Supermarket Bans Jedi Knight 169
The employees at Tesco seem to be immune to mind tricks, and have kicked out the founder of the International Church of Jediism. Daniel Jones, 23, who founded the religion based on the Star Wars movies, was asked to leave because his robes were against store rules which forbid the wearing of 'hoodies' in their premises. "I told them it was a requirement of my religion but they just sniggered and ordered me to leave," he told The Daily Telegraph newspaper. "I walked past a Muslim lady in a veil. Surely the same rules should apply to everyone." It's exactly this kind of stuff that turns young Jedis to the dark side.
Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
They ban hoodies?
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The reason is young people use them to obscure there identity while causing trouble. Try going into a bank, post office or petrol station wearing a full face crash helmet. You get the same reaction for the same reason.
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I guess this is a UK thing - I routinely walk into the bank wearing a cap and sunglasses without ever removing either. *shrug*
I guess the store is within their rights, but it still sounds kinda dumb to assume that because someone is wearing a hood they're going to cause trouble.
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"I routinely walk into the bank wearing a cap and sunglasses without ever removing either."
That's so sissy. Now, if you said that you routinely walk into a bank wearing a sidearm, I'd be moderately impressed.
Before you ask, no, it isn't exactly "routine" for me to do so, but, from time to time, I've done so. The receptionist is generally more attentive, as is the guard - but hey, I deserve the respect.
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That's so sissy. Now, if you said that you routinely walk into a bank wearing a sidearm, I'd be moderately impressed.
Before you ask, no, it isn't exactly "routine" for me to do so, but, from time to time, I've done so. The receptionist is generally more attentive, as is the guard - but hey, I deserve the respect.
I don't do it to be "tough." I do it because that's what I was wearing outside (on a sunny day, natch) and I'm not going to be in the bank long enough to bother taking them off.
If I were trying to be macho, I'd be upset that you aren't impressed. As it stands, I don't really give a shit.
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I wear blue jeans, boots, and a T-shirt or polo shirt when it's hot, or a denim shirt when it cooler. No uniform. To answer your "unasked" question, I'm not a bank guard, a cop, or Brink's employee, or anything of the nature. ;^)
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I told my bank to go fuck off when I was asked to remove my glasses/hat. Seeing as how I regularly keep $5,000+ in the bank(and was there to deposit another $1,000), they should learn to make some exceptions..like maybe looking for guns or other suspicious activity..
Like wearing sunglasses and a hat, while potentially casing the bank for a possible robbery?
Why exactly were you trying to obscure your face from the cashier? And didn't your objection to a pretty rational request make you look even more suspicious.. What exactly were you trying to do? Or am I being too suspicious?
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Just so you know, to a bank, $5000 is nothing.
Or if it isn't "nothing" then you have bigger problems to worry about than the dress code.
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Banks here also try to ban hats, sunglasses and using cellphones in their premises... Yet they rarely kick you out if you don't comply (they still want your money, I guess)
Their strategy is to try to annoy you into compliance
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Could you go in with your face bandaged beyond recognition, though? They wouldn't be able to ask you to take those off.
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Definitely true. I'm sitting in my office right now wearing my hoodie that has my karate organization's logo clearly printed on the back. A definite sign of aggression.
Science!
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Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
Actually most stores in this area (Virginia) ban the wearing of any hood/head concealing garment while in the premises. It goes along with them banning scarves/baklavas/3 hole head covering masks/cotton hats/ski-masks/etc that hide the face and or other discernible personal features. Especially places like 711 and gas stations.
I can see both sides of the argument, but why not just allow them in if they drop the hood? that's usually the way it works. stores don't have a problem with a hooded jacket, as long as the hood is not in use while in the store (you can carry a ski-mask with you too if you want, as long as you don't put it on, no one can say anything, just put it back up/on when you leave.
Really I think stories like this do a lot more harm than good for their cause. Sure they think they've been caused an injustice, but most of the time it's better for both parties if you just go along with it. Not that I don't think oppression is wrong, but trying to make a ruckus by going against a policy like this is just stupid. It's not like anything is going to happen by taking the hood down for a few minutes while you shop. And if you don't like it, just go somewhere else, no harm no foul. I tell people to take their shoes off when they come in my house, if they don't want to, they can sit on the deck, thems the rules.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Funny)
Actually most stores in this area (Virginia) ban the wearing of any hood/head concealing garment while in the premises. It goes along with them banning scarves/baklavas/3 hole head covering masks/cotton hats/ski-masks/etc
What do they have against delicious pastries?
Re:Why? (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Not quite the same. Most store security cameras are located at head height or higher, making the faces of people wearing hoodies nearly invisible. I don't know about the UK, but in the US, the courts are over-worked enough that the police are likely to drop any shoplifting case unless there is solid evidence that the person they have in custody actually tried to steal something. Anyone caught shoplifting in a store wearing a hoodie is unlikely to be prosecuted, unless they did it right in front of a security guard, so banning them is an understandable move.
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Not quite the same. Most store security cameras are located at head height or higher, making the faces of people wearing hoodies nearly invisible. I don't know about the UK, but in the US, the courts are over-worked enough that the police are likely to drop any shoplifting case unless there is solid evidence that the person they have in custody actually tried to steal something. Anyone caught shoplifting in a store wearing a hoodie is unlikely to be prosecuted, unless they did it right in front of a security guard, so banning them is an understandable move.
I'm going to have to completely disagree, considering they are a major RETAILER OF HOODIES!
http://www.clothingattesco.com/mens/jackets.html [clothingattesco.com]
More on Tesco's perfectly "understandable" position: "Tesco has defended itself against accusations of hypocrisy after a security guard told a six-year-old boy to remove his hooded top that had been bought in the supermarket."
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Which brings up a very good point... If the store owners weigh the loss of the customers versus the potential loss from theft they may have decided it was worthwhile. It makes me wonder though -- we have so many retailers and companies that are evil in some fashion, yet people still do business with them. If we really started voting with our euros or dollars then we could very swiftly change the behaviour of these companies.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoodies#United_Kingdom [wikipedia.org]
We all know that if... (Score:5, Insightful)
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The Church of Maradona [wikipedia.org] would probably just taunt them with a reminder of Argentina's victory over England in Mexico 1986
You know, the game with the "Hand of God"?
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The OP says that Scientology is based on a book of fiction and gets modded Insightful but when someone points out that this is the case for all religions he gets modded troll?
Maybe it's the claim that Jesus was a carpenter! What's wrong with being a carpenter?
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Christianity is not based on carpentry. Or is it?
I don't know for sure but a lot of those wooden crosses are quite intricately carved.
Re:We all know that if... (Score:5, Insightful)
(BTW, the correct spelling is 'Haruhiism'. Blaspheme like that again and we'll have you killed.)
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Naturally, the SOS Brigade totally supports that policy.
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You forgot the Klingon religion from Star Trek or Shatnerism or even Vulcanism/Spockism.
Why do the Star Wars religions get all of the press but not the Star Trek religions?
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He should sue anyway. I certainly would, were I in his position. There's absolutely no excuse for allowing adherents of an arbitrary ideology to wear a mask, while forbidding everyone else from doing the same thing.
We had a similar kerfuffle here a while back, when exceptions to the no-weapons-in-schools rules were made so that Sikh students could bring their "ceremonial daggers" to school. If I had still been a student at the time, I would have bought the biggest damn knife I could find, strapped it to
Jedi religion (Score:2, Interesting)
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I know you can answer Jedi on a census in some countries apparently the UK is one of them [wikipedia.org], but I don't know if it is given all of the recognition of other religions. It could I suppose if the wikipedia numbers are accurate than that would count in many countries. Otherwise if it has such protections than this company has probably just ran afoul of the law and this young Jedi will be getting some cash out of it.
Possibly because it's directly derived from a science fiction movie who's practitioners have telekinetic powers? I'm not saying it's right, but I have just as hard a time taking Scientology seriously too so I guess it comes with the territory. Still though, I don't understand the UK link I guess, but where I grew up (Ohio. Yay... /montypython) hoodies are just comfortable and warm.
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Technically, you are wrong.
L. Ron Hubbard's science fiction books, and the Star Wars universe, were written and marketed as science fiction from day one. Neither the Bible nor the Q'uran were marketed or written as science fiction, much less "fiction" of any kind. Deliberately misrepresenting the facts doesn't make your arguments against religion any stronger, they only make you look like a jerk.
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the Star Wars universe, were written and marketed as science fiction from day one.
Screw you, asshole! How dare you insult my religion? Every Jedi knows that the Star Wars movies were a re-telling of our ancient code. The Prophet Lucas simply popularized a belief system which has existed for eons! You know that part about a "long long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away"? WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED???
What's next: are you going to try and tell me that Christianity is a false religion just because Mel Gibson created "The Passion of the Christ"?
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Deliberately misrepresenting the facts doesn't make your arguments against religion any stronger, they only make you look like a jerk.
Hear that wooshing sound? It's the joke flying over your head.
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Why should any one religion be treated in such a way? They are all made up and devoid of absolute truth so how could one have more or less "authority" than another on principle? Faith is not truth nor is it a means to discover the truth. So if you dump on one religion you should dump on all of them.
Faith is a device of self-delusion, a sleight of hand done with words and emotions founded on any irrational notion that can be dreamed up. Faith is the attempt to coerce truth to surrender to whim. In simple ter
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Discrimination (Score:2, Insightful)
"Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda and Luke Skywalker all appeared hoodless without ever going over to the Dark Side and we are only aware of the Emperor as one who never removed his hood.
was said instead as "Many muslim women have appeared Burqa-less, so why can't she?" they would get the pants sued off them.
"If Jedi walk around our stores with their hoods on, they'll miss lots of special offers."
What is more if they said: "If women walk around our store with their burqas on, they'll miss lots of special offers", i'm pretty sure there would be out
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Whoa, I know this is a UK story and all, do you all have to register religions over there? What criteria are there? In the states, I know that individual priests have to register with the state for certain perks (such as the right to perform marriage ceremonies, and if you want that lovely tax break), but I don't think that the religion itself has to be "registered". I may be wrong on that point, but it seems pretty wierd to me as a USian, that a religion has to register to be considered legit, especiall
Re:Discrimination (Score:4, Informative)
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Remember:
Cult = Tens or hundreds "crazy" people who believe in some god
Religion = Thousands of "upstanding" people who believe in some god
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If another religion already has the right to wear hoods in their store everybody regardless of their religious views should have the same rights.
Discrimination against a religion means that you are making special rules against a religion. Once you've established that you are OK with people wearing hoods you shouldn't need to be in a religion to have that right.
If a store doesn't allow people to wear roller skates in their store, then no matter what y
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This must be some fundamentalist Jedi Orthodox sect. I see nothing in the Holy Films that says Jedi must follow a dress code. The robes appear to be a fashion statement, or perhaps a uniform in the same manner as a priest's collar. Hoods are quite obviously optional, as even the most devout Jedi frequently appear without them.
So no, it's not religious discrimination, even if you grant that "Jedi" is a religion. If I were to run around shirtless for religious reasons (and just where in the Bible does it ev
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Sigh. He's not claiming to be an actual jedi. He's claiming to be the creator of jediism. A religion based on a popular sci fi movie franchise. Not a religion actually depicted within that franchise. Who's to say it's any more ridiculous than, say, a religion based on a prophet who read the sacred text off of secret gold tablets from inside a hat?
You're talking about faith here. It only matters that someone believes it and that their belief carries with it a costume of devotion. Christ didn't wear a
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Ok. Now read the two paragraphs after the joke. If they're part of some larger joke, then I'm very confused, indeed.
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Who decides who's religion is nonsense? Hey I'm with you I'd love to run around destroying all the religions I don't agree with but then isn't that what the Nazi's did?
If he's registered as a religion he has just as much as a right to sue as the muslim teen that sued Abercrombie for not letting her wear her [msn.com]
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No lawsuit. Why bother suing when the store has already been burned to the ground and the manager and assistant manager killed? The latter is a much more effective deterrent than the former, and much more likely. Just ask the Dutch(?) newspapers.
Sortof like the response yesterday to the farmer in Backwater, Nowhere, who was holding up the construction of a microwave tower. Instead of
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I KNEW it! ^^
Gentlemen, you've just helped me prove your own failure. Thank you very much. :D
Hmmmm..... (Score:2, Insightful)
Money... (Score:3, Insightful)
You should try asking them for money, otherwise you'll never be recognized as a legitimate religion.
Re:Money... (Score:4, Funny)
Yes I'm sure this person hasn't spent a dime (Score:1)
...on star wars stuff in his life
Rules for all (Score:4, Insightful)
Dude seems wise beyond his years. The same rules should apply to everyone regardless of religion. Chances are no matter what you believe, there is someone out there that views it as a ridiculous fairytale.
Re:Rules for all (Score:4, Informative)
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You try that, considering there are no laws against not believing in something (and openly stating it, at least here in the US, I hear there are laws against denying the holocaust in some parts of Europe) there's no grounds for a suit, so Pancake's point still stands.
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Mind tricks (Score:2, Funny)
The employees at Tesco seem to be immune to mind tricks,
Well, duh. No mind, no tricks. ^^
His problem is that he is white (Score:1)
Discrimination laws only seem to be applicable to "minorities" (in quotes because they aren't always really in the minority). If you are a white guy of European ancestry with your own church then you are pretty much on your own because you don't have lobbyist groups and mouthpieces on CNN fighting for your cause. Noone is looking out for you. Equality is only for groups who can get on the news. Now, given that this is news, this guy might actually effect some change in the policies of this particular su
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Should Enlist Mace Windu (Score:1)
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Paper? Plastic? (Score:2, Funny)
From the article... (Score:2)
A Tesco spokesman said: "Jedi are very welcome to shop in our stores although we would ask them to remove their hoods. If Jedi walk around our stores with their hoods on, they'll miss lots of special offers."
See? The employees were simply trying to help him save money. This was all blown way out of proportion. </sarcasm>
The store clerk is an idiot! (Score:2)
He should realize that scofflaws believe that hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for good blaster at your side.
If he were a trouble causing hoodie wearer, he'd have a gun, not a light saber!
Here goes nothing (Score:2)
I know I'm going to get modded into oblivion for this but here goes anyway...
This is a fake religion. It's like members of the Church of the Subgenius, or the Church of the Matrix (god forbid) crying foul for discrimination. Do these "Jedi" believe in God, a supernatural entity, or some other higher power? Sounds like it, but believing in a god does not a religion make. The accoutrements of their "religion" are straight out of the Star Wars franchise, and it's not too difficult to see why this store isn't b
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"This is a fake religion."
Uh-huh. Where does one start. Perhaps when you began your statement with the words "fake" and "religion". I'm not going to go further, because it would be cruel. As in shooting fish in a barrel sort of cruel.
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You say to call you in a couple of hundred years; why do you in particular get to pick an arbitrary date? As for what is and isn't a cult, this is a word with a broad, varied definition. Generally people define cults as a small religion which violates the moral or legal strictures of the society within which it resides, but historically all it means is small rel
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So you admit that those /.ers who are calling all religions "science fiction" are not being rational. Thanks.
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They're no more amenable to rational discussion than my great uncles drunken visions of a big purple dinosaur. No-one can disprove this dinosaur that appears only to him, but it doesn't mean that we show him any particular deference because of it.
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At that point we consider it immoral and illegal, and his new-found religion rapidly gains cult status (unless he has access to vast quantities of oil, but again, let's not go there). Or, even if he simply started making claims that are provably false, we can rationally demolish those.
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I don't know how to read this statement. We weren't talking about "real". You made a comment about the impossibility of rationally determining the truth of religion, and I pointed out that there were a significant number of posts/posters here making the outright claim that all religions are science fiction.
I think those people are real, I just think they are demonstrating the same kind of irrational behaviour they accuse religious believers of. If they think religi
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I'm picturing Gene Ray as the president of the united states ... and I really can't decide whether anyone would notice the difference ...
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Show me a "real" religion that does not start indoctrinating at a young age?
"They've gained religious status as an organized religion through intimidation and litigation, but having a shit load of money doesn't make them any less of a cult."
Just wind the clock back about 500-600 years and replace "Scie
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Show me a "real" religion that does not start indoctrinating at a young age?
LDS. Do they teach their kids the ways of the church? Yes. Have I ever encountered a group of religious adherents that do it so openly and without coercion? No.
Just wind the clock back about 500-600 years and replace "Scientology" with "Catholic Church"...
Here Here. Although I'd argue that 500 years ago the catholic church was less a cult than a form of government.
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Just because coercion is subtle doesn't mean it's not coercion. For the other side of the story, check out http://www.exmormon.org/ [exmormon.org]. Of course, active LDS folks will take one look at it, call it "anti-Mormon" and decide they don't have to pay any attention to it. But there are lots of stories there about the pain that the LDS church can and does i
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Of course it's a fake religion. All religions are fake.c
Not fake in that context. Do you really think that all christians believe Jesus was the son of God? I think they do. In fact, I know they do based on a lifetime of observation. The same theme (sans the Jesus) goes for jews, muslims, later day saints, and hindus. That said, my guess is that most "Jedi" are just keen on the genre. They're using George Lucas' second-hand plot to give them a sense of belonging, not meaning. That's what I meant by "fake." I
Mitocloridian count (Score:1)
Why doesn't he just present proof of his mitocloridian count?
Please correct the article title. (Score:2)
The leader of the Jedi is no mere Knight.
TESCO Questions their Jedi Powers (Score:2)
Jediism, a.k.a. $CIENTOLOGY..... (Score:2)
Jediism is no more a religion than $cientology.
It's a religion based around marekting, money, publicity, money, movies, and money.
This asshat is a nut. Plain and simple. If Jediism is a religion, then any clown can start a 'religion'. Someone who just likes to make other peoples' lives harder can start a 'religion' and just use it so they can invoke 'religious discrimination' whenever they encounter someone who isn't stupid enough to fall for the ploy.
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And you may claim that it's all commercial nonsense, but some of them are actually fairly committed to living by a clear ethics code [thejediismway.org] that's alright in my book.
Re:Jediism, a.k.a. $CIENTOLOGY..... (Score:4, Insightful)
BINGO! DING DING DING! Give the man a cigar!
Nut #1 [wikipedia.org]
Nut #2 [wikipedia.org]
Nut #3 [wikipedia.org]
Nut #4 [wikipedia.org]
Need I keep going?
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Shit, that should have been "Clown" number 1 through 4. My bad. You just had me so excited with your insightful comment that I failed to proofread properly.
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What kind of cigar did I win?
I can pay postage and shipping.
Prefer Cuban. Dominican or Jamacian will also do.
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I said give the man a cigar, not "I'll give the man a cigar". Nice try though :) If I had any on hand, I might even send you one, but I haven't even had a good cigar myself for ages. And now you've got me craving one ...
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"And now you've got me craving one ..."
-My work here is done.....
Sorry..... :)
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Ok, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make fun of your boyfriend. You're right - there was nothing crazy about him telling people to eat his body and drink his blood. That's a perfectly normal thing to do. Of course, you probably prefer guzzling his other bodily fluids, and that's fine too. To each their own, live and let live I always say.
JUst wait! (Score:2)
Til this movie comes out:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/themenwhostareatgoats/ [apple.com]
It wasn't about the damned hood (Score:2)
Perhaps none of you have ever had the, um, "joy" of working in mass retail, but there's an entire class of rule that covers this: "shit we kmake up on the spot to kick people out who we find creepy, annoying, stupid, or otherwise undesirable." It's a shitty, asinine thing to do, and that's why management loves it. You basically find some halfway plausible reason to say "get out" and then stick to it no matter what anybody says or does.
My guess is that they couldn't have cared less about the hood, and that t
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To be fair, they don't worship Star Wars, they follow the principles embodied in the Jedi code. Which is a stew of ideas stemming from a variety of real religions/moral codes, including Animism, Buddhism, Taoism, and Chivalry.
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Unfortunately.
Missing option (Score:2)
Baha'i