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LHC Successfully Cools To 1.9K In Lead-Up To Restart

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the say-your-goodbyes-folks,-the-end-is-nigh dept.

News 177

Smelly Jeffrey writes "The BBC is reporting that the LHC has had all eight of its sectors cooled to 1.9 Kelvin. Their tagline is that it is now 'colder than deep space,' referring to the CMB. LHC engineers have spent nearly $40,000,000 USD on a new system to prevent the 'quench' condition that caused the LHC to be down for warming, repairs, and re-cooling over the last year. The LHC is now cold enough to begin colliding particles in search of the Higgs Boson. High power collisions won't be started until late December, or perhaps early January. However, a low-power beam through parts of the collider could be tested as early as next week!"

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177 comments

Cool! (4, Funny)

Eric Smith (4379) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774209)

Time for my friends and I to throw yet another end-of-the-world party!

Re:Cool! (3, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774251)

Where's my goddamned time machine? Hey! Dr. John Bell! Would you quit yer damn' canoodling with 23rd century freemasons, and help me find the damn time machine? I left my electron microscope in the alternate omniverse, and can't see the damn time machine anymore!

Hurry, man! I have some more magnets to go break in Switzewhen.

Re:Cool! (2, Informative)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774497)

Don't worry you've got some time. They probably won't reach full power until sometime in late 2012...

Re:Cool! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775175)

December 14 according to my math, +/- 72 hrs.

Re:Cool! (2, Funny)

pdxp (1213906) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774973)

This is /. and you have friends? You must be one of those cool people I keep hearing about.

If it's not in operation... (1)

Valdrax (32670) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774217)

Then why are they spending all the energy to cool the things two months before it's needed?

I don't mean this as a sarcastic comment. I'm genuinely curious.

Never mind. Missed the obvious. (2, Insightful)

Valdrax (32670) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774239)

They're doing low-power test runs. I managed in my brilliance not to notice either that paragraph in the article or the tagline at the end of the summary. /hangs head in shame.

Re:If it's not in operation... (2, Insightful)

StaticEngine (135635) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774267)

If they do find the Higgs in January, they want to have a LOT of jello shots on hand.

Re:If it's not in operation... (1)

PDX (412820) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774821)

The super cooled helium is going to first cool the German dark beer then it will loop around to the light imported ales where it will finally cool the disco ball to 1.9 kelvin. Thus we will have the coolest party in the known universe.

At your next hadronic party (1)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775407)

The beer cans will have labels showing coils going completely around them; when you've had them chilling on liquid helium long enough, the coils will turn blue, and that's when you'll know your beer is as cold as the interior of the Large Hadron Collider.

Re:If it's not in operation... (1)

flydude18 (839328) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774277)

Even the summary says that test runs will start soon. It's only the "high power collisions" that will wait until December, at which time the LHC will be fully operational.

Re:If it's not in operation... (5, Funny)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774419)

Then why are they spending all the energy to cool the things two months before it's needed?

You mean they're spending like there's no tomorrow? Hmmmm.
       

Re:If it's not in operation... (1)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774519)

I'm crossing my fingers for some newspaper to unthinkingly use the "black hole" analogy to describe the glut of spending..

Re:If it's not in operation... (2, Insightful)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774775)

I'm crossing my fingers for some newspaper to unthinkingly use the "black hole" analogy to describe the glut of spending..

At least with a black hole, if you're smart enough to stay away from the event horizon you'll be OK. We, on the other hand, are surely screwed.

Re:If it's not in operation... (4, Insightful)

Goaway (82658) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774637)

Because cooling a 27 kilometer long object to 1.9 K takes a lot of time. You can't just keep heating it up and cooling it back down again. You cool it down once, and keep it cooled permanently.

Part of the reason this whole thing took so long in the first place was that it had to be heated up and cooled down again.

Re:If it's not in operation... (1)

igny (716218) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774777)

You cool it down once, and keep it cooled permanently.

Permanently is a relative term. Time flies differently near black holes.

Re:If it's not in operation... (1)

GreekLawyer (1542713) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775937)

Because cooling a 27 kilometer long object to 1.9 K takes a lot of time. You can't just keep heating it up and cooling it back down again. You cool it down once, and keep it cooled permanently.

Part of the reason this whole thing took so long in the first place was that it had to be heated up and cooled down again.

If the disasters don't get these guys at CERN the electricity company will definitely get them!!

Re:If it's not in operation... (1)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774939)

Basically the thing doesn't work at all unless it's cooled. Once you get it cooled down you can start testing the various parts to make sure they work. Once you've done that you do an integrated, low power test where you circulate some particles and see if anything breaks. If not, you work your way up until you're at the designed power.

It all takes quite a while.

Re:If it's not in operation... (3, Interesting)

JonathanPerelmann (1412263) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775047)

because cooling down a 31km long ultra high vacuum apparatus isn't like making ice cubes. You need to go section by section, sealing it off, baking and pumping it to remove contaminates, then slowly cooling it to temperature. My groups apparatus takes up only half of a room and it took us weeks to bake and bring to temperature.

death! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774221)

yay blackhole'd death

40 MILLION USD (-1, Flamebait)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774243)

When every government balance sheet is dripping red, why are we doing this again ?

Yes, I know, -1 Flamebait here I come.

Re:40 MILLION USD (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774273)

When every government balance sheet is dripping red, why are we doing this again ?

Your not. . . the LHC is localed in Geneva, and was built by the European Organization for Nuclear Research. The monetary numbers were just converted to USD because the article is written/targeted to a US audience.

*Knock Knock* Hi, its the rest of the world here at your door, we'd love for you to come out and visit sometime!

Re:40 MILLION USD (3, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774327)

the work done at LHC is about the only type of thing governments do that adds any value anyway.

Re:40 MILLION USD (2, Insightful)

GaratNW (978516) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775901)

Interesting.

Let's try a list!
- Roads.. maybe you don't use them?
- Well regulated skies so the plane you're landing in doesn't have an unexpected conjoining with another one taking off
- A nationwide electrical grid
- Required emergency care, regardless of ability to pay (that comes out of a similar source as medicare/medicaid - without it, no pay, no treatment.. got hit by a car walking down the street? No insurance? Tough luck, bub)
- Regulated banking sys...ok. bad example.

Government may do a lot wrong, but most people take for granted the stuff they do right, that they use every day. That's a small list, but not anywhere near complete. Almost every mass transit system in the US wouldn't exist if not for public funds, and often public involvement in their yearly operations.

Mind you, most of the actual politicians need their brains washed out with lye, and lobbyists should be sequestered 20,000 leauges under the sea, and there's billions in waste every year, but if not for those governments, I doubt you'd be online right now saying how little they do. LHC is one great example of where they really shine, it's true.

Re:40 MILLION USD (3, Funny)

Ortega-Starfire (930563) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774631)

>*Knock Knock* Hi, its the rest of the world here at your door, we'd love for you to come out and visit sometime!

But whenever we do, you guys tell us to go home! Is that because of our obsession for things that go boom, or some other issue?

Re:40 MILLION USD (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775145)

Is that because of our obsession for things that go boom, or some other issue?

Seriously, as he said: "we'd love for you to come out and visit sometime!"

Really, consider it some time ..

Re:40 MILLION USD (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775031)

Which is why I said "every government" - only on Slashdot does an AC get modded Informative for pointing out that the LHC is in Europe.

Actually... (1)

andersh (229403) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775101)

Actually "every government" is not having economic problems, unlike the US some European countries have come out of the recession.

Some Europeans countries are actually "in the black" with surpluses, and little or no unemployment. The US media is not very good at informing the public about the situation around the world.

Oh, and 40 million USD is not the real cost to European countries since it's obviously payed for in local currencies (Swiss Franc, Euros). The exchange rate inflates the numbers.

And it is a tiny amount for a continent with over 700 million people (twice that of the US) and a much bigger economy than the US! Even the EU has a larger GNP than the US, and the EU does not include all of Europe at all.

P.S. The project straddles the Swiss and French borders on the *outskirts* of Geneva (and quite a few kilometers).

Re:40 MILLION USD (4, Informative)

krlynch (158571) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775173)

Actually, WE (as in the US) have been one of the largest contributor countries, even though we aren't officially a part of the CERN treaty group. The US has nearly 1000 scientists involved in the various LHC experiments, and has directly contributed nearly $600M to the construction of the ATLAS and CMS experiments. Plus, it will contribute to construction of ALICE and LHCb, and many millions more in grants to US based research groups for operations and upgrades. And it has built two Tier 1 LHC computing centers (at Brookhaven and Fermilab), dozens of Tier 2 centers, and as well as a fully equipped remote operations center. So, I date say "yes", the US is slightly involved with this project....

Re:40 MILLION USD (2, Interesting)

troll8901 (1397145) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775579)

... ATLAS ... CMS ... ALICE ... LHCb ...

Woah, woah, that's a tad too many scientific buzzwords! I'm all dizzy around here!

Cue the LHC Rap [google.com] ...

Re:40 MILLION USD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775795)

Brookhaven will also be getting a new Advanced Proton Source (think high energy x-ray machine)... Work will be starting on it this year at Argonne. An APS is like a collider except instead of smashing two particles together, the particle stream is focused on a fixed object. Uses vary from looking at the structure of materials to seeing the spray pattern of an injector nozzle... very cool stuff. Learn more about Argonne's APS here http://www.aps.anl.gov/

Re:40 MILLION USD (5, Insightful)

Kratisto (1080113) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774373)

40 million is pretty cheap considering the US government doled out 600 billion in bailouts not long ago. Billion is the new million.

Re:40 MILLION USD (4, Funny)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774383)

When every government balance sheet is dripping red, why are we doing this again ?

Mini blackholes will suck up the deficits.
     

Re:40 MILLION USD (5, Insightful)

Korin43 (881732) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774623)

Government balance sheets aren't "in the red" due to a lack of money, it's due to a lack of restraint. "Oh hey let's attack a country.. Oh hey let's attack another.. Let's give money to the banks with the stupidest management.. Let's give people money to not grow food.. Let's give people money to buy new cars.." and then when the budget problems come up "If this spending bill doesn't pass, we have no choice but to shut down libraries and fire departments!"

Re:40 MILLION USD (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774943)

Other than you tactfully left out the word corruption, that's the best and most succinct description of the situation I've yet read.

In such a description you necessarily have to leave out things like leaders demonizing the people they are about to attack in order to keep themselves in power and so on (I'm protecting you from those awful sub-human evil fill_in_the blank, so you need me to stay in, and increase, my power), corporations that are now more powerful than all single countries and most coalitions of them and a few other things. But it's truly an inspiring and great beginning. Hope someone else reads it.

We're let these turkeys play us too long by far.

Re:40 MILLION USD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775231)

It's really sad...cause it's true.

Re:40 MILLION USD (5, Insightful)

evilviper (135110) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775665)

Government balance sheets aren't "in the red" due to a lack of money, it's due to a lack of restraint.

"Restraint" implies something desired, but totally unnecessary.

When you go deeply in debt paying for college, it's not a "lack of restraint" that put you in that bad situation, but an investment, which may or may not pay off.

So why is the government so roundly critized for similarly trying to get the education dollars remotely back up to where they were (per-capita) 30+ years ago?

I guess NASA represents a lack of restraint as well.
Roads, too. As well as all forms of public transit.

The government exists specifically to pay for all those things which we all find beneficial to society, and would be impractical to do individually, or otherwise piecemeal.

And even those areas of flagrant fraud and waste, while requiring a fix, won't come close to making up the national deficit. The bailout money, while significant this year, will barely be noticeable average over the decades between major bailouts, AND would presumably end up costing everyone far more money, if that money wasn't spent where and when it was needed.

It's only on /. that the rabid libertarian sentiment doesn't get you laughed out of the room. It's idiotic on it's face.

Re:40 MILLION USD (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775943)

How is it costing us LESS money to keep the banks afloat so that housing prices can stay artificially inflated, maintaining an artificial bubble at great expense? How is it costing us LESS to spend resources on WAR, which is not an investment but money tossed in to a blackhole never to be recovered? How is it costing us LESS to pay people NOT to do things? None of those things are an investment. They're all tossing money at buying ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and maintaining poorly run countries and businesses at great taxpayer expense.

Your rant set up a bunch of strawmen the GP post didn't even propose, then knocked them down leaving his original complaints completely unharmed. And you're calling his comments idiotic on their face? Then people mod you insightful? What the fuck? Is it opposite day around here?

Re:40 MILLION USD (2, Interesting)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774947)

It's been estimated that most of the world's economy is the result of basic quantum mechanics research. The money put into QM research has been an absolutely incredible investment. Perhaps they're hoping that it will continue to be so.

Re:40 MILLION USD (2, Interesting)

AnotherAnonymousUser (972204) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775001)

I'm actually very curious to know more about this - have you got a link, article, citation anything for further reading?

Re:40 MILLION USD (4, Informative)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775073)

I've seen various estimates, but Leon Lederman (Nobel prize winner in physics) discusses it in his book "The God Particle." I think it was even in a similar context - why spend so much money doing high energy physics?

Sorry it's not a link, but the book is well worth reading. It's about the history of particle physics research, from an inside perspective, culminating with a discussion of the Higgs boson.

Re:40 MILLION USD (1)

troll8901 (1397145) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775559)

Yes, I know, -1 Flamebait here I come.

You have great prediction powers, O Wise One!

When every government balance sheet is dripping red, why are we doing this again ?

You do realize USA spends more money per month, just to fund the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, compared to the entire cost of building the LHC over a decade, right?

Also, the physics/astronomy community benefits greatly from the success of LHC, and the worldwide scientific community as a whole also benefits. Now, who benefits from the wars?

I knew it! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774249)

"Related Stories
Science: The LHC, the Higgs Boson, and Fate 666 comments"

It's a sign, they're going to kill us all!

Better double-check... (5, Funny)

David Gould (4938) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774291)

Has the LHC destroyed the Earth yet?

NO [hasthelhcd...eearth.com]

Good. Carry on.

Re:Better double-check... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774455)

I, for one, welcome our black hole overlords!

Somone from the future will put a stop to it all (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774297)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/science/space/13lhc.html?_r=2

Re:Somone from the future will put a stop to it al (2, Funny)

spydum (828400) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774341)

I'll keep an eye out for Doc Brown and his Delorean

Wrong summary (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774343)

"LHC engineers have spent nearly $40,000,000 USD on a new system to prevent quenching condition that ..."

No,

  1. it is not to prevent quenching, it is to allow helium to escape properly. Superconductors will at some point in their life quench or lose superconductivity. This happens for various reasons though most are due to insufficient cooling, like the last case.

  2. Couldn't this say $40,000,000 USD (FORTY MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS) to be more dramatic?

Re:Wrong summary (5, Funny)

hezekiah957 (1219288) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774431)

2. Couldn't this say $40,000,000 USD (FORTY MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS) to be more dramatic?

It's European, not Nigerian.

Re:Wrong summary (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774555)

2. Couldn't this say $40,000,000 USD (FORTY MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS) *places pinky finger at corner of mouth* to be more dramatic?

Fixed that for you ;-)

Re:Wrong summary (4)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774853)

2. Couldn't this say $40,000,000 USD (FORTY MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS) to be more dramatic?

And couldn't they tell us the cost in euro? I mean, that's the unit in which the LHC is budgeted. Why convert into some volatile foreign currency? Let us know the actual figure, and if we live outside the eurozone then we'll convert into our own local currency by ourselves, thanks.

Re:Wrong summary (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775859)

Actually, CERN (and thus LHC) is under Swiss jurisdiction, so I'd assume the official budgetary unit is Swiss Francs.

Re:Wrong summary (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775775)

2. Couldn't this say $40,000,000 USD (FORTY MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS) to be more dramatic?

You'd prefer they imply the reader is innumerate?

Half-Life Reference In 3...2...1... (1)

Xin Jing (1587107) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774395)

They must know that this will cause a resonance cascade, even when the warnings indicate that the anti-mass spectrometer readings are dangerously high - yet at the last minute are deemed to be within acceptable limits.

Large Hardon Collider could corrupt civilisation (5, Funny)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774399)

The Large Hardon Collider [today.com] is designed to pump various types of hardon up to huge energies before banging them together. However, many concerned citizens without the personal experience or understanding of what hardons do worry at the idea of the large hardons being sucked deep into a black hole.

The device will push large, energised hardons through a ring repeatedly, faster and faster, as smoothly and tightly as possible, until they clash and spray matter in all directions. “It’s nothing that cosmic rays don’t do all the time all over the place,” reassured a particularly buff scientist. “It’s perfectly right and natural.”

Low-energy hardon physics and the temperature dependence of hardon production are well understood, as is the process of a hardon smoothly entering the nucleus. But some question what may happen at greater, hotter energies.

Church leaders have come out at the device. “They’re the same polarity!” said Pope Palpatine XVI. The Church worries that strange matter may recruit normal matter and turn it strange.

The Large Hardon Collider was to launch last September, but this has been delayed due to inexplicable and ill-timed failure to get a beam up. “I’m so sorry,” stammered a scientist, “this has never happened to us before.”

Re:Large Hardon Collider could corrupt civilisatio (0)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774413)

And also: Large Hadron Goatse Cookies [today.com] !

Ah, but don’t go home with your hadron
It will only drive you insane
You can’t shake it (or break it) with your Motown
You can’t melt it down in the rain.

Re:Large Hardon Collider could corrupt civilisatio (1)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774787)

pump various types of hardon up to huge energies before banging them together

I think there's a place in West Hollywood you can get that done for about $20.
(Bring a friend for 10% off.)

Re:Large Hardon Collider could corrupt civilisatio (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775109)

I'm dyslexic, and I don't get this.

Re:Large Hardon Collider could corrupt civilisatio (1)

troll8901 (1397145) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775619)

... pump...to huge energies before banging them together ... faster and faster, as smoothly and tightly as possible ... hardon smoothly entering ... greater, hotter energies ...

I feel strangely aroused...

... spray matter in all directions ...

Aahhhhhhhh!

Large Hardon Collider

All the previous reports that I've been reading, must have had the wrong spelling!

Low Profile (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774437)

I just think that this time around they keep a little low profile until it works fine

it has been said before (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774515)

Prepare for unforeseen consequences

Huge Waste of Taxpayer Dollars (-1, Troll)

isochroma (762833) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774747)

When millions are living on the streets, millions more losing their homes, why oh why are we spending money on crap like this? Disassemble and sell off the LHC, and give the money back to the People, who need the money for human needs.

Re:Huge Waste of Taxpayer Dollars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774781)

+1: Concern Troll

Re:Huge Waste of Taxpayer Dollars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774815)

Searching for how the universe works and why the world is as it is represents a search for purpose which is as intrinsic a human need as food or shelter.

Re:Huge Waste of Taxpayer Dollars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774831)

You're a waste of taxpayer dollars. Go pray for your food.

Re:Huge Waste of Taxpayer Dollars (5, Insightful)

ledow (319597) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774935)

Because the food those people eat is produced using fertilizers, steel structures, engines based on petroleum combustion, transit networks, irrigation systems, computers and, ultimately, a market for the food - all of which come about because of technological advances (computers wouldn't work today if we didn't know about quantum mechanics - modern PC's are affected by quantum-scale artefacts), most of which were funded by military investment (Internet, etc.) or academic institutions, designed and implemented by people that went to university to study something other than fertilizer, using mathematics from previously theoretical subjects that they found could apply to modern physics, using even vaster ranges of technology to achieve their goals.

Did you know that the Moon missions visibly pushed scientific advancement for *decades* before and after they occurred? Did you know that previous "waste of time", purely-theoretical, large-scale, cutting-edge technology now powers most of the world, the world's satellites, thus world communications, thus enable people to even *find* those people, let alone help them?

How about that computer you just posted this troll on? Have you any idea how many man-hours it takes to build that? Considering your attitude, I should take it back, leave those raw materials in the ground and give someone a job instead... that makes sense, no? Or how about you *think* for a second about where those people are going to get their houses, pharmaceuticals, food, warmth, clothing, how they'll be found and helped and their progress tracked by your government to ensure they show up as a statistic at least?

Eighty years ago, the highest-level scientific research of splitting the "unsplittable" atom helped discover and then (50 years ago) harness the most destructive force held by man, culled from the annals of scientific research and weaponry, and now makes it power most of your country, provide pharmaceuticals, medical scanners and countless other innovations. Now think what'll happen in another 80 years when the tech discovered, manufactured and researched based on the findings of the LHC hits your country.

Re:Huge Waste of Taxpayer Dollars (2, Insightful)

Z8 (1602647) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775401)

Now think what'll happen in another 80 years when the tech discovered, manufactured and researched based on the findings of the LHC hits your country.

You delivered your argument well, but you could say something similar about any scientific goal, for absolutely any amount of money. Will the LHC lead to practical technology in 80 years? You think so, but how plausible is that really and why? What if I think we should spend $20B to study the mating habits of snails and promise some huge breakthrough in 80 years, will you also think that's a good investment?

I don't know whether the LHC is worth it, so I don't necessarily disagree with you, but simply citing successful past sponsored work (and ignoring failures) isn't very convincing. Furthermore, it's of absolutely no help if we are deciding between two mutually exclusive scientific research projects.

Re:Huge Waste of Taxpayer Dollars (2, Insightful)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775547)

I wouldn't instantly dismiss spending $20B on studying mating habits of snails. Given that snails are very helpful to farmers, and given that farmers received 10 times that in aid ($258B) in a single year and the total market is about $1.5 trillion, spending a 10% of the given aid on studying how to produce better snails could provide significant returns in the long run.
If the study resulted in just a 0.1% increase in crop production, it would pay for itself in a single year!

Re:Huge Waste of Taxpayer Dollars (1)

ustolemyname (1301665) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775925)

Error one: 0.1% of 1.5 trillion is 1.5 billion Error two: Just because you produced 0.1% more crop doesn't mean you sold the extra food at the same price as all the other food. Increase in production != Increase in demand.

Re:Huge Waste of Taxpayer Dollars (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775565)

You attribute the internet to military, but the web began at CERN!

Re:Huge Waste of Taxpayer Dollars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775921)

I for one look forward to the LHC setting the scene for scientists to make a pill that gives my old fella a few more inches.

After you (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 4 years ago | (#29774937)

Unless you are at a library posting from a public computer you are hardly living your own words. It seems to me your own existance is substantially less valuable than the LHC, which at least has some potential for benefitting humanity.

Re:Huge Waste of Taxpayer Dollars (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775167)

Crap like this is truly more useful for people at large than the people who lives on the streets or would lose their homes.

Full power to the shields! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774767)

Let's hope the shields hold up against those pesky bosons from the future!

What? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29774773)

Hardon collider?
Higgs Bossom?

That article should go in idle.

colder than (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775065)

colder than my wife... /bitter -- oh so bitter

(better make sure to check "post anonymously")

1900 degrees ??!? (2, Funny)

pem (1013437) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775085)

LHC Successfully Cools To 1.9K In Lead-Up To Restart

Doesn't seem very cool to me, in any commonly used temperature scale!

Seen from space (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775209)

Could you detect the ring with thermal imaging from an orbiting satellite?

Re:Seen from space (1)

lmckayjo (532783) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775727)

I sure hope not. Can you imagine what the electric bill would be if the insulation was that poor? And of course just a short distance away would have to be a HUGE heat output from condensers or heat pipes taking all that heat away. My guess is that a high-res thermal imaging satellite could see the heat from the HVAC above, but never the cold areas below around the accelerator itself.

CIA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775281)

Time to activate the FNAL [fnal.gov] mole.

Almost there, but not quite. (4, Informative)

Animats (122034) | more than 4 years ago | (#29775765)

Actually, the whole system is getting close to 1.8K, but some magnets aren't quite down there yet. [web.cern.ch] About 2/3 of the ring has cyro authorization (cold enough to power up the magnets) but the magnets haven't been energized yet. All the magnets have to be powered up. Then comes low power beam testing and alignment. Then maybe they can do some science.

There are supposed to be two big fixes in place now. First, the quench protection system now covers not just the magnets, but the connections to them. (The basic idea is that if a superconducting magnet ceases to be superconductive at some hot spot (in which case all the energy in the magnet comes out as heat), the system dumps the energy into resistive loads, and heats up the entire magnet quickly to make it resistive, so that the energy is dumped throughout the magnet, not just at the hot spot. Last time, a hot spot developed at a welded splice. Second, the venting system for dealing with the gaseous helium released after a quench has been improved, with bigger rupture discs. Last time, the vents weren't big enough, and there was substantial damage to the cryogenic plumbing.

None of this has anything to do with the physics. It's all plumbing and DC power control.

The original design documents say a quench is supposed to be recoverable within three hours. That was rather optimistic.

Experiment scheduled for 12/21/2012? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29775863)

Let me guess, they'll do the experiment on December 21, 2012, right?

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