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New Threats Against Pirate Bay Owners

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the this-time-we're-really-warning-you dept.

The Courts 335

angry tapir writes "The Pirate Bay should be closed, and if it isn't, two of the founders will each have to pay a fine of 500,000 Swedish kronor (US$71,500), according to a verdict in the Stockholm District Court. This time it's Fredrik Neij and Gottfrid Svartholm Warg who are in the court's crosshairs. They have been forced to shut down the site or pay the fine. The court has stated that the site will have to remain closed unless Neij and Warg are exonerated on another similar case they're involved in, which is now on appeal."

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FAT NIGGER (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29920995)

Fat nigger faggot cunt.

Re:FAT NIGGER (-1, Troll)

fibrewire (1132953) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921057)

This must be Jimmy Jensen. Only guy i know that would rake his testicles over his laptop after posting someting like this.

Meanwhile... (5, Informative)

AniVisual (1373773) | more than 4 years ago | (#29920997)

There is still isohunt, mininova, demonoid and torrentreactor, all based in countries with different jurisdictions. Atop of that, there is still rapidshare, mediafire, and let's not forget the ol' IRC channels. I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of The Pirate Bay, torrent greppers or the torrent trackers, though.

Re:Meanwhile... (5, Insightful)

nacturation (646836) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921079)

As long as they all host Linux ISOs and Project Gutenberg files, which is the only thing Slashdot users would download from them.

"Threats" ? These are convicted FELONS !! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921329)

May as well say Gary Glitter has new threats against him whenever he steps onto english soil. He's a convicted paedo !! "New threats" is GOOD !!

Slashdot - the feel-sorry-for-peadeos freak crowd !!

Re:"Threats" ? These are convicted FELONS !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921447)

I know you guys like using extra letters in your words, but I'm still not sure "peadeos" is the right spelling, unless it's a brand of stereo equipment I haven't heard of.

You jest (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921583)

But such a think is useful, and they are used for it. Like a year ago when the new Ubuntu came out their tracker got crushed by the load. However, the torrent was posted on TPB, and it had no troubles handling it.

While I realize this isn't their major market, it is something that they are actually used for.

Re:Meanwhile... (2, Insightful)

bonch (38532) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921157)

Demonoid's been down for over a month, and Mininova was ordered by a court to remove illegal torrents.

Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.

Re:Meanwhile... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921215)

Yeah! Shakira absolutely needs the money to keep happy her worthless good for nothing boyfriend. /srcsm

No really! it's all because some CRAP artists feel robbed? Fuck! the scam is in the idiots who listen to that crap, boycott the artists under RIAA's umbrella.

Re:Meanwhile... (2, Informative)

icannotthinkofaname (1480543) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921237)

Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.

No, but we certainly have the right to download torrents, which are legal in themselves! They aren't copyrighted material; they are pointers to copyrighted material!

int x = 7;
int *px = &x;

Remind me: How does (x == px) evaluate?

Re:Meanwhile... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921525)

> Remind me: How does (x == px) evaluate?

It evaluates as "laws are not based on pointer arithmetic".

See the concept of aiding and abetting. Things that are, on the surface, legal, can be illegal if they are knowingly and willingly and purposefully helping the commission of a crime. YMMV, consult your local legislation for details.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste. (2, Insightful)

westlake (615356) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921905)

No, but we certainly have the right to download torrents, which are legal in themselves! They aren't copyrighted material; they are pointers to copyrighted material!

Watching a geek self-destruct in the courtroom is one of life's most innocent pleasures.

You have a BT client installed.

You click on a link - and the infringing file arrives piece by piece to be assembled within your computer.

No other action on your part is anticipated or required.

That is all anyone needs to know. The interior mechanics of the system are irrelevant.

Re:Meanwhile... (3, Insightful)

Hojima (1228978) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921249)

Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.

Because the rights of illegal downloading is not in question, it's the right to host a site that tracks torrents. You see, as long as there is a site that legitimately hosts non-copyrighted material, there will be people who post torrents that contain other material. To the dismay of the record companies, there will never be an end to piracy, however, these sites should not be one to suffer. While you may compare this to government shutting down legitimate bars that happen to be a gathering place for criminals that sell illegal weapons, there is a difference. Imagine that these bars were magical, so that even a tiny bar would only have to have its name whispered to have vendors teleport their wares through that bar. Some are even in a magical untouchable plane (this would be similar to sites hosted out of jurisdiction). Going after the largest bar because it's very well known and mostly criminals use it wouldn't make much sense. All the criminals would go elsewhere and you'd have the same damn problem, until the evil warlocks responsible monopolize magic bars.
Then we would have to wait for a hero who can wield the sword of Gargatha to slay these evil warlocks. But there's a rumor that these evil warlocks have been killing virgins to gain immunity to the sword. I don't know what this would be analogous to but I though it would be fun to add.

Re:Meanwhile... (5, Funny)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921381)

Seven fricking lines of analogy and not a single car?

Re:Meanwhile... (4, Funny)

BakaHoushi (786009) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921523)

Well, one of the evil warlocks is drunk and drives his magic car into the magical untouchable bar.

There. Happy now?

Re:Meanwhile... (1)

Linker3000 (626634) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921881)

As I understand it, your quote only requires one car analogy per 1/200,000 Library of Congress equivalent

Re:Meanwhile... (2, Insightful)

Exception Duck (1524809) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921539)

Hid.im is a new web-based service that allows users to hide .torrent files inside PNG images. This means that users can easily upload hidden torrent files to their favorite image hosting service and forums, or use it as an avatar on social networking sites without being censored.

http://torrentfreak.com/hidim-converts-torrents-into-png-images-090714/ [torrentfreak.com]

Re:Meanwhile... (2, Insightful)

daid303 (843777) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921735)

That's not hidden in PNG images, that's "as" PNG images. It would be better to put it in Exif data, so it's really hidden.

Re:Meanwhile... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921855)

Stop making it more complicated that it is just so you can avoid obeying the law.

Piratebay is a place where people go to steal software and movies - thats all.

Re:Meanwhile... (5, Informative)

bit01 (644603) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921317)

Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.

Some astroturfers like to consistently and dishonestly conflate legal rights with ethical and moral rights, not to mention the meta-questions of whether legal rights (really, privileges in this case) should be assigned at all. It is not at all clear that one (1) person should be able to block what potentially billions of people could do, particularly when in the vast majority of cases it's a victimless "crime" (in fact it enriches society) that harms no one (they weren't going to buy it anyway). "Your Rights Online" is a good category to put related articles.

---

It's not piracy, it's sharing. Didn't your parents teach you to share?

Re:Meanwhile... (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921725)

its a victimless crime to you, because you don't give a fuck about the hard work put in by the people who actually get off their asses and create stuff.

Fucking pathtic

Re:Meanwhile... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921939)

one person doesn't block what you can do. That person has the sole right to sell copies of a work HE created. Where the fuck do slashdotters pull this bullshit about it being wrong to create something and then sell it?

If I save up and buy a house, the average slashdotter agrees I own that house FOREVER.
If I take the same money and sue it to pay people to make a movie, apparently that movie belongs to everyone, not me, and I am fucking evil if i want to sell tickets.
What the fuck are people on who make those sort of pathetic mental gymnastics just to justify their own freeloading and loose morals?

I wish the 'free!!!!' crowd would fuck off to North Korea where idiots still believe this shit.

Re:Meanwhile... (1)

Spassoklabanias (1295839) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921441)

Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.

Speaking of illegal downloads what's so illegal about it anyway? In my mind, it is (or is it 'it should have been'?) illegal for a person to use software he didn't acquire legally.

I can't think of a good car analogy, but I'm pretty sure labeling a download as 'illegal' is stupid. It series of 0s and 1s. How can I predict their sequence and how am I supposed to know that a particular sequence of 0s and 1s is someone else's work before using (ie installing / viewing / printing etc) those bytes?

Re:Meanwhile... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921557)

fuck me

i seriously hope you have to use that argument in court some day. the judge could do with a good laugh.

Re:Meanwhile... (1)

Exception Duck (1524809) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921527)

Depends if you mean a legal or a moral right.

I think I have a legal right to download copyrighted material in my country.

Just can't watch it :)

Re:Meanwhile... (4, Insightful)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921533)

The reason it's filed under "your rights online" is because our legal rights are something we determine as a democratic society.

Rights do not refer to only to current rights, but also the discussion of future rights and changes of existing rights.

We as a society, should have the power, and say to change rights when majority agrees.

While downloading illegal torrents and piracy may be illegal now, there is an important discussion to be had regarding their place in humanity. Further more, there is a much larger discussion to be had about economics all together, and if perhaps there is a better way to live as citizens of our planet.

If we assume that right now, is the best we can do.... We might as well fucking die because as a species of intelligent people, we should always ask questions, invent new things, and reinvent old ideas.

Right now, we could be doing a lot more to help ALL OF US live a better, healthier life... with out poverty and greed... however we dont. WHY?

Maybe one day it will be the right of man, that we deserve much better than what we have now, and call a "civil" society.

Re:Meanwhile... (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921737)

Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.

Regardless of the current laws and the content of the files and whoever created them it will still be under "your rights online", as in "it's about your rights", your rights aren't set in stone, even if the Bible may have told you so.

Laws and rights can be agreed upon and changed.

Thought it don't seem to happen on a democratic basis ;D

Re:Meanwhile... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921767)

Slashdot also puts stories about people busted for making counterfeit MS Office CDs in YRO.

The category seems to be a catch-all for legal issues and nothing to do with "your rights".

Re:Meanwhile... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921831)

why is this under "Your Rights Online?" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.

I would argue that laws should represent the views of the majority, and I think it's quite clear that the majority of people have little to no problem with piracy. It is a victimless crime.

How to pay the fine... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921189)

Sell thepiratebay.com to an ad agency, and those guys would not have any problem repaying that fine...

- fibrewire

Re:Meanwhile... (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921207)

Dude, dude, you just broke countless "The first rule about ... is that we don't talk about ..." rules!

Re:Meanwhile... (1)

el3mentary (1349033) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921821)

Dude, dude, you just broke countless "The first rule about www.4chan/b/ is that we don't talk about www.4chan/b/" rules!

Fixed that for you.

Re:Meanwhile... (1)

FallinWithStyle (1474217) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921241)

The cat and mouse game, between those who wish to control the flow of information and those who wish to attain it, has existed since the birth of civilization. It is unfortunate that the battle must persist, despite the the inevitable outcome-- from the printing industry to the Internet and its many applications (see Napster, and the evolution of P2P file sharing). Any attempt to control the flow and dispersion of "IP" has shown to indeed be futile as time (and with it, technology) progresses. In the modern world, it is especially damaging because of the effect it has on the underlying infrastructure (I won't go into details, and the real blame here is debatable).

Re:Meanwhile... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921363)

torrentreactor fucking sucks.

Re:Meanwhile... (1)

Skizmo (957780) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921413)

... on top....

Re:Meanwhile... (1)

espamo (1061728) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921425)

And atop of everything, there's internet. TCP/IP can't tell apart copyrighted data and non copyrighted data. That's it.

Re:Meanwhile... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921605)

Actually TPB isn't located in Sweden, neither the owner company nor the servers. And Neij and Warg are both expatriotes... so the Swedish court doesn't have jurisdiction over the Pirate bay.... but that's not stopping them obviously.

Re:Meanwhile... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921841)

Demonoid has been off the radar for quite some time and shows no sign of returning any time soon.

First Post! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29920999)

Suck it dry

Re:First Post! (1)

Soilworker (795251) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921015)

wow you're really not good at this.

Re:First Post! (1)

nog_lorp (896553) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921023)

You were probably some sort of "reverse trolling re-troll trolled" or something just now.

Re:First Post! (1)

Zider (211890) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921309)

Also known as "trick-trolling"

Re:First Post! (1)

nog_lorp (896553) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921493)

Aha, along the lines of "You just got tricktrolled!" or "You just lost the game."
Wait what?

Re:First Post! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921049)

Yeah, this is the real first post. The rest of these were by pre-first post losers.

Oh no! (4, Funny)

nog_lorp (896553) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921001)

What will we do without THE ONLY TORRENT TRACKER?

And we don't even have an alternate tracker that tracks every TPB torrent! If only someone had made OpenBitTorrent.com in time!

Re:Oh no! (5, Funny)

Eternal Vigilance (573501) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921077)

These people would have tried to save the Titanic by pounding the water with a hammer.

"A breach in the hull! Man the hammers!"

Re:Oh no! (2, Funny)

Digestromath (1190577) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921703)

No, I think they are the type to try and save the Titanic by drilling holes in the floor, so the water will have somewhere to drain out.

Re:Oh no! (1, Troll)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921099)

What will we do without THE ONLY TORRENT TRACKER?

And we don't even have an alternate tracker that tracks every TPB torrent! If only someone had made OpenBitTorrent.com in time!

That's not the point of enforcing the law. You don't leave thieves, embezzlers or whatever alone because there's a lot more of them out there. You catch the ones you can. (No I don't really think the piratebay should be shut down but it IS a stupid argument.)

Re:Oh no! (1)

nog_lorp (896553) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921171)

Oh no, that isn't what meant at all. My comment was in response to all the fanfare about TPB coming under legal fire. Of course, it is of interest to most of us here due to the precedents being set. But a large amount of discussion lately is "oh noes teh PB".

Re:Oh no! (4, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921197)

I think we should be more worried about wikileaks and other assorted projects that the piratebay guys have been supporting.
I have no idea how much of the piratebay's advertising revenues have gone into wikileaks, but my understanding, as superficial as it may be, is that they are the primary group behind it. Maybe fundraising efforts have replaced them, but I haven't heard one way or the other.

Re:Oh no! (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921391)

What?

The WikiLeaks "thanks to the following" list doesn't even include TPB.

1. Reporters Committee for the Freedom of the Press (RCFP)
2. The American Society of Newspaper Editors (ASNE)
3. The Associated Press - (AP) world wide news agency, based in New York
4. Citizen Media Law Project
5. The E.W Scripps Company - newspapers, TV, cable TV etc.
6. Gannet Co. Inc - the largest publisher of newspapers in the USA, including USA Today
7. The Heast Corporation - media conglomerate which publishes the San Francisco Chronicle
8. The Los Angeles Times
9. National Newspaper Association (NNA)
10. Newspaper Association of America (NAA)
11. The Radio-Television News Directors Association (RTNDA)
12. The Society of Professional Journalists (SPJ) 13. Public Citizen - founded by Ralph Nader
14. together with the California First Amendment Coalition (CFAC) 15. The Electronic Freedom Foundation (EFF)
16. the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)
17. The Project on Government Oversight (POGO)
18. Jordan McCorckle, the University of Texas

Take a look at their advisory board too - http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Advisory_Board [wikileaks.org]
I don't think WikiLeaks is in danger of collapsing due to lack of support from the 3 guys who run a torrent tracker...

Re:Oh no! (1, Insightful)

nog_lorp (896553) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921513)

Cmon now, this is still 5 insightful?
I need to post something logged in now to get a +2 karma/subscription post so people can read:
WikiLeaks has a vast community of supporters and maintainers (read the Score:0 anon post under parent).

TPB is a drop in the well of support for WikiLeaks.

Re:Oh no! (1)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921291)

But a large amount of discussion lately is "oh noes teh PB".

Well they have become icons because of their brazen attitude towards legal threats in the past and their unapologetic openness about what they do. We do needed that I think. Filesharing shouldn't become a shady and/or elitist thing again.

Re:Oh no! (3, Insightful)

cjfs (1253208) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921213)

That's not the point of enforcing the law. You don't leave thieves, embezzlers or whatever alone because there's a lot more of them out there. You catch the ones you can.

And more specific to these cases, the industry isn't concerned with ending all copyright infringement, they're concerned with it becoming (more) mainstream. Remove some of the major trackers/sources, a few high publicity lawsuit campaigns, and then "why don't you just download it" becomes "why not just buy it".

Re:Oh no! (5, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921277)

That's not the point of enforcing the law. You don't leave thieves, embezzlers or whatever alone because there's a lot more of them out there. You catch the ones you can. (No I don't really think the piratebay should be shut down but it IS a stupid argument.)

When the law starts making large portions of the population into criminals, it's time to start changing the law.
I say that because the same laws being used to go after TPB are being used to come after you and me. Or is that a stupid argument too?

The War on Copyright is going exactly like The War on Drugs:
A supersize order of Fail with an extra side order of extensive collateral damage.

Re:Oh no! (1)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921311)

Even if taking content without paying for it were the same thing as paying for a recreational substance used on yourself in privacy, how long has the war on drugs been going on? Wasn't there widespread public opinion in say, 1965 that maybe the reefer should be legal? Yet, over the last 44 years, have drug laws gotten softer or far, far harsher? (hint : look at prison population statistics for the answer)

Re:Oh no! (2, Informative)

Mr2001 (90979) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921395)

Wasn't there widespread public opinion in say, 1965 that maybe the reefer should be legal?

There still is [cbsnews.com] :

A new poll from Gallup shows that 44 percent of Americans now support legalizing marijuana, with 54 percent opposed. This is the highest-ever support for legalization in the Gallup poll.
[...]
Gallup reports that support for pot legalization was in the 25 percent range during the 1970s through the 1990s, but jumped to 31 percent in 2001 and has been rising throughout this decade.

Re:Oh no! (4, Insightful)

nog_lorp (896553) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921451)

What are you talking about? That is an awful argument.

The argument for legalization of marijuana PREDICTS the further detriment to society from drug abuse becoming more of a problem.

When softer alternatives are prohibited, harder alternatives become more attractive (for example, why bootleg beer when you can bootleg harder alcohol). This leads to more people doing harder drugs.

As if that isn't bad enough, you then foster black market production and distribution of drugs, which is a huge industry that goes untaxed. This also leads to variable purity and supply of the various illicit substances. For drugs like heroin, this means regional rashes of drug overdose.

It is undeniable that drug addiction is a psychological and physiological problem, which should be treated with medical care rather than with the immensely expensive and wholly ineffectual criminalization of people with a disease. As a matter of fact, given recidivism rates of those convicted of drug offenses, it is pretty clear that jailing drug users leads them to continued and harder drug use. I, personally, think a stoner is of less harm to society than a stoner graduated to meth thanks to exposure in prison.

Finally, your argument is awful in regard to the simple fact that, over the last 44 years, marijuana hasn't been legal, so any perceived benefits would not be in effect.

Re:Oh no! (2, Informative)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921505)

I think you misread my post. I'm just pointing out the simple fact that for a long time a good chunk of the population has thought that marijuana isn't that bad. Yet, instead of making it legal, they've stiffened the penalties for it (and virtually all crimes) over the years.

Re:Oh no! (1)

selven (1556643) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921817)

If you remove a thief the amount of theft goes down. If you remove pirate site the amount of piracy will not go down. That's the difference.

Oh dear (1)

crocodill (668896) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921035)

Sweden stayed neutral during WW2, but have caved to the *AA type mofos. Therefore *AA mofos = worse than the nazis? Indeed, it is to ponder.

Re:Oh dear (1)

Vovk (1350125) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921065)

I'd rather fight Nazis than a Big American Corporation any day. Nazis smell better...

Re:Oh dear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921067)

I believe you're talking about Switzerland.

Re:Oh dear (2, Informative)

cjfs (1253208) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921227)

I believe you're talking about Switzerland.

Sweden had a similar policy [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Oh dear (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921581)

Nope, Sweden was neutral. There were issues similar to Switzerland that made it's neutrality questionable though like selling arms to the Nazis, although it did turn a blind eye to allowing the Norwegian resistance and such refuge there also.

The general consensus from a couple of Swedish friends I have though (although to be fair that doesn't mean this is the national view or anything) is that Sweden took the wrong course of action in the war and should've sided with the allies and that even if it's neutrality was to save it from being dominated by the Nazis like Norway was it should at least have been more neutral and less helpful to the Nazis.

Re:Oh dear (1)

afaik_ianal (918433) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921155)

George? Is that you?

Those are some nice files .. you got on your disk! (1)

freaker_TuC (7632) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921341)

A discussion belonging more to the kingdom of Al Capone ...

"Hey son, That's some nice media collection you got your PC, would be a shame, ya know? if something happened to it, such nice media collection... ya know?"
"... Oh, Country western music, we should have brought shotguns for this!"
".. would break my heart!"

Oh well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921043)

At least they tried.

Crimes against (4, Funny)

cjfs (1253208) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921045)

In April, Fredrik Neij , Gottfrid Svartholm Warg , Peter Sunde and Carl Lundström were found guilty of being accessories to crimes against copyright law

Poor copyright law, he didn't get out of the hospital for 2 weeks. I don't think he'll ever be the same.

Is it legal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921231)

The court has stated that the site will have to remain closed unless Neij and Warg are exonerated on another similar case they're involved in, which is now on appeal."

Can the court do that? Ordering a website to remain closed until a case is resolved is like a death sentence for websites. Could you imagine how the internet would look if Myspace, Facebook and Twitter was down whenever they were involved in a court case?

Re:Is it legal? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921295)

Could you imagine how the internet would look if Myspace, Facebook and Twitter was down whenever they were involved in a court case?

Much, much better than it does now, yes.

The Next Big Tracker (1)

QuoteMstr (55051) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921053)

The Next Big Tracker: a Tor hidden service? Yes, peer-to-peer over Tor is bad manners. If you're just talking about the tracker, the bandwidth requirements are reasonable.

Re:The Next Big Tracker (1)

dimag0g (1659273) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921127)

How is Tor supposed to help? As far as I know, it provides anonymity for clients, but not for the server. I think Freenet-like technologies would be more suitable for anonymous trackers.

re (1)

JohnVanVliet (945577) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921063)

there is OneSwarm ,the p2p/f2f client

Last time I checked... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921069)

TPB guys moved the site and themselves to the Netherlands. Unless it is some EU mandate that people sued in one country are sued in all of them, I don't see how this court has any jurisdiction over any of what they are ruling on.

Re:Last time I checked... (3, Informative)

BlueParrot (965239) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921103)

TPB guys moved the site and themselves to the Netherlands. Unless it is some EU mandate that people sued in one country are sued in all of them, I don't see how this court has any jurisdiction over any of what they are ruling on.

They are Swedish citizens , there's EU treaties on how to deal with situations like this.

Re:Last time I checked... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921261)

Correct. Generally speaking, as long as whatever you committed in a foreign jurisdiction is also a crime in your resident jurisdiction, extradition will not be a major judicial hurdle. Considering a recent Dutch judgement against the Pirate Bay, I think they'll have to do whatever the Dutch and Swedish authorities say. They should have known this, and made the site uncontrollable by a single person, so that only the cooperation of multiple people in truly different jurisdictions would be required to shut the site down, like they said they would. I'm guessing at this stage that either was a bluff from the start, or that it later turned out to be impossible for technical reasons or similar.

R.I.P Media Industry... (2009 to -) (4, Insightful)

fibrewire (1132953) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921089)

Maybe the problem is that so many companies out there can fail because of a free internet. Then again, i wonder what other business models would fail because of a similar "free" something. Medicine? Voting? Any ideas?

Re:R.I.P Media Industry... (2009 to -) (1)

your_neighbor (1193249) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921623)

If you consider the correct analogies...
East India Company
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company [wikipedia.org]

"Though the Company was becoming increasingly bold and ambitious in putting down resisting states, it was getting clearer day by day that the Company was incapable of governing the vast expanse of the captured territories"

If one dances... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921105)

...one must pay the piper.

This is a significant breakdown in the law (5, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921233)

The crux of The Pirate Bay's existence is that it is not explicitly illegal under Swedish law to do what they do. We know what torrent technology is and how it works and how it is used. There is no need to go into that. The pirate bay tracks, indexes and serves up torrent file. It is not copyrighted data or information.

The new spin is that they have been convicted of being an accessory to copyright infringement but there is no specific instance of copyright infringement having been associated with the charge. It seems to me that you would first have to prove an offence occurred before someone can be charged with being an accessory to an offence. Can someone be charged with accessory to murder without proof that a murder took place? I understand there is a general and accepted fact that The Pirate Bay does indeed contribute to copyright infringement, but in a court of law where proof and evidence are important, it seems pretty dangerous to convict someone on established presumptions rather than fact based on evidence and that there should be an original offence, based on fact based evidence, to associate with an accessory charge.

Sweden showed that they have integrity of their judicial process by not charging TPB with copyright infringement as their laws do not identify their activities as copyright infringement. Good. But charging them as an accessory to an unidentified offence is a departure from that judicial integrity.

I worry for the rule of law when people can be charged with crimes in this way.

Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law (1)

cjfs (1253208) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921335)

The new spin is that they have been convicted of being an accessory to copyright infringement but there is no specific instance of copyright infringement having been associated with the charge.

They most likely provided substantial examples of infringing works that just weren't contested. TPB's stance seemed to be "we're not hosting the content" not that it wasn't being indexed.

I'd be more concerned with what exactly being an accessory to copyright infringement means. Link to a blog that contains an unlicensed song in a parody video? Investing in Xerox?

Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law (3, Insightful)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921421)

Technically, they aren't committing copyright infringement.

Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement. You really can't deny that, it does not make any attempt what so ever to prevent it. It was created by an anti-copyright organization.

You can't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on, didn't see, didn't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it.. But when on any given day (in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY), I can look out my window and watch it happening, while I sit and drink my coffee, its a slightly different story. When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I'll provide them with information on how to find victims, and then look the other way while they strangle those victims, I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it. They can't even say 'I was just following orders', unless you think that was a valid excuse for Hitler as well, considering he was giving the orders, I don't think anyone would go that far would they?

I wouldn't expect the courts to allow someone watching these murders to take place and not do anything about it, I hope you don't either.

Why do we feel any different about Pirate Bay?

Simple, no one really feels that copyright infringement is a crime on the order of magnitude that the content producers want to treat it. If you want to fix the problem, change copyright law, don't allow loopholes around it. Change the law that is the problem.

I have used torrents for legal downloads. Torrents are not the problem. P2P is not the problem. Things that exist almost exclusively to facilitate copyright infringement ARE a problem.

I have never seen anything legal on TPB, I'm sure its there somewhere, but its not something I've noticed. I've certainly never used it for anything legal. I've used it to replace several lost/scratched disks and other content I actually own. I've used to get things I don't own, I won't deny that. But never once did I think it was 'legal'.

I worry for the rule of the law when people can so easily skirt around it in this way.

I would prefer that the copyright law was fixed. I believe it will be. According to Wikipedia, TPB ranks 107th most popular site in the world. I'm obviously not alone. I believe something will bring these laws to the public forefront enough that the content producers will be tarred, feathered, and strung from a tree, and finally we'll change the copyright law. Until then, they ARE accessories to illegal activities by any sane standard on the planet.

Its silly to imply there is no evidence. if you've ever been to the site.

Again, I'm not against the site, its creators, or its purpose. I'm also not so nieve as to try to imply its not one of the easiest ways on the planet to pirate software. If anything, its made it something the general public can do with trivial time investment. Not like the good old days of EFNet when it took some sort of know how to get at the warez. Its far too easy now, and as such software and content is becoming more DRM infested. This will come to a head. Not in time to save the TPB guys, they will at best become martyrs. Maybe this is the only way the law will get changed, but its silly to think they'll get away with it. I wish them the best of luck, but I also know they certainly are guilty of facilitating illegal activities.

When you make comments like yours, and people mod them insightful, it just makes the anti-copyright movement seem all the more illegitimate. Take legalized racism in America for example. Riots and violence didn't make it go away, it just got people killed and hurt those being wronged more than those doing the wrong. Peaceful and law abiding protest on a massive scale got it to go away (more or less, we're still working on it). Breaking the law won't get it changed, voting can however. Do your job as a citizen and you can fix the problem, IF its actually important enough to you to invest the time to do so.

Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921607)

I wouldn't expect the courts to allow someone watching these murders to take place and not do anything about it, I hope you don't either.

We fucking feel different because we aren't fucking talking about murderers and your fucking analogy is a fucking bad one.

I don't know what you do but you must be very fucking biased on this subject to use an Hitler analogy to compare file sharing with mass murdering.

Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921613)

Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement....It was created by an anti-copyright organization.

No it wasn't. TPB came before The Pirate Party.

Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921625)

Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement.

Lets face reality though, weapons exists to facilitate life infringement.
Don't see many courts trying to shutdown all those weapons!

We need the Wookiee defense.
And I must say we all live in a very strange world, Endor has nothing compared to Earth.

Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921631)

"interestingly" that's not quite right. As has happened before (forget the exact case name, etc) but some lady's friend knew, at some point, she was going to kill her then husband. The prosecution couldn't charge her with anything, since knowing that a crime will happen at some point in the future is of its self not a crime.

silly companies (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921275)

It's hilarious these people think going after top sites will change anything. The only people enjoying all of this is the lawyers making huge bankrolls during the court process.

When/if pirate bay goes down another 10 torrent sites will rise up to take the reigns. You can't stop it and never will. They should have learned that from Napster.

Re:silly companies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921339)

a topsite is very different.

Re:silly companies (2, Insightful)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921457)

Learned what from napster? I haven't used another P2P client since it went away. All the replacements are asstastic and are nothing compared to what napster was in its day. They most certainly one that particular battle on the large scale. Taking napster down splintered the system enough that it became FAR FAR less useful.

You will never stop it, and thats not something they are even trying to do, its too expensive. They can, however, stop the majority of it by making it too much of a pain to justify the effort and providing alternatives that are usable/cheap enough to make it not worth pirating.

I had a rather large collection of music in that time period, my roommate had a massive collection, filled a $100k Sun fibre channel array with mp3s, well over a hundred gigs, in the late 90s. The array failed to boot one day, and was moved to a new site eventually, I have no idea what happened to those songs. I do know that since then, with the advent of iTunes and dollar songs, that now I just buy music. Back then my time was worth less than the cost of buying a CD for one song. Now, my time is worth far more than the cost of buying the song. I don't pirate anything anymore.

Well, I did make one exception. The day Metallica got all uppity about mp3's and iTunes, I proceeded directly to TPB and downloaded all of their music. I have since learned the error of my ways, I no longer pirate Metallica music either. Now its simply banned from my home. They can kiss my rosey red ass, fucking sell outs :)

Re:silly companies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921573)

Cool story bro.

Re:silly companies (4, Funny)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921589)

Metallica make music? When did that start then?

Re:silly companies (4, Funny)

daybot (911557) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921793)

Metallica make music? When did that start then?

I thought they were just a copyright lobby group?

Re:silly companies (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29921611)

You sir, are an idiot. Napster was a joke compared to the tools of today. I remember dealing with kazaa after Napster and still thinking it sucked until I saw soulseek, where I could get full high quality underground albums easily. Then from there, it evolved to torrents and private torrent sites that track tons of albums/software/etc and give incentive to share. I am sorry, but now I can download a 320kbps album in 10 secs. That's way faster than downloading it with DRM the legal way. And, you say napster was the high point of p2p.... Please join the 21st century

Re:silly companies (4, Informative)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921801)

Learned what from napster? I haven't used another P2P client since it went away. All the replacements are asstastic and are nothing compared to what napster was in its day.

Bullshit. If you don't want to share music the way you used to, fine... but don't make up some crap like this in the process. The scene is far bigger and better than the Napster days in every way.

how can they order it closed? (1)

polle404 (727386) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921503)

How can they order it closed?

i thought it was a matter of public record that TPB was owned by a company in the Antilles?
and that this company has unknown owners? (most likely the 4 swedes, but they'd still have to prove it first?)

How can a Swedish court order a private person to close a foreign companys property, that's not hosted in Sweden?

Re:how can they order it closed? (3, Informative)

Xerfas (1625945) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921663)

This is the best translation I could come up with using google translate and my knowledge of the swedish language.

Two of the pirates behind the file sharing site Pirate Bay riscs a new million fine. Stockholm District Court threatens them with each SEK 500,000 in liquidated damages if the Pirate Bay won't shut down.

In April this year, the verdict fell against The Pirate Bay - in fact without anything really changed. Sharing The site was still there, as well as the illegal file sharers.

After threats of being sued decided the site operator, Black Internet, to switch off The Pirate Bay.

Despite that, the site is still maintained, so the district court decided that they'll turn against the people behind the site.

For Fredrik Neij and Gottfried Svartholm Warg, it means a civil action to enforce bans The Pirate Bay.

- If they continue to operate, they can be sentenced to pay a fine of half a million crowns to each of the state, says lawyer Monique Wadsted representing Hollywood companies in the trial of The Pirate Bay

They say that they no longer have anything to do with the management?

- They say it, but there are a host of other information they have provided, and registrations of domain names that clearly shows that they are still involved in the operation of the business.

Fredrik Neij writes in an email to DN that he has had nothing to do with the operation of The Pirate Bay in a long time, and that he therefore is already following the district court's decision.

Furthermore, he believes that it does not matter to him if the debt of the enforcement service is the 45 million or 45.5 million crowns. "It's money I will never be able to pay," he writes.

He also notifies the sentence will be appealed.

Black Internet has appealed the district court's earlier decision on the penalty. The matter is currently with the Court of Appeal.

Source: http://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/nyheter/pirate-bay-hotas-av-miljonboter-1.984749 [www.dn.se]

Time for dynamic torrent content ? (3, Interesting)

bug1 (96678) | more than 4 years ago | (#29921593)

Imagine if a torrent could contain dynamic content, like a web page.

You download the torrent, the content has say thepiratebay.org indexed, somehow the creater of the official torrent can modify the files pointed to by the torrent, and thus make the piratebay itself distributed. Synchronization might be tricky...

Maybe it wouldnt work, but in any case, i look forward to seeing what great new technology all this enforcement brings us.

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