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Canadian Minister Lies On Net Surveillance Claims

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the pants-on-fire dept.

Government 155

An anonymous reader writes "As we discussed last month, the Canadian government has introduced Internet surveillance legislation that requires ISPs to disclose customer information without a warrant. Peter Van Loan, the Minister in charge, claims that a Vancouver kidnapping earlier this year shows the need for these powers. Michael Geist did some digging and revealed this as a lie — the Vancouver police acknowledge that the case did not involve an ISP request and the suspect is now in custody."

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155 comments

Lessons from the Bush Administration. (0, Troll)

conureman (748753) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630463)

Who got it from the Hitler Administration.

Re:Lessons from the Bush Administration. (2, Insightful)

Philip K Dickhead (906971) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630475)

What, lying on surveillance claims?

What should he lie on? Is it more comfortable than a latex-based memory-foam?

Re:Lessons from the Bush Administration. (5, Informative)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630551)

9/11 was America's Reichstag fire. [wikipedia.org]

More than one Reichstag fire, USDA does this alot (0, Troll)

NRAdude (166969) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631621)

Just look at all the crap family farms go through, and there hasn't been any devastating incident connected to Mad Cow, Bird Flue, Swine Flue, or pox yet the USDA paves the way for all those Biotech and Pharmaceutical companies to make an a$$load of money off compulsory innoculation that infects people no different than if they just contracted the disease out in the wild. The compounds in every vaccine has done more to sterile reproductive functions of Americans, cause auto-immune disorders that destroy nerve tissue from body to brain, cause food allergies, and outright destroy the Immune System (allowing worse diseases than the one's allegedly supposed to prevent) no different than how another government-created disease AIDS has destroyed Africa.

Re:Lessons from the Bush Administration. (0, Troll)

Foobar of Borg (690622) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630585)

Troll??? More like truth. For the right-wing Bush-lover who modded him troll, try to look up the connection between the Bush family and the Hitler regime during WWII. In other news, apparently the Soviets didn't really find Hitler's body at his bunker [news.com.au].

Canads's Reich Wing government ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29630913)

The last name of the minister's boss is Harper.

Hitler :: Harper

You do the math.

Stalin and Hitler planned that all along. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29631537)

Hitler, a jew just like Stalin, feigned his death and went with several prominent national socialists (aka "nazi") to live out their lives around Brazil, Venezuela, and a number of other countries neighboring those. Meanwhile, the less-prominent nazi scientists were imported through Department of Agriculture if not U.S. Army and NASA through Project Paperclip to CONTINUE research if only to disclose the atrocities committed upon non-Germanic prisoners of war and civilians.

You'll find out that every 2-party system is a joke, because mere idealogical opponents and best-friends when behind the curtain. In the case of World War 2, the alleged defamations against jews was done by a jew known as Alois Michelgruber who renamed to Adolph Hitler to confuse the press. Even Joseph Stalin is a made-up name chosen by a jew to conceal his identity.

A fellow over on Pennsylvania soil, Eric-John, wrote a book and sells only 200 of them every 4 years, titled "Vatican Assassins" and he's done all the research to show where all the jewry comes from. Hardcover version costs too much (US 300) so I pirated the digital version.

Mods on Crack2day. Got your back. Sources here. (0)

NRAdude (166969) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632419)

Nazi importation through Project Paperclip disclosure: Lab 257, Hotzone, author Mike Carroll. Here's the Amazon page for Lab 257. [amazon.com]

Documenting the aliases and secret associations of wicked societies, "Vatican Assassins" by Eric J. Phelps, VaticanAssassins.org [vaticanassassins.org], SprituallySmart.com is offline so here's Google Cache [74.125.155.132]

Re:Lessons from the Bush Administration. (1)

MarkvW (1037596) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631979)

More like the Hindenburg Administration, but that's another story.

STOP THE PRESSES! (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29630465)

A politician lied? Oh my God, this is the most unexpected thing in the history of the universe. Everybody! Stop whatever it is you're doing and pay attention to the one and only lying politician in the world!

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (1, Funny)

Jerry Rivers (881171) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630479)

Or perhaps he was simply misinformed or mistaken.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (5, Insightful)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630577)

Oh, come on. It's his JOB to know. The guy either lied or he's incompetent. Either way, fire the bum!

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (2, Informative)

compro01 (777531) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630705)

Distinctly unlikely. The guy got 3 times as many votes as the closest competition in the last election.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29631113)

I think it should work like this: If a politician does something wrong by incompetence, they get fired. If they do something wrong intentionally (ex lie) they get set on fire. Then fired. Then set on fire again. If the public servants feel they do not need to serve the public, we should off random high level malicious politicians to keep them on their toes. Those who take those jobs should do them selflessly or pay the piper.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (2, Insightful)

joocemann (1273720) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631273)

You don't fire politicians, you hang and eviscerate them. Ask the Italians.

Firing them would require a whole dismantling of systematic corporatism/cronyism along with a wait for them to finish their term in office. And we all know that doesn't work at all.

I'm still way too happy to feel the need to take it that far. I think we all are, which would be a good explanation as to why 'we the people' haven't done anything about the atrocities of government for a century or more. Wouldn't you agree? I don't see a stone in your hand, nor mine.

I honestly thought legislation about weapon controls would blow the 'revolution threshold' for NRA members... apparently they, too, are too happy to have cold dead hands.

Really think about it... how fucked are we? Not that bad... not bad at all, really.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (3, Insightful)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632265)

It's the same concept as trying to boil a live frog. If you just throw it in boiling water it will immediately jump out, foiling your attempt to boil it. If, however, you throw it in cool water and slowly heat it, the frog won't jump out. It will stay comfortable while it cooks, up until the point at which it is cooked enough that it dies.

Had legislatures simply dumped all the laws, restrictions, etc. that we have now on the founding generation, there would have been a major revolt. It would never work. But if you change just a few things a year, over the course of decades and centuries the population will tolerate quite a lot, because no one issue is big enough to fight for. Space them out a bit and the tolerance threshold is never reached.

One day we'll just wake up dead. ;)

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (4, Insightful)

Tx (96709) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630675)

Or perhaps he was simply misinformed or mistaken.

So you mean that rather than being a liar, he might just be ignorant and incompetent? It's the job of politicians to get their facts straight when formulating the laws of the land. Our politicians are always complaining that people don't trust them any more, and that young people are disillusioned with politics. Well perhaps if we could trust what they fecking said, then that wouldn't be the case. It doesn't matter one jot whether this guy flat out lied, or whether he somehow conveniently got his facts wrong, it's just yet another event to knock the credibility of politicians back into the gutter.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (1)

MSTCrow5429 (642744) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630971)

I don't think it's normally possible to not be ignorant and incompetent, and also be an elected politician. Most of them are still living in the Dark Ages, and think legislative fiat can change the laws of physics et al.

And yes, some of them do lie, but I've come to the conclusion most just aren't that bright to begin with.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (3, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631201)

Nobody is an expert on everything. That's a fact. Funny though that we kinda expect that from politicians.

He got asked about it and instead of giving the honest answer (i.e. "I dunno, but I'll ask my experts and come back to you") he made up some answer. Why? Because for some odd reason people expect politicians to have an answer for everything.

Personally I'd prefer a politician who just admits that he doesn't have an answer for everything but at least is honest. I'm just fed up with BS answers to the tune of "Get offa my back and just shut up".

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (5, Insightful)

RelaxedTension (914174) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631963)

He got asked about it and instead of giving the honest answer (i.e. "I dunno, but I'll ask my experts and come back to you") he made up some answer. Why? Because for some odd reason people expect politicians to have an answer for everything.

I gotta call bullshit on this one. As stated earlier, it's specifically his job to know this. He is writing a law that he knows will erode personal rights of privacy, and also knows the backlash that is possible. If he is not fully aware that he has "enhanced" the story, then he has no business writing the law in the first place.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (1)

lonecrow (931585) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632669)

He is offering evidence to warrant his claim. If the evidence is false his claim is not supported and should be tossed out unless better evidence is provided. So regardless of whether he knew the evidence was false or not his claim, and the law, should be discarded.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (4, Insightful)

shentino (1139071) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631219)

The problem with politicians is that they are people in a position where they can largely ignore the law.

I think anyone, no matter how honest he THINKS he is, will sooner or later succumb to tempation and abuse his power.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (3, Insightful)

value_added (719364) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631111)

It's the job of politicians to get their facts straight when formulating the laws of the land.

A noble sentiment for an ideal world.

In the real world, regrettably, democracies tend to have constitutents (known in the world of software development and systems administration as "lusers"), who expect their elected leaders to deliver. Shortsighted and selfish, to be sure, but that's another subject. The salient point is most don't care how they deliver or what the facts really are, so long as they get what they want.

As for the correctness of facts, it's the job of the press to inform us, which means checking the facts as stated and reporting accordingly. For whatever reason, the press isn't doing their job, and the responsibility has fallen to an enterprising University professor and his blog.

Both the politican the press should be taken to task for their failings, but kudos to Michael Geist for his efforts.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29632171)

In this changing world the all the eyes are upon you ... kudos to the internet, at least for politicians
I just hope they don't figure out how to manipulate this medium as well

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (1)

Jerry Rivers (881171) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632231)

"So you mean that rather than being a liar, he might just be ignorant and incompetent?"

Perhaps yes. He has NOTHING to gain from being a liar. Especially with a possible election looming.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (1)

Deltaspectre (796409) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630715)

Without reading anything else, it seems like it might be the case that he was thinking they could have apprehended the kidnapper even faster if this legislation had been in place. Not a lie, but definitely not a reason to put it in place either.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (3, Informative)

The Yuckinator (898499) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631169)

From TFS:

"...the Vancouver police acknowledge that the case did not involve an ISP request and the suspect is now in custody."

So no, there was no reason that any legislation like this would have sped up the apprehension of the kidnapper because they weren't looking to the ISP for evidence in the first place. Unfortunately that means YES, it was definitely a lie. Even if it's only from a position of ignorance, the MINISTER OF PUBLIC SAFETY better get his facts straight before spewing forth on any topic, let alone one that impacts every online citizen in the country.

It's almost unheard of for Canadian politicians to be removed from office outside of an election but I'd say if the PM wants to keep any sort of respectability, he will need to remove Mr Van Loan from cabinet first thing on Monday morning.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (3, Funny)

rueger (210566) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631605)

...but I'd say if the PM wants to keep any sort of respectability ...

Ah, you must be a recent immigrant to this country...

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (2, Interesting)

conureman (748753) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630883)

I've been looking at the top of the Google results for Peter Van Loan, and he seems to be the Canadian version of Don Rumsfeld. Honest mistake? YMMV.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (2, Interesting)

CokeBear (16811) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631387)

As a Canadian, I can assure you that he most certainly is the Canadian version of Don Rumsfeld. And the Prime Minister is our very own Dick Cheney. (He's not Bush, he's much smarter than that, which makes him all the more dangerous)

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29631409)

Oh please. You think the Liberals would do any better?

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29631549)

Yes, I do. And the Liberals aren't the only choice but they are the most likely of the rest

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29631737)

all of our choices are mediocre, but I think the liberals are more mediocre than the harper & crew so there you have it

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (1)

gwait (179005) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632037)

Harper appointed a creationist as science minister.

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/17/canadas-science-mini.html [boingboing.net]

Harper and gang are moronic G W Bush wannabees.

The Conservatives think it's ok to sue a teenager for $20,000.00 per song for "illegally" torrenting a song that costs 99 cents on itunes,
so that the big media broadcasters can stay rich. Anyone actually vote for that issue? No? Gee, I wonder why the politicians think Canadian parents who voted for them might like this in place?

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/3025/125/ [michaelgeist.ca]

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (1)

Jerry Rivers (881171) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632159)

Apparently most Canadians who care disagree with you, which is why the Liberals are currently trailing the Tories by 6% in the polls. Even the leftist NDP is currently siding with the Tories to prevent an unwanted election that the careless Liberals are trying to force.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (1)

Jerry Rivers (881171) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632197)

As another Canadian I can assure that some Canadians are just as biased and partisan as the worst Republicans masquerading as liberals. They do ANYTHING, call you any name, invoke the worst demons to try and persuade that they are somehow more righteous than all those Canadians don't agree with them.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (3, Insightful)

selven (1556643) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630597)

So if you do something bad, but do it a lot, it becomes normal and acceptable?

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (4, Insightful)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630603)

Yep, we should completely ignore it and let the lie stand unchallenged, so that a bad piece of legislation can become a law for the wrong reason.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632657)

Actually, that is exactly what GP wants. Because else he would have to stop complaining and staying in a pathetic state of deliberate inaction. And that would be just terrible. Doing something about is? Bah. Not with him. Ever!

I wonder how he would have performed in 1933 in Germany...

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632821)

Wow, the line an the end of the page is really fitting this time: "Shannon's Observation: Nothing is so frustrating as a bad situation that is beginning to improve."

Re:STOP THE PRESSES! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29630873)

The only thing this story proves is recall and referendum legislation is desperately needed. In fact we need to change the Canadian constitution to accomplish it.

Tory cabinet minister lies (1, Insightful)

jhylkema (545853) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630515)

And in a related story, the sun rose this morning, in the East specifically.

Of course it is a lie... (5, Insightful)

Foobar of Borg (690622) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630561)

Tyranny-loving politicians always try to scare the shit out of you to make it seem like they have no choice but to take your freedoms away. And it is always something horrible, like kidnapping or child rape. That way, if you don't give them what they want, then *you* must be responsible for their kidnapping/rape/death since you stood by and didn't let them do anything.

Re:Of course it is a lie... (4, Interesting)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630669)

Tyranny-loving politicians always try to scare the shit out of you to make it seem like they have no choice but to take your freedoms away. And it is always something horrible, like kidnapping or child rape. That way, if you don't give them what they want, then *you* must be responsible for their kidnapping/rape/death since you stood by and didn't let them do anything.

That's right - and we saw it again last week. Somehow it's OUR fault that Roman Polanski avoided justice all these decades. "We", the peons, don't "get it".

Fortunately, the power of the Internet [nationalpost.com] is able to route around the brain-damaged "celebrity types" who signed that stupid petition expressing outrage that a pedophile should actually be arrested [altfg.com]. counter-petition [breitbart.com]

Maybe we need to charge public officials with corruption or fraud when they try to lie so blatantly. "That statement is no longer operative" is just one more fuddle duddle.

Re:Of course it is a lie... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29630785)

Yes, he molested a child. Yes, he's a rapist.. But no, he's not a pedophile. He was absolutely convinced she was 17 (which is what the girl's mother told him (she should face charges too for effectively pimping her own daughter), which was the age of consent at the time in California.

SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... (1)

ChiRaven (800537) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631155)

And he never bothered to do something basic like check her drivers license or something? I don't ever TALK to young women under about 25 independently without checking ID's first, and I'm not even remotely interested in sleeping with them (or they with me, for that matter).

Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29631243)

I don't ever TALK to young women under about 25 independently without checking ID's first, and I'm not even remotely interested in sleeping with them (or they with me, for that matter).

Gee

Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... (3, Informative)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631347)

The poster who wrote that Polanski thought she was "old enough" was wrong - you can read the transcripts of the plea bargain at The Smoking Gun.
  1. Polanski admitted under oath during the plea bargain that he knew PRIOR to raping her that she was only 13. This was with his lawyers' advice and consent, and after being told by the judge what the legal implications were.
  2. The mother testified at the grand jury, also under oath, that she had told Polanski that her daughter was 13; she was surprised that Polanski wanted her to do some child modeling because photogs usually want models who are even younger.

So we have both the testmony from the perp, after waiving his right to avoid self-incrimination as part of the guilty plea bargain, and a second witness, that he knew she was 13. What more proof does ANYONE want?

Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... (1)

conureman (748753) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631719)

In the olden days, when I was 25 years old, I had a date with a girl I thought looked a bit young. Carl, the doorman at the Keystone Berkeley, was a friend of mine, so I asked him to check her ID when we got there (being with me would have probably gotten her in without a check otherwise). She was actually 25 so things worked out okay.

Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29631851)

Cool story, bro.

Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29632493)

I don't ever TALK to young women under about 25 independently without checking ID's first, and I'm not even remotely interested in sleeping with them (or they with me, for that matter).

Having conversations with people, of any age, isn't a crime. HTH

Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 13 ... (0, Troll)

aqk (844307) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632825)

Migod! You must really hold up the checkout lines at the local supermarket, or when you're buying a fatburger at McDough's.
But hey! It gives you extra time to ogle their boobs while they search for their ID...
Smart move, pudding-puller!

But do you do this also at your local Hooters? Com'n now- 'fess up! We have seen you there, "big boy" !
Thank goodness you don't "sleep" with them; neither do I. We have something better to do.

Re:Of course it is a lie... (3, Insightful)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631321)

He was absolutely convinced she was 17 (which is what the girl's mother told him

An out-and-out LIE. He admitted during the hearing for the plea bargain that he KNEW she was 13. The mother also testified under oath at the grand jury that she had told him she was 13, because she was surprised that he wanted a model that old - most kid models are younger.

He's a pedophile. Cunnilingus, vaginal, and anal sex, after doping her up. That's not just "a momentary weakness", as he's tried to argue. He was prescribed 150mg qualudes, but the one he gave her was 500mg, and he tried to dispose of another 500mg when he was arrested - probably part of his "date kit."

That his films aren't worth watching is just a bonus.

Re:Of course it is a lie... (1)

haruchai (17472) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632255)

Here's what Samantha Gailey's testimony says:

  That, a couple years before, she'd taken part of a Qaalude and that the pill Polanski had was a Rorer 714, broken into 3 pieces.

  http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskib2.html [thesmokinggun.com]
  http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskib3.html [thesmokinggun.com]

According to the scant info I can find, a Rorer 714 is a 300mg pill not 500mg as you claim and she only took part of one.

She admitted to having taking Qaaludes once before, and having being drunk before although this was the first time she taken alcohol and Qaaludes together.
He took severe advantage of her and I wonder what he was thinking since there were people who knew he was photograhing her.

The link below, a transcript of his plea hearing, says that he admitted to knowing she was 13, although it also says that, before answering,
he consulted twice with his lawyer.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0928091polanskiplea10.html [thesmokinggun.com]

However, looking at a picture that is supposed to be one of Samantha in 1977, I can't see how he could think she was 17 so he must have known.

Samantha's lawyer urged the judge to accept the plea: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0928091polanskiplea17.html [thesmokinggun.com]

France rejected the US request for an extradition back then but the States could also have requested he be tried in France. Apparently, this request was never made.

Roman is clearly and fault and he's never denied this but this would never have dragged on if the deal, with which he was complying, had been honored. Also, he's never been accused by anyone else so, pedophile or not, he's not a serial rapist and he was cleared by psychiatric evaluation ( hardly foolproof, I know ) of being a pathological sex offender.

So, if his (sole) victim has not only forgiven him but has been campaiging for 12 years to let the matter drop, what is the problem?
 

Re:Of course it is a lie... (1)

epine (68316) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632389)

This is somewhat OT, but I think Polansky came morally unglued Abu Ghraib style. He lived through more than one R-rated horror show, and somewhere along the way someone forgot to inform him about the greater moral code. I'm with Zimbardo about AG: most of the fault lies with those who created the environment. What Polansky did was done with enough deliberation that he certainly deserved some jail time, but not 100 years as the judge is reported to have commented. 100 years would be the appropriate sentence for his second offence. For the first offence: you've had a bit of a rough go, now stand up, take your punishment for your despicable conduct, and consider yourself informed.

While I was mildly underwhelmed by "The Pianist", I didn't consider it a bad movie. It was a worthy attempt that didn't quite make it. I didn't regret the time I spent watching it, nor did I take a lot away from it that hadn't been done as well or better in other films. I preferred the lead-up-to-the-war, Cabaret ethos of the first act to the silent, enduring protagonist. Don't know why, just prefer my protagonists mouthy. Like they hired a script writer, or something. Quest for Fire has a better script than half the subtitle-friendly movies made these days.

Responding to another post, it's a bit of stretch to compare Harper to Cheney. I was reading an op-ed the other day about how Obama's summer plunge in the polls was a traditional American populist backlash against an educated and intelligent president. Many Americans instinctively regard intelligence in a politician as a sure makings of a crook. It's possibly a good theory, but I didn't spot any evidence that W's speech impediment in any way slowed the damage.

Harper's not a dumb man, and I probably don't agree with much of his vision for Canada, but I don't think he aspires to the creation of a fascist state. He possesses a measure of the petty ideological corruption common in right-thinking politicians of any stripe. Not so different than the social delusions of Polansky or famous NHL quarterbacks: a little bit above, beyond, or outside the law. OTOH, the most naive political position of all is to think the greater electorate is going to reward a politician for doing a good job, so we get what we pay for.

Case in point: Canada, probably as much by luck as good management, had one of the few banking systems to emerge relatively unscathed from the credit crisis. Has any Canadian lined up to pay more taxes in exchange for this excellent governance? Fat chance. We'd be happier if they had lost $100b (that's Canadian for $1t) so we could pillory them as models of what we deplore. Despising politicians is a nation building experience.

I don't think it's the politicians who are so fond of the police state as those who finance their election. The fat cats feel vulnerable to a free society, as well they should. Many times politicians seem to be yanking away freedoms that we in fact never possessed. Since WWII the Americans have practiced de facto spying against their own citizens. In the W era (he didn't quite earn himself the knighthood WWIII), they endeavoured to ratify what they had always done. Not that it would be so much different, but a little more convenient, with fewer safeguards, (and a little less internal laundry passing through the British).

At some point fewer safeguards spells catastrophe, so on principle we should oppose everything. I knew I would say something !OT eventually.

Re:Of course it is a lie... (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631217)

I'd rather be responsible for the death of a single person than for the death of the liberty of everyone.

Re:Of course it is a lie... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29631359)

Actually, it's worse than that. They pass laws because that's their metric for success. They don't want to take your freedoms away, it's just a byproduct of them passing new laws which they feel required to do.

Impossible! (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630709)

People above the rank of "commoner" never lie. He must have been misquoted by the media, or, at worst, misspoken. Anybody who claims that he "lied" is only seeking to criminalize a legitimate policy dispute.

PVL (1)

conureman (748753) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630989)

Check out his webpage petervanloan.com He's an environmentalist! (He got funding for water meters) He's gotten funding for Recreation! (I think they're paving the parking lot) Yep, I better quit picking on this guy.

back-door downloader lawsuits for mafiaa. (2, Insightful)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630789)

Customer information without a warrant.. why does that sound familiar?

Re:back-door downloader lawsuits for mafiaa. (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630867)

If you thought the mafiaa was scary, just imagine what the government can do with this.

Power (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29630855)

Could it be he wants power for power's sake? Not to make the world better, but simply because he can.

Well, what do you know (1)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 4 years ago | (#29630967)

Michael Geist did some digging and revealed this as a lie...

Canada has a conservative government after all.

Re:Well, what do you know (4, Funny)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631003)

> Canada has a conservative government after all.

It must, because no liberal has ever told a lie in the entire history of the world (and, of course, everyone everywhere is either a liberal or a (spit) conservative. There are no other possibilities).

Re:Well, what do you know (1)

djmurdoch (306849) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631073)

> Canada has a conservative government after all.

It must, because no liberal has ever told a lie in the entire history of the world

There is other evidence that the government is conservative, we don't need to rely on the fact that they lie to know that.

Re:Well, what do you know (3, Interesting)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631223)

Most governments tend to lean "liberal" economically and "conservative" socially so authoritarian all around.

Re:Well, what do you know (1)

WoodenTable (1434059) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632533)

Except here in Canada, where most governments lean "liberal" socially, and... well, at the moment economic policy can only be described as "house on fire". To be perfectly honest, parliamentary debates might be improved a bit if firefighters would smash down the doors and haul everyone outside once in a while.

Re:Well, what do you know (1)

mevets (322601) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631117)

you misspelled shit; it is typically used with the prefix "little", as in "little shits". This is the semi-official moniker of a group of back-room schemers and front room puppets of the canadian neo-con group. It really is the "same old con" - transfer all the public assets to your buddies then sneak out the back door.

Their first major success was hoisting a notoriously drunken jerk to the position of Premier. There are lots of things said of politicians, but Canada does follow the British tradition of titling these people as "Right Honourable"; a reference to the greater responsibility they hold. Even the most prominent have been reduced to parroting the "little shits" press releases.

Van Loan has been associated with the "little shits" for quite some time.

Re:Well, what do you know (1)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631205)

It must, because no liberal has ever told a lie in the entire history of the world (and, of course, everyone everywhere is either a liberal or a (spit) conservative. There are no other possibilities).

Well, in Australia, the Liberals [wikipedia.org] _are_ the conservatives...

Re:Well, what do you know (2, Informative)

Adambomb (118938) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631297)

and, of course, everyone everywhere is either a liberal or a (spit) conservative

Note for those unaware: It's not just a random label thrown about in canada to polarize issues, the current government is headed by the Progressive Conservative party [conservative.ca]. And the current opposition are the Liberals [liberal.ca].

Re:Well, what do you know (1)

germansausage (682057) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631967)

And in British Columbia the Liberals are the conservatives. It's a bit complicated here, we are permitted to have more than 2 political parties.

Re:Well, what do you know (2, Informative)

jbr439 (214107) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632081)

Not quite: a few years ago, the Progessive Conservative Party merged with the Reform Party to form the Consersative Party.

Re:Well, what do you know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29632535)

Holy crap! I just checked those websites. Looks like bigger wankers than the republicans and the democrats.
We are SO fucked.

For Canadians (3, Informative)

beckett (27524) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631195)

put down the cardiac poutine and fire a few e-mails off, guys.

here are email links to Federal Minister for Public Safety Peter Van Loan [mailto] Opposition critics to : Federal Liberal Critic Mark Holland [mailto] Public Safety and National Security NDP Don Davies [mailto]

Re:For Canadians (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29632301)

although this probably has a grain of truth in the anonymous writers tale but to call the government statement a lie is totally an erroneous statement but smacks of political bias
and cowardly tendencies
Stan C

This will kill the conservatives (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29631227)

This kind of stupid crap will kill the conservatives. The Liberals, the NDP and the BLOC will get this killed. I GUARANTEE IT! They had better stop now. We are not going to put up with this crap! The Americans can be bitched like this, but not us. They claim to have power by owning a gun, but really the big corporations rule there. Here, no guns but the **AA will get a really rude hard slap if they try to pressure the politicians into this crap! If the conservatives have even half a clue, this should STOP NOW! Conservatives wanting this will find themselves in a minority opposition with one seat less than the NDP.

Internet Town Hall meeting Oct. 26 Halifax (5, Informative)

farbles (672915) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631419)

Concerns over this and other issues such as copyright laws, digital rights management issues, the Digital Divide, and privacy have prompted the Chebucto Community Net and the Dalhousie Student Union to hold a public Internet Town Hall meeting in Halifax, Nova Scotia on Monday, October 26th at 7 pm in the McInnes Room of the Dalhousie Student Union Building. I saw the notice on their website here: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Current/CourtesyCCN.shtml [chebucto.ns.ca]

Their main speaker is Laura Murray, co-author of Canadian Copyright: A Citizenâ(TM)s Guide, and they've got speakers on the other issues too. They're calling it "Who's Shaping Your Digital Future?" and it's noteworthy for being the only meeting of its kind in the Atlantic Provinces. I don't know why they're not promoting this better, maybe they don't have the money or something, but I know I'll be going to it.

I wonder if anyone from the government or the mainstream media will be showing up.

Re:Internet Town Hall meeting Oct. 26 Halifax (1)

farbles (672915) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631425)

Whoa, some crazy apostrophe action there. Sorry about that.

And this comes from Canada (1)

hackerman (1649305) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631595)

at least we third world countries have internet privacy. We had to have something better than you.

Re:And this comes from Canada (1)

herojig (1625143) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631871)

Interesting that. I was wondering about this the other day, why do "under developed" countries like Nepal have none of the problems discussed so much here on /.. Internet privacy is not an issue. Pedophilia is not an issue. Hmmm...

I'm Shocked, Shocked... (1)

jayveekay (735967) | more than 4 years ago | (#29631867)

To find out that someone thinks a politician lying is newsworthy.

Now a politician being open and honest about something, that would be news!

Re: 99.999% Lies from US Executive Office et al (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29632005)

Laughed my ares off at the sight of Obama [the symbol formerly known as Barry] failing in Denmark.

The IOC can see a fraud, and state that a fraud is a fraud, irrespective if the fraud is the sitting President of the United States of America [who never should have been born].

Canadian Conservatives (1)

ppanon (16583) | more than 4 years ago | (#29632847)

Our Canadian Conservatives - trying to add blue to the red and white. I never thought I would look back on the Mulroney years as the good old days.
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