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Norwegian Court Rules ISP Doesn't Have To Block The Pirate Bay

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the arrr-me-hearties dept.

The Courts 154

C4st13v4n14 writes "In a sudden outbreak of uncommon sense yesterday, a Norwegian District Court handed down the decision that Telenor, Norway's largest ISP, will not have to block access to The Pirate Bay. Telenor was sued earlier this year by the IFPI after being threatened and not backing down. 'The court ruled that Telenor is not contributing to any infringements of copyright law when its subscribers use The Pirate Bay, and therefore there is no legal basis for forcing the ISP to block access to the site. ... In making its decision, the court also had to examine the repercussions if it ruled that Telenor and other ISPs had to block access to certain websites.'"

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I'm thinking about moving to Norway (5, Interesting)

MrLeap (1014911) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012552)

Why is norway always ahead of the curve in nearly everything?

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (4, Insightful)

Nuno Sa (1095047) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012566)

It's cold there... Anyway it's nice to see that some countries have not fallen for the global brainwashing taking place today around the world.

Congrats to them!
(It's here, the dark ages began: we have to congratulate common sense)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (4, Interesting)

Narpak (961733) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012776)

In a sudden outbreak of uncommon sense yesterday..

I shall be a bit pedantic that this isn't the first time the Norwegian courts actually use reason and rational assessment before issuing a verdict.

A man was taken to court for uploading a pirated version of the Norwegian movie "Falne Engler" and was let go with a warning. This and the fact that Kripos (special investigation unit) refused to "waste resources" investigating illegal file sharing (though also because of the current Norwegian law makes it difficult to prosecute anyone for file sharing); has members of the Norwegian movie/music/whatever lobby fuming.
Rudimentary translated quote from Ketil Haukaas, assistant chief of Kripos [teknofil.no]
We have dedicated investigators in some areas, like war crimes and internet related abuse of children. File sharing doesn't not warrant that kind of priority

Vi har dedikerte etterforskere på noen områder, som krigsforbrytelser og internettrelaterte overgrep mot barn. Problemområdet fildeling tilsier ikke en slik prioritet at det er en fornuftig vei å gå


Up to the point that article was written (in 2008) 182 reports of illegal file sharing had been delivered by IFPI; four were investigated and the only case "solved" was the one I mentioned earlier where the perpetrator was let go with a warning.

So this "out break of common sense" wasn't exactly sudden.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (0, Flamebait)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012974)

I shall be a bit pedantic that this isn't the first time the Norwegian courts actually use reason and rational assessment before issuing a verdict. A man was taken to court for uploading a pirated version of the Norwegian movie "Falne Engler" and was let go with a warning.

But according to the dominant slashdot dogma, isn't it a crime against humanity that this man was given a warning? After all, information wants to be free, and copyright law is an abomination. So, shouldn't this man have been given a medal for helping free the information?

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (4, Insightful)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013110)

Actually, I thought the dominant /. dogma was that artists actually should be fairly compensated for what they do, but also that million-dollar judgments in favor of record companies against Joe Schmoe Filesharer doesn't have anything to do with that.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

S1ngularity (1635987) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014628)

Depends on the /.-er for the most part. But the more radical anti-copyright stances are still very reasonable sounding. Something along the lines of, creating art doesn't imbue you with a supreme power of censorship. Also, the point of copyright isn't to make an artist's money (that's the mechanism, not the purpose) but to make sure that there is a wide variety of art for the public to enjoy. Once law starts handing out monopoly rights basic economics says that supply will be restricted to enhance profits. For copyright to even make sense on its own grounds, it is necessary to prove that the monopoly power fueled restriction in product does not exceed the art spurring promise of a specific business model for art monetization. With the recent crackdown on re-mixing culture and the like, it seems quite possible that more art is actually prevented from reaching people than is encouraged into existence.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

juletre (739996) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013642)

We are beginning to catch up. The words "terrorist" and "pedophile" are used as often as possible to get what you want politically.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (4, Funny)

haruchai (17472) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012596)

Cold weather, hot women, health care, and common sense. If their food is any good, maybe I'll move also

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (4, Funny)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012638)

Four out of five [wikipedia.org] isn't bad, I suppose. *sigh*

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (4, Funny)

mark_hill97 (897586) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012660)

I beg to differ [wikipedia.org]

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30012722)

Like grilling bits of meat, mixing starch and dairy/fat is almost impossible to screw up. It's not a good indicator of how good the local food is.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012926)

What does "local food" mean anyway? If you mean traditional foods, they're pretty weird everywhere for outsiders (and well I dont even like some of my country's ones and think they're just weird). Now a days you can pretty much get any kind of food anywhere you like, so it doesn't really matter.

That being said, the bread that parent linked (Lefse) is really good. These [pagen.se] are similar, really really good bread.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013350)

You also forgot that Opera [opera.com] comes from Norway.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

Esteanil (710082) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013252)

Yummiest thing you can have only* in Norway [highnorth.no]
(* = So probably not in your country, except if you're japanese or from iceland/greenland )

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (2, Insightful)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013318)

Bacon makes everything good.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014090)

Yes, we have bacon in Norway!

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30014498)

Yeah, for uncultivated Americans I suppose.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

juletre (739996) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013512)

Smalahove [wikipedia.org] . How could you not mention the smalahove?

Actually I am trying this for the first time in a couple of weeks. I really really want to eat the eye for the bragging rights, but somehow I don't think I am going to do it. It might depend on this little fellow [wikipedia.org]

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013708)

Lutefisk is awesome.

Saying that Lutefisk isn't good is just like berating the Scots for their whisky. It is an acqured taste.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

Omestes (471991) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014714)

They have decent pastry, at least.

Hot women *and* weather soon enough.... (2, Funny)

macraig (621737) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012788)

Have you forgotten about global warming? Soon enough Norway might be the new Costa Rica: hot weather AND women. The food will probably be hot and spicy, too. But will the women still be fair-skinned and blonde? Hope you like the Latin/Caribbean/Mediterranean look.

Re:Hot women *and* weather soon enough.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30014318)

The first couple of years, it will be the sunburned_all_the_time look.

Re:Hot women *and* weather soon enough.... (1)

macraig (621737) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014862)

I'm investing in a sunscreen manufacturer right now!

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (3, Informative)

u38cg (607297) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012978)

Check out the price of beer first though. They didn't get everything *quite* right...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (2, Interesting)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013028)

Exactly, and it's the same in all scandinavian countries (for all alcohol). Majority comes from the insane taxation of alcohol, which is supposed to increase general health.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (2, Interesting)

hasdikarlsam (414514) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013312)

As studies show (and yes, I've read the studies; they make sense), it does.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1, Troll)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013328)

It also makes the drinking culture different. Instead of socially drinking a few drinks/beers, people get mad drunk on weekends "because it costs so much, so we drink all we can when we do". That also leads to all kinds of other kind of problems.

Alcohol results in much worse results when you have to go for the full price at single times instead of spreading it around, like how the drinking culture is in germany and france.

Well, that's a first... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013438)

It also makes the drinking culture different. Instead of socially drinking a few drinks/beers, people get mad drunk on weekends "because it costs so much, so we drink all we can when we do".

I've never before heard the claim that high alcohol prices lead to drinking huge amounts at a time instead of spreading it around and frankly I can't find the logic in that statement - why would anyone think like that? To claim the reason for such a long standing social phenom, a cultural trait going back for centuries to be in alcohol prices is absurd, even if there is correlation. Usually I hear the "The countries in which have been serfs + finland drink heavily on weekends" or "The countries which have been under russian influence drink heavily on weekends" in which it is easier to find the causality.

The usual argument is that "Alcohol is such a social taboo that people can't drink during weeks so then on weekends they drink like hell" and this makes sense to me but I'm not sure if even that applies anymore. I'm a student so our alcohol culture is naturally different (Taboos don't really exist there) but even in my last workplace (internet marketing company, so mostly young folk) there were people who would grab a beer or two on a weekday and they weren't really scowled that much. The latest progression actually shows that in many middle european countries (Germany, France, Italy...) they actually keep their drinking culture and IN ADDITION are beginning to drink a lot every once in a while... So I don't really think that making alcohol less of a taboo is going to solve the problem.

Quite opposite, I think that alcohol should be more of a taboo here in Finland: The teenagers drink alcohol. We all know that. They do so pretty publicly. Police usually don't pay much attention to that and if parents find out that underage child has been drinking, they don't really act as if it was that serious - as everyone is doing it.

Prices for alcohol are so high because at least us Finns drink as much as we can afford. As underage kids we drink as much we have money. When we get to become students, I can't count the times I've heard "I'd love to join you for a beer/take one more but can't afford to" and I know that all those alcoholists without jobs drink as much as they can afford. High prices really lower the consumption a lot, which is great. The only group to which this doesn't apply is those with a lot of money (steady jobs, no longer loans, no small kids or a young wife/husband to complain about spending all the money) and in general those people have the least problems with alcohol.

As such, I - as a heavily drinking student and as an occasional taxpayer - do support our high prices for alcohol.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (4, Informative)

bogjobber (880402) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013514)

That's not really as constant as you make it seem. In many countries that have cheap booze and very tolerant attitudes toward alcohol people get drunk like crazy (Spain, UK being examples) while others do not. I'm sure if alcohol prices dropped in Scandinavian countries there would be more drinking, but cultural factors are probably more important.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

juletre (739996) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013688)

Good wine is cheap, bad wine expensive.

Because vinmonopolet ("the wine monopoly", the only place to get wine) is stately driven its prices are regulated by law. Everything gets a tax depending on the alcohol content and then a flat fee is added on top of that. The trick is that noting of this is connected to what polet (or "the pole" as it is know) actually paid for the wine.
When they have a really good wine they cannot point to demand and raise the prices as a private store owner would do. This makes cheap high-end wine. I have heard tales of Frenchmen coming up here to buy expensive wine and sell with a profit back home, but have not been able to confirm this.

Sadly, I cannot afford the high-end stuff. I am stuck with the pricey low-end.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30014970)

Sweden has expensive alcohol, Norway has very expensive alcohol, Denmark doesn't so all the swedes and norwegians go to Denmark and drink

Norway seems to have a religious beef with anything fun or unhealthy, but they also have lots of oil so the pattern in normal ;)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014096)

Compare it to the wages. A McDonald's worker gets at least as much beer as in US for his paycheck.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013192)

If their food is any good,

Tough question.

We seem to have a habit of winning Bocuse d'Or and similar competitions.

Most norwegians haven't got a clue, though. Our grocery stores are frankly crap, most norwegian food is industrially produced by big corporations, and is expensive to top it off.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013586)

Its the perfect country, the problem is that its infested by smug norwegians.. /love from sweden

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

Eivind Eklund (5161) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014216)

Cold weather, hot women, health care, and common sense. If their food is any good, maybe I'll move also

Whether the food is good depends on where you are. There's a quite good selection in the cities in the southern part of the country (most of the ones you'll hear about), both in terms of quality and availability in shops and restaurants (ethnic or french inspired, for the most part). There's more remote parts that have a horrid selection.

Norway does not really have that much of a classic food culture; we used to be poor. The present day food culture is to a large degree imported; lots of Italian and a bit of indian/mexican/etc. Going back a while, it was more germanic, so you'll find germanic inspired dishes as the more "old school" dishes. E.g, first fry and then cook meat, and serve with root vegetables and gravy.

Eivind.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014662)

another thing to consider is that the seasons do not allow for much fresh food year round, unless one imports, so a lot of the traditional foods are stuff that's salted/pickled, dried, or that basically keeps over the winter.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (3, Informative)

saladpuncher (633633) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012642)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

roguetrick (1147853) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012810)

Now to learn norwegian. Du lukter dritgodt.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013080)

"Du lukter like godt som drit". Ja, takk for den! Muligens den er akseptabel blant tenåringer...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (5, Interesting)

Narpak (961733) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012812)

From the Huffingtonpost article "Norway's consistently high rating for desirable living standards, is, in large part, the result of the discovery of offshore oil and gas deposits in the late 1960s."

What isn't mentioned is that when oil and gas were discovered the Norwegian government decided to nationalize those resources (meaning state owned and operated) as the profit from such industry should benefit all the citizens of Norway. They then proceeded to borrow tons of money from various other nations with security in future revenue and spent that money (and the mentioned future revenue; now past and present revenue) to invest heavily in infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads and etc). Also they offered public scholarships and decent student loans to everyone with the grades to get into a University; as a highly educated population was, and is, seen as beneficial to Norwegian society.

Norway, as the other nations of Scandinavia (to a varying degree); are Social democracies [wikipedia.org] (as in Socialist Democracies); which is held, at least by the center->left side of politics (and to be fair some on the right in Norway are to the left of those on the left in nations like the US) as the reason for our high standard of living up to this point.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

Narpak (961733) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012816)

Forgot to add that Norway is today a so called mixed economical system [wikipedia.org] as we use democratic reforms and reason to mix socialistic and capitalistic ideas to achieve balance.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013594)

Tho lately it seems reason is heading out the door, thanks to at least one political party importing their style from USA...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014104)

Well - it's better than the one importing their style from good, old USSR, which actually has got something to say

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014168)

if your referring to the workers party (arbeiderpartiet) its far from worker focused these days, what with a doctor and a economist being the last couple of party leaders.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

Logopop (234246) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013060)

Today, though, public spending in Norway is a bit out of control, while revenue from oil and gas is likely to dwindle over the next decades. Unless, og course, we do as we have already started - to invest heavily in oil and gas exploration in poorer countries where the resources are not nationalized to the benefit of the people. The system is rapidly getting less sustainable. Add to this the ethical side of basing your welfare on having to supply massive amounts of CO2 to the atmosphere. It's a great place to live right now, but I am not sure about the long term prospects...
Ant then, of course, there is the beer prices!

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013190)

Us Norwegians really come out in full on slashdot whenever we're mentioned, don't we.

Anyway, we have to realize that much of our "success" has been pure luck, in the form of the above mentioned oil. I for one am not so sure how well our social democracy will fare once the oil runs out. It's a fantastic place to live while it lasts, but when it ends there's no substantial source of income to replace it with.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013234)

The danes/swedes don't have oil, and they are doing fine (at least comparing to other countries, maybe not as good as before)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013336)

And their land and economy is also different. Even if its all throw in "Scandinavia", the countries are still quite different, especially on economy.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (3, Informative)

Mascot (120795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013198)

It should be added, that since then we have barely spent any money on roads (cars are evil, we should all be waiting for trains that never run instead).

Which means we're juddering along on roads with 1960s standards much of the time.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (4, Informative)

C4st13v4n14 (1001121) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013084)

Hi, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things about Norway here. I've done this before, you can see a rather lengthy post about Norway here [slashdot.org] . I hope you find it useful in your immigration plans or at least interesting. I wrote uncommon sense when I posted the article because Norway has the habit of banning everything and making life really boring. Some things do make sense, and I really think my home country, the good old USA, could learn a lot from them. If you've been following the Norwegian news at all, you'll find that Norwegian judges and politicians try to do what they think is best for the people. They're not by any means pro-pirate, but they refuse to give into pressure from big business to make decisions that will compromise the freedom of the people. This is one thing I like about my new home.

I moved to Norway a little more than two years ago. I'm a doctor here, working as a GP/family doctor, I'm originally from the United States. I meet hundreds of Norwegians every week, a new one about every 20 minutes for 9-10 hours a day, so I feel if there's one thing I can comment on, it's the people. In submitting the article, I called it uncommon sense. This is because Norway generally bans everything and brainwashes its people to become suspicious little watch dogs. The fines are so stiff that it scares people into even trying something new or foreign. Take driving, for instance, they are so afraid of going over the speed limit that they drive under it. Norwegian speed limits are notoriously low for the conditions. A straight divided highway in the middle of nowhere will have a speed limit of 80 kph (about 49 mph) and people will drive 70. It drives me insane, especially because I've just switched jobs and have to commute 130 km a day. Turns a 30 min drive into almost an hour. In areas where it's safe and legal to pass, people freak out and call the police because it's something people don't really have the balls to do. I've gotten pulled over a few times for "impolite driving". I know, it sounds ridiculous.

Norway is quite isolated both geographically and socially. This has created a national suspicious and xenophobic attitude towards foreigners and new things. They were also in "unions" with Denmark and Sweden for hundreds of years, which is why they are very nationalistic and haven't joined the European Union. Up until around the 1970s, which is when they found oil, they were little more than farmers without any higher education or purpose. There weren't even roads connecting all the different parts of Norway until the mid 20th century, which is why more than 100 dialects of the Norwegian language survive until today and make learning the Norwegian language difficult. They didn't know a thing about oil so they enlisted an American company to help them find the reserves under the sea and develop the industry. Now they're the richest country in the world. They've avoided the mistakes of other countries and invested the money. Now they're the richest country in the world in terms of money in the bank. They invested a lot of money in socialism, which is why Norwegians don't really worry about anything and have a pretty relaxed attitude towards everything because they're always taken care of.

Health care is also something I can comment on due to my profession, and I believe I've done so here [slashdot.org] .

Norwegian women are typically not hot. They also suffer from what I call Norway's form of "Westernism". Many of them don't really watch their weight or what they eat. The hot ones know they're hot. Contemporary Norwegian women have also a peculiar trait I'd never seen before moving here, they are much stronger than the Norwegian men and have most of the power in a relationship. This isn't true of the older generation. I lived in Eastern Europe for several years between the US and Norway and those women are the hottest in the world, bar none. Do not come to Norway for the women!

The food? Typical Norwegian food is poisonous, but if you can cook or have an Eastern European partner who knows what she's doing, the food you buy in the supermarkets is great. Especially the fish. But it's damn expensive. A kilo of good beef or chicken is up in the $50 range.

I think that's about all I can think of to comment on right now. If I think of something else, I'll write more later.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway MOD UP! (1)

SpzToid (869795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013098)

Seriously, this is enlightenment from the Norwegian fjords!

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway MOD UP! (2)

amorsen (7485) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013218)

Not least about the author...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway MOD UP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013492)

Not least about the author...

^^^ This. Especially the comments about women.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway MOD UP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013470)

Seriously, this is enlightenment from the Norwegian fjords!

It is? I live in Norway (have also lived in UK and been travelling quite a lot around) and was hard pressed to find anything I could recognize or agree with. If he had blanked out which country he was describing I would have given up on guessing before guessing Norway. Which is fascinating.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013222)

It sounds like you live somewhere out in the sticks and have not been able to fit in. You almost sound a little bitter.

I have lived in Oslo for the past ten years and what you are describing is unfamiliar to me. It's like I should move to Arkansas and write a generalization of the US based on my experiences there.

Specifically;
- The women are often very hot and generally take good care of themselves. But they can be quite stuck up and demanding.
- It is not true that they were just uneducated farmers before the oil. They had one of the worlds largest fleets long before that.
- It is true that the prices are high, but not compared to their income. Their PPP is one of the highest in the world.
- Most people dont want the EU because the country is so wealthy there is very little the EU can offer. I dont think Xenophoby comes into it
- "They invested a lot of money in socialism" .. What does that even mean? Are you talking about the welfare state?
- "This is because Norway generally bans everything and brainwashes its people to become suspicious little watch dogs." - I cant think what you mean with this. Norwat is pretty liberal compared to the country you come from. (Except for alcohol and speed limits)

Mod parent down

Complementary info - MOD UP TOO (1)

arielCo (995647) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013260)

Please mod this up TOO - it looks that (as usual) there is room in a whole country for more than one way of life, and this one is as worthy of being known as the one that got posted first. Together they're really useful - thanks.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (4, Interesting)

C4st13v4n14 (1001121) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013712)

It's interesting to me that every single person I've ever met in Norway who lives in Oslo regards the rest of Norway as "the sticks". I have lived in three different parts of Norway, Oslo being one of them. I'm from a large city and Oslo was more like a village than city. I didn't even know how to describe it before a Norwegian called it that. Oslo is okay, there are things happening there and interesting people, there are good restaurants, shops, bars, clubs, cinemas. People outside of Oslo tell me "Oslo is not Norway" whilst people from Oslo tell me "Norway is Oslo". It's all your point of view. I'm reporting on my experiences alone. I have quite a few friends here, but they're all foreigners. I am not intellectually stimulated by Norwegians at the least. The conversations doctors have at lunch revolve around one or two topics. At this time of year, it's cross country skiing. I work with four other doctors in a practice and all we can talk about at lunch is that or swineflu. It was the same when I was working at a major hospital.

The women, in perfect honesty, beat out most American women almost every single time. But I've travelled extensively and I have lived in many places, not just here and in Eastern Europe. The women here pale in comparison to most other European women. Take another country I've lived in, a small one called Iceland. The people there are spectacular. I love them to death. The women? Absolutely fabulous. They refer to Norwegian women as "burger butts". They are a very open and warm people who speak English very well. I felt very accepted there. The bad? Well, they're broke for one. Also, it's impossible to get a job there.

One pet peeve of mine here in Norway is that about 90% of Norwegians don't even try to pronounce my typical English name correctly. When I introduce myself, many of them look down and say "ja vel" (translation: um, okay). It often seems like a put down a lot of the time because many people I have daily dealings with repeatedly mispronounce it. Please. It's a very easy name to pronounce. I've been told that the reason for this is that Norwegians don't like to make mistakes, so they won't try to pronounce my name right for fear of that. When I take a patient into my office for a consultation, about 50% react in the stereotypical xenophobic way when I shake their hands and introduce myself as their doctor and tell them my name. About 30% are embarrassed and try to say it. 10% are just happy I'm there and enthusiastic about getting seen. 10% get it right and become interested in me as a person and ask me where I'm from. I'm of course not here to be asked where I'm from, but it's nice once in a while when someone takes an interest in you. That's a major issue in this culture. I haven't figured out if it's egotism or what, but no one seems interested in each other. I feel like I have good contact with and form a bond with a very small percentage of my patients. There's a good book that describes the people here exactly. I read it in German, the title was Pferden stehlen (Stealing Horses). It might be that in English. Anyway, at one point in the story it's summer and a guy moves into a house out in the country. He looks out his window and sees his neighbour's house and says to himself "hmmm, I think I'll drop by and say hello after Christmas." Haha. To me, that's unbelievable. It takes people here a very long time to warm up to you and people are very happy to stay in the same job in the same place for 30 years. It's almost admired. Someone like me who likes to see the world, experience different cultures, and meet different people are seen with suspicion. I think that having an understand or at least experience with many different cultures is an asset. People here don't see it like that. Since people here travel very little aside from countries like Turkey, Greece, and Spain, they really have nothing to talk about with me.

The other thing that gets me about this first 50% of people who see me with suspicion or look down on me is that no matter what I do, they will always think that they're better than me and I will never be accepted. It was my mission when I first landed here to learn to write and speak perfect Norwegian. Everyone tells me that I write absolutely perfectly without any signs of mistakes. Spoken Norwegian is very tonal and accent oriented. Several words can be confused if you put the accent on the wrong part of the word. Many words are almost sung. So I will always have an accent, though it is not the typical American accent, and for that this first 50% will never accept me. Otherwise, no matter who you are or what colour you are, as long as you speak without an accent, you will be regarded as equal. I have a problem with that. Sure, I don't like sitting and listen to a Russian speak broken English trying to get a point across more than anyone else. It's annoying. But my Norwegian is not like that so I don't understand. I've given up caring about those people think, but it was bewildering when I first came here. I figured the society would be very open to foreign workers because they seriously need them. I also thought because they don't get much exposure to the outside world, that they would be interesting in us foreigners. I was quite wrong.

Mod me down all you want. I'm not at all bitter, I'm just reporting my own experiences as a traveller who has been to many different places. Like any country, there are good things and bad things here and you have to weigh those before making a decision to immigrate. I just wish someone had told me how it really was because everything you read about this country in the news is sweet chocolate-covered goodness. I also know that it is not only me who feels this way. All of the foreigners I've met here have the same things to say about it, especially my American countrymen. My experiences are actually much better than quite a few people I know. I have a few friends from Croatia and they get shit on. Constantly. One is a doctor and the other is a dentist. What they have gone through here is horrifying. I won't go into it because it makes me depressed and upset.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (2, Informative)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014152)

I'm sorry, but you're not describing the Norway I live in. I work with a lot of foreign people from all over the world, and their opinion is quite the opposite of what you're saying.

The only part you got correct is the fear of EU, which is mostly just people that doesn't know what they're arguing against.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30014352)

"The other thing that gets me about this first 50% of people who see me with suspicion or look down on me is that no matter what I do, they will always think that they're better than me and I will never be accepted."

"10% get it right and become interested in me as a person and ask me where I'm from. I'm of course not here to be asked where I'm from, but it's nice once in a while when someone takes an interest in you. That's a major issue in this culture. I haven't figured out if it's egotism or what, but no one seems interested in each other."

Welcome to interacting with people who have some wealth. As someone stateside who's also a medical professional, I started out in the sticks and moved to an very upscale community (Bernie Madoff wealth) about 4 years ago. My dealings are nearly identical to those you're describing.

I'm reminded everyday, wealth is the only judge of success in the US that people recognise any more. The wealthy see themselves as winners of the highest kind. Anyone else is beneath them, especially if they have to work for a living. To be fair, a majority of the ones I see did nothing but outlive wealthy parents, or in the case of most of the women, spread their legs for men who inherited wealth.
There are exceptions to every rule, but the vast majority I deal with on a daily basis fit this model.

When two or more of these people are in the same place, they do one of two things... They'll either schmooze with each other until they go their separate ways and then talk shit about the other to me, or ignore each others existence completely.

I think watching how the other half lives for the past few years has made me cynical and jaded about the future of this country. It astounds me how inhumane humanity has become at what it considers its "top". It also angers me that I have no power to change it.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30014446)

I lived in Oslo working as an IT specialist for the past 3 years and, for one, agree with absolutely everything you wrote about the people, culture, food and attitude. Only blind norwegians (or foreigners who had nothing in life before getting there) can't spot the huge controlled bubble they live in. And for the record, I've finally just left the country, because I couldn't stand the people, weather, food and controlled environment anymore. For the record, I truly love Norway, seriously. But I also happen to truly hate it (the people and food, especially). Three years and I don't have a single norwegian friend, it's unbelievable. You're also right about women. They not only have horrific bodies in the vast majority of cases, they also tend to "wear the trousers". Not to mention their lack of culture/topics to speak about besides fashion. Eastern and southern european women are so much more beautiful and interesting. Regarding the wages, norwegians should understand once and for all that the net salaries are not that high whatsoever when you take off the taxable part. As a senior engineer, I was getting a perfectly ordinary salary, and yes, it pissed me off that the guy working at MacDonalds wasn't earning that much less than me. Not to mention that norwegians always earn more than me, sometimes with less education and professional experience. Or the drug addicts that get all they need from the government while I have to work really hard and pay my obscene taxes. Apartments, supermarkets and social life suck up all your money in Norway. I don't know a single young norwegian who spares money at the end of the month. And if there is some left, it all goes to beer and frozen pizza. The health system is not the holy grail they like to shout about. I always had to pay everytime I went to the GP or the hospital. Not that much of an amount of money, but hell, I even had to pay NOK 650 for a pair of cruches I used for a few days, so why do I pay such high taxes? Anyway, I'm out of that weird society now, and despite having a very strong emotional relation with the country, I also like to make things clear and tell my experience, which is exactly the same of all my foreign friends, so please don't come to /. and say that the above user is making things up, just because you're norwegian or married to one, or were really lucky in the country. I don't know a single friend in Oslo who's happy about it, and they come from more than 20 countries. But whatever, skål! Go to Norway and experience it for yourself. Make sure you spend at least 2 years there to get to know how the system works and controls the people.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

Omestes (471991) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014834)

When I take a patient into my office for a consultation, about 50% react in the stereotypical xenophobic way when I shake their hands and introduce myself as their doctor and tell them my name. About 30% are embarrassed and try to say it. 10% are just happy I'm there and enthusiastic about getting seen. 10% get it right and become interested in me as a person and ask me where I'm from. I'm of course not here to be asked where I'm from, but it's nice once in a while when someone takes an interest in you.

You realize your describing much of the world. Here in the US (or at least my neck of it), these numbers would be even worse. How many Americans care to pronounce the "strange" names of foreigners correctly? How many people in the US actually care about anyone outside of immediate friends and family? People are people.

How many people in America, when finding out that their GP is Indian (or such), roll their eye, and aren't happy?

Hell, I live in Arizona, a state with a large Mexican population, and pretty deep Mexican cultural roots, and how many people care to pronounce such every-day words like "saguaro" or "coyote" correctly?

Also, I'm sorry the women aren't lithe and submissive enough for your tastes. This hardly says anything about the country that matters, except you don't like the women. You do realize that this makes you sound a bit... vapid and shallow... right? It really doesn't help people take anything your saying seriously. Some people don't like their women submissive, and some people find harping at a whole nation because some of their women have "big butts" rather silly.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (3, Informative)

Sheen (1180801) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013230)

I do not know where in norway you live, but what you describe...doesnt sound like the same country i live in, here in western norway ( bergen ) people push the speedlimit, average speed on a 80 kph highway is about 85, police wont bother you until you're over 90-95. The same city in question, has historicly been a major trading city, even before americas was discovered ( Hanseatic League 1200 AD->), and is still one of the most visited ports in the world, in trade and in tourism. There has also been allot of cultural trade ever since the vikings headed over to England to have some fun. The food. You can basicly get the exact same food here, that you can get in every other european country, and the food is -cheaper- in norway, then in any other country in europe, if you compare it with the wages we get here. ( you make about 23us$ an hour working at Mcdonalds.) So offcourse food has to be expencive, people who work at slaughterhouses and shops needs to get payed too. If you dont like that you can make 60 000 us$ a year working at McDonalds, while you as a MD make about 100 000us$ a year , too bad, move back to US where there are more social differences, and therefore, crime. Cant even understand why you would live here, if it bothers you that much.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013770)

We are more "men of the sea" than farmers (our ancestors had to do a little of everything). Prices are high, but so are the salaries. Unlike in the U.S and eastern/southern europe, the overwhelming majority enjoy a high standard of life, and the state will provide for those who can't take care of themselves. I am on disability and make about $32k a year.

It's true that we are xenophobic, though. I think it's because we've been isolated up here for so long. Before the oil, there was no reason to come here other than the fjords and the fish. Norway is still a very homogenic society, but that is obviously changing now (slashdotted!)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013986)

Take driving, for instance, they are so afraid of going over the speed limit that they drive under it.

It's a speed limit, isn't it? Isn't it common sense to drive below a limit? I've lived for many years in a country where drivers are too often killers. The courts are lenient towards drivers that cause accidents. Drivers drive too fast too often, but nothing changes.

Norway sounds like heaven, from your description. The fact that you think breaking the law by driving over the limit is "common sense", speaks volumes about yourself.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30014010)

This is mostly a test to see if this gets deleted. It seems my previous informative post very conveniently disappeared. That could not happen in Norway, and is a perfect example of the difference between Norway and other countries. Absolute fair play and equality are the highest virtues here. We are typically innocent and idealistic, and not so twisted and corrupted by modern urban life. This of course gets us in trouble with more streetsmart foreigners, who tend to look down on us.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30014100)

I rest my case.

And fuck you too.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013204)

because they have fuck all software or movie or TV export industry and no major popular music labels, so they don't see the harm in fucking-over all the people working in those industries across the world.

hooray for stealing other peoples work!!!!!!!1111ONEONEONE

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (3, Interesting)

Khenke (710763) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013648)

I'm from Sweden and have on and off for 20 years been thinking of moving to Norway
A move for me would be easy, as we are close neighbors and a lot like each others. I understand them speaking and they me (almost like US and UK english).

Why have I been thinking about a move?
Several reasons.
Easier to get a job than i Sweden (I been in IT for my whole life) is one reason.
They actually go in the right direction in the development of their country. Sweden implements more and more stupid laws, so soon we have zero freedom here.
The people a very nice and pleasant, like the northern Sweden.
It's really expensive in Norway, but the salary are higher. It's a chock for us in Sweden to have foreigners come here and buy cheep, as we tend to go to Denmark or Germany for our shopping (not only alcohol).

For me Norway is what Sweden SHOULD be. We are going down in the top list of most educated, best welfare, healthcare and so on while they go the other way. They have always been our "small" brother and they have been looking up to us, but that have changed and we are now looking up to them.
Our politicians are almost as corrupt as in the US, when they in Norway somehow has been able to resist getting sick with power.

If only illegal file sharing was my only concern, there a cheep 100% secure solutions for $10/month that fixes that for me. But I'm soon living in something worse than a police state, a corporation state where Hollywood companies have more rights that I do.
I like my Fon hotspot, but soon I risk going to jail for what others do on it. Soon the state will know where I am 100% of the time (tracking my credit card, mobile phone, SMS, email and so on), and soon there after all the Hollywood companies will have the same information. One of our courts has already broken our constitution with no reprimand what so ever (forcing ISP to dissconnect the Pirate Bay site is not legal in Sweden due to Mere Conduit).

We in the western world are going for a second Dark Ages very fast, but most people are blind to what are happening or just don't care. I guess that in 20 years china will have to take on our political refugees...
One of the few country's resisting is Norway, that is the reason I'm very much thinking about moving there now. And that almost every Norwegian girl I have met has been lovely and sweet don't make it worse.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

Khenke (710763) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013710)

I can tell a little story of a Norwegian girl I once meet.

I had just started studying Computer Engineering in Linköping in Sweden when I meet a very lovely girl from Trondheim in Norway visiting a party over the weekend.
To say the least I was a happy geek for 36 hours and doing non-geek stuff (illegally in public and legally in every other place we could find). ;)

I/we fell in love but after she left I decided to focus on my studies instead of a girlfriend (I got her address and phone number) in another country. Some time later I got a mail (you know the old kind based on a dead tree) addressed to the university with my first name and a picture on it (she had a camera) with me, drunk as a skunk. It must have been a fun travel around the university people before they found out it was for me. :)

If I have one regret in my life it was to ignore my feelings and focus on my studies instead, who know, I might have been Norwegian now if not...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014160)

i would wait some years, as right now the EØS agreement with EU makes norwegian politicians introduce more and more laws based on EU decisions, even tho said agreement has a veto clause.

the reason for said clause not being used more is that said politicians are afraid that doing so will make EU declare the agreement void, and close the EU market for norwegian exports.

to that i would glady say "fuck 'em, lets look for other markets!", like say how a furniture brand is selling their products to chinese customers. Usually its the other way, where norwegian store shelfs are stuffed with "made in china" products.

not that i think EU would close the market access. Norwegian petroleum exports are to important, at least as long as russia tries to use theirs as political leverage...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway (1)

Dreadrik (1651967) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013718)

As a swede, I must say they're not :-), but their non EU membership probably makes these rulings easier.

OO (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30012558)

Where's the link to send a donation to the judge?

Re:OO (3, Insightful)

chibiace (898665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012586)

404 link not found.
no wonder we won ;)
id like to know how man judges are bribed to "fight" "piracy".

Re:OO (4, Funny)

gzipped_tar (1151931) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012646)

Finally, we've caught the infidel who has been bribing judges in all free countries in order harm the honest, starving capitalists! It's Anonymous Coward! Someone get him NOW! Think of the music industry!!1!

Re:OO (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012954)

Think of the music industry!!1!

I have been, but apparently I'm not the Lathe of Heaven, because they're still here.

FINALLY. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30012562)

Finally someone gets it. There *is* NO direct infringement ocurring.

Pirate Bay? (5, Funny)

boudie2 (1134233) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012564)

Yesterday Pirate Bay was shut down never to return.
Today they're back up.
If there's one thing to admire about Pirates, it's
there sticktoitiveness. Yarrr!

Re:Pirate Bay? (4, Funny)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012668)

My therapist used the word "sticktoitiveness" as well, mostly referencing my lack of it. There was a point to this post, but it has eluded the author. Oh look, a kitty!

Re:Pirate Bay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30012676)

My therapist used the word "sticktoitiveness" as well, mostly referencing my lack of it. There was a point to this post, but it has eluded the author. Oh look, a kitty!

antidepressants i assume. its a lot harder to be miserable when you can't remember what happen 5 minutes ago.

Re:Pirate Bay? (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012982)

That depends what happened 5 minutes ago.

Re:Pirate Bay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013012)

My therapist used the word "sticktoitiveness" as well, mostly referencing my lack of it.

Are you still seeing your therapist?

Re:Pirate Bay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30014056)

I find your lack of sticktoitiveness disturbing

Re:Pirate Bay? (3, Interesting)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012764)

The good guys always win, well not always but as a collective we pirates are holding our ground pretty darn well. Especially when you consider that we can't afford to buy any of our laws.

Re:Pirate Bay? (1)

c1t1z3nk41n3 (1112059) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013952)

Which is kind of odd considering how much money we save by not paying for entertainment...

Re:Pirate Bay? (3, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013968)

The good guys always win

This is true, although largely because the winners who win retroactively define themselves as the good guys.

Re:Pirate Bay? (1)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014030)

You don't have to buy laws if you choose not to respect them in the first place.

Re:Pirate Bay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30014142)

You're a pirate. Since when has the fact that you can't afford to buy something prevent you from taking it anyway?

Re:Pirate Bay? (1)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014538)

Ok how do we introduce a law without paying congress?

Re:Pirate Bay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30014792)

so the 'good guys' are the ones who sell millions of dollars worth of advertising on the back of giving away the work of hundreds of thousands of people for free.
These good guys are backed by an extremist right wing millionaire called carl lundstrom.

I pity anyone who considers these arrogant fascist scum as the good guys.

Good for them (3, Interesting)

Myrcutio (1006333) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012718)

Sounds like great news for everyone. A precedent that helps stand against widespread banning of websites can only be a good thing for net neutrality. Means liability for illegal actions can't be retroactively inherited.

Re:Good for them (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30012936)

Still this isn't a precedent and doesn't do much outside Norway.

Background info on Telenor (4, Interesting)

Sheen (1180801) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013064)

I would like to add some information about Telenor. Telenor is state owned, 54% of the shares belong to the people/Norwegian state. They have close to 200 million customers worldwide. So this is a big operator in the Telecom world. They have about 43 000 employees. Today, I am proud to be Norwegian.

Re:Background info on Telenor (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013672)

well it used to be 100% state owned (televerket) and the only supplier of phone services.

i would say that the state is a silent partner these days, only there to get some returns on the initial investment, rather then getting involved in the day to day running of the company.

iiNet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30013248)

I wonder how this affects the court case against Australian ISP iiNet.

Tracker down? (1)

tcoady (22541) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013274)

Re:Tracker down? (2, Informative)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013496)

The tracker hasn't worked for a few months, they switched to openbittorrent.com (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBitTorrent).

They said they wanted to separate the tracker from the website, so the tracker can't be liable (as it doesn't record the file names). Oh, and officially, no one knows who's the tracker owners :)

Re:Tracker down? (1)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013526)

The TPB's own trackers have been down since forever, and are not likely to come back up.

Just de-select the TPB's trackers in your BT client and use one of the others; all torrents listed at TPB include alternative trackers.

Or at least this is what I have heard somewhere... ;)

I don't understand ? (3, Insightful)

daveime (1253762) | more than 4 years ago | (#30013786)

What happened to the "safe harbour" provisions for ISPs ?

It's okay to publish Scientology bullshit and bomb plans on the net, but woe betide any ISP who "assists in sharing" an mp3 ?

Re:I don't understand ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30014328)

"Safe Harbor" is part of the US DMCA. This case was a bit outside US jurisdiction.

Re:I don't understand ? (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 4 years ago | (#30014768)

did you not get the memo that the internet

  • is

US jurisdiction? ;)

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