Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

645 comments

Is she really sure it was locked? (5, Insightful)

Mr. Freeman (933986) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192642)

First question, is she sure it was actually locked down? Some of those settings sound like nonsense to the non-technical.
Second, is she the one that posted the photos? If someone else posted photos of her on a public page, anyone can see them.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (5, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192656)

Second, is she the one that posted the photos? If someone else posted photos of her on a public page, anyone can see them.

Exactly, and because of tag-a-person-in-photo feature it's quite easy to find the photos too.

She said her insurance agent described several pictures Blanchard posted on the popular social networking site, including ones showing her having a good time at a Chippendales bar show, at her birthday party and on a sun holiday — evidence that she is no longer depressed, Manulife said.

This is evidence that she is no longer depressed? Depression is a lot deeper thing than that. Obviously you have happy moments and can smile on birthday party or on holiday. But in no way that mean that you really feel good and like that always. And I think you're supposed to try to have fun, so that said depression would actually go away.

"We can't ignore it, wherever the source of the information is," she said. "We can't ignore it."

Like a depressed person wants to always show everyone that she is depressed? Facebook isn't a complete picture in to your life. It is what the person posts there, and usually people like to make themself look good and not like a depressed wreck.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (5, Insightful)

epiphani (254981) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192824)

Like a depressed person wants to always show everyone that she is depressed? Facebook isn't a complete picture in to your life. It is what the person posts there, and usually people like to make themself look good and not like a depressed wreck.

My best friend and my brother have both had severe depression problems. It is quite possible to be out and functioning at moderate levels of depression - talking, smiling, looking like you're enjoying yourself. I think one described it something like this:

I was standing there having a conversation, smiling and laughing, while thinking about different ways I could kill myself to get out of that situation.

So you know what, fuck you Manulife. You are in no situation to reverse a doctors' diagnosis based on some pictures you found on the internet.

Then you can work, thief! (0, Troll)

tjstork (137384) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192970)

My best friend and my brother have both had severe depression problems. It is quite possible to be out and functioning at moderate levels of depression - talking, smiling, looking like you're enjoying yourself. I think one described it something like this:

If you can be out and functioning, then you can function at your goddamned desk and stop trying to rob those people who do show up to work despite their depression.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (5, Insightful)

elecmahm (1194167) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192976)

I don't have severe depression, but that old black beast does occasionally roll around on me. At my worst time I would appear completely normal, and occasionally even have brief periods where I could smile and laugh. It just doesn't last though, when you're depressed. Shame on the insurance company, though. I think the most appropriate recourse would be to find the executives names on the annual report, look them up, and start rooting through their trash, and post anything embarassing found in a public place. Maybe even follow them around with a camera and record every little thing they do. If they want to invade privacy that much, then fair's fair.

The agent's no expert. (4, Insightful)

TheLink (130905) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192846)

Yeah.

A cancer patient might be rather sick, but make an extra effort for special events.

What next? They're going to cancel insurance for cancer patients if they look like they're better?

An insurance agent is unlikely to be an authoritative expert on medical matters (or in the rarefied field of "psychiatric diagnosis via facebook photos") - they may know some stuff (just like I do), but when it comes to a court case or other legal stuff it should not be their call to make. If the insurance company has doubts they should insist that the policy holder be examined by a certified expert in the relevant field. After all, it's not unusual that you have to go for a medical examination when you sign up for certain sorts of insurance. They don't just leave it to an insurance agent to say "hmm she looks ok to me".

Too bad if her case is genuine she'll likely be too depressed to sue them (unless she can afford her meds and is still taking them).

Re:The agent's no expert. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192924)

unless she can afford her meds

Most of the meds here are extremely low-cost or even refunded in some cases. That's the one part of the socialist health care program that works correctly.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (4, Informative)

digitalchinky (650880) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192962)

Just to expand on the tag a photo thing...

If your profile is completely private to me, but not to someone in my friends list - and you happen to tag a common friend for both of us in one of your own galleries, then that'll show up on my wall - I click on the picture and get full access to that particular gallery. (Maybe there's an option to stop it doing that, but I currently see it happening every day)

Profiles aren't really private anyway, if you know the full link to a particular image then you can view it regardless of user settings. Where to get such links? All over the place. Proxy, cache, etc.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (5, Funny)

dmbasso (1052166) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192776)

Nah, probably it was a female "friend" that handed her pictures to the insurance company.

That reminded me of a joke where a man calls every of his wife's female friends, asking each one if she had slept over with them, and receives the same "no, not here" answer. Another night the reverse happens, and the wife call's every of her husband male friends. Everyone answer "yes, he was here all night" and five of them even responds "he's still here, in the bathroom"! :-)

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (0, Redundant)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192836)

Huh?

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192894)

You're not the only one. I don't get it either.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (2, Informative)

Ruede (824831) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192944)

the male friends are real friends because they cover the ass of their friend that is supposedly in the bathroom of each of the 5 friend's. where at the same time the chicks dont do that for their female friend.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192946)

You need to get out more.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30193046)

It's a joke, you twit. If anything, the fact that he "got it" means that he gets out plenty enough. If you didn't, it sounds to me like you need to get out more.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (3, Informative)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192916)

The women are brutally honest. The guys are covering for each other.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192978)

Or maybe the friends of the women think that if she isn't at home, she's probably in trouble, in which case it would be not only unhelpful, but counterproductive to claim she's there. However the friends of the men assume that if he is not at home, he's probably betraying his wive, so they cover his ass.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (-1, Offtopic)

coolforsale117 (1683870) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192880)

http://www.coolforsale.com/ [coolforsale.com] Dear ladies and gentlemen Hello, In order to meet Christmas, Site launched Christmas spree, welcome new and old customers come to participate in the there are unexpected surprises, look forward to your arrival. Only this site have this treatmentOur goal is "Best quality, Best reputation , Best services". Your satisfaction is our main pursue. You can find the best products from us, meeting your different needs.Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products . Pass by but don't missit.Select your favorite clothing! Welcome to come next time ! Thank you! http://www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp?id=s76 [coolforsale.com] (Tracksuit w) ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket, Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33 Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $35 Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&g) $35 Tshirts (Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste) $16 free shipping Thanks!!! Advance wish you a merry Christmas.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192918)

what do you mean locked down ? i used to work for a PI and we had access to everyones profiles all the time. facebook does not restrict information if you are a corp with a PI license. you dont need to friend anyone. its incredibly convenient. see the facebook tos :
We may also share information when we have a good faith belief it is NECESSARY TO PREVENT FRAUD or other illegal activity, to prevent imminent bodily harm, or to protect ourselves and you from people violating our Statement of Rights and Responsibilities. This may include sharing information with other companies, lawyers, courts or other government entities.

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (1)

johnlcallaway (165670) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193012)

More likely she pissed someone off and they called the insurance company. I know I've wanted to do that when someone I knew cheated on their income tax big time and they pissed me off. I didn't do it, but I wanted to.

It's not even the last question, actually (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193024)

"First question, is she sure it was actually locked down?"

That isn't even close to the first question. In fact it is what is known as entirely moot. Pictures of someone on the beach smiling, regardless of their origin, aren't even remotely close to proof that they don't experience severe depression. You would have to be some kind of incompetent evil moron to be in a position to make such decisions at an insurance company and still make such a decision. They know damn well what they hold in their hand is not proof of anything. What they hold is an excuse they offer up for their outlandish behaviour . Who cares from whence the excuse is derived?

Re:Is she really sure it was locked? (-1, Offtopic)

coolforsale117 (1683870) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193050)

http://www.coolforsale.com/ [coolforsale.com] Dear ladies and gentlemen Hello, In order to meet Christmas, Site launched Christmas spree, welcome new and old customers come to participate in the there are unexpected surprises, look forward to your arrival. Only this site have this treatmentOur goal is "Best quality, Best reputation , Best services". Your satisfaction is our main pursue. You can find the best products from us, meeting your different needs.Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products . Pass by but don't missit.Select your favorite clothing! Welcome to come next time ! Thank you! http://www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp?id=s76 [coolforsale.com] (Tracksuit w) ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket, Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33 Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $35 Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&g) $35 Tshirts (Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste) $16 free shipping Thanks!!! Advance wish you a merry Christmas.

Her lawyer should pursue this. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192648)

*sigh* Well, speaking as a depressive I can say that a good part of the treatment that a psychiatrist suggests to their patients, besides their antidepressants, is to engage in social activities outside the home. They also say that staying cooped up at home and failing to get out can lead to a relapse and readmission to hospital. The Insurance company is not licensed to practice medicine, only to read a doctor's diagnosis and pay what's due.

Re:Her lawyer should pursue this. (4, Insightful)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192764)

And you are hardly going to be post pictures of when you're unhappy, and people tend to smile just for photos, so you get a selective image of someone.

Re:Her lawyer should pursue this. (5, Informative)

Tim C (15259) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192828)

Not to mention that a very close friend of mine has serious depression (she's not so bad at the moment, but has been hospitalised for her own safety before), and she can sound absolutely fine on the phone in the morning, and be totally withdrawn and uncommunicative in the afternoon. She can also be on a serious downer, yet sound fine on the phone to other people - in other words, put a brave face on things.

Re:Her lawyer should pursue this. (3, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192850)

So will this new "no denial for existing conditions" Congressional law stop this stuff from happening? I hope so. I understand insurance companies need to watch out for fraudsters, but they should have more evidence than "we saw her smiling" to deny coverage.

Re:Her lawyer should pursue this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30193006)

So will this new "no denial for existing conditions" Congressional law stop this stuff from happening?

Last time I checked Quebec was in Canada, so no.

they should have more evidence than "we saw her smiling" to deny coverage.

RTFA, they did have other evidence.

Re:Her lawyer should pursue this. (1)

NotBornYesterday (1093817) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193036)

You would think that if it took a doctor's diagnosis to get her on disability, it should take one to get her off disability. This is far different than those video stings where someone (insurance company, PI, investigative "news") films some guy lifting 100 lbs over his head after he claims his back injury prevents him from working. Depression isn't like physical disabilities. You can't x-ray depression like a broken bone and point at the problem, or prove its absence.

Re:Her lawyer should pursue this. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192766)

I have suffered from depression at some times in my life.

I found that you 'put on a face' sometimes to live a normal life. People around you don't want to see people with a miserable expression, talking in a depressive way and acting depressed all the time.

The way we appear look socially is virtually never a direct reflection of the way we really feel, for anyone, depressed or not. We choose how much of what we really feel we communicate to others. If this were not the case then it would be impossible even to go shopping while clinically depressed.

If the social situation calls for smiling and looking cheerful, well, that's what you do.

Re:Her lawyer should pursue this. (2, Funny)

X10 (186866) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192842)

Apparently, the insurance company people are masochists. They want the woman to stay home and get even more depressed, so they can pay her more money.

Re:Her lawyer should pursue this. (1)

Jiro (131519) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192848)

The original article has this, posted four hours before the above comment:

Part of the treatment that a psychiatrist suggests to their patients, besides their antidepressants, is to engage in social activities outside the home. They also say that staying cooped up at home and failing to get out can lead to a relapse and readmission to hospital. The Insurance company is not licensed to practice medicine, only to read a doctor's diagnosis and pay what's due. Her lawyer should pursue this.

Re:Her lawyer should pursue this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192884)

I know some who suffer from depression, also have read about it, and that is the advice that is given out by professionals in the medical profession. Depressed people do smile sometimes, but it is much less often than those who don't suffer from the problem.

So what if she was caught in one of those rare happy moments? And is it possible that the smiles were forced for the photos?

I think she would have a case against the insurance company.

I wonder if the opposite is true? (3, Interesting)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192954)

If Facebook photos are the standard by which we're judging whether or not people should be paid insurance claims for being depressed, I wonder if I can use that?

No, I'm not depressed. I mean, I have ups and downs like everyone else, but I don't think it's so severe to be classified as a medical condition. Still, I could certainly churn out a few photos when I'm feeling down one day and post them. Then maybe I could call my insurance company and tell them, "See? I'm depressed! It's right there on Facebook!"

Well yes... (2, Insightful)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192652)

... because people with depression must wear black on the outside, as black as they feel on the inside.

Yet another reason why private healthcare must be stopped. Curing people doesn't come into it - it's about keeping them sick enough to stay profitable.

Re:Well yes... (4, Funny)

MoeDumb (1108389) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192700)

"Yet another reason why private healthcare must be stopped." That's a reason to destroy the greatest healthcare system in the free world? Where are mod points when you need them.

Re:Well yes... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192720)

>That's a reason to destroy the greatest healthcare system in the free world?

Mod +5 Funny

Re:Well yes... (1, Insightful)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192762)

Lol, 'greatest healthcare system in the free world', you're stretching the limits of sarcasm here I hope.

Re:Well yes... (-1, Troll)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192892)

Please note that US Healthcare is essentially zero. My dad had a damaged shouler, and they had it fixed just 2 weeks later. (more below)

UK HEALTHCARE WAITING TIMES
8 months - cataract surgery
11 months- hip replacement
12 months- knee replacement
5 months - slipped disc
5 months - hernia repair
- SOURCE - The BBC, May 2009

PROSTATE 5-YEAR CANCER SURVIVOR RATE
100%- United States
90% - Canada
77% - United Kingdom

*this* is just one example of many, why people say the U.S. has the best healthcare in the world, because the cure rate is soooo much higher than in countries where care is monopolized by the government. MEP Daniel Hannan said in early August, "The worst thing to be is elderly under the UK Health System..... you will be denied care and left starving in wards."

Re:Well yes... (5, Informative)

odourpreventer (898853) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192996)

> why people say the U.S. has the best healthcare in the world

Then why is USA ranked 37th in the world, whereas UK is ranked 18th?

Re:Well yes... (1)

uxbn_kuribo (1146975) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192822)

now now, no one wants to destroy the Canadian healthcare system

Re:Well yes... (2, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192876)

>>>"Yet another reason why private healthcare must be stopped."

Why? So we can switch to a government system where they ration care, like sayng, "Raise the mmamogram age from 40 to 50," and "We don't need annual PAP smears. Every three years is good enough." That last one really bother me because it reminds me of the story from the UK, where a college aged woman was told "no" every time she asked for a PAP smear *even though he grandmother and mother* had cervical cancer, and therefore she was high risk.

She then developed cervical cancer at age 25 and died shortly thereafter. Government rations. That's the whole reason why "NICE" exists in the UK - to deny care.

Re:Well yes... (2, Insightful)

Nuskrad (740518) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192950)

Or possibly, it's because the scientific [bmj.com] evidence shows that reducing the screening age doesn't make much difference in reducing cancer rates, and the number of false positives at younger ages means that more people would have to go through lots of unnecessary stress and months of tests and unnecessary, potentially harmful treatments. It doesn't have anything to do with money.

Re:Well yes... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192964)

As opposed to the rationing we have now? You know, like in the goddamn article we're discussing?

Battle of anecdotes? (1)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192984)

That last one really bother me because it reminds me of the story from the UK...

Oh man, you do NOT want to go there. If you get into a battle of anecdotes on the issue of public versus private health care, you will be killed on that debate every time.

Seriously.

Don't make me go digging through all of the stories of people who have been screwed over and scammed by private insurance companies, because it will take at least a couple of weeks to write the book about it.

Re:Well yes... (1)

Conorflan (1651239) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193008)

NICE is independent of the NHS and government. Certain procedures and medication is not made payable on the NHS because of extortionately high costs by the pharmaceutical companies. Also if you want you can buy health insurance and be treated by private hospitals. Difference is that here we're all covered (from what I understand in the US that's changing though), if you can afford health insurance you can get it, or if you're sceptical of socialised healthcare go ahead and get health insurance. Some companies even subsidise or pay for it - my Mum's University offer the choice.

Re:Well yes... (4, Interesting)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192900)

That's a reason to destroy the greatest healthcare system in the free world?

      How does Cuba come into this?

      You think I'm joking, but for the dollars invested per capita, Cuba has the greatest health care system in the world. Look it up.

Re:Well yes... (2, Insightful)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193038)

Ahaahahahahahahahahaha. Oh wait, you were serious, let me laugh even harder.

Private healthcare is a very, very, very distant runner up to a properly managed universal system. Just ask someone in France or Sweden or Cuba (or gasp, even in the UK if they'd actually fix it properly) if they'd trade for the private system as it exists in the US.

There's a reason the US is ranked 67th on the list.

"Greatest healthcare in the free world, if you ignore the 66 other countries above us!"

Re:Well yes... (1)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193042)

*correction, or maybe 35th or something. I forget the exact figure - google it. It's nowhere near the top though.

Re:Well yes... (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193062)

P.S.

Here are the new taxes in the just-passed House bill:

1 individual mandate tax (~$2500 fine for not having insurance - where is this in the Constitution?)
2 employer mandate tax (matching fine)
3 40% on cadillac plans
4 medicine cabinet tax
5 HSA withdrawal tax hike
6 excise tax on children's hospitals (that greedy Johns Hopkins - let's show 'em Congress means business)
7 tax on innovator drug companies (you know, people inventing new ideas to save lives - let's Discourage them)
8 tax on medical device manfacturers (damn pacemaker companies- let's screw those guys)
9 tax on health insurers
10 tax on employer-provided free coverage (damn those employers for being generous)
11 raises "haircut" for itemized medical deduction (???)
12 hike the Medicare tax (thanks AARP)
13 BlueCross/Shield tax hike
14 tax on cosmetic procedures

So for five years, in the middle of the second Great Depression, we're going to be taxed to death. And then, if we're lucky, they'll start giving us free government care in 2015. Well not really free of course. ---- Some of these like taxing Botox I'm okay with. Tax luxuries. But what the heck are they doing taxing R&D and manufacturing companies for? If anybody should be tax free, it should be them, since they are creating the pills and devices that make saving lives possible.

And what the hell is up with the fine, simply because I choose to not have insurance? (rifles through Constitution). Ahhh here it is: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are RESERVED TO THE STATES respectively, or to the PEOPLE." What's next??? Fining me because my new car was a conventional 44mpg Civic, instead of a 45mpg Prius hybrid?!?!? What's the precedent is set to fine people for not buying a product, then it can be extended to other areas.

Damn, damn , damn them all to hell!
(reaches for musket)
I've had enough.

Re:Well yes... (2, Insightful)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192702)

Curing people doesn't come into it - it's about keeping them sick enough to stay profitable.

No, it's about taking the money of the healthy people and finding any excuse to get rid of the sick (cause they cost money). What you said doesn't make any sense.

Re:Well yes... (2, Insightful)

Pyrion (525584) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192810)

He's confusing insurance companies with pharmaceutical companies. Insurance companies want you to stay as healthy as possible requiring as few doctor's visits, treatments and prescriptions as possible for them to stay profitable. Pharmaceutical companies want you to stay as sick as possible while only providing marginal, long-term treatment (almost never a flat-out "cure") for them to stay profitable.

Re:Well yes... (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192932)

So who wins in this tug-of-war? The insurance companies who want people healthy, or the drugmakers who want people sick?

In my case the insurance companies lose, since I don't have insurance. It's cheaper to pay my ~$200 per year doctor's visit, than to pay ~$4000 a year to the insurance scam artists. The way they operate reminds me of these guys: http://worldwidescam.info/ [worldwidescam.info] They are like a giant Ponzi scheme

Re:Well yes... (1)

Rich0 (548339) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192988)

In my case it is cheaper to pay $0 per year for home repairs than to pay $1000 (or whatever) for fire insurance. That is, unless I'm unlucky enough to have a fire.

The whole point of insurance is that it ISN'T supposed to pay as much as it takes in for a typical person.

Of course, in the US health insurance isn't really insurance - it is more of a purchasing plan for healthcare services. It would work a whole lot better if:
1. Insurance was catastrophic care only. Premiums would be a LOT lower, and everybody would have something like a $5k deductible. Most people would go almost all of their lives without filing a claim. However, if somebody does need bypass surgery or whatever they won't lose their home.
2. Care providers could only charge exactly one rate to all people. It could be based on medical complexity, but it couldn't be based on how you pay as long as you pay on time. No more group rates. They essentially discriminate against people who aren't in a group and force everybody to have to haggle every little bill.
3. All rates must be published. Unless you're unable to make decisions you cannot be billed a dime if you didn't agree to the amount BEFORE services are rendered. Sure, there can be allowances for complications during surgery, or whatever, but they need to be rare and their likelihood must be disclosed in advance.

All of this will make health insurance a lot more like auto insurance, which most people would agree is expensive but probably not unreasonably so in light of the liabilities/etc involved. When you need an oil change you don't file an insurance claim for it.

Re:Well yes... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192838)

Huh? Why on Earth would a health insurance company want to keep people sick? That makes no sense at all; they are your best friend when you're completely healthy and making payments, but as soon as you get the sniffles they stop taking your calls. Part of me wants the public option available just to stick it to these scumbags.

Re:Well yes... (0)

TheMeuge (645043) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192854)

Yet another reason why private healthcare must be stopped. Curing people doesn't come into it - it's about keeping them sick enough to stay profitable.

Did you really get modded Insightful for that?

How thick do you have to be to think that:
a) you should receive "long-term benefits" for being depressed, yet find the strength to go out to the beach and to parties (why can't you find the strength to go to work - the rest of us are depressed and go...)
b) that a government-run system would not do the same.

Listen, public healthcare could not, even theoretically, be run any more than about 15% more efficiently than private (profit margins minus administrative costs). If it would be run the way you envision it (everyone gets everything for every possible and impossible reason), the entire country would be utterly bankrupt in a decade. Instead what you will have is a MORE intrusive system, because as a customer you'd have no recourse against its failures.

I think you may be too busy trying to "win". Perhaps you should use that thing your tongue is attached to (your head) more often instead.

Re:Well yes... (4, Informative)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192874)

Yet another reason why private healthcare must be stopped. Curing people doesn't come into it - it's about keeping them sick enough to stay profitable.

      As a doctor I am disgusted by your remark. There's something called the Hippocratic Oath, you know. Insurance companies also have a vested interest in insuring only healthy people. Now I can't vouch for our cousins in the pharmaceutical industry who have ALWAYS been about the money, and make no allusions otherwise (hence their use of the Caduceus - the staff of Mercury god of Business, rather than the Asclepius or "healing" staff we doctors use). After all, the ideal situation for them is for all patients to become chronic, pill taking customers.

      But those of us who actually provide the healthcare ONLY have the patient's full recovery in mind, when that's possible. The only thing we have to balance here is our own personal lives and time (doctors are people too - we have families, we have hobbies, and we get stressed - especially since most patients are ungrateful and we rarely hear the words "thank you" when we do our job well: we're just "expected" to do it). Being realistic, however, it's not always possible to "cure" everyone.

Re:Well yes... (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192904)

You're getting it confused. It's doctors with the conflict of interest. Insurance providers want you to feel healthy, but always be afraid of becoming sick, so you pay for, but never actually use, their services.

*rolls eyes*

Re:Well yes... (0, Flamebait)

tjstork (137384) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192974)

Yet another reason why private healthcare must be stopped. Curing people doesn't come into it - it's about keeping them sick enough to stay profitable.

Yet another reason socialized healthcare must be stopped. Curing people doesn't come into it - it's about keeping them slaves of the government to stay in power.

Fixed that for you.

Re:Well yes... (1)

srw (38421) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192992)

Yet another reason why private healthcare must be stopped. Curing people doesn't come into it - it's about keeping them sick enough to stay profitable.

What? Do you realize this story takes place in Canada? (The land of public health.) This story has nothing to do with healthcare. She won't have her "healthcare" cut off... It's her "income replacement" payments that were cut off. She could end up destitute in a cardboard box, but the medical system will still take care of her health.

First post (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192654)

I've been waiting years to get this ..... AC

How? Could have been any "friend" (2, Insightful)

danerthomas (1633403) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192662)

Suppose she has friended coworkers who know that she is collecting disability pay for depression but is posting party pics. Or suppose that the pics were posted by others who have not limited access to them. If she is tagged and the photos aren't actively blocked to outside viewers, they are fair game.

Re:How? Could have been any "friend" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192920)

Why a friend? AFAIK facebook applications can access your pictures also.

All it takes then is a developer with a small farm of facebook applications who sells access to facebook profiles to insurance companies. (Either directly or through a intermediary like a Private investigator.)

Duh (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192676)

"Besides all the obvious questions, how did the insurance company access her locked Facebook profile?"
She blindly accepted a friend request from her insurance company's friendly insurance claims adjuster.

Well.. (5, Funny)

mutube (981006) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192686)

I guess she's feeling pretty depressed right now. Does that mean she can have the insurance back?

If she wasn't depressed before she must be now (3, Insightful)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192704)

Facebook has so many little loopholes and you can be sharing information without realising it. I know a few people who think their accounts are locked down andyou can't view anything from their profile page. However their photo albums show up in other areas even if you can access it from their profile page. I assume they've not set the right settings for that particular album.

This is why I don't use my real name on Facebook or use my exact location. It may mean friends, relatives, etc find it harder to find me but if I want to speak to them then I'll look for them.

Re:If she wasn't depressed before she must be now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192818)

This is why I don't use my real name on Facebook or use my exact location. It may mean friends, relatives, etc find it harder to find me but if I want to speak to them then I'll look for them.

Oh good, you're safe then, because none of those friends, relatives, etc will tag pictures with your real name or location.

Facebook is a special kind of evil, kind of like Google. Too much personal information in one place.

Re:If she wasn't depressed before she must be now (3, Interesting)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192930)

Luckily, I've not really felt the need to add relatives to Facebook. It's mainly people I know from various forums and they don't know much more mainly because I wouldn't be silly enough to mention something like my employer's name on something like Facebook.

I think something like Facebook can be good but too many people think it's private. If you view it as never being private then you're probably going to be fine.

Re:If she wasn't depressed before she must be now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192864)

It's much more likely that one of her facebook friends or her family dobbed her in because they don't believe she is really depressed (or that being depressed isn't that serious).

People can be very vindictive and nosy, and ignorance about mental illnesses is high. There are any number of people out there who believe depressed people should just "man up" or "stop being so sad".

Evil (5, Insightful)

Aldenissin (976329) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192708)

Evil insurance company, plain and simple. I am not saying that they all are, but this is beyond grasping at straws. This is healing someone because they are sick, and them kicking them to the curb and throwing them out because they show signs of recovery. She should sue them for making the depression worse. We should get together and figure out how to draw enough attention to put a stop to this, and make an example for other insurance companies.

  This is a prime example why I don't think capitalism alone has all of the answers. If A needs B and C to prosper, and C needs A & B, A will rape B dry until C is so bad off that it is also hurting A. How does this make sense?

Re:Evil (1)

Pyrion (525584) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192772)

Reality check: we're in a recession. Everyone's trying to save money. Even the heartless cold and evil big corporations. So what? This is not "healing someone because they are sick," this is throwing money at a problem until it fixes itself. How long has she been receiving treatment for "depression?" How long will she continue to be treated for "depression?" This is not something easily quantified because it's entirely reliant on the patient actually wanting to be treated, but if they do that, their claim is canceled and they have to go back to working for a living. Who wouldn't be "depressed" over facing that?

Re:Evil (1)

crazycheetah (1416001) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193072)

Remember that stimulus bill that AIG etc. fucked us over on?

There's a piece of that bill that is supposed to make denying coverage because of psychological illnesses illegal. Similar to the proposals in the new health care bills that do the same for medical illnesses.

But that's the US...

However, in this case, though still bullshit, it looks like they just refused to keep paying sick leave, because they thought it looked like she was able to go back to work, instead of going on vacations and to the bars. They should consult with *her* physician on the matter, if they really care. But then I ponder about the privacy laws' influence on doing that, as well...

The more I think about it, the more I hate insurance all together.

Not Surprising (4, Insightful)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192712)

She also doesn’t understand how Manulife accessed her photos because her Facebook profile is locked and only people she approves can look at what she posts.

Oh, please, you're talking to a generation that grew up watching Dateline and 20/20 where insurance companies hired private investigators to stalk people who would do the following:

  1. Bring a flask of water or oil into Walmart or some supermarket.
  2. Covertly empty it onto the floor.
  3. Come back minutes later to 'slip' on said spill.
  4. Sue the hell out of the store and claim crazy grief and pain charges in court.

So then you'd see the companies hiring PIs to track the people (who allegedly could barely move) tearing it up at Disney World. Yeah, scam artists and fraudsters.

You shouldn't be surprised to see insurance companies being very proactive in their searches to follow up on people. I cannot say whether or not she is legitimately getting the short end of the stick or if she's defrauding the company. Sounds like the former. If she had made claims that she never smiled and couldn't go out in public due to depression then she might have problems. Why doesn't she just get her doctor to send a note to her insurance company explaining that people suffering from this magnitude of depression (and those recovering from it) can force themselves to smile for a picture? I mean, it's likely that the insurance company got tired of paying sick leave for depression unless it could be shown to be a chemical imbalance they probably were just looking for any reason to have to stop forking over pay.

Personally, I was offered $250 by my company's health insurance plan if I signed something that said I had not used tobacco products in the past 6 months. I hadn't but a few years ago I had (what I was told) were Cuban cigars in Mexico. Those friends put pictures of me on Facebook smoking them. So what? Well, if they found contrary evidence to my claim, I faced having my insurance terminated. Not worth the $250. Be aware of what Facebook puts on display for the world--even if you think it's private it's usually not. I mean, it could be as inane as some coworker who doesn't like her sees her other friend at work tagged in a photo with 'depressed' coworker on leave and decided to copy what photos they could see and forward them on to the insurance company?

Depressed or Bi-Polar? (5, Insightful)

Xeleema (453073) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192714)

after her insurance provider found photos of her on Facebook smiling and looking cheerful at parties and out on the beach....

Well, she was on benefits because she was diagnosed as depressed, and it's already been said that any psychiatrist worth their salt will tell you to get yourself out there and at least *try* to have a good time.

But seriously, this is a bit out of hand, hasn't anyone at her insurance carrier ever had a picture taken? What does the photographer usually scream at you?

SMILE!!!

Re:Depressed or Bi-Polar? (0, Troll)

Pyrion (525584) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192758)

And it worked, she's having a good time, she's no longer depressed. Cancel the benefits for depression, she doesn't need them anymore, send her back to work.

Unless of course you argue that depression doesn't work that way. I'm of the mindset that claiming "depression" is basically a way of saying "I don't want to work, but I can't afford not to," and I blame everyone who has abused the definition of depression as a mental disorder to file false disability claims for coloring my view of the subject.

Re:Depressed or Bi-Polar? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192800)

That just makes you a cunt.

As someone who has been hospitalized multiple times for psych problems, and never taken a dollar of disability (aside from county hospital time) I declare: fuck you.

Re:Depressed or Bi-Polar? (-1, Offtopic)

Pyrion (525584) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192826)

Ooh, ad hominems from an anonymous fuckwad. I'll be sure to stay up nights fretting about this!

Re:Depressed or Bi-Polar? (1)

Xeleema (453073) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192896)

ad hominems from an anonymous fuckwad

Okay, I'm up for some argumentum ad hominem.

You have taken a poor stance on a topic you most likely fail to grasp. However, all I have to base that on is your current responses to this thread thus far. Therefore, because of your seemingly ingrained tendency to jump to conclusions, I perceive your supporting arguments (and subsequent arguments) are flawed.

To summarize this emboldened feeling I have for you, I'll simply state; Fuck you

Better now? I don't want you sliding into depression because some un-anonymous fuckwad wouldn't give you what you wanted.

Of course, I would prefer you just deal with the fact that life is complicated to the point were a few out-of-place photographs can't determine something so abstract as a frame of mind.

Re:Depressed or Bi-Polar? (1)

Pyrion (525584) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192952)

Of course they can't. That's not my point. You yourself argue that "frame of mind" is an abstract. My point is that insurance companies shouldn't be compelled to pay out large sums over abstracts like a person's "frame of mind," especially since it seems a rather prevailing notion is to treat depression as a "get out of work" card. It wouldn't be viewed and treated as such if so many people didn't do it, and again, I blame them for coloring my views on the subject.

You're quite right though. I do fail to grasp "depression" because I've never been depressed and I never intend to become depressed. Why? Because life is short, it's a bitch, and then you die, and I am not going to waste my life away feeling sorry for myself. I've got plenty of far more amusing things to waste my life away on. Like arguing on Slashdot.

Re:Depressed or Bi-Polar? (1)

Xeleema (453073) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193010)

life is short, it's a bitch, and then you die, and I am not going to waste my life away feeling sorry for myself...

Ah, now that I will agree with you on. The old standby of "Get Over It" works for me, however I wouldn't assume outright that it would work for others (hence why I don't dispense that advice to those few individuals I know of who are very, truly clinically depressed).

The main problem with serious cases of depression isn't a "woe is me" complex, it's all the little things that manifest themselves because of the depression.

Things like insomnia, eating disorders, migraines, etc. All of which flood over one's personal life and into their work life, affecting the latter to the point where they're in danger of losing their jobs.

It's what's known as a cycle, and the downward spiral is too much for people to take sometimes. Hell, no one ever committed suicide because they were perfectly content with their lives. It takes an extreme amount of circumstances wearing someone down till they can't take it any more.

Anyone remember that teenage girl that hung herself in her closet, just because of some cyber-bullying? Every work of (I use the phrase loosely) journalism that I've read about it fails to explain/uncover everything else that that lead up to that situation.

Taken out of context, it's easy to think to one's self "well, one less emo kid to worry about", however there's far more to it. For good or ill, the human spirit is a hard thing to crush. Whatever led up to that (aside from the MySpace drama), must have worn her down pretty far. That was just what broke the camel's back.

My point being, there are some people that just can't handle the things that life throws at them, and when they actually attempt to turn things around, *wham* the real world tears that apart, too.

I seriously hope she has a good lawyer.

Re:Depressed or Bi-Polar? (1)

Xeleema (453073) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192844)

And it worked...

No. Neither you, the insurance company, myself, or any of us is qualified to make that decision.

Every photograph is taken out of context. That's the point of them, to freeze a moment in time. Not the hour or so before that, or the few seconds after that.

Hell, who's to say someone didn't spike her drink/food with something they innocently thought would "loosen her up a bit so she could have a good time"?

The day an Insurance company starts making decisions once reserved for medical professionals is a day I dread.

Re:Depressed or Bi-Polar? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192958)

Unless of course you argue that depression doesn't work that way. I'm of the mindset that claiming "depression" is basically a way of saying "I don't want to work, but I can't afford not to," and I blame everyone who has abused the definition of depression as a mental disorder to file false disability claims for coloring my view of the subject.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Somebody please vote this down (Flamebait).

Depression doesn't work that way. (2, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193034)

Unless of course you argue that depression doesn't work that way.

It doesn't. Everyone has periods of highs and lows. A person with major depressive disorder has highs, as seen on Facebook in this case, but the highs are so short and the lows so long and deep that they interfere with the patient's ability to function for a significant period of time.

Re:Depressed or Bi-Polar? (1)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193056)

And in "the human brain is a simple machine that can be fixed in five minutes world" maybe you're right.

Alternatively, in the real grown up world, perhaps you don't know anything at all about how depression works.

Re:Depressed or Bi-Polar? (1)

kyriosdelis (1100427) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193060)

But seriously, this is a bit out of hand, hasn't anyone at her insurance carrier ever had a picture taken? What does the photographer usually scream at you? SMILE!!!

I usually scream "pretend to be happy", or "say 'testicles'". Both work like a charm!

She's lucky it just got canceled. (-1, Troll)

Pyrion (525584) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192736)

By all rights, she should be facing a charge of insurance fraud for receiving benefits based on a false claim.

Re:She's lucky it just got canceled. (1)

bev_tech_rob (313485) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192768)

Have you not read any of the previous posts or are you just trolling? Go back to your Mommy's basement and hush...

Re:She's lucky it just got canceled. (1)

Kneo24 (688412) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192796)

Where exactly is the false claim? Should people who suffer from depression be depressed every single moment of their lives and not try to make it better?

As someone that suffers from depression too.. (5, Insightful)

malkavian (9512) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192750)

I think this could rebound terribly (and rightfully) on the insurer.
The worst thing for a clinical depression is to stay closeted away. In the UK, there is no "social prescribing", where a GP may decide that the root of your troubles are a social disconnection. This disconnect raises stress, and is a sizable aspect in depression.
Rather than pump people full of antidepressants, they prescribe you a visit to a local social group that is ratified as being suitable for this (can be activity groups, plain social groups, heading to a gym, or whatever would best fit the person that's available).
This has had marked benefits to many that use the service.
Depression is always a fight, and when you fight it best, there's always a time that you smile. It may not last for long, but every point you can laugh and be brought out is an absolute gem. And there's no surprise that mates will take a pic of you when you're smiling and paste it on Facebook, rather than ones of you looking glum and disconnected.
One of those gems, for me, was years ago, just after my brother had had a massive car smash that left him on life support. One of my friends had first been blunt (there's nothing you can do, so get on with life while this goes on and things work themselves out), then actually managed to get me out and make me laugh. For just a minute; epic effort on his part, but it gave me a moment's respite, for which I'm eternally grateful.
Now, if anyone had dared to say to me in that minute or two of respite that I wasn't upset, torn up and terrified, I'd have torn them several new ones, and stomped on the pieces until the men in white coats dragged me off.
Smiling pictures of a depressive are not evidence they're not depressed. They're evidence that they have a good support network of people who are prepared to do the heavy emotional lifting to keep them going..
Cutting the insurance is going to make anyone depressive (or recovering depressive) fall far back down the treatment path..
Wouldn't be surprised to find this one in litigation sometime soon.

Re:As someone that suffers from depression too.. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30193032)

Yeah yeah, whatever you crazy EURO! Here in NORTH AMERICA we prefer to just cram as much prescription drugs into people as possible and call the job DONE. Know why? Because that's our job, and when we do our job, it gets done. More drugs the merrier. Literally.

Insurance companies aren't doctors (2, Insightful)

Pedrito (94783) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192752)

This is a HUGE part of the current problem in the States with health insurance. Health insurance companies are not doctors. You can't make a diagnosis by looking at pictures on someone's facebook account. They teach you that in medical school, I think. I'm all for the public option myself, and I hope it puts the health insurance companies out of business. Frankly, I think anyone who works for an organization as corrupt as an American health insurance company, has it coming, because nobody who works for one can possibly claim ignorance to the crap that goes on with them.

but she's in Canada! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192794)

I thought canadian health care was so great that we needed to xerox it and never need health insurance again. WTF, eh?

Speaking as a Finn (1)

Max Romantschuk (132276) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192754)

This sounds like some kind of farce... and yet I can't help wonder how long it will take until I read about similar cases in Finland.

We have a great health care system, in theory. In practice everyone who can afford it has private health insurance too, so that you have the option of using private services when the public ones don't deliver.

you know (1)

uxbn_kuribo (1146975) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192790)

One thing's for sure. This won't help her depression.

do not take this story at face value (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192852)

First of all, she lost disability payments not health care coverage (the story says nothing of healthcare benefits). Secondly, all information in the story including the claim that the disability was ended was provided by the Quebec woman. Thirdly, people do abuse disability leave.

The same way something like this happens (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192858)

http://mike-elmore-stole-my-wife.com/index2.html

Not health benefits, disability (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30192914)

This is not about health care benefits. Her disability payments were stopped. And if I were the insurer, I would question that if someone is functioning well enough to go on vacation, to go out to a bar with friends, etc... is ready to go back to work.

In my experience, (4, Informative)

JRHodel (242257) | more than 3 years ago | (#30192966)

people with depression, even deep depression, can smile, laugh, and be outgoing right up until the moment they commit suicide.

It's part of the syndrome that they want to act like a natural, happy person, even if they're on a brink - no matter what. Many won't admit they're ill until fatal results happen.

Insurance companies shouldn't have anything to do with diagnosis, they aren't qualified (not being doctors), and they have a conflict of interest, making money by denying illness. Frankly I think making money by denying health care to people is nearly as unethical as just shooting them up front.

How? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#30193002)

What a stupid question! How many people do you know, who will properly firewall friendship requests through means of investigation? Most of my female friends see Facebook or Twitter as a popularity contest. Sometimes I wonder where their extra 300 friends came from when mine stagnates at 200.

National Health Care? (1)

zerosomething (1353609) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193028)

Truly I'm confused. I thought Canadians had national health care? So is it the national system canceling her or some kind of supplemental plan?

A great fraud story! (-1, Troll)

tjstork (137384) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193040)

This sounds like a case where the lady is committing fraud. If she can function at a bar, she can function at a desk. All too often people rationalize their maladies, and find doctors willing to agree, such that they really can find a way to not work. Health insurance disability is a huge racket.

I know some photographers that used to earn a good living taking pictures of people with "bad backs" lifting cases of beer out of their cars or working on additions to their homes. The thing is, some states, notably Pennsylvannia, are so crooked that they pretty much accept any fraud that's out there. They are socialists and they just let people loot the system because they really don't care about the whole outcome. So you've got a guy collecting disabillity getting videotaped playing American style football, and the PA commisioners say, get this, that, just because he can play football doesn't mean that he can work.

Unfortunately, saying that we can really clamp down on fraud for disability is not going to work. Disability has become the social services backstop for combat vets and in America, there are a lot of them. The VA is just hopelessly overwhelmed - science has no answers really, so, gaming the disability system a bit to just try and put a roof over your head is ok in my book for vets. I know a guy that showed up at the VA looking for some bucks because his hearing got blown out during Vietnam war - 40 years ago. The thing is, he's pretty much had a rough life because of his war experiences and so yeah, I don't have a problem with my .08 cents a check for my share of his disability payment.

Does the door swing both ways? (1)

beej (82035) | more than 3 years ago | (#30193052)

Maybe you can get disability for depression if you only show pictures of yourself on facebook depicting deep frowns and somber scenes! That's a diagnosis if I ever saw one!

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...