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No Dedicated Servers For CoD: Modern Warfare 2

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the might-want-to-think-this-over dept.

Networking 313

An anonymous reader writes "Infinity Ward's Robert Bowling (aka fourzerotwo), in an interview with BashandSlash.com on October 17th, announced that one of the mainstays of PC multiplayer gaming, dedicated servers, won't be in IW's upcoming sequel to Call of Duty 4. Instead, players will use the unknown 'IW Net' for matchmaking purposes. No dedicated servers means no player mods, no player maps, no organized competitive play, no clan servers, etc., and strips away what makes PC gaming different from console gaming. Many vocal gamers have canceled their pre-orders, and a petition to reverse this decision is already past 86,000 signatures."

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313 comments

Won't it ... ? (1)

ls671 (1122017) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805057)

Won't it raise their bandwidth costs and potentially cause bottlenecks ?

Well, I guess not if players aren't using it. Then, are they shooting themselves in the foot ?

Re:Won't it ... ? (2, Insightful)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805129)

Something tells me they want to use 'distributed power'for this. In other words... they want to use the customer bandwidth... And not invest in their own. But look at the bright side. With no possible way to team up with friends and clans on their servers I don't feel very much pressed to buy the game. Now, where is that piratebay-thingie.

Re:Won't it ... ? (1)

zwei2stein (782480) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805389)

Most likely, they made this decision so that they can use server-side copy protection (aka, Show me valid cd-key, bitch!), not unlike Starcraft2 removal of LAN gameplay in favor of battlenet, so expect centralized system. Otherwise, there is no point.

So, you will be out of luck with piratey thing unless piratey people take time to write their own servers.

Re:Won't it ... ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805485)

It's not the end of my world. The more wanker corporate business decisions seep into development of games, the more I couldn't care less.
And in turn, it makes me more motivated to invest time and interest in Open Source gaming. I think that's where the community can really go nuts. So many games are severely strangled by their publishers.

The publishers (people who pay for the development and want the mega bucks) are the weakest link.

Re:Won't it ... ? (0, Redundant)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805705)

After reading your comment I have to say that you are probably right and I was wrong. Now I probably still do the piratethingie because of the following reasons. I like games. I like that games give me a taste for 'true freedom' with things I could never do otherwise. Chances are pretty slim I would sign up to be the bitch that dies for his country in another country (lol) to shoot with really cool weapons at another son of a mother who has done absolutely nothing to piss me off. So games give me the opportunity to do that. Now let's take another example of a really big game that is going to hit the stores this week in Europe. Forza 3. Console game, no way to set up your own servers. But the team behind it realized that their game is a great success mostly due to the exceptional community of gamers backing it up. So they gave us in forza 3 the chance to still meet with friends, reserve slots for them on their own servers and just letting us do on the xbox what you would except on the pc for a racing game. No modding allowed, but you can easily organize a clan/club of enthusiasts. And even on the pc no-one wants modding or cheating abilities. We take forza very serious and will not stand up for cheaters. I think this is where MW2 goes wrong. We on the pc have come to expect modding and own servers for this genre. Why? Well... because it enhances the gaming-experience and therefore the value of such game. I don't see this preventing piracy though. Mw1 was a great game, nice singleplayer, albeit a bit short. But the people who pirate today often do so because they can only spend their hard earned dollar, pound, yen or euro once... You don't want to spend that on a lousy product that you know could have been so much better if only the devs would let you...

Re:Won't it ... ? (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805923)

uh, dedicated servers means they don't have to use their bandwidth, so I don't get where you're going about that.

Meanwhile, yes, this is when a game decision is so asinine that people have a reason to pirate. Again, brought to you by the same people who killed off LAN from Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2.

"better experience" = we're a bunch of greedy assholes and we want to use the phrase 'better experience' to rationalize our imaginary fight against piracy to shove DRM up your ass and prevent you from playing on the lan.

Re:Won't it ... ? (1)

masterQba (699425) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805813)

the summary fails to mention it but the biggest downside is that when activision or inifinty ward goes under or chooses to shutdown the servers the game will be useless.

Re:Won't it ... ? (1)

fyrewulff (702920) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805947)

Which can (and already has) happened with dedicated server games because the master list went down.

petition (1, Flamebait)

hydrolyzer (1637811) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805089)

let me sign it

Re:petition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805103)

Yeah. Anyone have a link?

Hell hath no fury (4, Funny)

MrMista_B (891430) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805111)

Hell hath no fury like a gamer scorned.

Re:Hell hath no fury (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805399)

The thing is, the mod community aren't going to take this laying down.
There will be a pirate PC version released within a month, and there will be pirate online play soon after that. If I had to guess, I would say it would even include dedicated servers and standard server listings.

It will be superior to the retail version in every way. I'll wait for that. IW can go fuck a beansprout.

Doubt the petition will have much effect. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805115)

As much as I agree with the petition and the sentiment behind it. I doubt it will sway Infinity Ward or Activision to do anything about this. While 86k signatures is alot, and this will surely cost them some sales I doubt it will have any effect on the profits made from the console versions.

If the sales of the PC version tanked it would also give them a good reason to drop the PC platform all together which is understandable from a business point of view.

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (5, Insightful)

V4L3R4 (1526175) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805173)

We're pretty much boned, too late to change anything, guess I'll download it from that piratebay thingie. This is the problem with ActiBlizzard, they know people will pay for WOW many times over, they have all the money they will ever need, now they just like to see how much they can get away with. Sadly, this is one of those times, bend over loyal customers

Re:Doubt the money will have much effect. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805517)

"This is the problem with ActiBlizzard, they know people will pay for WOW many times over, they have all the money they will ever need, now they just like to see how much they can get away with."

Just curious here but just how much money do they actually need? I'd like to try a similar argument with my boss tomorrow. Tell him I don't need any more pay because I have all the money I'll ever need.

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805229)

Well the problem apparently is that they're doing this to curb PC piracy. I wanted to exceptionally buy MW2 (I haven't bought a game in 10 years) because playing only on cracked servers on MW kind of sucked (mostly when the few servers out there have PunkBuster turned off so you know that's where all the aimbot/wallhack noobs go), and to know it'll most likely use Steam (is the Steam app still as annoying and intrusive as a few years ago?) and that there will be no dedicated servers has me reconsidering that, but on the other hand you pretty much have to buy it now to see any action at all...

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (1)

Aim Here (765712) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805255)

"mostly when the few servers out there have PunkBuster turned off so you know that's where all the aimbot/wallhack noobs go"

Not to mention those of us who made cod4 go on Linux w/ wine, alas. Cod4's PB doesn't work, since it checks the integrity of various Windows API calls.

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (1)

twokay (979515) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805393)

This wont stop piracy. All they did was screw real fans. Same old story AGAIN. You cant rank on hacked servers and most players will want their rank and other stats global. Ranking was a great way to make causal pirates get a legal copy, assuming they didn't just want single player. The hardcore group will of hackers will inevitably reverse the matchmaking servers.

Well done IW you lost a sale, at least until its heavily discounted. Ill be playing L4D2.

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (4, Insightful)

nutshell42 (557890) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805479)

So you, a habitual pirate by your own admission, wanted to make an exception for just this one game until, surprise surprise, you found that excuse you needed to steal it instead.

Cry me a river.

lol, Pirate card (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805629)

Perhaps (gasp) he just doesn't play games?!?!?

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805731)

Well the problem apparently is that they're doing this to curb PC piracy.

And yet, they will encourage it, as people will want cracked versions they can use with private servers.

Alanis, are you paying attention? *This* is the definition of "ironic".

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805871)

lol, yeah, not too sure about that, I mean, things can get complicated. Like with GTA IV, last time I checked you needed to get on a VPN to play it online on private servers.

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (1, Insightful)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805977)

this is stupid. Punkbuster is such a piece of crap it doesn't even work on most modern gaming systems which require it. XP was about the last thing to support it.

Piracy is an excuse for "we want to be even lazier and not even put in effort anymore. also, micropayments".

Nobody likes steam, their DRM is marginally better. You know what'd be the best? No DRM! What an idea!It's just they're the only one with a remotely acceptable solution (and not entirely, at that). Everyone else is even worse dinosaurs of a past era.

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (5, Informative)

DrXym (126579) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805495)

If the sales of the PC version tanked it would also give them a good reason to drop the PC platform all together which is understandable from a business point of view.

It's not understandable if it tanked through their own hamfisted restrictions. PC gamers like dedicated servers. It means clans have somewhere fixed to play, they can make mods, they can moderate who gets on, they can run game matching front ends etc. More importantly, it means the players can run servers beyond a game's commercial life.

It doesn't stop Infinity Ward running their own official servers, or offering some form of single sign-on, or medals / points / rewards, or even selling DLC, or even preventing piracy. They could provide their own server as a value add, and I'm sure the service would be popular. But I see no technical reason for taking away a feature that many people want, especially since the code already exists.

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (3, Insightful)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805587)

Mod parent up! His right in the spot:

More importantly, it means the players can run servers beyond a game's commercial life.

When MW3 arrives, they'll pull the plug on these servers to force everyone to buy the new game.

I still play UT99, ten years after release. I won't but games with planned obsolescence. There is no good reason to do this except screwing the costumer.

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805565)

It is an odd decision, for sure. At first glance, it seems counter-productive, because leaving aside any potential lost sales (and to be honest, I doubt too many of those will actually materialise), there must surely be more cost in providing some bespoke matchmaking system than in sticking in a server browser and letting people host dedicated servers. However, thinking about it, I can think of a few of the factors that are likely behind this. Note that I'm not saying I endorse them; just that I think these are the obvious candidates.

1) Piracy - a huge problem on the PC. This reminds me heavily of Blizzard's recent decision to drop LAN play from Starcraft 2. If you have a game which you know a lot of people will want for the multiplayer component, it makes sense to tie in said multiplayer component as tightly as you can with your anti-cheat.

2) Fear of adverse publicity from mods - when you are putting out a game which involves shooting people with realistic weapons, you probably live in fear that some kid is going to put out a mod where you shoot up his school. If he follows up on this in real life (and potentially even if he doesn't), you're in for a media storm. Sadly, we've seen time and time again that developers of easily-modded games are often held accountable in the public eye for the content of third party mods.

3) Platform standardisation - PC gaming is still a profitable market, but having to develop an entirely separate feature-set and multiplayer setup for the PC release is, in the eyes of many developers, an excessive cost. Look at how multiplayer was dropped from the PC version of the recent Ghostbusters game (which, incidentally, is the nastiest port I've seen in years).

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805949)

And publishing companies wonder why the PC platform is tanking. PC gamers are a different market than console gamers - you have to offer them reasonable "modability" or they won't play.... well, they won't pay at least (but they may play). As soon as publishers get that through their thick skulls, I think we'll see a turn-around in the PC gaming market. It's time to stop all of this anti-piracy nonsense... it's just driving the PC market to pirate more software/games.

I think there is a big market for PC games that aren't huge resource hogs that are relatively inexpensive and provide a decent amount of entertainment and custom-ability. That's what the PC gamer wants, not a carbon-copy of a console game. The mediums are different, the way the user interacts with the machine is completely different and the demographic of players is different as well (although there are overlaps here). It doesn't make sense to market the same products to the PC platform as to the consoles.. the business sense there comes from marketing and sales departments, not from developers and gamers.

Re:Doubt the petition will have much effect. (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805953)

they're going to try to nickel and dime the gamers for every little addon and component. Want to play? $50. Want to play with actual weapons? Another $5 per weapon. Or some other equally idiotic requirement. Somehow they think micropayments are a good thing and there is lots of proof that it's not.

Thus, these 92 thousand signatures add up to way more over time, you know, like what is probably 1/4 or more of the people that were supposedly going to buy this game (not me, especially not now, not before this either).

Here's the petition (5, Informative)

cjfs (1253208) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805133)

Here's the petition [petitiononline.com] .

Re:Here's the petition (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805269)

I would like to know the last time one of those online petitions actually worked.

Re:Here's the petition (2, Informative)

cjfs (1253208) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805383)

I would like to know the last time one of those online petitions actually worked.

Hmm... it appears never [snopes.com] .

On a more upbeat note, slacktivism [snopes.com] is our word of the day!

Mr Bullet (1)

TyFoN (12980) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805157)

Say hello to your new friend Mr Foot.

Pussy in my panties (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805503)

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Golden rule (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805159)

Never buy sequels.
I mean CoD 4 alerady. Is this EA or what ?

Battlefield (2, Funny)

Picardo85 (1408929) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805167)

For the sake of the further growth of the battlefield community i surely hope they don't introduce a serverbrowser nor dedicated servers :) That'd give DICE such an advantage on the PC.

Re:Battlefield (3, Informative)

V4L3R4 (1526175) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805183)

"To answer a lot of questions; Will BFBC2 PC have dedicated servers the user will control? YES!" "And console (PS3, Xbox360) also has access to host Dedicated servers through BFBC2 Private Matches, eliminating "host with the most" issues." http://twitter.com/OfficialBFBC2 [twitter.com] DICE seem to have timed these perfectly, was already a first day buy for me, might pre-order now. Suck it Infinity Ward, you just failed, hard

Re:Battlefield (1)

bkgood (986474) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805395)

Unfortunately, the Battlefield and Call Of Duty series are fairly different shooters. The loss of Call Of Duty would be noticed, as much as I do like Battlefield.

No fun (5, Interesting)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805187)

It appears that there will be no community mods or maps for MW2.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Mods/custom maps were half the fun of CoD4 on PC. Paintball mod on the Simpsons map (mp_simpsons) was awesome, and most custom maps I've played were pretty awesome, several of them could even have been official maps.

Over 88,000 Already... (4, Informative)

carterhawk001 (681941) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805197)

If everyone who signed the petition canceled their pre-order and/or boycotts the game, that's already over $5mil in lost sales. I'm guessing that through word of mouth that number will certainly go up.

Re:Over 88,000 Already... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805219)

I think the old pirate argument will come into play.

"But this will make pirates unhappy, which is worth ten billion to us!"

Re:Over 88,000 Already... (4, Insightful)

Forthac4 (836529) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805253)

If everyone who signed the petition canceled their pre-order and/or boycotts the game, that's already over $5mil in lost sales. I'm guessing that through word of mouth that number will certainly go up.

Assuming people have the balls to actually cancel their pre-order and not buy the game. There are a lot of people who bitch and moan about game companies decision's concerning their games, but very rarely do these people seem to do the most effective thing to tell the game company that they don't like it, which is to NOT BUY THE GAME. Its like the people who complain about securROM yet who still buy the game and just send a letter(or so they claim) to the company. They don't give a shit about any of that letter crap, once they have your money they could care less, and if you continue to buy their games you're just perpetuating the problem. Vote with your wallets people.

Re:Over 88,000 Already... (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805661)

This is likely somewhat real though.

I don't play tons of FPSs, and the Free ones are generally enough, but I know I would not buy one without mods or custom maps. At least I certainly wouldn't buy it before it hit the sub $20 price. The mods and maps that will come are a whole lot of what one gets IMO.

Imagine the lost sales if Valve had blocked mods on half-life and we never received counter-strike, I know that is an extreme example of mods driving sales, but they do to a point anywhere.

Re:Over 88,000 Already... (2, Interesting)

Spazztastic (814296) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805969)

Imagine the lost sales if Valve had blocked mods on half-life and we never received counter-strike, I know that is an extreme example of mods driving sales, but they do to a point anywhere.

Well I think the big thing is that Half Life was made incredibly popular by the mods that were made for it. I played Counter Strike before I even knew what Half Life was. Once I played it, it was definitely an amazing game, but it still is what got me indoctrinated into the series.

I can honestly say for a fact that I was planning on buying this game (Fuck preorders, I'm not that hellbent on getting it), and now I won't because of this. I'd run a dedicated server on my spare computer in my house and my friends would play. Now we're gonna move onto a different game because of this. There's $50 gone for them.

Re:Over 88,000 Already... (3, Insightful)

GF678 (1453005) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805849)

Assuming people have the balls to actually cancel their pre-order and not buy the game. There are a lot of people who bitch and moan about game companies decision's concerning their games, but very rarely do these people seem to do the most effective thing to tell the game company that they don't like it, which is to NOT BUY THE GAME. Its like the people who complain about securROM yet who still buy the game and just send a letter(or so they claim) to the company. They don't give a shit about any of that letter crap, once they have your money they could care less, and if you continue to buy their games you're just perpetuating the problem. Vote with your wallets people.

It's actually worse than that. A lot of people will end up pirating the game and make it clear on forums or whatever that they pirated the game as their way of "protesting". But all that does is two things:

* It shows that those complaining can't really be that serious as they aren't prepared to do without, which makes one's position much less credible, and
* It gives publishers another data point when talking about game piracy numbers.

If you really truly have an issue with a particular software company, and you feel that the only way to make an impact is to not give them any money, then you also have to accept the fact that making a credible stance HAS to also include not using their software, even for free. Otherwise, you're part of the problem.

Having said all that, sticking to these principles can be rather difficult. Particularly when one is young and was brought up on having tons of pirated content on their hard drives. :)

Re:Over 88,000 Already... (0, Troll)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#29806011)

buying anything activision/blizzard/eidos/ea is akin to supporting the worst DRM using big name companies that exist. These companies have constantly screwed their customers over "piracy". Even mentioning the term still shows how out of wack they are when they redefined the phrase to fit their own purpose in the first place.

There are lots of good games that don't involve them in this day and age, thankfully.

I pirate, and thankfully it takes minimal effort since our lan events take care of that. Need COD MW2? I'm sure someone's got it on DVD. Who has the crack? etc over there.

Re:Over 88,000 Already... (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805401)

It's over eighty-nine thousand!!!

Re:Over 88,000 Already... (1)

Computershack (1143409) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805499)

It's over eighty-nine thousand!!!

Assuming every single PC gamer likely to buy it has complained, I doubt that's 1/10th of 1% of the console sales so I hardly think Infinity Ward are likely to give a shit.

Re:Over 88,000 Already... (2, Insightful)

mikael_j (106439) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805717)

Are you seriously suggesting that the sales of the PC version are likely to be 1/1000th of those for the various consoles? You do realize that this would mean that if the console versions together sold 10,000,000 copies there would only be 10,000 copies sold of the PC version. I find that highly unlikely....

If we assume that the aforementioned 89,000 complaints is the entire PC market for the game then that would, by your logic, mean that they will end up selling 89,000,000 console copies. Why would they even be making a PC version if the market looked like this?

/Mikael

Re:Over 88,000 Already... (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805865)

That's closer to 6%.

One of the questions I asked in the first [...] had to do with how many units of CoD4 were sold before Christmas of 2007. The answer was approximately 7 million total, but only 400,000 on the PC side (source: NPD group, Jan 2008 stats).

From here [bashandslash.com]

Not another one (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805215)

The same thing appears to be happening with the newly released Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising, the long awaited sequel to the original Cold War Crisis version of the game. This time the game was released for PC and consoles with no word on dedicated server software for the PC crowd. The apparent migration from PC multiplayer to console multiplayer rather than expansion of online play to consoles pisses me off and I believe I am not alone.

Re:Not another one (1)

V4L3R4 (1526175) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805257)

You are not alone, we're all here for you in your time of need, friend, if only you weren't posting AC, we could help you, but alas, 'tis not so. My apologies, time travel messeth with my head, I must away!!

Re:Not another one (1)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805943)

I think the reason codemasters didn't add dedicated server support is because the engine the game was built on does not support dedicated servers.

I'm still hoping they add them soon though.

This will end well (2, Insightful)

r6_jason (893331) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805265)

Look at the difference between L4D and TF2, if you are going to do stuff like that match maker in L4D, don't even bother with dedicated servers, I do not wish to provide welfare servers, as such was the case w/ L4D, w/ no way to see return players who may have an interest in seeing the server grow and donating to keep it going. PC FPS gamers are a different bunch then console FPS gamers. I do suspect that this has more to do w/ the game being modded then anything else, not too sure why that would do that, it is one of the bigger drawls for PC FPS games. Comment written as an admin at teaminterrobang.com a TF2 community.

Re:This will end well (5, Interesting)

icsx (1107185) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805773)

L4D's lobby system fails in so many ways, even today after multiple updates.

1. You get assigned to a lobby where someone (lobby host) is from Australia and you from Finland. ERR, thats a 370ms latency right there

2. You join into a game that is already going. ERR, that's a 150ms latency there between you and the server which hardly is playable as you cannot predict the zombies hits properly.

3. Lobby assigns you to a modded server where there are some shitty mods going on, the option "back to lobby vote" is disabled. Shit outta luck there. Too bad that the modded servers and 3rd party servers are in same pile (which SUCKS).

4. You cannot select a server where to go, unless you revert to console commands and are a lobby host or use direct connect to particular server through console.

5. Custom maps are a joke. You have to pre-download them and it takes too long time due to maps (campaigns) being over 100 megs, even 300. Once you download them, imagine 30 KB's a second. Thats 1 hour right there. At the point where you get it downloaded, no one is even playint it anymore. Next time you play, same thing but you get to download whole new campaign. At the moment i have 5 Gigs of custom campaigns downloaded from which i have played 3 out of over 20 campaigns.

On the good old CSS/TF2 system, you could just connect to a server and download the campaign from there directly and fast, if the server used a fastdownload host. I guess there was a reason for this, so the slow downloaders would not reserve a spot but Valve should have had the custom maps available over Steam.

6. You end up on a gameserver that is running within a server that is overcrowded aka overloaded aka running too many goddamn gameservers. Even Valve does this with L4D. The official L4D servers were running only 10-20 ticks per second while the optimal is 30. This is caused by the overhead CPU usage in panic events, such as finales and small fight scenes. At that point the CPU usage peaks up 100-300% compared to regular usage. Imagine 30 servers running fine and then all having panic event at the same time. Sheesh!

7. There is no community in L4D. I have one server in top 150 played L4D servers in the world (valve rank, which you see when entering the gameserver). It has served over 26531 players at that time from which 99,99% are people who see:
- Good server running
- Wonder how they could go there through lobby again

Valve builds a system where players keep in touch through Steam so they get together through random system and them meet up on some server ,add eachothers to friendslist and so on. This is perfectly fine but what Valve now forgets is the communities that actually run the servers. There should be a way to pick a server from the list and if its free, lobby assign to it. How hard can it be?

8. No one is actually looking after the players at the servers. There are stats about ragequits, teamkills, and such but not for the server owners. All they can do is look at the logs if someone killed the whole group in some random game and left the server. That sucks, really. And who reads those logs, there are tons of text for crying out loud!

9. The lobby search fails with filtering. If i put difficulty level to Any, i get multiple servers. If i go back, select filter to Expert, i see none or only 1, 2 campaigns with expert on, even though previously with setting any, i saw over 10. If i go back and set it to any again, i see them again, all of them.

10. A lot more stuff that i just can't now remember.

Lobby works to a certain point, perhaps for games like this but needs work - a lot.

Re:This will end well (1)

Spazztastic (814296) | more than 4 years ago | (#29806003)

On the good old CSS/TF2 system, you could just connect to a server and download the campaign from there directly and fast, if the server used a fastdownload host. I guess there was a reason for this, so the slow downloaders would not reserve a spot but Valve should have had the custom maps available over Steam.

The "sv_downloadurl" cvar was put in place long before CSS came out. I ran a 1.6 server in late 2003 to 2005 and once I talked my host into giving me some webspace and bandwidth I immediately saw a massive increase on people joining my server and more donations to pay for the server bill. Sometimes I didn't even pay for it because of the amount of cash coming in.

This was all before any idiot could run a server and you had to hack away at configuration files and manually install mods, maps, etc -- much like installing Linux! None of this "One-Click-Install" mods and maps they have these days.

I was pretty excited about MW2 until.... (5, Insightful)

John Pfeiffer (454131) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805273)

My comment on this on Kotaku about sums it up.

YAY! Now I can't escape horrible lag and the unwashed masses by playing on a reliable, closely-moderated server full of people who aren't mentally-defective monkeys! Fucking awesome.

Seriously, what the hell? I've always loved clan servers. You find a good one with the gametype and map(s) you want, get in there, play well, and you start developing rivalries and camaraderie with the regulars and even gang up on the occasional asshat griefer/defective who joins. They even tend to have several servers running different maps/gametypes that the same subset of people play on. For the uninitiated, this is called A COMMUNITY. Look it up.

I don't want to be thrown into an endless stream of random assclowns with the exceptions of the 2-3 people on my buddy list, and I don't want to 'friend' every goddamn person I wouldn't mind playing with again. Not to mention the fact that this kind of hosting setup is going to mean the game plays like shit 80% of the time, with no guarantee of stability or performance.

I knew MW2 was too good to be true. I worried they'd find some way to completely fuck it up. Oh well, at least we'll have the singleplayer... Unless they suddenly require us to play with a fucking 360 controller.

Infinity Ward: If I wanted a game console, I'd buy a fucking game console. kthx

Re:I was pretty excited about MW2 until.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805571)

I usually play on servers in my own country. Mostly because ping to UK is about 100ms and 200ms to USA. Which means no game.

No thanks, Infinity Ward.

Re:I was pretty excited about MW2 until.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805841)

I don't want to 'friend' every goddamn person I wouldn't mind playing with again

Why not? It doesn't mean they're actually your friends. You won't have to go to the movies with them or anything. It's just a word. Perhaps if they called it "associate" or "contact" or "known non-asshat" or some such, you'd be happier.

Re:I was pretty excited about MW2 until.... (1)

Simulant (528590) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805885)

Right on. That's my thought exactly. Dedicated servers provide a place for regulars to hang out. And it's much more fun playing with regulars than random people every time.

Re:I was pretty excited about MW2 until.... (2)

TOGSolid (1412915) | more than 4 years ago | (#29806001)

Well said good sir. Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising just recently made this exact same retarded decision and payed for it with tons of canceled preorders and crap sales. At least the torrent speed for it was really good thanks to everyone not wanting to actually pay money for a game with gutted multiplayer.

The real joke to all of this is that I never play multiplayer games on the consoles for the sole reason that the multiplayer is always, without fail, completely terrible. Now they want to bring everything I hate about consoles to the PC. It's like they actually want us to pirate their crap.

pirate bay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805329)

i'm looking forward to downloading this game for the single player and just ignoring the multiplayer

Ah the beauty.. (1)

evilNomad (807119) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805391)

The beauty of this whole thing is that they will then use the low sales on the PC to justify cutting the platform for their next game, as obviously all PC gamers are pirates, who refuse to buy their awesome game.. It isn't PC gaming that is dying, it is PC games, but I guess the few companies that understand this stand to make quite a bit of money as the competition shoot themselves in the foot one by one..

Re:Ah the beauty.. (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805433)

And here's why the PC market won't die : because pretending like there's no demand doesn't make the actual demand go away. Therefore even if some decide to cut the PC platform off you'll still have some left to provide PC games and reaping larger fruits. Which means inevitably those who want to cut it off by principle and to make a point (instead of cutting it off for profit-maximisation purposes, when making a PC port costs them less than the money PC sales make them) will come back to it. That's basic free market mechanics for ya.

Epic Fail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805425)

Looks like they want some other games to fill the void that they will create. Or is there something fundamentally wrong, in that they are not able to create a dedicate server anymore?

Epic Fail.

We're like mushrooms.... (1)

ChrisUp2008 (1411357) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805431)

Kept in the dark and feed bullshit. I guess those cool night-vision goggles are for when the Execs have their heads up their asses. I remember the the Tribes series was killed by a locked down version and blew away the fan base.

So P****d off right now... (2, Interesting)

thatbloke83 (1529851) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805463)

I read this over the weekend and went mental. This seriously upset me. I'm off to a massive LAN in the UK in 3 weeks and there's talk of Activision being there to sponsor/promote an MW2 tournament to be held there. (the LAN runs from 13th-16th November, just a few days after the game launches). If they are, they are getting 1500 gamers in their faces telling then to take their shitty console game and FUCK OFF. I'm seriously tempted to run around with people spotting people playing it and removing it from their PCs. We'll stick with CoD4. This also affects the Gamer Server Providers too... alot of them have had preorders for MW2 servers up for a while and now they will have to cancel and refund every single preorder, all becuase some stupid asshat wants to turn my PC into a games console.

Re:So P****d off right now... (2, Insightful)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805547)

I'm seriously tempted to run around with people spotting people playing it and removing it from their PCs

Oh, so you're one of THOSE people. Nice. Not suprised Activision has little or no regard for the opinions of your type.

Re:So P****d off right now... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805563)

You need to get more a life if it has been detrimental to your well-being. But, I guess it shows how much they value your thoughts, and how much they value your wallet.

Re:So P****d off right now... (1, Flamebait)

sleeponthemic (1253494) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805945)

If this seriously upset you to the point where you're visualising screaming "FUCK OFF" at Activision people and vandalising their customers computers to err, teach Activision a lesson: Get Counselling. You need it.

wtf? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805487)

Nooooo way. I think it's more likely this is fucked in teh head marketing. *Every* hardcore gamer is going to be aware of this one. IW you just made my shit-list (one day i'll have an actual list).

What did expect from ActivisonBlizzard/Vivendi... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805489)

No LAN mode for SC2
No community servers for CoD:MW2 ...
They are fscking their customers - just vote with your wallet *eg*.

PC gaming is worth shit nowadays... (-1, Troll)

Computershack (1143409) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805491)

Compared to the console market, PC gaming is worth next to nothing. The levels of piracy in PC gaming doesn't make it worthwhile anymore, especially compared to console sales. So whilst once upon a time, consoles got the port of a PC game, now we get the port of the console one. And that means peer to peer hosting and no dedicated servers.
We have well and truly started to reap what we've sewn.

This makes me sad (2, Insightful)

frakt (1660429) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805507)

I was looking forward to buying and playing MW2, but not so much anymore. Now how will we be able to find a match that isn't ruined by idiots? I really liked having a couple of favorite stable servers with good admins and no idiots. I liked coming back to the same server every day, to compete with the same players I played with last time. I hope, but guess it's too late for them to realise their mistake and change this :\

Damnit Activision (2, Insightful)

GF678 (1453005) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805523)

There's no technical reason for the lack of dedicated server support. It has to have bene a purely business decision, so fuck you Activision. Why are you doing this?

I've heard some developers/publishers say that PC gamers complain a lot. When they pull shit like this, can you really blame 'em?

Re:Damnit Activision (1)

Bieeanda (961632) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805877)

I can think of one very good reason why they're doing this: planned obsolescence. They're under no obligation to provide matchmaking support in perpetuity, and the presence of mods and custom maps unnaturally extends the lifespan of something they'd much prefer you replace after a year.

Good news ... (3, Insightful)

whpsh (1014835) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805555)

... I'll save $60. I'll have more MMO time. I'll be able to examine other FPS options, hopefully from IW competitors. Bad news: The dedicated servers (2xDell 2950s) I was prepping to serve this game + mods + maps in our data center just got flushed. Infinity Ward (like SOE) gets a big ban stamp from the gaming community. And apparently they've disabled forum registration on their site just to keep the mad folks off of it. But maybe I'm a singular case. If I was the IW CEO, everybody between me and the person that came up with this idea would be fired. Business should have zero tolerance for stupidity, and apparently they've got it in spades.

The halflife of Half-Life (2, Informative)

zipherx (1150327) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805601)

Seriously, even the former COD World at War, had sucky dedicated support, as they officially only made a windows version, the linux server was community created.., and i never got it to work. I mean, why can they not learn from the most success full games out there (half-life!) that had a half-life on about 10 years be course they made really good linux server support, created a really nice open mod system and generally was some jolly nice lads.

Somehow I have a feeling the pc gaming industry is trying to screw themself over.. with steam leading the way followed closely by Activision.
I have a cyber cafe in denmark, we have been in the pc gaming business since '97, and it is getting worse and worse to make new games work properly. Steam is playing a big part here, as we have a cafe license from them, and are locked in.. well fine, it works okay. But new games coming out on steam like "Dawn of War 2", we can not make work with our cafe steam accounts. No we have to make new accounts etc.. it is just so messed up.. arrrrrrrgggg

Bullet Meets Foot..... (5, Insightful)

IHC Navistar (967161) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805615)

Why do game companies follow software companies and do stupid stuff like this?

It all seems to follow one general timeline of events:

1) Make top-selling product.
2) Reap millions.
3) Follow up top-selling game with sequel, with plenty of fanfare.
4) Reap more millions.
5) Follow up sequel with yet another sequel.
6) Make horrible, blatant mistake that customers tell you NOT to do.
7) Defy customers and release product anyways.
8) Lose millions.
9) Keep product franchise on life support with mediocre sequels.
10) Franchise dies.
11) Lose millions more.
12) Blame customers, second-hand sales, piracy.
13) Be replaced by other company's products.

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
   

Re:Bullet Meets Foot..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805645)

Managers and business minded folk generally do not see outside of the "cost world". They are very short sighted. The developers are fools for coin.

Re:Bullet Meets Foot..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805893)

You whine totally forgets about the huge console market which doesn't give a shit about PC mods.

Re:Bullet Meets Foot..... (5, Interesting)

LongNosePete (837934) | more than 4 years ago | (#29806009)

This isn't a problem with the console vs. pc gamer market. As much as I hate to say it, this is a misguided response to piracy.

The Call of Duty Devs know exactly how many stolen / cracked copies are around for COD:MW, http://kotaku.com/344848/piracy-makes-call-of-duty-4-devs-sad [kotaku.com] . So their thinking (behind closed doors) is if you lock down the servers so people can't pirate / mod / customize servers you make more money.

Reality piracy != sale. All of those people who crack / share cd keys are not going to go ahead a buy a copy of the game. Especially if it is crippled so only pirates can mod / play on outside servers.

So Lather, Rinse, Repeat 6-13.

Shot in their own foot (1)

icsx (1107185) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805657)

Nice to see that a firm that needs paying customers will shoot themselves into their own legs with decisions like this. Maybe they took some example from battlenet and valve's "successfull" lobby system in L4D but they maybe forgot that blizzard can fund their own systems better with wow and Valve has users dedicated servers with their lobby system.

Suits me just fine. (1, Interesting)

bitrex (859228) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805693)

As a casual gamer who has never gotten involved with the "clan" scene, it has always irked me that after buying a game like something from the Battlefield series - which is marketed as an online game - it turns out that to actually play the game online one has to use servers rented or owned by independent parties. One's access to the multiplayer content is then restricted to the whims of the server admins and whomever they deem fit to exercise admin powers. Why should this be so? I agreed to an EULA with Electronic Arts; I didn't agree to anything with the administrators of the InsanE KillaZs 64-player Conquest server. If EA is going to sell something as an online game they should provide a network for that game to be played on, and the terms of play should be clearly stated in the EULA and enforced if necessary by the company. Not subject to the moods of the hardcore gamers whose server rules change on a day-to-day basis.

Re:Suits me just fine. (5, Insightful)

Aim Here (765712) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805811)

Errr, IW aren't providing a network to play on. The network is just a matchmaking service.
There's nothing wrong with that per se, but it shouldn't be the only option for a game like CoD.

Instead of the server admins, you're at the mercy of whichever user happens to click the 'host' button instead of the 'join' button. If they disconnect in a hissy fit because you fragged them, game over. If they've got a shit connection, or their roommate fires up bittorrent, expect big pings as 32 players flood this poor sap's connection past breaking point. Oh, and say goodbye to mods too, and by extension, the next TF2 or Counterstrike.

In short, the convenience you think you're getting in exchange for your freedom and the existence of a gaming community just isn't there at all.

Re:Suits me just fine. (1)

bitrex (859228) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805869)

I understand now - the system you describe really does sound like the worst of both worlds. It's too bad, I was looking forward to having some good multiplayer snowmobile battles.

Re:Suits me just fine. (1)

pyr02k1 (1640167) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805939)

And dont forget, it's also a problem with the hosting users hardware at that. I know of 9 CoD4 and 5 servers (4 of those at 48 players nearly 24hrs a day), running on one dedicated box, that can handle said abuse, running around 8-35% cpu depending on time of day, and constantly pushing around 10mbit/s but as high as 50 when all the servers were loaded up. Top that with 4GB ram used just on those 9 servers. Thats on an 8 core server w/ 8GB ram on a 100mbit line. (Purchased with intent of using the left over ram on CoD5 servers) Now imagine this on the whim of a 15 year old who cant afford to get anything better then mommys 5 year old hp media center pc... Consoles have one thing, consistency. We lack it as we prefer to build our own pc or buy a premade one from some no name manf. This will be hell on hosting a "session" for other people if your computer cant handle it, much less network. I know that of the people I'm 100% positive who have canceled their pre orders, myself included, 12 of which could handle it system wise, 8 of those 12 could do it network wise. 8 people couldnt do it system wise at all. 20 people they arent getting money from in just one small group. I know of about 5 people who, despite hating no dedicated support, will still pay for the game. As a side note to Aim Here. CoD4 and 5 dont require excessively huge amounts of bandwidth to host a simple multiplayer dedicated. Operation Flashpoint 2, requires FIVE TIMES the amount of bandwidth as CoD4 or 5. Am I saying most home users could do 32, or even 10 player sessions ... no. But, a FIOS, or higher end cable or DSL plan, could do it. In the US, it'd be a pain to accomplish since many users are on simple 768kbit dsl or cable plans. 50 a month (around the cost of cable internet usually, and 10-15 more then a verizon dsl) will get you around 20-25 players. 65 would get you around 60 as a maximum, but higher is very possible.

Stop being lazy. Clicking "sign" is meaningless. (3, Insightful)

The Nipponese (875458) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805803)

On-line "petitions" probably carry 1/100th (if not 1/1000th) the effect of a hand-typed, printed, and signed letter. This applied doubly so to letters to politicians. If you really give a damn, put in the effort. It will make a difference to your cause.

Activation DRM? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805927)

I can't help wonder whether this is a way to enforce copy protection, as an online system would more than likely require a legit cd key with activation. Given how easy the original was to copy, this could just be another attempt at DRM, much like starcraft 2.

Quake 2/3 anyone (-1)

Chas (5144) | more than 4 years ago | (#29805965)

No dedicated servers means no player mods, no player maps, no organized competitive play, no clan servers, etc., and strips away what makes PC gaming different from console gaming.

Q2/3 had no dedicated servers. Yet you could put a machine up full-time online and have it act as a server. You could distribute player-made mods and maps. And there was DEFINITELY organized competitive play and clan servers.

Methinks you've spent too much time having things just handed to you. The tools to community-build are still available to you. The people putting out CoD are simply relying on a non-lazy player-base.

Re:Quake 2/3 anyone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29805979)

Yeah, I'm sure the non-lazy will find a way to enable private servers. It's just too bad that they're likely the pirates.

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