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Early Look At EVE Creators' DUST 514

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the sequel-to-formula-409 dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 81

CCP Games, the developer behind space MMORPG EVE Online, made waves in August when they announced DUST 514, a console MMOFPS which will tie into the EVE universe. Eurogamer is now running a preview of the new MMO, providing more information on how it will work and the way in which it will interact with EVE and its players. Quoting: "... battles take place on dynamic battlefields about 5 kilometers across. Unlike EVE itself, there will be a cap to the number of players per battle — CCP is 'still playing with numbers' (and presumably watching the development of 256-player MAG with interest), but assures us that this will not be less than 64 players. There will be a command structure, with infantry and squadron leaders on each side led by a player-commander on board the hulking Mobile Command Center airship. The commander will effectively be playing a real-time strategy game with living units, and will have an RTS-style view of the battlefield. He'll be dependent on the situational awareness of infantry players to clear the fog of war. He'll also be the target, with the ultimate aim of a battle — after several, varying sub-objectives — being to destroy the opposing side's MCC."

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Obligitory Penny Arcade strip (2, Funny)

earnest murderer (888716) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633161)

It will be interesting to see if they do any better.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/7/17/ [penny-arcade.com]

Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency (-1, Troll)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633239)

Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger! If handled properly, your apeman will give years of valuable, if reluctant, service.

INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.
You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model. Field niggers work best in a serial configuration, i.e. chained together. Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it, and don't even think about taking that chain off, ever. Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them. This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud. House niggers work best as standalone units, but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape. At this stage, your nigger can also be given a name. Most owners use the same names over and over, since niggers become confused by too much data. Rufus, Rastus, Remus, Toby, Carslisle, Carlton, Hey-You!-Yes-you!, Yeller, Blackstar, and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger. If your nigger is a ho, it should be called Latrelle, L'Tanya, or Jemima. Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke. Pearl, Blossom, and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes. These names go straight over your nigger's head, by the way.

CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGER
Owing to a design error, your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords. Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - "muh dick" being the most popular. However, others make barking, yelping, yapping noises and appear to be in some pain, so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger's tongue. Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least, you won't hear it complaining anywhere near as much. Niggers have nothing interesting to say, anyway. Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons (yours, mine, and that of women, not the nigger's). This is strongly recommended, and frankly, it's a mystery why this is not done on the boat

HOUSING YOUR NIGGER.
Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars. Make sure, however, that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through. The rule of thumb is, four niggers per square yard of cage. So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers. You can site a nigger cage anywhere, even on soft ground. Don't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage. Niggers never invented the shovel before and they're not about to now. In any case, your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape. As long as the free food holds out, your nigger is living better than it did in Africa, so it will stay put. Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage, as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.

FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.
Your Nigger likes fried chicken, corn bread, and watermelon. You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly doesn't deserve it. Instead, feed it on porridge with salt, and creek water. Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields, other niggers, etc. Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat, but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day. Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer, since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives. He reports he doesn't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result. You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work, since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained. You would be surprised how long it

Re:Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency (-1, Offtopic)

Capsy (1644737) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633255)

Racist scum bag.

Re:Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29633295)

Wow. I'm flummoxed. A +3 karma account posting this tripe. Either they didn't check anonymous (racist bastard) or they need a stronger password (ugh).

HAHAHAHA!! (1)

religious freak (1005821) | more than 4 years ago | (#29636183)

So you're the idiot that posts this stuff? Maybe you'll be smart enough to remember to hit the 'anonymous' button next time, ass.

So really, what's your fucking point to posting this repeatedly? What's your point???

Re:Obligitory Penny Arcade strip (1)

Rakshasa Taisab (244699) | more than 4 years ago | (#29634077)

You get kicked out of your corp and relegated to fighting in Factional Warfare, which means no support from super-rich alliances.

Sounds like savage... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29633167)

Free game you can get from newerth.com

The problem with it is... You rely way way too much on your 'units' being effective instead of being useless annoying assholes.

Re:Sounds like savage... (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633607)

Like with any other online multiplayer game. Savage 2 had some learning curve, but I actually liked the game mechanics and there really wasn't any asshole players but everyone played nicely. New players of course, but people weren't harsh to them either. However the initial learning curve probably had something to do with it too, but its a fun game.

Re:Sounds like savage... (1)

eugene2k (1213062) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633687)

Savage 2 doesn't have vehicles. The penny arcade strip mostly mirrors the experience for pilots there. Though I'm inclined to think that the reason is actually unbalanced gameplay.

Re:Sounds like savage... (1)

eugene2k (1213062) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633689)

D'oh! I meant the experience for pilots in Battlefield 2.

Sounds familiar... (1)

Capsy (1644737) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633181)

Sounds kind of like C&C mixed with Battlefield:2142. This could be interesting, although, when directing people instead of bots, you have to take up a leadership role, which, quite frankly, is difficult for a lot of people. Guild/Clan leaders should be looking at this game to showcase their abilities. I foresee large scale clan battles in the future.

No more imagining... (2, Funny)

cjfs (1253208) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633209)

The commander will effectively be playing a real-time strategy game with living units, and will have an RTS-style view of the battlefield.

And I thought sending an endless line of marines to their death was fun before!

Enders game: The game (1, Insightful)

Umuri (897961) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633219)

I am really saddened that it's taken people this long to realize this was a KICK ASS Idea.

Disclaimer: Everything said below this runs under the assumption the game is made correctly. There are LOTS of ways they could mess this up, interface, command structure, how to reward playstyles, how the teaming is done, etc etc .

But IF they get this right, it will be a fantastic game. Some people love strategy, others love killing shit. Some people like both, but more often some people like one and hate the other. Lots of people love having some voice in the sky doing the thinking for them so they can focus on killing shit, as long as that voice helps them kill shit better.

This is demonstrated on a LOT of big multiplayer games with voice enabled, you end up getting 1-5 guys out of dozens who are barking out useful info, the rest feeding off them without much complaint. I think there are better system sthan the everyone can talk to everyone method, but it hink it's a good start.

Re:Enders game: The game (4, Informative)

bertok (226922) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633401)

I am really saddened that it's taken people this long to realize this was a KICK ASS Idea.

Disclaimer: Everything said below this runs under the assumption the game is made correctly. There are LOTS of ways they could mess this up, interface, command structure, how to reward playstyles, how the teaming is done, etc etc .

But IF they get this right, it will be a fantastic game. Some people love strategy, others love killing shit. Some people like both, but more often some people like one and hate the other. Lots of people love having some voice in the sky doing the thinking for them so they can focus on killing shit, as long as that voice helps them kill shit better.

This is demonstrated on a LOT of big multiplayer games with voice enabled, you end up getting 1-5 guys out of dozens who are barking out useful info, the rest feeding off them without much complaint. I think there are better system sthan the everyone can talk to everyone method, but it hink it's a good start.

This has been done before, the human side in Natural Selection [wikipedia.org] had this years ago. One guy on the team was a commander with an overhead RTS view, everyone else played as a standard FPS. The commander could drop items, place buildings (but the FPS players had to actually construct them), and give orders.

My experience was that if you had a good commander, the overall game was good. If you had a shit commander, which was often, then the game was pretty bad. The problem is the ratios. You can't have everyone being the commander. What often happened was that one guy was voted in to become the commander because he was good, but then nobody else got to practice the commander role, so it was very self-reinforcing. The first few times you play commander suck a lot, everyone swears at you while you try to figure out which button does what. A lot of people never really got to play the commander at all, because they'd be kicked from the role within seconds, so they never got any practice.

Re:Enders game: The game (2, Informative)

PPalmgren (1009823) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633437)

I played this game at the top tiers of league play, and I can tell you that it had of the most brutal learning curve of all FPSes I've ever played. It's the reason the game never caught on, it couldn't retain new players because pub strats were not logically linked to pro strats, causing stagnation.

The game style has a lot of potential. Hopefully this will be good, as well as Natural Selection 2 (coming soon), and widen our gaming horizons.

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

Troy (3118) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633453)

This was also done with , which is still under active development, though gameplay has many of the same issues as you pointed out in Natural Selection -- you needed a good commander. Additionally, you also need good teammates who will do what the commander asks (and doesn't). [freeallegiance.org]

Nothing is more frustrating (for a player and a commander) than to see a team disintegrate simply because half of the team wants run around and shoot things rather than work together to accomplish a goal.

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

Troy (3118) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633467)

Wow. Preview Fail. Here is the Allegiance link http://www.freeallegiance.org/ [freeallegiance.org]

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

RKThoadan (89437) | more than 4 years ago | (#29634613)

Allegiance rests firmly in the category of games I must never, ever try for fear of losing my life to it. It sounds like a really awesome game.

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 4 years ago | (#29689423)

If you can get past the somewhat dated graphics, it is indeed a really awesome game. I actually played it back when it was a commercial product, and only returned to it a few years ago when I discovered that it lives on in open-sourced reincarnation. You should definitely try it; the community is small but very welcoming of newbies, and the gameplay is a *lot* of fun.

Re:Enders game: The game (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29633469)

This has been done before, the human side in Tremulous had this years ago. FTFY

Re:Enders game: The game (2, Interesting)

Jarnin (925269) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633523)

So instead you have 1 commander and 2 lieutenants. The 2 lieutenants can be put in charge of secondary objectives and routing information for the commander. That way they get some commander exp, but they can't completely mess up a campaign.

Re:Enders game: The game (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29633795)

The Empires mod for half life 2 is pretty much this as well, it's pretty fun as long as you have a good team.

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

Patch86 (1465427) | more than 4 years ago | (#29634261)

They seem to have this base covered- there's talk of having player-versus-NPC battles as part of the new player experience, which would give everyone a chance to get to grips with the game without being steam-rolled by a clan veteran.

Having small groups of newbs taking part in small-scale, easy-rated NPC battles seems like a good way of letting people get the feel for commanding (and getting the feel of foot-soldiering too) without pissing people off and getting a terrible reputation. Especially considering if this game will impact on the colossal, persistent politics of EVE.

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 4 years ago | (#29635397)

My experience was that if you had a good commander, the overall game was good. If you had a shit commander, which was often, then the game was pretty bad. The problem is the ratios. You can't have everyone being the commander. What often happened was that one guy was voted in to become the commander because he was good, but then nobody else got to practice the commander role, so it was very self-reinforcing.

That was something what Tribes 2 tried to solve by giving everyone a CC (Command Center) view. Every player could see where others went and what they were doing. What were team assets status and so on. You could even remotely observe other player without being a observer.

The problem was that people did not understand that T2 was not about what role you played on the team, but that every player did everything.

Best teams were those where players could do everything and work together all the problems. Everyone was attacking and defending when ever it was needed. The key to everything was discussion using the game own VoIP and quick voice answers etc.

And greatest demand from the players was that they can sit down on one place over 2 minutes if needed, doing nothing when team / group leader ordered so. Sacrificing them selfs for benefits of the team.

Tribes 2 biggest problem was the players. Too complex and deep strategies were needed from players and too strong teamplay that Counter Strike and Tribes 1 won after a while.

Now there is anymore a small group of servers (about 50) and small group of players playing the free version. With hacked mainserver from www.tribesnext.com.

(So if someone wants to give a shot for game what has very deep learning curve, just download client and a patch, create profile and go to play)

P.S Great teams had Teamspeak or similar to discus and created squads on there for what then team leader or strategic commander gave orders and others followed then precisely.

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

ion.simon.c (1183967) | more than 4 years ago | (#29635505)

Holy fuckging shit. Tribes 2? Actually functional?!

+5 does not begin to describe how informative this post is.

Re:Enders game: The game (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29636407)

I imagine that beeing commander will have something to do with your eve skills since the two games will be connected.
So for example someone that has leadership skills may have the option to be a commander and give bonusses to the other players.
Imagine something like beeing a fleet commander in eve if you have trained the skills you give +% armor,damage ect to others.

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

Atrox666 (957601) | more than 4 years ago | (#29639567)

Single player command training would be cool

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

Reapy (688651) | more than 4 years ago | (#29647947)

I'll be psyched up to try this if they get it out on a PC at all, which I am doubtful of. I think the pub server area will be a mess just like games like allegiance, savage, natural selection, battlefield, etc...

This is solved somewhat when you step into the 'eve' area of the game. What will be interesting here is effectively forcing players to form rank and structure. This is somewhat what shadowbane did with PVP and it worked well.. in that game if you wanted to go farther you HAD TO join a guild. It should be similar here, if you want to participate in an EVE battle you HAVE TO join a guild/squad. This would allow each unit to set up its own strategies and leaders, even set up training mode for new potential leaders.

The problems here of coarse are going to be the unchecked teabagging matches where people that have spent $$ or ISK are going to steamroll your newbie squad. Also, I hesitate at a FPS who wants to have micro-transactions for items.

Still, going to watch this one closely, nobody else is doing anything like it.

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 4 years ago | (#29689393)

Another game that featured this idea to an extent is/was Allegiance. Teams of players (20 or more per side wasn't uncommon) with one commander for each team. The individual players flew ships (not much like the EVE ships; it's space-based combat flight sim with dogfighting and minefields and such) and would attempt to carry out tasks (hopefully) as the team needed them. The commander meanwhile spent his or her time in a top-down view of explored space, ordering NPC miners or mobile repair carriers, purchasing technologies, building stations and defensive batteries, and issuing orders (which were usually more of an objective, such as "get in bombers and repair ships, we're going to take out their garrison station"). The commander could join the fight directly (and in small games often does) but in a large game there may be enough to keep track of that the commander delegates the investor role (buying technologies and ships) to another player, to focus on command.

For those interested, the game was originally released by Microsoft, didn't do well commercially (possibly because Internet connections were typically not really good enough at the time), and was eventually discontinued, then open-sourced. The community picked up the game, took over maintenance on the codebase, set up their own servers, and provide it for free today. A quick warning: the game is complex and has a substantial learning curve, although the community is very welcoming of newbies. http://freeallegiance.org/ [freeallegiance.org]

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

Loomismeister (1589505) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633473)

While I agree with you that Ender's game: The game, would be a good idea, I think this game isn't any closer to reaching that point than many other similar games. The one that immediately comes to my mind is BF2142, but I know others have been done. Also, Orson Scott Card has used other 'games' in his novels that would be very cool video game ideas. But I think most of his game ideas are pretty impossible to fulfill in our time, which might be what he was aiming for to make his sci-fi universes.

Re:Enders game: The game (1)

anomnomnomymous (1321267) | more than 4 years ago | (#29643485)

Besides Natural Selection (as mentioned below here), there's also a game called 'Savage' (made by S2 Games), which can be downloaded for free since the release of the sequel, Savage 2.
Savage has this RTS element for both sides (beasts vs. humans), and is an awesome game.
I don't know if S1 still has any multiplayer servers at the moment, but if not, if you're into these kind of games, Savage 2 can be bought for a tenner or something (and you'd support an indy studio with it).

Planetside (1)

InvisibleClergy (1430277) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633243)

Man, this reminds me of Planetside. Anybody remember that game? I got it free at Gen Con one year, and I stopped playing after running around for about 3 hours and getting killed by things I couldn't see. How is that MMOFPS doing, these days.

Re:Planetside (1)

Jarnin (925269) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633547)

They just merged the last couple servers together, so they're down to 1 server now, but I've read population is still pretty decent. They probably still have around 10-20k active subs, with maybe 1500-2000 people on at prime time. Planetside just missed the mark. The combat was fun when it was remotely balanced, and even then you could still have a lot of fun. Vehicles rocked. Weapons and armor rocked. BFRs were probably where I lost interest. Or was it it the cave expansion... Like I said, they just missed the mark.

What they really messed up was releasing the game without having base and continent capture down to a fun experience. Back in the day you basically had a free-for-all. You had single hackers capping bases because there were no cap rules. Then they added in the lattice/matrix, where bases had to be capped in order, and it made the game a little more concentrated and fun. Until you've captured the same base from the same direction 27 times, then it gets kind of boring.

Since the announcement of Dust 514 there's been talk of a Planetside 2 being considered over at SOE. I'm not really sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I'm hoping they extensively play-test it before it's released into the wild. Ah, who am I kidding...

I think I've played that before... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29633315)

Sounds quite similar to the marine side of Natural Selection [http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/about/]
I guess the main difference is that this will support a much bigger battlefield (and no aliens?).

Re:I think I've played that before... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29634971)

Not aliens in the Halo sense. EVE has five races, all originating from Earth. They're pretty human, except for maybe the fifth race...

Re:I think I've played that before... (1)

RoadDoggFL (876257) | more than 4 years ago | (#29635987)

In the Halo sense? Halo's aliens are bipeds with a social/religious system. I'm sure they're a lot different than the races in EVE Online, but Halo's hardly a good example to use as a comparison to Natural Selection.

Wouldn't... uhh, Aliens be a better fit?

An EVE player's perspective (3, Interesting)

cybereal (621599) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633531)

As a player of EVE Online who really likes the game but isn't that interested in the battling aspect, I have high hopes for this interesting concept. Particularly, I hope that the MMOFPS integrates with the existing game world through the market. I play primarily industrial efforts in the current game and would enjoy another vector of marketing strategies to pursue to further fatten my wallet.

Also, I think it will be cool to play the FPS as a genre diversion where I can potentially continue to forward my in-game goals from a totally different perspective. All-in-all, as an existing EVE player, I'm definitely looking forward to this game!

Re:An EVE player's perspective (1)

vertinox (846076) | more than 4 years ago | (#29645159)

As a player of EVE Online who really likes the game but isn't that interested in the battling aspect, I have high hopes for this interesting concept. Particularly, I hope that the MMOFPS integrates with the existing game world through the market.

Me too. One could imagine a whole secondary market for small arms manufacturing that FPS players could pay ship players ISK they earn from their missions.

So depending on who is selling, it depends on what small arms you can buy for your missions.

Only gonna work in hardcore. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29633537)

This is only going to work in hardcore gamers where every player knows what to do and how to follow orders. Strategy games work because the player can control his units absolutely, which includes sending them to their deaths for diversions etc. I don't see this working with the average gamers who just want to rack up their killcount. It will probably a be a cool game for those people already experienced with squad based gaming who want to take it to the next lever, or for competitions. Heck. It might even be a good training tool for the millitary. Either way I think this will be a game for a very niche market.

Re:Only gonna work in hardcore. (1)

AigariusDebian (721386) | more than 4 years ago | (#29637065)

Yep, and EVE itself is the same - CCCP listen too much to hardcore gamers who constitute a tiny percentage of the gaming market and don't cater enough to casuals that bring in the lion share of the revenue for any MMO. Thus they have less money to spend developing the game and everyone looses, including the hardcore players. You can hope that they have realied this fundamental mistake by now, but I would not my breath.

Re:Only gonna work in hardcore. (3, Insightful)

ThePsion5 (1037256) | more than 4 years ago | (#29640927)

If CCP spend their time listening to casual gamers EVE would likely be thrown in the large pile of failed MMOs. EVE thrives because if fulfills a niche that no other game provides for myself and a few hundred thousand other gamers - I've never played an MMO where combat against other players can be as complex and fun as EVE's. If CCP spent its time listening to casual gamers there would be very little loss, the market would no longer be player-controlled, and it would be possible to obtain every ship without cooperating with other players in any form.

EVE has been a success because it knows what its players want. Attempting to cater to a casual audience and become a space-based version of World of Warcraft would destroy it and drive away the vast majority of its players.

Re:Only gonna work in hardcore. (1)

Reapy (688651) | more than 4 years ago | (#29648773)

I would like to second this. If Dust goes casual, there are already 8 copies of this game in existence or in the works. I mean, most notably as the article said, it is battlefield 2142 titan mode. What new gameplay will dust offer me casually? A game just as good as battlefield when i have a decent commander, and a crappy game when you have a crappy commander. There are plenty of sci fi shooters out there, bf2142, global agenda, planetside, halo etc. It'll just be another FPS with vehicles and get lost in a sea of mediocrity.

Arguments (1)

Tibia1 (1615959) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633599)

This game will be a spark for many arguments. I've heard dozens of arguments about how to defeat a boss in wow, even though there is usually only one correct way to defeat him. Now people will have to take opinionated orders from a player leader while they attack the other team, and it might be interesting if they can choose to defy those orders.

The espionage factor? (3, Insightful)

ezraekman (650090) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633633)

I wonder how CCP will handle issues of commanders allied with the opposing force, and commanding his/her forces to their doom? This *is* the Eve universe, after all...

Re:The espionage factor? (4, Insightful)

Jedi Alec (258881) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633721)

Judging from past experiences...they'll give him a pat on the back for a job well done. This *is* the Eve universe, after all... :-)

Re:The espionage factor? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29633731)

Why should CCP "handle" it? The situation you describe is the very essence of player-generated content. Think of the RP intensity of being a Dust merc clan betrayed in this way... wanting to find out who caused this, and getting revenge on them and the treacherous commander. That sounds pretty awesome in fact. I would guess that CCP would "handle" the situation by publiscising it, as it would be a fantastic advertisment for what differentiates Dust from Halo 4/5/6.

Incidentally there will be a strong incentive for MCCs not to do what you have described, because once they've done it, they will likely never get to command anyone again. So it would only happen when the stakes are really high...

Re:The espionage factor? (1)

Rakshasa Taisab (244699) | more than 4 years ago | (#29634101)

Why would people think this would be a problem more than it is in the space ship game called EVE? It's not like the mercs you hire will be randomly selected, they'll be part of a corp that has built up reputation through countless battles.

Re:The espionage factor? (1)

ezraekman (650090) | more than 4 years ago | (#29664815)

I wasn't suggesting that they "handle" it in the sense that they would rule against it. I was wondering how they would address it politically. CCP has said quite a bit in the past about how this sort of thing is possible, and how trying to police the world against such activity can actually be counter-productive in many ways. I was just pondering precisely how they would address it. For example, would there be a drop in standings? Would some kind of world-specific CONCORD-like police force (MPs? Commanding officers? Lynch mobs?) retaliate in any way? Would that player's ability to venture out into specific areas or accept certain types of missions be affected?

Ender's Game (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29633653)

Ingredients:
1. Young starship pilots [CHECK] (it's going to be a console MMO afterall)
2. Molecular Disruption Device w/ mission to destroy evil (but not-so-evil-afterall) aliens' planet [?]

Put #2 in the game and I'm sold !

Like BF2142 (4, Insightful)

bitrex (859228) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633677)

This sounds very much like the Titan Assault mode in Battlefield 2142. After playing as commander a few times in that game I came to feel strangely like I had the least power to affect the outcome of anyone - being a squad leader or member in a squad that worked together and communicated well seemed much more effective in determining the outcome of a round. As commander essentially all you could do was initiate satellite tracks and dispatch UAVs, drop supplies and the occasional orbital strike, and use a large menu to attempt to give orders to the squads on your team. The problem is that nobody is under any obligation to actually follow through on those orders, and the small point rewards that squad members would receive for following orders seemed to be outweighed by the lure of "going where the kills are". The best experiences are to be had on servers where following squad leader and commander orders are mandatory or kick. If DUST 514 is going to be fun to play from a commander's perspective I would hope that the rewards or punishments for following/not following orders would be increased, or that the command structure can in some way be enforced.

Re:Like BF2142 (2, Insightful)

Rakshasa Taisab (244699) | more than 4 years ago | (#29634111)

It's called 'kicking idiots out of your corp', something that happens often in EVE.

Re:Like BF2142 (2, Interesting)

trip11 (160832) | more than 4 years ago | (#29634903)

The corp/alliance structure will really help with this I think. From the article, it sounds like as a merc you'll be hired personally. So yes, you might get hired to lead a random bunch of morons who won't do anything you say. OR you get hired along with the rest of your corp/alliance to beat up on the members of another corp.

In the second case, if the grunts you are commanding don't follow orders, kick them out the corp. Put black marks by their names. Tell everyone how much they suck. Refuse to command them again.

The question, I think, comes down to the DUST players. How many serious players will get involved in the corp/alliance structure? How many halo players will just want some laughs screwing everyone over? If there are enough of the former that you can avoid hiring the latter, this will be awesome. If the *only* way to populate your battlefield is to hire the casual players, then I agree, the RTS side of things will degenerate quickly.

But as long as there are some rewards for winning a fight, I imagine the serious players will gravitate towards the serious generals and form groups that are very hard for casual players to beat. All in all a win for user-driven content.

Re:Like BF2142 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29635125)

This sounds very much like the Titan Assault mode in Battlefield 2142. After playing as commander a few times in that game I came to feel strangely like I had the least power to affect the outcome of anyone...

In dust, commanders place everything: spawn points, hardware that becomes strategic objectives for the other team, etc. (fwiw)

Re:Like BF2142 (1)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 4 years ago | (#29635551)

Have you played Battlefield 2's mod called "Project Reality"? It gets developed by some ex-soldiers (might be still be serving) and they have got very nice touch to game and... reality to it ;)

Commander is not weak at all. And same thing goes for squad leader. Without squad leader, normal players are nothing. And without squads, the whole team loose because commander can not help all teams at all.

But it follows one key function as in real world. The squad leaders are more important than platoon leaders or higer officers. Because they know their mens and their strong/weak sides and what they can do. And they know who to send to do what task, what any other officer can not know because for them all other soldiers are just pieces on the map.

Re:Like BF2142 (1)

iamangry (1463943) | more than 4 years ago | (#29640781)

Seriously, if they're talking about 64 players on a console for this thing then DICE needs to finally step it up with BF3 (which they BETTER be developing right now... yeah, quit reading this and get back to work!) and have 128 player support at the very least!

Eurogamer = Not Professional (2, Interesting)

Hubbell (850646) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633869)

After their review of Darkfall Online, which also happened to be the first time I heard of them, I'll never read or give a shit about a review by them. The chief editor for Eurogamer sided with the reviewer when called out by not only Tasos [darkfallonline.com] , lead 'PR' person for Darkfall who claimed to have server logs showing the guy hadn't even played the game, but hundreds of eurogamer readers and even more Darkfall players who almost unanimously agreed it was impossible for the guy to have played the game and still write the review he did as nearly none of it was based in any fact.

Re:Eurogamer = Not Professional (1)

Reapy (688651) | more than 4 years ago | (#29648501)

Interesting series of links. I have been watching darkfall but after reading the forums a bit and investigating around on the web about it, decided to give it a year or two and come back. Anyway, it may be worth noting that while that first review is trash, the second one has what seems to be a much more fair and balanced view of the game.

It gave it a 4 of 10, but rather then mocking the game, presented a more factual oriented review, and when moving to opinions, was very clear it was a personal preference of the game.

The first reviewer stuck me as a guy who's first FPS was halo. The other guy seemed as though he had been around a while and gave the different a mechanics a fair review in their scope.

If it offers any biaas, I had drawn the same conclusions that the reviewer found while playing. I can tell the control scheme is somewhat weak, they are still ironing out bugs and oddities and there would be too much macroing going on in the beginning for my taste. It is funny as much as I thought skill based systems superior to classic MMO leveling, skills lend yourself to doing the same dumb stuff over and over (IE playing oblivion I would jam down a key on cast and forward and run against a wall casting a cheap spell when I went to work). People seem to do this pretty frequently in DFO, even though it is bannable.

Anyway, this game has shadowbane syndrome, a risky themed mmo that is finally different, oriented on PVP, but just not enough cash and developers to pull it off correctly.

Re:Eurogamer = Not Professional (1)

Hubbell (850646) | more than 4 years ago | (#29684921)

The second 'review' was not even a legitimate review, almost the entirety of it was apologizing/explaining away the first review. The first one was almost entirely made up, the second one was just a poor covering their asses sham.

Game isn't out yet. (1)

splutty (43475) | more than 4 years ago | (#29655105)

Problem you'll have here with 'reviews', is that this game isn't actually on the market yet. The only time when people have seen it, and some people have played it, has been at the Eve Fanfest this last weekend.

So all impressions and review points come from CCP's own presentations and the battles shown during the fanfest.

Advertising Overload (-1, Offtopic)

labnet (457441) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633881)

These guys must have dominated about 50% of the online ads I have seen lateley, with the most cappy slogans.
ie Picture of Busty Girl. 'What will you have me do my Lord'
The temptation to click on the link has been 0.001%
Suprised so many /.ers are into it.

Re:Advertising Overload (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29633963)

EvE ads with Busty Girls!? Where must see... is it a Minmatar slave girl?

I guess you are mixing EvE with Evony.

Re:Advertising Overload (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29636883)

you sir, are and idiot ;)

Bearcock says.... (1)

gatkinso (15975) | more than 4 years ago | (#29633981)

I would nuke the MCC from orbit.

sins of a Solar Empire (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29633997)

Sounds just like it.

Not: Sins of a Solar Empire (1)

roguegramma (982660) | more than 4 years ago | (#29634067)

This doesn't sound like "Sins Of A Solar Empire", but like "Savage", just like the other AC said.

Problem with Savage is that there need to be like 4-8 players per commander, so not everyone can play RTS.

This isn't why I stopped playing Savage though, I stopped because I don't manage to kill the enemy in close combat.

Damnit, *that's* what they mean by console! (2, Insightful)

cduffy (652) | more than 4 years ago | (#29634445)

Until I started following links, I thought we were going for retro I/O -- a game with lots of players, and a grunt/commander split, all rendered to ASCII and running in a terminal.

On finding the truth... okay, it's pretty, but I'm very disappointed.

Re:Damnit, *that's* what they mean by console! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29634859)

Yeah, me too.

Re:Damnit, *that's* what they mean by console! (1)

lennier (44736) | more than 4 years ago | (#29638373)

World of Nethack, sort of thing?

Re:Damnit, *that's* what they mean by console! (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#29643033)

As a, possibly, current EVE player - why should you be dissapointed? You don't need to have another powerfull PC to be comfortably logged into both full EVE and this, cheap console will suffice.

Re:Damnit, *that's* what they mean by console! (1)

cduffy (652) | more than 4 years ago | (#29664905)

If you say "cheap console" and mean a PS3 or Xbox 360, and I say "cheap console" and am talking about the vintage VT220 sitting in the garage... let's say we're in different worlds. :)

Does not work on a PC, hence I am not interested (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 4 years ago | (#29636041)

Enogh said. Consoles are far too expensive if you already have a gaming PC.

Re:Does not work on a PC, hence I am not intereste (1)

metamatic (202216) | more than 4 years ago | (#29637727)

Consoles are far too expensive if you already have a gaming PC.

And gaming PCs are far too expensive if you have a console. So what is your point?

Re:Does not work on a PC, hence I am not intereste (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#29643041)

But if you are already an EVE player, and want to try this, console is the cheapest comfortable way to be logged into both at the same time.

Re:Does not work on a PC, hence I am not intereste (1)

Turiko (1259966) | more than 4 years ago | (#29643101)

Oh really? I think a simple alt-tab would do better, without paying for a console. If you can't/don't want to do that, get a second monitor and run both games windowed. Problem solved for under 100$ or free if you already have 2 monitors.

A console is not even equipped for decent FPS games. Nothing beats the accuracy of a good gaming mouse, and even if you buy some cheap-ass mouse you'll still be more accurate then a little thumbstick.

Re:Does not work on a PC, hence I am not intereste (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#29644445)

While EVE (even few instances of it) can indeed be comfortably alt-tabbed, this "MMOFPS" will be probably quite gfx demanding, requiring quite powerful machine to comfortably run both (notice I didn't say "cheapest", I said "cheapest comfortable"), so it might even out.

Regarding mouse - you do realise that current gen consoles have USB ports? It's only up to the devs to enable using mouse. Also, it seems they want to make this FPS very "tactical", team-based. I would hope they realise that doesn't include twitch-accuracy as deciding game mechanics.

Re:Does not work on a PC, hence I am not intereste (1)

Turiko (1259966) | more than 4 years ago | (#29645817)

you can connect a mouse, yes. Then you can go look for a surface to put it on. Consoles are nearly always hooked up to TV's, so it often won't work.

Other then that, pc games have something called an options menu. It lets you choose resolution and how much details you want to see.

As a last resort, there is of course the possibility of a small upgrade, with graphics cards these days being good enough for a low price. 50$ should get a good enough graphics card. Eve just doesn't require much.

Re:Does not work on a PC, hence I am not intereste (1)

Reapy (688651) | more than 4 years ago | (#29648625)

I know there is a little debate going on here on console vs fps, but I just want to throw in here, for me personally, FPS is meant for a mouse and keyboard. I own consoles and play them as frequently as my PC, but I save the sports/action/racing games for the console, and leave the strat and FPS games for the PC. Still, it is just what you like, I know some people could headshot me with easily with a joystick and no autoaim vs my mouse and keyboard. We are geezer gamers :)

I'd grab this thing for sure on the PC, but don't see myself investing in it to get stuck with a controller to aim with and then having to wrestle my wife for the TV to play. It is a shame the devs are so die hard console oriented, but I will still be following this game to see how it shapes up.

Sounds like Savage 2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29637343)

Sounds like it plays similar to Savage 2 [savage2.com] from S2 Games.

Note the native Linux client.

FPS on console... (1)

vikstar (615372) | more than 4 years ago | (#29642005)

- playing an FPS on a console is like playing the clarinet with your anus,
- playing an FPS on a console is like masturbating in a straitjacket,
- playing an FPS on a console is like watching the dungeons and dragons movie...

Re:FPS on console... (1)

justinlee37 (993373) | more than 4 years ago | (#29647629)

Playing an FPS on a console is like playing a flight simulator with an NES controller ... seriously, what the hell is up with those stupid little thumbsticks? It is SO HARD to aim with them.

Remember, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29660407)

The enemy gate is down.

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