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Free 3G Wireless For Nintendo's Next Handheld?

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the keeping-up-with-the-appses dept.

Nintendo 110

itwbennett writes "'Nintendo is feeling the sting of competition from the iPhone,' writes Peter Smith in a recent post. 'At least, that's the feeling one gets when reading Nintendo president Satoru Iwata's thoughts on the future of Nintendo handhelds. According to a Financial Times piece, Iwata suggests the next Nintendo handheld (and to be clear, he isn't talking about the big screen DS launching in Japan next month) might include free 3G wireless, much like the Amazon Kindle does. The challenge is to offer the immediacy of downloading an inexpensive new game, anywhere, anytime, without forcing the user into some kind of monthly data plan.' From the FT piece: 'Only people who can pay thousands of yen a month [in mobile phone subscriptions] can be iPhone customers. That doesn't fit Nintendo customers because we make amusement products,' Mr Iwata said."

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nice (1)

GeorgeMonroy (784609) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951106)

that would be great

Yet another revolution (0)

Wayne247 (183933) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951112)

Agfain nintendo is finding a truly innovative idea in order to stay dominant.

They found a niche with the Wii for the casual gamers, now they'll find another niche with people on the move (but with limited budgets) for casual on the go gaming purchases.

Go nintendo!

Also, First.

Re:Yet another revolution (3, Insightful)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951166)

Not really innovative they are just in the first in the hand held gaming industry to want to offer free access to a network. No doubt it will end up being some what similar to Amazons evdo network for their kindle. Think Nintendo kindle for games (at least that's what I get from the article)

Re:Yet another revolution (2, Insightful)

zonker (1158) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951528)

I don't know, I think until someone else does it first in the realm of gaming I'd say it still qualifies as innovative.

You don't say "Meh, automobiles aren't very innovative. They're really just a horse drawn carriage without the horse."

CAR ANALOGY ALERT (1)

Tetsujin (103070) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951842)

You don't say "Meh, automobiles aren't very innovative. They're really just a horse drawn carriage without the horse."

Well, that's because it's a pain in the ass to drag a horse-drawn carriage around places when you don't have a horse...

Re:Yet another revolution (0)

Golddess (1361003) | more than 4 years ago | (#29953174)

Isn't that the kind of thinking that got us into this whole problem with patents for "doing X, but on the internet"?

Re:Yet another revolution (0)

zonker (1158) | more than 4 years ago | (#29958808)

No, one is a federal law, the other is just an opinion.

Re:Yet another revolution (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#29960868)

I heard the DS can connect to those T-Online Hotspots for free (never tried it) so it wouldn't be the first time they offered free network access (but to local WLANs instead of nationwide cellphone networks) with a system either.

Re:Yet another revolution (3, Interesting)

blankinthefill (665181) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951248)

While it might not be revolutionary (the Kindle DID do it first :P), it is certainly something I would be interested in. I would never buy/use an iPhone (ridiculously overpriced, and the way Apple handles apps pisses me off), and I'm not a big one for ebooks (I like to have something with pages, that smells like paper and glue :) ). However, I do like having a portable gaming system for long drives/flights, or just waiting around. One of the biggest problems I've had with the Nintendo systems is that you either have to carry around a ton of cartridges in order to play, or you have to be happy with one/two, and if you finish them or grow bored, you're SoL. The ability to DL a new game on the fly would make the purchase of this system a no-brainer for me... even if I only used it once every few months, I feel like I would be getting worthwhile value out of it.

There's already the DSi Shop (2, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951450)

One of the biggest problems I've had with the Nintendo systems is that you either have to carry around a ton of cartridges in order to play

Not on the DSi. It has a 256 MB microSD card soldered onto the motherboard for storing apps downloaded from the DSi Shop. The only thing that the article would change is that you don't have to walk to a restaurant to buy new apps.

The ability to DL a new game on the fly

Except 3G doesn't work so well on a jet airliner: too many handoffs per minute. You'd have to use the onboard Wi-Fi, which airlines would likely price for executives of medium to large businesses. And at that point, you could just use the DSi Shop.

Re:There's already the DSi Shop (1)

asills (230118) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951856)

A 3 hour flight is ten bucks for airplane WiFi. Now, I do acknowledge that is expensive (though on par with in-terminal WiFi access), but when you already paid $300+ on a plane ticket, another $10 is definitely not priced towards executives. Just factor that into your cost of airplane tickets next time you fly.

The multiplayer problem, in a different form (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29952004)

A 3 hour flight is ten bucks for airplane WiFi.

Times you, the SO, and how many kids?

Re:The multiplayer problem, in a different form (1)

dougisfunny (1200171) | more than 4 years ago | (#29953504)

That's why you bring a wireless bridge.

And get TOSsed off the net (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29953756)

The airplane's monopoly ISP's terms of service ban WLAN-to-WLAN bridges. Here's why: There are only three channels considered non-overlapping in Wi-Fi: 1, 6, and 11. If the network uses channel 11, what channels can three families of passengers use for their bridges?

Re:There's already the DSi Shop (1)

DrScotsman (857078) | more than 4 years ago | (#29961002)

you already paid $300+ on a plane ticket

Haha, the OP's country (which I'm not risking saying is the USA in case it's somewhere else with $) clearly does not have some equivalent to Ryanair.

Say what you want about Ryanair, but if a normal plane ticket costs $300, then for less than £10 (1p if you try hard) I'm very happy to have substandard customer service and not check in any bags. And both times I travelled with them the service wasn't even substandard.

Re:There's already the DSi Shop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29952776)

The DSi does has on-board flash storage... but why do you say it has a "microSD card"?

Re:There's already the DSi Shop (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29953574)

The DSi does has on-board flash storage... but why do you say it has a "microSD card"?

Because the interface between the system bus and the on-board flash is said to be identical to MMC or SD. This contrasts with the Wii, which uses a raw NAND flash chip that acts more like an xD-Picture card.

Re:Yet another revolution (1)

macshit (157376) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951550)

One of the biggest problems I've had with the Nintendo systems is that you either have to carry around a ton of cartridges in order to play, or you have to be happy with one/two, and if you finish them or grow bored, you're SoL.

On pre-DS systems I used to have the same complaint, but really, the cartridges for the DS are so small that I can carry 5-6 of them without even noticing (though I usually never end up playing more than 1 or 2).

The idea of free 3G is kinda cool though....

Re:Yet another revolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29952746)

The homebrew cart has you insert a microsd card, up to 16 gb. backup the carts you own as roms, as well as any ebooks you own, and you have the perfect plane/waiting room companion in the ds lite.

OMFG LuLZz also FIAL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29952622)

YOU FiaL IT11!1 lulz

Hack Frenzy (1)

BiggoronSword (1135013) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951152)

Without a doubt, as soon as a product that comes with "Free 3G," there will be hackers on it to enable tethering.

Re:Hack Frenzy (4, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951416)

Tethering your PC to an ISP that doesn't route packets to anything but Nintendo's Shop Channel servers won't accomplish much.

Re:Hack Frenzy (2, Insightful)

Urza9814 (883915) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951456)

Just like there was such a flurry of hacks to get cheap access thorough the Peek? Granted, I don't think it's 3G and it _is_ still $15 a month, but it's also incredibly cheap (both initially and per month). And like that frenzy of hacks for the Amazon Kindle? I mean that thing has free 3G....

Besides, all they'll have to do is put in some kind of bandwidth limit...or simply limit the connection to specific sites. I mean it's being used to download games, there's no reason not to lock it in to only be allowed data to the nintendo store.

Please NO! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29951174)

Just what my 9 and 4 year old brothers need. Another way to avoid normal conversation. When I was little, we played games together in the car, like finding license plates from every state, or all the letters of the alphabet on road signs. I know what every inch of the highway from Washington DC to New York looks like. My brothers are glued to their little screens and throw tantrums if I suggest they look out the window.

Re:Please NO! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29951468)

Fuck 'em. More prestige for you. You will enjoy graduating magna cum laude with guaranteed entry into the career field of your choice where you will succeed and become a sucessful billionaire philanthropist as well as a skilled conversationalist, and you will die a happy man with a trophy wife thirty years your junior.

Your brothers will become obese, lazy slobs with ramen and semen stains on their yellowed wife-beaters. They will have dropped out of high school and they will spend most of their free time living in mommy's basement collecting unemployment between game testing gigs. They will pick their noses and scratch their oniony balls in public, sometimes simultaneously. Their underwear will show traces of skid marks in the back and yellowy discharges in the front. One of them will smoke marihuana. They will speak as Cleveland's son does on Family Guy and nobody will be able to stand their company for more than two minutes at a time. They will one day be found dead at their own hands, hung in the basement with the power cords which came with their Alienware computers.

Re:Please NO! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29956618)

Hahahaha!! Oh shit, that made my day! Thanks man :)

Re:Please NO! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29951516)

Leave it up to their (your) parents. Nintendo isn't grafting them every child's hands, yet.

How does that work? (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951176)

Does he mean "in Japan" or "everywhere in the world"?

This sure won't work in Canada, where the cellphone providers have a stronghold on almost anything wireless.

Re:How does that work? (3, Interesting)

slim (1652) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951282)

Who knows. Probably Japan at first.

You have to bear in mind that none of this will really be free. The 3G connection will be used to download content, which will cost money. Some of that money will go to the 3G network provider.

Just like with Kindle, where a ebook sales provide Amazon enough money to pay for all that "free" browsing.

Re:How does that work? (1)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 4 years ago | (#29958670)

Which means rather than $4.99 games, you can expect $7.99 games.

Re:How does that work? (1)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951472)

Does he mean "in Japan" or "everywhere in the world"?

This sure won't work in Canada, where the cellphone providers have a stronghold on almost anything wireless.

It'll probably work much like the Kindle does...

Amazon has partnered with various wireless providers for the Kindle. The wireless isn't exactly free... You're paying for the Kindle, and you're using your wireless to download content purchases - part of that money goes to pay for the wireless access. So the wireless providers are getting paid for your usage. And it is in Amazon's (or Nintendo's) best interest to get as many wireless providers on-board as possible.

But to you, the user, it appears to be free because you aren't paying a monthly fee for a wireless plan.

Re:How does that work? (1)

Rotting (7243) | more than 4 years ago | (#29956572)

But we didn't get the Kindle in Canada. I know it's only speculation but I'm guessing it's because Robbers Wireless wouldn't budge on their ridiculously over inflated prices.

Re:How does that work? (2, Insightful)

chonglibloodsport (1270740) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951490)

Are you kidding? Bell, Rogers and Telus will be at each other's throats to offer the hottest new Nintendo product. They really don't care whether you pay for your data plan or if Nintendo does. Nintendo's habit of locking their devices down is also likely to appeal to these companies, since their goal is to collect monthly revenue without users doing anything on the network.

Re:How does that work? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29951648)

That was actually the question that occurred to me as well...

Is 3G really the problem? (2, Interesting)

emag (4640) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951208)

It seems to me that it's more the large number of developers, and the diversity of games/apps, that could be a bigger issue. Sure, immediacy is nice, but...if Nintendo keeps up the policy of charging multi-thousands of dollars for a dev kit, with a requirement that it _must_ be a business location (no home offices), I don't see 3G as being much help...

Re:Is 3G really the problem? (1)

noundi (1044080) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951726)

It seems to me that it's more the large number of developers, and the diversity of games/apps, that could be a bigger issue. Sure, immediacy is nice, but...if Nintendo keeps up the policy of charging multi-thousands of dollars for a dev kit, with a requirement that it _must_ be a business location (no home offices), I don't see 3G as being much help...

I don't understand. Are you saying that Nintendo should intentionally lower their revenue or raise the consumer price? Because you can forget the former, and I hope you will forget the latter. Nintendo consoles have plenty of developers. I don't see why you assume that there is a shortage.
 
So Nintendo runs a different business model, which obviously produces different results, and pays off. Would you much rather have 3 clones of console makers, than the two already existing (Microsoft & Sony) ones? You saw what happened to Sega, right? Nintendo chose their own path of innovation rather than expansion.
 
But yes, I'd much rather see lower console prices, lower game prices and lower licensing prices. Then again I'd be living in a fairytale. For now I'm happy with drawing the longer straw.

App Store (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951776)

Are you saying that Nintendo should intentionally lower their revenue or raise the consumer price?

No, emag and I are saying that Nintendo should follow Apple's model of the iPhone developer program and the App Store, which in turn is a carbon copy of Microsoft's XNA Creators Club and Xbox Live Indie Games. But instead, Nintendo chooses to discriminate against people for whom developing video games is something other than a day job.

Re:App Store (1)

Bagels (676159) | more than 4 years ago | (#29952334)

Playing devil's advocate for a moment: what truly amazing stuff have we seen from the "not-a-day-job" indie devs on the Microsoft and Apple stores? There have been several excellent indie games of late (Braid and World of Goo come to mind immediately), but I notice that they came from small teams who put their money where their mouths were and took on game dev full-time. The biggest exception I can think of is the fabled Cave Story, which saw enough success as a freeware game on Win/Mac/PSP that it's getting a WiiWare port from Nicalis... and Nicalis qualifies under Nintendo's requirements.

OK, no more devil's advocate. I think Nintendo is using their dev requirements as a crude quality filter. It doesn't feel fair (speaking as a sometimes indie dev myself), and there's a chance that they'll miss the next big thing that somebody cooks up in their garage... but they appear to be willing to take that risk. Guess it wouldn't sting quite as much in my case if there wasn't so much first-party crapware on the DSiWare store... clocks and calculators? I definitely prefer open platforms, even with the attendant flood of me-too crap.

Re:App Store (1)

realityimpaired (1668397) | more than 4 years ago | (#29952876)

There have been several excellent indie games of late (Braid and World of Goo come to mind immediately)

As a point of interest, World of Goo is available on WiiWare....

Re:App Store (1)

Bagels (676159) | more than 4 years ago | (#29953404)

More or less my point exactly (2DBoy satisfied Nintendo's requirements even as a tiny two-many indie outfit). Actually, all things considered Nintendo is doing *fantastic* with indie PC devs - they have 2DBoy (World of Goo), Nicalis (Cave Story, La Mulana, and Night Game), and the Super Meat Boy guys. Microsoft's presently got Jonathan Blow for Braid and Derek Yu for Spelunky, and Sony has Jenova Chen (flOw, Flower, etc) and Jonathan Mak (Everyday Shooter).

All in all, a good time to be a talented indie dev.

Re:App Store (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29953704)

what truly amazing stuff have we seen from the "not-a-day-job" indie devs on the Microsoft and Apple stores?

As far as I can tell, the route to a career in video game development is as follows:

  1. Release some freeware for Windows or Mac OS X in college.
  2. Find a full-time job, which will be outside the video game industry because you were born in the wrong city. Hold this job while working on some freeware and/or shareware in your spare time.
  3. Once step 2 produces enough money to live on for a year, move to a city that has a commercial video game development scene, and pick your highlights from steps 1 and 2 for your resume.

As of right now, steps 1 and 2 may target SWF, Java applet, Windows, Mac OS X, XNA, or iPhone. Nintendo and Sony won't even talk to you until step 3.

Re:App Store (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29956900)

Nintendo and Sony won't even talk to you until step 3.

Oh no, the road is longer than I thought it would be. Time to stop moving and start complaining.

The costs of moving (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29963042)

Anonymous Coward wrote:

Time to stop moving

I assume your comment was sarcasm. Do you know how much it costs to move to a city that has a commercial video game development scene?

Re:App Store (1)

noundi (1044080) | more than 4 years ago | (#29953772)

Are you saying that Nintendo should intentionally lower their revenue or raise the consumer price?

No, emag and I are saying that Nintendo should follow Apple's model of the iPhone developer program and the App Store, which in turn is a carbon copy of Microsoft's XNA Creators Club and Xbox Live Indie Games. But instead, Nintendo chooses to discriminate against people for whom developing video games is something other than a day job.

Wait what? Discriminate? Are you fucking serious? It's a source of income to match the revenue forecast. Either that comes from raising console prices/lowering dev kit prices, or keeping it the way it is. Not everybody is a homebrewer, so why should dev kits be considered as something "enjoyed by everyone"? Also as I clearly stated Nintendo is choosing another strategy, if you want to be a homebrewer perhaps it's not the console for you. But we already know that consoles cannot meet all criterias. However it is still very popular for indie developers, so all in all, I have lost nothing, so I'm still ok with drawing the longer straw.

Re:App Store (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29963026)

Not everybody is a homebrewer, so why should dev kits be considered as something "enjoyed by everyone"?

Games developed by homebrewers could be "enjoyed by everyone". If the additional revenue from the console maker's commission from sales of games developed by part-time developers outweigh the lost revenue from selling devkits at a reduced price, then revenue increases. Apple and Microsoft have recognized this; Nintendo has not.

if you want to be a homebrewer perhaps it's not the console for you.

Then what is?

Re:App Store (1)

noundi (1044080) | more than 4 years ago | (#29963228)

If the additional revenue from the console maker's commission from sales of games developed by part-time developers outweigh the lost revenue from selling devkits at a reduced price, then revenue increases.

And what would happen if all of these homebrewers, as (correct me if I'm wrong) is very likely amongst homebrewers, didn't bother to charge for their software? Look I'm not bashing the idea of homebrewing, but obviously Nintendo values their ordinary players/consumers the most. Their products are way cheaper for the average consumer than their competitors.

Then what is?

Aren't Xbox and Playstation dev kits cheap?

Microsoft uses a price floor (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29963908)

And what would happen if all of these homebrewers, as (correct me if I'm wrong) is very likely amongst homebrewers, didn't bother to charge for their software?

Microsoft already solved this in its Xbox Live Indie Games environment: a price floor of 400 MP ($5.00), or 200 MP for games weighing under some size in megabytes.

Re:Is 3G really the problem? (2, Insightful)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951760)

It seems to me that it's more the large number of developers, and the diversity of games/apps, that could be a bigger issue. Sure, immediacy is nice, but...if Nintendo keeps up the policy of charging multi-thousands of dollars for a dev kit, with a requirement that it _must_ be a business location (no home offices), I don't see 3G as being much help...

I disagree.

Nintendo has always produced entertainment devices. Sure, there have been a few productivity apps shoehorned into the GameBoy in the past... But the vast majority of their software is games. I don't see Nintendo selling a device that is primarily a PDA or GPS or phone anytime soon.

The iPhone is competing in the smartphone arena. Folks with smartphones are used to being able to buy random apps on-line and install them. Folks with smartphones are used to being able to buy small little utilities for a couple dollars, or download free programs.

Nintendo does not compete in that market. Nintendo is competing in the console/handheld market. Yes, there are homebrew games and mod communities... But, for the most part, the console/handheld market is all about fairly large publishers, development kits, DRM, and licensing.

I think what we're seeing here is kind of a convergence of forces...

Nintendo is seeing devices like the Kindle, and thinking we could do that. The GameBoy has enough processing power to run an ebook reader for sure... And the hardware is getting cheap enough that there's no reason you couldn't stick a 3G modem in there. Maybe it wouldn't be the primary use of the GameBoy, but they could maybe steal some sales.

Nintendo is seeing devices like the iPhone, which is not primarily a gaming device, but is being used for gaming. Folks will be sitting at the DMV or whatever, bored, and grab some random $2 game for the iPhone just to kill some time. Nintendo would like to get in on this market. Maybe most of their sales would still be cartridges sold at a store...but they could probably get some impulse sales.

But, I think, the biggest factor is that people are getting used to having always-on access to the Internet in some capacity.

Pretty much every cell phone these days is capable of Internet access. You don't even need to buy a smartphone anymore. And most cell phones can run some sort of games. People are used to being able to just push a couple buttons on their phone and get a ringtone or a game or some wallpaper.

Smartphones are offering application marketplaces on-line. No need to go to a store and buy a physical product. Just push a couple buttons and you've got your software delivered right to your phone, no matter where you are.

Folks are using DVRs to watch TV when and how they want it. Or they're watching TV on Hulu or something similar. Again, on-demand and pretty much wherever you are.

The idea that you have to go to a store and buy a physical item, even for a simple pile of minigames like Brain Age, is a bit outdated. Maybe it wouldn't make sense to download 5+ GB of data wirelessly... But we're not talking about a PS3 here - this is a GameBoy. I'd be surprised if the games are much bigger than 1 GB.

So, Nintendo is looking at this instant-gratification marketplace... Where people want to be able to get a new game just by pushing a couple buttons, wherever they are. They're seeing the iPhone steal some of their thunder not because it is a spectacular gaming platform, but just because it's got that instant-gratification marketplace. They're looking at the Kindle and thinking we could steal some of their thunder. And they're looking at the actual costs of putting that hardware into their next device and thinking why the hell not?

Sure, a more open marketplace would be nice... It'd be great if you could publish games for free on the GameBoy... It'd be nice if they didn't require so much just to get developer access... But I really don't think that's going to be as much of a hindrance as you seem to.

Most of the folks buying games for a handheld/console are looking for a fairly finished and polished product. They're used to paying a good chunk of change for their games.

However, to be truly honest, I think a 3G wireless connection makes the most sense for impulse purchases. Little $1-5 games that download almost instantly. And Nintendo's current developer strategies will not work for such impulse buys.

I think that if Nintendo does roll out some kind of universal/free 3G on their next device, you'll also see changes in their development model.

Re:Is 3G really the problem? (2, Interesting)

electrosoccertux (874415) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951968)

Yawn, getting tired of this excuse. You don't _really_ want a dev kit to make games on it, you want a dev kit so you can pirate games.
There are other open portable gaming devices you could use for your supposed home-brew-game-programming desires.

If there were more than the 250 people other than you that actually cared about a dev kit, they would do something about it.
Quit deluding yourself into thinking your desires are an important market segment worth catering to.

Re:Is 3G really the problem? (3, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29952064)

You don't _really_ want a dev kit to make games on it, you want a dev kit so you can pirate games.

Say I start by making a PC-based demo of the game in question. "I made this game, but Nintendo and Sony won't let me port it to their hardware." Would such a whine sound more credible?

There are other open portable gaming devices

Which of them have a distributor in the United States? Best Buy has never heard of a "GP2X" or a "Dingoo", and Pandora isn't out yet.

Re:Is 3G really the problem? (1)

electrosoccertux (874415) | more than 4 years ago | (#29955234)

You don't _really_ want a dev kit to make games on it, you want a dev kit so you can pirate games.

Say I start by making a PC-based demo of the game in question. "I made this game, but Nintendo and Sony won't let me port it to their hardware." Would such a whine sound more credible?

There are other open portable gaming devices

Which of them have a distributor in the United States? Best Buy has never heard of a "GP2X" or a "Dingoo", and Pandora isn't out yet.

Ebay, Amazon, etc.

As for porting it to their system, last I looked at the shelves in Walmart there were already enough crapware titles on the GBA and Nintendo DS. They want to avoid another Atari collapse from too many crap games.

If the game and workers are talented enough to create a fun game, they probably won't have trouble getting investment from a VC to fund their work.

I don't see this working (3, Interesting)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951226)

The ebook readers can get away with this cheaply because ebooks don't take up much space. Games on the other hand can be quite large, and I imagine the next-gen games meant to compete with the iPhone 3GS (which has more powerful hardware than both the current DSi and and PSP Go) will be even larger. Can Nintendo really front the costs to provide access to this service without increasing game price?

Size of Wii Shop Channel games (4, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951514)

Games on the other hand can be quite large

How large? Classic NES, Super NES, Game Boy, and Game Boy Color games are 4 MiB or less (with a handful of exceptions). Even a DS-native game like Animal Crossing: Wild World is only 32 MiB. Compare that to the 256 MB of internal memory on a DSi or the 4 GB card in the DSi's SDHC slot.

more powerful hardware

Wii has more powerful hardware than the DS, but Wii Shop Channel games still weigh in less than 48 MB. (There are roughly eight "blocks" in 1 MB.)

Can Nintendo really front the costs to provide access to this service without increasing game price?

Full-size games cost $30 to $40 in the United States, partly due to the cost of making and shipping Game Cards. Do you think the 3G airtime to download, say, a 64 MB game will cost more than making and shipping a Game Card?

Re:Size of Wii Shop Channel games (1)

AlXtreme (223728) | more than 4 years ago | (#29952580)

Do you think the 3G airtime to download, say, a 64 MB game will cost more than making and shipping a Game Card?

On a national level it wouldn't be a problem, but don't forget that international data roaming charges are insane (EUR 2/MB for me). That would make downloading games rather expensive.

I have no doubt that Nintendo would be able to strike a much better deal, but with 200MB DS games out there they will have to get quite a bargain if they want to make this cost-effective internationally.

Re:Size of Wii Shop Channel games (1)

arose (644256) | more than 4 years ago | (#29953318)

You are thinking too much in terms of current mobile contracts. Your DS wouldn't have international roaming because you wouldn't have a contract to give it a 'home country'. Instead Nintendo has agreements with various networks in different countries, so that when you download a game in Germany Nintendo pays the local provider the negotiated rate, not the rate your American network dreamed up together with the German network for when you visit with your American cell phone.

Region coding saves money this time (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29953664)

international data roaming charges

Your handheld won't even try to download games while on another continent as a side effect of the region coding that Nintendo has been using since DSi.

Re:Size of Wii Shop Channel games (1)

Eil (82413) | more than 4 years ago | (#29955792)

In Nintendo's defense, I have to say that in order to innovate, you have to design your ideas and products to fit the future rather than the present. Most of us here on Slashdot can probably remember a time when multiple games would fit on a single floppy disk. Many can also recall how nearly every new version of Quake or Doom required a top-of-the-line PC to play at the time of release.

The only problem with Nintendo's plans is that the cellular telcos have traditionally refused to upgrade or adapt their networks in any way, unless said modifications enable new strategic methods to nickel-and-dime their customers.

DS games as big as 256MB (1)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 4 years ago | (#29957980)

DS games are as big as 256MB, compression varies. DSi games stored on SD cards could be much larger, and they may need the extra storage space since the DSi has upgraded hardware specifications (speed, memory, etc) compared to previous DS models. DSi exclusive games could use larger textures, higher bitrate videos, etc.

Re:Size of Wii Shop Channel games (1)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 4 years ago | (#29958696)

Full-size games cost $30 to $40 in the United States, partly due to the cost of making and shipping Game Cards. Do you think the 3G airtime to download, say, a 64 MB game will cost more than making and shipping a Game Card?

That really depends on how many times you re-download it, doesn't it?

And also where you do the downloading.

Re:Size of Wii Shop Channel games (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 4 years ago | (#29961432)

Even a DS-native game like Animal Crossing: Wild World is only 32 MiB.

An early, small DS-native game. It's not uncommon now to see DS games in the 128-256MiB, with the line being pushed to 512MiB(upcoming Ninokuni: The Another World).

Re:I don't see this working (1)

Ogive17 (691899) | more than 4 years ago | (#29952444)

Cost per download is probably less than cost per catridge, packaging and distribution.

Translation flavor (2, Interesting)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951286)

"That doesn't fit Nintendo customers because we make amusement products,' Mr Iwata said."

This guy sounds sane, unlike the crazies in the US industry where the sleazebags ramble on about "life style" and what not.

I'll stick with the iPhone (2, Interesting)

wandazulu (265281) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951328)

I loved my dslite, and played it a lot, and there are lots of games (lots and lots) of games that I had a lot of fun with (Mario Kart especially). I don't think I'll get another one only because the games I have on the iPhone, while not Mario Kart or Nintendo-quality, are good enough for what I want to do, which is kill some time on the bus or in a line. Plus, as it's my phone, I'm going to always have it with me.

Comparing the games I've played on the ds and the iphone, the only difference is that a majority of the games on the iphone seem to be trial balloons from established companies (EA, Sega), and home-brew games that are of varying degrees of quality. What I don't see is a major benefit of the ds hardware over the iphone. Yes I can pull out the game cart quickly get going with another game, but I've lost several carts and that's $40+ down the drain. With the phone, the app is actually installed and I don't see any excessive start lag that wouldn't be there in a cart game too (setting up the db, loading graphics, initializing the engine, etc.). From a graphics, sound, networking, etc., standpoint, I don't see anything the ds can do that the iphone can't (okay, yes, there are two screens, but that's not a "killer features" as far as I'm concerned; if anything, I've never been very good at keeping focus on the "right" screen at the right time).

I can appreciate we won't see Mario Kart on the iPhone soon, if ever, but I'd think that there are plenty of other companies developing for the ds who, if they wrote an iphone version, would be opening up a whole new market for themselves. I know there's been articles about iphone app piracy that you don't have as much with a cart, so I guess that's a legitimate concern. That said, I know lots of iphone users, none of them even know what jailbreaking is; are there really more iphone users "in the know" about how to pirate an app than users who just buy their apps and go about their business?

I appreciate this sounds very fanboy-ish, but as someone who had an ipod, a phone, and a dslite...I was carrying around a lot of stuff. The iphone, for me, consolidates everything into one package and there's no reason I'd want to go back.

DS and PSP have D-pad and buttons (4, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951592)

What I don't see is a major benefit of the ds hardware over the iphone.

A lot of DS and PSP fanboys on Slashdot prefer the tactile response of the directional pad and physical buttons on the "traditional" handhelds over the flat multitouch screen of an iPod Touch. Some of the members of tetrisconcept.net and harddrop.com (forums for hardcore Tetris fans) have tried Tetris on an iPhone, and the control scheme wasn't suitable for the sort of 100+ piece per minute play that they're used to.

as someone who had an ipod, a phone, and a dslite...I was carrying around a lot of stuff. The iphone, for me, consolidates everything into one package

I'm currently on a $5 per month plan at Virgin Mobile because I don't text or use a lot of minutes. I looked into an iPhone and found the convenience of a single device not worth the money for the required voice and data plans.

Re:DS and PSP have D-pad and buttons (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29958282)

What is this $5/month plan you speak of?

Re:DS and PSP have D-pad and buttons (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29962520)

Virgin Mobile USA's cheapest plan costs $15 plus sales tax every 3 months. There's no way a smartphone plan will ever be that cheap, at least not in the United States of America.

Re:I'll stick with the iPhone (1)

roachdabug (1198259) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951892)

The iPhone definitely expands the (Things I can do):(Things in my pockets) ratio by an order of magnitude or two, but I don't think it will ever deliver the same kind of gaming experience as a DS or PSP. Maybe it's my dislike for EA or my refusal to pay +$10 for a game when there are so many thousands of options in the $0-$1.99 range, but it seems like games approaching the sort of quality we take for granted on a DS are few and far between.

I'll never carry a DS because, as you said, the iPhone is good enough to kill some time on the bus or standing in line. But after a long day of texting, facebook, internet browsing, phone calls, etc., etc., if you fire up a 3D game like minigore or dungeon hunter you can almost hear the battery scream. While the accelerometer and multi-touch screen allow quite a bit of flexibility, sometimes you just can't beat a D-pad and a couple of real buttons.

In spite of the convenience of the one-device-to-rule-them-all, I think there will always be a market for some sort of game-centric portable device.

Re:I'll stick with the iPhone (1)

jittles (1613415) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951990)

I know there's been articles about iphone app piracy that you don't have as much with a cart, so I guess that's a legitimate concern.

Are you serious? Pirating DS games is trivial. If I owned a DS I'd buy one of these cards [r4isdhc.net] . Not to pirate games, but just so that I wouldn't have to carry around all my cartridges on an airplane.

Re:I'll stick with the iPhone (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 4 years ago | (#29952522)

What I don't see is a major benefit of the ds hardware over the iphone. Yes I can pull out the game cart quickly get going with another game, but I've lost several carts and that's $40+ down the drain.

Except when their DRM server or whatever thing the device phones home to is discontinued, or your device's memory gets corrupt, or you want to play those games on another device without paying for them all again, or you want to sell a game to someone else. A physical cartridge doesn't have any of the above problems, but like you said, you have to keep from losing them.

Re:I'll stick with the iPhone (1)

wandazulu (265281) | more than 4 years ago | (#29954246)

Except when their DRM server or whatever thing the device phones home to is discontinued, or your device's memory gets corrupt, or you want to play those games on another device without paying for them all again, or you want to sell a game to someone else. A physical cartridge doesn't have any of the above problems, but like you said, you have to keep from losing them.

I have an iPhone and an iPod touch; one purchase allows me to use the app on both devices, simultaneously. Both my kids like a particular paint program, and they both use it on each of the devices and try to out-do the other.

There is no DRM server as far as I know in that the iPod touch doesn't have any way to phone home; it's connected to whatever wireless network I let it connect to. Apple has stated there is a "kill switch" in the iphone OS, but that is an explicit thing...we are going to delete this app because there's something so wrong with it ("wrong" being a very nebulous term, I realize) that we don't want you to have it. Amazon tried that with the Kindle and it didn't work out so well for them, to the point that they'd say they wouldn't do it again, essentially making the kill switch worthless. Apple would have the same problem...the public outcry would presumably be so great that they'd have to have a very very good reason to do so (it was a malicious app that was stealing your stuff, kicking your puppy, bricking your phone, etc.) and even *then* they'd still get flak for it.

A backup of your phone/touch is made when you sync it, so even if something did get totally hosed, you'd still be able to recover. I can personally vouch for this; I restored my ipod touch to a pristine state, with all the apps, after doing a weekend aborted jailbreak test that left it more or less catatonic.

Who gave this troll mod points? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29959426)

What I don't see is a major benefit of the ds hardware over the iphone.

When the iPhone battery starts giving you 15 to 20 hours of gaming time, you can start comparing it to the DS. Until then, the iPhone remains a phone that turns into a paperweight after six hours of playing games.

Re:I'll stick with the iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29960790)

No professional developer in their right mind would trust Apple as the gatekeeper to the iPhone. It's just not worth justifying the time, money and effort - if Apple can turn around and say "well.. we're not going to approve this app... just because."

The exceptions here are probably the large companies like EA and Sega. Mostly because they're the ones up on stage at the Apple conference dancing like a monkey for Steve Jobs - and they have access to resources at Apple that nobody else does.

The Sony PSP is where it *should* be. The hardware is decent - fast processor, okay graphics, good controls beside the analog stick, WiFi - and they've got a growing online store. What they don't have is a semi-open platform (ie: I can't just go and download the SDK) - and they don't have the hardware sales of the iPhone.

Price Points (3, Insightful)

Reason58 (775044) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951330)

The challenge is to offer the immediacy of downloading an inexpensive new game, anywhere, anytime, without forcing the user into some kind of monthly data plan.

There won't be a monthly plan, because it was be bundled into the price upfront. I also wouldn't be surprised if the median owner rarely used their 3G connection, and were subsidizing the small minority who uses it. There's a problem when Nintendo's handheld is more expensive than their full console. Especially when a large part of the success for the Wii is attributed to it's low price point.

Re:Price Points (1)

porcupine8 (816071) | more than 4 years ago | (#29964142)

The whole cost doesn't have to be bundled into the hardware - the purpose of the wireless access is so you can download games from their store. Charge a few extra bucks per game and you probably more than balance out the cost of transmitting it, especially for smaller old-school games, while keeping the cost well below buying a cartridge in a store.

Not gonna happen (1)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951384)

A 3G chip adds manufacturing cost, won't play well in all countries (look at how the kindle has had functionality removed outside the US), can be incredibly slow depending on the network and location, will be incredibly expensive for the 500mb+ downloads that will probably make up DS2 games...

Re:Not gonna happen (2, Informative)

Tetsujin (103070) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951944)

A 3G chip adds manufacturing cost, won't play well in all countries (look at how the kindle has had functionality removed outside the US), can be incredibly slow depending on the network and location, will be incredibly expensive for the 500mb+ downloads that will probably make up DS2 games...

Go back and read tepples' post about the typical size of current Nintendo games...

Current DS games are only around 32MB. Wii Ware games tend to be around 50MB. Do you really think the games in Nintendo's next handheld are going to be over ten times that size?

Re:Not gonna happen (1)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 4 years ago | (#29955214)

Yes?

Ninokuni will be on a 4gigabit (512mb) cart and will fill it to the brim.

The DS has had its hardware maxed out for years (thanks to it having a hard limit on how many polygons it can display and tiny texture memory). The hardware was fairly weak at launch let alone now.

With a significant spec boost that the DS2 is looking to receive from the ARM based ION platform rumoured, developers will easily match the 300mb-1.5gigs that most full retail PSP downloads take up.

Re:Not gonna happen (1)

Tetsujin (103070) | more than 4 years ago | (#29956436)

Yes?

Ninokuni will be on a 4gigabit (512mb) cart and will fill it to the brim.

Still, this is Nintendo we're talking about. Think about the specs on the Wii, for instance, and then tell me about how Nintendo's next handheld is going to be a huge upgrade in terms of storage and capabilities over the DS. :)

Also, Ninokuni is decidedly not typical of a DS game - even new ones...

Re:Not gonna happen (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 4 years ago | (#29961450)

And the responses. Tepples' numbers are wrong.

Holy hell (1)

slimjim8094 (941042) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951410)

that'll be expensive...

Good luck Nintendo. They better be building this cost into online game sales...

Re:Holy hell (1)

realityimpaired (1668397) | more than 4 years ago | (#29953080)

They're trading a production/distribution model that requires banking on how many units will sell, and producing that many (or slightly more), and distributing them to stores in the hopes that none of the stores will run out, with one that allows them to immediately produce a copy on demand, and pay for distribution only when it's actually needed.

It's not going to be *that* expensive. They're limiting network access to their store, and the games aren't *that* big. The cartridges can store 256MB or larger cards, but the DSWare/WiiWare titles are usually nowhere near that size, because of the download time. And cellular bandwidth isn't that expensive at all... for my smart phone, I could up my network bandwidth from 500MB to 1GB/month for $5, and that's in Canada, one of the most expensive countries in the world as far as cellular connectivity goes. In Japan, things are much cheaper, and they're buying bandwidth in bulk to boot.

Awesome (1)

dandart (1274360) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951486)

Free, speedy Internet. Who'd have thought?

Skeptical (1)

Itchyeyes (908311) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951556)

I'm skeptical of how successful this can be. For one thing, their analogy is flawed. It's easy to build the price wireless of service for ebooks into the purchase price because ebooks are, on average, less than 1MB in size. Contrast that with modern portable games, which can regularly exceed 1GB in file size. If Nintendo plans to build that cost into the price of games, they could be looking at a substantial markup. Also, acquiring the game is not the only consideration for portable game buyers. They'll also want online functionality within many games. Does Nintendo plan to offer this without subscription charges as well? How will they fund it?

The other problem with this is that it doesn't really address the main reason why so many people are opting for games on platforms like the iPhone, convenience. Despite Sony's and Nintendo's (best?) efforts, the DS and PSP are still pretty much only gaming devices in a world where mobile phones are becoming an increasingly convergent platform. Sony and Nintendo still provide a better gaming experience, but for a lot of people who are just looking to pass a few minutes of free time while they're on the go, mobile phones are increasingly "good enough". Why shell out another $100-$200 for a portable device, plus $30-$40 for games (not to mention deal with the logistics of charging and carrying a second device), when you've already got something in your pocket that replicates, say 70-80% of the functionality of a dedicated device? For some, the answer to that question is obviously "because the games are better". But as mobile phones get more and more powerful, that group will get smaller and smaller.

Friend codes (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951668)

ebooks are, on average, less than 1MB in size. Contrast that with modern portable games, which can regularly exceed 1GB in file size. If Nintendo plans to build that cost into the price of games, they could be looking at a substantial markup.

I addressed that in this post [slashdot.org] .

Also, acquiring the game is not the only consideration for portable game buyers. They'll also want online functionality within many games.

But how many friend codes do you think a player can gather? Playing without a friend code is little different from playing against the CPU.

Re:Skeptical (4, Insightful)

tonycheese (921278) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951854)

Perhaps I'm biased, since I love my DS, but I really don't see how the iPhone is hurting the DS in any way. My girlfriend owns both a DS and an iPhone and beyond the initial "Oh look at this cool game!" reaction, I've never seen her play a single game on the iPhone.
Are there really games on the iPhone that people would be willing to invest time on? Even with all the hype and articles about the issue, I really don't get the sense at all that the iPhone is in any way taking customers from Nintendo or Sony. Saying iPhone games are convenient is like saying regular cell phone brick games or tetris games are convenient - it doesn't change the fact that it'll drain your battery in an hour and fifteen minutes and isn't particularly engaging anyway.

There's no way an iPhone replicates "70-80%" of the functionality of a DS or PSP, they're two different things.

The way I see it, Nintendo isn't looking to gain back market share or anything - its sales definitely are not weak or faltering in any way, 115 million units compared to the PSP's 56 (or the iPhone's 21). Instead, they're probably just looking to expand their market more and more, and they may feel that downloading little or full-size games whenever the user wants may be the way to do it.

Re:Skeptical (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29952176)

Perhaps I'm biased, since I love my DS, but I really don't see how the iPhone is hurting the DS in any way. My girlfriend /.../

What kind of portable device do you call 'girlfriend' ?

Re:Skeptical (1)

Itchyeyes (908311) | more than 4 years ago | (#29952264)

I don't really have much to say about your argument other than I think your personal experience is somewhat subjective. As evidence I'd just point out that the iPhone games market is something that is clearly on the minds of people at Sony and Nintendo. Since the iPhone has launched both Sony and Nintendo have introduces low priced, downloable tiers to their platforms (DSiWare and "snackable" games on the PSN) to compete directly with the game market on the iPhone. And in this very article, Iwata directly compares this possible download system to that of the iPhone.

As for the issue of how much functionality the iPhone replicates... I think it varies from title to title, but the iPhone most certainly does replicate some of the functionality of the DS. For example, the iPhone version of Civ Rev is nearly identical to the DS version.

Next Up!!! (1)

adeydas (837049) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951600)

Next up... 3G on Casio calculators...

Sabotage their own market? (1)

grapeape (137008) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951612)

Nintendo is famous for not buying into the "all-in-one" device and has always focused on games only. Adding 3g sounds interesting but its reality is really limiting. This would likely be only for access to DSi type mini game downloads since actually supporting online gaming with "free" g3 is financially impossible unless the handheld is prohibitively expensive. There is also the added cost of supporting different architectures since there is no real global standard for cellular technology.

No New Nintendo Handheld in Canada, then... (1)

swchurchill (1098519) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951636)

Given that Canada is STILL one of the countries you can't get the Kindle in - our wireless companies have things monopolized and locked down to the point that there's no money in it for them to bring it here - guess that means any new Nintendo HH with built-in 3G would suffer the same fate.

UNBundle the connection, then sell separately (2, Insightful)

hellfire (86129) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951866)

Okay, we need to get moving faster on wireless networking oversight. It's getting worse than the cable/dsl nightmare of crappy service and quality they provide. How about we unbundle these wireless connections from their devices and simply allow us to select the right one and drop in the appropriate chip? Someone put some pressure on the US market to standardize on something. then have them compete on price, speed, service, and support. Right now they compete with lock in and fancy stupid commercials.

And it's not "free". At the very least, it's included with the price of the device. And how does one exactly subsidize that on a single device? It's $30 a month for the iPhone data plan, that's $360 a year in fees. Are they going to tack on $360 to the price of the device? And how do they expect to do this in multiple countries? And in the US will anyone accept the hit their network is going to take? They saw the iPhone, they should be wary of the nintendo with 3G wireless.

There are too many questions here, and so many fail points. The best way to serve consumers is to UNBundle the wireless component so we can all make choices. I'd love to be able to do that on all the networks, and I'd sacrifice visual voicemail to do it.

If it follows the Kindle model. . . (4, Insightful)

JSBiff (87824) | more than 4 years ago | (#29952012)

I don't have a Kindle, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the concept is, the Kindle isn't a 'general purpose' Internet device, like a smart phone - that is, I don't think you can really just browse the web, stream audio and video from youtube, hulu, or whatever. Basically, the data connection on the Kindle is special-purpose - for downloading Kindle eBooks/eZines/eNewspapers, which are a) relatively small, and b) the price of the 3G network bandwidth for the download is essentially bundled in the price of the content you purchase.

So, Amazon, I think, worked out a deal with carriers in different countries to pay for the cost of the downloads, by sharing the revenue generated by the content purchases with the network operators(granted, there is also some activity, like the user browsing the amazon kindle 'store', which doesn't directly generate revenue, but which is recovered by the user purchases).

In such a business model, the individual users are probably generating, collectively, much less bandwidth-use per device (on average) than your average smart-phone user, so the costs to the 3G network operator are relatively small. Any users who are using a lot more bandwidth than the average user are also paying a lot more for content than the average user, so the high-use users pay for themselves (as do the low-use users).

I could very easily see Nintendo working out such a deal with network operators if the only thing the online connectivity is used for is browsing the Nintendo store to find and purchase games/DLC, and then download the games after purchase. If, however, the Nintendo device allows web browsing and online play against/with other Nintendo users, then I have a harder time seeing that business model succeed (because the users, then, aren't necessarily paying indirectly for all the network bandwidth they use).

Until... (1)

cigawoot (1242378) | more than 4 years ago | (#29951934)

it gets hacked and people tether it to get free 3G data access. Its happened in the past, and it can happen again, especially with Nintendo's stellar record of console security.

Thousands of yen per month? (1)

ircmaxell (1117387) | more than 4 years ago | (#29952524)

From the FT piece: 'Only people who can pay thousands of yen a month [in mobile phone subscriptions] can be iPhone customers.'

Ummm, 1000 Yen ~= $10 USD. So paying thousands == between $10 and $100 per month (I think most people here fall into the higher end of that range). I fail to see how that's an astonishing figure worth pointing out...

Re:Thousands of yen per month? (1)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 4 years ago | (#29952858)

$100 per month just for access to a mobile data network is a fair chunk of change to most people and considering that kids are a big segment of Nintendo's consumer base...

Re:Thousands of yen per month? (1)

ircmaxell (1117387) | more than 4 years ago | (#29953114)

Well, if you told me that it would cost me tens of dollars per month, in my mind that means 12, 15, 20, perhaps even 30... But if you said it was 90, while technically correct, I think it is misleading... That was my point...

Re:Thousands of yen per month? (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 4 years ago | (#29954056)

It's worth pointing out, because if their next gaming device cost $90, $50, or $20 a month to use its features, it would fail miserably. I don't think Nintendo is competing with the iPhone at all; but if it is, it's by owning the audience from 8 to 18 years old, and then holding on to them as they age.

Nintendo is a smart and conservative company, and they're looking at the long haul. Apple's model is far more unstable; it'll collapse again as soon as the fashion tides change.

As long as there's still a physical media option.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29953188)

...I'll buy it. If it's downloaded games-only, I won't.

As hard as it is to believe, there are some of us out there who still prefer games in a tangible format with a box and a manual and aren't going to cease wanting physical copies of games in the next generation of consoles and handhelds (and every generation after).

Yay for more people crowding... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29953602)

Yay for more people crowding the network that I have to pay for. I don't care how much it's routed and packet shaped, they're getting bandwidth free that I have to pay for in LARGE sums per month and still get crappy quality of service.

dean miller (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29961654)

thanks for the nice topic and review.
is it really true? if true than itz a kool news.
i like nintendo.. though i dont have one yet...
http://www.buyergen.com

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