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First Moblin V2 Netbook Launches

timothy posted about 5 years ago | from the still-want-to-rhyme-with-goblin dept.

GUI 70

nerdyH writes "The first netbook preinstalled with Moblin v2 for Netbooks will launch next week, possibly at Intel Developer Forum (IDF) in San Francisco, or else the Linux Foundation's LinuxCon in Portland. Then, within the next couple of weeks, the Moblin Project will release the first stable release of the Moblin v2 Linux distribution, which began beta testing in May."

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zOMG! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29457613)

Nilbom is moblin spelled backwards!

CO-WINK-EE-DINK (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29457823)

Moblin + GUI => Goblin
 
Coincidence?? I think not.

Nilbom is Moblin spelled backwards! (-1, Redundant)

olePigeon (Wik) (661220) | about 5 years ago | (#29457627)

Nilbom is Moblin spelled backwards!

Concept best applied as a shell/containment (4, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 5 years ago | (#29457649)

Instead of a distro, I'd rather see the Moblin concepts applied as a shell in Gnome and/or a containment in KDE 4. This is much nicer than the netbook containment concept I see the KDE 4 guys currently kicking around. However, as a complete distro, it suddenly requires package maintainers and much more support overhead. In that regard, Moblin seems to fall short.

Re:Concept best applied as a shell/containment (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29457773)

I once went looking for an API to their shell infrastructure, curious as to how extensible it was and how to write my own activities for it. But on their site they only provided links to documentation to existing libraries they use. I didn't look at the actual code but I have a bad feeling it's just a monolithic application and not an extensible desktop environment.

No - we need a speedy handheld device experience (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29457865)

One of the main things I want in a netbook is *fast* boot/suspend/resume. I want to pop it open and use it right now, like a handheld consumer device. Same goes for opening the basic apps. Think iphone, it's ready *now* when you want it, Safari opens fast. You wouldn't want this as your office desktop, but you really do want this as your on-the-go experience.

IF Moblin delivers this where others have failed, all hail Moblin. I'll even run it on my older laptop -- one with a 1.3GHz Celeron and 256MB of RAM that is too painfully slow to use with GNOME. It's OK as a desktop where you don't need to boot or re-start apps often, but as a portable it's not acceptable to wait and wait and wait...

Re:No - we need a speedy handheld device experienc (1)

zigmeister (1281432) | about 5 years ago | (#29458599)

I've got Fedora on my laptop. It probably boots about as fast as windows without crapware would, which isn't terribly quick ~1 minute. But it comes back from suspend like lightning and uses virtually no power on suspend.

I really like it for homework, because I can look something up quick, then suspend, work for another hour, repeat. I rarely run low on battery that way. I can't really give a time (like 4-5 hours) because each time is a little bit different with my usage, but there is more of a lag in me figuring out what to type in google than there is in it coming back from suspend.

Re:No - we need a speedy handheld device experienc (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29459605)

And I had Fedora on the system I mentioned until about F9 or F10 when the installer stopped working with my 256MB of RAM.

Fedora worked fairly well at suspend/resume on my hardware, (except that the wireless card hung on resume) but cold boot was really slow, and overall the desktop responsiveness was not up to par with what I want in a portable device, so I never carried it with me.

(And gads, 1.3GHz isn't enough to run a snappy desktop? BeOS would fly on that.)

I also tried Ubuntu 9.04, which ran similarly well for non-portable use. But Gnome and Firefox are RAM pigs, they're never going to be happy in 256MB. Something like Moblin that is targeted for the portable use-case is really needed.

Re:No - we need a speedy handheld device experienc (1)

WillKemp (1338605) | about 5 years ago | (#29463281)

I'm running Fedora 11 on my Samsung N140 netbook and it wakes from suspend almost instantly. I can't see any reason to shut down and reboot when the battery will last quite a few days in suspend. With 2GB RAM, apps start and run nearly as fast as they do on my Core 2 Duo Thinkpad.

Re:Concept best applied as a shell/containment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29458127)

As a complete distro it can be constructed so that it _only_ run on Atom processors, the whole point as far as Intel is concerned.

Re:Concept best applied as a shell/containment (1)

Auroch (1403671) | about 5 years ago | (#29458275)

However, as a complete distro, it suddenly requires package maintainers and much more support overhead. In that regard, Moblin seems to fall short

I suppose if you want to install moblin on everything, then yes. It falls short. Why would you want to do so? Did you need your fridge to run moblin?

It seems clear to me, If you install it on netbooks, the support will be excellent, given that it is designed for netbooks.

Re:Concept best applied as a shell/containment (4, Interesting)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 5 years ago | (#29459017)

Reading up on community responses to Moblin, it seems like many are not quite satisfied with the package selection, stability, and overall polish of the distro.

I'm certainly not an Ubuntu fan by any means, but one thing they do well, is have ten million packages ready for their distro. The more new distros out there that pop up, the more we fragment the community on packaging for each of these distros, and providing community support for each distro.

Conversely, the benefits Moblin provides is not suddenly primarily offered up only to those who are willing to migrate away from the distros they already enjoy, and give up the opportunity cost those distros might currently provide them.

Moblin is open-source, but if they focused their energy on simply providing a shell and optimizations for the Atom processor, that code would more easily directly benefit all existing distros, while requiring less effort on Intel's part, as opposed to creating an entire distro.

Re:Concept best applied as a shell/containment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29462459)

My experience was very similar.

Moblin is so far from linux desktop standards that it requires Moblin specifc applications to be developed. There are many nagging visible differences in linux application behavior.

Re:Concept best applied as a shell/containment (1)

Spykk (823586) | about 5 years ago | (#29458301)

Canonical agrees. They announced their intent to develop a moblin remix [ubuntu.com] for Ubuntu back in June.

Re:Concept best applied as a shell/containment (3, Interesting)

Aphoxema (1088507) | about 5 years ago | (#29458425)

I really liked MoblinV2 when I tried it on my wind but it seemed to keep falling short of my needs. Pairing my bluetooth mouse more than once was too much trouble, and I had all sorts of little nags. The way the bar at the top popped up every time I tried to close a window or anything was a nuisance.

So many things right are easily undone by the problems underneath. I'd just like to see the Clutter interface for Ubuntu, and more unique interfaces in general.

Re:Concept best applied as a shell/containment (3, Insightful)

Orange Crush (934731) | about 5 years ago | (#29459099)

I just want Moblin's atom optimizations and boot speed improvements rolled in to Ubuntu Netbook Remix. I'm pretty happy with UNR on my Acer Aspire One, and as much as I disliked the stock install of Linpus, it *did* have much better battery life and bootup times.

I don't want the stupid UI running on top of another distro, I want the under-the-hood improvements.

Re:Concept best applied as a shell/containment (1)

A5un (586681) | about 5 years ago | (#29460935)

I too like Moblin on my Acer Aspire One. It feels much better for a netbook than XP or Fedora which are also installed on the netbook. My only gripe is the media player doesn't come with proprietary codec support and I can't find any repo that provides those ala rpmfusion. Oh, that and no adblock for the moblin browser.

Re:Concept best applied as a shell/containment (1)

zdzichu (100333) | about 5 years ago | (#29462977)

Moblin UI draws heavily (dynamic workspaces, single windows, etc.) from GNOME Shell, which will be default in GNOME 3.0. Also, moblin packages were accepted in Fedora, so there will be Fedora Moblin Spin.
You can have both now by installing F12.

Re:Concept best applied as a shell/containment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29464831)

"Add support to Fedora for the Moblin Core NetBook/NetTop/MID desktop environment.": https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FedoraMoblin [fedoraproject.org]

New netbooks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29457695)

Will it actually have proper drivers for newer netbooks when OEM didn't originally ship with Linux (such as... amm... ASUS 100X series?)

Um...who? (3, Interesting)

filesiteguy (695431) | about 5 years ago | (#29457751)

I read the article (I know that's a suprise to many) but didn't see it saying exactly *who* is going to be releasing this next week. If they don't know at this point, it would be safe to bet that someone next week may *announce* a release but there's no way we'll actually see a release.

Also, I don't know if I see a benefit in Moblin. It is so far removed from what we're used to after some twenty years of Mac and Windows and X guis.

I tried it back in may and thought it intriguing but very different.

http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2009/20090526_moblin_browser.jpg

http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2009/20090526_moblin_desktop.jpg

Also - do they have flash plugins for the moblin browser? Will people want to use Firefox? Wine?

Different.. (4, Insightful)

msimm (580077) | about 5 years ago | (#29459357)

I don't know if Moblin will succeed or not, and I suspect many variables will play into that but am I the only one that sees their attempt at different as a rare but positive move? So far from the desktop-Linux world we've seen distros patch, compile and configure all the same pieces of open source software. This gives us a vary organic and grass-rootsy environment, and for familiarity and compatibility that's really great. But on the same note there's very little to differentiate one desktop distribution from another and I've typically made my decisions based on package manager and the size of the user base (popular distros/ good community support).

On the server I really think that all the above is important, and I'm in not hurry to see any of that change. However on the desktop all these marginally different distributions provide very little compelling reason to use one over the other and honestly without the branding (or having installed it myself) I'd be hard pressed to tell you which distribution I might be using at any given instance.

In the cases of commercial distributions aiming at the desktop, like Ubuntu or Mandriva I really see this a failure build on the advantages made available by open source software. Canonical could risk designing an operating system based on this wealth open source software, but instead they choose to focus on packaging and polishing disparate pieces of existing software, designed my a multitude of people for a for an even greater variety of reasons.

Distributions succeed at being usable collections of polished software, but they fail at being what I'd consider true operating systems because of the nature of their design and I for one hope that we continue to see more movement in projects aiming at the mobile and netbook market where it seems to be considered more important (or more plausible) to design the operating systems interface.

Granted, I'm not suggesting I'd like to see change for the sake of change but I would like to see a more serious attempt at OS design coming from somewhere in the Linux distribution space and right now that seems to be happening in the mobile space on platforms like Android and Moblin and I believe that the risk of good design could be a sea-change that doesn't just push Linux onto the desktop, but answers the question once and for all about the idea of a widely used free software platform. It simply makes too much economic sense.

Re:Um...who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29460081)

Moblin comes with Flash and other multimedia apps.

Moblin v2 UX beta is available as a livecd/liveusb [moblin.org] right now. Check it out for yourself.

Re:Um...who? (0, Troll)

VoltageX (845249) | about 5 years ago | (#29460323)

Maybe if they weren't so busy congratulating themselves they'd fix the abysmal support for the GMA500.

Re:Um...who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29464429)

Intel is not just big, it's huge. "Proper Linux Support" is a goal set by the very top management for all new hardware, but in an organization that big fubars do happen... If it happens again, then you have a real point.

Re:Um...who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29464503)

Also - do they have flash plugins for the moblin browser? Will people want to use Firefox

Flash works,, Firefox is in the repos for those who like it.

Once again a geeky name sinks good product (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29457849)

Moblin? What is it - a combination of "goblin" and a "mob"? No matter how I read it, the associations I get are just very negative. Can't sell a product with a name like that.

Re:Once again a geeky name sinks good product (5, Informative)

Estragib (945821) | about 5 years ago | (#29457957)

I get "Mobile Linux", but maybe I'm strange.

Re:Once again a geeky name sinks good product (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29460623)

I get it too. Tried the beta about a month ago on my Acer Aspire One. I was impressed with the GUI, although as a whole it wasn't ready for daily use yet (it's still in beta after all). I'm watching the project closely but I predict I'll stay with Ubuntu Netbook Remix even after the Moblin stable release. Why? Because with UNR it's easier to be a linux geek. (Can't live without my linux command line and all of its goodies.)

I see Moblin as an interesting project, but one that's aiming primarily for "mainstream" adoption (i.e. pre-installation on netbooks). UNR would be good pre-installed as well, but it caters more towards the geek, while Moblin caters more towards the average user.

Re:Once again a geeky name sinks good product (1)

koiransuklaa (1502579) | about 5 years ago | (#29464521)

I'm pretty entrenched on Debian as well so Moblin is a bit difficult to get used to, but you are wrong if you think "linux command line and all of its goodies" are somehow hidden on moblin: I usually have one zone (workspace) for xterm, which is not just available in the repos but preinstalled...

Re:Once again a geeky name sinks good product (4, Funny)

H0p313ss (811249) | about 5 years ago | (#29458525)

Moblin? What is it - a combination of "goblin" and a "mob"? No matter how I read it, the associations I get are just very negative. Can't sell a product with a name like that.

Interesting logic. I guess it's also hard for you to sell a product that's named after something as fragile as a pane of glass then?

Re:Once again a geeky name sinks good product (1)

Gulthek (12570) | about 5 years ago | (#29465919)

"Moblins" are mooks in the Legend of Zelda videogame series. I don't see how they relate to the story in question. I leave that connection as an exercise for the reader.

Great! (2, Funny)

aminorex (141494) | about 5 years ago | (#29457899)

Now can I get that on a snapdragon 1.5GHz please?

Ditching Windows on Netbooks (4, Interesting)

imgod2u (812837) | about 5 years ago | (#29458025)

So Intel developed Atom as an x86 processor because so much software runs on x86 and not, say, ARM.

Then Intel spends money developing a Linux OS for netbooks that's open source.

ARM just got free software from Intel and makes superior processors.

Re:Ditching Windows on Netbooks (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 5 years ago | (#29458897)

That was what I found particularly interesting about intel's decision to push moblin. As long as Windows is a ubiquitous expectation, so is x86(outside of the very narrow and peculiar ia64 niche, which intel also owns, and that one guy running NT on alpha). That would seem like something that intel would be loath to disrupt.

However, intel's actions seem to indicate otherwise. Their Linux drivers are generally pretty good(GMA 500 notably excepted), and they certainly didn't have to start moblin. I can only assume that intel is extremely confident in the strength of their fab expertise(which is considerable) or thinks that they have a shot at capturing some slice of the money that would otherwise go to Microsoft. It is curious, though.

Re:Ditching Windows on Netbooks (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | about 5 years ago | (#29459625)

That was what I found particularly interesting about intel's decision to push moblin. As long as Windows is a ubiquitous expectation, so is x86(outside of the very narrow and peculiar ia64 niche, which intel also owns, and that one guy running NT on alpha). That would seem like something that intel would be loath to disrupt.

As long as Windows is far and away the main support for x86 dominance, Intel's fortunes are dependent on Microsoft's business decisions, legal situation, etc. That would seem like something that Intel would be loathe to maintain. Intel wants its products to be dominant for reasons beyond the dominance of Microsoft's products.

Re:Ditching Windows on Netbooks (1)

PrescriptionWarning (932687) | about 5 years ago | (#29460279)

That was my impression as well. Also with Moblin you see a drive to push the lower end processors which have the potential to sell more units than their more expensive cousins that run Windows.

Re:Ditching Windows on Netbooks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29469221)

"Then Intel spends money developing a Linux OS for netbooks that's open source."

Well. Intel has always supported Linux OS (you know that Linux kernel is the OS, right?) but now they have supported the distributor who maintains the Moblin.
 

V-2 Rockets?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29458073)

Did anyone read this as "First Mobile V-2 Network Launch", then followed with thoughts of Command and Conquer: Red Alert?

Not really very interesting (0, Troll)

InsaneProcessor (869563) | about 5 years ago | (#29458083)

I have a netbook that runs Windows 7 just fine. I have a supply of applications that Moblin will not see in years (if at all). Yea, I have to pay for it eventually but I still have the huge base of applications that also run on my desktop. Just a waste of time, this moblin thing.

Re:Not really very interesting (2, Insightful)

node 3 (115640) | about 5 years ago | (#29458417)

Just a waste of time, this moblin thing.

Correct, because everyone is just like you.

Re:Not really very interesting (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29458537)

Just a waste of time, this moblin thing.

Correct, because everyone is ignorant just like you.

Fixed it for you.

Re:Not really very interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29458777)

Just a waste of time, this moblin thing.

Correct, because everyone is ignorant just like you.

Added redundancy for you.

Fix this.

Re:Not really very interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29459321)

Just a waste of time, this moblin thing.

Correct, because everyone is ignorant just like you.

Added extended redundancy for you.

Fix this.

Fixed it for you.

Re:Not really very interesting - DUMB POST (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29458451)

I have a netbook that runs Windows 7 just fine. I have a supply of applications that Moblin will not see in years (if at all). Yea, I have to pay for it eventually but I still have the huge base of applications that also run on my desktop.

I don't care and I don't even bother to explain you why there is already a bunch of applications that just run on moblin. Would it be because Moblin is Linux? Maybe because applications are opensource and can already run on a lot of arches? Did this made any *Bing* on your head? Just do your homework if you care, if not, just continue swimming on your own ignorance.

Just a waste of time, this moblin thing.

You really sound like Joe 6-pack talking. You don't really have a clue about this *thing*, do you?

Great! It's year of the linux NETBOOK! (0, Flamebait)

Auroch (1403671) | about 5 years ago | (#29458249)

Wonderful! It's the year of the linux netbook ... long live 2007 and the eee 701!.

Euh, I mean, 2009! With Moblin!

Re:Great! It's year of the linux NETBOOK! (1)

node 3 (115640) | about 5 years ago | (#29458463)

Wonderful! It's the year of the linux netbook ... long live 2007 and the eee 701!.

Euh, I mean, 2009! With Moblin!

Propaganda 101: exaggerate and ascribe claims to those you disagree with so that you can easily knock them down. Ex. Death Panels.

*If* you prefer Linux and *if* you have a netbook, this is nice news. If not, then what's it matter? There is no "the year of Linux", and until X11 is either repaired or replaced, there never will be. That doesn't mean every positive Linux story is rubbish just because it won't cause the world to switch en masse over to Linux.

Re:Great! It's year of the linux NETBOOK! (1)

Auroch (1403671) | about 5 years ago | (#29458743)

Propaganda 101: exaggerate and ascribe claims to those you disagree with so that you can easily knock them down. Ex. Death Panels.

What does this have to do with the parent?

Re:Great! It's year of the linux NETBOOK! (1)

node 3 (115640) | about 5 years ago | (#29459019)

Propaganda 101: exaggerate and ascribe claims to those you disagree with so that you can easily knock them down. Ex. Death Panels.

What does this have to do with the parent?

Because you tried to associate this story with being yet another "year of Linux" article.

I saw one in the wild! (0, Troll)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | about 5 years ago | (#29461477)

OMG another liberal freetard!

Re:I saw one in the wild! (1)

node 3 (115640) | about 5 years ago | (#29461789)

Oh my, how dreadfully clever. Now be a good lad and get back polishing your VAIO until you're ready to start acting like a grown-up.

Re:I saw one in the wild! (1)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | about 5 years ago | (#29464755)

... says the extremely mature american who promotes his political health care agenda during a discussion on linux.

Re:I saw one in the wild! (1)

node 3 (115640) | about 5 years ago | (#29470965)

I see. You're offended that I called the notion that the health care bill has "death panels" absurd. How quaint!

I thought I told you to go polish your VAIO? Now, get. You want it to be nice and shiny for when those Glenn Beck torrents finish! If you're not a good boy, Dick Cheney will come and take you hunting with him!

Re:I saw one in the wild! (1)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | about 5 years ago | (#29477927)

Heh, I'm not offended at your talking points. I'm offended that you think you're arguing, when you're actually just spewing the same talking points offered elsewhere (for both linux liberals). Seriously, if you can't formulate a unique idea, at least steal something slightly more original.

And you call me a fanboy. At least I realize it.

Re:I saw one in the wild! (1)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | about 5 years ago | (#29477931)

Isn't this typical american bullsh!t. You assume I'm american, simply because you are. (Or for whatever reason). It's fairly indicative of how close-minded americans really are.

Re:Great! It's year of the linux NETBOOK! (1)

serviscope_minor (664417) | about 5 years ago | (#29458937)

Oh great. Another ignorant X basher. What do you think is wrong with X 11.7.4, picking a recent version for example? And those problems, are they really wrong with X, or some flaws in the specific xorg reference implementation?

I have yet to meet an X basher who really understands it (and it's flaws) properly. Or the benefits and flaws of other windowing systems for that matter.

And, most of the people who actually act on the "throw it away" premise really seem to insist on ditching everything that X got right, and often failing to fix what was wrong. Take, eg gnome and it's wretched configuration database, compared to xrdb. It is quite clear that none of the gnome devs have machines with an NFS shared home directory, a hetrogeneous environment or much need for remote X at all. If they did, they would have paid far more attention to what xrdb got right, and fixed the real flaws rather than reimplementing the windows registry of all things.

Re:Great! It's year of the linux NETBOOK! (1)

node 3 (115640) | about 5 years ago | (#29459305)

Oh great. Another ignorant X basher. What do you think is wrong with X 11.7.4, picking a recent version for example? And those problems, are they really wrong with X, or some flaws in the specific xorg reference implementation?

When I mentioned X11, I was referring both to the standard itself, and the present implementation (including extant window managers and desktop environments).

Architecturally, it's a mess. You have the core portion, which is little more than a network transparent way of drawing rectangles, moving a cursor around and typing. On top of that, all the extensions, like Xinerama, and the various and incompatible acceleration/3d modules. Next is the slew of various and disparate libraries for doing *standard* things like drawing shapes and buttons. And finally, the various window managers and desktop environments do their best (which is pretty damned awful) to mix it all together into something remotely resembling a user interface.

I have yet to meet an X basher who really understands it (and it's flaws) properly. Or the benefits and flaws of other windowing systems for that matter.

I think this may be because you are looking at X11 with blinders on. If you look at just the protocol itself, I can see why someone might think there's nothing wrong with it, because the overwhelming majority of its flaws are further down the chain. Sound, 3D, window compositing, UI, desktop environment, multimedia support, all those things are on top of X11, so they might seem like separate problems, but because none of these are inherent to X11, they have to be bolted on. The two main graphical environments, Windows and Mac OS X, have a coherent and integrated set of technologies, and this is what X11 sorely lacks.

And, most of the people who actually act on the "throw it away" premise really seem to insist on ditching everything that X got right, and often failing to fix what was wrong.

X got *nothing* right. The only thing even remotely positive about X is that you can display your programs on a remote display without needing to do anything special, and it does such a piss poor job of it that unless you want to mix windows from various machines (which *is* pretty cool, however), you're generally better off just running VNC.

Take, eg gnome and it's wretched configuration database, compared to xrdb. It is quite clear that none of the gnome devs have machines with an NFS shared home directory, a hetrogeneous environment or much need for remote X at all.

NFS is another crap protocol. But that's a side issue, except for the similarity in that the open source/unix crowd really needs to work on replacing the foundations of their system (the Linux kernel, the POSIX environment and the GNU utilities are just about the only things *right* about Linux). NFS is so awful, it's better to just run SAMBA in most cases.

But back to X11. It needs to be scrapped, but it's got so much inertia that all of the various projects that have aimed to replace it have gained little traction.

If they did, they would have paid far more attention to what xrdb got right, and fixed the real flaws rather than reimplementing the windows registry of all things.

I agree. Gnome's two biggest mistakes are trying to emulate classic Mac OS too closely, and their configuration system.

Re:Great! It's year of the linux NETBOOK! (1)

petrus4 (213815) | about 5 years ago | (#29458731)

Euh, I mean, 2009! With Moblin!

"It is the YEAR OF THE PENGUIN! It is finally here! TUX, ARISE!"

Touchscreen (1)

LordAndrewSama (1216602) | about 5 years ago | (#29458457)

I looked at moblin a while ago and thought the design better suited for touch screens rather than keyboard/mouse inputs.

Re:Touchscreen (0, Troll)

InsaneProcessor (869563) | about 5 years ago | (#29459513)

keep dreaming.

Re:Touchscreen -- TROLL HERE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29460593)

Moderators, please have a look.

NOT READY, DO NOT WANT (2, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 5 years ago | (#29458555)

I tried Moblin on an Intel Aspire One D250 and on an Asus 701 4G with 1GB RAM upg. recently and it was a superfail. Just visiting the built-in applications would cause crashes and you'd have to reboot before they would work again. It's amazing how intel has managed to make the stuff horribly reliable on their own chips, when the systems it's based on work just fine on these machines.

If they can bring Moblin around to the point where it doesn't crap all over itself constantly I'm interested. It has a really nice interface. It's ungodly slow on intel graphics chips, though...

With that said, I'm running Windows 7 Enterprise on my lt3103u and could not be happier, except for compatibility problems. I hope Microsoft can iron them out. Dungeon Siege doesn't work, that's pretty sad considering it's a Microsoft-distributed game. I know that if I were Microsoft I would demand that games I will distribute call my APIs properly so that they will work on the next edition of my OS. Civilization 2 Gold doesn't work either, but at least it doesn't require a 3D accelerator and so I may be able to play it in XP Mode. If I can't, then the value of running Windows is diminished; backwards compatibility is a loss, so I might as well run Linux on the metal and run Windows inside of VirtualBox or VMware where I will have at least cursory 3D support.

If I do end up back on Linux, though, it'll be Ubuntu Karmic x64, which I know supports all but my wifi without so much as a repo change (drivers are available in backports or something.) It's not going to be moblin, which Intel has taken some pains to alter to not work well on anything but their chips. It's unfortunate that, in their incompetence, they made it not work well on theirs either. Oh yeah, the interface doesn't fit on the screen of my EEE 701 either. You'd think that an OS for netbooks would work on small screens. Maybe that's fixed now, though. I know they don't actually care about you if you don't have an Atom chip, which just makes me more miffed at Intel... Since I put XP back on the Atom-based system I've got, and gave it to my Lady to replace her stupid failing Dell Vostro 1500. Hmm, that's a Centrino system, too... IntelFAIL

Re:NOT READY, DO NOT WANT (1)

mlund (1096699) | about 5 years ago | (#29460835)

I tried Moblin on an Intel Aspire One D250 and on an Asus 701 4G with 1GB RAM

People still write code for the 7" Asus model? I mean, I own one but I didn't even bother trying to shove UNR on the thing. I really wouldn't expect much support for 2-year old models that support less than a 8.9" screen.

Re:NOT READY, DO NOT WANT (2, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 5 years ago | (#29460927)

We're talking about a 900 MHz coppermine celeron here, it is plenty fast for the kinds of machines commonly available in a handheld. Intel made it, two years is really not that long, they should not crap on it. But seriously, it ran like shit on the Aspire One D250.

Re:NOT READY, DO NOT WANT (3, Informative)

jawtheshark (198669) | about 5 years ago | (#29463385)

I own a 701 too and it is indeed plenty fast. The thing is, that CPU isn't two years old as you claim. It's from 2001 [wikipedia.org] . So, two years ago, it was already 6 years old. It is also Asus who chose the chip and not Intel.

Anyway, that's not my point. I don't think "mlund" was criticizing anything about the CPU. He was most certainly talking about the screen size and only that. As an 701 owner, I must agree with him: it's really too small and pretty much all other netbooks came with 1024x600 resolution which at least is close to 1024x768 form days yonder. 800x480 is really limited. It is usable with a Window Manager like LXDE [lxde.org] but you need to tweak applications left and right (Less "To" fields in the Thunderbird compose window, for example). Personally, I think that the Asus 900 series would have been the better choice for me, but I just couldn't wait and had to have my toy.

(I still use my Asus EEE 701 pretty much everyday.... Runs Debian just fine... Application statup times are a bit high, but I guess that's the SSD)

Re:NOT READY, DO NOT WANT (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 5 years ago | (#29464809)

I own a 701 too and it is indeed plenty fast. The thing is, that CPU isn't two years old as you claim. It's from 2001. So, two years ago, it was already 6 years old. It is also Asus who chose the chip and not Intel.

Asus, Intel and Microsoft chose the chip and the OS together.

He was most certainly talking about the screen size and only that. As an 701 owner, I must agree with him: it's really too small and pretty much all other netbooks came with 1024x600 resolution which at least is close to 1024x768 form days yonder. 800x480 is really limited.

This is because of gross incompetence in UI design. Most Windows applications are usable at 640x480 — not all of them, but most. By contrast, most Linux applications are unusable with less than 800x600. Often a dialog won't appear fully on-screen until you have 768 lines, like Handbrake (an epic failure in UI design.)

There is no excuse for settings dialogs that won't appear on small monitors. None. If you can't fit your interface on a VGA res screen, let alone WVGA, then you are an incompetent bastard who is putting too much in one window.

Re:NOT READY, DO NOT WANT (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | about 5 years ago | (#29468909)

Asus, Intel and Microsoft chose the chip and the OS together.

Microsoft?!? How so? The 701 was the one that came with Linux. I used the stock distro for a very very long time. I needed to switch because Asus can't maintain a repository if their life depended on it.

Now Intel, may or may not been involved in the design process... It doesn't have to be. I think Intel was caught as much by surprise as Asus by the success of the platform.

Most Windows applications are usable at 640x480 â" not all of them, but most.

Not my experience... I have been a developer over years and when I started working 800x600 was still very common and many apps already overflowed.

By contrast, most Linux applications are unusable with less than 800x600.

Not contradicting you there.... It hugely depends on the window manager. The typical ones (KDE, GNome) both overuse window decorations [1]. However, the sober ones like WindowMaker, XFCE or LXDE all do away with that... Do note that the standard 701 interface (The modified Xandros distro) was perfect for the small size.

Apart from that, there is the Alt-Drag trick that is a great workaround, which you don't have on Windows (without 3rd party support). That this is bad UI design, is true.... Then again, I have been a developer for years and users typically want all information on one and the same screen and that screen must be 640x480. An unreachable goal.

let alone WVGA, then you are an incompetent bastard who is putting too much in one window.

Yes... but users won't let us... Believe me, I have gone into this battle many times and always lost.

[1] Compare also Windows XP Luna Theme with the "Classic" theme and see which one wastes more space. Sure, rounded corners and big buttons may look nice... They are not space efficient.

Re:NOT READY, DO NOT WANT (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 5 years ago | (#29475727)

Microsoft?!? How so?

You can bet that this system was going to be offered with XP, but "something happened". The 4GB model is more than large enough to handle it. Even the 2GB would have room for XPe and some apps.

Now Intel, may or may not been involved in the design process... It doesn't have to be.

They pretty much do; The 701 is a sort of triumph of stuffing intel chips in small packages. You don't do a design that deviates so far from the reference design without some guidance. ASUS has been doing this stuff for a long time... with intel.

It hugely depends on the window manager.

I'm using Jolicloud which like UNR uses some daemon to strip the decorations off too-large windows. Lots of them still won't fit, of course.

Yes... but users won't let us... Believe me, I have gone into this battle many times and always lost.

I've got lots of apps that work fine at 640x480. This is great when video has failed and you're trapped in VGA mode. Tabbed dialogs have really made this EASIER than it used to be in the past.

Re:NOT READY, DO NOT WANT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#29464703)

Moblin requires SSSE3 support and hw accelerated graphics, this has been fairly clearly stated usually accompanied with the english translation "use Atom or Core 2" so I'm not sure why you expected it to work on 701... until I noticed your comment "It's ungodly slow on intel graphics chips, though...", "Oh yeah, the interface doesn't fit on the screen of my EEE 701": That makes me think that you are testing on unsupported, non-accelerated hardware. I can tell you the UI is definitely not slow on supported hardware.

Regarding the Aspire One, I know for a fact that Intel QA tests with that hardware but they just can't test on every model... Go ahead and file a bug (I can't see anything resembling your problem in bugzilla).

It's not going to be moblin, which Intel has taken some pains to alter to not work well on anything but their chips.

The reliance on SSSE3 and accelerated graphics may be convenient for Intel business interests but also has sound technical reasons. I'd say you are either talking about things you don't understand or trolling.

Nice looking Crippleware (1)

BrendaEM (871664) | about 5 years ago | (#29467543)

It looks nice, but I question the value of lowing a netbook's capability to toat of a smartphone/pda.

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