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Russia Recalls Modern Warfare 2

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the no-you-take-that-back dept.

Censorship 548

eldavojohn writes "You may recall much ado over some questionable footage in the latest Call of Duty game. Well, that footage has led to a recall of Modern Warfare 2 in Russia. Seems the Russian government was none too happy about the portrayal of Russia in the game and decided to yank it from stores. Infinity Ward has responded with a patch that removes the 'No Russian' mission (the content in question) from the storyline. Before you overly criticize the Russian government, there may be some truth to the claim that the game's story line overly demonizes Russians as just terrorists as the Russian site GotPS3.ru alleges. Is cultural sensitivity becoming an overly played card in the gaming world? Not too long ago, Wolfenstein was recalled in Germany for containing Nazi symbols."

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548 comments

eat my shorts slashdot !! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118442)

Eat my shorts slashdot !!

And you too commies !!

Waaaaahh (-1, Flamebait)

Kryptonian Jor-El (970056) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118454)

Oh boo hoo. Russia has a bad history, it should expect criticism

Re:Waaaaahh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118514)

What's with the past-tense? Russia has a bad present.

Re:Waaaaahh (2, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118826)

What does this have to do with history?

If you have played the game, its clear it makes Americans seem as the true, innocent heroes fighting against bad bad Russia. Even after so long after Cold War Americans still have the type of thinking that Russians are The Evil.

The war is started by Makarov's set up, but its clear the whole game romanticizes Americans.

Re:Waaaaahh (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118962)

I've played, but clearly you haven't.

SPOLIERS

Did you completely forget the massive subplot where Col. Shepard was in cahoots with Makarov to initiate the attack on American soil? His motives be damned, towards the end you were fighting hordes of Russian and traitorous US troops.

Re:Waaaaahh (1, Troll)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118964)

but its clear the whole game romanticizes Americans.

Imagine that. You'd almost think the game was written by an American gaming company or something.....

Seriously, who cares? Who cares if the game presents Americans as wholesome apple pie eaters and Russians as murderous baby rapers? Is this really something to get Governments worked up about? Shouldn't the story here be about censorship rather than game content? Make a game that portrays Americans in a negative light and sell it here -- I doubt our Government will feel the need to prevent our people from buying it.

Re:Waaaaahh (1)

iamacat (583406) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118994)

What does this have to do with history?

What indeed? Games are for entertainment and doing precisely the kind of things that would be a bad idea in real life. If you want to blow away Russians, Americans or Iranians, your government has no business keeping you from buying the game. In fact, as a Russian, my curiosity is now piqued. Although I would prefer a politically incorrect title to the tune of Leisure Suite Larry or Duke Nukem.

Re:Waaaaahh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119184)

If you have played the game, its clear it makes Americans seem as the true, innocent heroes fighting against bad bad Russia. Even after so long after Cold War Americans still have the type of thinking that Russians are The Evil.

Evil? Maybe not so much, but they do not act in our interests (nor do we act in theirs), and we don't trust each other.

The war is started by Makarov's set up, but its clear the whole game romanticizes Americans.

Maybe so.. then again the game was developed in the US, by a US company, and while copies will be sold overseas a huge number of units will be sold in... wait for it... the US.

I've got an idea: whoever doesn't like the game shouldn't buy the game nor play the game. Is it really that difficult?

The hell of it is, is that neither Infinity Ward nor Activision will change the game for most other markets, all the while it will sell an assload of units to the same people who are bitching about it. Vote with your Euros and buy something else, you fucking retards!

Not so fast.. (5, Insightful)

tjstork (137384) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118546)

Oh boo hoo. Russia has a bad history, it should expect criticism

While we Americans were sitting on our rears eating bon-bons, more Russians died than in all of America's wars combined fighting Adolph Hitler. Love them or hate them, forced by circumstances or not, the Russians did more to save Western Europe from Nazism than anyone else.

Re:Not so fast.. (2, Funny)

ComputerGeek01 (1182793) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118666)

Oh boo hoo. Russia has a bad history, it should expect criticism

While we Americans were sitting on our rears eating bon-bons, more Russians died than in all of America's wars combined fighting Adolph Hitler. Love them or hate them, forced by circumstances or not, the Russians did more to save Western Europe from Nazism than anyone else.

"No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country" - General George S. Patton

My friend General Patton and I disagree with you, they sacrificed more that is for certain but Sacrifice != Winning

Re:Not so fast.. (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118704)

Of course, the Russians have to take a lot of responsibility for that, because right up until the morning of the Nazi invasion they were shipping steel to Nazi Germany. In fact, Operation Barbarossa was specifically delayed until after those final steel shipments. It's one of the great ironies of the War that a lot of equipment thrown into the invasion of Russia was made using Russian steel.

Beyond that, one of the chief reasons that Germany was initially so successful was because of Stalin's purges of the Army in the 1930s had eliminated a good deal of talent in the Red Army. While Hitler was content to overlook some of the opinions of his most important officers in the Navy, Army and Luftwaffe, Stalin's paranoia and megalomania drove him to wipe out a good portion of the very people that would have been key in organizing military defense.

So Russia was by no means innocent of its own woes, as Churchill reminded Stalin at times when Stalin would freak out about not enough armament shipments were getting through or when he felt the US and Britain weren't doing enough to relieve pressure in the Eastern Theater.

Re:Not so fast.. (1)

uberjack (1311219) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118986)

Does it matter that Stalin was, in fact, not Russian? Just askin'...

Re:Not so fast.. (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119238)

Of course, the Russians have to take a lot of responsibility for that, because right up until the morning of the Nazi invasion they were shipping steel to Nazi Germany.

Dude, we were lending Hitler money. Everybody but France was trying to throw money at Hitler thinking it would avoid a war. He took the steel, the money and everything else, and bought weapons. Major jerk.

Re:Not so fast.. (1)

NotBornYesterday (1093817) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118800)

Bon-bons? Hyperbole much? Also, your geography is off; Russia is to the east. Strictly speaking, not a single Russian died defending Western Europe. Of course, you will probably say that they turned Hitler's armies and resources away from the Western front, but I'd argue that Hitler did that on his own, and I don't think Russia deserves credit for Hitler's mistake.

Not to belittle Russia's accomplishment in fighting them off, or the massive loss of life they sustained, just being picky. If you had left "Western" off your comment, I probably would agree more.

Re:Not so fast.. (3, Interesting)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119014)

Well, I think a lot of Russians died in what was ultimately the defense of Western Europe. The invasion of Russia was, from a purely military standpoint, completely idiotic, and the German General Staff knew it, but Hitler's hatred of Communists and Slavs, even ones that he had signed a nice little pact that Stalin seemed contented with, drove him to one of the greatest military blunders in history.

If Germany had not had an Eastern Front, it could have dedicated its land forces and airforce exclusively to the invasion of Britain and to complete dominance in the Mediterranean. D Day would have been all but impossible because all those divisions dedicated to destroying Bolsheviks would have been sitting on every vulnerable bit of coastline from Denmark to Southern France. What's more, even if an invasion of Britain was as much a disaster as a Russian invasion (and it would very likely have been), the British Isles are the only potential point Allied forces could have reasonably launched an invasion from.

Re:Not so fast.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118888)

Yea, right, not so fast. There are plenty of juicy facts showing brave russian warriors saving innocent people.

By the way, most of you will be more than surprised, after seeing this movie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellion:_the_Litvinenko_Case

Re:Not so fast.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118900)

Oh boo hoo. Russia has a bad history, it should expect criticism

While we Americans were sitting on our rears eating bon-bons, more Russians died than in all of America's wars combined fighting Adolph Hitler. Love them or hate them, forced by circumstances or not, the Russians did more to save Western Europe from Nazism than anyone else.

Just because more Russians died doesn't mean they did more to save Europe from the Nazis. If you know anything about history you would know how poorly they defended themselves. They lost so many people because they didn't even give their soldiers guns! You are 100% wrong.

Before you post learn some history.

Re:Not so fast.. (2)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119044)

You do not think in a full picture either. USA/UK took a lot longer to come to far, because they had to mobilize their units. Russia didn't really have time for that, as Nazis we're already coming and attacking. They had to fight with lots of casualties to keep them away, and if they didn't the whole war and world could be a lot different now. Nazi's would had a lot more power if they had crushed Russians before US/UK came to war.

Re:Not so fast.. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119118)

as Nazis we're already coming and attacking.

You might want to reconsider that apostrophe.

Re:Not so fast.. (2, Insightful)

Keebler71 (520908) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118934)

While we Americans were sitting on our rears eating bon-bons, more Russians died than in all of America's wars combined fighting Adolph Hitler. Love them or hate them, forced by circumstances or not, the Russians did more to save Western Europe from Nazism than anyone else.

How's that? The fact that they suffered higher casualties does not at all correllate to their contribution to "saving Western Europe". Perhaps they suffered higher casualties because they were an inferior fighting force. Maybe if Stalin hadn't murdered the vast majority of his military leadership during the great purge [wikipedia.org] from 1937-1938 then his armies would have faired better... from wikipedia:

"The purge of the army removed three of five marshals (then equivalent to six-star generals), 13 of 15 army commanders (then equivalent to four- and five-star generals), eight of nine admirals (the purge fell heavily on the Navy, who were suspected of exploiting their opportunities for foreign contacts[24]), 50 of 57 army corps commanders, 154 out of 186 division commanders, 16 of 16 army commissars, and 25 of 28 army corps commissars")

yeah...I'm sure that had nothing to do with their staggering losses...just a couple years later..

True they sacrificed more in terms of lives lost - but they were also fighting for their survival as a nation... if they were so interested in saving Western Europe then maybe that wouldn't have signed a non-aggression pact [wikipedia.org] with Hitler in 1939 (complete with a secret pact collaborating with the Germans on carving up eastern Europe and the balatics).

Re:Not so fast.. (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119258)

How's that? The fact that they suffered higher casualties does not at all correllate to their contribution to "saving Western Europe".

Stalingrad and Kursk. Defense rests.

Re:Not so fast.. (4, Insightful)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119232)

While we Americans were sitting on our rears eating bon-bons

Why shouldn't we have been sitting on our rears eating bon-bons? You think it's the job of the United States to intervene in foreign wars? We did that in WW1 and got nothing out of it -- our supposed Allies ignored Wilson's plan for a just and fair peace and imposed draconian terms on Germany that set the stage for WW2. Then they defaulted on their wartime debts to the US. With that bit of history in mind perhaps it's easier to understand why the US had a strong isolationist sentiment in the 30s?

Love them or hate them, forced by circumstances or not, the Russians did more to save Western Europe from Nazism than anyone else.

The Russians made their own bed when they cut a deal with Hitler to slice up Eastern Europe. Had they joined forces with the Allies in 1939 it's probable that Germany would have been crushed and the Great Patriotic War would never have happened. The French had long sought an alliance with the Soviet Union to counter the threat of Germany but Stalin wasn't interested. He wanted the European powers to beat the stuffing out of each other to strengthen his own position. He even supplied Germany with the raw materials (ranging from grain to steel) required to keep her war machine running.

The West owes Russia no debt for her actions in WW2.

Re:Waaaaahh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118566)

Like Vietnam or Iraq wars. They are part of bad history. Ou, wait, it is not related to USSR or Russia? Even USA agreed that Chechnya has been terrorist nest.
Wait and see, Ossetia will get recognized as independent country by whole world. And whole "civilized" world will forget to apologize before Russia for insults made.
Such is capitalistic world, only acknowledging what is best for it, and it specifically.

Re:Waaaaahh (0, Troll)

jimbobborg (128330) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118748)

Like Vietnam or Iraq wars. They are part of bad history. Ou, wait, it is not related to USSR or Russia?

North Vietnam: Former Soviet Puppet
Iraq: Former Soviet Ally
Nazi Germany: Former Soviet Ally

Re:Waaaaahh (2)

Hybrid-brain (1478551) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118954)

North Korea: Former Soviet Protectorate Cuba: Former Soviet Base

Re:Waaaaahh (1)

NotBornYesterday (1093817) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118866)

That misses the point. If they don't like it, why don't they release a game that portrays the US as villains? The irony is that it would probably sell out in the US. My son & his Xbox friends all love playing as the evil bad guy.

Re:Waaaaahh (1, Insightful)

Piata (927858) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118830)

I'm curious what America's response would be to their people being demonized. I'd love to see a game set in Iraq or Vietnam where America invades your country, kills your people and attempts to rest control of your homeland away from you. Or how about a game focused on WWII's war between Japan and America that ends with 2 of your cities being vaporized?

I would love to see games from a different perspective. It would be refreshing. That and it would generate a lot of amusingly ironic commentary from Americans.

Re:Waaaaahh (1)

Boomerang Fish (205215) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118956)

Probably a lot of protests, a few of your more "paternalistic" chains, like Walmart might refuse to stock it, but in the end it would sell, because the protests would bring a much larger audience than it could have gotten on its own...

Hell, you'd probably get some special interest groups screaming "its about time" and buying it out on principle.

--
I drank what?

Re:Waaaaahh (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119074)

Exactly. But none is going to do it, publish it or sell it. And it would most likely be banned right away.

Re:Waaaaahh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119128)

I'm sure people would bitch and moan, but it wouldn't be BANNED by the government. Why? Something called the constitution, and freedom of speech.

Re:Waaaaahh (1)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119264)

I'm curious what America's response would be to their people being demonized.

There would be a lot of whining but I'll wager that our Government wouldn't feel the need to prohibit our people from buying the game.....

That's a small little difference between the US and Russia that most people in this discussion seem to be omitting.

Unlike all other countries? (1)

Lemming Mark (849014) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119050)

Russia has a bad history and so does everyone else. I don't see the mainstream video games industry making much effort to portray the negative sides of countries they're based in or where their major markets are. You can use art, including video games, as a critical tool - but if a developer really has an artistic interest in social commentary, rather than just finding convenient stereotypes to build plot around, I'd expect them to be tackling the dirty laundry of other major powers from history. That said, being located in an unstable region with various power plays going on in their vicinity, Russia does make a plausible setting for dramatic military stuff to go down.

Censorship is BAD, m'kay? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118462)

> Before you overly criticize the Russian government, there may be some truth to the claim that the game's story line overly demonizes Russians

Oh, I guess that makes it okay, then. The Russian government has every right to make up your mind for you.

Re:Censorship is BAD, m'kay? (1, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118884)

Just turn it around. Try to even think about the uproar if some game developer released a game where Americans are associated with terrorism and the famous "No Russian" level would take part in lets say New York Airport, instead of Moscow.

Re:Censorship is BAD, m'kay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119164)

I thought it WAS an american airport, that's why I really didn't care about it.

When I found out it was a Russian airport I was appauled.

Re:Censorship is BAD, m'kay? (2, Insightful)

lbalbalba (526209) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119228)

Just turn it around.

Indeed. Just imagine a game company publishing a game were you got to play some mad Islamic-fundamentalist terrorists that were out to rid the world of the 'root-of-all-evil' American civilians, and watch all hell break loose...

Sad (1, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118476)

It's sad and pathetic how some countries have such thin skins. It must be so awful to be a major nuclear power and yet be so terrified of any kind of real or imagined insult.

Re:Sad (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118648)

..and the same wouldn't happen if you made a game depicting the US as the evil country and you tried selling it in the US?

Re:Sad (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118756)

You'd get bitchy people, but an attempt to ban it would probably lead to the ACLU taking whatever level of government that tried it to court..

There is a difference between disliking something and having a system that actually allows you to outright ban it.

Re:Sad (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118672)

If anybody created a video game depicting Americans the same way many video games depict Russians/Arabs/enemy ethnicity of the day, the game would be branded a "terrorist training tool" and its creators would be put on a "terrorist watch list" and not allowed to live normal lives as free human beings (assuming they were in US or its puppet states like UK).

Re:Sad (0, Troll)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118708)

Thanks for the warning AC, putting on my tin foil hat now.

Re:Sad (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118806)

I don't suppose you have any evidence that this would happen. I do love how people basically invent scenarios to justify some countries detesting of liberty. Actually I don't, because it shows your dishonesty.

Re:Sad (-1, Flamebait)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118802)

Image is much more powerful than nukes (that you can't use anyway) these days, The first step to going to war with somebody is to deionise them, then make it clear that your soldiers are just doing a job while theirs enjoy killing, if the general public don't buy that, then when you drop nukes you'll be tried as a war criminal! PR is a much more powerful weapon than a nuke.

But hey your just a stupid fat american so you wouldn't understand that.

Thin skins are not the problem; terrorism is (4, Insightful)

tetromino (807969) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118942)

The problem Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs had with the mission is not with how the Russian villain is portrayed (although that probably didn't help the game get a positive reception), but with the fact that the mission is about killing innocent Russian civilians. It does not matter whether the villain is Russian or French or American or Martian - killing civilians at an airport is, according, to a Ministry spokesman, "propaganda of terrorism" and hence illegal.

See http://www.gotps3.ru/article/call_of_duty_modern_warfare_2_zapretjat_v_rossii/ [gotps3.ru] for more details.

Re:Sad (1)

flabordec (984984) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119122)

It is sad and pathetic that the United States popular culture portrays any foreign culture as a vulgar [superdickery.com] caricature [superdickery.com] , but americans feel outrage when a character from 1960's mexican comics does the exact same thing [wikipedia.org] .

Swastika's are a legal issue. (5, Informative)

crowne (1375197) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118490)

Its actually illegal to display swatika's in public in Germany and Austria.

Re:Swastika's are a legal issue. (1, Insightful)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118616)

I wasn't aware that images on your TV inside your private residence was considered 'public' in Germany.

Re:Swastika's are a legal issue. (1)

Yacoby (1295064) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118778)

That is not why it was recalled. The law in question outlaws "use of symbols of unconstitutional organisations" and while it does ban the swastika in public, it also states:

Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda [...] shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. [...]

Re:Swastika's are a legal issue. (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118916)

They're publicly broadcasted, if you didn't know.

Re:Swastika's are a legal issue. (2, Informative)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118716)

Its actually illegal to display swatika's in public in Germany and Austria.

So if I recall the images from the Germany story that I linked to in the summary, it wasn't even swastikas. It was SS symbols on a dead soldier's lapel that they missed as they retextured much of the game. As I commented on that last story:

German law Strafgesetzbuch Section 86 [wikipedia.org] :

Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda: 1. of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party; [...] 4. means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. [...] (3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. [...] Section 86a StGB Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever: 1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (Â 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in Section 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or 2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. (2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto.

That part about "flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting" is what got them--not a big fat swastika but some more obscure symbols. It really makes you wonder how broad they purposefully wrote this law so that they can use their own discretion to censor what they see fit. I don't agree with it but they're a sovereign nation that makes its own laws. I know I wouldn't stand for it. I recognize the horrors of my own country and we will forever keep things like slavery and repression in general in front and center of our attention -- a mandatory history lesson -- so that we never repeat those mistakes.

they purposefully wrote this law (2, Interesting)

wiredog (43288) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119068)

I thought the Allied Powers wrote the law in 1945?

Re:Swastika's are a legal issue. (1)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118752)

But should they be? What if the Nazi party had used the leter 'N' as it's symbol, should the letter be banned in Germany? Don't get me wrong, I understand the reasons for the ban, I just don't think it is wise to say "this, and only this, is illegal". A) I gaurantee there are still Nazi's and Neo-Nazis in Germany. B) The swastika has symbolic meaning to the Hindu religion. In other words, you are banning both less than, and more than you wanted to when you created the ban.

Re:Swastika's are a legal issue. (1)

LordKazan (558383) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118990)

A) yes there are, mostly in the former east germany. The government even officially has a stance of tolerating them displaying nazi symbols so long as they remain peaceful
B) the Nazi Swastika and the Hindu Swastika are not the same. The Nazi one is basically the Hindu one backwards

Re:Swastika's are a legal issue. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119110)

Swastikas are only prohibited as symbols of the Nazi regime, and only when used as such in a non-documentary fashion. If one agrees that using symbols of unconstitutional organizations should be illegal, then the law as it exists is quite reasonable.

Re:Swastika's are a legal issue. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119194)

1) The Nazi swastika is sufficiently different from the religious swastikas to be able to distinguish them
2) Swastika's for religious use are tolerated

Re:Swastika's are a legal issue. (2, Informative)

Sir Codelot (830933) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119146)

Its actually illegal to display swatika's in public in Germany and Austria.

Here in India, where the Swastika originated [wikipedia.org] , it denotes good luck.
Heh, I've always wondered what would happen if my ex-colleague visited Germany. Swastika is her name.

Re:Swastika's are a legal issue. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119172)

Its actually illegal to display swatika's in public in Germany and Austria.

That's put a bit too simple.

Swastikas (as in the Nazi flag) are illegal in Germany (as being a "propaganda item for an anti-constitutional organization"), but there are quite some exceptions.
Basically, the use is OK if it serves the purpose of arts, science, education, research, or reports on current or historic events. So you commonly see it on TV, in the cinema, on the cover of and inside countless books...

Selling games apparently is not considered to be part of that exception (it is legal to own the Wolfenstein game version which includes swastikas, you are not allowed to sell them, though).

I just got MW2, and am disappointed. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118502)

I'm a casual gamer, and me and two other buddies play for an hour 2-4 nights a week. Its a great way to keep in touch.

Anyways, here's what I REALLY don't like:
* auto-aim across a map. Takes all the skill out of a good shot. Zoom. Fire. Zoom. Fire. Zoom. Fire.
* Works with pistols. At a 1000 yards.
* Disabling party chat on open-gaming. Now we HAVE to listen to the stupid chatter of the 14 year olds. We're in our 40s. Good god shut it off. Yes, I know I can mute all but friends. And since when can a game disable a console feature? I paid for party chat with my XBL sub!
* Can't play co-op mission.
* Can't play spec-ops with more than 2 people. (there's 3 of us, remember?)

Damn, its SOOO close to being perfect its not even funny. Amazing how a few minor changes make me wish I hadn't bought it. Looks like we'll be getting more play time on WaW. Those last two points SUCK BIG TIME for the 3 of us!

Re:I just got MW2, and am disappointed. (2, Informative)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118518)

Solution: Get PCs and play on a LAN...

Oh wait, no LAN for MW2... only matchmaking.

Re:I just got MW2, and am disappointed. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118558)

Haha, epic win.

Re:I just got MW2, and am disappointed. (1)

Nathrael (1251426) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118878)

Better solution: torrent a copy for the PC, then use Teknogods MPLoader which enables not only playing on dedicated servers but also LAN games (or so they say - haven't tested it myself yet).

Re:I just got MW2, and am disappointed. (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118948)

There are LAN games in MW2.

There's no auto-aim on PC, and you can party chat on Ventrilo.

Truth in Gaming? (3, Interesting)

pete-classic (75983) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118522)

Before you overly criticize the Russian government, there may be some truth to the claim that the game's story line overly demonizes Russians as just terrorists as the Russian site GotPS3.ru alleges.

Assuming that it portrays them in an objectively false way, you still have to demonstrate that censorship is a good idea.

I propose that it's a lousy idea, that games are art, and that inaccuracy isn't a reason to suppress art.

Consider the Russian government "overly" criticized by me!

-Peter

Not much has changed in Russia since Glasnost (0, Troll)

al0ha (1262684) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118526)

obviously they still do not have any real concept of freedom of speech.

Wolfenstein (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118532)

The Wolfenstein issue seems very unrelated. Germany has had for a long time regulations about displaying anything related to the Nazis, and this even effected the removal of the symbols from earlier games bearing the Wolfenstein name. Bringing it into this argument is just sophisticating the issue that the poster (or the article it read) is trying to raise.

CoD6: Vietnam (5, Insightful)

number17 (952777) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118542)

When are the Vietnam missions coming out where a villiage gate opens and you have to pillage and rape all the civilians? That's right, nobody is stupid enough to do it for the same reason.

Re:CoD6: Vietnam (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118798)

Were you even alive during Vietnam or do you just regurgitate crap you read online?

Re:CoD6: Vietnam (1)

musikit (716987) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119266)

the name of the product as far as i can tell is Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2

or in abbreviated form. CoDMW2.

i hate to be so literal about it but if the company wanted it called "CoD6" they would have named it "CoD6"

The countries (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118562)

The fact that the games existed in order to be recalled shows that the issue is with the countries, not with the gaming world.

Boohoo (0, Troll)

CaseM (746707) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118564)

Unfortunately, a proper retort to the Russian oversensitivity gives away key plot points from the game. Sadly, I can't say more. Suffice it to say that their hand-wringing is baseless.

Not all about the feelings. (1)

meglon (1001833) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118572)

There is a slight difference in the two. The Wolfenstein recall in Germany had little to do with cultural sensitivity, and a lot more to do with the fact that in Germany it is illegal to perform a Hitler salute, wear a Nazi uniform or display the swastika, all of these being good for up to three years in prison.

Given that, it's probably not unreasonable to think that some people in a given culture might find being demonized for a game not to their liking. Make a game of the early white settlers murdering millions of native american indians, and you'd probably piss off the indians and the poor rednecks who were never taught about it before they dropped out of school.

Re:Not all about the feelings. (1)

HaZardman27 (1521119) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118766)

Make a game of the early white settlers murdering millions of native american indians, and you'd probably piss off the indians and the poor rednecks who were never taught about it before they dropped out of school.

I assume you've never heard of Custer's Revenge for the Atari. Not exactly the same situation, but close enough.

Sadly, it would piss off more than just the poor rednecks as they've been taking out America's history with the Native Americans little by little every year. I've met kids these days who know nothing about it. You don't need to drop out of school to avoid learning about American atrocities anymore.

anti-nazi-nazis (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118574)

Not too long ago, Wolfenstein was recalled in Germany for containing Nazi symbols.

Germans are anti-nazi-nazis.

Re:anti-nazi-nazis (1)

b4dc0d3r (1268512) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119262)

No Volfenstein for you!

What goes around never comes back? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118576)

Would you play the Jihad Freedom Fighter game that one day demonizes the US?

Having played through and beaten the game. I don't think anyone comes away with their hands clean. The games name is "Modern Warfare" and it's dirty, gritty and cold blooded.

Grand theft Auto I - IV never left me questioning anything I did because of the comedic gameplay. This game did.

I don't think they should mess with the content but I do think they should have said something about it. Politely, formally, respectively. I mean this is Russia: if they can't pirate it, who will?

Have they played the mission? (5, Insightful)

cosm (1072588) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118588)

In 'No Russian', you play as an American CIA agent, and you, as an AMERICAN agent, lay round after round into the innocent populace, alongside the Russian antagonist. I think the even larger message Infinity Ward sends with this mission is the atrocious things the American government is willing to do for the sake of 'National Security'.

Does anyone else see the hilarity in this? Not to mention their foreshadowing of American soldiers torturing an informant via electrocution! Each side of the geopolitical spectrum gets demonized in their own right.

But hey, lets just hate on the game that shows the gritty reality of the world.

Re:Have they played the mission? (4, Informative)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118728)

I played this mission. All the hype was saying you have to kill dozens of civiilans, but in truth, you didn't have to kill any. You were just along for the ride. If you chose to kill some, that was up to you, but it was not required. I am sick about all the misinformaiton about this game.

Re:Have they played the mission? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118876)

I played this mission. All the hype was saying you have to kill dozens of civiilans, but in truth, you didn't have to kill any. You were just along for the ride. If you chose to kill some, that was up to you, but it was not required. I am sick about all the misinformaiton about this game.

If you shoot the civilians in the german edition of the game the mission fails. Police is a valid target though.

This way it's just half the fun :(

Re:Have they played the mission? (1)

tetromino (807969) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118810)

The problem with the mission with who is doing the shooting - it's with who you are shooting at. You are shooting Russian civilians. Massacring dozens of them in cold blood. That's why Russia threatened to ban the game unless the mission was removed.

Re:Have they played the mission? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119104)

I don't buy that argument. Should the entire world ban the movie 2012 for nature killing 6 billion people? People die! Be it by nature, or induced by (fellow?) man. And humans do kill each other. It is just a fact of life.

Lets remove the worlds history while where at it, since it depicts the deaths of billions. It's like they say in fight club: "First, you have to know, not fear, know that someday you are going to die. Until you know that, you are useless."

The big picture... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118642)

How many sales do software companies even make in Russia? Russia is notorious for hacking, pirates, and spam; not a place where a lot of sales are to be made.

America gets it far worse (5, Funny)

mike260 (224212) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118722)

The US military spends half the game trying to recapture a Burger King and the other half trying not to bomb their own White House. At least the Russians get portrayed as *competent* terrorists.

Re:America gets it far worse (1)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118822)

The US was really Attacking Burger King. The "Terrorists" were actually Burger King workers. America has a grudge because Buger King stopped selling the Angery Whopper. Those Bastards!

Re:America gets it far worse (3, Funny)

ewenix (702589) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119236)

The "Terrorists" were actually Burger King workers. America has a grudge because Buger King stopped selling the Angery Whopper. Those Bastards!

My colon declared *me* a terrorist, after I ate one of those Angry Whoppers.

While they're at it... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118738)

...the Russian government should probably pull all the Red Alert titles from the shelves too. Using FMV to portray actors with terrible Russian accents is an affront on everything the Russian people hold dear.

Stay Classy Russia (1)

Swanktastic (109747) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118746)

It would have been nice if there were a discussion of the "demonizing" of Russians from a site in English- to hell with site translators. I haven't played the game and don't really know if the game portrays all Russians as terrorists. I'm fairly sure they would have been content to depict Muslim Chechens as all being terrorists though. A Russian guy once told me about how Russian police(?) wrapped Chechen terrorists' corpses in pigskins to prevent their souls from escaping their bodies.

Germans and Wolfenstein .... (-1, Troll)

King_TJ (85913) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118788)

While I confess I've never even visited Germany before, I had a teacher who did a while ago. I remember him telling us the Germans had a culture of denial, when it came to the WWII Nazi era. History textbooks would completely gloss over that part of history with only the vaguest mention of Hitler and his ambitions. At first, he tried to discuss and question it with people there, but he said it was almost like running into a brick wall. People would practically tell him to quiet down, because "we don't talk about that here anymore".

If that's accurate, then it goes a LONG way towards understanding why they'd ban a game like Wolfenstein, and why they're so adamant about banning sales of Nazi era items on eBay, etc. etc.

Re:Germans and Wolfenstein .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118944)

I wouldn't say they gloss over their history...

What about the "Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe" in Berlin?

Murdered Jews! I'd hardly call that a denial of your own history

Re:Germans and Wolfenstein .... (3, Interesting)

raddan (519638) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119220)

I've been to Germany a number of times, and had a long-term relationship with a woman living there. I met a lot of Germans.

I wouldn't say that modern Germans are 'in denial'-- really, people's reactions run the gamut. But what is true, is that everyone there has a strong opinion on the matter. Many people have a deep sense of shame about it-- after all, in many cases the people who perpetrated the atrocities of WWII were parents or grandparents. Some people had nothing to do with that part of the past, or are descendents of victims, and they feel that the German people are wrongly villified. A minority-- and unfortunately, these people are growing in number-- think that the whole Holocaust thing is revisionist history. It's not that people don't talk about it, but it is a very sensitive issue, even among Germans, and so you'd understand if they don't want to talk to you about it.

Interestingly, when I was in Germany, many people I hung out with constantly complained about "repressive American political correctness" while also failing to notice that American 1st Amendment freedoms are much stronger than the German equivalent. There's definitely a bit of a different philosophy at work there (e.g., most Germans I met are not as optimistic as Americans when it comes to populist regimes), but with regard to how, exactly that differs, I have not been able to put my finger on it. Maybe a German reader would care to comment.

They Couldn't See this Coming? (4, Interesting)

mpapet (761907) | more than 4 years ago | (#30118886)

Seriously,

My fictionally perfect game that will sell WAY more than this title will have country-specific enemies. Marketed in the U.S? Russia. Marketed in Russia? U.S. Marketed in India? Pakistan. Marketed in Pakistan? Indians.

They'd sell more games pandering to country-specific deeply ingrained cultural enemies. Maybe the game engine doesn't support locales like that though.

Disclaimer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30118912)

Agreed that the game does slant a bad image of Russia. An introduction to the themes and a disclaimer could have really cleared up all the mess. When you portray a nationality as the antagonist, thick skinned or not, it does kind of sting a little. At the very least, a few people might be self conscious now that the rest of the world views them as imperialistic "will to power" war mongering opportunist. ALA USA post 9/11.

A brief disclaimer and introduction to the themes/plot narrative would have cleared the air that this is fiction and they just choose russia as the bad guys, purely out of fiction.

Re:Disclaimer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119120)

There is one, at least in PS3. It gives you the option to skip "potentially offensive" missions. If you choose to ignore the disclaimer, then that's your fault.

mw2 doesn't portray russians as terrorists (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119056)

Just to be clear -- mw2 does NOT portray russians as terrorists.
It portrays one guy in particular, who happens to be russian, as a
a terrorist. He happens to slaughter a bunch of civilians (along with
the american CIA mole) and pins it on the US, which leads the
russians into a conventional war against the US. This is (with
the exception of the terrorist framing a major government) entirely
analagous to the US going into Afghanistan after 9/11.

the "no russian" mission is pretty hardcore violent, and you're
warned about it when you set up the game.

So I don't think anyone can justifiably say it portrays "russians"
negatively... in the context of the game, they're pretty justifiably
pissed off, not invading "as terrorists".

If anyone recalls the game for nastiness, I'd expect it to be for
the "no russian" mission purely because it's... hardcore violent.
I can't comment on the russian rationale for the recall, as TFA
is in russian. The english articles citing it are gaming sites
citing other gaming sites, I don't see original English sources
explaining why the recall is happening.

A mod to correct the portrayal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119062)

In an effort to make the Russians appear less bloody thirsty the new release of the game will have Russian weapons replaced by flowers and instead of running the Russian characters will skip.

yeah i think (1)

nimbius (983462) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119108)

we need to crack down on demonizing countries and people in video games. as an example, theres a notable portion of the populace that have an extremely difficult time discerning between sean hannity's tangential commentary and REAL news. What is to stop this portion from being creatively incensed even further to adopt a polarized stance to the rest of the world based on gameplay they forgot is not part of history or even a remotely accurate portrayal?

lets go back to places and people that arent real, so we can be free to form our own opinions without entertainment media driving them to extremes.

Rainbow 6 : Tower Records (3, Funny)

royler (1270778) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119150)

why dont they just make a game where the RIAA are the bad guys?

Quite a simple solution (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30119176)

Release an alternative mission that involves first going into an American school and massacring the schoolkids, then by chance stumbling upon the president out on a jog and killing him, who happens to be Obama.

-5billion flamebait.

It doesn't say why? (2, Insightful)

Lemming Mark (849014) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119182)

The article isn't specific on whether the infamous airport scene is being removed because of its portrayal of Russia, or whether it's being censored because it's an unpleasant part of the game. Most other countries have had uproar about this scene and I'd expect to see it refused classification in some places (e.g. in Australia where Left 4 Dead 2 recently encountered problems). A national classification body refusing to allow a game to go on sale does, effectively, constitute the government disapproving of something - but it's a very different situation to central government stepping in and banning something directly for political reasons. Maybe this is happening behind the scenes but the article *doesn't say*.

It's certainly suggested that the Russian gaming public weren't all overjoyed to see the portrayal of their country in the game. That's hardly surprising, though - I expect most gamers from other big markets such as Europe, the US and Japan would also be quite easily offended if their unpleasant past was dredged up. People don't like to think of their country ever being the villains and yet pretty much every country in the world has been villainous in the past, often surprisingly recently.

Here we go (1)

Itadakimasu (1646677) | more than 4 years ago | (#30119212)

In Capitalist America, you ban the game.

In Soviet Russia, game bans YOU!!

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