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Pirate Bay Closure Sparked P2P Explosion

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 3 years ago | from the can't-stop-the-signal-mal dept.

560

Barence writes to share that the closure of The Pirate Bay seems to have done nothing to stem the flow of potentially copyrighted materials. In fact, there has been an estimated 300% increase in the number of sites providing access to copyright files, according to McAfee. "In August, Swedish courts ordered that all traffic be blocked from Pirate Bay, but any hope of scotching the piracy of music, software and films over the web vanished as copycat sites sprung up and the content took on a life of its own. 'This was a true "cloud computing" effort,' the company said in its Threats Report for the third quarter. 'The masses stepped up to make this database of torrents available to others.'"

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Note - (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954428)

That in the meantime readership of slashdot continues to drop.

Eh Sonny? (4, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954434)

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."

Re:Eh Sonny? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954540)

Just sayin. [torrentz.com]

Re:Eh Sonny? (5, Funny)

Conspiracy_Of_Doves (236787) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954742)

"Strike me down and i will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"

Re:Eh Sonny? (4, Funny)

Sumbius (1500703) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954948)

Commander, tear this ship apart until you have found those torrents, and bring me the seeders! I want them alive!

Re:Eh Sonny? (5, Informative)

squidfood (149212) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954792)

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."

Yah, this sort of behavior should be called the Tarkin Effect, not the streisandeffect as currently tagged.

And Slashdot cheers on the pirates (1, Troll)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954930)

Look at Slashdot cheering at the piracy. It's really sickening how much Slashdot LOVES piracy now and encourages it at every opportunity.

Re:Eh Sonny? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29955066)

Routing around damage yet again

Sigh... (3, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954468)

It's kind of pathetic to watch the industry and the courts try to stomp this out. Perhaps if more judges, politicians and corporate leaders were familiar with history, they'd know that once the genie is out of the bottle, you can't put it back in. Smashing printing presses didn't exactly stomp out the increasing speed and distribution that information often unfriendly to Our Betters (kings, politicians, merchants, Church leaders, whoever) received with that technology. Everyone had to bloody well learn to live with a completely altered information landscape.

The whole battle against P2P is looking increasingly like tilting at windmills. Perhaps, at the end of the day, that's an awfully good description for this whole cabal; they are indeed qixotic.

Re:Sigh... (4, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954614)

I dont think their purpose even is to completely win the battle, but to make it inconvenient enough for casual people to get stuff for free. It's the same thing with DRM - it doesn't keep the hardcore pirates off who are there to break it, but it surely keeps casual people from copying to friends and so on.

If the big torrent sites will start having lots of trouble with law and courts, they will close the shop. All the big sites TPB, Mininova, Demonoid and Isohunt are either down or on changing their model (mininova) under pressure. Yeah lots of small sites and copycats will obviously pop in, but they wont be that kind of "big" sites anymore and will have less users and casual people will have harder time finding what they want.

It's useless to care about the pirates who would do it anyway, is a smaller group and usually dont have that much disposable income anyway. But it's the casual people and adults - your idea about piracy will change after you start getting more disposable income, like happened for me and lots of my friends and now happily buy what we enjoy (and another reason was the quality improvement and easiness of Steam and Spotify and other legit services).

Re:Sigh... (2, Insightful)

Splab (574204) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954736)

Yes except not. What happens when a large torrent site closes is a lot of people see it as an oportunity to fill a void in a lucrative market. Over time the sites will slowly but surely merge into bigger sites like the pirate bay, rince repeat - until some new technology comes along which is more convinient for users in some way.

Re:Sigh... (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954902)

You missed my point. Of course there will be new sites. But in the same time it will be harder for casual people to get their pirated copies and go for the extra work to do it. Some might test legal alternatives too and actually find them useful and convenient (steam, spotify, some tv show services in my country have actually become really convenient to use, even lots of more than to pirate).

Re:Sigh... (4, Interesting)

Hojima (1228978) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954748)

Sooner or later, freenet will become more popular, and all searches for illegal downloads will become native to the client. And with the encryption that it offers, there will be no stopping people from getting what they want. Rather, the companies might wisen up and start giving incentives to buy, rather than treat their customers like scum.

Re:Sigh... (1)

TheCarp (96830) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954880)

As much as I liked the concept of freenet, I never found it really fast enough or reliable enough to be useful. It has some great concepts, and theories of operation. In THEORY it could even be more efficient than the web by moving the content closer to where it is desired, and making popular content more available. However, it was always slow, and often unable to find even some of its more popular nodes.

Has it improved since I last tried it (maybe 4 years ago?). I see a lot more use in something like tor with its location hidden services than Freenet. Maybe some unholy meld of the two could work... caching front end servers that get their content from freenet, and use tor location hidden services to provide that service... but I am not sure what advantages you would get in reality, except for free data replication/recovery in case one of your front ends was taken down?

That is, unless all you want to do is publish static content for others consumption. That has its useses. However, its still very limited due to the latency and connectivity issues.

-Steve

Re:Sigh... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954986)

Freenet has improved dramatically in the past couple years.

Latency is still a bit high -- typically 5-15 seconds to load a freesite; possibly faster or slower than that depending on size and popularity. Throughput is decent -- I've downloaded large files at over 100KiB/s, and that was probably limited by my bandwidth settings rather than the network.

It's still slow and unreliable. But it's getting better -- and it's certainly good enough for downloading movies, if you don't require bittorrent speeds, and the file was uploaded within, say, the past month.

anoNet (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954990)

Personally I like the concept of anoNet [wikipedia.org] more and it's a bit more interesting too, as it allows all the usual software (browser, p2p software, http/irc server etc) to work.

anoNet is a decentralized friend-to-friend network built using VPNs and software BGP routers. anoNet works by making it difficult to learn the identities of others on the network allowing them to anonymously host content and IPv4 services.

It is impossible on the Internet to communicate with another host without knowing its IP address. Thus, the anoNet realizes that you will be known to your peer, along with the /30 subnet used for communicating with them. A routing protocol, BGP, allows any node to advertise any routes they like, and this seemingly chaotic method is what provides users with anonymity. Once a node advertises a new route, it is hard for anyone else to determine if it is a route to another machine in another country via VPN, or just a dummy interface on that users machine.

It's a fun thing to try out, since you can normally use mirc and browse on the anoNet sites that end in .ano tld. There's web search engine, irc server, bittorrent tracker, private WoW server and probably other "real internet" stuff too.

Activities

Please note that any resource listed in this section can only be reached when your connection to the VPN is active. If it is not, you will get unexpected results.

Once you have connected to the VPN itself, you may do any number of things:
To get the full anoNet experience, use one of our cache DNS servers (1.0.9.53 or 1.10.11.1) so that you can resolve anoNet domains! Getting your own domain such as example.ano is no problem, just ask!
- Visit our Wiki, wiki.ano (http://1.0.9.3).
- Visit our IRC network using 1.0.9.1 or 1.0.1.1 port 6667 (6697 for SSL) with your favourite IRC client. Join #anonet and we can help you get started with anoNet.
- If you would like a more secure form of communication, you can use our SILC server at silc.ano:706
- Visit our message forum talk.ano (http://1.0.9.4), where you can discuss anything under the sun! Literally. That is what this network is about -- free speech.
- Use the anoNet jabber network (jabber.ano port 5222 or 5223 ssl for v1 clients), where you can chat with others using your favourite Jabber client! Jabber directory at users.jabber.ano
- Grab yourself a webmail account mail.ano (http://1.0.9.6) if you don't want to run your own mail server. anoNet has no spam.
- Search anoNet using our spidering search engine search.ano (http://1.0.9.8).
- Use our Bittorrent tracker anotorrent.ano (http://1.0.9.200)
- There is an open Icecast streaming server at stream.icecast.ano (1.0.9.16) port 8000, password anonet. It supports 20 streams and 200 listeners. The directory server is at icecast.ano (http://1.0.9.16)
- Once again to promote free speech we have a multi-user blog at anojournal.ano (http://1.0.9.13)
- If file sharing is your thing we have ed2k and dc++ servers.
- If gaming is for you, there is a bnetd server. (Starcraft, Starcraft: Brood Wars, Warcraft II, Warcraft III, Diablo, Diablo II)
- We also have World of Warcraft server setup (Running MaNGOS and a combination of SDB and Modb)
  Remember, you can be a server too! Do you want to play a multi-player game? Go ahead! Install a game server, advertise it around (if you like), and get people to play with you!
Not only can you be a game server, but you can offer files, stream media, host your own web page, or anything else you want!
There is far too much to the network to list here, if it sounds like something you would be interested in, then connect up.

(main site [anonet.org] seems to be down atm, but this one works [brinkster.net] )

An unfortunate thing about using anonimity (1)

davidwr (791652) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955132)

Unless you live in an environment where "everyone uses anonymity tools," using them singles you out as someone with something to hide.

If you aren't supporting a dissident movement in a dictatorship or some other noble cause, or doing only work-related computing over a VPM people will assume you are either trading warez or doing something that's in most people's List Of Evil Things, like terrorism, organized crime, or child pornography.

In some situations, the fact you use anonymity tools can turn suspicion of illegal activity into something strong enough to get a search warrant or a key-logger warrant, where, without this, the judge would tell the prosecutor the case wasn't strong enough.

Re:Sigh... (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954950)

You mean the way shutting down Napster reduced the amount of file sharing on the Internet? Wait, shutting down Npaster is what lead to P2P music filesharing. It might have happened anyway, but shutting down Napster accelerated it.

Re:Sigh... (1)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955062)

I dont think their purpose even is to completely win the battle, but to make it inconvenient enough for casual people to get stuff for free. It's the same thing with DRM - it doesn't keep the hardcore pirates off who are there to break it, but it surely keeps casual people from copying to friends and so on.

The fix is not to make it inconvenient to pirate stuff... I realize this is what they're trying to accomplish with DRM and whatnot. But that isn't the fix. The fix is to make people want to legitimately purchase your product.

You can do this by adding value to the paid product - with some kind of on-line subscription that gets you added goodies, for example. Something that can't simply be downloaded and installed. Something that can't be pirated.

You can do this by making the legitimate purchase even easier than piracy. Look at iTunes, or Steam - either of those is genuinely easier than tracking down a torrent of the thing.

The reason we have rampant piracy today is not because the DRM is somehow lacking, or because it is too easy to pirate something. The reason we have rampant piracy today is because folks don't feel that the price (in time, effort, money, etc.) is right.

Re:Sigh... (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954646)

The courts aren't trying to stamp this out, that's not their job. Their job is to administer justice according to the law. Arresting thief's, doesn't prevent all thefts. Catching tax cheats, doesn't prevent people from cheating on their taxes. So blame the record companies, or the legislators that passed the laws, but courts aren't really malfunctioning here.

And don' you dare invoke the imagery of Don Quixote. He was a crusader for truth, love and all good things in this life. Not to be used with the *IAA's money grab.

Re:Sigh... (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954984)

And don' you dare invoke the imagery of Don Quixote. He was a crusader for truth, love and all good things in this life. Not to be used with the *IAA's money grab.

Yes, but he also was not very well connected to reality, a trait he shares with the *AAs.

Re:Sigh... (4, Insightful)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954714)

To put it in a little more perspective, the industry, whoever is fighting digital distribution and any kind of piracy... make it easier and more appealing to purchase your product than pirate it. It really is that simple.

iTunes and the likes are a perfect example. I consider my time pretty valuable to me, so when a song pops in my head that I haven't heard in 10 years, and I want to listen to it, to me, it is more beneficial to me to just spend the .99 cents on a song than it is to waste a good hour hunting down a torrent or similar and wait for it to download, just to possibly find out it wasn't what I was looking for.

Steam is another great example. I'd rather pony up $5 to buy The Dig than to scour the internet for hours trying to find a pirated version, just to wait hours/DAYS! to get it, only to find out that it was a CLASS release (remember those folks!?) with no sound and video compressed so bad that you can't make out what you are seeing.

Re:Sigh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29955092)

If it takes you an hour to find a song and download it for free, you don't know how to search.

Re:Sigh... (4, Insightful)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955122)

To put it in a little more perspective, the industry, whoever is fighting digital distribution and any kind of piracy... make it easier and more appealing to purchase your product than pirate it. It really is that simple.

iTunes and the likes are a perfect example. I consider my time pretty valuable to me, so when a song pops in my head that I haven't heard in 10 years, and I want to listen to it, to me, it is more beneficial to me to just spend the .99 cents on a song than it is to waste a good hour hunting down a torrent or similar and wait for it to download, just to possibly find out it wasn't what I was looking for.

Steam is another great example. I'd rather pony up $5 to buy The Dig than to scour the internet for hours trying to find a pirated version, just to wait hours/DAYS! to get it, only to find out that it was a CLASS release (remember those folks!?) with no sound and video compressed so bad that you can't make out what you are seeing.

This, I think, is going to be key to stopping piracy as we know it today.

Digital distribution has the potential to lower costs by eliminating packaging. It can expand the marketplace by making truly ancient and fringe titles available. It can facilitate impulse buys and periodic sales. And it can give you the instant gratification of getting something without having to go out to the store or wait on shipping.

It is genuinely easier for me to buy a song on iTunes - even if I won't use iTunes or an iPod to play it back - than it is for me to track down a torrent.

It is genuinely easier for me to buy a game on Steam than it is for me to track down a torrent and wait for it to download.

Streisand Effect? (2, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954470)

Could this be the Streisand effect? Lots of new people suddenly learned about free movies when the news media talked about it for a few days.

Re:Streisand Effect? (1)

feedayeen (1322473) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954552)

Could this be the Streisand effect? Lots of new people suddenly learned about free movies when the news media talked about it for a few days.

The Streisand effect is primary for end users. If our grandparents had heard about the news story and then started downloading, then it would be the Streisand effect. The Pirate Bay had a monopoly over torrent sharing sites as it was one of the largest and the most widely known one on the Internet. With it gone, smaller sites can now start up without the competition of attracting existing P2P users.

Re:Streisand Effect? (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954562)

I don't think so. I think it's more an effect of people perceiving a shrinking supply of working and secure P2P solutions, so going on like great guns to where they know they can get their free stuff. It may actually be the great irony of anti-P2P initiatives that they do precisely the worst thing from the persepective of the battle, creating an artificial economic scarcity which drives up demand.

You just gotta watch these guys in their war on the pirates. It's becoming clearer and clearer that it's their own house they're setting on fire. Even when one of them comes up a good idea like Hulu, they sabotage it by allowing it only in one jurisdiction, fueling demand but refusing to cater to it. The media companies are like giants straddling a line between pre-file sharing and post-file sharing. They understand that they need to adapt to survive, but they seem incapable of taking the necessary big step out of Ye Olden Days, and fully modernize.

Re:Streisand Effect? (1)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954600)

Do you know how much ad revenue is made from these websites?

Re:Streisand Effect? (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954656)

Actually when the working and secure P2P solutions shrink, most people will just stop using them. When it becomes so that only possibility is to use something like darknets for P2P, only the hardcore pirates will be there and normal/casual people just wont bother.

Re:Streisand Effect? (3, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954716)

That's a delightful theory, rather like "If we make hiring prostitutes/taking drugs/whatever sufficiently onerous and legally dangerous, people will stop doing it."

By turning filesharing into a vice, the media companies, politicians and courts are in fact only increasing the attraction. There's a peculiar psychology to it. People like guilty pleasures.

Re:Streisand Effect? (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954854)

That's a delightful theory, rather like "If we make hiring prostitutes/taking drugs/whatever sufficiently onerous and legally dangerous, people will stop doing it."

Are you saying making those illegal and having consequences when caught have absolutely no effect on if people will do them? Of course it doesn't limit those who really want to, but it limits those people actions who dont care as much and can be without too.

I don't think so (1)

AlgorithMan (937244) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954918)

I think growing need for anonymous P2P systems will lead to development of easier solutions. And if one day there are enough users to get bearable transfer-rates, then the media industry is done for...

Re:Streisand Effect? (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954624)

Or is it basic economics? Large, powerful, good site goes down leaving a vacuum for new sites to pop up. The demand hasn't slowed any and so its natural for lots of smaller sites to pop up until they become as good as TPB then we start over again.

it's almost like... (5, Insightful)

u4ya (1248548) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954482)

a handful of selfish greedy people are no match for millions of selfish, greedy people

Re:it's almost like... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954594)

HAHAHA this is possibly the best comment ever.

Bravo, sir (2, Insightful)

Neuroelectronic (643221) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954924)

While greed is a great motivator, I still like to think there's a little bit of Gutenberg in us. Distributing copyrighted works is not purely a selfish act.

Re:Bravo, sir (1)

abigor (540274) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955006)

It is from the perspective of the people who create such works in order to get paid. But hey, who cares about them.

Re:Bravo, sir (3, Interesting)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955120)

It is from the perspective of the people who create such works in order to get paid. But hey, who cares about them.

No it's not. What you mean is the perspective of the people who distribute such works in order to get paid. It is a key difference that will lead creators to ways of making money that don't rely on charging a fee for distribution.

Re:it's almost like... (1)

CyprusBlue113 (1294000) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954938)

Thank you so much, this is now my email signature.

Re:it's almost like... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954960)

"I really want the product this group of people makes! But I don't agree with how they want it distributed and I find them rude. Therefore, I'm justified in both defying them and not paying for it! See? That's civility!"

Mr. (or Mrs.) u4ya, you're one of the few who see it for what it is.

Re:it's almost like... (4, Insightful)

schon (31600) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954978)

a handful of selfish greedy people are no match for millions of selfish, greedy people

I find it particularly ironic that people who are sharing cultural works with others for free are being called "greedy" and "selfish".

Re:it's almost like... (1, Troll)

characterZer0 (138196) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955068)

What makes a work "cultural", and why does that mean that you do not need the author's permission to copy it?

Re:it's almost like... (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954998)

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Well, it's no secret... (5, Informative)

beatsme (1472991) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954496)

The article makes it seem like a covert/mystical action, but really, anyone who has been reading TorrentFreak in the days since the TPB offer of sale and events surrounding the trial will know that people have been thinking about ways to mirror TPB for a while now, under the assumption that it will sink: http://torrentfreak.com/its-time-to-sink-the-pirate-bay-and-replace-it-090913/ [torrentfreak.com] , http://torrentfreak.com/torrented-pirate-bay-copy-comes-to-life-090820/ [torrentfreak.com] , etc...

Buzzwords, because thinking is hard (5, Funny)

Virak (897071) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954510)

This is cloud computing like buying another pair of pants is cloud clothing.

Re:Buzzwords, because thinking is hard (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954580)

I tried to refocus and consolidate my thinking to be more in line with your criticism but was unable to complete the paradigm shift. Perhaps you could resize your critique's footprint to fit my home office's plans.

Re:Buzzwords, because thinking is hard (2, Funny)

natehoy (1608657) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954806)

No, you're thinking inside the box. This isn't rocket science. Take a look at a 50,000 foot view to rightsize your comprehension. This is synergy between alternative downstream partners because the alpha dog just got eaten by the wolves.

At the end of the day, what we have here is a classic case of vertical integration. Due to a disconnect between law and TPB's established best practices, a way needed to be found to realign the conflicting priorities. In an attempt to realign the siloed legal conflict, TPB is ghostsourced and found involuntary closure as their exit strategy. Their former customers see a need and fill a need by taking it to the next level of self-enabling their own Torrent service, thereby eating their own dog food, while leveraging a market gap and filling it with customer-centric organic growth. Each new value-added Torrent site utilizes the existing low-hanging fruit of recycled TPB torrents, gains a lot of eyeballs in their attempt to win mindshare from a market that's really co-opetition. If they touch base and act open kimono with each other, it's a new new economy win-win scenario.

Re:Buzzwords, because thinking is hard (1)

Virak (897071) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954966)

Which chapter of the Necronomicon is that from? It doesn't seem to be in mine. Do you have a newer version than I do?

Re:Buzzwords, because thinking is hard (1)

garynuman (1666499) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954662)

This is cloud computing like buying another pair of pants is cloud clothing.

i don't get it, could you please explain yourself to me relating your comments to repairing an automobile? thanks....

Re:Buzzwords, because thinking is hard (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954744)

This is cloud computing like jumping on top of other car with yours is cloud driving.

Re:Buzzwords, because thinking is hard (4, Funny)

megamerican (1073936) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954808)

"No officer, I'm not naked. I'm a trend setter in cloud clothing. That man over there is wearing pants for me. Honest."

In other news (5, Insightful)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954520)

I have feverishly been engaged in whacking moles, and cannot for the life of me comprehend why they continue to pop up.

Re:In other news (2, Funny)

rant64 (1148751) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954640)

He's trying to ask if you have any aspirin.

Pirate Bay is closed? (4, Informative)

WormholeFiend (674934) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954558)

Certainly does not look dead yet.

Re:Pirate Bay is closed? (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954694)

If you read more than the title you'd know this is about after the time TPB was in court in June, and after all the shit that has been going around it (GGF sale, countless downtimes, court problems in several countries)

But funnily TPB doesn't respond now (again, like countless times recently)

Re:Pirate Bay is closed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954976)

Was alive and kicking (as in, "new torrents being posted continually") less than 24 hours ago at 194.71.107.15. In a day or two, once they get on another host and the DNS info propagates, it'll be at some other IP address.

Re:Pirate Bay is closed? (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955082)

It's been on that IP for a while now because they own the IP block. I explained here [slashdot.org] before how they handle the backbone for the site and try to make it more redundant (which doesn't seem to help much lately)

Solving the wrong problem? (2, Interesting)

DeadDecoy (877617) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954560)

It seems to be that media outlets are solving the wrong problem. If pirated movies, software, etc pop up everywhere then that indicates a high demand for a particular service or product. Especially when their illegitimate services are probably being operated at bare minimum cost to provide terabytes of content and bandwidth. They should probably try offering a pay service (either subscription or per-view) to access content online even when it comes out. Naturally there will be people who don't want to pay anything, but there might be a marginal market for this kind of thing. Either way, the research would be interesting. And, if pay+hd content or commercial+normal quality can't compete with free+crappy telesync, then maybe the media industry isn't losing enough money to whine about?

Re:Solving the wrong problem? (1)

E33K TH3 B34R (1652405) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954718)

It seems to be that media outlets are solving the wrong problem. If pirated movies, software, etc pop up everywhere then that indicates a high demand for a particular service or product. Especially when their illegitimate services are probably being operated at bare minimum cost to provide terabytes of content and bandwidth. They should probably try offering a pay service (either subscription or per-view) to access content online even when it comes out. Naturally there will be people who don't want to pay anything, but there might be a marginal market for this kind of thing. Either way, the research would be interesting. And, if pay+hd content or commercial+normal quality can't compete with free+crappy telesync, then maybe the media industry isn't losing enough money to whine about?

Good in theory but didnt work with Napster, - Kazza (Or Morphious) Just came along ... Then Torrents and News groups . . .

Re:Solving the wrong problem? (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955016)

It didn't work with Napster because the RIAA shut down Napster and then allowed it to be resurrected as a pay site after it became obvious that P2P was replacing it. By then it was too late, if they had cut a deal with Napster in the first place, it might have been different.

Re:Solving the wrong problem? (1)

DeadDecoy (877617) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955108)

But itunes, amazon books, and steam games seem to be functioning pretty well. Granted they use drm, but their success shows that users are willing to accept and pay for it if a greater service is provided. The above examples demonstrate that digital media services can work as long as their implementation details are hashed out.

Re:Solving the wrong problem? (1)

jshackney (99735) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954856)

They should probably try offering a pay service (either subscription or per-view) to access content online even when it comes out.

Exactly. You and I know this is probably a brilliant idea. Convincing media executives is another thing entirely. I would gladly pay for much of the programming I formerly enjoyed before I dropped my cable. I just couldn't justify the ridiculous monthly costs for 120 channels when I never watched 95.8% of them. I get the vast majority of my programming from the network sites now, or someplace like Hulu.

When it comes to movies, they're so horrifically bad that I can't bring myself to part with cash only to walk out before the film is half over. What's worse, there are few movies even worth considering going to watch in the theater. But that's another commentary. Just let us grab the movies/programming a-la-carte sans the middle-man.

Re:Solving the wrong problem? (1)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954904)

accept this would involve innovation... and that's soooo hard! (in Barbie's 'Math is Hard' voice)

The one of the thing any entrenched industry does when they are threatened by new technology (or anything else for that matter) is go to the government for help (i.e. get the competitor regulated out of existance). That's where we're at right now.

Ooh, that reminds me... (1)

URL Scruggs (1230074) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954566)

...I need to download Curb Your Enthusiasm. And why do Channel 4 force me to watch the Daily Show 3 days after the news happens? Grrr.

Re:Ooh, that reminds me... (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954746)

And why do Channel 4 force me to watch the Daily Show 3 days after the news happens?

How are they forcing you to watch it? Are they tying you in front of the telivision with your mouth gagged and your eyelids propped open with matchsticks?

Are they pointing a gun at your head?

Holding your girlfriend^H^H^H^H^HRealDoll hostage?

Holding your Xbox|Wii|PS3 hostage?

How exactly are they forcing you? ;)

Re:Ooh, that reminds me... (1)

URL Scruggs (1230074) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954910)

Hmm, why didn't I assume I'd have to defend myself from Mr/Ms Literal... Let me explain: They are forcing me to not watch it earlier, by disallowing UK access to the videos on Comedy Central's site. So I have to watch it according to their schedules if I want to watch it at all. It also means UK viewers don't have access to the archive that goes back 10 years, or any of the extended interviews. Clear enough?

Yep (5, Insightful)

petrus4 (213815) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954574)

Keep trying, suits.

For every Web site you shut down; for every IRC server you pay to have DDoSed; for every eMule node you raid; five more will spring up in their place.

You can pollute the edonkey net with malware; we'll move to IRC. You can kill public websites; we'll make private, invite-only underground darknets, that you can't see, find, or regulate.

The society that you are trying to prevent the formation of is, in good part, already here. We will continue working to establish it, for the ultimate benefit and enrichment of all; ironically even you yourselves in the end.

The end of scarcity is inevitable. You can attempt to stand in the way, you can slow it down, marginally...but you will not stop it.

Re:Yep (2, Insightful)

nomadic (141991) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954630)

The end of scarcity is inevitable. You can attempt to stand in the way, you can slow it down, marginally...but you will not stop it.

When making money from movies becomes difficult if not impossible, they'll just stop making them. That's what will stop it.

Re:Yep (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954760)

And nothing of value was lost, etc.

Re:Yep (1)

Splab (574204) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954828)

Not true. Hollywood studies have through time never made a dime( see hollywood accounting ), so obviously money doesn't drive them...

Riiiiiight..... (1)

tacokill (531275) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954852)

When making money from movies becomes difficult if not impossible, they'll just stop making them.

Right! And the timeframe for that happening is: never

Movies will always be made. If you can round up 50 ppl in your neighborhood to view your crappy version of Blair Witch Project III, then there is a good chance you can do that and make a profit. The cost of producing video now is almost nil. Putting it together into something compelling is an entirely different story, though.

Either way, we'll still have movies. Only the quality will differ.

Re:Yep (1)

badboy_tw2002 (524611) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954900)

Right, because people have stopped going to the movies. That's why, after all this stealing, box office records (even after inflation) continue to rise. I'm sure they'll just close up shop and move on because the nerds will have won.

Re:Yep (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954922)

Good. Maybe then the American electorate will get off of our asses and do something worthwhile with our citizenship.

Re:Yep (5, Insightful)

vlm (69642) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955078)

When making money from movies becomes difficult if not impossible, they'll just stop making them. That's what will stop it.

Movies exist because movie theaters exist.

Movie theaters exist because teenagers need a place to make out, place phone calls, text each other, whisper, eat, drink, and gossip. Sort of like an adult-free daycare for teenagers.

That explains a lot about the quality of modern movies, they are little more than silver-"screensavers" going on while the real activity is in the seats.

As long as the social concept of teenagers exist, it will be possible to make money from movies. The quality of the product and the money spent on them will drop until a profit is made. The bar is already low, and will soon be lower. So, no problem!

Re:Yep (5, Interesting)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954676)

The idea that the media industry should be different than any other historical industry is quite beyond me. The printing press pretty much killed one of the most ancient occupations of literate civilization; the professional scribe. I'm sure lots of scribes were pretty pissed that some asshole German and his machine not only stabbed their profession in the heart, but did it with what was really a substandard result (look at illuminated manuscripts and then look at the Gutenberg Bible, it's the 128bit MP3 of its day!)

No occupation or technology is guaranteed infinite supremacy. No law can do it, not without extraordinary harm. Late feudal Japan tried banning firearms and other forms of modern warfare to stave off the collapse of the feudal system, and then by the Meiji period was bringing in every foreign expert they could to bring them up to speed before they became a two-bit colonial rape victim like China.

What I'm afraid of is that the anti-P2P movement will become like the War on Drugs, an unwinnable contest, but one with sufficient amounts of money being made by the so-called enforcers that they'll just keep trying to stop what they know they never can, under the strange idea that if you can criminalize enough people, somehow they'll eventually stop.

I think every country should adopt a new clause in their constitution; the "Stupid Ideas Tried Before Clause" that would have anyone who passes a law to try a scheme proven one or more times to be unenforceable to be removed from office permanently.

Re:Yep (3, Insightful)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954934)

I think every country should adopt a new clause in their constitution; the "Stupid Ideas Tried Before Clause" that would have anyone who passes a law to try a scheme proven one or more times to be unenforceable to be removed from office permanently.

But then there wouldn't be anyone left in office at that point...

(Oh, did I say that with my outside voice??)

Seriously, most people don't learn from the past and are doomed to repeat it over and over again.

Deja vu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954578)

Didn't the same thing happen when napster was closed down? Everyone was using napster and when it shut down multiple sites filled in the gaps. Close down one of those sites, and more get created.

Similar to the mythical hydra. Chop off a head, and more are replaced.

Re:Deja vu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954814)

The hydra may indeed be a good logo for a piracy movement!

War on Drugs (5, Insightful)

Reason58 (775044) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954598)

This is similarly ineffective as going after drug dealers. This addresses the symptoms, but not the underlying causes.

Re:War on Drugs (4, Funny)

megamerican (1073936) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954684)

I didn't know the CIA was behind bittorrent.

Re:War on Drugs (2, Insightful)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954778)

And ... war on poverty, terrorism, illiteracy, FOXNews, Hate speech ... actually any war on ______ that isn't actually a shooting war against a defined group of people.

You cannot kill off this kind of Piracy, because it is an concept, not an actual group of people.

Re:War on Drugs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29955140)

Has anyone ever really killed off a group of people? The United States' decimation of the Native American population is probably the closest anyone has ever come. It's not easy to systematically kill millions of people. Hitler failed.

Wars on _____ don't work because you can't put out a large fire with a boot. In the past, wars ended because they were about acquiring resources - not eliminating ideas and people.

Re:War on Drugs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954878)

Can't compare the drugs to piracy.

Worst case scenario if piracy continues unchecked is that content starts degrading in quality as producers start feeling the financial pinch.

Worst case scenario if hard drug use continues to grow unchecked is a decline in civilized society....hard drug use must be limited if society is to prosper. I firmly believe that all efforts to minimize addictive drug use are worthy.

Re:War on Drugs (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954968)

...hard drug use must be limited if society is to prosper

why ? please give me some evidence

heroin user used to get old in Britain when it was legal, most of them were quite productive, so heroin is not a socital
If hard drug are that bad why does the F22 pilots can take methamphetamine (go pills, crystal meth) before there flight

Re:War on Drugs (5, Funny)

BenBoy (615230) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954992)

Kinda like having a war on dandelions by goin' out and kicking them every spring. "Hey, what are those floaty things?"

Re:War on Drugs (3, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955032)

Drug dealers would be on the level of seeders. This is like going after the top drug kingpins and wondering why it doesn't crumble like a house of cards. Except the kingpins aren't actually kingpins and the torrents are as easy to come by as getting a business card off a salesman. They're King Canute [viking.no] commanding the tide not to roll in. Let's hope they don't learn any lessons from the Dutch.

Re:War on Drugs (1)

sponga (739683) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955076)

"Hi my names Frank and I am addicted to Britney Spears songs and having unlimited downloads"
Crowd : "HI FRANK!!"

*guy in the corner rocking back and forth nervously*
Frank : "whose that guy?"
Crowd : "oh that's Jim, ever since they closed down PirateBay he has never been the same"
Frank : "my god, what have they done!!"

*guy in the corner signals for Frank to come to him*
Frank : "hey whats up my names Frank"
Shady guy: "shhh they're listening!!!!"
Frank : "huh... Who?"
Shady guy : " The R....I...i..i... i....A...."
Jim : "AHHHH AHHHH AHHHH!!! DONT SAY IT!! NOOOOO"

Nurse : "DOCTOR!!! I need 2 minutes of USENET for him!!!"
Doctor: " For gods sake woman get out of the way!!! This man needs unfiltered internet access!!!"

60 Minutes (4, Interesting)

BlueBoxSW.com (745855) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954664)

Anyone see the 60 Minutes piece last night trying to link Bit Torrent to Mexican DVD piracy to gangs to child prostitution? (think of the CHILDREN!)

It was quite ill informed, seeming to only gather information from the MPAA and other similar sources.

The link between people using camcorders to record movies and make bad quality DVD's for sale on street-corners I get, but their assumption that these are the SAME people uploading to BT, was casual at best.

Seriously, if you go through all the trouble to cam-cord the movie and burn DVD's in mass, aren't you just as threatened by BT as the studios?

Perhaps use it as a source, yes, but upload your own movies for free? I don't see it.

Re:60 Minutes (4, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954848)

The real bias problem in Television news isn't a liberal or conservative bias (with the exception of Fox news) but has to do with pro-corporate thinking. There are very few times that a news organization even acknowledges there is a second side to the debate when it comes to so-called "piracy" or copyright issues. I think these major reporters are so immersed in the corporate system that they are blind to the fact they even have this bias... it's the way they live, it is how they are getting paid and I believe they think there is no other way to look at many of these issues. I think that's one reason reporting this shoddy gets on the air... in the corporateThink world a connection between a kewl dood putting up a torrent of a porn dvd he ripped to mp4 and a white slave trader doesn't seem that outrageous.

Re:60 Minutes (2, Insightful)

natehoy (1608657) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954906)

Similar to the ads about "if you do drugs, you're supporting terrorism"?

Odd, that, since the only money going to terrorist nations is their share of any fuel you might have burned while driving to the street corner. So, ride your bicycle to get your fix and the link is broken.

"Terrorism" is the new obedience card.

Oh, yeah, that reminds me. I'm low on sheet plastic and duct tape. Gotta go...

ROFL-cakes! (3, Interesting)

cpattersonv1 (1664205) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954752)

Something like ordering the shutdown of Pirate Bay makes it look to the non-tech world like “something is being done to stop those evil hackers.” When in actuality, most of the stuff you find on Pirate Bay is widely available at just about any company that has a resident Nitendo DS playing, I-Pod listening, Warez junkie working there. Most of the companies I've worked at already had at least two “darknets” up and running at all times, and that was before I worked there. (I don't condone that sort of activity, but resistance is futile.) I know of 10-year-olds that spend more time on torrents than they do texting... and that's hard to believe. They would have to kill the whole internet to make it stop, then it would start on cell phones.

so, regulation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#29954762)

So what you're saying is that international regulation of the Internet and restriction of encryption (license to operate) are the solutions? With deep packet inspection and criminal charges for offenders?

Differing realities (5, Insightful)

alvinrod (889928) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954772)

I think the media companies thought that when they brought the Pirate Bay to trial and won a conviction that it would scare everyone away from file sharing (legal or otherwise) and that people would go back to buying DVDs, etc. What really happened is that they generated a lot of news which basically informed countless masses unaware that torrent was even a word that they could use these things to get free movies, music, etc. off of the internet.

It's almost a little bit like the Streisand Effect [wikipedia.org] in that they're really only making the problem worse. If they really wanted to do something about piracy, stop talking about P2P and go after the people who are burning physical copies that they're selling. These people are actually distributing thousands of full copies of product for which they have no license to reproduce. That's a battle that the record companies, movie studios, et al. might actually be able to win.

Re:Differing realities (3, Insightful)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954962)

But they're not doing it because of "piracy" as if they were after that, it's easy enough to bust the people doing it because they're not cautious in most cases.

They're after absolute control and trying for the ability to charge rent on our culture.

get off my lawn (1)

garynuman (1666499) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954782)

i bet our grandchildren will be astounded the Ministry of Truth let shenanigans like this occur, at least Pornosec will still be hard at work...

The tag "haha" would be applicable here... (1)

HerculesMO (693085) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954812)

I am going to use "itoldyouso" as well.

Stomping out fires (2, Interesting)

Jason Levine (196982) | more than 3 years ago | (#29954958)

I get this mental image of a decent sized pile of sticks on fire. The RIAA tries to put out the fire by stomping on it, jumping up and down on it and kicking it. They successfully put out the main fire, but in the process sticks get scattered all about and ignite other brush. So the RIAA repeats their "put out the fire" procedure on those, continually winding up with burnt feet and more fires than they started out with.

(This isn't to say that I agree with the copyright infringement websites either. However, the RIAA's approach to defending copyright leaves little room for sympathy and turns many who would support sensible copyrights into pirates.)

The problem are Theaters (2, Interesting)

scorp1us (235526) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955050)

No one wants to go to the theater anymore.

I once had to sit next to a fat, nicotine-smelling mouth breather. He was so fat, his breaking actually made noise. I was no more impressed when I saw him im the lobby after the movie. His sweatshirt said "My Dick Tastes Like Chapstick"

Couple that with talkers, out-of-focus, low-frame rate, cold theaters, you don't have the best venue for people to go see, Yeah, ita a big screen, but we have HD TVs with surround sound, and people you can beat or fart on if they get out of line. Not to mention you can actually pause the damn thing.

If the Movie industry just gave up on theaters and went straight to PPV, thereby increasing access, they'd find they have a much bigger audience. But for some insane reason they insist on making us trot out to these smelly, dark, hell holes.

duh... (4, Insightful)

amoeba1911 (978485) | more than 3 years ago | (#29955104)

PirateBay isn't a web site, it's a culture. You can't stop culture with laws.
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