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Ted Dziuba Says, "I Don't Code In My Free Time"

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the your-allotment-of-seconds-on-earth dept.

Programming 619

theodp writes "When he gets some free time away from his gigs at startup Milo and The Register, you won't catch Ted Dziuba doing any recreational programming. And he wouldn't want to work for a company that doesn't hire those who don't code in their spare time. 'You know what's more awesome than spending my Saturday afternoon learning Haskell by hacking away at a few Project Euler problems?' asks Dziuba. 'F***, ANYTHING.'"

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Ted Dziuba (5, Insightful)

bitemykarma (1515895) | more than 4 years ago | (#29712947)

Who?

Also:

Who cares?

Re:Ted Dziuba (5, Funny)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 4 years ago | (#29712969)

Nobody.

Also: LAST POST!

Re:Ted Dziuba (5, Funny)

masshuu (1260516) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713353)

Last post Denied.

Also anyone wanna know a more interesting article om /. ?

ANY FUCKING ARTICLE YOU CAN FIND.

I really don't get it. I looked around, and i can't see why this guy made it onto /.

Re:Ted Dziuba (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29712997)

We might know him if he was coding something awesome in his free time, but he's not.

RE: CAPITALIIST SWINE !! Why RMS begat Linus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713325)

Always with the "my time is my time" self-absorbed types making it seem like the rest of us don't have lives. Well, I have a life. I am not a mutant !!

I code, therefore I am. I am a kernel hacker !! That is a life unto itself. Maybe not what you call a "life", but if it weren't for me, you'd be sucking at Microsoft's tit instead of mine !!

Re:Ted Dziuba (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713375)

He's not coding because he spends his free time trolling /.

Re:Ted Dziuba (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713035)

http://www.linkedin.com/in/teddziuba [linkedin.com]

As far as I can tell, he's a 26 year old programmer/blogger who doesn't much like to program in his free time.

I'm not sure why I'm supposed to care, but whatever.

Re:Ted Dziuba (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713305)

He did work on Google intranet site and Milo. Milo looks stupid and working on an intranet site is for those who can't code well enough for the public. Hell, he's probably coded it in such a way that Google must keep IE6 around.

Perhaps he should code more in his free time.

It's fun to take an exterme view on things. ;)

Re:Ted Dziuba (5, Funny)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713327)

As far as I can tell, he's a 26 year old programmer/blogger who doesn't much like to program in his free time.

Also, he needs to get the hell off my lawn.

Re:Ted Dziuba (4, Informative)

jcr (53032) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713071)

Who?

Apparently, he's a big shot from YetAnotherDotCom. Why, I'll bet he's almost half as famous as the next random poseur.

-jcr

Re:Ted Dziuba (4, Informative)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713287)

A big shot YetAnotherDotCom who has a very confusing self identity.

It looks like he graduated in 2006... which is when I graduated and I'm 23. But then he posts this:

"I love it when twenty-something engineers take such a hard-line position on something they have so little experience with, like hiring. Saying that you wouldn't hire somebody for a programming job because they don't program in their spare time is blissfully naive. Yeah, I remember the days when my greatest responsibility to another human being was making rent on the first of the month."

Wait what? "Remember the days?" Wasn't that like... last year?

Re:Ted Dziuba (2, Insightful)

shirai (42309) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713079)

This is a response to these other postings.

Somebody asked this question on reddit
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9s3ww/would_you_hire_a_programmer_that_does_not_write/ [reddit.com]

A while ago my company interviewed someone who, in the course of some standard question, said that after the 5 o'clock whistle blows, they avoid computers totally. They don't have any hobbies involving their PC and often don't turn it on unless they are expecting an important email or need to look up directions. I followed up to ask how they got into programming and they said they took the right courses in college and now has had a few jobs doing it.

Would you hire a software engineer who isn't a hobbyist programmer? What if they avoid computers totally at home? Does it matter if a candidate has strictly a professional interest in software and just pretends it doesn't exist outside the office?

And was answered with this:

http://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2009-10-08/no_hire.md [github.com]
No, I Wouldn't Hire a Programmer That Has No Interest in Programming Outside of Business Hours

Here's another way to frame this question: Would I even interview a programmer who only works their programming job from 9-5? If not, why not?

The answer is remarkably simple. No, I would not interview them, for the simple reason that I don't know who they are and they don't know who I am. When I am hiring, my first and best source of prospective colleagues is my network. Industry people I know. Where do I get to know people? Conferences. Open source. Blogging. Twitter. I don't advertise my job openings on monster.com. So how did this person come to sit in front of me to tell me he(?) pretends software doesn't exist outside of the office?

I think you have to align your values with your complete hiring process, not just with your interview questions. If you value people who are passionate about their craft, you have to use a different means of selecting prospects than if you value having warm bodies sitting in chairs. If you want a warm body with a certain minimal competence in a chair, you use monster.com and recruiters to find people. if you value community and craft, you use your network and your community.

Done this way, questions like the above tend to take care of themselves.

Re:Ted Dziuba (4, Funny)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713111)

Who?

Also:

Who cares?

READ THE F***ING ARTICLE!

And then pretty please tell me if it answers your questions, because I sure as hell don't know who TD is or care, so no way am I going to RTFA.

Re:Ted Dziuba (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713161)

he was a writer on uncov.org

Re:Ted Dziuba (2, Insightful)

node 3 (115640) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713239)

Who?

A man with a life, apparently.

Also:
Who cares?

Oh crap, the nerds are reaching for the torches and pitchforks...

(Before you mod me down, ask yourself if any of what I wrote is not true. Read some of the posts below mine if you're not sure.)

Re:Ted Dziuba (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713347)

Oh crap, the nerds are reaching for the torches and pitchforks...

isnt that what slashdot is for

Yeah (1)

deck (201035) | more than 4 years ago | (#29712957)

Yeah and the whole world should be just like him!

Re:Yeah (5, Interesting)

Flentil (765056) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713073)

I think he's trying to show that you don't have to feel bad for not working in your off-hours, as many people seem to think they should, and also speaking out against companies that encourage and possibly mandate this odd behavior through their hiring practices.

Re:Yeah (2, Informative)

Shimbo (100005) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713101)

Yeah and the whole world should be just like him!

You're misreading what he said, which is understandable with the number of negatives he used. He was making exactly the opposite point, which was that it was your business whether or not you programmed in your free time.

Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (2, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 4 years ago | (#29712973)

... in computers. Isn't that worth something when weighing up job candidates? Sorry , but if this guy doesn't realise that someone who is interested in what they do as a day job will probably put in more effort that someone who's just a clock watching for-the-money type then frankly he's an idiot. This rule applies to ANY profession, not just programming.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (3, Insightful)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713017)

But not coding in your free time also shows balance.

If you assume that X straight hours will lead to a greater risk of burnout, then reducing X by not coding when you don't have to could allow you to remain fresh for when you have to put your code on the line.

This is analogous to the proverb stating the difference between Europeans and Americans:

"Americans live to work, but Europeans work to live"

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (2, Interesting)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713029)

My tram ride to work takes 40 minutes. Honestly, what am I going to do with that time? I have a eeepc 701 loaded with ubuntu. On the tram I write code. It makes the commute bearable for me,

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (2, Insightful)

dunkelfalke (91624) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713081)

most of people read some book.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713249)

I have done a bit of that but I find coding to be much more compelling.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (4, Insightful)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713109)

My tram ride to work takes 40 minutes. Honestly, what am I going to do with that time? I have a eeepc 701 loaded with ubuntu. On the tram I write code. It makes the commute bearable for me,

If you can't see what else you could be doing with that time other than coding the I would suggest that you need to step back from it and take a look at the bigger picture. But don't take this as meaning I am saying you shouldn't code - just that you should be aware of the tradeoffs you are making in order to code.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (3, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713031)

"But not coding in your free time also shows balance"

Not really. Theres a huge difference between someone who spends maybe a few free hours a week doing his own thing learning some new techniques or programming some fun thing for himself or whatever, and the kind of basement dwelling hermit who really has no social skills or life outside the computer screen. The first person is the type you should hire, the 2nd is the type you should usually avoid.

Otherwise you might as well say that Ferrari should only hire race drivers who have no real interest in driving or airlines should only hire pilots who have no interest in flying outside of sitting in a 737 pilot seat monitoring systems for 3 hours.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (2, Insightful)

mlts (1038732) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713205)

I think the key here is is the person interested enough in coding that they are willing to keep improving themselves as a programmer versus someone who just programs enough to "do their eight and out the gate", and has little interest in much other than making the deadlines.

It is a tough balance: On one hand, life has far more to offer than just spending time coding work stuff 24/7 and being essentially a one trick pony. On the other hand, one needs to keep some interest in their occupation and perhaps continuing to grow in it, to keep at a professional standard. It is easy to get stagnant in the computer industry, so keeping with the times is important.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (4, Insightful)

Unoti (731964) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713105)

But not coding in your free time also shows balance.

Perhaps, but never coding in your free time, not ever, and saying that you've never enjoyed writing code to explore or learn something: that shows a distinct lack of balance.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (0, Troll)

PocariSweat1991 (1651929) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713233)

Europeans work?

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (2, Insightful)

FlyByPC (841016) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713241)

But not coding in your free time also shows balance.

If my free-time code were anything like my for-work code, then maybe. But that's rarely the case (and when it is, it's because I'm working on a particularly cool project at work.)

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (2, Insightful)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713331)

This is assuming there are only two extremes. Those who code non-stop and those who don't code at all. There are all sorts of levels in between.

It would cause warnings for me if someone said they refuse to code in their free time. I don't expect them to do it all the time (that's a bit weird too) but if they love what they do then, at some point, they should do it in their free time.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (2, Insightful)

LainTouko (926420) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713019)

Coding in your spare time whilst not working with computers or unemployed shows an interest in computers. Coding in your spare time when you're already coding for 40 hours a week for your job suggests more of an obsession.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (1)

geckofiend (314803) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713335)

So mechanics should never restore a classic car in their garage?

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (1)

dunkelfalke (91624) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713021)

Well, I can speak only for myself but although I love programming, when I came home from work (when I was still employed) I was tired and didn't want to do any more work at home. It was time for my other hobbies then - maybe playing a little guitar, maybe watching the fishes in my fishtank for a while, reading some good SF, cooking a nice meal, whatever. 8 hours spent on one hobby is more than enough.

Frankly, if the only hobby and joy of your life is programming, it only shows that your horizon is pretty narrow if you know what I mean.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (5, Funny)

symes (835608) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713047)

...someone who is interested in what they do as a day job will probably put in more effort that someone who's just a clock watching for-the-money type then frankly he's an idiot. This rule applies to ANY profession, not just programming

Brain surgery? Nothing like after a hard day in the operating theatre unwinding by taking out the kids pre-frontal cortex.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (4, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713063)

I'm sure brain surgeons read medical journals and go to symposiums outside of their normal working hours.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (3, Insightful)

Lemmy Caution (8378) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713053)

He has kids.

Those of you who don't have kids, won't get it.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (3, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713103)

If you let your kids take over your entire free time then your not doing yourself or your kids any favours.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (4, Insightful)

clickclickdrone (964164) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713345)

>If you let your kids take over your entire free time then your not doing yourself or your kids any favours.
I'm guessing you're not a parent?

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713157)

Children are a waste of time and money. And if my parents had thought that way I wouldn't be here. Big wows. One less AC clogging up Slashdot.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (1)

Unoti (731964) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713209)

I have kids, and think he's being over the top about it. Spending time with the fam is important. But if you want to be the best developer you can be, you're going to need to spend at least some time contemplating things outside of the normal grind of work. Perhaps he does that during work hours, or perhaps the normal grind of his work does and always will encompass staying on top of his game. Or perhaps his attitude will eventually get the best of him, and he'll become obsolete more quickly than an enthusiastic person would.

The problem I have is how hard line he's being about it. I mean, it'd be much better if he said something like, "Well, I took a couple days to see if Python was worth using instead of Perl back in 98" or something. But he's just so over-the-top strident about never ever messing with computers outside of work hours.

Anyway people have all kinds of things they use to discriminate on hiring, like only wanting social drinkers, only wanting people that play golf, or sail, or whatever. Not hiring people that don't do at least some professional development on their own time makes a lot of sense in comparison.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (5, Funny)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713141)

This rule applies to ANY profession, not just programming.

I don't know, as a porn star, I'll do it for the money, but I really just don't like sex. Wouldn't want to do that in my spare time with hot chicks I don't even know.

(This post may have contained a few lies.)

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (1)

umghhh (965931) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713349)

The things that you do off working hours is your and only your private matter. Whether that is programming or something else is strictly private. OC we put some of it into our CVs but that does not mean that we are obliged to code after hours unless we are paid for this and even then there are limits to that.

I wonder how matters that belong to private life of an employee is a matter of interest for the company unless these activities are illegal in which case it is a case for justice department not for a company. In other words: I CAN share my hobbies and interests with the company but I DO NOT HAVE TO. I am however not surprised by the way the shear possibility that somebody may have a private life can lead to bulling attempts. Fascinating.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713371)

I myself program in my spare time a lot but I've known many very capable collegues who rarely even youch a computer at home.

In my experience it doesn't prove anything about how well somebody performs at work.

What MIGHT be an indication is exactly what those non-computer hobbies entail. If your spare time is spent mostly watching TV, browsing facebook or getting drunk or if you prefer to make music, program something or do sports says more about a person's character than whether that hobby requires using a computer or not.

Re:Coding in your spare time shows an interest.. (1)

vxvxvxvx (745287) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713381)

Absolutely. If I'm interviewing someone for a programming job and when I ask what qualifies them for the position, I don't want to hear "Well, I took programming classes at school." I mean, yes, that's good and all, but someone who can say that and can also say they contributed to some-major-OSS-project in their spare time is going to look better. If the only thing you can say is you took classes in it, I'll assume you're yet another fool who got sold on the TV commercials claiming millions of high paying programming jobs are waiting for you and has no interest in actually programming.

Project Euler (New Problem) (2, Funny)

feedayeen (1322473) | more than 4 years ago | (#29712975)

Greetings! Problem 260 will be accessible on Sat 17 Oct 2009 at 1.00 am [GMT]. With regards, Project Euler Team

Neither does Jack Black (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29712979)

Neither does Jack Black, so what?

Obvious (2, Funny)

canajin56 (660655) | more than 4 years ago | (#29712981)

If he doesn't code in his spare time, obviously he won't find himself working anywhere that only hires people that do.

Slacker (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29712987)

Slacker

That is all

What goes around, comes around... (4, Insightful)

creimer (824291) | more than 4 years ago | (#29712995)

When I worked as a spaghetti cook and eating spaghetti every night for three years, I didn't eat spaghetti for the next seven years.

When I worked as video game tester for six years, I very rarely played video games at home. After 40 to 80 hours a week testing games, I wanted to do something different with my time.

I been resisting offers to do technical writing since I write fiction in my off times. An ideal job is one that you can separate from your personal life.

Re:What goes around, comes around... (3, Interesting)

SerpentMage (13390) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713051)

It really depends on what you like, no?

Some people like doing this stuff in their spare time, others not. Though I do agree with the blog entry, "spare time none of my f****g business."

I personally can't work 7 days a week on the same stuff at work. Not because I don't like it, because I do. But because otherwise I will go stir crazy. I work in the market as a quant-developer. My morning starts at 9:00 CET (European markets open), and ends at 22:00 CET (American markets close). And once 22:00 hits let me tell you I am freaken happy that the day is over. And I am freaken happy once Friday close happens because I can relax until next Monday.

Oddly our brokerage (Interactive Brokers) does not allow you to log in over the weekend. I wonder if it is a sort of forced vacation... In the beginning I hated that IB closed over the weekends, but now I truly, truly appreciate it.

Re:What goes around, comes around... (1)

NoYob (1630681) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713173)

Oddly our brokerage (Interactive Brokers) does not allow you to log in over the weekend.

To keep you from putting in that code that front runs trades? After about a year of working 13 hour days!?! I would want to do whatever it took so that I wouldn't have to work ever again.

Re:What goes around, comes around... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713093)

At 80 hours a week, you'd not have any time within which to do anything different...

Re:What goes around, comes around... (1)

mweather (1089505) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713095)

An ideal job is one you enjoy. If you enjoy coding in your spare time, then coding is your ideal job.

Re:What goes around, comes around... (2, Insightful)

creimer (824291) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713145)

I enjoy doing desktop and help desk support at work. I would enjoy it less if I had to do that at home.

Re:What goes around, comes around... (2, Funny)

noidentity (188756) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713165)

I been resisting offers to do technical writing since I write fiction in my off times.

And we thank you for it!

Re:What goes around, comes around... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713315)

I been telling people that for years! With fiction, you can make crap up. With technical writing, everyone and their mother thinks they know how to write.

Re:What goes around, comes around... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713193)

I been resisting offers to do technical writing since I write fiction in my off times.

I suppose you're saving your talents for the paying gigs? *Zing!*

Re:What goes around, comes around... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713333)

You can say that. In four years of fiction writing, I made a grand total of $3.02 USD. The big time is just around the corner!

Re:What goes around, comes around... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713277)

I disagree. The ideal job is something that completes your life so that it does not feel like an imposition.

Re:What goes around, comes around... (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713359)

I doubt it. Just because of the very fact that you spend a third of your time doing something because it's work, you probably need to do something else, likely, something very different, when you're not working. I really don't think it's necessarily healthy to do the same thing for work and personal time, that's plain spending too much time doing that activity. I'm sure it can be done in short bursts, but I doubt it's sustainable.

Re:What goes around, comes around... (1)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713281)

Well that's just it, isn't it. Cooking is probably the good analogy. I'm a database programmer, and I code anything but in my spare time. Which is just like you the spaghetti cook -certainly you cooked in your spare time, but not spaghetti.

Very true (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713283)

While your hobbies and your job might be similar, still doesn't mean you want them to be the same. For example I'm a classic computer geek in many ways in that computers are my business and my hobby. I work doing systems and network support, and I like to spend my free time playing video games, messing with digital audio production, and so on. Most of my time is spent on a computer.

However, I discovered that doing computer support professionally has now given me little patience for doing it after hours. I no longer wish to spend time messing with my computer at home. I want it to just work, and get rather annoyed when it doesn't. I'm not interested in any hardware or software support. I want it to work, so I can use it to do other things.

Because of that I don't do many of the hardware geek things like overclock my system or the like. Not interested. I'll pay more to get a faster CPU if I need it, the stability is worth me not having to fuck with it. To some people, it is the opposite: Messing with the hardware is more than half the fun. Not me, I do that at work, at home I want it stable all the time.

So I can for sure see a programmer being the same way with regards to programming. Maybe they totally eschew computers on their off time, maybe they use them heavily but don't code. Either way I can see how coding could become a "work only" sort of thing.

That is, in fact, one of the reasons why I don't look for a job in the video game field. I've thought about it since at first it would seem to be a good idea. I like computers, I like games, I enjoy tech jobs so maybe I'd enjoy it more than my current job. However, I think it would likely ruin, or at very least dampen, my enjoyment of games in my off time. As such it is something I'm staying away from.

Re:What goes around, comes around... (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713379)

An ideal job is one that you can separate from your personal life.

Or the opposite, fuse the two together. I couldn't find a damn job, so I made a commercial product out of my hobby project. So my job is also my main hobby.

At the risk of blighting my good karma (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713007)

His articles on Te Register mark him as an attention seeking nobody.

Seeing this article here makes me want to slap someone, Mr Dziubas should not only not be given the oxygen of publicity, but oxygen itself is wasted on him

Re:At the risk of blighting my good karma (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713085)

Yeah the article is a bit of a troll, particularly around here.

Gardeners (4, Insightful)

Allicorn (175921) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713027)

I mean, you wouldn't hire a gardener who had a garden of his own - would you?

Schmuck.

Re:Gardeners (2, Funny)

Megane (129182) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713083)

...or you wouldn't go to a barber who doesn't cut his own... oh, wait. Let's stick with the gardener analogy.

You're missing the point (2, Insightful)

Mascot (120795) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713215)

When you're looking to hire a gardener, do you examine his previous work, or do you make sure he spends at least x hours a day tending his own garden?

If you do the latter, you're the bigger schmuck.

I'd also like to point out, that this Ted fellow did not say "I'd never work someplace where any of the other employees code at home". He says "I don't want to work someplace where coding at home is _a requirement_". There's a big difference.

No worries (4, Funny)

Linker3000 (626634) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713045)

I don't read Ted Dziuba's articles in my free time...or when I am working, actually.

Re:No worries (1)

SpinyNorman (33776) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713167)

I don't even know who Ted Dziuba is and googling for him doesn't return a WikiPedia article in the first page of results, which is as much effort as I can bother to make to find out.

Re:No worries (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713263)

He writes a blog and founded a startup that tanked miserably. There's not really much to say because he's never done anything noteworthy.

For some coding is working (1)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713055)

but for some working is all the formalism that is involved, or the particular thing that must be used or worked on. But coding could be fun, even more fun than some games. Of course, that is purely subjective. If he dont think that coding could be fun, and work in coding, maybe is doing the wrong work.

Please help me parse the triple negative (5, Insightful)

Megane (129182) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713067)

So he would want to work for those who do hire people who don't code in their spare time? Or would want to work for those who don't hire people who do code in their spare time? Or what?

And Who's on first, right?

Re:Please help me parse the triple negative (1)

kill-1 (36256) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713247)

I think he wouldn't want to work for companies who only hire people who do code in their spare time. But those companies wouldn't hire him anyway because he doesn't.

Re:Please help me parse the triple negative (0, Flamebait)

Virak (897071) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713351)

If you spent your spare time with English instead of Haskell, you'd probably be able to understand that. But I'll break it down for you. There are people who don't code in their spare time. There are companies that don't hire these people. The guy in the summary doesn't want to work for these companies. That wasn't so hard, was it?

How did this manage to get modded up? Is it "give mod points out to people who failed English classes" day?

Article Summary (3, Interesting)

Unoti (731964) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713069)

Article summary: Smug douchebag knows it all, or gets to learn it all on the job.

Good for him. But for normal people who are, say, coding ASP or Visual Basic 6 at work-- if they would like to have some professional development, I hope they're doing some coding on the side to reinvent themselves. People that don't generally end up doing something like working on COBOL systems principally written in the 60's and 70's. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm just saying: most people need to do some personal development off the the side of their job, or else they're stagnating. Plenty of people will disagree with me on this point, and have in the past on Slashdot. But generally speaking, those people have quit growing, and will of course deny it.

Re:Article Summary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713155)

"Smug douchebag" really doesn't do this prick justice:

Me, I can count on one hand the number of times I've programmed outside of work or a class. There was only once when I actually enjoyed it, though. I was in college, and shared a common wall with a girl from Spain who was painfully unaware that her computer had a volume control knob. She would stay up late on AOL instant messenger, and I couldn't sleep. So, I rigged up a Python script to play AOL instant messenger sounds randomly every 5 to 10 seconds, turned up my speakers, pointed them at the wall, and went on vacation for a week. And thus, the asshole you all know and love is born.

If he managed to make it through college without having the shit rightfully kicked out of him, he's astoundingly lucky.

Re:Article Summary (1)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713291)

Precisely. I just got a job fresh out of college coding in something more horrific than COBOL, (proprietary dialect of BASIC with a proprietary non-SQL database) and coding in my spare time is what keeps me sane.

Personally... (5, Insightful)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713075)

Personally I try to avoid companies that care that much about what I do in MY time in general. If I'm not on the clock, its none of your fucking business. If I decide to learn a new language on my own, it is irrelevant until I start using it at work, in which case I expect my going above and beyond to be noticed. If it is required that I learn something new for work, I sure as hell had better be paid by the company for it one way or another (even if it just means doing the learning during company time).

Re:Personally... (1)

buddyglass (925859) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713297)

Cosign.

Get some sun and exercise (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713077)

I agree with Ted - you can code in your dungeon, or you could go out, make friends, play with your kids, work on your hobbies, volunteer at a charity, learn how to cook, make a well rounded life for yourself.

Code probably fulfills a need to do puzzles and keep the brain entertained, but the world is so much bigger, and computers aren't going to keep you happy in your old age.

Odd (1, Insightful)

LSD-OBS (183415) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713113)

So he's saying he doesn't like programmers who enjoy what they do? Interesting.

I've never known a *good* programmer who doesn't write code as a hobby.

Re:Odd (1)

jcr (53032) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713153)

So he's saying he doesn't like programmers who enjoy what they do? Interesting.

Yeah, cause if you enjoy it, it's not a JOB, right?

I've never known a *good* programmer who doesn't write code as a hobby.

I'll second that.

-jcr

an old parable (1)

toastar (573882) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713133)

I used to love to fish, I loved it so much that I opened a bait shop. But as the Bait shop became successful it took up more and more of my time. Until i was left with no time to go fishing.

He's absolutely right... (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713139)

from his POV.

If you're a senior dev with years of experience under your belt, perhaps yous hould do something else with your time off. If you're a green horn who should be getting a little jump start and some experience, that's a different story.

Uh huh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713143)

I agree with him on all 3 points

A coder is a bit like a ski instructor (4, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713147)

Work is the boring stuff. You're fixing tedious bugs in tedious applications dealing with tedious real world problems like the cover page of the new TPS report. It's like a ski instructor that have to deal with all the horribly inexperienced people doing things all wrong or at least it's nothing like cruising along freely yourself. Obviously after a long day on the job I understand that this person would just want to go home, eat a pizza and do something completely different. But I'd be concerned about the coder that didn't have any pet projects, any interest in coding outside work like a ski instructor that never just goes skiing. No deadlines, no pressure, no dealing with poor specs, annoying customers or superiors. If you don't ever tinker with anything under those conditions I really don't see you giving it your best during work hours either. I don't mean that you need to have a long list of "public" off-hours coding experience that can be validated and put on your CV, just as a personality treat.

Re:A coder is a bit like a ski instructor (1)

NoYob (1630681) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713311)

I used to hump ass at work, go home an code something that I wanted to do, although there were other things I wanted to do more. I would redesign things and do proof of concept stuff and all that. No one gave a shit. When I go on a job interview you know what folks ask? "What did you do on your job?" They don't care what you do in your off-hours: they want to know what your job was.

Looking back at all that time I spent coding outside projects, I just can't help but regret it. I missed out on social time - not only girls but networking. All the guys that got the really well paying jobs weren't necessarily the most talented, but the ones that have the social network. They built their network by: playing D&D, playing soccer (football), going out with people from other professions, etc... I don't think any of them coded outside of work. Many times, the next opportunity is from someone who is not in IT. That accountant you're playing tennis with brings up the fact that his company is looking for a guy to write some code to do something. He's not sure, but he has his boss give you a call. Notice there's nothing there about recruiters, sending resumes to the black holes of: Monster, Computer Jobs, Career Builder, Dice, etc...

Ted Dziuba Doesn't Code In His Free Time... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713159)

And that's why we *never* heard of him before, and *never* will again...

So, I checked out this startup of his. (2, Interesting)

jcr (53032) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713177)

I hope they go public so I can short their stock. It's not very often that you get such a clear sell signal.

-jcr

Pffft (5, Funny)

Korey Kaczor (1345661) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713191)

You want to know how I learned Haskell? By doing project euler problems... DRUNK. See, this guy is all hoity-toity about going to the bar on weekends.... I bring the bar to ME, then I go out into the trenches, a little bit of beer, and solve those project euler problems after 5 beers minimum.

Nothing like a 12 pack and a functional, correctly solved project euler problem to separate the men from the boys.

So the man doesn't enjoy his work. (1)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713203)

Most people don't. So what?

Spare What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713227)

If I'm not eating or sleeping, I'm coding, but don't let that imply I have any spare time.

Scrabble (4, Funny)

Linker3000 (626634) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713253)

He probably spends most of his spare time writing to the makers of Scrabble trying to persuade them that surnames should be allowed as legitimate words.

I just registered at Project Euler (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29713261)

Let's see if it helps me drop out of college and commit suicide for feeling like a failure.

Duh (0, Troll)

KneelBeforeZod (1527235) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713269)

Programming is a trade skill, not art.

that's business (2, Interesting)

jipn4 (1367823) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713289)

Well, he is right: to succeed in business, you generally don't need to be particularly innovative or high-tech. Hiring average programmers that are easy to work with is probably a better business decision than hiring difficult top-notch nerds. But why go into high tech at all then? If you aren't fascinated by technology and just view the whole thing as a business, you might as well make your money with toilet paper or hamburgers.

Working 9 to 5 won't cut it (0)

dirkdodgers (1642627) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713339)

I have no idea who you are, and as far as I can tell you don't have a privileged opinion, so I'm going to treat your blog post like any other post on slashdot.

The problem here isn't not coding when you're not working. The problem isn't that you don't spend your weekends learning Haskell when your job has nothing to do with Haskell. I doubt an employer has ever raised such an expectation. You seem to be setting this up as a straw man, but what you seem to be reacting against is the desire of employers to hire, retain, and reward employees who have a willingness to go above and beyond the call of duty.

I don't know how smart or valuable you think you are, but considering I've never heard of you, and your post made it to Slashdot by way of your personal blog, you're probably not as unique and special as you think you are. If you aren't willing to go the extra mile, especially in this job market, there is a line of 10 guys behind you who are, and who are probably just as intelligent, and who will be grateful for the opportunity.

You're welcome to be a 9 to 5 guy, and you're welcome to blog about it, but please drop this pretense that you are entitled to be, or are a better employee for it.

riveting tale, chap. (1)

TedCheshireAcad (311748) | more than 4 years ago | (#29713369)

Man, I dug up my Slashdot account just so I could one-up the "coolstorybro" tag.
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