(Near) Constant Internet While RV'ing? 438
Neilio writes "What systems would Slashdotters recommend for staying connected while RV'ing across the US and Canada? While a 3G data plan seems obvious, the intrepid RV'er wants to get remote and into those parts of the coverage map that are usually gray (no coverage). But satellite can be expensive, includes high latency for VoIP and gaming, and requires a clear view of the southern sky. I've come across some intriguing products that use an amplified 2G/3G signal and bridge to WiFi, like WiFi In Motion, and CradlePoint's MBR1000 (I have no affiliation with either). Do folks have any experience with these, or can you recommend another approach (even homebrew)? While I am an electrical engineer by degree, you have to go back a few decades since I last expertly sported a soldering iron, so the less DIY the better. My wife and I now run a web-based business, so nearly daily connectivity is a must, no matter where we are."
Iridium? (Score:5, Informative)
Very slow and very expensive, but as they have lots of satellites in polar orbit, you just need a clear view of the sky. Maybe use it only where you can't get a cellphone connection.
Re:Iridium? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Iridium? (Score:5, Informative)
32kbps, 150MB for a thousand a month, per-minute thereafter. Basic hardware package seems to be around five grand. 3G+Hughesnet would be vastly faster and cheaper for what he wants to do.
Re:Iridium? (Score:5, Funny)
But it's still cheaper than Verizon!
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Ok, since you (and a couple other posters) have no clue of how comsats work, here it is:
TV sats, Inmarsat, Terrestar, etc.: one or a few birds in equatorial GEO (although polar/inclined GEO is theoretically possible, it makes no sense for comms). These can have a high-gain antenna with a tailored beam pattern to cover only the desired portions of earth';s surface (e.g. TV broadcasts may be aimed only at North America, with no power wasted on South America and the oceans), and you can point a high-gain anten
Cat V (Score:5, Funny)
Big spools of Cat V... it's cheap
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Re:Cat V (Score:4, Funny)
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Pff. Wireless is where it's at... [ietf.org]
Inmarsat (Score:4, Informative)
Inmarsat BGAN performs well however it is pricey for the setup and monthly fee. The advantage is that you can get coverage basically everywhere. There's also setups that allow tie-in for a phone, fax etc.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I agree. BGAN gets you 400Kbps of "best effort" service at $6/mb. Or dedicated "streaming" connections that will go up to 256K @ $22/min.
Thrane & Thrane make a mobile unit that tracks the satellite as you move.
Sprint Mobile Broadband (Score:3, Informative)
I have been using them for almost a year and the speed is OK (~1 M), the latency a bit high (~100ms). It is a 3G wireless card, plugs into a PCMCIA slot. I created a home router, but you can buy one that fits the card. If they ever get their act together, they might bump it up to 4G. All you need is one of their cell towers. And they have a map.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
But will it work outside of major metropolitan areas?
I live in Seattle. Last month I drove out to Yellowstone and camped there for three nights. My G1 (T-Mobile service, of course) had only roaming coverage east of Spokane (Washington). That meant no data access* in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. None. Good thing I was always planning on using Streets and Trips on my laptop if necessary and not Google Maps, eh?
Three years ago I went on a long loop drive that took me as far east as Ohio. I had a Nextel phone at
how about (Score:3, Insightful)
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What does wardriving do if you need to connect without stopping at every open AP you find?
Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want constant internet access, you must not go where there is no signal.
If you want to go enjoy remote places with no signal, you cannot have constant internet coverage.
Pick one.
Re:Priorities (Score:4, Funny)
What kind of blasphemy is this, advocating common sense on Slashdot!?
What kind of blasphemy is this, (Score:3, Interesting)
advocating common sense on Slashdot!?
Except it's not common sense. Common sense says a person doesn't need to be always connected. I know when I'm out hiking, with my camera equipment and laptop, I'd like to be able to upload photos and updates occasionally. I oppose being always available but connecting perhaps once or twice a day may be good.
Falcon
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah but unfortunately, no matter where you go, there you are.
Exactly the opposite (Score:4, Interesting)
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OP doesn't say whether they need constant internet access even while mobile, or if they have the option of releasing a tethered repeater balloon which soars to a height of 10km whenever they've stopped - even a remote place.
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Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me get this straight (Score:5, Insightful)
You say "the intrepid RV'er wants to get remote", but you want to remain in constant internet contact. You claim it's about your business, but you worry about latency's effect on gaming.
Why exactly are you heading out anywhere? Cuz it sounds to me you're not gonna to see anything that's not reflected in your computer screen...
Re:Let me get this straight (Score:5, Funny)
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I agree - why would you be gaming while on a RV trip? This almost like asking how to picnic while snorkeling.
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Re:Let me get this straight (Score:5, Funny)
His web business is WoW gold farming.
high latency == bad performance of SSH (Score:3, Interesting)
I admin a number of servers and work from home most days. My wife and I would love to live further out in the countryside without all the noise and light pollution. Most people that I mention this too have an instant solution: satellite. The problem that most people don't understand, and the problem I find myself explaining, is the concept of high latency. As I use SSH for my livelihood, low latency is extremely important.
Most people don't understand the negative effect of latency on interactive real-t
Re:Let me get this straight (Score:4, Insightful)
I go on vacations where I don't take my laptop and don't work, but on the other hand if I want to go somewhere fun and work for a while, what's the problem with that? It's not an either/or situation.
freak (Score:2, Insightful)
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Re:freak (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a bit harsh. Often RV'ers are gone for long periods of time. I know someone who spends his winters RVing in Mexico. he runs a business and needs to also be in touch with people regularly.
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You are being an asshole. A lot of people are losing their houses (or leaving them voluntarily ahead of someone making the decision for them, which is an unusually mature choice these days) and moving into an RV right now. Beats moving back in with your diaper-wearing parents. If you don't have any kids and are willing to get rid of all that crap you never take out of boxes anyway, it could even be fun.
I'm planning on getting a truck camper to go with my 1992 F250 4x4 Super Cab Diesel with 4" lift (but firs
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
most people (ie, non-slashdotters) take the RV to get away from the constant barrage of tech and telecom, to see sights not (web)sites, to look out the window and not at Windows.
Some of those people like to photograph, write, and otherwise document it too. Even when camping or hiking I like bringing my camera with me. When I was in the army my commanding officer made me the unit's photographer because no matter where we went to out in the field, my military occupation specialty or MOS was small arms speci
Both (Score:2)
Get a 3G and a satellite. When you're within range of a cell tower (which is almost everywhere, these days) you get the high speeds you want. Outside, you still have basic Internet connectivity via the satellite.
Or give it 20 years and I can almost guarantee you that you'll be able to pick up a high-speed, low-latency connection from anywhere on the continent.
3G zoom (Score:2)
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You ask the impossible (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't want to use satellite and you say cellular coverage isn't good enough. What exactly are you expecting? If there's no connectivity, there's no connectivity. No amount of homebrew can fix that.
You also seem confused by WiFi In Motion and Cradlepoint products. They don't amplify anything, they're just access points that you can plug your phone in to get wifi coverage. A laptop and a router can do the same thing.
You have two choices:
1) Pony up the dough for satellite coverage
2) Get a cellular data plan and live with no connectivity in dead zones
I don't believe there are any other alternatives.
Re:You ask the impossible (Score:5, Informative)
He could become a ham radio operator and use his home base as an internet proxy server. I don't know what the latency would be, but I would guess it would be better than satellite.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Well, there is always RFC 1149 [rfc-editor.org]
Not for business use (Score:4, Informative)
Re:You ask the impossible (Score:4, Informative)
Too bad he wanted this for work, because it is against FCC regulation to use the amateur band for commercial uses. Besides, the latency would most likely be worse than satellite and the downlink speeds would be much slower.
Not to mention, being out in the middle of nowhere usually means being out of UHF+ range of the nearest packet station.
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Anything related to the RVer's business is explicitly prohibited by the FCC on the amateur bands.
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WiFi in Motion does include a 3 watt amplifier and a high gain antenna, so it should get 3G signal at longer ranges than a normal mobile phone. However, it's not a panacea - satellite is the only way to get really complete coverage everywhere.
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You don't want to use satellite and you say cellular coverage isn't good enough. What exactly are you expecting? If there's no connectivity, there's no connectivity. No amount of homebrew can fix that.
It's only impossible until someone does it. Take almost everything you take for granted now back 200 years and you may find yourself accused of witchcraft. Radio wasn't thought possible until Tesla came along, or TV with Philo Farnsworth [wikipedia.org].
Falcon
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Screw Starbucks, any public library and many other establishments have FRE wifi. Hell, the bar I go to has wifi, and almost all its patrons are construction workers who don't even have computers, let alone laptops. I've never seen anybody in there use the wifi. McDonald's (at least the one on 6th street) has free wifi.
Do you pay for your air?
The easiest solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Product requirements;
- Decent latency
- Decent bandwidth
- Available everywhere
- Reliable
Solution; none. There is no product out there that will meet all four requirements.
It now falls to you to decide what your priority is. Given that you need to stay in contact because of business concerns, I'd guess you'd make the following priorities
1) Reliable
2) Low latency for voip purposes
3) Enough bandwidth for voip/email/image uploads
4) Available everywhere.
If that's the case, then the obvious answer is to simply NOT travel anywhere without 3g coverage. No other solution you are going to find will match your requirements otherwise.
Re:The easiest solution (Score:4, Informative)
You forgot inexpensive, as the submitter dismisses satellite for that reason.
I use a Thuraya [thuraya.com] handset when I am in the bush and it has worked the few times I've needed it, as long as it wasn't under a heavy jungle canopy.
RFC 1149 (Score:4, Funny)
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Intrepid? RV'er? It Hurts. (Score:3, Insightful)
intrepid RV'er
I may have a different definition of "intrepid" than you but to me there's nothing intrepid about any location you reach by road unless you're talking about hostile countries or might-wake-up-without-your-kidney parts of Mexico. Especially if you're on your laptop having a conference call while your TV dinners cook inside the RV.
Do yourself a favor and get out of the position where your business can't function without you. If you have you have to be a single point of failure I'm sorry you picked that profession in life and it's great that you make twice what I make but I would not trade places. If you want something moderately challenging then leave at home all your electronics and canoe/portage 50 miles into the Boundary Waters Canoe Area [wikipedia.org] for an intrepid vacation. Trust me, to see land so pristine was a near religious experience and I definitely went back.
Go white water rafting or mountain hiking or get dive certified. I'm sorry if your health doesn't permit this but I personally don't find anything intrepid about a recreational vehicle.
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Re:Intrepid? RV'er? It Hurts. (Score:5, Interesting)
Internet and Camping mutually exclusive (Score:2)
Not many options (Score:3, Informative)
3G with Repeater. (Score:3, Informative)
It won't give you 100% completely continuous coverage, but in areas where there is even weak 3G coverage outdoors but just not inside the RV, you could use a repeater. That allows you to put a really big antenna outside (it can even be directional) and the unit acts as a small local cell tower giving you full bars inside the RV.
Of course, if you go outside of 3G coverage, your phone will fall back to an older technology which is slower, and if you get out of data areas altogether you're screwed. However, you can supplement this in a lot of areas - many parks now offer WiFi.
I use a repeater at my house because, while I have half-decent signal outside, I have an aluminum-sided house and inside there's no signal whatsoever. I just use the included el cheapo antenna, but you can add some really powerful receiving antennas for some extra dough. My repeater cost about $300, and is a ZyXel unit, but Wilson and several other companies make various iterations of them with various antenna designs.
You'll still have to stick to at least fringe areas where signal is actually available, but it would significantly increase your range at least. Short of satellite, which you've already said you don't want, that's about it at the moment.
random comments (Score:3, Interesting)
2-way sat modems are very tricky to set up the dish. You can't just point them with a compass and azimuth guess like you do with DBS...you have to get feedback about how well the satellite is receiving your uplink. And if you do get it pointed correctly, every time you walk around the RV you'll move the dish a little bit and lose the uplink. Also, the "flat" dishes you see on top of escalades that work in motion are receive only. You cannot use a 2-way sat modem while in motion, period.
I think 3G is your best bet. I'd go with a cradlepoint and have a tetherable 3G phone (on a different network) as a backup. ( Possibly, you can plug two different providers' USB modems into the same cradlepoint and make handoffs seamless; you'd have to ask them to be sure.)
If you can park near someplace near civilization you'll probably spot an open wifi in about 30 seconds.
Final thing is if you're running a web-based business and can afford an RV and 3G phones and stuff, perhaps you can afford some employees to run the business for you while you go on an actual vacation.
Cat6 (Score:2)
Amp your signal (Score:2)
It won't help if there's NO signal, but in weak signal areas, signal boosting equipment can give you better cellular reception.
I work in the cellular industry, and Wilson Electronics' stuff is well-respected.
Disclosure: my company is a dealer. We have been told by carrier engineers that the carrier itself recommends and uses this equipment, though. And notice that I'm not giving you a link to our site.
This kind of equipment is expensive - somewhere around the $600 range - but you can get one setup that will
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Wifi (Score:3, Interesting)
Nationwide wireless internet sucks.
Stay at campgrounds that offer Wifi, problem solved.
KOA has tons.
http://koa.com/ [koa.com]
Packet radio (Score:3, Insightful)
If speed and latency aren't priorities and you can deal with unencrypted transmission, I'd recommend getting an amateur radio license and operating a packet radio [wikipedia.org].
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Replying to myself here. I forgot to add that the FCC also forbids the use of amateur radio for commercial purposes. Stick with the existing infrastructure for your web business. If you need daily connectivity, forget remote areas. Satellite internet is the only thing I can think of.
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What good are 300 baud and 1200 baud transmissions with latency measured in the tens of seconds? The email he seeks is to remain in touch with his business (not exactly kosher on amateur radio). He wants low latency for VOIP. Packet isn't going to do that. And considering the decline of packet radio within the hobby, there isn't much chance of being able to digipeat somewhere to actually *find* an internet gateway. There's Winlink, but then he's likely to have to pack HF communications gear.
More of a p
Two RVs (Score:2)
the people questioning why (Score:5, Insightful)
Half the comments have some portion dedicated to criticizing the idea of RVing and "being connected'. Why is it so hard to understand that liking the outdoors/road and having internet are not opposites. Everyone that is asking why he even needs internet should ask themselves why they want phone service when not at home. The internet is just as much a tool as a frying pan or a tent these days, and having access to it at all times is very useful. Not to mention that one could spend all day hiking around and doing activities outside only to retreat back to camp and want an hour or two of connectivity. Not totally insane if you ask me. As for how to do it? Well I am not an expert in that area so I will let someone else help out.
sprint mifi! (Score:2)
3G to WiFi bridge and balloon (Score:2)
I just did this trip: don't bother trying for wifi (Score:2)
Oddly enough, I just did this exercise... (Score:3, Informative)
My wife and I are considering an RV next spring and plan to take 1-4 week trips all over North America.
I did some research and concluded that a combination of satellite, 3G, and a WiFi repeater would give us reasonable results. The difference is that we DON'T have a business to mind, don't need low-latency links for gaming, and don't plan on going to the middle of nowhere. I figured that even the TiVO would work while driving, with a $2500 mobile satellite antenna rig on the roof.
You're asking for a "perfect" solution, which is your case, does not exist.
The simple solution is the 7P rule; "Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance".
Decide which is more important on any jaunt...going where no man has gone before OR grinding some quests in WoW.
Put another way...and most technology adheres to THIS rule; the three variables are GOOD, FAST, and CHEAP - pick the two that are most important for YOU to have.
I just got done living two years on the road. (Score:5, Informative)
Stick with 12volt hardware. This should be obvious. You will not need to run your genny to have internet access.
Pending where you are going to be this is what I have found to be the most flexible.
Buy a cradlepoint or something similar that can take multiple brands of 3g cards/dongles, with a secondary ethernet wan port. Make sure the 3g cards/dongles have external antenna connectors.
Buy an outdoor directional wifi CPE that has power over ethernet. Try to make sure it is 12v.
Buy a wilson outdoor antenna, extension cable ( if needed) and connector dongle for each 3g card. I prefer makeing a custom mount that attached to the ladder, than penetrating the roof, but that is your choice.
Buy a wilson amplifier, this is critical.
Buy a motorola cable modem, and a at&t wired dsl modem.
Locate a spot in the cabin that can wall mount the router, amp, and router the cables. I installed a separate lighted power switch for each of the 12v supplies, to make sure that the system had power and that I could cut it off and make it wife proof.
Install the wifi CPE on a pole and make a mount that will mount to the ladder or other strong point. I would not bother will any fancy ethernet jacks on the outside, just have the cable go through the basement into the cabin.
The problem with 3g is their 5gig limit. I would have a sprint and AT&T card. This should give you 3g over most of the US.
The reason for the WIFI, is that almost all decent parks have some form of either pay wifi or free wifi. Turn it on, turn off the 3g and you win.
All major truck stops have wifi, traditionally I always spent the night at flying J. I think their yearly price is not that bad.
If you plan on spending more the two weeks at a single spot. Look for parks that advertise cable television. So far all but one of them, I found that I could get my cable modem working. None of the parks will be aware of this. All you do is plug the modem up and if it gets sync, try to surf. Usually there will be a redirect to the cable companies customer disservice line. If not call the customer service line. Usually you give them the mac and you will be online in minutes. Make sure that there is no contract since they are not supplying a modem. Cancel service when you leave.
You can do this also with DSL on site supplied phone lines, but it takes days to weeks for the line to get turned up. I usually use dsl as a last hope.
While on the road use 3g, for the parks, plan ahead and call the parks office. They usually will know if they have wifi and sometimes will know if their cable supports cable modems. Always have 2-3 parks ready, and pay the daily rate until you have verified which park is the best for a fulltimer.
Good luck.
dhh
You're pretty much stuck with satellite. (Score:3, Interesting)
The only technology that blankets the planet is satellite. No other signal has the reach. It's that simple.
It isn't just HughesNet anymore, there are other companies in the space (get it?) now too, like WildBlue [wildblue.com], Skycasters [skycasters.com] and some others.
I would highly recommend picking up a portable satellite setup like you'll find by clicking on my signature. I'm not really shilling for it, it's my father-in-law's hobby business, but he has come up with some pretty cool stuff.
Re:What? (Score:5, Informative)
RV = Recreational Vehicle. It's a small (or sometimes large) home on wheels.
I think the Brits call them "Caravans", in case you're from that side of the pond. ;)
Re:What? (Score:5, Funny)
We'd probably call it a camper van. A large camper van.
A caravan is something old people tow behind their hysterically underpowered cars in order to clog up the smaller roads in rural Britain with maximum effectiveness for any public holiday weekend.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Good point.
An RV would probably more accurately be called a "Camper Van". My mistake. Though I don't know if you have a separate term for one the size of a bus, errrr, lorry.
A "Caravan" would be (depending on size) probably called a "Pop-up" (very small one that collapses), "Camper" (about the size of an automobile, the ones that Top Gear are always destroying), or a "Fifth Wheel" (if it requires a very large truck and sleeps more than 4) in the US, if I have my English to USEnglish translator working cor
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
In the UK a caravan is a caravan. If it sleeps 8 and has e.g. 2 axles and requires towing by a 4x4 or whatever, it's just a 'big caravan'. A smaller single axle one that sleeps maybe up to 4 is just called a 'caravan' or a 'small caravan'.
The kind of thing that collapses into a small trailer is called a 'trailer tent', if it's the thing I'm thinking of. Also an alternative name for a 'camper van' is just 'camper' or 'caravanette' (less frequently used).
Re:What? (Score:4, Funny)
Good, but leave it to the pros:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GZRmzuiig8 [youtube.com]
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RV = Campgrounds and Parking Lots (Score:3, Insightful)
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RV = Recreational Vehicle.
It's a synonym for "girlfriend".
Since you're probably unfamiliar with this term, here's an explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girlfriend [wikipedia.org].
Re:What? (Score:5, Funny)
That is odd I use my boat for recreation but it doesn't qualify as a RV. I use my off road rigs for recreation too. Someone care to explain?
Starfish aren't fish, either, and you park on driveways and drive on parkways. It's called language. Get used to it...
Re:What? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, no ... starfish may not be fish, but RV's certainly are recreational vehicles. That's a pretty horrible analogy.
Also driveways and parkways are both properly named, it's just your base assumption which is wrong. A driveway is a private path on which you drive in order to reach the house, and a parkway is a road which passes through a "landscaped thoroughfare" or a park. Both words make perfect sense if you understand their origin.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Starfish aren't fish, either...
The fish took offense to that name, so we call them "sea stars" [wikipedia.org] now. Keep up with the times, you insensitive clod.
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The bigger question is, why do we have a pair of underpants but only one bra?
I'm raising my eyebrow as I say this... (Score:3, Funny)
Very well said! This post deserves a score higher! Yes it's language, it's human, and it's not logical :-)
Fascinating...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It's just the term that's developed in the US for a large van or bus that has beds in it.
If you call it a "Recreational Vehicle", most "RV" drivers would look at you oddly anyway, so the acronym has largely lost its original roots.
Some call them "Campers", but that's usually a term reserved for the type you tow behind another vehicle. Somehow, the term "RV" came into usage for the ones that are built onto a chassis that has an engine and drivetrain.
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That is odd I use my boat for recreation but it doesn't qualify as a RV. I use my off road rigs for recreation too. Someone care to explain?
Its disambiguation.
From the wikipedia "The earliest caravans were used for practical purposes rather than recreation, such as providing shelter and accommodation for people travelling in search of an audience for their art, or to offer their services to distant employers, or to reach a new place of abode." (Yes the misspelling is wikipedia's not mine)
So, if people originally used boats for purely commercial purposes, and recently started using a slightly different style boat for purely recreational purpose
Re:What? (Score:5, Funny)
LoB
Re:What? (Score:5, Funny)
So it's like a lan party, only with more driving?
Re:What? (Score:5, Funny)
And less internet (see above).
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I advise forgetting the RV and traveling by hotel instead. I do a lot of traveling and all hotels have internet connectivity, even it's just a phone line. The better hotels let you connect direct to an ethernet line, like the one I stayed at in Oklahoma City which only cost ~$800 a month with free net access.
And the distance from the hotel to "nature" is typically only half-an-hour. You can go picnic, enjoy the outdoors, and then come back to the hotel for a hot shower and free cable TV.
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And the distance from the hotel to "nature" is typically only half-an-hour. You can go picnic, enjoy the outdoors, and then come back to the hotel for a hot shower and free cable TV."
I've wanted to
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one-piece jump suit? I don't think I've ever seen that. Depending on the geographic area, it's usually jeans and a t-shirt or loud golf shorts.
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