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Mandriva Linux 2010 Is Finally Out

samzenpus posted more than 4 years ago | from the get-it-while-it's-hot dept.

Mandriva 267

ennael writes "We finally did it. Mandriva Linux 2010 is out and comes with many improvements and innovations. We still go on supporting in the same level of integration GNOME 2.28 and KDE 4.3.2. Support for netbooks is improved as users can now easily test Moblin 2.0 environment. 'Smart desktop' coming from European research is now fully integrated and is the first real working semantic desktop. Mandriva Control Center also brings improvements in tools: a new netprofile management tool, a GUI for Tomoyo security framework, and parental control. A big thanks to our community, who worked hard and made this release possible."

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Big fucking deal (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991494)

Mandriva sucks donkey nuts.

Debian ftw!

How does it compare to Ubuntu? (-1, Troll)

gapagos (1264716) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991546)

...considering Mandrivia costs 60 euros and has a MUCH smaller userbase than Ubuntu, which is free and is the de facto desktop distro winner. Shouldn't a linux newcomer just adopt the most supported distro aka Ubuntu?

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (4, Interesting)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991594)

I use Debian myself, but started out with Mandrake (which became Mandriva). It's a very nice distro actually, more polished than Ubuntu. Also I believe it comes with codecs and other non-free stuff as well as pretty good support so the buyer does get value for their money. For someone just switching from Windows who wants a higher degree of "fit and finish" it's a solid choice. It's not for those whose primary concern is an idealistic and uncompromising free OS though.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (5, Informative)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992712)

It's not for those whose primary concern is an idealistic and uncompromising free OS though

Why not? They release a "Mandriva Free" ISO with every release, which contains only F/OSS software. You can install the proprietary stuff yourself if you want to, but the install media is about as "idealistic and uncompromising[ly] free" as any Debian GNU/Linux user could want.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (5, Informative)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991610)

...considering Mandrivia costs 60 euros...

Actually they have a gratis version (One) and a commercial version (Powerpack); they're almost the same, but Powerpack includes some non-free software.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (4, Informative)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991638)

Oops, I forgot to mention: they also have a version named "Free", that includes absolutely no proprietary apps or drivers.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (1)

Air-conditioned cowh (552882) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992682)

Oops, I forgot to mention: they also have a version named "Free", that includes absolutely no proprietary apps or drivers.

Don't forget, adding non-free codecs and apps is as simple as adding the PLF repository from http://easyurpmi.zarb.org./ [easyurpmi.zarb.org]

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991656)

Mandriva doesn't cost 60 Euro, so please stop the FUD. You can get Mandriva running perfectly fine by using "Mandriva Free 2010", and they have community repos for mp3 etc just like Debian has "debian-multimedia" and Opensuse has packman.

"Ubuntu is an modern day white trash word that means 'I can't fucking read'".

\suseuser

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (2, Funny)

xtracto (837672) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992930)

"Ubuntu is an modern day white trash word that means 'I can't fucking read'".

That's not what I've heard.
p.s. No, I didn't change my sig to fit the comment.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991666)

Or take your argument to its logical conclusion and just run Windows - the real de facto desktop winner?

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (3, Interesting)

onefriedrice (1171917) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991698)

...considering Mandrivia costs 60 euros and has a MUCH smaller userbase than Ubuntu, which is free and is the de facto desktop distro winner. Shouldn't a linux newcomer just adopt the most supported distro aka Ubuntu?

Mandriva is free, too. Otherwise, you may be right. Ubuntu may be a better distro for a "Linux newcomer". On the other hand, getting support for other distros is not wildly different or inherently worse than getting support for Ubuntu. I hope you realize that Ubuntu might not be everybody's cup of tea, and not everybody is new to Linux. While Ubuntu may be the most popular choice for Linux on the desktop, it is by no means the only practical or best choice for everyone.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (2, Interesting)

imakemusic (1164993) | more than 4 years ago | (#29993082)

How should one go about finding the best choice of distro for their needs without trying them all out? This is a serious question...

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (1)

lezard (866687) | more than 4 years ago | (#29993246)

Forums, I guess. For example, if you like KDE, I could recommend Mandriva, OpenSUSE, or Arch. If you're not a Linux expert or you don't like to search within a wiki, I would not recommend Arch. If you don't like Mono or Microsoft, I would not recommend OpenSUSE. So, that leads you to Mandriva, which is a very good choice :)

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (4, Informative)

the_womble (580291) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991700)

Mandriva has a free as in beer one CD (like Ubuntu) version: you pay for the version that comes as a multi CD set (so you can install more on installation without downloading) and support.

In any case, the cost of an OS is trivial compared to its importance to most users: if 60 Euros gives you something better, spend it.

If you think you should adopt the most widely used desktop, you should logically use Windows.

Mandriva is a very good distro, and much more newbie friendly. It has better hardware detection, and is very easy to use. The only real shortcoming is that the software installer is not quite as good as Synaptic.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991760)

"Linux newcomer"!! ... that would be Ubuntu when compared to Mandriva(drake). This distro has had a very useful control panel for admin tasks a long time + a solid KDE environment. Gnome is just not to my liking, I tried K/Ubuntu several times... eventually ended back at Mandriva. Hope this release is as good as 2009.1.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (5, Informative)

MacroRodent (1478749) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991800)

Mandriva is very easy to use, but also has all the power user features you can wish for easily available: by default there is a root account you can login to directly, unlike in Ubuntu. Installer supports more file system choices than most other distros (been running XFS at home for a long time).

Hardware support is good. My gut feeling has been it is better than in Ubuntu, but this is just personal experiences with some boxes that ran Mandriva but not Ubuntu, several years ago, and may not apply to latest versions of both.

Software versions in Mandriva are usually very fresh. It also seems to have better good 32 and 64 bit interoperability than most. I have been running the 64-bit version, yet I have not seen the 32-bit Flash troubles that users of other distros report. Just install the plugins and tell nspluginwrapper to update its information. I guess the fact that the author of nspluginwrapper used to work for Mandriva shows!

One good thing in favor of Mandriva is the PLF ("Penguin Liberation Front") repository that you can use to easily add software that the patent-encumbered in some parts of the world.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (2, Informative)

darthflo (1095225) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992784)

Ubuntu does XFS, (as well as ext*, JFS, MurderFS and so on) through the standard installer. mdraid, lvm and truecrypt only work through the alternate installer disc (but the curses interface ain't that much more difficult than the GUI, so it oughtn't be an issue.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (1)

John Betonschaar (178617) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992922)

Mandriva is very easy to use, but also has all the power user features you can wish for easily available: by default there is a root account you can login to directly, unlike in Ubuntu. Installer supports more file system choices than most other distros (been running XFS at home for a long time).

I'd argue that linux newbies should better not have a root account they can log in to directly, and power users that _do_ need that so badly can probably figure out themselves that they only have to do 'sudo passwd root' once to enable root-logins in Ubuntu. Also I don't get your point about filesystems, last time I installed Ubuntu from scratch (8.04) I was able to pick tons of filesystems in the installer.

But don't get me wrong, you have a good point if you just meant to indicate that there's most likely a non-trivial demographic that would like Mandrive more than Ubuntu, just like with most other distro's (some people still love Slackware or Gentoo).

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992984)

I use Mandrake since 2001 at least and the only problems I had was with hardware that was not supported at all on any Linux. Apart from that, each time I installed it, it always worked without significant problem. My wife uses it and my mother (82) has a Mandriva machine as a back-up. When her Windows box will be out of order, I will make her switch to Mandriva, because I am 100% sure that she will not need to reboot it for months, there will be no virus problems and the like.
The only thing I hope is that Mandriva will stay simple to use, very stable, without useless gadgets and sophistications: I am ready to pay for that, and I am quite sure that many "old" users would be ready to invest on a Linux distribution that will garanty them the same features, ergonomy, interface and data formats for the next twenty or thirty years.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (3, Interesting)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991816)

Umm... Mandriva is free. You *can* buy it boxed and get some support,etc., but for the average home user it doesn't cost a penny more than Ubuntu, Fedora, openSuse, or FreeDOS.

It's also still a fairly dominant distro, and in my opinion is a better place to start if you don't want your OS to treat you like a total moron (every time I try and use Ubuntu, it just feels like it's insulting my intelligence). Mind you, for some people that's probably the appropriate design for an OS, but I'm personally quite happy with Mandriva (one of my computers is running 2009 Spring, I may try upgrading it).

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (4, Interesting)

plasticsquirrel (637166) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991846)

For those of you who jumped onto the Linux boat in the Ubuntu era, Mandriva / Mandrake is mostly a hold-over from the days when Red Hat Linux was the biggest Linux distribution around. Red Hat was still a little difficult for some users, so Mandrake was based off Red Hat with more of a focus on polish and ease of use for desktop systems... Maybe similar to the relationship between Ubuntu and Debian. Like Ubuntu, Mandrake was very important, and if someone needed an easy Linux distro, Mandrake Linux was almost the standard.

I still remember ordering Mandrake and Slackware CD's through the mail because they were too big to download on a 56k connection. For a few dollars any number of companies would burn disks as send them through the mail. It wasn't standard for everyone to have broadband, or to be able to do updates through the Internet. In retrospect, Linux was certainly clumsier, rougher, and less stable on the desktop. A quick spin with Mandrake Linux 7 can show you how radically the Linux desktop experience has changed in the last nine years.

This clumsy user experience was also responsible for turning many Linux geeks away from the "bloated" desktop environments and more toward bare metal distributions such as Slackware and Debian, along with minimalist window managers, xterms, and other such tools. In my case, after struggling with Red Hat and Mandrake, I found the simplicity of Slackware to actually be easier, and lived over in that world for the next 7-8 years until Ubuntu really started to shine. I am sure there are many other Slashdotters who have had similar experiences in their years with Linux.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (1)

delta98 (619010) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992226)

I agree with most of what you are typing however it should be noted that a lot of the "Bloat" was by choice of the user and for5 the most part accidently. It's been awhile but from what I remember there was quite an extensive menu to choose from and the casual/new user was often likely to choose much more than they needed. Nice if you know what you want but to a n00b it could be quite an issue.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (2, Interesting)

GeorgeS (11440) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992390)

This sounds very much like my own experiences with Linux.I had a friend/co-worker help me setup a Debian system many years ago but, I never quite "got" Debian and it was very frustrating for me. I continued to run the Debian system for several years and I even tried out Corel Linux with similar results but, after reading about Mandrake(the name back then) I figured it couldn't be any worse so I gave that a try and WOW...all my hardware magically started working and it wasn't too hard for me to setup the system and use it.
Now several years later I use Debian on my servers and I'm learning to use the KDE that comes with Debian but, I mostly just the shell/Xterm/CLI on those systems.
This is great timing too because my wife just mentioned earlier tonight that she'd like to try out a Linux system on an old laptop we have here and I have a pretty good idea which Distro we are going to try first :)

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992506)

Well, It's wrong to say these tools are only for Debian or Slackware, I'm running awesome 3.4 on my mandriva and I mostly use terminal/curses based programs in rxvt-unicode. You may be interested to know that wmii, dwm, xmonad, lxde, fluxbox, openbox and many more minimalist window managers are also available for Mandriva. Though of course most of mandriva users either use KDE/GNOME/XFCE.

You may also be interested to know that the mini image, that contains a minimal 32 and 64 bits installer comes with LXDE and replaces the good old IceWM.

A friend of mine is a slacker too and he was surprised that I "still" use Mandriva and did not switch to slack, deb or arch, and distro often cares some kind of reputation, but I can assure you it's in most case more versatile than it appears to be, and after all, it ships with gcc :)

Cheers,

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992940)

For me it was Slackware, Red Hat, Fedora, Ubuntu.

Fedora was actually quite similar to Ubuntu by the time I switched. The Debian like packaging system kinda grew on me and the GNOME desktop from Ubuntu was better than the one from Fedora at that time.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992952)

PS: Oh, yeah, I actually used Debian for a time before switching to Fedora. Releases took forever and the applications grew stale quickly, so I gave up using Debian since. Their GNOME desktop sucked. At the time my network connection was horrible, so constantly having to update packages from debian unstable wasn't for me.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992954)

Mandriva / Mandrake is mostly a hold-over from the days when Red Hat Linux was the biggest Linux distribution around

Ahh old times, anyone remember the parodies:
Mandrake Linux [teletubbies picture]
Lesbian Linux [Debian-like picture]
Dead Rat Linux [Redhat-like]

Others I am missing?
I could not find them on teh google :(

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (4, Informative)

molnarcs (675885) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992088)

...considering Mandrivia costs 60 euros and has a MUCH smaller userbase than Ubuntu, which is free and is the de facto desktop distro winner. Shouldn't a linux newcomer just adopt the most supported distro aka Ubuntu?

Well, if said newcomer desires KDE, the answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT. Kubuntu, for the past 4 releases (basically, since Feisty) have been alpha quality. They ship with broken packages, zero customization, and bugs that would be considered by any other responsible vendor as showstopper (for instance, wireless that broke most people's Internet connection after updating to Jaunty). Besides, as other pointed out, Mandiva has free editions.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (3, Interesting)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992738)

Out of curiosity, does kdesu (the graphical privilege-elevation dialog) work yet? The last Kubuntu build I tried had kdesu set up to use `su` not `sudo` (it's a configuration option). Since [K]Ubuntu's root account is disabled by default, it doesn't matter what password you enter - su won't work.

This was a blatantly obvious showstopper bug that requires literally a minute or two to fix. The fact that it shipped in a release version of Kubuntu was where I lost all faith in the distribution's QA efforts.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992166)

unless it's got great support, i can't imagine paying for a linux distro either.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29993150)

unless it's got great support, i can't imagine paying for a linux distro either.

Why I pay for this great distro is simple. I want to support them and do my little part to keep it going. I have nothing else to give back other than money. I don't code and I'm only an end user so paying for this great distro is all I have to give. It is well worth the yearly powerpack fee.

Re:How does it compare to Ubuntu? (1)

lezard (866687) | more than 4 years ago | (#29993144)

Mandriva is free. There is only one version (Powerpack) which is not. It's up to you : I've always used the free version.

Mandrake? (-1, Troll)

gainpresence (1082679) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991560)

Wait... Mandrake got a sex change!? When did that happen, and why don't I care?

Re:Mandrake? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991902)

yes it got a mangina

Am I the only one who cares? (2)

linuxgeek64 (1246964) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991578)

I actually really like Mandriva, unlike others here >_>

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (1)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991636)

I used it before ubuntu, (2005/6) and found it a bit chunky. Is it still chunky?

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (4, Interesting)

amRadioHed (463061) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991748)

It had a few questionable releases around the Mandrake/Mandriva switch, but it's very very good now. From what I've seen it's probably one of the best distros for KDE, better than Fedora and Kubuntu.

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991764)

If Mandriva is chunky... Ubuntu is a bit brown and watery...

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (4, Interesting)

genericpoweruser (1223032) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991642)

No I also like Mandriva. Here's to hoping Mandriva 2010 undoes some of the damage caused to the Linux image by the Ubuntu Karmic release SNAFU.
I wouldn't mind seeing Mandriva gain some ground, and some new packages in the process.

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (2, Interesting)

Sasayaki (1096761) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991834)

Here's to hoping Mandriva 2010 undoes some of the damage caused to the Linux image by the Ubuntu Karmic release SNAFU.

Everyone keeps saying that, but... for my home I upgraded a dozen total Ubuntu installs including desktop machines, laptops, virtual machines, file and database servers, MythBuntu frontends and backends... and encountered absolutely no issues. :/ The first I heard of any upgrade problems at all was on Slashdot.

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (2, Insightful)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992618)

Seems like even if only 10 people had issues, most mindless dotters would jump on it. What is the big deal with wanting to slag off Ubuntu? I really don't have any problems with not having to edit config files just to get my basic system set up. I don't have problems with editing config files either, I work as a programmer, and I enjoy highly configurable systems. Ubuntu is still much more configurable than Windows or OSX. I don't see what other things need to be configurable that I couldn't change if I wanted to. As far as being a desktop OS is concerned, it seems pretty much as close to perfect as anything I've ever used.

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (1)

darthflo (1095225) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992880)

+1; tried to install it yesterday, not a snow ball's chance in hell to get the fucker booting without configuring grub myself. This could possibly be related to installing it on an mdraid root in a box with some 22 SATA devices spread over five controllers, making the root (hdN,M) quite difficult to predict with varying drivers between pre-boot grub and post-boot config environment.
Fortunately one can fiddle with anything and everything; works like a charm until the next update breaks everything :]

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (3, Interesting)

Mursili (670309) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991692)

No, I care too. I have been running it continuously (as in 24/7/365) as a mail and webserver since 2002. Upgraded repeatedly without major difficulties from Mandrake 8.2 to Mandriva 2009.1. Ubuntu is currently as easy to install and use, but there was no Ubuntu back in 2002 and Mandrake's hardware detection and auto-configuration were top-notch. I've stayed with it because none of the upgrades broke anything I couldn't fix in half an hour.

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992312)

So 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 weeks a year?

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (1)

darthflo (1095225) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992894)

Now in 2004 and 2008, on which day did you turn it off? 29 Feb or 31 Dec?

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (4, Funny)

travisb828 (1002754) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991812)

> Am I the only one who cares?

There may be one or two others.

I learned long ago arguing over what Linux disto is best is like arguing about the best beer. Each one is unique and appeals to certain people. You have popular distos like Ubuntu and Red Hat/Fedora. Just like you have your popular beers like Budwiser and Coors. The users of the less popular distros usually look down on the users of the more popular distros. In the same way the drinkers of less popular beers look down on the drinkers of the more popular beers.

As for me, I'm typing this response into Chromium using Gnome that is running on Gentoo with special combination of USE flags that is optimized for my unique usage pattern of pr0n, Slashdot, EVE Online, TV/VCR repair, and database administration.

Also, thinking of beer made me get a Guinness out of the fridge before finishing this post.

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (3, Insightful)

Simmeh (1320813) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991898)

Budweiser and Coors are popular? You must be American.

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (3, Insightful)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992296)

I know a lot of European girls who drink those brands!

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992502)

So here your sig really means "this is binging"

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (3, Interesting)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991840)

I do too; it makes it easy to do the kinds of things a home user wants to do, without insulting your intelligence, requiring crazy and arcane knowledge, or being overly pushy with the Free Software approach (they offer a F/OSS-only download, but they also offer an ISO with the useful free-as-in-beer proprietary stuff bundled). Their releases are more frequent than openSuse's, I've never had the instability problems that I get with Fedora (seriously, Fedora 10 crashes whenever I manage to connect it to my network, haven't bothered trying it again since then), and I massively prefer its design philosophy and UI over that of Ubuntu.

It's a good distro and keeps making progress (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991866)

I've been using Mandriva for many years and like it as well. Originally I picked it because it had the best mix of stable, secure servers out of the box and installed postfix by default back when Sendmail was buggy. Decent firewall, tons of packages, xinetd is easy to configure. Bugs actually get fixed. I'm not a fan of the way KDE is going--it's a reasource hog on a low end system and it's too easy to fuck up your desktop and not be able to restore it with all those plasmids or panels or whatever, but their Gnome setup has gotten a lot of love in the past couple of releases.

Re:Am I the only one who cares? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992398)

They seem to be the only ones who are doing a really good job with KDE4.

Every other distro I've tried has made KDE4 feel like the steaming pile of poo that everyone said it was, but Mandriva made it feel like a really good desktop.

I don't know how they've done that when no-one else seems to be able to, but it does prove that in the hands of a good distributor, KDE4 is actually a very good piece of software. If only the Kubuntu or Suse guys could put in the kind of effort that the Mandriva team have obviously made.

(the irony is that back in the day -- 2005-ish, when I tried Mandrake previously -- I found it one of the worst KDE distros from a look+feel perspective. I'm glad they've turned it around).

Surprised (0, Troll)

greenlead (841089) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991614)

I'm surprised they are still around. I thought most individuals had switched to the quality free distributions like Ubuntu and Fedora, and most Linux-using businesses were using CentOS, Red Hat Enterprise or Suse.

Re:Surprised (4, Funny)

amRadioHed (463061) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991730)

Mandriva is quality free distribution.

Re:Surprised (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991790)

I see what you did there.

Re:Surprised (3, Informative)

molnarcs (675885) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992072)

"Quality free distributions" - are you trolling? Mandriva is free. Yes, they have a commercial edition (powerpack) that comes with some proprietary software, but they offeer completely free editions (Mandriva One, Mandriva Free) that are just like any other free editions. And about quality - Mandriva 2009 spring received glowing review, and having used it for a few months, I can confirm - it's probably one of the finest distribution, especially if you look at their KDE implementation. Which reminds me - since when can you mention quality and ubuntu together when it comes to KDE?

Re:Surprised (1)

gzipped_tar (1151931) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992190)

Quality free distro... is that some new kind of marketing babble?

"Download SlashDotOS now! The most recent quality free distro! Completely free of quality!"

I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (5, Insightful)

TihSon (1065170) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991620)

I have been using Mandriva since the days of Mandrake ... 8.1 specifically ... and frankly each time I have tried switching to any other distro I always find myself coming back. Not that the other distros are bad, but I honestly think Mandriva has the hardware detection down cold, and has been routinely better than any others. When the 'buntu showed up I tried switching, and every iteration had a deal breaker. I stopped trying at the LTS edition. Today the only other distro I use is Zenwalk, not some mainstream hotshot like Suse, fedora or Ubuntu.

I guess I am asking, why is it that such a good, arguably superior, distro seems to have to pull teeth just to get a few scraps of publicity, while some others seem to be living in some sort of reality distortion field?

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (5, Insightful)

onefriedrice (1171917) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991722)

I guess I am asking, why is it that such a good, arguably superior, distro seems to have to pull teeth just to get a few scraps of publicity, while some others seem to be living in some sort of reality distortion field?

It's the name. Ubuntu is fun to say. Gentoo is fun to say. Suse and Fedora are fun to say.

Mandriva is painful to say.

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (1)

genericpoweruser (1223032) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991766)

"Manned river" (but with the er in river pronounced differently) is easier to say than Ooboontoo or Soozu, IMO...

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (1)

ushering05401 (1086795) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991908)

It's the name. Ubuntu is fun to say.

Yeah, I'm sure Biko enjoyed begging for it while they were bashing his brains out. I am sure am glad to run an OS based on such a fun concept. Now, about bug #1, maybe we need to go tickle Ballmer till he keels over with joy... Or just keep saying Mandriva till he begs for mercy.

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992626)

I liked Mandrake as the name :-( damn magicians

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29993088)

Yup. This is something the community seems oblivious too in many instances, but on a global scale, names become very important.

Notice how everyone happily adds "Linux" to anything but "GNU" seems drop away. This is not a political thing. Linux is a very sexy, easy word. GNU is a recursive acronym that starts with two consonants.

Ubuntu isn't a super sexy word, but it's ok. Mandriva sounds like a fruit.

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (1)

genericpoweruser (1223032) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991744)

Mandriva deserves some love. It was the first distro that enabled the correct graphics driver on my laptop (on most distros I'd have to manually change xorg.conf to use vesa--even though this was around summer last year) and configure my wifi card correctly straight from the liveCD. No distro I've tried to date properly configures my audio chipset, but the workaround works as well on Mandriva as it does on any other.

In other words, Mandriva has the best hardware detection of any distro I've tried. My congratulations to the developers on their new release!

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991754)

I guess I am asking, why is it that such a good, arguably superior, distro seems to have to pull teeth just to get a few scraps of publicity, while some others seem to be living in some sort of reality distortion field?

Cumulative advantage.

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991896)

I guess I am asking, why is it that such a good, arguably superior, distro seems to have to pull teeth just to get a few scraps of publicity, while some others seem to be living in some sort of reality distortion field?

Maybe it has something to do with the fact it's French.

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (5, Insightful)

greatica (1586137) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991916)

I've used Mandrake/Mandriva a couple of times too. Ironically enough a number of computer science peers jeered at it, calling it "n00b Linux".

You know, because we should all embrace distributions that are a pain to get working properly.

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (1, Interesting)

FreakyGreenLeaky (1536953) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991956)

I guess I am asking, why is it that such a good, arguably superior, distro seems to have to pull teeth just to get a few scraps of publicity, while some others seem to be living in some sort of reality distortion field?

Critical mass, branding, marketing.

Anyway, I love linux and use it heavily on all our production servers, clusters, etc, and have done so for over 10 years.

However, linux (all distros) still sucks on the desktop, and I think it always will. Printing is unreliable, windows/forms behaviour is inconsistent (default buttons, tab behaviour, etc), the GUI (gnome/kde) is slow unless you have decent hardware, the fonts are terrible, copy/paste between apps is a joke, audio is unreliable (how about having a single driver that works consistently?), etc, etc. Yes, there are workarounds, and yes things are slowly improving, but for fuck sakes, how many more years is it going to take? Surely you cannot expect an average computer user to struggle with this kind of sub-standard nonsense? For the time being, I wish aficionados would stop pretending that Linux-on-the-desktop is ready for prime-time.

The desktop people have had years to sort this basic stuff out, yet their focus is on more features, more flash, prettier colours, more screensavers, as opposed to fixing things (and as much as commercial software sucks in other ways, at least they fix the basic shit -- here the linux kernel and decent server-distro (RH, CentOS, Suse) shines btw, those boys FIX things). Linux on the desktop has such potential, yet they just can't seem to get it right (and Redmond folk are pooping their pants laughing).

Not all distros suck at all of those mentioned, but every one lacks in some way. Sadly, I don't think it will ever be a real quality desktop experience since the developers don't have a financial interest to ensure quality and are not held accountable for their failings, so QA is severely lacking.

If you want to save money and can live with the shortcomings, then by all means use linux on the desktop, otherwise use windows or get a mac. This is my advice to all those folks I deal with on a daily basis and I've yet to be proven wrong (have you tried explaining to a busy professional why printing is not working (or why a print job has to be RE-authorised again and again because Ubuntu is not remembering the password/tick-mark), or why flash is not working in Firefox, or why the sound is crackling (and changing the audio driver back/forth magically solves it), or why the default PDF viewer is Xpdf (which makes me laugh and spill my coffee with it's antiquated X 1990s interface) -- these people don't want to struggle with the basic shit, they want to focus on their job.

I want to believe, but the reality is disappointing.

Yes, all this has been said before, but I believe the more it's said and in more forums, the sooner they'll take notice and do what needs to be done.

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992992)

For the time being, I wish aficionados would stop pretending that Linux-on-the-desktop is ready for prime-time.

I don't say that to anyone, I fully understand that people have different needs and different hardware.

I will say this: I get to choose the hardware I use and I know what to choose (or at least I have well-informed cow-orkers I can consult). As a result everything that I need works out of the box: audio, video, wireless, hibernation, power management, flash, etc. (ok, I admit: I added debian-multimedia.org as a software source, but that's it).

Based on this totally anecdotal evidence I tend to believe that the major problems -- things that prevent using the system -- are specific to certain pieces or combinations of hardware. That will be fixed if the operating system is sold pre-installed so someone (Dell, Lenovo, ...) actually makes sure the hardware specific bugs really are ironed out, just like they do with Windows.

Complaining about many of these problems to distro engineers may work for a specific problem, but it seems clear to me that the way forward is for the hardware manufacturers and integrators to start testing things on more than one operating system -- otherwise new hardware will always have these problems: the distribution engineers can only fix problems after the fact, and that's not enough. This is a chicken-and-egg problem of course, but I'm confident that there is a breaking point ahead after which linux testing becomes the norm instead of an afterthought.

The rest of the problems you mentioned may be show stoppers for you (like I said I do understand people value different things), but my guess is that they really aren't critical to most, or at least many, people. However, these usability problems (say, ugly fonts or bad default apps) are something that distribution engineers can improve on, much more so than driver problems.

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992002)

I agree with you. I think it's partly it just takes a good distro time to impact the popularity, and thus large happy community, of Ubuntu. I think functionally Mandriva is Ubuntu's match except where it's better -- like great hardware detect. I've been wishing Ubuntu would learn from that distro. Meanwhile Ubuntu has a _huge_ community base, and any question is quickly dealt with in spades with a Google search. So I still install Ubuntu for friends and family.

And party, it's the name. I'm fine with names like Gnome and Ubuntu and KDE and Leopard even something pathetic like "XP". Names don't bother me much. But "Mandriva"? It's just neither here nor there somehow. I call it the "Freddie Mercury" distro, just to give the name some meaning.

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992198)

It is definitely a mystery as to why Mandrake (it will always be Mandrake to me) has never gained the publicity of the other distros. There was a period in the early part of the decade (2002-05ish) when it was hands down the best distro around, yet never recieved the attention of say Redhat or Suse.

I moved away from Mandrake when I started working at a big Uni which had its own home grown fork of RedHat (the fork made redhat actually quite good), and I never came back to it. Eventually I found Ubuntu and never looked back.

Mandrake was the first distro that I could get to work properly, and it will always have a place in my heart!

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992340)

When you are offering poo to the public for free they ask for it.

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (3, Insightful)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992372)

I can't speak for the rest of the world, but I can share my experience.

Back in 2001 or 2002 I bought a copy of Mandrake Linux. I had no Internet access (because I just moved) and I needed something for my new laptop, and I'd heard good things about Mandrake. I was sorely disappointed by it. It was heavy (taking a lot of disk space, memory and CPU time), and, apparently like every RPM-based distro at the time, had broken package management and bad quality packages (Mandrake managed to gain some fame for being unable to run Wine, for example).

I am sure Mandrake/Mandriva has improved since then, but it's been too late to keep me. I've discovered Debian, where time spent on system maintenance is minimal because its package management works, its packages work, they have a larger collection of packages than any other distro I've seen (meaning less time spent installing from source), and I feel safe upgrading my entire system in the expectation that everything will still work afterwards.

Even if Mandriva now provides all these things, that wouldn't compel me to switch, because I already have everything I care about.

I suspect it is the same way for others: either Mandriva doesn't offer compelling enough advantages over their current OS to make people want to switch, or people have had bad experiences in the past that make them want to avoid Mandriva. The fact that the project seems to have difficulty getting new releases out and the company behind it has been close to folding probably doesn't help, either.

(Just to be perfectly clear, none of this has anything to do with the technical quality of today's Mandriva. I am not saying it isn't an excellent product which deserves more attention. Just trying to explain why it isn't getting what it deserves.)

Re:I think Mandriva is getting a raw deal from us. (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992408)

I think the first and foremost answer to that is that people don't want complexity. When somebody new asks them what distro they should try out, the last thing you want to do is to answer "Try Mandriva or Ubuntu or Fedora or OpenSuse or....", you only confuse them by saying they have different strengths and weaknesses. It's like talking the details of spin and reach and weight of a racket to someone who needs to learn to hit the ball. Single straight answer: "Ubuntu". Not that it really had to be that distro, but it's a rolling snowball. Now, why that answer isn't Mandriva...

I did try Mandriva, or I think it was Mandrake back then, and for me it had issues. Of course this is highly anecdotal, but I wasn't the only one who went with Debian instead because Debian had those issues fixed, and it didn't really matter what's on top if the base wasn't solid. And Debian was very good in terms of system stability, quality of base packages and all that, I'm sure it still is. It just was terribly desktop-unfriendly at the time, it was in many ways little things like not having a graphical boot that just screamed at you "this is not really a desktop distro". Ubuntu's early sales pitch was really "Debian with focus on the desktop".

In practice you won some and lost some, but it was an easy sales pitch. Pretty much everyone using Debian on the desktop gave it a go, I think. Mandriva? Always there but never managed to make a big splash saying "Hey, try me again". Yes, it's a bit like lemmings but the big lemming invasion in Ubuntu has also lead to results. There's a lot of things that have been fixed that I feel never got attention or priority in Debian, maybe it could have happened some other way but I guess it was easier to think Ubuntu could put a good face on Debian than believing Mandriva could make the basics as solid as Debian.

you only get a couple of chances (1)

jipn4 (1367823) | more than 4 years ago | (#29993040)

I remember trying it a long time ago and it didn't work right for me, so I never went back. It may have improved by now, but my current Linux distro works fine for me--why should I bother?

-Finally- out? (5, Insightful)

atheistmonk (1268392) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991632)

It isn't even 2010 yet!

Re:-Finally- out? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992004)

Mandriva and automakers run on Yearbuzz Saving Time.

Re:-Finally- out? (1)

kahless62003 (1372913) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992014)

Well you could wait six months for the service pack- ahem I mean spring version.

FWIW I've used Mandriva since 2005, and consider it a pretty solid distro, with many newbie friendly features as well as not dumbing things down or limiting the more advanced user too much.

Re:-Finally- out? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992040)

They got their version naming scheme idea from car dealer. Have you seen the new 2010 Chevy's? They've been out since June!

Re:-Finally- out? (2, Funny)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992886)

It's the OS development way: Linux is one year in front on releases, MS is one year behind.

Whichever moron tagged this as "irrelevant"... (4, Insightful)

Adam Jorgensen (1302989) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991848)

...needs to be shot. Mandriva is still the best desktop linux distro out there. Ubuntu is made of fail because it loves Gnomes. OpenSuse is made of fail because it's full of clunky "enterprise" (Another word for "crap") admin stuff. Fedora is made of fail because RedHat is more interested in RHEL than anything else. That leaves Mandriva. It's fast, it's free (Despite OP might think. Hint: Try visiting the Mandriva website and clicking on the Download link...), boasts great repos, wonderful configuration tools and is all round a top noch desktop experience. It's what I use at work because I need a distro I can rely on to install right, work properly and not throw up a fuss when it comes to installing software, playing music and getting things done.

You post is irrelevant... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991904)

...since you decided to use this year's most overused word, "fail", as a noun. When you can make a post without using trendwords, maybe I'll take you seriously.

Re:Whichever moron tagged this as "irrelevant"... (3, Insightful)

petrus4 (213815) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992082)

Mandriva is still the best desktop linux distro out there. Ubuntu is made of fail because it loves Gnomes.

The Ubuntu using moderators are really stretching, here. How exactly is this Offtopic?

Canonical are the collective village idiot of the entire FOSS community. Whichever members of the Lloyd Christmas demographic who use it and get mod points here, can mod it down as much as they want. They won't change the fact, and the fact is this:-

Ubuntu and Debian are both unmitigated garbage. I just installed Arch this morning. The install took three hours, and had none of the problems which I had constantly for six weeks with Ubuntu Intrepid.

Sound? Just works, with ALSA. Considering how bad my experience was with Intrepid, I was amazed.

Video? Nvidia drivers; just worked.

X? I could install whichever window manager I wanted at the outset, which means I wasn't left with struggling to either live with or somehow uninstall the rancid fecal matter that is GNOME.

No kernel panics. No flickering. No sound dropping out. It just works.

Mandriva was a good distro too, last time I used it.

I'm fed up with Ubuntu users. If it was just your obscenity of a distribution that was a problem, I could cope with simply not using it. That isn't my biggest issue, however.

You insist on lying and engaging in denial about everything that is wrong with it, and suppressing complaint about said problems in any way you can. I know how this post is immediately headed for -1, and the reason given doesn't matter at all, does it?

Go ahead; do it. Bury what I'm saying here, and what EVERY ONE else, other than you, is saying about Shuttleworth's miscarriage of a distribution. Ubuntu is falling apart. Karmic was supposed to be a fix for Jaunty, and now it's giving everyone hell to the same degree.

You can't bury the truth. You can either keep burying your heads in the sand until Canonical go under, and Mark Shuttleworth ends up potentially worth nothing more than the shirt on his back, or you can actually start trying to change things.

Re:Whichever moron tagged this as "irrelevant"... (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992118)

The Ubuntu using moderators are really stretching, here. How exactly is this Offtopic?

It maybe because there's no moderation tag for "annoying" that offtopic has been used as a substitute. Could anyone in good conscience really mod-up a post with so many uses of "fail" as a noun?

Re:Whichever moron tagged this as "irrelevant"... (2, Insightful)

jimicus (737525) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992600)

I wouldn't describe Debian as unmitigated garbage - if you use it for a server you have no need of a flashy GUI or top-notch video and wireless support and it excels there. That is, after all, the core focus of Debian.

Ubuntu, OTOH - I can take it or leave it. I've spent the last two days wrestling with Ubuntu myself for a specific project and I'm just about ready to jack it in and run Mandriva.

Re:Whichever moron tagged this as "irrelevant"... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29993182)

There's no point in trying to have a reasoned discussion with petrus4 about some issues, in my opinion. It seems that if something (Debian, GNOME, FSF, Ubuntu, Wikipedia, whatever else) has flaws, it is always an unmitigated disaster without possibility of salvation and anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial and a group-thinking sheep.

I like a good argument and the guy probably has some points hidden in there but trying to discuss things from that starting point... pointless if you ask me.

Back to the point: I use Debian as a laptop distro myself and it works wonderfully (but then again, I am probably in denial). I used Ubuntu for a few years in between but went back to Debian because Ubuntu just seemed to break more than they fixed...

Re:Whichever moron tagged this as "irrelevant"... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29993142)

>...needs to be shot.
Ack.
>Ubuntu is made of fail because it loves Gnomes.
What's bout XUbuntu and KUbuntu? What's about Debian?
>[..]
I'd mod it Troll, if I only could..

Yawn (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991870)

Windows 7 is here. Linux can eat a dick for all I care.

LOL (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29991946)

You won't be so haughty after Linux eats your dick!

Hope you don't mind sitting down to pee like the little fucking bitch that you are! :)

golf can be sexy (1)

shelly.green (1631649) | more than 4 years ago | (#29991930)

Kylie Minogue say:"golf can be sexy" more of that you can inference http://www.igolfyoo.com/ [igolfyoo.com]

And expect Penguin Liberation Front uo update too (4, Informative)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992192)

There is a wonderful location for software whose licenses make it difficult to include in Mandriva, such as libdvdcss for reading DVD's in the USA, emulators for game consoles because Mandriva won't incorporate them directly to avoid US DMCA legal issues, and Dan Bernstein's oddball tools whose licenses used to prevent rebundling. It's called the Penguin Liberation Front, it's built around Mandriva, and its source RPM's are convenient for any RPM based distro that wants access to these tools.

I find it extremely handy because it has old, weird tools like xv and vtwm for which I sadly miss development.

Is There a Joke? (1)

PingPongBoy (303994) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992276)

Probably an old joke here - Mandriva ... makes me wonder if I should trust it more as a passenger, in contrast to Womandriva.

YUO FAIl IT.. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992402)

Fact: *BSD is dying and sling or table a fuul-time GNAA on baby...don't Practical purposes, = 36440 FreeBSD told reporters, Recent article put

GMA500 (1)

jbernardo (1014507) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992602)

Anyone knows how is the support for GMA500 netbooks? I've tried googling for it, but didn't understand if it is included by default or one needs to do the same kind of jumps through hoops as in kubuntu.

Re:GMA500 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29992724)

yes, it is supported via the poulsbo drivers that are available in Mandriva 2010. They're included in the One edition. You may need to use XFdrake to configure it first, but otherwise it should be fine.

The sad fortune of distributions... (2, Insightful)

tjstork (137384) | more than 4 years ago | (#29992996)

I remember when, for a time, Mandrake was -the- Linux to get. Now look at them, practically off the radar.

A true diamond in the rough (1)

petrus4 (213815) | more than 4 years ago | (#29993210)

My experience with Mandrake was probably three years or so ago now. It was right before the name change, if memory serves.

I had an old CD from a magazine cover from a few months before that; same old story. I needed an LFS host, and at the time was on 56k dialup, so downloading anything was out of the question. I was extremely ambivalent about using Mandrake, because at the time, it had the reputation as the resident "user friendly," distro; but as they say, any port in a storm. I closed my eyes, held my nose, and dived in.

I was extremely, and pleasantly, surprised. Hardware got detected from memory, with the exception of the winmodem, but I didn't blame Linux for that; at the time I was having to jerry rig/compile half a kernel binary to get it to co-operate. The environment was KDE with a nice, blue, very European theme.

Sure, it was still a bit of a fixer-upper; LFS needed a couple of extra things installed and mildly fiddled with before it would build, but given the integrity of binary only distros these days, that's fairly standard. Some of the rpm spec files made baby Jesus cry, as well.

What amazed me, was that for a supposed newb distro, it was as flexible as it was. I could install things if I wanted to, and get away with compiling from source, which was extremely rare for rpm-based distros, at least back then. (I haven't used rpm in probably 3.5 years) I was also able to change things via the config files I was used to from Slackware as well, without too much work.

Based on that experience at least (although I'm assuming some things have changed now) I feel quite positive towards Mandriva. It still isn't a distro that I would *go out of my way* to get, (my preferred environments are either FreeBSD or Arch; although then again, that was three years ago; in fairness I probably should take the new release out for a spin before judging) but I'm not knocking it, either.

Convenience distros can actually be good in a jam if the fundamental design is not *too* bad. I also used to crap on rpm a lot, but it is better than I used to give it credit for, and I have an American sysadmin friend who swears it's come miles since I last used it. For anything where I wanted to carry a cd around full of binaries to slam onto a system *fast,* then as long as the spec files are written well, rpm is good.

If you're a novice and want something convenient, but not as broken as Ubuntu, or if you're a veteran but need something quick and dirty, and don't mind wiping off a bit of said dirt, Mandriva could be just the ticket.

Mandrake lived and died by RPM (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 4 years ago | (#29993028)

Mandriva's not even run by the guy that founded Mandrake. So everyone that remembers the old Mandrake should remember that this is just somebody else with sorta the same name doing the distro now.

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