it to the ps2 and release for the 360, but since I own neither I stick to the DC. Also another good one that was much less known was Cosmic Smash. Its like single player racquetball against blocks, its pretty damn fun

Re:Scratching the surface (1)

Pronkzilla (1219910) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367465)

Virtua Tennis was incredible multiplayer. I haven't played a tennis game since then that was so much fun. Again, Dreamcast nostalgia here, but I could still entertain myself for hours upon hours with Virtua Tennis, MvC 2, and NFL 2k.

Re:Scratching the surface (1)

r7allbusiness (1573173) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367525)

Happy to see a DC article on here, I just dug mine out of storage a month ago! Four controllers, jump packs, VMU's, light guns for House of the Dead 2... This system might see another 5 years of use, as long as I can introduce more people to Powerstone..

Re:Scratching the surface (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29368647)

Don't forget Chu Chu Rocket multiplayer!!!

DC = best system evar! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29367253)

DC = best system evar!

the only good console games you can't play on it are the Skate series and SF4.

SF3 third strike is the best game ever created.

Shut. The fuck. Up. (-1, Troll)

exley (221867) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367293)

Jesus, I don't think I've ever seen so much rhetorical fellatio going on in a single summary. And I've read plenty of head-over-heels summaries here on /. You even managed to get in a dig on MS. Kudos. Your enthusiasm is at 11; we need you to bring it down to around 6.

Re:Shut. The fuck. Up. (1)

Pronkzilla (1219910) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367593)

Jesus, I don't think I've ever seen so much rhetorical fellatio going on in a single summary. And I've read plenty of head-over-heels summaries here on /. You even managed to get in a dig on MS. Kudos. Your enthusiasm is at 11; we need you to bring it down to around 6.

Sounds like you should do the same thing.

Ataris later consoles were also underappreciated (2, Informative)

MaraDNS (1629201) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367509)

Other good consoles that also were under-appreciated were the Atari Lynx [wikipedia.org] and the Atari Jaguar [wikipedia.org] . The Atari Lynx was truly ahead of its time, a full color portable console in the day and age when the Nintendo Game Boy had all of four shades of gray for its games. The games were excellent, including the fully three dimensional Stun Runner and a 3D fighter shooting video game; no other portable console could come close.

The Jaguar was also ahead of its time, with textured 3D graphics in an era when the SNES needed a special RISC chip in a video game to deliver untextured 3D (Star Fox).

Both consoles had the same problem: They were released by Arari. Retailers remembered being burned by Atari in the 1983 video game crash [wikipedia.org] , when Atari would not accept returns for Atari 2600s that were not selling in the end of 1983, forcing retailers to sell the consoles and games at a loss, at great financial cost. So, Atari's errors in the early 1980s resulted in them being unable to release a successful console in the early 1990s.

Re:Ataris later consoles were also underappreciate (1)

future assassin (639396) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368343)

The Jaguar was overpriced at least in my area. I remember Consumer Distributing selling it for like $400+ and that was still in 93 while the 3DO was like $600+ I eventually got my Jag in 95 for $75 with several games.

Re:Ataris later consoles were also underappreciate (2, Interesting)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368511)

I agree on the Atari Lynx being ahead of its time, but the Jaguar had lousy graphics, especially when compared to the PS1 released just one year later. No wonder it flopped.

Also despite Atari's last-ditch attempts to rename Jaguar as "Jaguar 64", nobody was fooled. Everyone knew it was a 32-bit 68000 CPU - same thing that ran the five-year-old Sega Genesis and the 10 year old Macintosh or Amiga. The Jaguar has a better GPU, but that was its only advantage over those other machines.

And you mention Super Nintendo which you are correct required an extra chip to make 3D Starfox, but so what? It still produced three-dimensions at no extra cost to the consumer. People were willing to stick with the SNES and then jump to the PS1, and ignore the Jaguar as nothing of note.

Skys of Arcadia (2, Insightful)

greymond (539980) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367555)

Was probably one of the funnest games I ever played through. I wish they'd make a new version for the PS3.

Re:Skys of Arcadia (1)

ryry (198300) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367765)

Seconded.

Re:Skys of Arcadia (1)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368071)

Was probably one of the funnest games I ever played through.

Agreed.

Skies of Arcadia is definitely one of the top 3 console RPGs for me. Terrific game. Great gameplay mechanics... Fun characters... Some innovative elements...

Exploring the skies in your very own airship, discovering uncharted territories... Using the beeping of the VMU to track down those shards... Airship combat...

Wow. Seriously wish I still owned a Dreamcast and a copy of that game.

Re:Skys of Arcadia (2, Informative)

butalearner (1235200) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368615)

Unfortunately I never had a Dreamcast but I absolutely loved Skies of Arcadia: Legends on the Gamecube. It has some additions and improved loading times, but it lacked that VMU feature. A Skies of Arcadia sequel would automatically jump to the top of my "to buy" list. FYI, Vyse and Aika are playable in Valkyria Chronicles on the PS3, which is also an excellent game.

Re:Skys of Arcadia (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369133)

I agree, except they should do the sensible thing and make the sequel multiplatform.

Skies of Arcadia was the most 'adventuresome' RPG I think I've ever played on a console. Not the most technically impressive, or profound, or most innovative... but the most pulpy fun pirating adventure.

Those are some rose tinted glasses (2, Insightful)

jandrese (485) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367575)

Wow, the DC had good games, that's for sure, but it was also plagued with one of the least comfortable controllers since the awkward devices of the 8 bit era. I can't be the only one who couldn't play a DC game too long before my thumb felt like it was shredded to ribbons. That was the sharpest D-Pad ever to grace a controller AFAIK.

The Visual Memory Unit was completely gimmicky as well.

Re:Those are some rose tinted glasses (1)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368115)

Wow, the DC had good games, that's for sure, but it was also plagued with one of the least comfortable controllers since the awkward devices of the 8 bit era. I can't be the only one who couldn't play a DC game too long before my thumb felt like it was shredded to ribbons. That was the sharpest D-Pad ever to grace a controller AFAIK.

Meh. I never found the Dreamcast controller all that unweildy. Lots of folks complained about it... But I just never had that hard a time with it.

The N64 controller, however, drove me up the wall.

The Visual Memory Unit was completely gimmicky as well.

The VMU had some real possibilities... But with the exception of one or two games (Skies of Arcadia) it was completely neglected. Definitely some wasted resources there.

Re:Those are some rose tinted glasses (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368941)

>>>The N64 controller, however, drove me up the wall.

The N64 controller works just fine as long as you ignore the far-left "prong". Yeah I know what you're thinking - why have the left prong if you're not going to use it? Beats me. Nvertheless the N64 works just fine for controlling Link or Mario or Resident Evil's heroine as they move-around their 3D worlds. Plus I think the N64 controller deserves credit for being the first controller to have an analog control stick. (No I'm not counting the Atari 5200's messed-up joystick.) The PS1 quickly followed suit and copied Nintendo's analog control.

When I bought a Dreamcast (1)

TheModelEskimo (968202) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367623)

I found out that Dreamcasts were going for $70 at my local Rite-Aid, so I did a quick newsgroup search to find out if any of the games were that great, and which. Turns out a nearby CD shop had a ton of 'em. Bought Soul Calibur, Jet Grind Radio, Dance Dance Revolution (with dance pad) and Chu Chu Rocket.

Chu Chu Rocket sat there unused for days while my roommates played Soul Calibur. Then we pulled it out one Saturday morning and discovered that it was probably the best game I had purchased. Even people who didn't normally enjoy puzzle games were addicted to it.

I still have everything boxed up...maybe I'll pull it out today and give it a play.

Time to dig it out again. (1)

Happler (895924) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367647)

I think that I currently have 3 DC's in storage with a ton of games. I guess that it is time to dig it out and play it again...

Shenume3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29367897)

I would be a little more happy if it was Shenume3 that was being released. Besides the awkward fighting mode that was one of the most fulfilling games I think I ever played.

Funny that you mentioned (4, Interesting)

SynbiosVyse (1398873) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367957)

When I woke up this morning and looked at the calendar, the first thing that came to mind was flashbacks of buying my Dreamcast on 9/9/99 at Sears. I still have it and it's box, close to new condition, along with 4 controllers and a plethora of games and accessories (4 VMU's, Tremor packs, keyboard, mouse, I even had the BROADBAND adapter aka a NIC). Dreamcast is probably my favorite system of all time. Favorite games: 1) Skies of Arcadia (one of the best RPG I have ever played) 2) Shenmue 3) Soul Caliber Sonic Adventure, Jet Set Radio, Phantasy Star Online, and many many others were great as well. People don't realize how revolutionary Dreamcast (and SEGA) was and how much it influenced the other future consoles. Look at Saturn, the first console to support internet-based play. I stil have my 28.8k NetLink modem. Dreamcast pushed online gaming even further by supporting 56k and having an optional LAN card. Games like PSO set a benchmark for many other MMORPGS like WoW. Although SEGA failed at marketing and spent way too much time trying to improve one of my other favorite systems, the Genesis ( with the 32x and SEGA CD), they were still on the cutting edge of console technology, and set an example that many future consoles and games followed.

Lack of BBA (1)

Average (648) | more than 4 years ago | (#29367997)

If it had been possible to find a broadband adapter for less than I paid for the console (on closeout), I'd probably still have it hooked up as a hacktoy.

Using the modem (2, Interesting)

nolife (233813) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368267)

I don't remember the exact specifics because this was in 2000 but I used a USR modem in my Linux router and attached the DC modem directly to it. I configured pppd and mgetty there to accept a blind "dial" from the DC to get internet access through my cable connection. I guess using the DC broadband adapter would have been easier but they were too costly at the time. That was probably the last time I ever used pap-secrets file.

You can still buy them (3, Interesting)

TejWC (758299) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368385)

Think Geek still sells brand new Dreamcasts [thinkgeek.com] . Maybe I should pick one up now there are some "new" games ;).

Re:You can still buy them (1)

Dripdry (1062282) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369361)

there have been new games coming out for the DC for years.

Ikaruga, Border Down, and Under Defeat to name 3. There may be more.
Do a search on Gamefaqs, I'm sure stuff will turn up.

Me = Old Already? (1)

mqduck (232646) | more than 4 years ago | (#29368933)

This is filed under Classic Gaming? Ouch... The Sega Saturn (along with the PS and N64) was the first "next-gen" I was aware of in my lifetime, and that's even older.

cd's (1)

gmermnstinsmermwords (1627107) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369261)

the prating can be a force of popularization. microsoft came about- didn't they? I might drop some bucks on a dreamcast os if it let me play freemarket x32 games

Dreamcast is still being used (1)

Orion Blastar (457579) | more than 4 years ago | (#29369399)

I know people that still use old video game systems. I got an old Atari 2600, Sega Genesis, and Nintendo 64 system myself. My brother-in-law has a Sega Saturn.

Half.com has a list of Dreamcast video games [ebay.com] and they are so cheap that it doesn't make sense to pirate them anymore. I remember the Dreamcast was the first system to get a mod chip to play pirated games.

Anyway Half.com shows the Sega Dreamcast for sale here [ebay.com] for those who want to buy a system.

Basically you can buy a lot of cheap Dreamcast games and a Dreamcast system for cheaper than the cost of a brand new PS3, XBox 360 etc system to emulate Dreamcast games on, not that there is a Dreamcast emulator that works yet for those systems. :)

Sega had a good product but had poor marketing and the PS2 and Gamecube outmarketed the Dreamcast and also had more popular games. Like the Gamecube had the Mario, Donkey Kong, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, etc games, and the PS2 had Toy Story, Star Wars, and many other popular games. Suddenly the Sonic series didn't seem that interesting anymore to gamers, until later when recreated for the other consoles when Sega went software only and dropped their consoles.

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