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How GNOME and KDE Spend Their Money

CmdrTaco posted about 5 years ago | from the they-balance-their-budget-in-windows dept.

GNOME 167

bluescarni writes 'A side-by-side analysis of GNOME's and KDE's quarterly reports sheds some light (and dispels some myths) on the nature and the quantity of the funds of the two projects.'

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already slashdotted (-1, Redundant)

FudRucker (866063) | about 5 years ago | (#29453463)

maybe even before the first post and its already down, TKO!

Re:already slashdotted (3, Funny)

bheer (633842) | about 5 years ago | (#29453705)

> When elephants fight it is the grass under their feet that suffers the most.

True. Also, when elephants make love it is also the grass under their feet that suffers the most.

Re:already slashdotted (-1, Troll)

dfetter (2035) | about 5 years ago | (#29454047)

> If non-organic food is bad because pesticides are, surely farmers who handle lots of it ought to be dropping dead?

The people actually handling the stuff are, in fact, dropping dead. The problem is that a lot of them don't have their papers, so their deaths get ignored, or at worst, celebrated by the racist right.

Re:already slashdotted (2, Funny)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | about 5 years ago | (#29454365)

What part of "A well regulated militia" do you not understand?

I think it's the 'A', definitely. I mean, when someone says "A..." whatever, what exactly are you supposed to infer from that? It has always confused me.

Re:already slashdotted (2, Funny)

Coren22 (1625475) | about 5 years ago | (#29454797)

"So, in other words, you're completely fucking wrong, you idiot retard. God bless." - ShakaUVM

Who is ShakaUVM, and why do they think everyone is fucking wrong and an idiot retard?

Re:already slashdotted (2, Funny)

ZarathustraDK (1291688) | about 5 years ago | (#29455407)

Eye Owl wise ewes a spill chucker - mcgrew

A bird, a sheep and an australian sex-toy?

Re:already slashdotted (1)

dvice_null (981029) | about 5 years ago | (#29455585)

> A bird, a sheep and an australian sex-toy?

Isn't the last item in your list just a synonym for sheep?

Re:already slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29455237)

I don't. I think it is the part the he conveniently omits.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

You see, A well regulated militia, is referred to in the sense, that it is necessary for maintaining the security of a free state. However, that is only there as explanation of why "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" is included as an amendment. You see, the people were the militia. I suspect it was the thought of he framers that the people of the country would actually care about their country and not just expect the government to take care of them, but actually be involved. The apathy of today has clouded the insight of the framers.

Re:already slashdotted (2, Insightful)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | about 5 years ago | (#29454777)

No, it's the people who are riding the elephants at the time that suffer most.

Re:already slashdotted (0, Redundant)

MrNaz (730548) | about 5 years ago | (#29454081)

Well this may be the first time not being able to RTFA reveals something from TFA: Obviously they don't spend their money on high quality web hosting.

Re:already slashdotted (1)

doti (966971) | about 5 years ago | (#29454395)

except TFA is not hosted on either

Re:already slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29454415)

Woosh.

Slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29453473)

Already slashdotted? :/

Re:Slashdotted (5, Funny)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 5 years ago | (#29453537)

A proof that we spend money on features and bug squashing, not on fancy web servers!

Re:Slashdotted (0)

ubersoldat2k7 (1557119) | about 5 years ago | (#29454079)

A proof of concept of not running GNOME/KDE on a server

What? No Pie Charts? (2, Funny)

koterica (981373) | about 5 years ago | (#29453475)

TFA has no charts or graphics. Is this why the summery has no real info beyond the link?

Re:What? No Pie Charts? (4, Funny)

Ash-Fox (726320) | about 5 years ago | (#29453517)

TFA has no charts or graphics. Is this why the summery has no real info beyond the link?

You must be new here.

Re:What? No Pie Charts? (5, Funny)

PitaBred (632671) | about 5 years ago | (#29453891)

Summery? It's feeling more autumn-ish here in the US.

Re:What? No Pie Charts? (5, Funny)

TheLink (130905) | about 5 years ago | (#29453905)

I think the server is feeling more Fall-ish...

Re:What? No Pie Charts? (1)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | about 5 years ago | (#29454821)

Too lazy to click the links to the data right there in TFA?

Sure, those SHOULD have been in the summary, but if you expected they would you must be new here.

What? (4, Funny)

Pig Hogger (10379) | about 5 years ago | (#29453477)

They don't spend it (all) on beer???

Shocking!!!

Duh! (2, Insightful)

denzacar (181829) | about 5 years ago | (#29453613)

It would be only logical to invest a significant portion of their liquid assets into services of adult entertainers and various recreational-drug paraphernalia.
Also, blackjack.

Re:Duh! (1)

oldhack (1037484) | about 5 years ago | (#29455183)

On further reflection, it would be prudent to ignore blackjack and drugs in favor of the remaining and more vital investment.

Duh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29453775)

Of course they don't spend it all on beer. How ridiculous!

Hookers are way more expensive than beer.

Re:What? (1)

ArsonSmith (13997) | about 5 years ago | (#29453995)

Not on their webserver either.

slashdoted

Re:What? (1)

gbarules2999 (1440265) | about 5 years ago | (#29454157)

No, they drink Free as in Beer.

Re:What? (1)

QuantumRiff (120817) | about 5 years ago | (#29454733)

Perhaps it really is Free as in Beer, and not just Free as in Speech?

simple. (4, Funny)

thhamm (764787) | about 5 years ago | (#29453481)

GNOME: beer & smokes
KDE: blackjack & hookers

Re:simple. (0)

Jurily (900488) | about 5 years ago | (#29453615)

I want GNDE.

Re:simple. (1)

daid303 (843777) | about 5 years ago | (#29453855)

beer and midget hookers?

Re:simple. (1)

bohmt (900463) | about 5 years ago | (#29453913)

beer & hookers?

Re:simple. (1)

h4rm0ny (722443) | about 5 years ago | (#29453677)


Well you've just validated my preference for KDE. These are clearly the healthier group of developers.

Re:simple. (1)

jornak (1377831) | about 5 years ago | (#29453763)

Well you've just validated my preference for KDE. These are clearly the healthier group of developers.

Until one of the KDE devs contracts Gonorrhea from the (cheap [read: free open source genitalia]) hookers, of course.

Re:simple. (1)

wwfarch (1451799) | about 5 years ago | (#29454161)

Just wait 10 years until they all have neurosyphilis.

Re:simple. (2, Funny)

PReDiToR (687141) | about 5 years ago | (#29455591)

That would explain KDE4 ...

For those of you who think this is a troll, KDE3.5 FTW.

Re:simple. (2, Funny)

tetsukaze (1635797) | about 5 years ago | (#29453695)

If we could get them to merge, we could have a new amazing desktop that would finally kill windows, bring us world peace and bring Utopian happiness to the masses. I shall call it Party Desktop.

Re:simple. (1)

dazjorz (1312303) | about 5 years ago | (#29454785)

It would make 2009 the Year of the Linu--- ah fuck it.

Re:simple. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29453803)

GNOME: beer & smokes

KDE: blackjack & hookers

You can bite my shiny metal ass.

Re:simple. (2, Funny)

pankkake (877909) | about 5 years ago | (#29454227)

You can bite my shiny Plastik ass.

Fixed that for you.

So the Beer and Hookers crowd (1)

wiredog (43288) | about 5 years ago | (#29453899)

Uses what?

Re:So the Beer and Hookers crowd (5, Funny)

ichthyoboy (1167379) | about 5 years ago | (#29454223)

Condoms, hopefully...

Re:simple. (3, Funny)

hduff (570443) | about 5 years ago | (#29455679)

GNOME: beer & smokes

KDE: blackjack & hookers

GNOME: gbeer & gsmokes

KDE: kblackjack & khookers

Fixed that for you.

Re:simple. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29455687)

Having been to both GNOME and KDE parties it is more like this:

GNOME: Pot, coke and dancing to techno
KDE: Beers, WiFi and europop kareoke

From the outside GNOME parties seems more like real parties, but more hacking gets done at KDE parties, which may or may not be a good thing. Note, weirdly KDE parties has a lot more girls attending.

Since it is already down... (5, Informative)

Pig Hogger (10379) | about 5 years ago | (#29453501)

How GNOME and KDE spend their money

Sep 16, 2009 10:20pm GMT

Bruce Byfield

Quarterly reports are the stuff of business. In most people's minds, they are as far from the spirit of free and open source software (FOSS) as anyone can imagine. All the same, as non-profit organizations, many FOSS projects issue them. And while your first reaction may be to avoid quarterly reports, they can give some insights into projects, especially if you read between the lines.

For instance, if you have been assuming, as I have, that GNOME has more corporate support than KDE, and a larger budget, a look at the latest report for GNOME [gnome.org] and KDE [linux-magazine.com] may surprise you. Together, the two reports give an entirely different impression than you might assume.

Neither quarterly report has much in common with the glossy publications offered by multi-national publications. Both are PDF files with undistinguished layouts and a minimum of graphics. Even head shots of people mentioned or reporting are absent. Compared to corporate reports, those of both GNOME and KDE are practical, unadorned publications.

Of the two, GNOME's (its first, covering June, July, and August 2009) comes closest to the spirit of a corporate report. It includes not only the obligatory message from GNOME's executive directory, but also reports from the Release, Bugsquad, Marketing, Web, Usability, Accessibility, Documentation, Art and Localizations Teams. Although some of these reports were outdated by the time the report was released, their overall impression is of a multi-tiered multi-national's executives reporting in. In general, the report fits in well with GNOME's traditional tendency to favor the corporate side and with its recent interest in marketing. Like most quarterly reports, it is as much a public relations document as an effort to provide concrete information (although it does both). The one non-corporate note is at the beginning, when executive director Stormy Peters asks readers, "please let us know if you find it useful!"

In comparison, KDE's report for March through June 2009 is less than one quarter the size of GNOME's. Although it includes the usual redundant introduction -- this time by Aaron Seigo, it contains far fewer individual summaries from GNOME's report. These differences may reflect the greater experience that KDE e.V. -- the German non-profit that manages KDE -- has with the whole idea of reports, and has the advantage that it is more likely to be read completely. At the same time, because it is so short, the KDE report seems less corporate, an impression that is fitting for the project's more community-based orientation.

Beyond these general impressions, what is most interesting is the financial accounting in the reports. The two reports are not strictly comparable, given that many FOSS activities occur in the northern hemisphere's summer rather than spring. Nor is it always obvious in either report what falls under each line item. Still, some differences emerge.

For instance, GNOME lists an income of just over $102,000 for the quarter covered by its report. This income includes $65,000 from the Desktop Summit, $20,000 from "advisory board fees" (which I interpret mainly as donations from corporate sponsors), and $12,400 collected by the Friends of GNOME [linux-magazine.com] , a promotional and fund-raising project.

Omitting the Desktop Summit as a one-time source of income, these figures mean that GNOME has traditionally relied on corporate supporters. Corporate supporters continue to provide the bulk of GNOME's income, but the total from Friends of GNOME suggests that GNOME may be switching to a more community-based source of income. However, given that GNOME reported an approximate income of $54,000 per quarter in 2008 (http://markmail.org/message/bsk4gush6hoq42ef), GNOME does appear to be suffering from reduced income this year; if you divide the one-time Desktop Summit income over all quarters, GNOME is apparently operating this year on about $47,000 per quarter.

By contrast, KDE's income for the quarter covered by its report totaled just over $111,000 (if you convert the figures from Euros to approximate American dollars). This is actually an increase from the incomes of $93,000 [kde.org] and $102,000 [kde.org] in the fourth and second quarter of 2008. In other words, despite GNOME's wooing of corporate support, KDE appears to have roughly twice the budget of GNOME in each quarter. And, just as importantly, KDE does not seem to have been affected by the recession.

What is not altogether clear is where KDE's income is coming from. However, if you assume that the Camp KDE sponsorships and donations indicate corporate donations, then KDE is attracting more support from business than GNOME, Assuming that "supporting members" refers to individuals, KDE is also is collecting more than twice as much from indviduals.

To keep running, GNOME spends $34,401 on wages and $3300 on employee travel, while sponsoring the costs of developers traveling to the desktop summit with $10,300. No other travel expenses are listed, so, presumably, GNOME spends a comparable amount for travel each quarter.

In comparison, KDE spends $17,000 on wages, plus some $2000 for legal expenses and $3,000 for board meetings -- presumably because a number of board members travel from North America to attend. Even so, its administrative costs are less than half GNOME's, despite its larger income.

Moreover, KDE also provides some $27,000 in travel expenses to events ranging from developer meetings, conferences and Camp KDE, a total well over twice that of GNOME, even in a quarter without the Desktop Summit. From these figures, it appears that KDE places a far greater emphasis on face to face meetings than GNOME currently does.

Considering these figures, you should not be surprised that KDE was reporting a positive balance of over $288,000. GNOME's total balance was not reported, but, considering that last year GNOME was expecting a short fall of some $40,000 [markmail.org] , the chances are that its bank balance is nowhere near KDE's.

These suppositions might change if we knew exactly what each line item involved. Still, the differences are consistent enough to make clear that KDE is more than holding its own in the corporate world. What's more, it appears to run more cheaply than GNOME, and to spend more of its money on its community.

These conclusions are no reflection on GNOME, nor on the current members of the GNOME Foundation. If nothing else, being centered in North America, GNOME might have been harder hit by the recent recession than KDE, which tends to be centered in Europe.

But these conclusions do show how your impressions can change when you get to the bottom line. KDE, from what I can see, is not the underdog that many imagine.

Re:Since it is already down... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29453541)

Or you can use the Coral Content Network [coralcdn.org] :
http://www.linux-magazine.com.nyud.net/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/How-GNOME-and-KDE-spend-their-money

Re:Since it is already down... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29453809)

Arggh, getting confused here. If the article is in the comments, am I supposed to read it?

Re:Since it is already down... (5, Funny)

Dishevel (1105119) | about 5 years ago | (#29454089)

Arggh, getting confused here. If the article is in the comments, am I supposed to read it?

No!

No matter how they try and trick you as a /.er you should never allow yourself to come into contact with the facts of a situation before commenting thoroughly.

Now after you have commented to your hearts desire you can ( If you choose to.) read the articles and even dive deeper into the facts of the situation. Just make sure you are "Fact Pure" while you are posting.

Re:Since it is already down... (1)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | about 5 years ago | (#29454909)

No, just mod the parent down.

Re:Since it is already down... (1)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | about 5 years ago | (#29454547)

Compared to corporate reports, those of both GNOME and KDE are practical, unadorned publications.

No it doesn't, it means their reports are less professional. See, professional writers understand that you need to break up the text by inserting graphs that summarize or support the text, pictures that allow for facial recognition of individuals, etc. because someone with Very Little Time (i.e. your average businessman) is going to skim it first to see if there is anything actually worth reading.

If you don't have these things, they assume it is not worth their time. And they are usually right if the report writers can't be bothered to make graphs and illustrations to support and emphasize their report.

They need to shape this kind of thing up if they want to get more corporate sponsorships. Not that a better report will itself draw much more support, but it is an indication of a complete lack of understanding of the way the business world works. As such they'll never get the funding they need, and will always lag behind the big players in the market.

Re:Since it is already down... (1)

crazybilly (947714) | about 5 years ago | (#29455883)

Who are the big players?

It's obvious (4, Funny)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 5 years ago | (#29453525)

They spend it on usability studies and graphic design, isn't it obvious?

Re:It's obvious (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | about 5 years ago | (#29453983)

That's a funny way of saying "beer and hookers."

Well, kind of obvious... (1, Interesting)

TheBilgeRat (1629569) | about 5 years ago | (#29453557)

Considering most large enterprise distros (RHEL, SUSE, etc) ship with KDE as the main DE, it shouldn't come as a shock that they are growing. That, and the infamous statements made by Linus concerning KDE vs. Gnome, perhaps?

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (5, Informative)

yuna49 (905461) | about 5 years ago | (#29453771)

Last time I looked RHEL shipped with GNOME as the default. A quick search through redhat.com did nothing to disabuse me of that notion.

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (4, Funny)

arizonagroovejet (874489) | about 5 years ago | (#29453783)

Considering most large enterprise distros (RHEL, SUSE, etc) ship with KDE as the main DE

Both SUSE's Enterprise offering (SLED) and RHEL default to GNOME. I don't know about etc.

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (5, Interesting)

bheekling (976077) | about 5 years ago | (#29453789)

No "large enterprise distro" currently ships with KDE as the main DE. SUSE is the only one that has decided to ship KDE by default, and that too very recently. Also, Linus's infamous statements are not a factor for people when deciding which DE to use. Seriously, they're not.

The reason why KDE is growing so much is because their community is insanely motivated. The only other community I've seen more motivated is the Drupal community. KDE is able to project a halo of (mostly valid) hype around itself which attracts users and hence contributors, which results in more features and hype, and so on.

OTOH, a lot of GNOME development is done by RedHat/Fedora dudes, and I constantly get the feeling that they are a closed book and don't pay attention to engaging the community and gaining contributors. There are exceptions of course, such as Richard Hughes [gnome.org] and Dan Williams [gnome.org] .

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29454393)

I know SuSe 8 had KDE by default

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (2, Insightful)

ducomputergeek (595742) | about 5 years ago | (#29454665)

SuSE had KDE by default back in 2000 when I was using it.

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (1)

bheekling (976077) | about 5 years ago | (#29455277)

Ah, right, sorry about that. They changed from KDE-by-default to "Choose what you want" in 2005, and now back to KDE [lwn.net] .

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (1)

Carewolf (581105) | about 5 years ago | (#29455743)

SuSE has always had KDE as default, though a few years ago it started leaving the choice open like in Debian. A month ago, OpenSuSE reintroduced the default to KDE.

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (2, Interesting)

gbjbaanb (229885) | about 5 years ago | (#29454763)

As GNOME foundation is running out of money, will this change the major distro's support, or will they stump up the shortfall when Gnome needs it?

Personally, I'd like to see Redhat, Debian or Ubuntu take KDE as the default. There's no reason not to now, and I'd like to see the competition between the desktop environments increase, that should drive more features and polish! If the KDE community have made such significant feature updates without being a major distro's default says a lot (of good) about it.

On the other hand, maybe the facty that linux runs Gnome is the reason it has never been popular on the desktop. A switch to KDE might be enough to make people try it, like it and stick with it! (yeah, sure, dream on :) )

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | about 5 years ago | (#29455435)

Personally, I'd like to see Redhat, Debian or Ubuntu take KDE as the default.

There'd be no point in Ubuntu taking KDE as the default, except creating confusion as Ubuntu with KDE as default changed names from "Kubuntu" to "Ubuntu" and Ubuntu with GNOME as default changed names from "Ubuntu" to, presumably, something like "Gubuntu".

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (2, Insightful)

Dark_Gravity (872049) | about 5 years ago | (#29455031)

SuSE 5.1 had KDE as the default DE back in 1997.

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (1)

t_ban (875088) | about 5 years ago | (#29455391)

KDE is able to project a halo of (mostly valid) hype around itself which attracts users and hence contributors, which results in more features and hype, and so on.

from the princeton wordnet [princeton.edu] : "hype: to publicize in an exaggerated and often misleading manner".

the word derives from 'hyperbole'.

from wikipedia [wikipedia.org] : "Hyperbole, meaning excess or exaggeration, is a figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated..."

i fail to see how any exaggeration can be valid.

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (2, Informative)

hduff (570443) | about 5 years ago | (#29455867)

No "large enterprise distro" currently ships with KDE as the main DE. SUSE is the only one that has decided to ship KDE by default, and that too very recently.

Mandriva has long shipped with KDE as the preferred desktop and offer a good implementation of it, but they also offer a choice of several desktops.

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (1)

TheTurtlesMoves (1442727) | about 5 years ago | (#29455915)

Slackware has used KDE as the default for ages. What? Its not a large "enterprise" distro? Says who! ;)

Well I have used it in some pretty high end enterprise servers... Of course these were all headless so KDE wasn't all that useful....

Its also my choice for my home PC for me and the rest of the family.

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (1)

walshy007 (906710) | about 5 years ago | (#29453873)

Considering most large enterprise distros (RHEL, SUSE, etc) ship with KDE as the main DE

While that might have been the case some time ago, for quite a while now most of the major distro's have been heavily focused on gnome

Kubuntu plays second fiddle to ubuntu, and a lot of ubuntu users have never even heard of it before. On fedora while kde is still well supported the default install does gnome, etc.

Re:Well, kind of obvious... (5, Funny)

bcmm (768152) | about 5 years ago | (#29454941)

and a lot of ubuntu users have never even heard of it before

To be fair, a lot of Ubuntu users haven't heard of Linux either.

Easy: hookers and blow (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | about 5 years ago | (#29453579)

What else do dot-com startups need to spend money on when they never actually have to sell product and make money?

Someone pays, but I don't have to? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29453587)

This is so cool. So let me get this straight. I am using free software but someone is paying to have parts of it developed?! Man, Microsoft must have REALLY pissed some people off a while back! :) :) :)

Re:Someone pays, but I don't have to? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29454183)

Welcome to the Internet.

KDE is investing (5, Funny)

should_be_linear (779431) | about 5 years ago | (#29453697)

KDE already spent donated money buying all buttons and check-boxes available on the market.

So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (3, Funny)

jdgeorge (18767) | about 5 years ago | (#29453749)

This seems to be saying that the GNOME and KDE organizations' funding are not a significant factor in the development of their related software.

In other words, this comparison tells very little of the actual funding that supports the development of either system. Presumably, those efforts are primarily funded through other entities (such as Trolltech, Linux distros, embedded device makers, etc.)

How are we supposed to have a GNOME v. KDE flame war without any significant data? That's like trying to have a debate about whether EMACS or vi is a superior editor on a device that has no keyboard!

Crap, I need a car analogy; can someone help me out here?

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (1)

jornak (1377831) | about 5 years ago | (#29453831)

It's uhhh... like trying to compare the speed of two cars without engines?

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29454167)

Actually, it's more like comparing the speed of two cars with engines, but not wheels. Each side is standing still while claiming that their engine sounds faster.

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (1)

oiron (697563) | about 5 years ago | (#29453841)

Debating whether Audi or Ferrari are better in a world without fuel, maybe?

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (1)

Burz (138833) | about 5 years ago | (#29455243)

Debating whether Audi or Ferrari are better in a world without fuel, maybe?

Or Gremlin vs. Pacer

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29455713)

I know you are making a joke, but the Gremlin actually was a decent car with the V8 engine. Surprizingly, it is a bit of a collectable now.

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29454005)

Car analogy: Both have sufficiently large tanks, but one consumes more fuel per mile/km than the other. Some people traded in their old "clunker" for the newer efficient model, where as others went and got "Classic" license plates and still take the road hog out on the weekends to show it off.

No one comes to a car show in a prius...

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29454111)

How are we supposed to have a GNOME v. KDE flame war without any significant data? That's like trying to have a debate about whether EMACS or vi is a superior editor on a device that has no keyboard!

vi obviously wins that debate.

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | about 5 years ago | (#29454647)

Crap, I need a car analogy; can someone help me out here?

"That's like trying to have a debate about whether EMACS or vi is a superior editor on a car!"

You're welcome.

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (1)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | about 5 years ago | (#29454981)

Gonna have to say Emacs.

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | about 5 years ago | (#29454651)

From TFA:

Considering these figures, you should not be surprised that KDE was reporting a positive balance of over $288,000. GNOME's total balance was not reported, but, considering that last year GNOME was expecting a short fall of some $40,000 [markmail.org], the chances are that its bank balance is nowhere near KDE's.

Crap, I need a car analogy; can someone help me out here?

So, KDE is a well-run BMW type of organisation - all German efficiency, modern design and cutting-edge technologies; whereas GNOME is more a bloated GM type org that desperately needs some bail-out money for its obsolete, resource-hogging designs and massive employee wage bill.

As car analogies go, I think that one works on so many levels :)

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (1)

Belial6 (794905) | about 5 years ago | (#29454773)

It's like debating fuel economies of the Chevy Volt vs. the Nissan Leaf.

Re:So, GNOME and KDE orgs not a big factor? (1)

hduff (570443) | about 5 years ago | (#29455901)

How are we supposed to have a GNOME v. KDE flame war without any significant data?

That's exactly what flame wars are all about. Good data only ruin a good flame war.

Misses the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29453761)

I think the article misses many things. The main complaint from KDE people is not that the GNOME Foundation is richer than KDE eV. It is that Red Hat, Novell, Nokia, etc have a lot of developers working on GNOME on their payrolls. And that is in the order of the many million dollars.

It may also explain some of the differences in spending. The GNOME foundation possibly has to sponsor less developer travel if their employers pay for it already. And these corporation may give less to the Foundation and instead pay people to write code.

Re:Misses the point (1)

Carewolf (581105) | about 5 years ago | (#29455845)

I think the article misses many things. The main complaint from KDE people is not that the GNOME Foundation is richer than KDE eV. It is that Red Hat, Novell, Nokia, etc have a lot of developers working on GNOME on their payrolls. And that is in the order of the many million dollars.

You are right, but you choose the wrong companies. Red Hat, you are on spot. Novell has more KDE developers than GNOME developers, but the GNOME developers have advanced to management and now makes the calls. Nokia bought Trolltech and switched Maemo to Qt, and are thus greatly helping KDE, at least indirectly.

Does KDE pay Aaron Seigo or does Nokia? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29453767)

Either way, someone could save some money by firing that hack. It seems like he's made it his purpose in life to make sure that KDE is a slow glitchy piece of crap.

Slashdotted already (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29453829)

/.'d already

Nitpick (4, Insightful)

Comatose51 (687974) | about 5 years ago | (#29454015)

"Neither quarterly report has much in common with the glossy publications offered by multi-national publications. Both are PDF files with undistinguished layouts and a minimum of graphics. Even head shots of people mentioned or reporting are absent. Compared to corporate reports, those of both GNOME and KDE are practical, unadorned publications."

What quarterly reports has this guy been reading? Playboy's? The reports I got from Berkshire Hathaway and GE are both pretty boring, unadorned, and filled with numbers and text. There is very little graphics. It just annoys me a bit that the author just wrote that, especially when it adds so little to the article itself. Stop writing for word count.

Re:Nitpick (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29454331)

He's a Hustler investor you insensitive clod!

Only needed 1/2 the article. (2, Insightful)

egandalf (1051424) | about 5 years ago | (#29454063)

Sorry to say that the guy dribbles on for half the article about what the reports LOOK LIKE. Why? Dunno. I reached this paragraph about halfway through the document: "Beyond these general impressions, what is most interesting is the financial accounting in the reports..." and thought to myself "finally!" Honestly. I don't need someone to describe the appearance/layout/graphics of the report. I daresay most folks going to read the article don't either. Still, the finance info was interesting - as interesting as finance info ever is.

Re:Only needed 1/2 the article. (1)

HermMunster (972336) | about 5 years ago | (#29455223)

He was trying to show that both organizations are efforting themselves into the realm of true businesses probably in hopes of gaining more corporate support and investment.

Look, Linux is nearing 100 million users world wide at this point. That's major. It also means that there's investment opportunity there. Zimbra has open source products and they were bought for a considerable sum. One of the SQL database products was also sold for a hefty sum. Those two remain open source. The possibility for these entities to reap some monetary reward is pretty great given the solid growth that Linux has achieved. It's no wonder they want to represent themselves in this manner. And if the adoption of standardized quarterly reporting is necessary then he's pointing out where some portion of their report is weak. I recognized that he spent too much time on the first part and so I skipped ahead to read the part that told me the purpose of the article.

Both (4, Interesting)

HermMunster (972336) | about 5 years ago | (#29455141)

I've used both environments over a long period of time on dedicated linux desktops. Both are competent products. Gnome looks good under Ubuntu 9.04. KDE 4.3 looks awesome as well. Both are sufficiently feature rich. Both add features rapidly on an ongoing basis. Both are solid products. The money is being well spent no matter how you look at it. I like that KDE has about a quarter million dollars banked. It shows strength and greater longevity.

My personal favorite, after using gnome for years, is KDE (which I have used since KDE 4.2). On a regular basis I see fixes and upgrades, though there still are some annoying aspects to it. After 25 years in computing and having dealt with Windows for most of that, KDE is probably the best and most well rounded desktop manager, even well beyond windows Win7, and certainly Vista. I have 4 Vista boxes in shop and I have a Win7 RC box for testing. I also have 3 Apple OSX systems. Nothing generally impresses me about them. I've watched compiz, beryl, and kwin turn into super feature rich, well balanced, polished and tailored products that in many ways existed before Vista was released.

Let's just say that I'm very impressed that these two organizations are producing products comparable or better than the competition. It is good to see that they are doing so much with so little.

Re:Both (1)

Fujisawa Sensei (207127) | about 5 years ago | (#29455643)

I've used both environments over a long period of time on dedicated linux desktops. Both are competent products. Gnome looks good under Ubuntu 9.04. KDE 4.3 looks awesome as well. Both are sufficiently feature rich. Both add features rapidly on an ongoing basis. Both are solid products. The money is being well spent no matter how you look at it. I like that KDE has about a quarter million dollars banked. It shows strength and greater longevity.

My personal favorite, after using gnome for years, is KDE (which I have used since KDE 4.2). On a regular basis I see fixes and upgrades, though there still are some annoying aspects to it. After 25 years in computing and having dealt with Windows for most of that, KDE is probably the best and most well rounded desktop manager, even well beyond windows Win7, and certainly Vista. I have 4 Vista boxes in shop and I have a Win7 RC box for testing. I also have 3 Apple OSX systems. Nothing generally impresses me about them. I've watched compiz, beryl, and kwin turn into super feature rich, well balanced, polished and tailored products that in many ways existed before Vista was released.

Let's just say that I'm very impressed that these two organizations are producing products comparable or better than the competition. It is good to see that they are doing so much with so little.

Unfortunately the KDE 4.3 control center still feels crippled compared with old 3.5 stuff.

Re:Both (1)

HermMunster (972336) | about 5 years ago | (#29455877)

Not in my opinion. It is sufficiently advanced to have caught up with most of the features, especially those that we all use day in and day out. Sure there are esoteric feature sets that haven't been implemented, but not everyone wants them nor needs them.

Terrible headline (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 5 years ago | (#29455473)

Jokes aside regarding how I shouldn't read the article, but the article doesn't even hint at where Gnome and KDE spend their money. Once again Bruce Byfield writes an empty piece of fluff.

I would be very interested in reading a nice, detailed article on where they do spend their money.

Huh (1)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | about 5 years ago | (#29455645)

I assumed KDE blew all their money on purchasing ever larger icons and hiring liguists to figure out ways to add the letter 'K' to every word in the GUI .

Re:Huh (2, Funny)

The Moof (859402) | about 5 years ago | (#29455903)

I think you mean the 'KUI'
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