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HTC Dragging Feet On GPL Source Release For "Hero" Phone

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 4 years ago | from the something-about-defecating-where-you-eat dept.

Communications 181

Squiff writes to mention that despite being based on the Open Handset Alliance's Android platform and using several open source components, HTC are effectively refusing to release the source for the GPL parts of their "Hero" Phone code, saying that they are "waiting for their developers to provide it." It has been called an "object of lust," it's beating the iPhone for awards, and it seems to be the first Android phone that really is "the phone to have," to hear some people tell it. It has also just become available in the US after a June release in Europe.

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iPhone killer? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29771537)

Where have we heard that before!?!?

Wake me when it has any applications worth using, or an interface that doesn't suck.

Re:iPhone killer? (1, Redundant)

Philip K Dickhead (906971) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771849)

HEY!

HTC has feet! I feel they are "more human", already!

iPhone vs PalmPre vs HTC Hero = HTC winner (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772241)

I've had all three phones - Had the original iPhone for 2 years and it's nice, but the plans (esp for the 3G version) are expensive - $110 USD /month. The Palm Pre I ditched after a month - damn keyboard is sooo tiny - I couldn't type on it, and made lots of more typos than on the IPhone. Palm re only had about 50 apps.
HTC Hero has around 9,000 apps vs Apples 70,000, but the HTC is much more customizable, sounds better, and it significantly cheaper $70 USD /month. HTC battery lasts about 20% less than the original iPhones. I suspect the 3G iPhone has a comparable battery life.

I'v now completely switched to the HTC Hero, and I really like it

Re:iPhone killer? (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771863)

Wake me up when the iPhone has the same.

Re:iPhone killer? (1)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772171)

*prod*

*dumps cold water on you*

wake up and smell the roses, you can't build an iPhone killer until you acknowledge what the platform has.

Re:iPhone killer? (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772707)

Crap I don't want?

Re:iPhone killer? (1)

Fulcrum of Evil (560260) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773343)

wouldn't be much of a killer app if it did.

Re:iPhone killer? (1)

noundi (1044080) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772767)

Wake me up when the iPhone has the same.

Wake me up when the iPhone has one of the above.

Re:iPhone killer? (2, Informative)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771965)

iPhone killer?

Where have we heard that before!?!?

Where have you heard that here? I don't see anyone calling the Hero an "iPhone killer". Looks more like an "iPhone competitor".

Re:iPhone killer? (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772037)

that's because the iphone wasn't killer in the first place.

Re:iPhone killer? (3, Funny)

Verdatum (1257828) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772107)

"Say you want iphone to be killer in the first place. There's an app for that."

Re:iPhone killer? (1)

migla (1099771) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772541)

My bet for an iPhone killer: N900

And I don't mean it will kill it outright, but it is the poison pill of free software that will start the snowball rolling in the mainstream about what is to be expected of mobile computing in the near future. (my prediction)

(Disclaimer: Fuck Nokia, fuck Finland, Fuck Sweden (just to be on the safe side), Fuck capitalism, Long live Freedom!)

Re:iPhone killer? (1)

erikina (1112587) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773305)

(Disclaimer: Fuck Nokia, fuck Finland, Fuck Sweden (just to be on the safe side), Fuck capitalism, Long live Freedom!)

I believe this is the first disclaimer that I've read that's actually changed my mind on the point.

Nice excuse (4, Insightful)

dissy (172727) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771551)

Phone code, citing that they are "waiting for their developers to provide it."

Too bad that doesn't work.

"Yes your honor, I downloaded all of that music, but I emailed the artists asking how I could send them money, and are just waiting on them to license it to me properly!"

Not exactly fitting I know, but still.

Every other closed source shop has to hold off on release of their product until all licensing issues are taken care of (at least if they don't want to be taken to court.) This license is no different.

Re:Nice excuse (1)

hydroponx (1616401) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772329)

Personally, I'm pretty happy with my HTC Hero, the only lag I see is with keyboard rotation. Just my .02c since owning one.....

Re:Nice excuse (1)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772789)

Too bad that doesn't work.

Maybe not in this case, but what about if a company outsourced phone manufacturing? The external company would be the ones making the copies by preinstalling the software onto the phones, and they would be fulfilling the terms of the GPL by providing the source to the phone company. At this point, the phone company haven't made any copies, they have essentially just bought a shipment of goods. What compels them to be bound by the terms of the GPL? Don't you actually have to make copies to be bound by its terms?

Re:Nice excuse (1)

SydShamino (547793) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772965)

What compels them to be bound by the terms of the GPL? Don't you actually have to make copies to be bound by its terms?

From the GPL version 3:

To “convey” a work means any kind of propagation that enables other parties to make or receive copies.

Providing the finished phone to a consumer conveys a binary copy to them. They are entitled to source from the conveyor.

Re:Nice excuse (1)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773225)

So... the developer has to release his code before he develops it to license something under GPL? No.

[quote]Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,[/quote]

I'm not too up on GPL, but reading the v2 license what's to stop someone from including an offer for the source valid for at least three years, and then dragging their feet for a year or two on delivering it?

Re:Nice excuse (3, Insightful)

noidentity (188756) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773307)

"Yes, your honor, we had the source code to give to the compiler to produce the binaries, but we couldn't give the source code to the user because we weren't done with it yet."

I emailed them... (2, Informative)

brainiac ghost1991 (853936) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771553)

I sent a message to HTC and got this response:

Dear Sir, I have sent a communication to our head office to have this source code released on the developer website. It will be available soon at developer.htc.com. We will work to release this as soon as possible. Best Regards, HTC Europe Customer Care

However, this isn't really good enough. Let's hope that the combined might of slashdot will be able to sort it out!

Re:I emailed them... (5, Funny)

Minwee (522556) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771683)

That's funny, I received a similar if slightly longer email from HTC.

PERMIT ME TO INFORM YOU OF MY DESIRE OF GOING INTO PROGRAMMING WITH YOU. I GOT YOUR NAME AND CONTACT FROM THE TOGOLESE FREE SOFTWARE FOUNDATION. I PRAYED OVER IT AND SELECTED YOUR NAME AMONG OTHER NAMES DUE TO IT'S ESTEEMING NATURE AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS GIVEN TO ME AS A REPUTABLE AND TRUST WORTHY PERSON I CAN SHARE SOURCE CODE WITH AND BY THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS I MUST NOT HESITATE TO CONFIDE IN YOU FOR THIS SIMPLE AND SINCERE BUSINESS.

I AM AITCH TEE SEE, THE ONLY CHILD OF LATE MR AND MRS TEE SEE. MY FATHER WAS A VERY WEALTHY TELEPHONE MERCHANT BASED IN TAIWAN...

It went on for a while, but finally Mr. Tee See got to the point about source code:

THE SOURCE CODE IS CONTAINED IN A SEALED TRUNK BOX, IT WAS REGISTERED AND DECLEARED AS CONTAINING HERO SANDWICHES, SO EVEN AS I AM WRITEING YOU NOW THE SECURITY AND IT'S AGENTS ARE NOT AWARE OF THE CONTENTS CONTAINED AS SOURCE CODE FOR THE HERO PHONE. LET ME ASURE YOU THAT THIS TRANSACTION IS 100% HITCH AND FRISK FREE.BASED ON YOUR ACCEPTING TO HELP ME I WILL BE GIVING YOU A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF PERCENTGE FOR YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN THIS AND THIS WILL BE DISCUS UPON YOUR RESPONCE TO MY MAIL.

I have been reading over the terms of the GPL and this all seems like everything is legal, but a week later I'm still no closer to getting that trunk full of source code. Every time Mr. Tee See emails me there's some hitch or another -- First the location of the trunk was encrypted so I had to FTP him a copy of GPG, then he needed SRPMs for OpenOffice.Org so he could clear up some kind of red tape, and now he wants me to copy all of /usr/src from FreeBSD on a web server for him.

It's all very frustrating, but I'm convinced that Aitch Tee See is honest in his desire to get me the source code for the Hero. I will update you all when I finally receive it.

I sent them a dozen roses and said "please..." (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772007)

HTC knows that random email requests from $random_slashdotter can be safely ignored. Who is it that administers the GPL? The FSF? HTC needs to get a letter from a real lawyer with a known corporate identity. Until then, they will just keep stalling (stalling Stallman? Hahhaa ha ha...)

Re:I sent them a dozen roses and said "please..." (1)

sofar (317980) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773071)

Who is it that administers the GPL?

In this case: The person who legally obtained a copy of the binary code.

This means that every person who has obtained binary code but not source, can seek injunction from the distributor through a court of law. They're the ones that can initiate legal relief against HTC.

Quite often in GPL cases, someone who _owns_ copyright in said code, will purchase a device with said binary code, since as a copyright holder, they can demonstrate merit (a violation of a license means copyright applies, and the copyright holder can then sue for copyright violation). Without a copyright holder, a licensee can still sue for his/her rights under the license, but this hasn't been proven in court as far as I know.

Although that last is a win-win (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29773199)

Suing for your rights under the license either wins you the GPL code and/or recompense, or it falls down and the validity of an EULA is even more shaky.

Re:I sent them a dozen roses and said "please..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29773407)

Hmm, sounds like somebody who bought the phone should make a formal request to Sprint, wait a month for non-response and file suit... same with whatever carriers are selling the phone in EU.

Kill them! (1)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771555)

HTC is the Sony of mobile phones. Cool features, but crap quality.

If they're not willing to share their (OUR) source, I wouldn't be at all upset if they got the legal bat to the side of their corporate head.

Re:Kill them! (2, Insightful)

ZERO1ZERO (948669) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771595)

LOL. Your username is apt. Sony also do mobiles, as Sony Ericsson, who coincidentally have a contract whereby HTV make some of their phones, including the high end, but dissappointing Sony X1.

Re:Kill them! (2, Funny)

natehoy (1608657) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771685)

Well, I did have a friend who owns a Lexus tell me, "Lexus is really the Cadillac of the automotive world". With a completely straight face (on their part, then a briefly befuddled one when I couldn't help burst out laughing).

In his defense, he did laugh along with me when he realized how silly it sounded.

I guess "HTC is the Jaguar of mobile phones" would work better.

Re:Kill them! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772015)

Lexus is teh gay.

Re:Kill them! (1)

hardburn (141468) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772521)

I could personally say that with a straight face, but only because Cadillac hasn't been the Cadillac of cars in decades.

Re:Kill them! (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771679)

What are Sony phones of the mobile phones?

Re:Kill them! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29771861)

HTC is the Sony of mobile phones. Cool features, but crap quality.

Sorry, but I consider my trusty G1 to be of fairly nifty quality, if I do say so myself.

And comparing HTC to Sony? When did HTC start installing rootkits when you plug their phones into computers? When did they collude with others to strongarm a proprietary, incompatible "standard" into the market (no, their goofy USBext cable doesn't count, as that's perfectly compatible with mini-USB cables)? Do they routinely treat their customers like criminals?

Re:Kill them! (2, Insightful)

WaywardGeek (1480513) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772967)

I'm feeling a bit poor, but if I weren't I'd consider dumping my G1 and forking over $550 for an unlocked Hero. The major draw: a freaking headphone jack.

Re:Kill them! (1)

PitaBred (632671) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773109)

"Nifty" quality? Is that somewhere below "r0x0r5" and a bit above "meh"?

Re:Kill them! (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772063)

I think that's true of all phones, not just HTC.

Re:Kill them! (2, Informative)

StayFrosty (1521445) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773303)

I would be inclined to disagree. I know this is all anecdotal but I own an HTC Vogue (aka HTC Touch.) The hardware is terrific but the software (WM) leaves a lot to be desired. A few months back I was standing on the balcony of my second story apartment when my phone rang. I pulled the phone from my pocket, but it bumped in to the rail on the way out. The phone fell at least 20 feet and landed on the concrete sidewalk below. I went downstairs expecting the phone to be shattered in pieces. I was not disappointed. The battery and the phone were laying a few feet apart, the back cover was about 5 feet away and the stylus was hanging out of the main body of the phone. I put the battery back in, replaced the back cover, pressed the power button and to my amazement the phone turned on. Everything, including the touchscreen, continue to work to this day as if nothing had ever happened. The only other phone I have seen that can take that kind of abuse are the old Nokia's that we all fondly remember.

Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (4, Insightful)

sbrown123 (229895) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771649)

The Hero is nice and all but, like other Android phones, it doesn't have the processing power. The Acer A1 looks like it will be coming with a Qualcomm Snapdragon 1GHz processor and Android 1.6. Now if it would just be carried by someone other than T-Mobile in the states I would be happy.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29771689)

Buy an unlocked phone dumb fucking American hick so you can listen to more of your birther bullshit.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29771755)

Americans aren't stupid enough to pay for both the phone AND the service.

BTW - America invented the mobile phone (dont give me stories about radiophones in Canada or Europe) and now we produce the best mobile phone on the planet - the iPhone. It must really tick you guys off since all we ever heard was how European and Asian phones were "superior".

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (1)

bertoelcon (1557907) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771777)

It must really tick you guys off since all we ever heard was how European and Asian phones were "superior".

The Japanese phones are better but only because they have a network to support them.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29771797)

BTW - America invented the mobile phone

Cool. The heirs or Mr. (or Mrs.) America must all be filthy rich then.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29771827)

Pretty much

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29771877)

The iPhone? You mean the phone that's powered by a chip designed by the British firm ARM? The same British firm who's chip designs are the basis of the chips used in almost every mobile phone around? LOL American hicks.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772033)

A chip is not a phone. Also the design of the chips is being taken over by Apple because ARM's design is so bad. Don't believe me? Google it.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772075)

OH NOES!!!

He called us "American Hicks"
Whatever shall we do? I don't know if we can stand up to an insult like that. So well through out, so biting, so pathetic!!!

LOL..come back with a real insult when you are ready to hang with the big boys. Until then, go back to wishing you were living in the US and not just being dominated by Us.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771893)

It sure seems one American is dumb enough to think he is getting a phone for free.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (0, Offtopic)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771911)

The iPhone is probably the WORST modern cell phone on the planet. Hay guys we just got MMS!

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772077)

Thats just proves you dont have one

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (1)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772209)

Most people don't have one, that's not something to be ashamed about. Owning an iPhone doesn't make a person any better than anyone else. Nor does anonymously posting random bullshit.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772877)

Most people don't have one, that's something to be proud about. Owning an iPhone makes a person worse than everyone else. So does anonymously posting random bullshit.

Fixed it brother.

Disclaimer: This is anonymous, but not bullshit.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29771929)

Not to disagree or anything, but the iPhone is certainly *not* the "best mobile phone on the planet". It may be a stunning smartphone, but when it comes to certain (standard) mobile phone functions it's below-par. It may well be superior to the standard phones that the US is used to, and it is superior in a few certain areas compared to most other phones. It is not, however, the best all-round phone - there are plenty of other phones that can just as justifiably claim that depending on what features you choose as your criteria.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (1)

wimg (300673) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772053)

Funny that the first citywide mobile phone was introduced in Japan (1979) and Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden in 1981. US followed 2 years later. And I'm not even talking about 2G, G3, G3+ and G4 standards, where the gap is even bigger.
Oh and you probably think Nokia is an American company... and T-Mobile probably is American in your mind too ?
Also noteworthy : the first American company on the list of largest mobile phone networks is at #13.

Wake up and look outside... there's more to see outside the US than inside !

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772357)

T-Mobile is German not American. Nokia sucks and is dying along with Symbian.

Just face it. The iPhone is the best mobile phone right now. It has revolutionized everything. Try waking out and going to visit Asia. You will see iphones everywhere now.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (1, Funny)

wimg (300673) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773047)

Read and weep, Apple geek : http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/173601/symbian_and_android_to_lead_mobile_os_market_in_2012.html
And no, that's not an opinion story, it's a Gartner report.

The iPhones will end up in the bin as quickly as they were bought...

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772415)

The 3GS might be. The previous two versions were missing features that all the others had had for several years. But it looks pretty so that's a bonus.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (1)

Rapha222 (1648549) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773063)

Ok,
By this way, if most parts of the things invented in the last 4000 years come from Europe or western Asia, like matematics, philosophy or handwriting, we (Europeans and Asians) will be the best in ALL of these domains, forever ?
And, besides Apple, what big mobile phone companys remains in the U.S.A ? Motorola ? What else ?
Oh, one more thing, Apple doesn't really created the usable smartphone, it just re-invent advertisement.
IPhone isn't a cheap device, if you put the same budget in a Nokia, Samsung or HTC you will get the same manufacturing quality, and it was always been right.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (1)

hardburn (141468) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772601)

There was this time, before Bush was even President, that I agreed with most criticism of the US from across the pond. But then it slowly got more inflammatory and silly, and now it sounds almost as bad to me as the teabaggers.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (1)

Orange Crush (934731) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773405)

Better be sure it supports your carrier's data frequencies. It'd suck paying full price for a 3G phone unable to actually connect to a 3G network.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (1)

citylivin (1250770) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771831)

After trying to get linux updates for an acer aspire one netbook that out of the box did not work, trying to find fourms and talking to brain dead tech support, i would never buy another device from them. They had absolutely zero after sale support for linux on that aspire. My friend who purchased it, traded it in for a windows machine. They seem to have a forum now, just not 6 months or so after the device came out? Weird and lame!

not enough processing power (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772699)

are you trying to build a beowolf cluster of those??

Samsung Moment (2, Interesting)

Damage Ctrl (1097303) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772803)

The Samsung Moment [phandroid.com] looks promising. It's coming to Sprint on Nov. 1 and has an 800 MHz processor.

Re:Waiting for the Acer A1 phone (2, Informative)

Muggy7 (1526493) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773425)

My Hero used to lag every now and then as though the processor was struggling, now entirely fixed after upgrading the ROM to the latest from HTC. I think most of the reviews out there were based on early laggy version of the Hero software.

Definition of lust? (1)

codepunk (167897) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771743)

FTA: Going into the review, we desperately wanted to love this phone, but given the combination of a few poor hardware choices and an OS which outclasses the device it runs on, we can only recommend that you enter at your own risk.

That sounds completely different then my definition of lust.

Re:Definition of lust? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29771921)

It's lust. You get excited by the idea of something, knowing the real thing is actually bad for you, and will be shallow and unfulfilling if you really get your hands on it.

Re:Definition of lust? (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772755)

Have you been to a whore house?

Bitch-slap the marketing department please (1)

schnikies79 (788746) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771763)

With a name like "hero", you know it's going to suck.

Re:Bitch-slap the marketing department please (2, Insightful)

insertwackynamehere (891357) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771809)

Hey now what about Snow Crash?

Re:Bitch-slap the marketing department please (1)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773175)

Hiro Protagonist would like to have a word with you.

So what? The GPL is a copyright license (-1, Troll)

bonch (38532) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771799)

Slashdot is so opposed to copyrights all the time, but then a GPL article comes up, and suddenly they're in favor of them again. The GPL is a copyright license that, according to the FSF website, "assures copyright over the software."

You can't be opposed to copyrights all the time and encouraging piracy but then turn around and bash people for violating your precious GPL copyright license. Choose a position and stick with it.

Re:So what? The GPL is a copyright license (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772027)

Fail. The point of the GPL is to use copyright to promote freedom until such time as copyright no longer prevents that freedom. Learn your history before commenting in future.

Why does this remind me of the Hudsucker Proxy? (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772593)

"The point of the GPL is to use copyright to promote freedom until such time as copyright no longer prevents that freedom."

AMY
Norville Barnes, you don't know a thing about that woman! You don't know who she really is! And only a numbskull thinks he knows things about things he knows nothing about!

later

MOSES
"An' only some kind a knucklehead thinks she knows things 'bout things she, uh -- when she don't, uh -- How'd that go?"

Re:So what? The GPL is a copyright license (1)

init100 (915886) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773003)

Bonch is either a silly troll, or extremely stupid. He seems to think that Slashdot is one guy, or maybe two (him and everyone else). He regularly accuses the Slashdot crowd of hypocrisy without even contemplating the possibility that different subsets of the Slashdot crowd reads and comments different articles, and has wildly varying opinions.

Move along, nothing to see here.

Re:So what? The GPL is a copyright license (4, Insightful)

zn0k (1082797) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772045)

Slashdot, despite persistent rumors to the contrary, has more than one person commenting on articles. While not scientifically established as fact, it seems likely that those separate entities could have diverging opinion on copyright.

Re:So what? The GPL is a copyright license (2, Informative)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772229)

I disagree.

Re:So what? The GPL is a copyright license (1)

init100 (915886) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773019)

Are you a troll, or are you just extremely stupid?

Re:So what? The GPL is a copyright license (1)

agnosticnixie (1481609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773441)

Yes

It'll continue... (5, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771851)

...until one of the copyright holders (you know, the ones with standing to sue) send a C&D and threaten to file for an injunction stopping all HTC Hero sales. The source code will be ready for download about 0.2 seconds later.

Ever tried to get the Linux source from CheckPoint (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29771883)

Have you ever tried to get the source for the Linux kernel from CheckPoint for their NGX/Splat firewall? They basically told me they don't do that. After some digging they have a very old version of source available but it is very old and not up to date so it is useless. I was trying to get it to help troubleshoot a driver problem.

Re:Ever tried to get the Linux source from CheckPo (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771919)

Report them to the FSF.

Re:Ever tried to get the Linux source from CheckPo (1)

harlows_monkeys (106428) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773301)

Report them to the FSF

The FSF lacks standing to enforce the Linux kernel license. Report them on the kernel list, so that the people who actually own the copyrights on the kernel, and therefore have standing to enforce the license, will see.

Perhaps they need a "discovery order" (1)

goffster (1104287) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771909)

I am sure someone would come up with it then.

Wrongish link (3, Informative)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771915)

It's actually page 4 [xda-developers.com] with the relevant posts

Is the HTC Hero already out? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29771927)

I though they only have to provide the source to those they provided the binary? Do they already sell the phone?

Re:Is the HTC Hero already out? (1)

brainiac ghost1991 (853936) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772137)

yes, they do, I have one sitting on my desk right next to me :)

Re:Is the HTC Hero already out? (1)

noundi (1044080) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772999)

I though they only have to provide the source to those they provided the binary? Do they already sell the phone?

That's right, and the second they release the source to the first person it's going to hit the net -- hard.

Motorola Cliq (1)

Nicolay77 (258497) | more than 4 years ago | (#29771997)

The upcoming Motorola Cliq seems way better than this one, specially (at least to me) because of the keyboard.

Object of Lust? (4, Informative)

Kagato (116051) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772117)

So I decided to RTFA on the "Object Of Lust" link. Here's the conclusion to the article:

"The Hero represents a valiant effort from HTC -- though unfortunately, the company appears to have bitten off more than its last-generation hardware can chew. If this build of Android were to be loaded atop the guts of a 3GS or Pre, the performance would likely be astounding, but fused with the two-year old architecture of previous devices, it's mostly disappointing. We're not saying this isn't the best build of Android on the market -- we think it is. What we are saying is that this build is a bit too much for a device like the Hero to handle, and that makes for an uneven, sometimes frustrating experience. Going into the review, we desperately wanted to love this phone, but given the combination of a few poor hardware choices and an OS which outclasses the device it runs on, we can only recommend that you enter at your own risk. HTC has an explosive entry in the smartphone category with what its done on the software side... now it just needs the hardware to match."

I think they may be make the Hero out to be a bit more than it really is.

Re:Object of Lust? (4, Insightful)

painandgreed (692585) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772185)

Well, just because they're an 'object of lust' doesn't mean they'll be a good lay, or that you'll ever want to see them again after the first night.

PLEASE STOP (5, Funny)

DMiax (915735) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773037)

I am incredibly annoyed at people that RTFA and then post entire paragraphs in hope they get modded "Informative".

IT IS AN ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOR

for many reasons:
1. not RTFAing is not lazyness, it's a principle. The parent did put a disclaimer ,but so many trick us into readng taboo content that it get very very disciminatory against thos of us with moral values.
2. it may spawn an utterly informed thread, a situation to be avoided at all costs.
3. in the same way it may bring to an end a highly speculative thread - that is the very essence of slashdot - just because it does not agree with the so-called "facts".
4. the points 2 and 3 may affect other threads due to people inadvertently read the quote and reproducing it in other posts.

On the other hand we appreciate and encourage your karma-whoring attempt, you will receive your mod points soon :)

Re:Object of Lust? (1)

Squiff (1658137) | more than 4 years ago | (#29773443)

That was before the recent software upgrade which fixed a lot of bugs and made the interface a great deal more responsive. I have one of these phones and it's excellent.

At least they are working on it now... unlike... (1)

0x537461746943 (781157) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772153)

I tried for a month or so to get the latest source for the Linux kernel that Checkpoint distributes with their NGX/Splat product but all I got was statements that they don't do that. After some research and digging on their site I found a very old version that they didn't even know about. Since they do not update it. It is useless. I was trying to help diagnose an issue that I was sure was a driver related problem.

Re:At least they are working on it now... unlike.. (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772313)

So go report them to the FSF, or whoever else you can. If you know of anyone with standing to sue, someone with their code in the kernel, get them to sue.

Who agreed to the license (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772359)

Sounds like they outsourced their development to a third party. That third party is who agreed to the GPL and who is obligated to release the appropriate source.

All they need do is name that third party and they're off the hook.

Re:Who agreed to the license (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772399)

Considering that HTC is the one doing the distribution this is not the case.

Another way to pressure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772473)

Ask for a refund of the phone. You are entitled to a phone that does not have illegally obtained software on it. By failing to comply with the license agreements, the phone is illegal.

That's the way I'd do it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29772659)

Since without my code being on it (I'll get to a sneaky one there later though), I don't have any standing.

However, when the criminal laws come out that allow governments to persue copyright issues without the owner paying, this may well change.

Now, how about someone does a SCO.

"I need to look at ALL your code because I've released some GPL code and your product may have it"?

Petition & Email HTC (1)

pdragon04 (801577) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772627)

Someone on the xda-developers forums started a petition here

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/herokernel/signatures-1.html

You can also go to htc.com and fill out the Contact Us form with the contents of the petition as several people have already done.

More people doing the latter would probably generate more concern at HTC if their customer service department is getting flooded with them.

Its being imported, right? Stop them at the border (1)

dbc (135354) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772671)

If someone with clout finds out that their IP is being imported without a license, the FBI raids a dock-side warehouse in Los Angeles. Good luck getting their attention for this one. But still, somebody with standing and who cares enough could be filing the paperwork. In this case, because physical goods are involved, there is a pressure point with the manufacturer.

This should be stated in stronger terms (1)

craighansen (744648) | more than 4 years ago | (#29772705)

Rather than complaining that HTC is "dragging their feet on GPL source release," one could instead be asserting that HTC is using "unlicensed, pirated software with possible security problems." ....Use the source, Luke.
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