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GNOME 3 Delayed Until September 2010

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the ready-when-it's-ready dept.

GUI 419

supersloshy writes "Contrary to popular opinion, GNOME 3 will not be released in March next year. It has been delayed until September 2010, six months later. According to the news message, this is because 'our community wants GNOME 3.0 to be fully working for users and why we believe September is more appropriate.' GNOME 3's main goal is to re-define the ways people interact with the desktop, mainly through a new UI design (currently called 'GNOME Shell'), while GNOME 2.30, set for release in March, will have a focus on being stable. An early visual tour of GNOME 3 has been posted at Digitizor."

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And yet.. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095588)

nobody cares.

Re:And yet.. (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095606)

+1 Insightful

Leave well alone! (4, Insightful)

Smivs (1197859) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096180)

nobody cares.

Nobody except the millions of people like me who use Gnome. The current version is near-perfect and the new one seems to have lost all the good points and added nothing. OK, all the desktops on screen at once could be useful once in a while, but WTF! If it ain't broke (and it ain't), don't "fix" it.

To the tune of "hi ho, hi ho" (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096238)

No show, no show,
Gnome's just like a cheap ho!
Promise a lot, insides all shot,
You'll catch mono!

No show, no show,
To KDE I go!
Looks up to date, not fugly, mate,
Like gnome, you know ...

... or this chant ...

Gimme a "G"!
"GEE !"
Gimme an "N"!
"ENNN !"
Gimme an "O"!
"OWE !"
Gimme an "M"!
"EMMM !"
Gimme an "E"!
"EEEE !"
What's that spell?
"GNOME'S NO OPTION, MUST EVADE!"
"Huh? It's not dead."
"Sure it is mate."
"It's not. It's ... it's pining for the fjords, it is!"

Seriously, I hope they achieve what they want, but they're going to be MIA for a full year ...most distros will have shipped at least one version with an even more advanced KDE on them by then.

KDE 4! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095590)

This is your chance buddy. Shine on !

...this is because...and why... (5, Funny)

anglophobe_0 (1383785) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095592)

for POST in $(cat slashdot); do
beGrammarNazi $POST
done

I couldn't resist.

taking the time to get it right (0, Flamebait)

anarking (34854) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095598)

is a badge of honor and a sound development strategy, one M$ doesn't care to follow. hence that great difference between open-source and $$ driven.

Re:taking the time to get it right (1, Insightful)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095614)

Um... taking time doesn't necessarily mean it gets done right.

See Also: Windows Vista

Re:taking the time to get it right (5, Insightful)

Afforess (1310263) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095622)

That isn't true. Blizzard rarely releases a game on time, they are of the up-most quality, and they are money driven.

I'm glad that we can make such broad sweeping generalizations these days, that Microsoft now represents the entire private sector.

Re:taking the time to get it right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095688)

Yes, but Blizzard is a games company with an excellent reputation of making good quality games.
GNOME is just a simple free software organization with low founds and their desktop environments lack of usability and improvements.

Re:taking the time to get it right (1)

DMiax (915735) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095844)

It's not like Microsoft never screwed an announced timeline either... Maybe it's just me but delays seem to have little correlation with the final quality.

Re:taking the time to get it right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30096014)

they are of the up-most quality

Indeed. You might almost say they're of "utmost" quality.

Re:taking the time to get it right (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095650)

Seriously? Shut up.

Gnome is for gniggers (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095600)

Gnome 2 has een out since 2002, almost as long as windows xp, and they messed up nautilus twice, plus all sorts of other tricks.

Screw it, just install Windows 7 already, and take a shower.

Who to blame for the delay? (1)

cjfs (1253208) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095618)

Looks like ice cream, Batman, and football [gnome.org] are the culprits.

Re:Who to blame for the delay? (-1, Troll)

XanC (644172) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095620)

Actually it was soccer.

Re:Who to blame for the delay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095648)

Ah, I knew it was up to something. First it steals footballs identity, now it delays Gnome...

KDE 4! (0, Redundant)

samsonian (1669420) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095626)

this is your chance buddy! Shine on.

How can xterm be improved? (5, Insightful)

SpaghettiPattern (609814) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095628)

All GUI experiences I had always were some combination of stuff that's around since ages. Artistic freedom in CS is at its best when it is heavily curbed. Hell, saving your document in MS Word has become an art form. Even my Mac, which allegedly comes with the most wonderful GUI on the planet, drives me up the wall. All I want and all we need is Firefox, Eclipse, a terminal and Openoffice and plain and simple menus with it. Anything else just plain and simple. Brothers unite and let's get back to the roots. I say "No more rotating, sliding, enlarging, diminishing menus!" Saving a document is best done using a simple key sequence :w

Re:How can xterm be improved? (3, Insightful)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095652)

Its hard to know when to stop. Windows has been done. This is evidenced by the two most recent versions which don't actually do anything more than XP. It may be the same with gnome. This happens all the time, and not just in software.

There is always FVWM for me. That will never change.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095702)

Vista/win7 actually made one seemingly minor but actually huge improvement. They killed the start menu. Though they later killed the quick start toolbar which i put back myself, no idea wtf they were thinking there. Anyways!

In vista/7 to open Firefox I:
Click the windows button.
push the f key
hit enter.

For word instead of f i hit wo. Hamachi I hit h. WMP classic I hit c.

It is so efficient and easy I don't actually need anything within the start menu itself. With explorer notepad++ and FF pinned to the start menu (Generally I don't like the new mac ripoff so I have titles not just icons) and 6 things in quick start...

Linux needs this. Also, I'd suggest a one click entry to terminal that acts much the same way, something like an always running terminal. When you click you are ready to type your command and it drops down the screen of shit you've done recently. Fast, simple, clean. We definitely don't need so much shit popping up whenever we want to do anything... including look at what stuff we have open. I can occasionally remember what I have open but when you are booted up for a month or two and use 4~6 desktops having to check would get old real fucking fast... also, clicking is faster than alt+tabbing a good portion of the time...

Re:How can xterm be improved? (5, Interesting)

XanC (644172) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095730)

You're looking for Yakuake [kde-apps.org] . It's just like Quake: hit the tilde and a command console drops down from the top.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095768)

Oh I know they are out there its linux. I meant they should be standard in gnome/ubuntu since it is becoming THE desktop of choice.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (2, Insightful)

Mixel (723232) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096090)

Guake [wikipedia.org] is available in Gnome

Re:How can xterm be improved? (1)

joelholdsworth (1095165) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096116)

I meant they should be standard in gnome/ubuntu since it is becoming THE desktop of choice.

It's getting popular precisely because it tries to make the desktop more GUI centric and less terminal centric. Most users (rightly or wrongly) find the terminal unintuitive and intimidating, which is why if Ubuntu wants to grow it can only do so by doing the exact opposite of what you're suggesting.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (1)

chammy (1096007) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096248)

Alt-F2 can be used in Gnome to run applications. It comes with autocomplete, among other things. I can't say how useful it is in day-to-day use but when I come across a system without dmenu and the like installed, I find it's a nice key combo to know.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (4, Informative)

ceeam (39911) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095978)

You're looking for Katapult. And you know what - that was probably the first (or one of the first) apps of such kind.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (5, Informative)

Daniel Weis (1209058) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095736)

Try GNOME Do [davebsd.com] .

The "Docky" frontend is a fantastic dock experience as well.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095828)

Mono is a cancer.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095896)

That's right, just dumb everything down. Using the mouse usually isn't faster than the keyboard. Taking my hands off the keyboard is what slows me down. Ugh. This is the kind of mentality that feeds these moronic decisions.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30096218)

a) You don't have to use the mouse. The windows key works just fine, and then you aren't taking your hands off the computer.
b) I don't care to look up the study right now, so feel free to think I just made it up, but there was a study done that said that most proficient computer users *believed* they were faster using the keyboard, but for the majority of tasks they were actually faster with the mouse (albeit with a very small difference overall).

Re:How can xterm be improved? (3, Informative)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096016)

Linux needs this

Most Linux desktop environments have this. The default in Gnome is to use to pop up a run dialogue, that will autocomplete recently used apps. I configured the same thing in openbox, with lxpanel.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095712)

Congratulations! simply install BlackBox and all your needs are solved.
But for the majority of population, we like pretty GUIs. The fades helps the eye to recognize an interactive object and a fading menu avoids distraction and harmonize the desktop.

The art in the GUIs improves usability and makes the daily computer usage a more satisfying experience.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (1)

jgrahn (181062) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095920)

All I want and all we need is Firefox, Eclipse, a terminal and Openoffice and plain and simple menus with it.

I don't understand your point ... you seem to argue for simplicity and against bloat, but then you mention Eclipse (which according to people who *like* it regularly needs *gigabytes* of RAM) and Openoffice?

Re:How can xterm be improved? (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096024)

He wants his GUI to be simple and his apps bloated, rather than the UI to be bloated and the apps simple?

Most people have an OS to use their apps, rather than as an end to itself. They don't want to spend most of their time tinkering with the O/S - they want to spend their time getting stuff done.

Nowadays the O/S often gets in the way of doing stuff - with the animations and "cool cutscenes" (which impresses noobs, but just slows things down).

I've just proposed something to GNOME to make it more efficient (direct selection of active tasks with key combos), wonder if they'll actually implement it. There's some plans for some "Desktop Context/Activities" thing, but I think that won't be as fast as my suggestion.

Re:How can xterm be improved? (2, Informative)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096110)

1.) Install Gentoo Linux
2.) USE="-alsa -cups -dbus -gstreamer -kde -gnome -mono -opengl" emerge xfce4-meta firefox terminal openoffice eclipse-sdk

I am aware that xfce4-meta contains unneccessary cruft but you should be able to deal with it.

WTH (4, Insightful)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095630)

Gnome3 looks unusable anyways, delay it forever. Go through the early tour and tell me that is more usable. I've no idea wtf they were thinking.

Lose the ability to 1click to open aps. Clock takes a huge chunk of real estate. The aps button is needlessly large and boring text. Opening a common folder takes more time now. This is just my first look at it but still wtf...

Re:WTH (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095656)

Showing what ap you are currently using is not fucking useful at all.
Being able to view all desktops at once while useful is a minor change and could be accessed through a button... like holding alt while dragging a window or some shit.

Feel Like I've Been Punched In The Stomach (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095692)

"Gnome3 looks unusable anyways"

I just switched to Ubuntu 9.10 it has been ok. Very rough, buggy, and unpolished compared to Windows but I really wanted to soldier on.

Seeing this Gnome 3 garbage just makes me want to throw my hands up and go right back to Windows.

Something is very, very wrong with the Gnome developers to have them honestly thinking this fiasco of an effort is going to attract anyone but the most diehard of existing Linux users.

Grow the fuck Gnome devs. No one wants yet another retarded attempt at 'reinventing' the desktop. It's a solved problem. People have work to do with their computers. Gnome 3 is nothing but juvinille wanking.

KDE 4 should be decent by the time GNOME 3 is out (1)

mfearby (1653) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096036)

I was always a KDE man but when version 4 came out GNOME actually looked decent by comparison, which is why I'm still using it today (over a year later). If they go and muck up a near-perfect desktop for the sake of fixing something that ain't broke, then I will be voting with my feet, and returning to KDE.

GNOME should be working to improve things that are still ridiculously complicated, like configuring input devices (reassigning mouse buttons for weird devices, etc) and improving Nautilus (which hasn't had any love for years). For general GTK apps, things like Evolution could do with less "mac-like dictatorship" and allowing users to minimise it to the tray, and to return to the Inbox when deleting a message. These simple things that some Nazi has decided people shouldn't be allowed to do is what makes people dismiss Linux and stick with their Windows or Macs.

Re:Feel Like I've Been Punched In The Stomach (2, Insightful)

fnj (64210) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096148)

Yep. Gnome 3 is a mental disorder. It's what happens when you spend all your time dreaming about how to come up with a new UI paradigm when there is already a highly satisfactory, perfectly usable, and well accepted paradigm that has stood the test of time, and that no one is complaining about. It is new for the sake of new. Kde 4 was much the same thing, but at least they optimized their infrastructure and cleaned up some rough edges in the process (while hopelessly screwing up some basic stuff).

Despair not, however. There is still Xfce, and it shows no sign of succumbing to a mental disorder.

Re:Feel Like I've Been Punched In The Stomach (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096186)

I just switched to Ubuntu 9.10 it has been ok. Very rough, buggy, and unpolished compared to Windows but I really wanted to soldier on.

Gnome is just fine -- certainly better than Windows Vusta/7. Just switch to any other theme/color scheme.

Re:WTH (3, Insightful)

Clovert Agent (87154) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095794)

Some of it's just a big mental jump, and I think I could get used to it, especially if some of the appearance and behaviour can be customised.

One thing grabbed me right away, though. The idea of slightly minimising the desktop while I'm working with the menu is interesting. But in the examples, look how every item in the menu is truncated. It's all "Home..." and "OpenO..." and "Docu..."

That alone would drive me crazy. If nothing fits in your menus, then your menus are badly designed. If there isn't a option to show just a list, instead of a grid of too-large icons with ellipses everywhere, it's definitely a no for me. Might seem trivial, but I'm going to be looking at that annoyance a LOT.

Re:WTH (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095816)

Well TBH i think the truncated names will be fixed it is quite beta... but the idea of having my whole desktop contort when I go to change between aps or open something or look for something or... looks annoying as hell. It'd probably be less annoying if the whole screen went black. If I'm opening something from the menu I don't know why I'd even need to see my desktop...

Re:WTH (5, Insightful)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095842)

I respect that they're aiming for stability (quite different from what KDE did), but I'm not sure I like the direction their UI is going. I'll probably hop to KDE or LXDE.

Re:WTH (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30096192)

KDE feels largely like a shadow of its former self at this point.

Back in the 3.x series, KDE was my favorite desktop environment. It was fast, intuitive, and entirely configurable. I preferred it gnome at that point. It just seemed better developed.

Then 4.0 was released. What a disaster. It had fewer features than the 3.x series, and was filled with significantly more bugs. Even things like the desktop were broken - all for the sake of a few cool-looking but generally not that important desktop widgets. The file manager was replaced with dolphin, which was also inferior to its predecessor. Some simple things like right clicking on a file now behave completely differently depending on whether you are using the file manager or the destop (like unzipping files).

Apparently, the 4.0 release wasn't intended for users who wanted a stable, full-featured desktop. This is fine, but then don't call it 4.0, give it a name like 4.0alpha, and don't go marketing it around like it is ready for use. The distributions all shipped it when they shouldn't have. Even in 4.3, kde is still playing catch up to the 3.x - it just doesn't seem like it's worth waiting anymore.

On top of all this, some of the key desktop apps, like the music player amarok, decided to 'follow in its footsteps' and do major rewrites as well. Do a search on google for 'amarok 2.0' and you can see how that turned out.

I sincerely hope that gnome doesn't make the same mistakes. I know as a developer its always tempting to redo major components so that you get the 'wow' factor, but I think that is probably frequently done to the detriment of the users.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't, eh? (5, Insightful)

jbn-o (555068) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095894)

Maybe they're trying to innovate and do something new and different. I don't share your doubts but if I did, I would rather give them the benefit of any doubt then criticize before I had even tried the software. It seems to me that they're in a tough spot: do what UIs have been doing for a long time and get accused of copying rather than doing something new, or do something new and get bad word from people who reject the free software out of hand at their "first look".

Re:Damned if they do, damned if they don't, eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095940)

Why not fix the problems they have and just leave well enough alone? I mean there are three separate options for unmounting my iPod in GNOME 2.28. WTF?

Re:WTH (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30096008)

Someone needs to take all GUI designers, put them into a room and fill it with nervous gas. Sure, people will call us monsters and whatnot. But someone has to save the world.
I think they get up in the morning and think: "How could I make our user interface gayer and more difficult to use?"
"Oh, I know, I will remove icons from the desktop"
"And you know, what use is a start menu where everything can be easily accessed?"
"And who would want to have more than one app running at the same time? The taskbar is useless. I think I will replace program names with immense icons drawn by my retarded siblings"
"A menu? This isn't even a restaurant and I have a lot of retarded drawings left to use."

Re:WTH (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096018)

It appears they are trying to unify everything into a more task centric "start menu" like experience. This in itself is not a bad thing as Windows and particularly Windows 7 have used a start menu for ages and it is a fairly well understood concept. It also works very well in W7 when combined with Aero preview panes and suchlike. GNOME has used two bars in the past (one at the top and one at the bottom) to accomplish the same and there really isn't any need to. The question is whether they are going to release some wannabe Windows 7 experience or actually produce something useful in its own right. Past GNOMEs have struck a happy balance producing a pleasing usable desktop without going full retard and cutting features that most advanced users need.

On the point of the tour, it seems to be demonstrating just the shell, not the file explorer or other apps. This may explain why it looks so spartan. I expect the real thing would have icons, spatial windows and all the other business you would expect from a modern desktop. My biggest concern with the shell is I like seeing all my running apps in a task bar or similar. The shell seems to be only showing one app at a time. I would consider it a major regression (almost as bad as multifinder) if I have to click on something, or even mouse into a corner to find out what I'm running.

Re:WTH (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096222)

Start menu in windows 7 is a button you hit to bring up the text box where you type in the first 2 letters of whatever app you need. Since I've switched to win7 I haven't really used the actual start menu itself more than a handful of times.

Also windows7 moves away from the startbar, it has a mac like launcherbar thing and Quick launch... plus you can add your own toolbars.
Also it still has the currently open apps displayed on the screen... not in a start bar.

And it is bad, you add a click and time to every single action simply to make the screen a bit cleaner (without saving much screen space btw).

Re:WTH (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30096042)

When they said "redefine how users interact" they meant "this will make sure everyone switches to KDE".

Does it still let you have moveable, resizeable windows on your screen or did they decide that is too confusing for people?

Re:WTH (4, Insightful)

fnj (64210) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096184)

Oh, for Pete's sake. That's unbelievably lame. If you lose single-click-to-open capability, then it's a huge step backward and a crock. Double click is an abomination. It BARELY had some feeble justification when there was only a single mouse button, but it's a complete crock in the real world of 2 or more buttons.

If it takes even longer to open a folder than current Gnome, that's just unacceptable. Compare navigating folders containing thousands of files using the Gnome file-open dialog now, against the Kde file-open dialog. It's night and day. The Kde version is faster when you first hit such a folder, and then it caches the contents and is blazing fast after that. Night and day.

Time to branch at 2.28 and maintain a sane alternative.

GNOME Shell == Clusterfuck (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095632)

Do we laugh or cry? It's like KDE and Gnome are in some sort of frantic struggle for who can botch desktop Linux the most.

I hope some commercial company like Google puts grownups to work like they did with Android on some replacement for these two basketcase projects.

Re:GNOME Shell == Clusterfuck (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30096104)

It is a major ongoing failure. The problem with relying on people that are motivated by their inspiration is that you tend not to get "normal." You have to pay people to work on "normal". Refining and polishing is not fun. Inventing your own bespoke miracle from whole cloth and taking it no more than 10% of the way to functional before you lose interest and wander off is infinitely more fun.

There are some amazing products among the Gnome and KDE collections. Amarok, kate, konsole, k3b, etc. Individually these are nice programs.

KDE 4 is and ongoing failure. I haven't bothered to get my hands on 4.3 yet because 4.0, 4.1 and 4.2 killed all hope. They haven't had the 5 years it's going to take to fix what's wrong with 4.x. I'm sticking with 3.5.x until that interval has passed.

Gnome is still plagued by Nautilus [1]. Dolphin appears to have a point, although pursuing it at the expense of a real file manager is another fail. The vast collection of background services sucking down hundreds of MB of RAM doing who the hell knows what is also on-going and ever worsening problem.

Both systems pollute home directories with vast file hierarchies hidden in dot-file directories making a shared NFS home a practical impossibility. You'd think they were being paid by the dot-file. No one in either group seems to realize why this isn't desirable. It doesn't even occur to them that it might not be!

[1] Just boot XP and clone Windows Explorer, mkay...? A badly done clone of Explorer would trump anything Gnome/KDE has produced to date wrt file management. And remember kids, detail/list view is, if not pretty, absolutely fucking critical; alphabets replaced pictographs for a reason.

New Gnome? (3, Informative)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095638)

80% percent of the tour looks like stuff in the current gnome. I mean we already have a NetworkManager and you already get a calendar when you click on the clock.

Virtual desktops get more recognition. The UI is more modal and Mac like. So what if their default configuration has just the one panel? Thats how I configure it anyway.

Problems on the horizon for Gnome 3! (3, Interesting)

Akir (878284) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095640)

Yeah, lots of people will be in an uproar! There are millions of problems with Gnome 3! For starters, it won't be enough like KDE 3, so everyone will think it's broken when there's really no problems with it!

I see... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095662)

So it still looks like crap...

Fire the whole team (3, Funny)

boudie2 (1134233) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095682)

Until then the Gnome developers can just keep using their Apple laptops running OS X, as that seems to be all they ever to write about. Makes me wonder if they even use Gnome. In the meantime, I'll be sticking to Fluxbox. While they keep making things for Joe Average (who won't use Linux).

Good decision (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095708)

Well done! Many times open-source projects compromise on quality (usually on features rather than stability) to make sure they make it on the scheduled release cycle. Often this is not possible, and it should be acknowledged.

For example, one particular Ubuntu release (thankfully only one), was released too early, according to me. I considered it a disaster, even though almost everything worked. A delay is always better than a bad release.

Thank you, guys at GNOME, for reinforcing your commitment to making GNOME 3 a better experience and not a let down. I hope that everyone will appreciate that this delay is better for GNOME in the long run in terms of how much people believe the claims for future releases and the quality it produces.

Remember, no one believes Mark Shuttleworth when he says that "X.YZ" release will have a new look (Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty, Karmic have all had those promises made). At least we know we'll get all those awesome features in GNOME, even if it means waiting for six months more.

As long as it dont gets mono infested. (-1, Flamebait)

miffo.swe (547642) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095770)

The only thing i really care for is that gnome doesn't get Mono infested. If Gnome 3 becomes a push for getting mono stuff into gnome i will drop it like a poisonous snake no matter what. Thankfully LXDE, XFCE and KDE is getting really good these days so a switch to something non mono wont be a problem.

Re:As long as it dont gets mono infested. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095810)

http://mono-project.com/OpenSUSE_Build_Service
according to that page, Gnome Do uses mono
look under the "Desktop Applications" section

Re:As long as it dont gets mono infested. (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096084)

Between mono and this [gnome.org] you may just want to start switching early.

Well, it wasn't broke, (1)

MrMista_B (891430) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095776)

and they sure didn't fix it.

Glad it's delayed. It's rubbish. (4, Insightful)

thaig (415462) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095780)

This isn't what I'm missing in Gnome. I'm missing desktop sharing and conferencing software like Livemeeting. I'm also missing some ease-of-use dealing with very simple things like cutting and pasting a link to a windows share and using it to look at a remote directory without having to edit all the slashes.

Instead, some *person* for want of a better word, thinks I need to have yet another new way to select the same applications, wants to "improve" (i.e. remove the choice from) the task list to be *more* application-centric (so retrograde it's laughable).. What a waste of time. What about an Object-Oriented or task-oriented desktop? How about some *actual* innovation? Being force-fed this kind of thing is pretty unpleasant;.

Re:Glad it's delayed. It's rubbish. (5, Insightful)

rocketpants (1095431) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095866)

Being force-fed this kind of thing is pretty unpleasant

If the was Microsoft, and you didn't know better, then perhaps it's fair to say you are being "force fed" this change. However, this is OSS, and nobody is forcing you to use Gnome Shell. You have options: stick with Gnome 2.x, use XFCE, KDE or any of the other window managers available. Just stop whinging about how you don't like it.

Re:Glad it's delayed. It's rubbish. (5, Insightful)

thaig (415462) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095902)

Why is this a preview if they don't want people to say what they think?

You really aren't going to help F/OSS by calling people whingers - it's a kind of whinging in itself.

Re:Glad it's delayed. It's rubbish. (1)

rocketpants (1095431) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095944)

It's fine to offer constructive criticism, and you started out well. However it's difficult to find anything that could be construed as constructive in your second paragraph:

"some *person* for want of a better word"
"So retrograde it's laughable"
"What a waste of time"
"Being force-fed..."

Re:Glad it's delayed. It's rubbish. (3, Insightful)

vagabond_gr (762469) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095960)

I'm also missing some ease-of-use dealing with very simple things like cutting and pasting a link to a windows share and using it to look at a remote directory without having to edit all the slashes.

If gnome (and linux in general) wants to escape the geek-in-a-basement marketshare, it has to focus on the average non-tech user. And no, pasting a link to a windows share is not what this user does.

Instead, this user is interested in finding "that god-damn file" that he saved somewhere yesterday morning and has no idea where it is. He doesn't organize his files, he doesn't care about file hierarchies, he just wants his file. He also wants to easily find that openoffice window that got lost in the 20 windows he opened and never closed in the last hour. Believe it or not, no desktop environment makes it really easy to do such basic stuff.

IMHO Gnome Shell and Zeitgeist [gnome.org] is a step in the right direction for the average user.

Go Fuck Yourself (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095988)

Every time I think the open source world has finally grown the fuck up and is ready to put the hard work into creating a commercial grade desktop and application experience I am reminded that the community and forums are filled with clowns like you.

Enjoy your irrelevant 1 percent marketshare dipshit. Basic desktop and application use is a SOLVED PROBLEMS idiot. No one gives a fuck about the latest retarded attempt by the mind boggling incompetent dumbfucks working on Gnome. Our grandmas, parents, children are webbrowsing, emailing, sharing pictures every day on operating systems created by grownups.

The stupid fucks working on Gnome need to grow the fuck up and get their shit together. That means put the hard and unglamorous work into providing an desktop experience as seamless and polished as Microsoft and Apple do right now.

That means sitting their asses down in front of their computers and putting 40+ hours a week into shitty and unrewarding bug fixes and finishing the hundreds of half-assed features implemented in Gnome right now.

Re:Go Fuck Yourself (3, Funny)

vagabond_gr (762469) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096188)

Thanks for your deep insights, I am now convinced that the Gnome people should listen to anonymous trolls like you to make their decisions.

Re:Glad it's delayed. It's rubbish. (4, Insightful)

Arker (91948) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096096)

Make a system any idiot can use and only idiots will use it.

Re:Glad it's delayed. It's rubbish. (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096232)

So you are saying to the non geek modifying links to support windows instead of linux is easier than just pasting it? Do tell...

Alignes nicely with Ubuntu LTS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095804)

This works really well with Ubuntu's planned LTS release. The 10.04 release will focus on stability, and probably wouldn't have adopted any of the new Gnome features anyways. This supports Mark Shuttleworth's idea that projects should align their release cycles.

suddenoutbreakofcommonsense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095812)

I kinda hope allot of open source projects can start making wise decisions like this.

Don't really care for it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095814)

Though I haven't used it yet, I must say I don't really like what I see. It seems like they're moving towards more context based menus and I really dislike that direction. I'm already not terribly happy with some of the dumbing down GNOME has done for the 2.28 release. Some of those things seem to mimic the Vista not-so-start menu and they seem to smack of a ribbon based UI. I've been using GNOME for years now, but I may have to switch to something else soon. Not a terribly big KDE fan either so I'm not sure where to go yet. That being said, I'll give it a try before I dump it, but as it stands it doesn't look great. It looks like a move backwards in usability.

Not going to comment about the actual product... (3, Interesting)

asaz989 (901134) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095862)

...but from an Ubuntu scheduling perspective this sounds like good news. The last thing Ubuntu needs for its next LTS release (10.04) is a big new jump to GNOME 3. It'll be nice to have an LTS that will let less bleeding-edge users wait until GNOME 3 has a year and a half of polish, integration, and (most importantly) actual user feedback to upgrade, while still retaining full support

Plus, it'll be just plain interesting to see how Mark Shuttleworth reacts to this frankly rather iffy-looking overhaul. (Oh well, so much for not commenting about it.) Although let's be nice - the screenshots in the link seem to be design mockups, while in the actual screencasts they seem to have solved the billions-of-elipses problem.

Who needs GNOME when Windows is affordable (-1, Troll)

postmortem (906676) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095882)

... and Windows is platform where most OSS/FS is actually being used.

GNOME is objectively in the eyes of users not as good as Windows. Windows has set bar very high (in a sense of difficulty to capture the market) where honestly any free low budget effort has no chance to fight.

As long as most of OSS stuff is available on Windows, people will keep taking best of both worlds, and there's no space for GNOME or KDE.

(For these quick on troll points, don't be troll if your opinion differs)

Re:Who needs GNOME when Windows is affordable (-1, Flamebait)

coaxial (28297) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095928)

As long as most of OSS stuff is available on Windows, people will keep taking best of both worlds, and there's no space for GNOME or KDE.

Only most F/OSS stuff ISN'T available on Windows. Now if you were talking about MacOSX, then you'd have a point. Afterall, Macs are just Unix machines. And anyway, Macs are way easier and safer than Windows machines. Oh and their Unix! If you really want the best both worlds, you get a mac.

Re:Who needs GNOME when Windows is affordable (3, Interesting)

dokebi (624663) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095950)

Yeah, yeah. Windows control 99.99% of germs, I mean desktop computers.

I've been freed from Windows for about 4 years now, and there is no way in hell i am going back. I barely tolerate it on my netbook (hardware driver issues), and I install linux on all of my other machines now for these reasons:
1. I spend 95% of my non-work computing time in Firefox.
2. I spend 95% of my work computing time in Firefox and Eclipse.
3. The other 8%, there are linux software for those.
4. I use Virtualbox for the 2% of the time I _need_ Windows.

In return for not using Windows, I gain:
1. I don't worry about firewalls, or anti-virus software.
2. Complete incremental backup of computer to network drive, usb drive, whatever.
3. nfs, and sshfs. They really are awesome. Windows/mac users don't even know what they are missing.

And most importantly:
4. New OS every few months, FREE. FOREVER..

Re:Who needs GNOME when Windows is affordable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30096124)

what the fuck do you do for work? moderate a web forum? if i could spend 95% of my work time in a fucking web browser i'd think of myself as one lucky chump -- and then i'd spend it doing something else anyway to avoid people like you.

Re:Who needs GNOME when Windows is affordable (3, Insightful)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096158)

3. nfs, and sshfs. They really are awesome. Windows/mac users don't even know what they are missing.

You are aware that OS X natively supports NFS and MacFUSE works exactly like Linux FUSE?

just kill gnome 3, please (3, Insightful)

Mister Blonde (589948) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095932)

Lack of taskbar makes it unusable.. Ubuntu remix way is so much better than this.. so gnome people.. please stop working on useless stuff like gnome 3. I was considering giving some money to the foundation but when i see where they're heading to.. no thanks.

What GNOME really needs (2, Interesting)

salarelv (1314017) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095936)

What GNOME really needs (in my mind): * better dual screen support * customizable virtual desktops (different layouts for work, entertainment etc) - would be cool if the second display could be one virtual desktop * fixed theme management (everything should be configured from one place) * "run as root" in the menu under right mouse click * "open terminal in current location" * better drag&drop * better networking configuration (usb and bluetooth modems) - like to see why something isn't working. etc gnome doesn't need new menus..these are already great. maybe a search bar for programs in the application menu. like in win7 and mac

Re:What GNOME really needs (2, Insightful)

westyvw (653833) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095946)

I have many problems with gnome as well, but several of the things you mentioned are available now. But the menus do need to be more configurable. I am annoyed that everything has to be so damn big. And they could use to get single clicking right, which only KDE ever pulled of effectively.

Re:What GNOME really needs (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096244)

I think all of these are good ideas!
Also ... related to ""run as root" in the menu under right mouse click" I think it'd be nice if when you tried to do something that needed root but you weren't root it should popup asking for your password ALL THE TIME... It does it for some things atm but not everything. I've no idea why that isn't more normalized.

Well at Least... (2, Insightful)

coaxial (28297) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095952)

it looks like GNOME is now copying MacOSX instead of Windows *eye roll*.

At least now their copying something that at least works, but still, they're copying, and thus ensuring that they are always playing catchup, and creating an inferior product. This is not a new problem, and has been talked about repeated on /. 2005 [slashdot.org] , 2006 [slashdot.org] , and even last June [slashdot.org] . With the notable exception of Firefox, there hasn't been anything original, innovative, and well good from the F/OSS community, which is very disturbing.

Hell, read some CHI, USENIX, and SIGIR papers people! Stop making a poor facsimile of two years, and start making the next five. Ask yourself, why the hell is Wave coming from Google, instead of us?

Re:Well at Least... (2, Insightful)

howlingmadhowie (943150) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095974)

i thought wave is foss. you don't stop developing foss just because you work for a company.

Re:Well at Least... (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096094)

it looks like GNOME is now copying MacOSX instead of Windows *eye roll*.

Now copying? How long do you think the current ordering of Cancel/OK buttons in GNOME had been there for?

Re:Well at Least... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30096118)

No innovation in FOSS? Dude you missed KDE4? It has so much innovation people are howling at it for it. Take a step back, and look at the entire picture, take in everything from stupid facebook integrating widgets (optional) to an integrated personal information data- and meta-database for contacts, bookmarks, and the last I saw, plans for integrating the backend of the rss reader.

Also, look at the timeline when all this started, out in the open. Remember, if you see someone planning on something, but not having enough resources to implement it as quickly as you, doesn't make _you_ the innovator.

No innovation? IMO windows 7 copies several features of KDE4. Badly.

Re:Well at Least... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30096156)

lol

because windows 7 is as unstable and full of unuseable shit, and as ugly, as kde4. don't get me wrong, i don't even *use* windows 7 much and when i install linux i always seem to end up back at kde because gnome is even uglier and i've never got on with xfce, but trying to say windows 7 "badly" copies elements of kde is lunacy.

Re:Well at Least... (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096254)

Tons of unique things come from the FOSS ppl ... they just don't make it mainstream until other people have it. BTW try running KDE and you'll see a shit ton of next 5 years stuff. Some of it might catch on some won't but a lot of it is new and innovative.

yes! f4. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095982)

volume of NetBSD fi8st organization Areao. It is the

can I see the ps -AH? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30095986)

If Gnome really wanted to improve they'd organize and minimize.

As long as programs and the logic of them are created as text, a text based system will be the most powerful. All the GUI should be doing is making it easier to use a text-based system. I hate programs that try to pretend there's no configuration files and command line options behind them; this is what gnome programs do with their lack of man pages and plain text configuration files. While I'm at it, there's gotta be a better way to manage settings than gconf. I fucking hate gconf.

Don't tell me (1)

Simon Rowe (1206316) | more than 4 years ago | (#30095998)

... they need to take some more options out.

Reminds me of Amarok 2.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30096012)

Take something very popular that people like, something that works, is highly configurable, and logical, then toss it out the window due to developer vanity. I now use Exaile. Looks like I might not use that much longer because if this is how GNOME is going to work, I'm going to have to switch to something else. Quit taking away options. Seriously.

I've been a Mac user for a while, but (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096058)

Reading about Gnome Shell reminded me somewhat of what the Enlightenment guys were going after with E17, quite a few years ago.

Of course Raster et. al. would work for a while and then decide to start again from scratch, what, three times at least with E17? So maybe Gnome 3 will get there first...

Please fix the window manager (3, Interesting)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096082)

  • I have two applications A and B in different workspaces
  • Drag app A to the same workspace as app B
  • Workspace shows B
  • Click on A in the task bar (window list)
  • Application A minimises. I expect it to come to the front.

I don't need a new look at the desktop!! (1)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096126)

I used to like KDE 3.5 more than Gnome. Now I like Gnome more than KDE 4, because all handy things of the desktop are lost with KDE 4's new way. And now Gnome is also going that route? NOOOOO!

Based on Mono (0, Troll)

trendzetter (777091) | more than 4 years ago | (#30096224)

If the GUI changes aren't controversial enough the fact that it is based on Mono will probably kill it.
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