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Ask Sam Ramji About the CodePlex Foundation

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 4 years ago | from the life-after-microsoft dept.

Programming 77

This week the Codeplex Foundation announced its first project, the ASP.NET Ajax Library Project, as part of its first sponsored gallery, the ASP.NET Gallery. The CodePlex Foundation is now two months old, and Foundation President Sam Ramji has agreed to answer questions about the Foundation, its first project, and overall progress to date. Usual Slashdot interview rules apply.

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Who are you? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30145464)

Googling him doesn't count.

And whats with the typo in your name? (-1, Offtopic)

ReverendLoki (663861) | more than 4 years ago | (#30145542)

Will the Codeplex Project, or perhaps just programming/coding in general, feature a more prominent role in the upcoming Spiderman 4?

Question for ya... (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30145580)

I just want to know what it's been like to work with Bruce Campbell on so many projects, and if there's a "Spiderman Vs. Hulk" movie in the works anytime soon.

Don't be ridiculous... (1)

denzacar (181829) | more than 4 years ago | (#30250120)

That is Sam RAIMI.

This is that hobbit guy that went with Frodo to Mount Doom to chuck that ring into the lava pits.

A gallery... (-1, Flamebait)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 4 years ago | (#30145714)

.... is somewhere pictures are displayed last time I looked. Are we trying to co-opt this word now to try and make a code repository sound sexy? Sorry , doesn't work pal.

Just leave the friggin language alone and use words appropriately, don't invent your own meanings to try and sound clever. Its bad enough with all the idiotic management speak around without geeks adding to the mess.

Re:A gallery... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30146364)

Unfortunately, the CodePlex Foundation has some sort of distinction between a gallery and a repository. I spoke for 30 minutes with Ramji a few weeks back, and yet I still have absolutely no idea what those differences are. He said that these galleries weren't about code, but rather about the ways corporations contribute code into them.

So, here's the first question: What is the difference between a Gallery and a Repository?

Re:A gallery... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30146742)

A repo is an individual project. A gallery is just a way to display those projects as a collection. Granted, the collection can be inside of a repo. It's kind of like how "Boost" is a gallery and there are individual packages which might be in separate repos. That's not how Boost does it, but it's kind of a decent analog.

Re:A gallery... (2, Insightful)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#30147500)

maybe the appropriate question is, why should this answer bs eo complicated?

Re:A gallery... (2)

shentino (1139071) | more than 4 years ago | (#30147866)

Microsoft isn't used to dealing with open source, so you should expect a bit of clumsiness.

Everyone stumbles a bit when they first learn to walk.

Re:A gallery... (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#30157190)

Microsoft isn't used to dealing with open source because they still aren't. They're still trying to get rid of it for a reason beyond me, especially considering that embracing it would guarantee far more sales. It's like the RIAA's sue it into oblivion thing, even though they'd make more sales with the new stuff if they even bothered considering it.

This is the biggest crux of MS I can never understand: they have amazing resources, tons of seriously talented developers, and they could get the whole software environment behind them (even open source) if they just played nicely. Can you imagine the capability a staff of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of developers have?

I guess the reason it takes 20-30 years to accept it is that old management needs to be replaced, and new management understands these ideas better. Pretty sad really, I imagine (although I admit I have no fact to back it), but that MS is quite burdened by management.

Re:A gallery... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30159554)

"why should this bs bs eo complicated?"

There, fixed that for you.

Everyone wants to know (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30145790)

How does it feel to be the next goatse man?

Conspiracy theories and where are you guys headed? (1, Insightful)

dedazo (737510) | more than 4 years ago | (#30145804)

What do you say to the inevitable flood of "advocates" who claim Microsoft is doing this sort of thing to subvert FOSS?

Bonus points: Do you see Microsoft headed in the same general direction as Google and IBM where the core products and IP are held close to the chest while some of the more peripheral stuff (not key to revenue) is released under open licenses? Recent news like the open sourcing of one of the versions of the .NET framework make it seem that way.

Double bonus points: Do you see Microsoft ever releasing the whole of .NET itself under a non-restrictive license? Do you think there would be some benefit to Microsoft in pulling something akin to Sun GPL'ing Java and still retaining control over its direction? I ask this because it would end a lot of problems (imagined and real) with Mono, for example. But that would imply a lot of work with things like WinForms, ASP.NET and parts of the data client stack, without which any .NET implementation cannot help but be seen as a interesting experiment rather than as a valid enterprise-ready alternative.

To be clear, I would love to see Codeplex lead the way in facilitating a truly cross-platform alternative to .NET on the Windows platform. If that's Mono, great. Perhaps within Microsoft something like this is seen as a threat, but you guys need to get past that mindset. How come I can robustly host PHP or Python apps on Server 2003 today but I can't do the same with .NET in BSD? The Mono team has already done most of the heavy lifting, all you guys need to do is clear up the air around it!

(sorry for the multiple questions, these are things I've been thinking about lately a lot)

Re:Conspiracy theories and where are you guys head (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30146026)

Achievement Unlocked: Minefield!

Achievement Unlocked: Implied as Facts!

Your take on bad engineerinrg? (1, Flamebait)

SgtChaireBourne (457691) | more than 4 years ago | (#30148156)

How can you and your cohorts look yourselves in the mirror knowing that you've worked at and succeeded in making bad engineering acceptable and a common occurrance?

Re:Your take on bad engineerinrg? (1)

Rycross (836649) | more than 4 years ago | (#30151554)

You might want to be consistent in checking "Post Anonymously" the next time you spam [slashdot.org] the same comment [slashdot.org] all over a story.

Re:Your take on bad engineerinrg? (1)

SgtChaireBourne (457691) | more than 4 years ago | (#30154268)

You might want to lift up a comment that was posted anonymously. There's a lot that gets posted, anonymously. Some of it good, but almost none of it breaks the 1+ threshold because of starting at 0 and for other reasons.

The bad engineering is a legitimate question. Bill Gates and his helpers have made computers synonymous with unreliable. Sam looks like he is working to bring that to Open Source.

not Raimi (0, Offtopic)

hammarlund (568027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30145834)

Damn, I thought it said Sam Raimi.

Re:not Raimi (0, Redundant)

Homr Zodyssey (905161) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146494)

Me too.

Non-Microsoft technologies? (3, Insightful)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 4 years ago | (#30145840)

Will priority be given to those using Microsoft tools, or can anyone play?

Re:Non-Microsoft technologies? (2, Informative)

nametaken (610866) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146048)

From the FAQ:

"Q: What kinds of open source projects will the Foundation focus on?
The Foundation has no pre-suppositions about particular projects, platforms, or open source licenses . "

Engineering Question (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30146332)

How can he and his cohorts look at themselves in the mirror knowing that they've worked at and succeeded in make bad engineering acceptable?

Re:Engineering Question (0, Offtopic)

choongiri (840652) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146894)

How can angry ACs look at themselves in the mirror knowing that they've worked at and succeeded in make bad grammar everywhere?

Re:Non-Microsoft technologies? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30146738)

This is directed at Sam not the parent poster.

When are you going to dive off the balcony of a 190 story skyscraper for being a piece of freedom hating subversive M$ piece of shit. Fuck you, fuck your Mickeysquish masters in Redmond and fuck this sham "Foundation". I hope your whole family gets West Nile virus and dies in a pool of your own feces.

Re:Non-Microsoft technologies? (1)

DocHoncho (1198543) | more than 4 years ago | (#30150770)

C'mon, tell us what you really think.

Question: (4, Funny)

eln (21727) | more than 4 years ago | (#30145864)

How do you plan to integrate Ajax into the Web 2.0 Cloud to empower the Semantic Web using SaaS on top of a SOAP backend utilizing XML? What is the signal-to-buzzword ratio in day-to-day communications at your foundation? Isn't Ajax just soooo 2007, and shouldn't you rename your new project something more up-to-date, such as Tweetbook.blog?

Re:Question: (1)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 4 years ago | (#30145896)

I get it. You're one of those cool "cynics" who think everything is a "buzzword", just like I'm one of those cool guys who mockingly puts everything in "quotes".

Re:Question: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30146264)

"lol"

Re:Question: (1)

mR.bRiGhTsId3 (1196765) | more than 4 years ago | (#30147024)

"Fatality"
"Your soul is mine."

AOLer (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30148700)

I see that you kept your AOL screen name. So, you were the 99th guy on AOL to think your were being unique? Kind of like MoodyBlue23464?

Re:Question: (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146932)

Bingo! [wikipedia.org]

Re:Question: (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 4 years ago | (#30147046)

I think you may be referring to their trademark-pending FaceTweet technology...

SourceForge.net (4, Insightful)

rs232 (849320) | more than 4 years ago | (#30145866)

Why not contribute to SourceForge.net instead of unnecessarly duplicating it?

Re:SourceForge.net (0, Troll)

middlemen (765373) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146036)

Why not contribute to SourceForge.net instead of unnecessarly duplicating it?

That's because SourceForget.net is not pure .NET!

Re:SourceForge.net (3, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146210)

Ugh, 'cuz sourceforge sucks balls? Shitty layout. Slow as hell. Seriously, I welcome a decent alternative to SourceForge (not that this is necessarily it).

Re:SourceForge.net (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30146654)

Hence the "contribute to". Microsoft has the resources to fix problems, but instead chose to re-invent the wheel because of what can only be described as a chronic case of the "not invented here"'s.

Re:SourceForge.net (3, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146900)

Or they feel they can do a better job and see no point in wasting time trying to fix Sourceforge, which has been on a steadily decline since it first hit the OSS scene?

Seriously, SF has plenty of resources behind it... the fact that it sucks (IMHO) suggests there's something systemic going on there, and if I were MS, I wouldn't want to go anywhere near it.

Competitiveness of the US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30146912)

You and your cohorts are making huge progress in making bad engineering acceptable. How will you live down the effect that has had on the competitiveness of the US as a nation?

Re:SourceForge.net (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146966)

Because that's what big companies do [google.com] .

Re:SourceForge.net (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#30147038)

I realized too late that Project Hosting on Google Code [google.com] makes a much better link.

Re:SourceForge.net (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30152900)

Only SVN and HG crap. No modern GIT or golden standard CVS. No proper Web hosting. No way of getting donations through them.
It sounds to me like an Open Source dumpster really.
For code squatters to get a few lines of code that nobody will bother to sue them for.
Sourceforge is not good, but it is the best there is.
Codeplex is right there with nongnu for places you don't want to touch with a 40 feet pole.

Re:SourceForge.net (3, Insightful)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#30147736)

Have you ever tried to use Sourceforge? It's slow, ugly, constantly gives vague errors, image uploads constantly fail, terrible UI, forgets which page you were on before logging in, awful bug tracking with insultingly-named fields (canned response!)...

A better question is, "why would any project actually interested in user feedback use Sourceforge?"

Re:SourceForge.net (1)

CrashNBrn (1143981) | more than 4 years ago | (#30148704)

Why are there a gazillion different Linux distros...shouldn't they all just contribute to TheOneRealLinux.org instead of unnecessarily duplicating it?

...

In fact, linux should just go away and help contribute to Unix. Then they can call it:

Unix: The Real Linux.

Re:SourceForge.net (2, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 4 years ago | (#30151226)

Assuming you're comparing CodePlex the website (which isn't the same thing as CodePlex the foundation) to SourceForge, then I'd imagine one reason is that CodePlex uses TFS for source control and related stuff. Aside from being a showcase, some people might actually prefer that to SourceForge offerings, especially when they code to MS stack already, and use non-Express Visual Studio edition (which has decent TFS integration).

Re:SourceForge.net (1)

Gerald (9696) | more than 4 years ago | (#30163182)

Because each parent company answers to a different set of investors?

"IP needs"? (3, Insightful)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 4 years ago | (#30145872)

From your FAQ:

We wanted a foundation that addresses a full spectrum of software projects, and does so with the licensing and intellectual property needs of commercial software companies in mind.

This seems to imply that there are existing foundations that do so without those licensing and IP needs. Regardless, what do you see as the role of a foundation like yours in addressing the needs of commercial software companies?

How will projects be organized. (0)

TravisHein (981987) | more than 4 years ago | (#30145966)

How will the Codeplex foundation organize and align its [future] projects ? For example, in other foundation sites, over time there are typically several projects created by different groups, and while each is different, there is a good bit of overlap in the features and the main goals of the purpose of the project, and this can lead to confusion for people that would want to use the project, not sure which one is the better one to use.

What readers want to know: (-1, Offtopic)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146096)

Mr, Ramji, what is your opinion of Glenn Beck's lack of denial that he raped and murdered a young girl in 1990? I'm not saying he did it, I just found it interesting that he has never denied it.

repo (1)

LordMyren (15499) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146588)

is your svn hosted on a 386? is it in someone's closet, on a dsl line? why is your source repository humiliatingly unbearably slow, and why does it take minutes for an svn update to even start? is the abominable performance a hardware, or software issue?

Re:repo (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#30204920)

they call that a "Feature".

My Question: (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30146642)

Sam, do you think Barack Obama is a George W Bush level failure, a Jimmy Carter level failure, or has he set a new standard in failure?

Question (1)

Josh04 (1596071) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146678)

Does the issue of the extreme hostility to Microsoft across the FOSS community come up much when you're planning this sort of thing?

Re:Question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30148024)

Followup question: Is it, in fact, a trap?

Microsoft Front (4, Insightful)

mounthood (993037) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146700)

Half the Board of Directors, and half of the Advisory Board are from Microsoft. Why should we think that this anything but a Microsoft front?

The about page [codeplex.org] says "Our Board of Directors is an interim board" and that they will pick the new board but that's no too encouraging given who's doing the picking. CodePlex seems like Microsoft trying to create a community.

Re:Microsoft Front (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 4 years ago | (#30147218)

...or leverage their position to entice people wishing to be on the committee.

I mean look at it like this:

"Hi, I'm on the board of this source management software site and I also happen to work at Microsoft. If you promise to drop all development for ____ platform (or create Microsoft compliant hardware), I'll ensure you are voted into a chair of this advisory committee, then you can encourage the community to write applications that work with your systems and our systems! It's a win-win situation, you see?"

Re:Microsoft Front (2, Insightful)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 4 years ago | (#30147820)

"Half the Board of Directors, and half of the Advisory Board are from Microsoft. Why should we think that this anything but a Microsoft front?"

Because if it were a "front" you wouldn't have known that Microsoft was involved.

Re:Microsoft Front (1)

gregarican (694358) | more than 4 years ago | (#30148190)

Just goes to show..."Ain't no future in yo frontin'."

Re:Microsoft Front (1)

gtall (79522) | more than 4 years ago | (#30154404)

Nah, it is the usual MS bumbling propaganda ploy, recall how opaque the MSOOXML vote came about?

Re:Microsoft Front (1)

ssyladin (458003) | more than 4 years ago | (#30150602)

What the heck? You mean they're somehow pretending to NOT be a Microsoft front?

I've gone to CodePlex several times for various curiosities, such as a graphics engine [codeplex.com] or neato research oriented OS [codeplex.com] . Every time I've gone to CodePlex I've only seen Microsoft Research spinouts or code built for Microsoft stacks.

I thought it was just Microsoft's "community" site from the get go - never knew they were trying to avoid that branding.

Re:Microsoft Front (0, Troll)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#30152526)

Yes, they're trying to hide the Microsoft link - basically this is like mono all over again, just renamed and changed. Something patent encumbered and not at all open source friendly in spirit or in name.

Development? (2, Funny)

zegota (1105649) | more than 4 years ago | (#30146706)

Can you give us an update on the development of Spider-Man 3?

Re:Development? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30146928)

You mean this movie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0413300/ ? The one that came out in 2007?

Re:Development? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30146988)

Obviously he meant Spider-Man 5.

Re:Development? (1)

KraftDinner (1273626) | more than 4 years ago | (#30147626)

Are you confusing Sam Ramji with Sam Raimi? And is it supposed to be a joke?

Re:Development? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30147858)

Even more important, will there be an Army of Darkness sequel?

Re:Development? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30161564)

Spider-Man 3 was in theatres two years ago. It sucked. Don't see it.

Not Sam Raimi? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30147384)

I though it said Sam Raimi, now that ajax implementation would have some cool animation.

I have a good one... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30147402)

How did you like it when I gave you the bone hard and fast last night? I was the one in the sombrero...

ASP.NET AJAX library size (0, Redundant)

nogginthenog (582552) | more than 4 years ago | (#30147662)

Why does the ASP.NET AJAX library need a 400k .js file? Isn't that a bit excessive???

Re:ASP.NET AJAX library size (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30148080)

Why don't you turn off Debug Mode [asp.net] first?

You had better asked why the hell they felt the urge to shoehorn JavaScript into a terribly bloated monster of an OOP-imitation with laughable Visual Studio support.

Dear Sam, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30149082)

Why no Army of Darkness sequel?

Next episode? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30152792)

So, Mr. Sam Gamgee, now that Frodo is gone, what do you plan to do?

Why the same name as the MS code site? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30154032)

Why did you need to use the name Codeplex? Now the foundation will always be associated to the codeplex.com site, which is owned and operated by Microsoft, and where all code is in Visual Studio Team System/Server/Foundation/Whatever it's called, a thoroughly closed patform for source control.

Jumping through hoops to get things done (1)

Digana (1018720) | more than 4 years ago | (#30155214)

I recently had to deal with Codeplex in order to track down a bug on code hosted therein that we were using at my workplace. This is fine, I am quite happy to work with free projects in order to track down bugs. Unfortunately, I got the impression that Codeplex doesn't "get" what free collaboration is about.

For instance, it has a clickthrough for GPL and other free licenses. While harmless, it is annoying and shows that Microsoft doesn't "get" it. I also had issues doing an svn checkout of the code, since it looks like the svn repositories are hidden except for Codeplex developers. They did eventually gave me a URL to an svn checkout, but I had to ask, and it wasn't exposed in the site's web interface. I overall got the impression that unless there was some way to track me (e.g. with a username), I wasn't welcome to look at or contribute to their code. Regardless, I did eventually track down the bug and submitted a patch which got accepted.

My question, why these hoops? Is there still some restraint from Microsoft from allowing free collaboration? Do old habits die hard, is that why there are clickthroughs for free licenses, hidden svn repositories, mandatory registration? What can you tell me about the historical non-free culture in Microsoft and how it is adapting to free culture?

Codeplex - MS or community? (1)

Edam (911039) | more than 3 years ago | (#30169660)

Hi Sam,
Codeplex claims to be an "open source project community". So why no GPLv3? If fact, why was GPLv3 actually *removed*? And how is this in the interests of the "community" of which you claim to represent?

Sequel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30268762)

Will there be a fourth installment of the Evil Dead series?

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