Software Piracy At the Workplace? 1006
An anonymous reader writes "What does one do when a good portion of the application software at your workplace is pirated? Bringing this up did not endear me at all to the president of the company. I was given a flat 'We don't pirate software,' and 'We must have paid for it at some point.' Given that I was only able to find one burnt copy of Office Pro with a Google-able CD-Key, and that version of Office is on at least 20 computers, I'm not convinced. Some of the legit software in the company has been installed on more than one computer, such as Adobe Acrobat. Nevertheless I have been called on to install dubious software on multiple occasions. As for shareware, what strategies do you use to convince management to allow the purchase of commonly used utilities? If an installation of WinZip reports thousands of uses, I think the software developer deserves a bit o' coin for it. When I told management that WinZip has a timeout counter that counts off one second per file previously opened, they tried to implement a policy of wait for it, do something else, and come back later, rather than spend the money. Also, some software is free for home and educational use only, like AVG Free. What do you when management ignores this?"
Bide your time (Score:5, Insightful)
Do what you're told. Look for another job.
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Do what you're told. Look for another job.
Be a good little wage slave and don't get uppity and challenge your masters until you find new masters. Or call the BSA [bsa.org]. Of course if you're going to do that, better not to identify yourself by bringing your concern to management first.
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Insightful)
Since you're the one that complained, they will naturally suspect you when the BSA or someone else shows up. Wait until someone gets fired or there's a tiff with the boss and an employee or something like that -- in other words, don't file a complaint until someone else there would have a reason to want to nail the boss, then file it so the timing makes it look like that person is complaining, not you.
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Insightful)
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That right. I would suggest that you line up another job before you notify BSA. Otherwise I would suggest pushing things like OpenOffice as an alternate to getting legit licensing.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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Most of the software in question has viable alternatives. 1: instead of MS Office, install OOo, unless they pay for more keys. 2: instead of WinZip, 7-zip rules (there's other front ends for 7-zip) and you can make the default format for 7zip .zip instead of .7z ... 3: use PDF Creator or another print to pdf option, keeping originals in an editable document format.
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I don't know what's worse, that someone is suggesting (as part of an ethics discussion, no less) that you effectively frame another employee, or that said suggestion got modded Insightful.
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Re:Then THEY should get another job (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Then THEY should get another job (Score:5, Insightful)
The better (business) solution is to speak to management in terms they can understand - money.
I'm not saying that they need to feel threatened. Instead, point out that you are looking out for the interests of the company and want to ensure all bases are covered in the event of a short-notice software audit.
Then you outline a plan to audit the computers on your network and a plan for remediation (buying licenses, uninstalling software, and/or using some sort of network-wide metering package). Again, this should be done with the focus on how much this will cost the company versus not complying and getting caught with unlicensed software. Remember, management really only cares about budgets and how much of it needs to be expended. It might also help to explain that your own ass is on the line as the IT admin and that, by formally notifying management (you *are* documenting this formally, right?), they are just as culpable if/when a BSA audit occurs.
Part of a good admin's job is to audit the environment regularly for such things, anyway. Even if no action is taken on the findings, at least you know where you're starting from when action ultimately does need to be taken - for any sort of project, not just software license management.
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Re:Then THEY should get another job (Score:4, Insightful)
You're not very good at extrapolation, are you? I'll admit I share a very tiny sliver of your hope, but I'm certainly not holding my breath. If any kind of sane copyright laws get enacted during my lifetime, I'll be very surprised.
Re:Then THEY should get another job (Score:4, Interesting)
"Endless copyright may be wrong but that will change eventually."
I beg to differ. History as well as current trends show that copyright law is getting more and more restrictive, less and less fair, and will continue to do so, UNLESS the people stand up and say, "Enough is ENOUGH!"
That ACTA treaty that is secretly being worked out scares me. The "IP Holders" seem to have all the say on it. As an international treaty, it will trump national law once a nation signs on to it. It seems that "3 strikes and you're out" will be an integral part of the treaty. But, NO ONE KNOWS anything for sure, because the *IAA's of the world are in, and the public is out of any discussion.
Copyright law could conceivably be as bad as anything Orwelle envisioned. It could even require police ware on your computer, which will report anything you do. Insane.
Re:What do you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
Obviously said by someone who's never put a lot of work into a program, video, script, or anything else that requires creative work, then wondered why he wasn't making money on it.
If I build a house, I get paid by the people who use it. If I put the same effort into, say, a film script, that might take anywhere from 6 weeks to a year to write, why should people get it for free?
Interesting how the kiddies who've never had to work for a living thing they should get everything for free and don't have the backbone to produce anything worthwhile in exchange. They're the real users or AOLusers -- use and use and too impotent to produce on their own.
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Because just because you put effort into it doesn't guarantee you can make a profit off of it, even if you intend to do so. Houses are scarce resources; information is reproducible and not scarce. It's not that you don't "deserve" compensation or that it "should" be free, it's that simply that technology is changing everything. Because I put effort into mowing my lawn, does not mean I should be able to charge people for looking at it or making copies of a photograph of it. It's ludicrous to say that you
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There's a reason why things are like this, and that's because no one would bother writing professional-quality software if they didn't get paid enough for it. Think all you want about how immaterial things should be free, but if all information somehow had to be free then you wouldn't have anymore professional software around, you'd be stuck with crap like GIMP or Blender and would never again see anything like Photoshop or 3DS Max. There's thousands of man-hours of work that go into each such commercial pr
Re:What do you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
You make a pretty big leap, saying that disagreeing with the current application of intellectual property laws is the same as not believing in ownership of private property.
If you make something, you deserve to charge money for it. It's a big jump to then say that your great great great grandchildren should also make money from it. An even bigger jump to say that you can transfer your rights to someone else who can then make money from it in perpetuity and an even bigger jump to say that the people who buy your product don't really own it but are only leasing it for however long you say and not a moment longer.
The notion that intellectual property rights have certain limits, especially on the length of time you can claim those rights has been part of the laws of copyright and patent for a very long time. Given the ephemeral nature of ideas, this makes sense and has been a system that works. It's only since certain people, usually not the people who actually come up with the ideas, have started trying to assert longer and longer copyright periods, limiting the rights of the purchaser and coming up with perverted notions such as "licensing" products to consumers instead of "selling" those products, that there has been a serious pushback from consumers.
Making things and buying and selling those things is a two-way transaction that has been part of the social contract for a long time. Recently, one side of that transaction has decided to assert their financial power by making the rules of the transaction less equitable. That has caused many people on the other side of the transaction to believe the whole setup is bad, which leads to widespread rulebreaking.
You can say that the people breaking the rules are criminals or communists or even terrorists, but it would be easier to swallow these assertions if those on the supply side of the transaction had acted in good faith from the beginning. Unfortunately, "taking advantage of a powerful position" has become a sacred rite in the religion of free market economics. So, you end up with a surprising number of people who lose respect for the entire transaction. Maybe it's in the nature of human societies that every so often, when a transaction becomes unbalanced, that there is a widespread breakdown in following the rules which escalates until the system can be retooled. This seems to be what's happening in the realm of "intellectual property" (and, I can argue, in the entire system we know as "capitalism").
Behaviors that should have ended with feudalism now become "good business practice". No wonder so many people now believe that all of free market economics is a scam. One thing for sure, it's unlikely the system is going to be fixed by escalating the inequity of the transaction.
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But that's just it: they don't have to buy it. And apparently there's a large segment of society that does not feel such an impulse to respect intellectual property laws. That's the point of my argument here.
The only time we've seen such a large portion of society openly willing to break a law has been prohibition against alcohol and marijuana. And one of those laws fell and the other is weakened every day.
That's why it's important to look at the reasons behind the public's unwill
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You are confusing the utilitarian aspect of someone (i.e., the government) protecting original ideas versus a morally justified right to having that idea protected.
I like how you implied I don't believe in private property because I believe scarcity is the main factor in property rights--I argued that anything scarce should be considered to be property. Anything that cannot be informationally copied. That's the difference between stealing and transcribing a book.
A more easy way to look at it is the level
Re:What do you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
(Please bear in mind that I didn't read the grandpappy post, just the bit you quoted and your response.)
The FOSS movement does not equate the two concepts "a particular configuration of 1s and 0s" and "creat[ing that sequence of 1s and 0s] as you need them" as you have. The problem is in the notion of doing something cool once and then making money off of it for the rest of your life when there is zero cost to mass produce (i.e., make digital copies). This is where the FOSS movement and I part ways a bit, because FOSS says that it's "unethical" to do this. I'm not quite sure what that means, but I know if the cost of mass producing something is negligible, it's certainly impractical at the very least.
From the standpoint of a healthy capitalist society, I regard software more as a service (and don't confused SaaS here, I'm talking about box software like Windows) than a product. Capitalism is supposed to reward people for doing useful work. Patents and copyrights were originally conceived to do this, but over time they've become more and more about allowing one to rest on one's laurels and live a life of luxury for having done that one cool thing. I'm not exactly sure where this expectation of entitlement comes from...what other line of work doesn't require you to show up everyday to get a paycheck?
The "service" part of software comes in the form of extension and support. If I make something cool and release it for free, I may be paid to support it (ongoing labor), or even extend it (short-term labor at a particular customer's behest). Even in the case of being paid to do an extension I otherwise would not have done, I as the developer and strongly incented to release it for free to all because it presumably makes my original software more valuable and will drive further business.
Not coincidentally, this is actually how most commercial software companies actually work. I used to work for a well-known company that made marketing software, and they would routinely cut their prices 50%, even up to 90% to make a big sale. That sounds crazy until you understand the logic of it, which was to lock up the far more valuable support contract. In other words, what the market was saying is that the software itself wasn't valuable to customers—the support and ability to get feature requests answered, on the other hand, was. And so the pricing structure reflected that...give (or nearly give) the software away, and charge the real bucks for what the buyer is actually willing to pay for.
This happened on nearly every deal at that company, and it led me to wonder why they even bothered with charging at all...why not just give it away for free download on the website? Sure, a lot of small fish that otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it would start using it without ever paying a dime into the system...but so what? We weren't going to make money off of them anyway, and by removing the barrier to entry we open the door to at least small or one-time support fees, get better feedback for laying out our roadmap, and potentially deprive a competitor of a sale, increasing our own marketshare.
Re:What do you expect? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, the "service" business model doesn't work for everything, for example it wouldn't work with my program for which no support is needed. And as for the "sitting back and getting money for the rest of your life" argument, well so what, it's not the only case where that happens. People get lots of money from doing much less. Are you actually asking for how long are you entitled to receive money from the work you did after you stopped doing anything to it? Sounds like what you're pondering to me! Is it fair to reap the fruits from something you did 20 years ago? What's fair?
The elephant in the room here is that you all want to copy those immaterial works for free, and because of this you come up with bullshit moral justifications to get as much as you can for free. I pirate everything too, but I'm not an hypocrite, I don't try to disguise my not wanting to pay for things I can have for free as a moral war against injustice. You might think it conflicts with me selling software, but to me it doesn't, because there's no morals involved anywhere on either side of the equation. I pirate anything I want cause I need it/want it and I don't have the money for it and even if I did I'd rather not pay for what I can have for free, and on the other hand I need to make money, selling software is one way, and if my sales went down too low for a reason or another I'd look for job (which I'm actually in the process of doing, software sales are too irregular and make me just enough for a very modest living).
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Technlogy is NOT "changing everything." Not many peope can write software, compelling stories, make good movies, video games, etc. As long as THAT doesn't change (and I don't see it changing anytime soon), copyright is just as valid today as it was 200 years ago.
Someone is providing a benefit, which, while not physical property, does mean they deserve to be paid.
Unless you don't want USEFUL software.
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That's just a matter of accounting. The writers could just charge more up-front and end up with the same amount earned at the end of the road.
No, it's more than that. Charging up front means you decide on a value for your time, and once you collect that amount, the transaction is complete.
Charging per copy means the value of your time is unknown. You could sell one copy, or you could sell a million; you did the same amount of work either way, but the amount you get paid can vary wildly. And since there's no upper bound on the (retroactive) value of your time, you'll never be satisfied with any amount.
Think about it. When was the last time a well-
Re:Bide your time (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry but thats pretty crappy advice. He should be recommending free alternatives, not jumping ship. He should also expect to see some license irregularities time from time, especially in small business. He should bring this up, with the working alternatives. If you quit every job with a challenge then you'll end up no where.
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Interesting)
The boss may be a sociopath, but even sociopaths can do the right thing if it happens to benefit them the most. Tell the boss that the BSA offers rewards for turning in companies that pirate software. Tell the boss that anyone can turn the company in. Tell him that, if that happens, based on his response to your initial reports and the fact that you are the software guy, you fully expect him to use you as his scapegoat.
Then tell him you can only see two ways out of this dilemma: one, he does the right thing and gets the licenses. Two, you report the company, collect the reward, and find another job. Tell him you don't want to choose the second option, but if he doesn't do the right thing, it is the only way you can protect yourself. Finally, remind him that option two is by far the more expensive option for the company.
At this point he will either become furious and fire you on the spot, gaining you some unemployment, or he will fix things. If he's a real sociopath, though, he may just fix things and then fire you anyway. It's probably best to pull this after you have another potential job lined up.
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Insightful)
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Blackmail does not require the demand or exchange of money. It can also refer to demanding specific services or actions be performed, as well. As long as you're demanding that somebody do something they might not otherwise do, and the demand is backed by a threat of some sort, it's blackmail. In this case, it is blackmail, as it's quite clearly a case of saying "buy these licenses, or I go to the police". If I were the manager in
Beyond absurd (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow. What a great justification of illegal activity. Sorry, but djheru is right. Threatening to report illegal activity unless it is stopped is not blackmail. Threatening to report it unless I get some money is, but blackmail involves the blackmailer benefiting.
You've basically made the argument that no one ever has the right to threaten to go to the police if the criminal activity doesn't stop. That's beyond absurd.
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Except that this isn't a criminal matter, and you're not going to the police to report a crime. You're going to a civil organization which will litigate a civil matter. Namely, alleged software piracy.
The point stands... if I were a manager and one of my employees came to me with an ultimatum like that, I'd fire them on the spot. If you're planning on going to the BSA, just do it. Don't threaten your employers with the nasty consequences if they don't do what you want them to do. It's hugely inappropriate t
Re:Bide your time (Score:4, Insightful)
At this point he will either become furious and fire you on the spot, gaining you some unemployment, or he will fix things. If he's a real sociopath, though, he may just fix things and then fire you anyway. It's probably best to pull this after you have another potential job lined up.
Even if he doesn't fire you, he'll probably find ways to punish you and make your life hell. It's probably best to pull this after you have another job lined up and want to quit anyway.
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This is pretty close to extortion, but aside from that, it's going to get him fired at an inopportune time.
The best choice for this guy is to immediately look for a new job. This one is obviously not working out, and it would be idiotic for him to try to continue building his career there. He's probably already on their hit list for bringing this subject up. On the way out, he might as well report their asses to the BSA in exchange for a hefty reward. Normally I don't like the BSA's actions that much, b
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I think you just found the IT equivalent of ambulance-chasing laywers...
1. Find job at company XYZ.
2. Make a list of all licensing violations.
3. Quit job, stating "found better job" or whatever.
4. Call BSA with all violations, collect rewards.
5. Profits!
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Get Out. Sleep Better. (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't think that the company president who "didn't know he was using pirated software" won't serve you up as the sacrificial lamb to the Powers That Be in a heartbeat when some disgruntled ex-employee rats to the BSA. At that point, you'll be out of a job the hard way, with the kind of black stain on a record that no young IT guy wants to have.
Re:Get Out. Sleep Better. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not necessarily.
If it's within your purview, you can always try ordering licenses for the software in question, or submitting the purchase request through proper channels. When asked why, explain that you cannot find any licensing information, and you're looking to protect the company's interests.
That said, it's not your job to make policy, nor is it your responsibility to protect the financial interests of the publishers of the software in question.
So, keep a record of all of your meetings and document all conversations you had with any superiors regarding the situation. Obviously you don't want to include any especially damning details one way or the other -- your goal here is not retribution, it's job and career security. If you said nothing to management about a problem you knew about, then you're at fault. At the same time, you don't want to take the fall if/when someone reports your company. Keeping records will help to defend against either scenario, and improve your job prospects should you be "let go." It's evidence that you were trying to be a team player. CYA -- Cover Your Ass -- but don't rock the boat unless you're prepared for the consequences when everyone ends up in the water (including yourself).
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Insightful)
So, it's okay for people to not say anything about corporate software piracy (hundreds if not thousands of dollars), but if you pirate a game for home use (around 60 dollars) or pirate a single song you're supposed to shut your mouth, end up in court and pay millions in damages?
Talk about double standards.
Other professions have liabilities and so should IT.
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Insightful)
I.T. is the farthest thing from a profession.
No barriers to entry, no professional society to get bounced out of.
Accounting, engineering, law, medicine are professions - we're computer janitors.
Re:Bide your time (Score:4, Funny)
Accounting, engineering, law, medicine are professions - we're computer janitors.
Yeah... But at least you don't have a union to hold you back.
Re:Bide your time (Score:4, Insightful)
As I work in both IT and Education I have been offered membership in a union and steadfastly refuse to join one of those corrupt, self serving, industry destroying political lobbies.
Oh go cry us a river.
First and foremost, I would like it made clear I am *not* a member of a Union,...however, considering the garbage I've had to deal with, I'd gladly join one if it were available. I really grow tired of this "anti-Union" talk from people WHO WOULD BENEFIT FROM COLLECTIVE BARGAINING THE MOST.
I don't understand where this belief comes from that *you* (or I for that matter) have a duty to be the martyr on the cross of exploitation by major corporations. I don't care if you're talking about IT in a company like IBM, or a Construction worker down on 5th street. Taking advantage of your employees is TAKING ADVANTAGE OF YOUR EMPLOYEES...there's no other way to look at it.
As someone said earlier, is the company going to take responsibility if this gets discovered, or are they going to forget all about the fact they were told something wasn't kosher and decide it was all the fault of this "lone rogue person"
I'd put money on the corporation covering their ass every time.
Re:Bide your time (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem is that Slashdot has a whole lot of Ayn Rand Assholes [gq.com] floating around. These are people who need to think that they are superior to other people because they worship the magical market, and that it is their job to be exploited because the people above them are better people. To admit that they are being taken advantage of would be to act like "leeches."
Folks, people who do very little and who, despite what they claim, have no particular risk suck up most of your money. Organizations are team efforts, and while I think it's clear that those at the top should make more than those at the bottom, the vast armies of mid- and lower-level workers deserve a much bigger cut of the pie. There is no organization without them--just a bunch of sociopaths having a circle-jerk in a boardroom. "Men of talent" like to believe they don't need "mediocrites," but they most certainly do. An economy only exists when everyone is playing.
I have been contemplating joining a union myself. The Japanese education industry is starting to do some pretty crazy things--things that have become commonplace in the US, to the detriment of our system. They are attempting to keep us all on one-year contracts. This is a great deal for them, because they can fire people as enrollment rises and falls, but it means that one never knows if he can finish a research project--research being a type of marketing for a university, so it's not just for the researcher--and makes it very hard to get started. Furthermore, it hurts loyalty and productivity. When my school asks me to do things, the zeal with which I do it has a lot to do with my contract length. Getting involved in a project and then coming to the end of your contract and being let go hurts the project and makes one feel like they have been cheated (it's happened to me). Furthermore, to make sure that they are being fair, schools hold tight to the number of contract renewals they say you can have. It doesn't matter how beneficial your presence, they open themselves to legal liability if they let you stay, because someone else who isn't may sue. There was actually a panic and scramble at the end of my contract at my last place, because there was no one who could replace me. My boss tried to work out a deal to keep me, but administration made the (absolutely correct) liability point and off I went, and the project died after lots of time and money spent.
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING FIXES PROBLEMS LIKE THIS.
There is nothing wrong with asserting yourself and demanding a bigger cut of the pie--executives do it all the time! That's business!
Re:Bide your time (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree, except for one thing. By your definition, software engineering isn't really a profession either. There is no professional association that accredits software engineers or kicks them out for writing crappy software. The barrier to entry isn't really that high either. I have yet to see a commercial software application that had any REAL warranty. Software warranties boil down to: "if it works, great. If it doesn't then too bad for you". If there are no consequences then there is no need to have a legally responsible engineer.
I still find it amazing that companies are so heavily dependent on software that nobody really stands behind. I think this explains why IT can be such a miserable job. The company has to have someone to blame!
Re:Bide your time (Score:4, Interesting)
However, 1) just because we are not members of some type of professional society does not mean that we IT workers should hold ourselves to a lower standard than the professions you listed; and 2) to some extent, we do have professional "societies" that many of us belong to -- although admittedly, not quite as formal or as strict as the professions you referenced. How many IT workers hold certifications -- and have those certifications as prerequisites of their jobs? In many cases, prospective IT workers may never get past the HR department without a piece of paper that says MCSE, CCNA, CCIE, etc. Many of those certifications state that if you use ${certificationOrganization}'s software in violation of it's EULA, you will lose your certification...which can make reemployment elsewhere rather difficult.
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing about being a professional is that every guy in the field is chained to the same code of conduct.
Imagine this conversation with a lawyer or an accountant -
Boss - please do %dodgy_thing%.
Lawyer/Accountant - Hell no, I'm not getting disbarred/whatever for you guys, and furthermore there's not a lawyer/accountant in the country who will put their name on %dodgy_thing%.
In the IT world there's lots of people who would happily install pirated software, the company can just turf the original poster and hire someone else off the street.
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Funny)
Lawyer - Hell no, I'm not getting disbarred/whatever for you guys, and furthermore there's not a lawyer in the country who will put their name on %dodgy_thing%.
You're kidding right?
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So you think there's no shady lawyers and accountants that will break every rule in the book? There's plenty of breaking codes of conduct in those professions. It might be less likely than in IT, but the amounts of money involved in corporate piracy tends to be smaller than when a corporation deceives or outright lies in their quarterly reports.
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I agree in principle that a good professional society that can help enforce minimum standards of ethical conduct is probably a good idea. (Basically: Have them stated, be prepared to support those who uphold them, and keep accounting of who and where they are being intentionally violated, so that they can be shamed.)
And there doesn't seem to be one. It would probably take a while for one to get fully established, then recognized, and accepted. But that could only happen after one gets started.
So, the nex
Re:Bide your time (Score:4, Funny)
There's one difference between IT and janitors - sometimes the users LIKE their janitors.
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Another difference - janitors can drink on the job ... oh, wait ...
9 similarities and one difference between programmers to janitors:
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Even worse (in a way) - why are they being so stupid as to wait for Winzip when 1) it's pretty cheap (by corporate standards) and 2) there are FREE alternatives available
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Insightful)
It's about having priorities. If you believe getting "far up the corporate ladder" is more important than your own ethics, then you're spineless.... or never had the ethics you thought you had. And you should be watched for malfeasance.
The corporate, administrative, and political systems all live by the "good ol' boys club", "blue wall of silence", and "team players" code. If you hate it... don't become a part of it. If you like it, then I don't want you in those industries.
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Insightful)
Find another job, while documenting everything you have. Tell your new employer, flatly, that you feel you're working in an ethicsless stability hell-hole that could be sued into the ground at any point, and that you've brought up numerous internal illegal activities to upper management repeatedly and they've flatly denied it or told you to ignore it. Be prepared to justify the extent of the behavior as far-reaching, and clarify the intent of continued behavior at all levels of management. Be prepared not to be hired by shady companies, and to be immediately hired on by companies that hire specific licensing compliance personnel to do their own internal audits (yes, companies actually search themselves for illegal use of products so they can determine business advantage to using them and either ban their use or obtain the proper license).
Tell your CURRENT employer this in your exit interview if you must... but its not any business of any future employers. It could even be considered a violation of your confidentiality agreement to tell others about this (you could get sued...) Also, if you tell a potential employer about something a former employer did wrong, they will be wondering what you will be saying about them in the future. In business the old adage "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" is one to live by.
If you feel you must take further action, file a report with the BSA (not the Boy Scouts of America - the Business Software Association) and be prepared for a shitstorm to ensue.
In any case, get out ASAP. You are liable for your actions regardless of the fact that you are just following orders. Installing known pirated software for your employers is actionable -you could personaly face penalties. Telling the boss NO when he instructs you to install the software could get you fired as well.
You tried to tell them about the problem. They chose not to listen. Now get yourself out of harms way.
Re:Bide your time (Score:5, Insightful)
I've found, from past experience, that it's always good to be honest in your interviews. I flat out told a company that ultimately hired me, that one of the main reasons I'd left my previous job was that I felt that management didn't understand the industry, and that there were some questionable ethics going on behind closed doors. The company hired me. And on day 1 of my training, they said that ethics and openness were paramount within the company, and that if I ever felt that something was hinky, I was to e-mail my manager, and CC his boss. Within that organization, I *never* needed to take them up on that offer.
Coincidentally, that organization was one that routinely monitored computers for pirated software. When they found something questionable, they e-mailed the person whose workstation it was, asking them to either remove the software or provide a license for it. If they didn't get an answer within 1 week, they'd e-mail the person's boss. 1 week after that, they'd have IT reimage the computer.
Be honest. You're more likely to get a job that actually suits you.
Re:Bide your time (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Bide your time (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bide your time (Score:4, Interesting)
Since you brought it up... You're liable (Score:4, Informative)
Unfortunately ignorance of the law is no defense. The same is true for not saying anything when you witness a crime being committed. It's called obstruction. So, CYA: leave the company as soon as you can. Assume you WILL be held accountable in the future.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Parent advice is BAD. If no duty is imposed upon an actor, most states do not impose liability for simply knowing of the commission of a crime and remaining silent.
Don't rely on this email for legal advice. Don't rely on parent's email for legal advice. Don't rely on ANYTHING in slashdot for legal advice.
Re:Since you brought it up... You're liable (Score:4, Insightful)
The BSA is almost as sociopathic as the Company President in the slashdot summary. If you go to them, expect to be blackballed just as surely as if the company got ratted out by someone else and you took the blame.
Would you work for a company that stole cars to maintain its motor pool - and you are the head of the Motor Pool Division? Time to find a new job. Times are tough, but jail time is worse.
Your answer is at http://www.monster.com (Score:4, Insightful)
I can see two honorable paths here:
You can find them FOSS substitutes for their existing software.
You can find another job.
If you want to be optimistic you can stand your ground with the managers and state: "I will not install software unless I'm certain we have a proper license for it." And see if they show you the door, or attempt to find some kind of compromise. People that take the time to look seriously at Open Office often like what they find. So there is a slim hope, but odds are, these are not the class of people you want to make a career with, and you'll be happier working somewhere that ethical compromises are not a daily expectation.
It's funny, isn't it... (Score:4, Insightful)
Instead of saying "Well, I do seem to be surrounded by CD-R copies of commercial software activated with leaked VLKs, I must be a dirty pirate." they say "I'm obviously a good person, and good people don't do bad things, therefore the things that I have done could not possibly be bad."
This would be merely harmless idiocy, were it not for the fact that most of those people are completely wrong.
recommend free alternatives (Score:5, Informative)
Security essentials is free for business, so replace AVG with that:
http://www.microsoft.com/Security_Essentials/ [microsoft.com]
7Zip is free and OSS. Replace Winzip with that. Heck, XP has its own zip handler installed. A lot of techies assumed that XP needs a zip program because 2000 didnt have one. Get rid of it.
http://www.7-zip.org/ [7-zip.org]
PDFCreator is free and OSS. It can make PDFs. Most people just need to make them, not 'edit' them.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/ [sourceforge.net]
Re:recommend free alternatives (Score:5, Informative)
Eh, 7-Zip is a better compression algorithm than it is software. The GUI is not as nice as that in WinZIP or WinRAR (it's designed around Norton Commander instead of the more well-understood Windows Explorer model), the installer doesn't provide the option to associate the files, the association mechanism within the program itself wants admin rights but doesn't properly ask for them so it conflicts with Vista and 7's UAC, the archiver lacks "preserve full pathname" support (extraction support works fine), the context menu component defaults to off, etc. The command line version makes me miss tar, as it lacks the seemingly-basic feature of deleting files after archiving which would make archiving logs so easy.
It's a good program that's fine for personal and home use, but it requires a lot of post-install configuration that is difficult to deploy for a business to get the kind of uniform desktops that make IT life easier. About the only good thing business-wise is that the installer is an .msi file.
I use 7-Zip because it's free as in beer. If I had my choice, though, I'd use WinRAR.
Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
get another job (Score:5, Insightful)
undoing redundant mod (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I also hate those stupid "choosing an item in the list equals submitting said choice".
Choosing something in a list is one step, submitting your choice is another.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So is not paying for software.
If you are willing to steal from other companies, pirate software, etc., and openly lie about it, then chances are you don't particularly care about your customer, either. You care literally only about money, apparently.
Different Approach (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead of accsing the company of piracy (even if they're guilty), use another approach.
Say, I'm concerned that renewing future licenses will be very expensive. Say, the 1,000 copies of Winzip at $30 each is $30,000. 7-zip is a free alternative that actually works better, and will save the company $30,000 the new time those licenses need to be renewed. Alnd OpenOffice saves $400 per license over MS Office. OpenOffice comes with free PDF export functionality, which saves the $500 Acrobat license.
You may get approval to install free, legal alternatives and get rid of the pirated software. Even better, instead of being seen as the problem (the person who has a moral objection to their piracy), you'll be seen as a solution.
Re:Different Approach (Score:5, Interesting)
Or, if you are in a position of relative authority (and not as afraid of getting canned) you can quote the $250,000 fines the BSA can assess PER VIOLATION and tell them it would greatly behoove themselves to switch to FOSS alternatives and cover their ass.
Live with it or find another job (Score:5, Insightful)
In office environments like this, management's stand is very unlikely to change. Trying to change their minds will be an exercise in futility, so you need to just focus your decision making on whether or not you are willing to stick around and be a part of it, or would rather look for another job.
Piracy without guns and ships? (Score:5, Interesting)
Common cause of termination in bad startups (Score:5, Informative)
A friend of mine was uncomfortable with using the pirated s/w at her company and so switched her computer and work products
from (pirated) Office to OpenOffice, (pirated) MatLab to Octave, and VBA to python. She also brought the overall issue up with the CEO, suggesting
that the company should pay for its payware, or switch to FOSS.
Needless to say, not long afterwards, she was terminated with some lame excuse but it's clear it was for not being a "team player".
The 95% of the technology startups in our town are laughingly underfunded
(e.g. reverse mortgage on CEO's house and small contribution from Aunt Tilly's bakery), so they have no
money for legit licenses. Unfortunately, the management at many are too stupid to understand that there are perfectly good FOSS
alternatives for all of it.
My job used to be like this.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I am a sysadm/web developer for a smallish manufacturing business. When I got here, there licensing was a complete and utter mess. They had about half the number of Office licenses as needed (And half of those were Home/Student Edition), they had a centralized AV solution that they were still getting updates for but hadn't paid for in three years, and just overall were NOT compliant.
I brought it to the company president's attention. Buying 40 Office licenses at a time (Probably around $10000 for Small Business) as well as 70-80 AV subscriptions (Maybe another $2000), and various other server and client software (Around $12,000 more) was not something they wanted to do. They did agree to take it slow and get legit over a period of time. During that period, I did install Office on more machines but they bought the licenses over a period of 18 months. In the end, I am happy to say we are nearly 100% compliant.
So I guess instead of going to him with a HUGE bill, maybe write up a plan to go legit over the next year or two. They may balk at a one time large sum of money but be willing to pay $1000 here, $2000 there or something. Worked for me. If the company is too cheap to even do that, you probably aren't going to you as an employee and are probably better off starting to look around....
Re:My job used to be like this.... (Score:5, Interesting)
That said, in my case, I had an advantage - the owner of the company didn't realize what the IT Manager was doing and wasn't terribly happy about it when she found out. In the original questioner's case, however, that might not be the case. If you can't find someone higher than you and/or your manager that's willing to support your efforts to bring the company into compliance, either through replacing existing software with legitimately free alternatives or through purchasing licensing (or some combination of the two), follow what everyone else is saying here: Document like mad, update your CV, and call the BSA.
Happens all the time (Score:4, Funny)
Business is business (Score:3, Informative)
Copyright Infringement != Piracy (Score:4, Funny)
Don't play their game.
Piracy is ship to ship armed robbery. Unless this company is boarding a ship full of software with cutlasses drawn... it isn't piracy. Calling infringement piracy makes it seem worse than it is and makes light of what is happening off the coast of Africa.
Cue the descriptivists....
Document... (Score:3, Insightful)
Document (as in "make sure the decision maker is aware of it") the need for an audit of software licenses. If they refuse to permit that, cover your ass as best you can and start looking for another job.
If they permit the audit, do it. If you come up short in the licenses-to-installed copies ratio, document that. If they refuse to mitigate (buy licenses or delete installations) cover your ass as best you can and look for another job.
It is your job to make the decision makers aware of the licensing terms, show them how the organization is or is not in compliance with those terms, and to educate them as to the consequences of failing to comply. If you are not allowed, at the very minimum, to do these things, rest assured that it will be you who is blamed when that willful negligence comes back to bite the organization. Cover your ass and get the documentation that shows you at least tried to get them to do the right thing.
7 simple guidelines... (Score:5, Interesting)
The best case scenario is that you can migrate them to free software and be hailed a hero. Don't expect it though. Here are the best of the many ideas I've seen posted to slashdot on this recurring topic.
1. Consider putting a lawyer on retainer. Not as expensive as you might think and an hour or so's conversation can ensure that you document all the appropriate recommendations to keep you out of the BSA's sights and do so in a legally admissible fashion.
2. Don't make it look like a crusade so avoid being confrontational. i.e. "We need to find out who uses $software_package so we can put upgrades/support in next year's budget" or "Investigate free-for-commercial-use $kind_of_software to avoid budgeting needs entirely"
3. Document any time you bring it up with your boss. Use email or written word as much as possible. BCC an external email address and/or take backups of your exchanges home. (again, see #1 for region-specific laws)
4. Any time you are given a verbal pat on the head, do an email follow up later and if at all possible put the responsibility of license management on them. "I installed Office on the 2 new-hires' PCs. We have $quantity copies of Office installed to date. Let me know when we are getting close to our license limit as I may be able to remove the software from $clueless_user's PC."
5. List any of your little victories as fiscal savings during reviews or status reports. "Have replaced Adobe Acrobate Suite with $freeware_PDF_exporter, which will lower our licensing overhead by $250/user and allowed for widespread distribution"
6. Be prepared to be thrown under the bus. Companies willing to operate unethically are, by definition, unethical. Even if you never report them to the BSA, someone else might and you, as the IT guy, may be thrown to the wolves. Having that documentation of all the times that the CFO/CEO was stated to be in charge of license management and that you had no knowledge of the licensing limits, plus the fact they knew how many instances of software will at least ensure you get your unemployment and that the BSA won't come after you.
7. If you report them to the BSA, make sure to get the bounty and put your lawyer on notice. The BSA has a vested interest in concealing their informants, but stuff can come out and unethical people do unethical things. They often say or do things that are defamatory in the process. Whistleblower laws should ensure you can get compensation for lost wages, compensation for defamation, damage to career, etc.
Let me get past the easy comments... (Score:5, Informative)
1. Take a software inventory. Figure out what is installed where, and which license codes/CD keys are being used.
2. Pull records. We get a lot of our PCs pre-loaded with MS apps and Acrobat. Those OEM installs stay with the machines, though many places try to move them forward from machine to machine (thus creating the impression that "we must have bought it sometime").
3. Check online sites, like Microsoft's eOpen site, or contact specific vendors (e.g., call Autodesk or your VAR) and ask them to send you a summary of your current licenses.
4. Document your level of usage against your level of compliance. Include all costs for becoming compliant. Be sure to include one time costs (e.g., buying additional seats) and any recurring costs (e.g., maintenance, back maintenance, reinstatement fees).
5. Educate management that software is licensed, not purchased.
6. Include information regarding the legal liability related to pirated software. Include references to any cases you can find, including actual fines, as well as potential fines (caps). Note the reputational risk to the company as well.
7. Prepare a plan for bringing the company into compliance. Include possible stop-gap measures and alternatives (e.g., limiting the number of users with a specific pieces of software, buying one additional license per year, using OpenOffice).
8. Compile everything into a well-documented report/memo (depending on your company's preferred style), and be sure to present it personally (don't just email it off). Offer to meet at another time, if necessary, but you must make it clear how important this is. Offer to meet with the entire management team. Communicate, communicate, communicate.
9. Let management know you don't plan on blowing the whistle (they'll surely say "nobody knows, so we're fine"), but make them aware that any disgruntled employee could make a call in to the piracy hotline. If you have the intestinal fortitude to do so, you could even make it clear (if it reflects your beliefs) that you value your integrity and that you cannot, in good conscience, help the company steal software/violate contract terms. Of course, that means you need to be ready to put up or shut up.
All that being well and good, you can take some practical steps to start getting things into compliance going forward:
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Welcome to the real world (Score:4, Insightful)
Most small businesses have a hard time dealing with software licensing. Any money that they have to spend on software is less money for them to spend on other things like employee salaries, power bills to keep the lights on, toner for the printers, etc. It sounds to me like the OP has already shot himself in the foot by bringing it up to management.
If pirated software really bothers you then find another job (good luck with that in this market). However ratting your employer out to the BSA is a dickhead move. Whether you like it or not, they are currently paying your salary, and the salary of at least 20 other people. The odds of them getting audited for license compliance are just about zero, unless someone rats them out.
I'd take a long hard look at the situation. There isn't an easy answer. Either you rat out your employer and impose significant costs and lost productivity on a company in a struggling economy, or you live with being a thief for a while until you can find another job. If I were in that situation, I'd just suck it up and start looking for another job. I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if Microsoft loses out on the licensing revenue for 19 copies of Office. And I certainly wouldn't torpedo a company that is providing employment to my community just so that the BSA and Microsoft can earn a couple thousand dollars.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I see you are from "don't snitch" school of thought. Well, that is a dumbass move. The company would gladly slit his throat and throw him to the BSA if they thought it would protect themselves, and you know it. He owes them nothing.
Personally, I hope you get to be on the receiving end of the negative side of "don't snitch".
It's only piracy when someone else does it! (Score:4, Insightful)
A trip down memory lane:
"Selling games is strictly self-serving also. Apparently, you think its fantastic for companies to be driven by greed, but the customers should be selfless? Same old shit as the banks - capitalise the profit, socialise the loss."
(damburger 24 Oct Score: 5)
"In what you gave as an analogy, the hypothetical person STOLE food from the restaurant- the restaurant is out the food and drink the person took by not paying. In the case of infringement, someone merely takes a copy thereof- and nobody's out anything save maybe a cash transaction that might or might not have happened. They're not out their original copy, so it's not theft."
(Svartalk 24 Oct Score: 5)
"If I copy something that an artist produced, it doesn't cost that artist either time or effort. The time and effort has already been spent, they have no way of getting it back.
The only possibility is that they might get payment in compensation for it. As long as anything I do does not affect their chance of getting this compensation, I see no possible way in which it can be immoral. Therefore, as long as I can be sure that I am not going to pay for a copy, I see no way that making my own copy is immoral."
(julesh 24 Oct Score: 4)
"Yeah just like getting bit by an ant 'hurts' me, but not really. It's just an ant. Nothing to have a hissy-fit over like IRAA and the BSA seem to be having.
BSA: 'Oh noes! We've been bit an ant. The end is nigh'
US: 'Stop being a wuss.'"
(commodore64_love 12 Oct Score: 4)
I think what's going on here is most people see business purchases of commercial software as a way to justify their own piracy, like this person:
"Through college I had the full version of Matlab/Simulink. I used toolboxes that the school didn't have when doing class projects. I learned everything I could about it and the toolboxes available.
Now, 6 years later, I was able to talk my boss into buying a few extra special toolboxes for the work we do. Something close to $30k a seat a year. Had I never 'pirated' all that software I would have never been able to sell my self to my company, nor sell my company on Matlab toolboxes."
(0100010001010011 12 Oct Score: 4)
Blackmail (Score:3, Funny)
Too Late (Score:4, Informative)
It sounds clear they're not going to change business practices. There's always reporting them to the BSE or some other software piracy watchdog then going through a very painful (from what I hear) audit. You've already made known pirated software bothers you and if all of a sudden a watchdog group shows at your door with a warrant or whatever they use... You're screwed as far as continuing with this company. Likely you'll be fired for some unrelated subjective cause.
You can shut-up and look the other way or you can leave and report them. You cannot force them to change, you cannot report them and stay. Do your own math...
-[d]-
Run, for more than the obvious reasons. (Score:3, Insightful)
Begin looking for another job as soon as possible. Document your communications with your manager and attempts to get them to go legit. But leave as soon as possible.
The reason is simple: a company who believes it is okay to do what they're doing is not going to appreciate what YOU do. Your raises will never be good, the respect you garner from upper level management will be negligible, and you will always be treated as a second class citizen that is there only because the world requires it. The companies that do what you're describing are those who view technology as a "necessary evil" and "money sink" rather than the enabler it should be.
Had the same issue at a very large company. (Score:3, Interesting)
I sent an email to the person who should have been in charge and was greeted in much the same way. We had placed a 'free' evaluation copy of winzip in our corporate image and built it out on literally thousands of machines. after being told to 'shut-up' I covered my a$$ with a dated email and then from the public library dropped the BSA and win-zip/niko-mak BOTH an email detailing the issue. The company settled with both for a LARGE payment and cleaned the desktop image of any 'grey-ware' that was free for NON-COMMERCIAL use. Unless you are in a position to be held responsible I'd recommend just doing NOTHING, safer career wise in the long run...
Contact the BSA AFTER you secure other employment (Score:5, Insightful)
The ethical thing to do at this stage in the game is to drop a dime on'em. The sensible thing to do is to ensure that you still have an income afterwards. Count on the boss finding out and retaliating; whether that is illegal or not, factor that into your plans.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You mean, somebody's likely to start a religion around his company?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Contact the BSA & request an audit (Score:5, Informative)
Yep, do it. Take the money as a little reward for dong the right thing..
What will happen to the company is: Microsoft will send a letter to the CEO informing him that they will be performing an audit, that they are entitled to do as he is running some form of Microsoft software (I doubt they need to check that's true). Then they will tell him that he needs to run audit software in the company and send the results to MS, and that they know of a few companies who will perform this audit for a reasonable fee, and no, running it all yourself of not acceptable.
Once he's done that, they will check how many licences they think the company needs to become 'compliant' and demand proof they have that many purchased. At this point, they also offer to bill for unlicenced software that accidentally or mistakenly was installed.
End result: the company pays to audit itself, and pays MS for a load of licences. Usually they end up paying extra for things people have installed but never use any more.
They're quite nice about it, if that help any.
Re:Contact the BSA & request an audit (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't work quite like this. Microsoft has no more right to demand an audit of your systems than you do of their systems. They can only demand an audit if you've already agreed to do so in a licensing agreement you consented to. Generally, if you get a corporate site license or possibly other volume licensing from MS, you have agreed to on demand audits. If all the MS software you have came with the machines (like Windows and often Office) or you bought shrinkwrap versions, you don't have to agree to anything unless they have a court order.
-ec
Re:Contact the BSA & request an audit (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)