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Microsoft Disconnects Modded Xbox Users

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the sure-it's-in-the-tos-somewhere dept.

XBox (Games) 738

S-4'N3 writes "The BBC reports that Microsoft has disconnected approximately 600,000 Xbox users from Xbox Live because the devices they are using have been modified, either with software or with new chips, to play pirated games. 'Microsoft confirmed that it had banned a "small percentage" of the 20 million Xbox Live users worldwide. Microsoft said that modifying an Xbox 360 console 'violates' the service's 'terms of use' and would result in a player being disconnected.'"

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738 comments

360 (5, Interesting)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063324)

Apparently some people have gone as far as calling death threats [sankakucomplex.com] to a "Director of Policy and Enforcement for Xbox LIVE" and his wife (theres also irc logs where he came to say it on #360banned)

There has been modded xbox360 bans before too, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to people when they do get banned. And at least it keeps the cheaters off games.

No Cheating (5, Insightful)

Hardhead_7 (987030) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063416)

The great thing about online console play (the only thing, really, that it has over PCs) is their closed nature. It's much, much harder to cheat on a console than on a PC game. Don't get me wrong. I fully support their right to mod their own hardware. But I don't want to play them online.

Re:No Cheating (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063468)

uhh, no it doesn't

Re:No Cheating (5, Funny)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063638)

That phrase doesn't make grammatical sense in reply to any single sentence in that post. What doesn't what do?

Re:No Cheating (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063784)

learn to read, faggot.

Re:No Cheating (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063842)

No

Re:No Cheating (4, Funny)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063902)

The great thing about online console play (the only thing, really, that it has over PCs) is their closed nature.

The correct anti-response would be: no it isn't.

It's much, much harder to cheat on a console than on a PC game.

The correct anti-response would be: no it isn't.

Don't get me wrong.

The correct anti-response would be: ...No I will?

I fully support their right to mod their own hardware.

The correct anti-response would be: ....No you don't?

But I don't want to play them online.

The correct anti-response would be: I do

Re:No Cheating (2, Informative)

Slashdot Suxxors (1207082) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063592)

The modding they're talking about in TFA is direct backups of games. There are no hacks in the actual gameplay.

Re:No Cheating (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063696)

But 5 years from now, when the publisher decides you should have upgraded to the latest incarnation of a game, the multi-player servers for the console will be gone. With PC games, I can play Quake or Quake II or Unreal today because of the community-run servers.

I would rather have the occasional cheater than no online community for the particular game in a few years.

Giving the game publisher the ability to kill online play is a BAD bad idea.

Re:No Cheating (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063800)

Care to tell me how I can play FF XI or WoW without company servers?

Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (0, Flamebait)

mollog (841386) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063742)

Did Microsoft really think this through? The people who mod Xboxes are their best customers. They are the enthusiasts who care enough to learn more about the console.

I doubt that this effort will even result in an increase in revenues that will be enough to pay for the enforcement. There must be better ways to improve profitability.

Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (5, Insightful)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063868)

Did Microsoft really think this through? The people who mod Xboxes are their best customers. They are the enthusiasts who care enough to learn more about the console.

99.9% of them are people who want to play free games, or cheat on games. People who cheat on games ruin the experience for everybody else. Most modded Xboxes were modded by some guy at a games store, anyway, and that guy charged for it, it's not like these guys went through the effort of modding it themselves... they just paid some goon so they could steal games.

The remaining 0.1%, yes, actually just wants to write software for it. Slashdot pretends this group is the larger percentage, but Slashdot is wrong about a good many things.

Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (5, Insightful)

sarahbau (692647) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063878)

You really think so? The "backups" that most people use in their modded XBoxes are backups from some guy on a torrent site who himself probably only rented the game. How are these people their best customers? They probably play more games and have higher gamer scores, and might even pay for XBox Live Gold, but MS still isn't making as much from them as someone who buys only a few games a year.

Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (3, Insightful)

e4g4 (533831) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063906)

Cheaters are not their concern (at least, it certainly doesn't seem to be). Microsoft's best customers are not so much the people that buy their consoles - it's the people that buy games for their consoles. The argument here is that people are modding their xboxes to sidestep Microsoft's DRM protection in order to play "backup" games. The people doing this are not particularly interested in creatively modding their xbox so much as being able to (via someone else's creative work) download torrented disc images, burn them to dvd, and play them on their xboxes.

The only problem with this approach is that some (undoubtedly small) percentage of users who are in fact doing creative things by modding their xbox could also fall victim to being a false positive from whatever method Microsoft is using to identify the modders.

Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (-1, Troll)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063940)

They say small percent but if the #'s in the summary are accurate we're talking about 3% of their userbase. And as you said, not just any 3% - probably the 3% near the top.

If this had happened to me, I'd demand a refund on my XboxLive subscription, as well as any games I downloaded which are not unplayable due to the disconnection.

If Microsoft refused then I'd take steps to recover my money by: (1) Buying microsoft product equal to whatever they stole from me (say $100). (2) Claiming non-receipt in the mail. (3) Filing chargeback.

Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (2, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063948)

The people who mod Xboxes are their best customers. They are the enthusiasts who care enough to learn more about the console.

I really cannot see how they are Microsoft's best customers. How does it improve Microsoft's or game publishers revenue when exactly these people almost never buy games. Considering theres no homebrew scene in Xbox360, the sole reason people get their consoles modded is to play copies.

I doubt that this effort will even result in an increase in revenues that will be enough to pay for the enforcement. There must be better ways to improve profitability.

It is not only that for Microsoft. They also have to care for their game developers, who are obviously going to bitch if theres rampant piracy going on and MS isn't doing anything for it. When there's the constant fear that your console could get banned from online play at any time, people begin to think if its just wiser to get the games they like and not bother with it. Unlike PC's, consoles are just supposed to work, and complicating things takes that aspect off. Yeah it wont stop piracy completely, but it will lower it.

Re:360 (5, Funny)

MeatBag PussRocket (1475317) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063434)

does this make it an "Ex-Box"?

thank you thank you... i'm here all week.

Re:360 (1)

thisnamestoolong (1584383) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063514)

BOOO!!!!

Re:360 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063604)

*throws a glowing red ring of light at you*

ouch (1)

jDeepbeep (913892) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063672)

That hit me where the pun don't shine. Ouch.

Re:360 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063836)

It makes it an Ex-X-Box. The fun will start if they reconnect them, making them Ex-Ex-X-boxes. XXX-boxes FTW!

Re:360 (1)

dtzitz (937838) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063968)

Tip your waiter.

Re:360 (2, Interesting)

coolgeek (140561) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063454)

From that same thread, the director dude out there is quoted there as saying it's no problem to move your hard drive to an unbanned 360 box. It would appear this is a ploy by Microsoft to sell more 360's.

[00:54] HDD from banned to unbanned is ok, but you might have to reformat to get full access to licenses
[00:54] etc

Why (4, Insightful)

frovingslosh (582462) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063820)

Why would they want to sell more 360s? Don't they still lose money on each one? My understanding was that they did, but made it up on the games and such. Buying an extra 360 isn't going to cause a user to buy more copies of the game, so why would they be trying to encourage more 360 sales that cut into their bottom line?

Re:360 (4, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063496)

Which is why so many now mod the controller not the console. It has become very popular to mod the controllers for turbo fire and the like. The reason this sort of thing works is because of the brain dead console development expectations, say it with me "trusting the client is never right".

More games need to enforce maximum rates of fire and the like.

Re:360 (1)

RDW (41497) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063808)

'Apparently some people have gone as far as calling death threats to a "Director of Policy and Enforcement for Xbox LIVE" and his wife'

This guy seems pretty annoyed, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkDxF2kn1I [youtube.com]

I hope he doesn't do anything silly.

Re:360 (2, Insightful)

v1 (525388) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063916)

And at least it keeps the cheaters off games.

Not really. All it does is keep the bad cheaters off the games. The good cheaters don't get caught by these sweeps.

And that's just what xbox live needs, darwinism at work refining a better crowd of cheaters.

The checks done by live are less sophisticated than say, punkbuster on the PCs. And all that accomplished was to raise the stakes and make the cheaters go into business selling the "undetectable" cheats and taunting those like Activision.

Re:360 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063944)

So I WAS paying for Xbox Live and using is twice a month or so. NOW I'm not paying for that anymore. Also I don't have to worry about checking games before I burn them now.

Great Move MS. You fired a customer. Genius.

Ha ha! (0, Troll)

xtracto (837672) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063328)

N-T

And of course... (4, Informative)

xtracto (837672) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063350)

By "disconnecting" it means banning from playing in the "live" online network (which you must pay to play anyway).

It is still possible to play offline games with banned xboxs

Re:And of course... (3, Informative)

oddRaisin (139439) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063546)

Very carefully, though, they still keep your xbox live account active and charge you the subscription fee.

For those who want to cancel, check out http://www.xbox.com/accounts [xbox.com] , change your subscription by clicking the link after subscription renewal (the link says "ON"). Then continue to click through the 5 or 6 pages detailing all the reasons you should stay. Click "Next" through all of that, and you're set.

Re:And of course... (4, Interesting)

pens (184563) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063598)

Yes, but with this recent ban wave, Microsoft crippled some non-XBL capabilities. For example, you can't install games to your local hard drive anymore

Re:And of course... (1)

nobodyman (90587) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063640)

Possibly, if we're talking about the "gold" XBox Live service, since you can't (to my knowledge) play multiplayer games with the "silver" level service. I assume this is the case, but the article doesn't break it down.

But if we're talking about 600k "silver" users, I can't imagine that these users are all that disappointed seeing as how they aren't losing that much functionality.

Disconnected? (1)

ciaohound (118419) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063364)

I think the correct term is "de-resed." And it should be pronounced using the best possible David Warner snear.

Good riddance to rubbish (-1, Troll)

Disgruntled Goats (1635745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063366)

Waaaaaaaaaaaaah! I broke the rules that I agreed to before using the service and then I got banned just a the user agreement said. Oh woe is me!!!!

Or in my case (2, Interesting)

phorm (591458) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063550)

Bought a 3rd-party X-box over 6 months ago. I got a second when it RROD'ed, and noticed that the other couldn't play some games that my original could. I'm guessing that the original has a non-original DVD drive, and that those games are well-silkscreened copies, as they never did come with a case the way the Halo game had when I got the system...

So I wonder if when I turn that sucker on now (it's been solder-reballed which fixed the RROD) whether it will be permabanned from XBL. Mind you the only time I really log on to XBL is when playing video files etc, because it appears for some rather idiotic reason it tied the Codec downloads to your account rather than an overall system update. I suppose I'll just have to run it unplugged from the network.

Overall I wouldn't have a problem with not using the machine on XBL (I don't really do so anyways), but the fact that updates/codecs/etc are tied in there makes it a pain in the ass.

Good: All The More Reason To (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063368)

create a third-party XBox Live Server serving refreshingly
GNU GPL games to XBox.

Yours In Novy Urengoy,
K. Trout

I can't believe I'm saying this (5, Insightful)

killmenow (184444) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063370)

Listen, I hate Microsoft. I think the people who run Microsoft are criminals. I cannot for the life of me believe I'm about to say this:

You buy an XBox 360, you can do whatever you want with it. Mod it to your heart's content.

But the Live network belongs to Microsoft. They have a right to disconnect you if they want.

Now excuse me while I find someone to fulfill my user name.

Re:I can't believe I'm saying this (4, Informative)

pens (184563) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063502)

I don't believe most of the modding community is bothered by the ban from XBL. But this recent ban wave also cripples some offline capabilities as well. For example, if you've been banned you can't install games to your local hard drive anymore.

Re:I can't believe I'm saying this (1)

ViViDboarder (1473973) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063642)

You mean because they are banned entirely from Xbox Live? Yea, this is still part of their network. I modded my Xbox 360 because it was already overheating and having some pretty bad issues. I actually bought a second one on Ebay to use unmodded for Xbox Live. You shouldn't be allowed to play illegally obtained games online. M$ doesn't want you on their network they have every right to kick you off. The nice thing is that they don't ban your Live account. They ban the CONSOLE. This is why it's been stated that you can just move your HDD to a different console and it'll work fine. If you have 2 consoles you can just swap your HDD back and forth and be just fine.

Re:I can't believe I'm saying this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063768)

Stop yelling you retard.

Re:I can't believe I'm saying this (2, Interesting)

jtownatpunk.net (245670) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063884)

Yeah, Microsoft has such an awesome track record when it comes to detecting fraud and tampering. I had to manually remove the Office Genuine Advantage system from 4 workstations because it flagged them as non-genuine. The other 50 or so passed inspection just fine. I could find no common thread among those machines that would explain it. They're all the same model computer prepped and rolled out to the floor in the same manner as the other 50 in the batch. I've also had WGA flag systems as non-genuine after upgrading from 2k to XP. Those I was able to isolate to the upgrade process because only upgraded machines got flagged and every upgraded machine got flagged. A clean install cleared it right up.

So, in conclusion, I predict that a significant number of totally innocent people are going to be screwed by this

Good (4, Funny)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063408)

This should mean I'll never lose to some 12 year old in Halo or CoD again, cause I'm sure they were all modding. Yep, that's definitely it.

"a small percentage" (5, Informative)

weirdcrashingnoises (1151951) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063412)

600,000 of 20,000,000

there are some who would call this "three percent"

Re:"a small percentage" (4, Informative)

Disgruntled Goats (1635745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063430)

3% is a pretty small percentage.

Re:"a small percentage" (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063552)

The percentage Blood Alcohol Content needed to get you thrown in jail for a DUI is POINT 1 percent; A tenth of a percent. This is 30 times higher, and nearly 1/30th of their users. I'd say 3% is a pretty big percentage.

Re:"a small percentage" (1)

Disgruntled Goats (1635745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063578)

Nice non sequitur.

Re:"a small percentage" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063616)

Sounds like someone needs a quality session in the Total Perspective Vortex.

Re:"a small percentage" (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063568)

Ha You Dumb ^otherf>cker u can tack on as many Adjectives as you would like but it remains Simply a number that is Easily calculated and Displayed

Re:"a small percentage" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063508)

and there are some who call 3 percent "a small percentage"

As a corperate customer told me yesterday... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063714)

... a small percent of a large number is still a large number.

Re:"a small percentage" (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063728)

What I find funny is on another forum I was reading about this early today, the very first reply was "600,000 out of 20 mil! thats a HUGE PERCENTAGE." Lol.

Irritated? (0, Offtopic)

smitty777 (1612557) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063472)

According to Starfleet medical research, Borg implants can cause severe skin irritations. Perhaps you'd like an analgesic cream?

Funny First Hand Account (5, Interesting)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063474)

I liked the first hand account one gamer offered the BBC [bbc.co.uk] . His justification for modding is that the games are too expensive.

I took it into a shop [the Xbox], there was a guy back there and I asked him and he did it for me [chipped it]. He charged £75 to get it chipped but at the end of the day I said to myself I'll pay £75 to get it chipped, after two games I've paid the money back.

I've probably saved about £600 and I've copied roughly 30 or 40 games. A lot of them I've downloaded or I've taken off friends that have downloaded themselves.

So at what point do you put two and two together and realize that getting kicked off playing online is not such a bad thing if you've saved £600? Is there really any wonder why XBox Live wants to deny you service? How exactly do you maintain outrage at being banned?

His sob story was going pretty good until he got up to those last paragraphs of admission and even saying he'd never do it again (implying he is wrong).

Another loser from the entitlement generation (1, Insightful)

Disgruntled Goats (1635745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063554)

I think it's more funny how people like him think they are entitled to get any number of movies, music, games, etc for free without paying as if they are owed them. Yet, I bet if you asked these same people if it was perfectly okay for their boss to no longer pay them a salary for their work because the boss didn't feel like it, they'd be all up in a tizzy.

Re:Another loser from the entitlement generation (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063718)

I think it's more funny how people like him think they are entitled to get any number of movies, music, games, etc for free without paying as if they are owed them. Yet, I bet if you asked these same people if it was perfectly okay for their boss to no longer pay them a salary for their work because the boss didn't feel like it, they'd be all up in a tizzy.

Mmm, how was it he didn't pay? I guess he paid for the Xbox, he paid money to the guy for 'chipping' his box, and he paid for the Xbox-live service.. what you are saying was that he didn't pay enough?

Re:Another loser from the entitlement generation (3, Insightful)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063794)

what you are saying was that he didn't pay enough?

"enough" is not determined by the buyer. You don't go into a store and argue with the cashier - at least not in most western economies - that the price is too much. You either buy it or you don't.

If Microsoft decides their price is too high and people actually can't afford it and that's why their sales are going down, maybe they'll lower the prices. As it is, people can afford it, Microsoft is making money, and there is little incentive for game publishers to lower their prices.

It's like asking an IT guy to lower his price because, while I and many others can afford his service, I think it's too expensive. You know how you solve that one? You don't hire him to do the work in the first place. I guess with entertainment it's different... because we are entitled to cheap entertainment - "cheap" being defined not by what we can afford or supply/demand but by what we feel like paying - at the expense of these evil corporations...

Re:Another loser from the entitlement generation (2, Informative)

IndustrialComplex (975015) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063900)

You don't go into a store and argue with the cashier - at least not in most western economies - that the price is too much. You either buy it or you don't.

I do it all the time. I just don't expect to leave with it unless the cashier and I agree on the price and I pay it.

Re:Another loser from the entitlement generation (1)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063964)

I guess it depends on the store. I'm thinking of non-barter-able stores, not individually owned and operated stores where they are actually free to do that sort of thing (which is great, of course... no problems with that, if it's legal :)). But good point on not expecting to get the item unless you both agree, heh.

Re:Another loser from the entitlement generation (5, Informative)

Disgruntled Goats (1635745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063798)

Mmm, how was it he didn't pay?

You mean other than the part where he says he didn't buy the games and just copied them because he felt he was owed them?

guess he paid for the Xbox, he paid money to the guy for 'chipping' his box, and he paid for the Xbox-live service.. what you are saying was that he didn't pay enough?

If one wants to play a game, one has to buy it. If one can not afford to pay for the game doesn't mean you are allowed to copy it. One is not entitled to the work of another for free just because someone wants it.

Re:Another loser from the entitlement generation (1)

Deosyne (92713) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063802)

Video games are a basic human right! :)

Socialized video games... You know what? Given how many times I've had buyer's remorse over a shitty title, I might be willing to risk some loss of quality for tax-subsidized gaming. If nothing else, at least my tax dollars would start going to something that I actually give a shit about.

Re:Funny First Hand Account (1)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063634)

Hum. Out of curiosity, does the slashdot crowd think copying 30-40 games and "saving £600" is good? Wouldn't that actually be considered ... basically stealing? Maybe he couldn't afford £600 of games. I don't feel sorry for him. Not being able to afford something/something being too expensive doesn't mean you should get it illegally (and it's ok, as long as you couldn't afford it).

This is slightly OT but not completely... Microsoft is protecting their income flow by trying to keep people from getting games for free when they are supposed to pay for them. IMO, that's a good thing. Microsoft should be allowed to do that, and if someone can't afford the game ... I dunno, go get a job (or try, heh) or *gasp* go without the game for a few more months...

Re:Funny First Hand Account (2)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063750)

I'm with you, but the Slashdot zeitgeist is usually "piracy is a-ok!" The justifications vary from the mainstream, I rarely see Slashdotters use the "I couldn't afford it" excuse, they usually use the more philosophical "information wants to be free/it's useless to even try to restrict it" excuse instead.

In addition, whenever a company tries to defeat pirates in some way, there's always the smug, "those clueless newbs will never stop us!" bullcrap, even though that misses the entire point of copy protection.

Re:Funny First Hand Account (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063756)

I think it could be looked at as a good thing, this is not my view, but let me explain;

Microsoft lost nothing as he did not take a physical disc and he got 600 pounds of value. Some would say that this is a good thing as no wealth was lost and 600 pounds of wealth was created. Since he could not have paid, there was no lost sale.

I do not copy games without the copyright owners permission, I just wait until they are a reasonable price before I purchase. The used market is my primary source of games.

Re:Funny First Hand Account (1)

Disgruntled Goats (1635745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063876)

Microsoft lost nothing as he did not take a physical disc and he got 600 pounds of value. Some would say that this is a good thing as no wealth was lost and 600 pounds of wealth was created. Since he could not have paid, there was no lost sale.

They may not have lost something, but he still isn't entitled to obtain the works of other's for free just because he wants it. He isn't entitled to play those games nor do the publishers owe him to give their works to him for free. If you can't afford something, you do without it. Copying the game isn't justifiable. Games aren't a necessity of life and he isn't going to die if he isn't able to buy and play every game released for the 360.

Re:Funny First Hand Account (1)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063926)

I realize you are not taking this view, but responding to it anyway :)

Microsoft lost nothing as he did not take a physical disc and he got 600 pounds of value. Some would say that this is a good thing as no wealth was lost and 600 pounds of wealth was created. Since he could not have paid, there was no lost sale.

The only problem is, he could afford it. He spent 75 pounds to get it "chipped." That's the 12% of the price of the 30-40 games he later said he copied, so he could have at least bought 10% of those games (3-4).

My take is that people have decided they want what they want now and if there is an easy and relatively safe way to illegally obtain it - instead of paying for it or saving up and paying for it - they will do it the illegal way. Modding wasn't illegal, AFAIK, but downloading was. And yes, Microsoft lost sales; presumably this guy would have bought games if he wasn't getting them for free, as he did have money to spend on it.

The "no lost sale" argument still implies that it's okay to do something as long as you can't afford to do it. That's the part of the argument that's wrong, IMO. That and there does definitely seem to be a pervading can't-wait feeling. You (and I) wait for the game prices to go down. These kids tell us they "can't" wait and that they don't have anything else to do if they can't play the newest games. Something is wrong there...

Re:Funny First Hand Account (4, Insightful)

IndustrialComplex (975015) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063844)

Hum. Out of curiosity, does the slashdot crowd think copying 30-40 games and "saving £600" is good? Wouldn't that actually be considered ... basically stealing? Maybe he couldn't afford £600 of games. I don't feel sorry for him. Not being able to afford something/something being too expensive doesn't mean you should get it illegally (and it's ok, as long as you couldn't afford it).

I don't think it is good. I think it is terrible. It is exactly people like him who are the ones which are giving the corporations the impression that such things are the norm and therefore they feel they need to do something to stop it.

People like that piss me off because it makes my complaints (non-interoperable hardware, laws damaging freedom/privacy, few legal digital options) seem less valid because there always seems to be 'that guy' standing next to you making faces and fart noises while you attempt to engage in rationale discourse.

Re:Funny First Hand Account (1)

fredjh (1602699) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063894)

Yeah... I don't think eldavojohn was advocating stealing... quite the opposite.

I've long argued, especially when it comes to games and entertainment related media, there's absolutely NO justification in copyright infringement EVER.

On the other hand, the DMCA sucks ass. People should be able to mod their consoles and have copies of the games they've legally purchased... it'd be like a media PC storing DVDs on the hard drive for easier playback. Unless you can distinguish between those who steal and those who just want to make life easier for themselves, it's hard to call them criminals.

Re:Funny First Hand Account (4, Insightful)

IndustrialComplex (975015) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063936)

I've long argued, especially when it comes to games and entertainment related media, there's absolutely NO justification in copyright infringement EVER

When you start dealing with works that are over 100 years old (which we will soon) my outrage scale falls off VERY quickly.

Re:Funny First Hand Account (-1, Redundant)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063976)

Yeah... I don't think eldavojohn was advocating stealing... quite the opposite.

I don't think so either.

Fun with numbers (1)

mollog (841386) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063958)

does the slashdot crowd think copying 30-40 games and "saving £600" is good?

And, how many of those games does the modder actually play on a regular basis? With the mod, he can get access to 30-40 games. But does he really play 30-40 games?

I'll bet money he plays just a few games. Now do your math. It's close to a wash at 75 pounds.

Microsoft was attempting to create a closed market for games when it developed the Xbox system. The free-market system found a way to defeat that closed system. Or, don't you believe in free markets?

Re:Funny First Hand Account (4, Insightful)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063724)

That entire first-hand-account is ... annoying.

I was pulling my hair out thinking, 'No, why me?'

That's a question easily answered.

It's like telling someone their dog's just died.

He likes his xbox too much.

I still think they should lower the prices. There are 16-year-old kids out there, they don't earn money so they go screaming to their parents saying, 'Can you buy me this game?'

Their parents should say "No. You buy it yourself. Go earn some money." And why should they lower the prices if people are buying them as it is? I guess normal supply-and-demand isn't good enough for people that don't want to pay for their entertainment. It should be cheaper for the sake of being cheaper...

Fair enough, one game once in a while but the amount of games coming out, good games, everyone wants to play them all.

I would love to have a 100 acre ranch near where I work, too. Unfortunately, they're too expensive.

My favorite quote.

I play with my mates all the time. It's just a good laugh, we all sit there chatting, playing games. Now I don't know what to do.

How about sit there and chat with your mates? Or is playing video games the only thing you and your mates know how to do, and you can't actually have fun without it. *sigh*

Child labor laws (0, Offtopic)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063856)

Their parents should say "No. You buy it yourself. Go earn some money."

How, given modern laws against hiring children?

***hoe m$ (0)

dUN82 (1657647) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063492)

Not being an asshole myself commenting this way , but m$ is being an really asshole doing this, I don't hear apple lock up modded apple tvs, and jailbraked iphones, and have m$ ever given free wi-fi in airports?

Re:***hoe m$ (1, Informative)

Waynelson (1068550) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063618)

I don't hear apple lock up modded apple tvs, and jailbraked iphones, and have m$ ever given free wi-fi in airports?

No, apple would never lock people out from violating their EULA! Never!
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/11/11/1336200/OS-X-Update-Officially-Kills-Intel-Atom-Support [slashdot.org]

Never!
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/07/15/221238/Apple-Update-Means-Palm-Pre-Can-No-Longer-Sync-With-iTunes?art_pos=23 [slashdot.org]

Re:***hoe m$ (0, Offtopic)

Disgruntled Goats (1635745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063658)

Apple has no obligation to support the Atom chip. Apple also has no obligation to allow third party phones to access the iTunes store. I'm sorry, but I fail to see what Apple did wrong as Apple isn't obligated to make their software or services available on your terms.

Re:***hoe m$ (1)

Waynelson (1068550) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063776)

And the evil M$ has no obligation to let people copy games and then play them on their online marketplace.

They didn't disable their equipment, it still works just fine. Just not online via their servers.

Seems pretty reasonable considering that copying those games is considered illegal I believe and if M$ did support using pirated games on XBL they could be liable legally themselves.

This is also helping to protect the rest of the community from those that think it entertaining to cheat and exploit online.

Re:***hoe m$ (1)

Disgruntled Goats (1635745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063898)

And the evil M$ has no obligation to let people copy games and then play them on their online marketplace.

I agree. I even got modded troll for saying so.

Re:***hoe m$ (1)

Deosyne (92713) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063934)

Did you bother to read the post that he was responding to, or is that just some knee-jerk reaction that you have as soon as you see anything that might be considered disparaging of Apple? Particularly seeing as how the poster didn't insult Apple in any way but rather simply posted links to factual data that indicates what Apple has done that is contrary to the statement of the person he was responding to. Put down the pike; your Nirvana is not under attack.

Re:***hoe m$ (0, Troll)

Disgruntled Goats (1635745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063982)

What are you talking about? I don't own an iPod or a Mac. I just get sick and tired of hearing slashdot losers whining cause Apple won't allow them to install OS X on hardware Apple doesn't want to support or they can't use the iTunes store from other devices that Apple doesn't approve as if Apple has an obligation to provide things at the behest of the whiner.

Re:***hoe m$ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063744)

Wow. Not the brightest guy in the bunch, are you? If you suddenly had the ability to download illegally, for free, all iphone apps, and apple found out about it, yes - you would be banned. Not only that, but they would probably go after you with lawyers. Apple hasn't locked those devices because people aren't screwing them out of their revenue. Microsoft arguably loses money on the physical console, while making their money back on games. Take games out of the equation by modding, and they have every reason to be pissed off.

Re:***hoe m$ (1)

IndustrialComplex (975015) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063758)

Not being an asshole myself commenting this way , but m$ is being an really asshole doing this, I don't hear apple lock up modded apple tvs, and jailbraked iphones, and have m$ ever given free wi-fi in airports?

Ever hear of NASCAR or Formula 1 banning a vehicle for fining a driver/team for using hardware that was modified in a manner which was against their rules?

Ever hear of a baseball/basketball/football player being fined, banned, or reprimanded for using 'modded' hardware? (roughed up/greased baseballs, Corked bats, illegal cletes)

Olympic atheletes for using illegal substances in their hardware? (doping)

Microsoft was well within its rights to do what it did, and what's more, they were RIGHT in doing it. One of the key ways in which someone cheats at these games starts with modifying the hardware to bypass controls on modifying the client data.

When I play a game in a controlled environment (online service) I expect the service to make an effort to ensure that each person is playing on a level playing ground.

What Microsoft did here wasn't evil, what they did was one of the fundamental things necessary to run a fair and level game.

You know what they say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063528)

The only reason someone would lift the hood of their car and make modifications to it is to break the speed limit.

Surely, modding has nothing to do with changing the behavior of the games consumers purchased, to gain more replay value out of them. This idea goes against the wishes of the capitalist pigs who want to sell you a locked-down product and charge for each and every modification/enhancement to it. In order to do this successfully, they have to make sure you (the user) are entirely helpless.

Re:You know what they say... (0, Flamebait)

Disgruntled Goats (1635745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063620)

No one forced any of these people to buy a 360 and no one forced them to agree to the terms of using Xbox Live. That they voluntarily purchased a 360, modded it, and attempted to use it on Xbox Live in violation of the agreement they made with Microsoft means that the ban was entirely their fault.

What instead? (0, Redundant)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063950)

No one forced any of these people to buy a 360 and no one forced them to agree to the terms of using Xbox Live.

If one agrees not to modify the hardware, that rules out all three major game consoles. So as major video game publishers leave the PC and flock to the consoles, what's the viable alternative to the console cartel if one wants to play local-multiplayer video games on a TV set?

Re:You know what they say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063690)

If you have such a problem with capitalist pigs, don't buy their stuff in the first place.

Hilarious posts from those affected (3, Interesting)

aftk2 (556992) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063590)

There are some very funny, outraged posts regarding this in the official xbox live forums. Microsoft has also banned players for a number of other offenses, including obscenity and racism, and these posts are great. My favorite: http://forums.xbox.com/29600400/ShowPost.aspx#29600400 [xbox.com]

Re:Hilarious posts from those affected (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063914)

Most of these fools sound like abused spouses that just can't leave the person abusing them.

Hitler is going to be pissed (5, Funny)

diablovision (83618) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063652)

Hitler is going to be pissed!

PISSED! [youtube.com]

'Cause modding hardware you own should be illegal! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30063764)

Glad i never bought one of those pieces of shit.

Re:'Cause modding hardware you own should be illeg (2, Insightful)

Disgruntled Goats (1635745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063918)

'Cause modding hardware you own should be illegal!

No, but violating the terms of use you agreed to buy using their service means they are perfectly justified in banning you from that service when you break the rules.

So they kicked off all the pirates now? (2, Funny)

kindbud (90044) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063790)

This three percent is one helluava mighty pirating engine ain't it? According to Microsoft, it's this three percent that's been the cause of the falling profits all this time. Now that they have been eliminated from being able to purchase stuff from Live... er.... I mean, uh.... now that they've been ejected.... No....

Can we just jump to the "Profit" step now, quick-like?

Re:So they kicked off all the pirates now? (1)

brit74 (831798) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063988)

Yeah, the profit part is easy. If you allow piracy to continue, then the XBox platform goes down. Taking action against pirates acts as a deterrent to discourage paying customers from becoming pirates. Not taking action against pirates makes paying customers feel like suckers because they're not jumping on on the bonanza of free stuff and zero consequences. Yes, you lose those disconnected pirates, but they were pirates, so what good are they?

Wow... (1)

BillCable (1464383) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063810)

Talk about suicidal. Sentiments within the gaming community are critical when it comes to consoles. Many will see this as an attack on them.

Modding consoles? (1)

Vahokif (1292866) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063814)

Aww, look at all the console kids wanting to be PC gamers.

Marketing more than Customer Service (1)

odin84gk (1162545) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063858)

The timing on this is making me skeptical. It looks like they waited to do the bans until the Christmas season. That way little jimmy will be asking for a new xbox because his old one got banned.

Number is Wild Ass Guess - Here's the source (1)

harl (84412) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063874)

The number is a wild ass guess. It's from a an anonymous post to a forum. In typical internet fashion it's being parroted around as fact.

http://www.digital-forums.com/showthread.php?t=608748 [digital-forums.com]

It's literally friend of a friend info that the BBC et al. is reporting as fact.

RRoD Fixes (1)

sajuuk (1371145) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063932)

I wonder if we'll get stats on how many of the consoles were banned were actually registered as modded because they used the 'copper penny heatsink' mod to prevent Red Rings due to overheating and just didn't reassemble their console correctly.

With every loss there is opportunity... (5, Insightful)

denton420 (1235028) | more than 4 years ago | (#30063952)

First of all let me say that the market for used xbox consoles just got extremely dangerous!

Microsoft needs to set up a system where you can check the status of an xbox console remotely so people can still sell consoles with confidence... 600K Xboxes are about to go up on ebay for a deal that is just too good to pass up.

Secondly if you assume that you do not mind playing games offline that you have pirated, you can still beat the system. Is that not what this is all about?

Step 1: Buy an xbox that has been live banned for very cheap off ebay. It has already been modded, so you dont have to pay for that.

Step 2: Download 50-60 dollar games for free and play them to your hearts content, offline.

After a few games you have already made your money back from the initial purchase of the console.

What if you want to play on xbox live? You have a live console that you do not hack and just enjoy online games there.

You still have to buy games that you want to play online, but there are a lot fewer online games that are worth playing than there are short and sweet single player games that you can just download for free.

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