Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Fedora 12 Released

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the new-hat-for-the-holidays dept.

Red Hat Software 236

AdamWill writes "The Fedora Project is pleased to announce the release of Fedora 12 today. With all the latest open source software and major improvements to graphics support, networking, virtualization and more, Fedora 12 is one of the most exciting releases so far. You can download it here. There's a one-page guide to the new release for those in a hurry. The full release announcement has details on the major features, and the release notes contain comprehensive information on changes in this new release. Known issues are documented on the common bugs page."

cancel ×

236 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Great work! (3, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132038)

If you read the one page release notes [fedoraproject.org] , it seems Fedora actually knows how to try to cater to more general audience too, while still supporting the core Linux audience. I have always thought that why Ubuntu became the "standard" general OS you introduce as first Linux, as Fedora does a lot more things a lot better (and the Red Hat delivered design is imo a lot better than whats delivered from Debian)

What was interesting was the "better than ever tablet support". I have been thinking of getting a tablet pc for convenience in bed, and Linux would actually be quite perfect OS for it since theres no need to play games. Seems they're taken things like that into account too, while Linux community usually forgets the non-techie stuff.

Re:Great work! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132288)

I have been thinking of getting a tablet pc for convenience in bed...

I know what you mean... I find it tiresome to have to turn my head to the desktop monitor every 15 seconds to follow the story line of "Anal Avengers 7" during foreplay.

Re:Great work! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132484)

It doesn't make nearly as much sense if you haven't yet seen 1 through 6.

Re:Great work! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30133406)

Thanks. I was wondering where the anteater came from.

Re:Great work! (5, Insightful)

Junta (36770) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132512)

It is subjective that Fedora does 'a lot more things a lot better'. They certainly have distinct aims from Ubuntu and gain some benefits, but I personally find Fedora to suffer some phenomena that Ubuntu does not:

-Out-of-the-box media/driver experience: Fedora goes purist and the out-of-the-box experience suffers for it with lack of popular codecs and optimal drivers for nVidia cards. Ubuntu caters to the user experience and takes care of this out of the box. You have to add RPM fusion repositories to make Fedora cope with this, which isn't insurmountable, but isn't out of the box.

-Fedora is not even stable within a release cycle in terms of offered featureset. I.e. I recall gaim 1.x being replaced with gaim 2.0 one day without requiring any particular update. This is good for enthusiasts who always want the cutting edge, bad for end-users who only want change at certain times they could expect (and for documenters doing screenshots). I recall once Fedora reving the kernel revision entirely without jumping releases. This wasn't bad in and of itself, but they jumped before nVidia supported it, and my X was hosed. Ubuntu is more conservative with this, knowing it will just be 6 months before a new cycle comes anyway.

-Fedora is 'too' comfortable with cutting edge changes, even to the point of releasing versions ahead of upstream *or* backporting code from future versions into older versions that upstream projects didn't want to do. For example, they backported things from the 2.6.32 branch to 2.6.31. The upstream kernel people weren't comfortable enough with the features to allow them into 2.6.31 or any release that aligned with their cycle, so they simply put 2.6.32 stuff into 2.6.31. This has been a longstanding tendency with RH (everyone probably remembers the gcc 2.96 debacle). BTW, this is even worse in RHEL, where they will backport 2.6.3x changes to 2.6.18, severely breaking third party kernel modules that code for the 'API' of 2.6.18 that gets broken by the massive amount of backports. Some third party even writes to newer 'apis', but wraps it with '> 2.6.26' sorts of ifdefs and thus assumes the 'old' api and RHEL will completely screw those assumptions. Ubuntu *usually* doesn't jump the gun (GRUB 2 is an example of going before the upstream declares 'ready' though).

-I *still* can't quite put my finger on it, but something about the Ubuntu desktop feels, subjectively to me, more whole rather than merely a conglomeration of the parts. This may simply be a matter of certain tastes they appear to me, because I can't nail it down.

Re:Great work! (3, Informative)

icebike (68054) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132744)

Many of these problems you attribute to Fedora are also true of OpenSuse.

Rather than take the Ubuntu approach of popping up a "Do you want to download these non-OSS drivers button" which handles it almost perfectly in every instance and frees the Distro of legal risk, both Fedora and opensuse have historically left you to your own devices, assuring the marginalization of their product.

Opensuse now adds many one-click installs for some of these drivers. http://www.lebokov21.com/2008/01/29/opensuse-1-click-install-your-software/ [lebokov21.com]

Forced into this by US legal situation, the web page based One-Click is better than nothing, but small consolation to someone stuck with an odd-ball network card.

Re:Great work! (2, Informative)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132968)

As far as Fedora is concerned, this is not a 'problem'. The problem is rather in distributions which rely to too great an extent on closed source drivers to provide hardware support. For instance, many Ubuntu users upgrading to 9.10 are finding they can no longer use the proprietary ATI/AMD driver for their video card and are using the free driver. Which, it seems, Ubuntu does not pay too much attention to maintaining, as many of them have problems. By contrast, Fedora considers it better that users are encouraged to use the free drivers rather than the proprietary ones, and focuses on the development of the free drivers (Red Hat pays two full time developers to work on the radeon driver). In the long run, this is better for both Fedora users and all Linux users.

Re:Great work! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30133552)

If the user perceives this as a problem with the distribution then it is a problem with the distribution. Until developers understand this, they will fail to attract new users.

Re:Great work! (2, Interesting)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132754)

Well, what alternative do you suggest for introducing desired new features into older kernel versions? It's not really the case that upstream 'didn't want to' backport things from 2.6.32 to 2.6.31, it's just not what upstream does. Upstream kernel maintainers do not maintain kernel version X once it's released, they go on to work on kernel version Y, pretty much. That doesn't mean it's somehow wrong for a distribution to do it, often it's the right thing to do, and Fedora is not the only distribution that does this (Ubuntu does it too, in some cases).

Again, for RHEL, what's the alternative? The whole point of RHEL is to provide long-term stable releases, but customers also want support for newer hardware. When RH has several thousand large customers all screaming for support for their shiny new SAN hardware that they just spent several zillion dollars on, saying 'well, we're not going to backport that driver to kernel 2.6.18' isn't really an option, and updating them all wholesale to a new kernel release probably wouldn't be the best idea in the world either. What would you suggest RH does instead?

Re:Great work! (3, Insightful)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133522)

``Again, for RHEL, what's the alternative? The whole point of RHEL is to provide long-term stable releases''

And there you have it. It's about stability. If I write software, or a configuration file, or anything else that interfaces with YourSoftware version X, and it works today, I think it is completely reasonable to expect it to also work tomorrow. If you make a new release of YourSoftware tomorrow that doesn't work with my code anymore, it's not YourSoftware version X anymore. It's a different version.

I don't want my distro to be pushing new versions on me that break compatibility.

If you want to introduce new versions, that's fine. In fact, I'm all for it. Just don't replace my working software with the new software that may or may not preserve compatibility. If it doesn't preserve compatibility, I want to have to explicitly upgrade to it. Put it in the next version of the distro. Or put it in a new package which can be installed alongside the old package. But don't put it in the current version of the distro, in the same package, because then you'll have multiple incompatible versions of the same distro with the same version number.

Speed access to Fedora Torrents (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132806)

Help others get Fedora. Seed your torrent for at least a few days. It'll be about a week to a week and a half before demands slows down. If you're concerned about bandwidth use your bandwidth scheduler.

64 bit x86:

Others:

Sources: Fedora 12 source CDs [fedoraproject.org]
Fedora 12 source DVD [fedoraproject.org]

Re:Great work! (3, Insightful)

TorKlingberg (599697) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133020)

-Fedora is not even stable within a release cycle in terms of offered featureset. I.e. I recall gaim 1.x being replaced with gaim 2.0 one day without requiring any particular update. This is good for enthusiasts who always want the cutting edge, bad for end-users who only want change at certain times they could expect (and for documenters doing screenshots).

On the other hand, with Ubuntu you are stuck with old versions of applications until you upgrade the whole system. For application software that is unlikely to break other things, I wish it was possible to upgrade to a new major version without upgrading everything else at once. It shouldn't be pushed as an automatic or opt-out update though, only manual or opt-in.

Re:Great work! (1)

tolan-b (230077) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133114)

Well quite a lot of stuff is available in the backports repository.

Re:Great work! (1)

TorKlingberg (599697) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133268)

Well quite a lot of stuff is available in the backports repository.

How much tricks does that require? Will it break stuff when finally upgrading to a new version of Ubuntu?

Re:Great work! (2, Informative)

Enry (630) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133384)

Not much in the way of tricks (a few extra repository lines). Debian backports (and I'm sure Ubuntu backports as well) are versioned such that when you upgrade to a new Debian release, the backport is replaced with the correct version.

Re:Great work! (3, Informative)

diegocg (1680514) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133110)

-Fedora is 'too' comfortable with cutting edge changes,

That's why I'm switching from Ubuntu to Fedora - I want cutting edge stuff, but not unstable enought to scare me and break all my stuff. Many fedora package maintainers are red hat programmers who are also important kernel/libc/gcc/gnome/pulseaudio/x.org hackers, they drop cutting edge stuff but it's their stuff and they fix it quickly. Ubuntu packagers however are usually just packagers. Often, Fedora maintainers test features in the distro _before_ they are merged in upstream. For example, this Fedora version includes many nice KVM improvements, the utrace kernel patches needed for Systemtap userspace probing which are not upstream, the out-of-the-tree nouveau driver enabled by default... It's certainly more unstable than Ubuntu, but it's also more interesting for my taste. Also, using fedora I help to test and stabilize features that will go later into other distros.

RH backporting debacle .. (1)

rs232 (849320) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133600)

"-Fedora is 'too' comfortable with cutting edge changes, even to the point of releasing versions ahead of upstream *or* backporting .. This has been a longstanding tendency with RH (everyone probably remembers the gcc 2.96 debacle)"

I honestly don't, do you mind providing a link. Did people come in one morning and find their gcc 2.96 had automatically upgraded itself?

"something about the Ubuntu desktop feels, subjectively to me, more whole rather than merely a conglomeration of the parts. This may simply be a matter of certain tastes they appear to me, because I can't nail it down"

You gets what you pay for. But to answer why Ubuntu is more whole, maybe because there is Canonical behind it. But then again I have been a user of openSuSE, and while all the parts were there, they weren't as polished as a Ubuntu distro. I guess it's what you're used to and besides no one is forcing you to upgrade ...

ATI works out of the box! (1)

thule (9041) | more than 4 years ago | (#30134046)

I have a Thinkpad T60p. The video chip is an "ATI Technologies Inc M56GL [Mobility FireGL V5250]." With Fedora 12, for the first time, I have stable 3D video on this system. This includes running the proprietary drivers. I am currently running Compiz with Fedora 12 with the "experimental" ATI 3D support. The are still some issues with games, but for basic 3D the driver is solid. No problems with power management (suspect/hibernate)!

One of Fedora's goals is to get rid of the need for distributing proprietary drivers. So far they seem to be doing a very good job.

Re:Great work! (0, Flamebait)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132690)

...as Fedora does a lot more things a lot better

That hasn't been my experience. I find Fedora does a lot less, and doesn't do it as well. The primary example of this is yum, which is a third rate program by comparision to apt. In fact, my personal opinion is that the success of Ubuntu has been down to properly maintained and comprehensive apt-repositories. When I left Fedora, yum had nothing in the same league as these, and dependency hell was very much still with the platform.

Fedora is a distro for admins who want ease of use, but not so much ease of use that they lose their jobs. They want the odd error or config mismatch so they need to directly intervene on occasion. So they won't go for debian or especially Ubuntu. On the other hand, they're not going to do all the legwork, so distros like slack or Gentoo are out of the question. Add in paid company support and "enterprise" editions, and you have the perfect distro for the in house admin of a medium to large business.

Re:Great work! (0)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132862)

I find Fedora does a lot less, and doesn't do it as well. The primary example of this is yum, which is a third rate program by comparision to apt. In fact, my personal opinion is that the success of Ubuntu has been down to properly maintained and comprehensive apt-repositories. When I left Fedora, yum had nothing in the same league as these, and dependency hell was very much still with the platform.

So, you mean, you have no direct experience with any recent Fedora, yet wish to criticise it anyway? Glad we got that cleared up. You're also conflating three different things in the above. The package management program has very little to do with what packages are available to it; the comparative quality or otherwise of apt-get and yum has zip all to do with what packages are available in the Fedora or Debian (or Ubuntu) repositories. 'Dependency hell', apart from being so vague these days as to be practically meaningless, is a separate issue again, as it rarely has anything to do with the package manager itself, but is to do with the quality of the packages. Again, given that you don't give any details on your actual current experience with Fedora or the date at which you 'left Fedora', it's hard to place much value in your experiences.

Fedora is a distro for admins who want ease of use, but not so much ease of use that they lose their jobs. They want the odd error or config mismatch so they need to directly intervene on occasion. So they won't go for debian or especially Ubuntu.

Here, I think you dropped this - it's your tin foil hat. Don't answer that door, it's the FBI!

Re:Great work! (2, Interesting)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132990)

The primary example of this is yum, which is a third rate program by comparision to apt. In fact, my personal opinion is that the success of Ubuntu has been down to properly maintained and comprehensive apt-repositories. When I left Fedora, yum had nothing in the same league as these, and dependency hell was very much still with the platform.

It's funny you say that, because that was also my problem - but with apt and debian. Also their repositories contain apps that are stupidly build and are missing features (and if you want those features, you have to compile it yourself which defeats the purpose of using a package manager to begin with).

Re:Great work! (1)

brejc8 (223089) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133444)

I spent 2 years installing apt on fedora machines, and about 3 or 4 years ago I stopped, because yum is now just as good as apt. It has the same features, is just as easy and the performance difference is, to me, not visible.

Re:Great work! (0, Troll)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133042)

What was interesting was the "better than ever tablet support".

With all due respect, it could hardly be worse.

I'm guessing that what that really means is that they've progressed beyond "what's a tablet?" to "ok, we think we know what a tablet is... we added a tablet-looking icon!"

Sadly, I think Linux-in-general is about 5 years behind both Windows and OS X for tablet support. The really sad part of that? Apple doesn't even *make* a tablet. (Although, to be fair, they have a lot of users on Wacom drawing tablets, and that code I'm sure has come in handy for the iPhone. But still.)

Re:Great work! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30133988)

But Redhat still can't beat dpkg (and apt-get or aptitude). IMHO, popularity of Debian based distros, especially Ubuntu, is significantly based on Debian's solid, robust and reliable package manager.

If Redhat makes Yum as reliable and solid, it will help them a lot.

In fact, I don't think any package manager yet compares to dpkg and apt-get and aptitude in terms of user friendliness, robustness, features and reliability.

Fedora? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132044)

Does anybody still use Fedora?

Re:Fedora? (1)

ccandreva (409807) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132084)

Yes.

Re:Fedora? (0)

whitedsepdivine (1491991) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132602)

No.

Re:Fedora? (0)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132680)

0.5

Re:Fedora? (0)

Itadakimasu (1646677) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132778)

Nes.

Re:Fedora? (1)

flabordec (984984) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132984)

SNES!

Re:Fedora? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30133170)

N64ES!

Re:Fedora? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30133316)

SNES

Re:Fedora? (2, Informative)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132140)

Yes. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics [fedoraproject.org] - we have seen over 2.4 million installations of Fedora 11 so far, a 20% increase on Fedora 10. Methodology is extensively discussed on the linked page.

Re:Fedora? (2, Interesting)

whitedsepdivine (1491991) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132700)

They only show the number of installs. I would like to see the number from upgrades, and new install. The better statistic is how long does the average user have it installed.

Fedora 12 is the most exciting release ever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132804)

I have a massive erection and I'm only halfway down downloading it. Talk about blue balls!

Re:Fedora? (1)

armanox (826486) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132274)

Why wouldn't people still use Fedora?

Re:Fedora? (1)

SnarfQuest (469614) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132550)

Because it fails to install on most generic boxes, in my experiences with it. I usually use Debian because it just works.

Re:Fedora? (2, Interesting)

icebike (68054) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132812)

Because it fails to install on most generic boxes,

That may be true for some values of "Generic", but this is less so than in the past.

Historically Fedora installs insecure, requiring that you run around closing ports and shutting down daemons that were set up by default.

Ubuntu and opensuse default to the opposite, which is all the home user really needs.

I can not say that 12 still carries on this absurd Red Hat tradition, because I have not yet given 12 a try.

Re:Fedora? (2, Interesting)

armanox (826486) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133726)

Fedora by default sets up the Firewall (IPtables) to block everything other then SSH and NFS4 IIRC. The daemons can be a mess - I know I don't need Bluetooth services on any of my systems. Fortunately disabling services is simple.

Re:Fedora? (1)

armanox (826486) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133696)

I haven't seen any issues with Fedora installing on Generic boxes. Been using since Red Hat 6.1 on all kinds of systems (I know Fedora dropped support for i585, but, how many people want to run Fedora on a Pentium?)

Re:Fedora? (1)

alukin (184606) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132574)

That's because of "great" F9 release with too many "innovations" like KDE 4.0... But they now recovering from that disease and trying to focus more on regular users and quality. At least F11 was impressive and I hope F12 is. Hell, Ubuntu 9.10 is near F9 by quality. They managed to break intel graphics support right after release! That's terrible.

I honestly hope that guys involved in distro development will not race for "features", they will race on quality instead.

Re:Fedora? (1)

EkriirkE (1075937) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132486)

Yes.

Too bad Linux is only for faggots. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132054)

If you agree that Linux is only for faggots, then mod me down.

it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't install (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132218)

it.

i found two more mouses: a ps2 and a usb and plugged them all in.

3 mice and still can't install.

Thanks for making unix/linux (historically terminal based) another Windows desktop.

I boot Windows and everything is fine with the first mouse. Let me see if Windows can use all 3 mice.

Re:it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't instal (1)

armanox (826486) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132246)

1 - Did you enable Legacy Device Support in your BIOS?
2 - Did you try the text install option?

Re:it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't instal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132432)

i mucked with all bios options conceivable.

i'm up on Windows all all 3 mice (2 usb and a ps2).

I'll take a picture and post it.

I'll leave all 3 mice in, much with BIOS some more and boot the install boot.iso again

they took away text install. the vga or lowres whatever is as good as the first gui install option

Re:it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't instal (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132658)

when you say 'it', what do you mean exactly? did you get f12 final already and try it? if you were testing a pre-release, there was a known bug up till very late which caused USB not to work on some systems, this is fixed in the final release.

Re:it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't instal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132910)

yes, it's f12 from the mirror. http://ftp.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/fedora/releases/12/Fedora/i386/os/images/

another thing is that boot.iso is hidden somewhere...I'm certain it's in the DVD.iso. It means I have to finish torrenting before I could do anything.

I was hoping to boot and http install from informatik.

I'm installing suse 12.2 using 3 mouses now. I'm that fast. I also tried ubuntu but the cd was bad.

sorry to complain. thanks for all the hard work. lately i have to skip fedora release on occasions and run other distros when i can't install.

this is a decent machine (hp dc5000 tower w/ HT).

Re:it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't instal (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133072)

thanks for the info. Well, that sucks :/ you _should_ be able to complete an install - even a graphical one - using only the keyboard (usual tab / space / enter stuff), though I'm not sure if you want to :). The bug I was thinking of is https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=524808 [redhat.com] , you could try the kernel parameter 'intel_iommu=off' or 'iommu=soft' . But I really doubt it's that issue if you're on final, it seemed pretty certain that it was fixed.

Re:it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't instal (1)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132476)

Doesn't always work. I've had this issue with RedHat Linux as well. Sometimes USB just doesn't work very well (RH4/RH5). Haven't run into any version of SuSE/SLES that has the problem, so it's not always the BIOS.

Admittedly, though, I haven't had it with recent versions, only older versions (e.g., RH 4.6 or something).

Re:it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't instal (1)

Simmeh (1320813) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132586)

This happened to a friend of mine with Ubuntu. Was a pain. I made sure it didn't put him off linux though.

Re:it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't instal (1)

alukin (184606) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132636)

Don't even hope! Multi-touch is not supported by windows yet. But there is a chance all 3 mice will work in F12 :)

SystemTap (1)

krelian (525362) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132328)

Also available in this release are SystemTap 1.0 for improved instrumenting and debugging of binaries, complete with Eclipse integration

I've tried SystemTap and it looks really really cool . I understand that this project is "dtrace for linux". Can someone with experience with both tools give a rundown on how SystemTap 1.0 currently compares with dtrace?

Re:SystemTap (4, Informative)

diegocg (1680514) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132686)

I don't know how it compares to dtrace (in this wiki [sourceware.org] it appears that they have feature parity for all the important stuff), but I can tell you that it works quite well and it's very complete and it's well documented. It really deserves the 1.0 version tag.

But in the kernel world very few people seems to use it, it seems that perf + static tracepoints have become the preferred tool for performance diagnostics.

Meh. I'll wait for Fedora 13 (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132356)

They'll work the bugs out of Fedora 12 just in time for Fedora 13 to come out. Plus Fedora 13 will be better. // also holding out for 2160p Hi-Def 3-D Smell-A-Vision

Linux sucks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132376)

Mod me down if you agree that Linux is the worst OS since Windows ME.

Re:Linux sucks (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132518)

Hi there, you must be from Digg. How are things going at the other news aggregate? Still rick rolling each other?

Userbase (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132408)

It is nice always to hear about Fedora. It is a distribution what really deserves bigger userbase than what Ubuntu has. Hopefully Fedora does not loose the place for Ubuntu on amount of users. Nice cutting edge packages (stable!), VERY nice community (much better than what Ubuntu has) and very nice graphics by great artists.

The Fedora is someway very classic feeling distribution what does not try to pretend anything else what it is, like what Ubuntu does. And fedora users are kind and helpfull more than Ubuntu users.

If one distribution we should choose to be our flagship, there are three options, Fedora, openSUSE or Mandriva.

It is just sad that Ubuntu gets all the hype and media, even it is not so nice as Fedora+RedHat combination (compared to Ubuntus 6 months release + LTS).

2012 = year of linux on the desktop (5, Funny)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132488)

OMG it's going to hit us!!!!

Oh, sorry. Wrong story.

Re:2012 = year of linux on the desktop (1)

boudie2 (1134233) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133338)

Nice to see someone else who's spending too much time on /.
Made me laugh! Almost as much as which is better,
Fedora or Ubuntu.

Still no IA64 support... (4, Insightful)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132494)

At least Fedora hasn't suddenly dropped PowerPC with no announcement like OpenSUSE did, but sadly, there's still no new builds of the SPARC and Itanium versions of Fedora. I wonder if they're intentionally trying to drive people to RHEL on these platforms.

Re:Still no IA64 support... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132654)

Actually, PPC has been dropped as a primary architecture for F13. You can always get it (as well as IA64) from the development branch if they don't make an actual release for it. (Se http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora-secondary/development/ )

Re:Still no IA64 support... (1)

diegocg (1680514) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132790)

Maybe nobody cares about Itanium and Sparc (well, some people cares about sparc, but they probably use opensolaris) and there are not enought volunteers to handle those arches with the same priority x86 has?

Re:Still no IA64 support... (1)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132960)

Red Hat evidently cares enough about Itanium to continue developing RHEL for it.

Re:Still no IA64 support... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30133534)

Itanium is a small market, but the dollar figures are quite large.

However the GP's point might be that nobody is going to volunteer to maintain IA64 support. It's paid for by Intel/HP and their customers.

Dead platforms.... (1, Insightful)

jmorris42 (1458) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132864)

Dude, PPC is dead so get over it. The PS3/Cell was the last hardware you could actually buy and it dropped support for Linux in the latest hardware rev. And the previous support was crippled to the point of pointlessness.

SPARC is long in the grave. SPARC64 is still around but again, nobody actually has anything other than old ancient stuff that isn't going to have the resources for a pig[1] like Fedora. Excepting a few peeps buying new hardware, but they are going to run Solaris on new gear. Old zombie platforms is what NetBSD is for.

Itanium? Yes HP is still making a half-hearted effort to move units but really. Nice try but it too has failed in the marketplace.

These days the action is in small. ARM and MIPS are what we should be looking for in ports these days.

[1] No a slam, if you track current desktops, OO.o, FF, etc. the result is going to oink.

Re:Dead platforms.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30133182)

Someone please mark the above as troll.

Check IBM and other hardware vendors for PPC and Power CPUs.

Do you know what CPU is in the Wii and XBox360?

Have you used Fedora recently? It has come along ways since 1.0, and 2.0 where it required a lot of resources. I'm not fan of it, but the last recent was really nice. But I'm still a Debian fan when it comes to Gnu/Linux.

I'm shocked to see you mention MIPS and ARM, as being current ports, and not Sparc or PPC/Power.

What you are saying is like, why do people care about Gnu/Linux, when there is OpenSolaris, and OpenBSD.

Please someone mark the above post as troll.

Re:Dead platforms.... (1)

tolan-b (230077) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133212)

Hacked Xbox 360s run PPC Linux :)

Re:Dead platforms.... (2, Informative)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133700)

PowerPC is doing very well in the embedded space, thank you very much. Freescale just released an 8-core CPU that runs Linux very well. I admit that Fedora 12 may not be a good distro for embedded devices, but you're spreading FUD when you put PowerPC in the same category as SPARC and Itanium.

Re:Dead platforms.... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30133904)

The itanium is still very much a good product, it simply has a very niche market. I have built and maintain a great deal of ia64 clusters, primarily for Nastran. For that particular product, it kicks fucking ass over all others for price/performance. Why would you use fedora on a system that costs 90k per node? Just use RHEL, sheesh.

Not just IA64 either (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30133044)

The same applies to Xen. STILL no Xen Dom0 support. Come on, guys. Fedora is nice and all, but most of the Virtualization research, and advances, is with Xen.

RHE follows the same path. Yeah, RH pays token, grudging lipservice to Xen. But the efforts there are half hearted and what they offer is so old as the not be of interest.

I know RH invested money and placed their bet on KVM. But it's a bad bet to piss off your customers. And right now, I'm looking elsewhere.

Market, Not Conspiracy (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133066)

That would make sense if Fedora were a server OS. But it's not. Can you name a single in-production workstation based on Itanium or Sparc? Don't say "Sun" -- they dropped their last Sparc workstation over a year ago.

I don't know which platforms RHEL currently supports (redhat.com is quite unhelpful on that score) but Googling the site doesn't turn up anything for the Sparc or IA64 later than 2007. I suspect Red Hat is just not interested in non-commodity architectures any more.

Fedora Server Hammered (of course) (1)

gyrogeerloose (849181) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132540)

I just tried to download the Live CD--according to my browser's download manager, it was going to take16 hours! No better luck with FTP from the command line either. You may want to wait until tomorrow.

Re:Fedora Server Hammered (of course) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132624)

mirrors much?

Re:Fedora Server Hammered (of course) (1)

gyrogeerloose (849181) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132714)

Yeah, tried several--same problem. Finally found one that worked via FTP.

More Torrents == Faster Fedora12 Downloads (4, Informative)

SgtChaireBourne (457691) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132974)

Yeah, tried several--same problem. Finally found one that worked via FTP.

Once you get it, help others get Fedora. Bandwidth schedulers can help if you're concerned about that. The demand will be there for a few days as people get it for work. Home users will try on the weekend, so if you can, help out by leaving your torrent up for a week or so.

64 bit x86:

Others:

Sources:
Fedora 12 source CDs [fedoraproject.org]
Fedora 12 source DVD [fedoraproject.org]

Re:More Torrents == Faster Fedora12 Downloads (1)

brejc8 (223089) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133388)

Currently downloading and saturating my 100Mbps connection.

Re:Fedora Server Hammered (of course) (4, Informative)

SUB7IME (604466) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132646)

Or grab a torrent! http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ [fedoraproject.org]

Re:Fedora Server Hammered (of course) (1)

und0 (928711) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132802)

You can try to join the BitTorrent swarm...

Re:Fedora Server Hammered (of course) (1)

reub2000 (705806) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133492)

Use bittorrent for anything that everyone else and their grandmother is currently downloading.

Bug Report (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30132572)

Description of problem:
Using Fedora feels like having loads of useless junk thrust down your throat.

Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):
Fedora 12 (Constantine)

How reproducible:
Getting worse with each release.

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Do something that worked fine in the last release.
2.
3.

Actual results:
Discover it's been replaced with some half-baked half-assed piece of crap
that probably ends in "Kit", which will probably be thrown away before it
even gets finished, and replaced with something else. Someone just had
to over-engineer a solution to some supposed problem (that nobody ever cared
about before), so that it can be solved in some way that requires six more
background daemons.

Expected results:
Some existing components get improved for once, rather than spending all the
development effort on re-inventing square wheels and designing even more
ghastly wallpaper.

Additional info:
I would particularly like to thank the DeviceKit-disks people for replacing
hal-disable-polling with "devkit-disks --inhibit-all-polling" , which has to be
left running. Perhaps they would appreciate being sent an email every 10
seconds to keep them informed about the contents of my DVD drive.

heres hoping (1)

nimbius (983462) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132628)

theyve fixed some pulseaudio bugs while they were at it.

Re:heres hoping (3, Insightful)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133028)

theyve fixed pulseaudio while they were at it.

fixed that for you. :)

Re:heres hoping (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30133368)

There are no bugs in pulseaudio, the only problem with pulseaudio is you don't love it enough. If everyone could just get to know pulseaudio, to see it for what it truly is rather than just what you read about it, then I think you will find that pulseaudio not only manages your sound, but saves the environment, fixes the economy, cures cancer, and creates world peace.

You would have to be insane not to use pulseaudio, however that requirement will not be a problem for me...

Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver... (3, Interesting)

Saint Aardvark (159009) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132652)

I notice in the release notes [fedoraproject.org] they're using the Nouveau [freedesktop.org] driver for NVidia cards. I've been meaning to check the status of that driver for a while now -- but is this common in distros yet? (I'm a sysadmin mostly working on servers, so I'm a little out of touch. :-)

Re:Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver... (1)

Simian Man (1472911) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133232)

As far as I know, Fedora is the first distro to use it by default. I'm really impressed with the progress they've made. Plymouth is quick, pretty and flicker free. I'm also using Xfce's built in compositing and everything is snappy looking. 2D games and videos work great.

Re:Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver... (3, Informative)

brejc8 (223089) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133280)

It works, and it works amazingly well. I admin 50+ machines and I used to always install both the nvidia and ati closed drivers because users want compiz. A year ago ati cards started working out the box, now so does nvidia.

Re:Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver... (2, Informative)

diegocg (1680514) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133350)

According to the feature matrix [freedesktop.org] , they are already done with 2D support, video playback, dual head, Xrand, KMS and suspend/resume for all the chips, which are the neccesary functions for a functional gnome/kde desktop (minus compiz), so it's not suprising that distros are starting to include it.

Re:Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30133694)

My wife's Dell D820 laptop suspends and resume properly with the nouveau driver. It doesn't do 3D, but I don't use 3D apps very often. I'll install the Nvidia binaries when I have to.

Re:Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver... (1)

reub2000 (705806) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133896)

The livecd is the very first operating system to correctly configure my dual-head setup out of the box. Good work.

Will this become RHEL/CentOS 6 (1)

MaraDNS (1629201) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132696)

Does anyone have any information about whether this particular release will become RHEL 6? While I am happy with RHEL (CentOS, actually) 5, it doesn't work with my 2007-era laptop's hardware. The Wiki page claims it does, but the reference backing it up is a 2008 article speculating on RHEL's future.

Re:Will this become RHEL/CentOS 6 (0, Redundant)

phunster (701222) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133230)

In short no. The RHEL 5 series (CENTOS too) is based on Fedora 6, so I doubt that Fedora 12 is the basis for the upcoming RHEL 6.

Re:Will this become RHEL/CentOS 6 (1)

evol262 (721773) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133738)

Our RedHat account manager indicates that RHEL6 will probably be based off F11 with some parts (likely the KVM bits) of F12.

Re:Will this become RHEL/CentOS 6 (1)

mowall (865642) | more than 4 years ago | (#30134038)

Does anyone have any information about whether this particular release will become RHEL 6?

The last info I saw on it was from this article [h-online.com] .

Ubuntu influence on marketing materials (4, Insightful)

ewg (158266) | more than 4 years ago | (#30132828)

You can really see the Ubuntu influence on the Fedora marketing materials: smiling faces, happy about "software that helps you work, play, organize, and socialize." Wait, did Fedora even have marketing materials before Ubuntu?

Re:Ubuntu influence on marketing materials (2, Insightful)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133100)

``Wait, did Fedora even have marketing materials before Ubuntu?''

They didn't need to, because they are the free version of Red Hat and Red Hat _was_ Linux in a lot of people's minds.

But when Ubuntu came around, it quickly got so popular that it scared the big distros into getting their act together. Ubuntu's killer combo was the combination of working package management with ease of use. Nowadays, that's sort of what people have come to expect from a Linux distro, but, before Ubuntu, that was far from given.

Unfortunately, Ubuntu seems to have lost its way. Every new release seems to introduce a lot of breakage, which in my opinion, outright destroys ease of use.

Maybe Fedora is the way to go, these days. They also compile their software with stack smashing protection, right? I think I'm going to give it a go.

Re:Ubuntu influence on marketing materials (2, Interesting)

jimicus (737525) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133242)

``Wait, did Fedora even have marketing materials before Ubuntu?''

They didn't need to, because they are the free version of Red Hat and Red Hat _was_ Linux in a lot of people's minds.

But when Ubuntu came around, it quickly got so popular that it scared the big distros into getting their act together. Ubuntu's killer combo was the combination of working package management with ease of use.

The only amazing thing about that was it took RedHat so long to get their act together. rpm needed some way of searching package repositories for years. Mandrake had urpmi and Debian had apt-get years before RedHat had anything comparable.

Re:Ubuntu influence on marketing materials (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133408)

``Mandrake had urpmi and Debian had apt-get years before RedHat had anything comparable.''

Yeah. And as a result of that, there are _still_ people who believe software installation on Linux is hard. That hasn't been true for over 10 years ... unless you choose to do it the hard way, or choose to run a distro that doesn't provide an easy way.

Re:Ubuntu influence on marketing materials (1)

someSnarkyBastard (1521235) | more than 4 years ago | (#30133610)

Maybe Im just being a silly git here but I thought Fedora's main competencies were being on the bleeding-edge, security, and virtualization. In fact, the release notes include a blurb about lowering a lot of process and file permissions to lock things down tigher.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>