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Wikileaks Publishes 500,000 9/11 Pager Messages

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the hindsight-and-voyeurism dept.

Cellphones 309

An anonymous reader writes "Wikileaks is preparing to release 500,000 intercepted pager messages from a 24-hour period encompassing the September 11 terrorist attacks. The messages show emergency services springing into action and computer systems sending automated messages as buildings collapse. Wikileaks implies this data came from an organised collection effort."

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News to me (1, Interesting)

EdZ (755139) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225794)

Pagers still exist? Granted they never caught on in the UK, but I've never, not even once, seen an actual functioning pager in use. I guess text messaging took over any utility pagers would have over here.

Re:News to me (2, Informative)

rainmaestro (996549) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225852)

You still see them in the medical community (ER docs, nurses, etc), but that's about the only place I ever seen them nowadays.

Re:News to me (4, Interesting)

Courageous (228506) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226646)

I still see them in use for certain IT folks in the defense industry. The key is that they will permit them into secure facilities, as the old one-way versions cannot transmit.

Re:News to me (3, Informative)

DJ Jones (997846) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225866)

Most hospital physicians still use them for a few reasons.
  • There are no dead zones
  • They are easier to page than a cell phone (any nurse can pick up the nearest land line, no need to text)
  • They don't interfere with medical equipment (which is becoming less of a concern lately)

Re:News to me (4, Informative)

oodaloop (1229816) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226002)

Plus they are the only comm devices allowed in classified facilities.

Re:News to me (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226430)

Not for long....

Re:News to me (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226546)

Unnngghh my dick is so fucking hard right now.

Re:News to me (3, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226832)

There are no dead zones

Not true. They're RF devices and suffer the same limitations as any other radio receiver. With most pagers, they are not bidirectional and so if you are in a dead zone the person sending the message does not get any notification that the delivery failed or was delayed.

Re:News to me (4, Insightful)

v1 (525388) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225890)

Pagers can be more reliable than TM. And a lot of people turn off their cell phone when they are sleeping. Ringing cell phones often aren't loud enough to wake you up anyway. Not everyone has a cell phone. (I don't) A lot of automated systems are still only able to do a broadcast-style alert to multiple pagers, not text messaging. (volunteer fire departments are good examples) Pagers can run a month or more on a single AA battery which increases their reliability. Lots of reasons to stick with pagers.

Re:News to me (1)

Carewolf (581105) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226102)

Not everyone has a cell phone. (I don't)

Obviously this depends on culture. I've never met anyone who had a pager, I've never seen a pager in real life or heard of anyone using one outside the US. Text messaging on the other hand have been in common use since early 2001, and everyone has a mobile phone, if not for any other reason, then because it is many times cheaper than a fixed phone if you don't use a phone often.

Re:News to me (3, Insightful)

jandrese (485) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226200)

You've never known anybody who is on call? SMS is unreliable, and if you're paying someone to be on-call, you want their service to be reliable. You don't want the message "Critical production server down, administrator needed" to be delayed 15 minutes because of some SMS issue. It doesn't matter nearly as much if "LOL, at movies" gets delayed, but the on-call message can literally be worth thousands of dollars per minute it is delayed. Of course on-call folks have cell phones too, but the pager tends to be the first method of communication employed.

Re:News to me (0, Troll)

Inda (580031) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226480)

SMS is unreliable? Where?

In the 15 years I've been using it, only New Years Eve at midnight caused any problems. This was a long time ago too. I don't remember it happening for the last few years.

15 minutes wait? Where?

I do transactions online, and SMS messages come in as quick as email. Argos, Tesco Top-ups - instant.

Voice mail texts me after a missed call. Instant.

Me thinks you live in a 3rd world country, or one that is very backward.

Re:News to me (2, Informative)

Twisted Willie (1035374) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226592)

SMS is unreliable? Where?

Unreliable as in you get no guarantees if and when a message will actually be delivered. Try to find a carrier anywhere that offers you a contract with an SLA on SMS delivery. Granted, you won't often run into problems with SMS, but if you are bound by an SLA with a customer, you'd better have your underpinning contracts (yay for ITIL terminology) at the same level as that SLA.

Re:News to me (4, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226860)

SMS is more reliable in this sense than a pager message. If a receiving mobile is out of radio range then it will be buffered for retransmit. Pagers are receive-only devices and don't send acknowledgements, so if they are out of range when the message is sent the message is permanently lost. My father used to have a pager but his company switched to sending SMS because at least then he'd get messages late, while previously he would sometimes never get them.

Re:News to me (1)

Acidangl (86850) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226680)

I'm in rural Wyoming. SMS is unreliable.

Delays, messages just don't show up many times. Its not strange for a text message to show up several hours later.

Re:News to me (1)

beuges (613130) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226880)

The problems you experienced at new years are because of network congestion, and that can happen at other times as well. I sent my girlfriend an SMS last Tuesday at lunch time and it only arrived on Friday or Saturday night. Cellular networks occasionally have problems which could lead to SMSs being delayed. While you might be used to SMSs arriving instantly, they very often do not.

Re:News to me (3, Informative)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226496)

    At one place I worked years ago, we used pagers. As cell phones became more popular, we stared switching over to them. Every once in a while, we'd test to see which ones worked better. Text messages emailed to the phones were usually faster than the alphanumeric pagers. In time, we ditched the pagers entirely, since they were slower to receive, and we felt silly carrying around too many devices.

    For completeness of coverage, the messages were sent to 5 different people via two methods each. Usually it was email and phone. If there was an emergency, and no admins checked in, the phone calls started going out. Most events were handled in 5 minutes, even if the primary person was unavailable. That wasn't bad considering not everything happened during normal working hours. Actually, most emergencies didn't happen during normal working hours. That would have made them too easy. :)

Re:News to me (2, Insightful)

SydShamino (547793) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226824)

I have a pager as a workplace emergency responder. I too have the messages sent as text to my (private) cell phone, and I receive them as a work email.

In general my phone and the email arrive simultaneously, followed about a minute later by the pager.

That said, at least once the phone text message stopped working when my cell phone provider changed something. At our last ERT group meeting last week, when we did a test page, at least two members did not get the texts (including one who had the week prior during an actual emergency). He was on AT someone just next to him also on AT&T got the page.

Ultimately, we have a big team and could probably afford a few members missing the texts if we switched away from pagers entirely. However, after-hours emergencies are triggered by the security company rather than the building receptionists, and the third-party security company's system can only send numeric mass pages, not emails, so we can't switch.

Re:News to me (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226694)

Frankly, paging is now less reliable than SMS from my experience. If your pager doesn't receive a page, it's gone; whereas, if an SMS is delayed, at least it will be resent once your phone is within range of the network. My business unit still uses pagers for on-call, although we have advocating cell phones for some time because they don't even cost any more.

Re:News to me (1)

samkass (174571) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226230)

The last pager/beeper I saw used by a software geek was in the mid 90's. Believe it or not, the tech universe didn't start 10 years ago :).

Re:News to me (1)

troll8901 (1397145) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226518)

I've never seen a pager in real life or heard of anyone using one outside the US.

Hailing from somewhere in Asia. My first job as an IT technician involved a pager. It was a pain to carry, but it's better than staff contacting me on my mobile.

I realized that when people knew my mobile number, they tend to call me for small matters (e.g. "can you show me how to use VLOOKUP again? I've got these two lists of customer names to compare."). On the other hand, if they knew only my pager number, they tend not to page me unless it's important (e.g. "the POS system stopped working; all the 8 outlets are affected, and the lunch crowd is just starting to come in").

Thus, having a pager gives staff and management the feeling that I'm contactable, while actually shielding me from people bothering me for small reasons.

Re:News to me (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226718)

That's why when I finally convince my superiors to switch from pagers to cell phones, I intend to simply use the messaging system to send text messages to the phones. We are not a 24-hour shop, so answering live calls from customers is not something we can support at this time.

Re:News to me (1)

CornMaster (1105789) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226684)

My experience with Cell Phones/Pagers breaks down like this:
1) Had a cell phone in 2000-2001 when living in Florida. Mainly because we lived out in the country and had crappy cars that would break a lot. I actually do not like Cell Phones.
2) Moved back to Canada and got a pager in 2002-2003. Mainly because I didn't want people calling me at all hours. They would page me, and I'd respond when I felt like it/if it was important. This also allowed me to be available for work, but not too available for work.
3) I got a Blackberry this year from work. Mainly to keep up on emails and server notifications that go out via email. The cell phone part of it rarely gets used as I still don't like cell phones.

Not that anyone really cares about my usage, just thought I'd counter the 'no one uses pagers outside the US comment'. And I was also a end consumer who bought a pager, as opposed to work giving me a pager to be on call and such. Which is also something you don't see all that often. The pager allowed people to contact me in emergencies, but was much cheaper then a cell phone, and far less annoying.

Re:News to me (2, Interesting)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226736)

I've never met anyone who had a pager, I've never seen a pager in real life or heard of anyone using one outside the US.

Your experience must be limited to geographical areas with pervasive cell network coverage.

I live in an area of NH with moderate coverage, but prefer to head up to the mountains for R&R. But I'm on-call, so I carry a pager, it works nearly everywhere (cell phone start working again well above tree-line).

I use procmail to duplicate messages to pager + SMS - between the two coverage is nearly 100%.

Pager is $15mo for alpha paging (longer messages than SMS) and my pager (Motorola design made in China) runs about two months on a AA. It will give me a warning about the battery a few days before it gets really low, and then beep at me annoyingly for a couple days before the battery is dead.

Re:News to me (2)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226432)

Ringing cell phones often aren't loud enough to wake you up anyway.

Some are. Mine is. I used to have an old LG phone that sounded exactly like an old fashioned landline phone, the kind with a real bell in it. It was loud enough to wake you up, too.

I use my phone for an alarm clock.

Re:News to me (2, Interesting)

Tteddo (543485) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225896)

I have one!! I don't have a phone either. And I am in IT. And yes, the young-ins make fun of me.

Re:News to me (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30225944)

There are also places where two-way devices (i.e. mobile phones) aren't allowed for security reasons. We maintain a bunch of pagers for just that reason.

Re:News to me (3, Insightful)

khallow (566160) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225954)

You do realize that 9/11 occurred over eight years ago. Even if pagers didn't exist now, they did exist then.

Re:News to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30225978)

In 1998, when I started college, I got a pager, since it was a $5/mo alternative to a cell phone. I said that I did not want to get a cell phone until it could be my only phone.

I held through on that. In 2005, I used the relatively new number portability law to get my home phone number transferred to a cell phone, and ditched my pager service.

Re:News to me (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226044)

You must be young. Pagers were very widely used in the UK when mobile phones where the size of car batteries, and emergency staff still use them because they are far more reliable than mobile networks. It's only office lackies that moved to mobile comms, because just about everyone working in an office has one, and companies don't have to pay for pager services, and it's pretty rare for a business communication to truly be an emergency.

Re:News to me (5, Insightful)

lawpoop (604919) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226550)

Pagers still exist?

These are texts and pages from 9/11/2001, which is some 8 years ago.

Re:News to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226654)

That's a shame though, because pagers don't have transmitter hardware. Unlike a cellphone, a pager can not be located by the network. A cellphone can be located to within a few hundred yards at worst, but typically much more closely. (Even in rural areas with few towers. Look up "timing advance" in the GSM specification.)

So much raw data (2, Insightful)

Shrike82 (1471633) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225808)

Every conspircay theorist in the world just simultaneously orgasmed. All those messages to pick through; I'm sure they'll be able to prove it was the US Government/Al-Qaeda/Joseph Fritzel/The Cookie Monster/Scientologists all along.

Re:So much raw data (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225990)

No, you know very well that the government and the wikileaks illuminati cleaned it beforehand...

Re:So much raw data (2, Funny)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226112)

You scared me for a second with your username. I thought I had posted that without even realizing it.

Re:So much raw data (2, Insightful)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226146)

fnord.

Re:So much raw data (1)

SloppySevenths (1592383) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226298)

You can tell it's been censored. There clearly aren't enough messages in the vein: "Hey baby, let's meet in the copy room."

Re:So much raw data (5, Informative)

megamerican (1073936) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226026)

Every conspircay theorist in the world just simultaneously orgasmed. All those messages to pick through; I'm sure they'll be able to prove it was the US Government/Al-Qaeda/Joseph Fritzel/The Cookie Monster/Scientologists all along.

The NORAD tapes, which were released long ago proved that there was a conspiracy by The Pentagon to lie to the 9/11 Commission and the American people. The 9/11 Commission had a closed meeting deciding whether or not to charge Air Force officials with perjury but chose not to because "it wouldn't be good for the country."

John Farmer, senior counsel on the 9/11 Commission said, "at some level of the government, at some point in time...there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened [during 9/11]"

6 of the 10 Commissioners have come out saying that they were lied to and that the report is not accurate.
http://patriotsquestion911.com/ [patriotsquestion911.com]

“More than one-quarter of all footnotes in the 9/11 Report refer to CIA interrogations of al Qaeda operatives subjected to the now-controversial interrogation techniques,” writes former NBC producer Robert Windrem in The Daily Beast. [thedailybeast.com] “In fact, information derived from the interrogations was central to the 9/11 Report’s most critical chapters, those on the planning and execution of the attacks.”

We've been lied to about 9/11 from day one. It needs to be investigated further. If 6 out of the 10 Commissioners are distancing themselves from the report by saying they were lied to something isn't right. Burying your head deeper into the sand won't help.

Re:So much raw data (5, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226126)

If there was a conspiracy to find about 9/11, what do you think it would turn out to be?

A. A concerted effort by the Government and Department of Defence, and related military bodies conspiring together to launch an attack on the US people in order to further the aims of the Government and selected private corporations and individuals.

Or...

B. A concerted effort by members of the Government and Department of Defence, and related military bodies to cover up their own inadequecies in being able to deal with an attack by a small number of persons against several targets using simplistic weapons, causing a massive over reaction over the next few years, and resulting in the inability of the largest military might in the world to subdue a country that has barely hit the 19th Century.

Yes, there probably was a lie surrounding 9/11, but its almost certainly not the juicy one people are fantasising about...

Re:So much raw data (4, Interesting)

PinkyDead (862370) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226570)

Can't I have both?

The middle (3, Interesting)

copponex (13876) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226666)

Read the Project for a New American Century's statement of principles here [newamericancentury.org] . Now read the PNAC letter to Clinton on Iraq here [newamericancentury.org] . Note that Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Jeb are all big supporters. Now read about their plans here [newamericancentury.org] .

The choice quote is: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."

My theory is that they had intelligence stating that the attack was going to happen. Just as many suspect happened at Pearl Harbor, they deliberately stood down defenses in order to get the catalyzing event that they need in order to enact foreign military operations. They may have done this truly believing it was in the best interests of the country, but the truth needs to come out, and those responsible punished.

I don't think they knew that the towers would collapse. It explains the look on George when he was first told we were under attack, and the look on his face during his address.

Reichstag would vote A (5, Insightful)

1800maxim (702377) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226742)

Was Reichstag fire just as unbelievable as 9/11? It was done to further gov't agenda.

From Wikipedia: The Reichstag fire... is seen as pivotal in the establishment of Nazi Germany.

Don't think gov'ts now aren't capable of the same thing, or that they aren't doing it.

But then it's much more comfortable to bury one's head in the sand.

Re:So much raw data (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226800)

Follow the money....

If you wanted the USA to have the tallest building in the world again, where would you put it? Would you build it in some developing city that couldn't support the occupancy of the building to make money? Montgomery Alabama? Little Rock Arkansas? No....

You would build it in the most populace cities. The largest cities that can support that kind of building and still make money off of it are all out of land. So, what is someone to do... Knock down some of the existing buildings and build a bigger one. Do you know what the cost would be to bring down an existing building in New York? One can only imagine. Do you know what it would take to get it approved through the city council?

Come up with some terror threat, and bring down the buildings. No fussing with all the red tape. Jesse Ventura is very vocal in saying that with all his demolition experience in the Navy Seals, to him the buildings were detonated.

Do you know how extremely hard it is to bring down a building completely vertical? Just watching some of the shows on the Discovery channel will tell you that. If that were the case, demolition crews from now on would be using airplanes instead of the weeks if not months of preparing a building to come down.

So, now there is space in the most populated city in the US to build the worlds tallest building, the American public even get to foot the bill for building it and the American Government gets the war in Iraq that they have been hoping for even if it is the longest stretch ever to connect the two.

Also to me there has to be something magic about an airplane disappearing into a 6 foot wide hole in the pentagon.

If this was nothing but terrorism, the three buildings would have been built back by now 8 years later. Atleast one of them.

Or option C. . . (0, Flamebait)

Fantastic Lad (198284) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226876)

C. Elements of both.

As I understand things, it is unrealistic to think that the Government and related military bodies were conspiring together, as it implies a singularity of intent within a ridiculously massive structure. It's like saying that the Government is one thing when really it's a huge collection of many forces working at counter-purposes, operating from different levels of knowledge and awareness, having different sources of funding and which answer to numerous different authorities which are rarely in agreement, -and for which even the most basic levels of public oversight are cosmetic and generally useless.

Also, you didn't mention Big Business and, Foreign *cough Israel* Governments in your two options, which combined with the above, all comes together to create what is known as the Military Industrial Complex. --A concept which is largely misunderstood. The MIC is a giant, hopelessly complex, corrupt, world-spanning system in which it is entirely possible for small groups of people to work in secret to enact whatever agendas they feel obliged to visit upon the world. It happens all the time, except instead of pushing unsafe hormones past public oversight bodies and into cow's milk, or selling toxic peanuts or ripping off the public through savings and loans scandals, or selling Palestinian pancreases on the black market, or selling drugs to fund contra rebels, or whatever, this piece of bullshit happened to use airplanes and be more in your face and ambitious than the usual con job. But clearly it wasn't overly-ambitious, because all the goals have been met and nobody got caught.

Bullshit happens all the time, crafty nasty people plan in secret all the time and they get away with murder, we rarely ever find out exactly what the heck happened, and with the exception of the token sacrificial goat now and again, the people responsible never actually get punished.

And nearly everybody continues to believe what the soothing talking heads on TV have to say about it all while disregarding their own senses and while ridiculing those who have the balls to try to think for themselves.

You know? Business as usual.

-FL

Re:So much raw data (0, Flamebait)

secretcurse (1266724) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226894)

Dude, you're trying to inject logic into a discussion with a truther. You're going to get better results trying to move a building with your forehead...

Re:So much raw data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226766)

No matter how many times you cut and paste that into message boards, no one cares. No one will ever care. And deep in your narcissistic heart, you know that bothers you way more than any nonsensical "conspiracy."

Conspiracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30225812)

First the global warming emails, and now this? What next 7 foot lizards are real now?

Lizards? (4, Informative)

jDeepbeep (913892) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225880)

What next 7 foot lizards are real now?

Yes. [wikipedia.org]

Re:Lizards? (5, Funny)

duguk (589689) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226272)

What next 7 foot lizards are real now?

Yes. [wikipedia.org]

Think you're mistaken; they've only got four feet.

Re:Lizards? (3, Funny)

qazsedcft (911254) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226318)

Did you even click that link? The first paragraph of the text states that they grow to an average length of 2 to 3 metres (6.6 to 9.8 ft). Check the pictures if you don't believe it.

Re:Lizards? (2, Informative)

amstrad (60839) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226376)

Woosh! Something just flew over your head.

Re:Lizards? (1)

longhairedgnome (610579) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226390)

The sound of four lizard feet

Re:Lizards? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226406)

the may grow to that length, but they still only have four feet.

Re:Lizards? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226492)

Did you even read his post? You may want to read it again... If you are going to correct someone at least don't be stupid about it =/.

Re:Lizards? (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226582)

I don't think he said... what... you... Sweet baby jeebus, man. I can't even bring myself to mock you. It'd be like throwing a basketball to a paraplegic.

Re:Lizards? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226882)

I fail to see the correlation between mocking this man and wheelchair basketball [wikipedia.org]

Re:Lizards? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226572)

What next 7 foot lizards are real now?

Yes. [wikipedia.org]

Think you're mistaken; they've only got four feet.

These lizards are also known as the triple-dicked lizards for good reason. So... the total count is 7.

Re:Lizards? (1)

duguk (589689) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226846)

What next 7 foot lizards are real now?

Yes. [wikipedia.org]

Think you're mistaken; they've only got four feet.

These lizards are also known as the triple-dicked lizards for good reason. So... the total count is 7.

If your penis looks like a foot, you've got problems. If it is a foot then, uh, my email address is on my profile =)

News For Nerds Anyone??!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30225876)

What is the point of this story on slashdot? It's not tech related, has really very little news value, and idiotly suggests some kind of conspiracy.

Can there be moderation for editors please? I love how comments can be modded to oblivion, but useless editors and stories can't.

Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226048)

What is the point of this story on slashdot? It's not tech related

Pagers.

Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! (1)

RiffRafff (234408) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226226)

What is the point of this story on slashdot? It's not tech related

Pagers.

I has one. Gen-u-wine IBM issue.

Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! (3, Insightful)

ledow (319597) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226118)

Tech related: intercepted private pager messages from a variety of sources. Someone managed to collate these en-masse and distribute them.
Politically related (Slashdot has a politics section): suggestion of interception and storage of pager messages on a grand scale beyond that needed for operational reasons (this is 24-hours worth, don't forget, from several sources).
Privacy related: A release of otherwise private information, including private communications between ordinary people, presumably gathered direct from telco's, to a website known for doing that with politically-sensitive material. If nothing else, this shows you where your "private communications" end up when you're texting something erotic to your girlfriend... not "analysed", not "anonymised", just saved onto a disk somewhere at the telco for a random person to collect and leak to the Internet.

I think it's relevant and I have zero interest in 9/11, conspiracy theories, or even most of the things the US does.

Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226232)

ehw erotic texting

Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! (3, Insightful)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226194)

Can there be moderation for editors please? I love how comments can be modded to oblivion, but useless editors and stories can't.

If you log in then you can hide stories from particular editors (like that newbie CmdrTaco). Also, you have the chance to mod a story down using the Firehose [slashdot.org] before it gets approved.

Finally, there is also the option of just not clicking on the link if you are not interested in the story. Woah, I've gone too far there!

It is revealed (-1, Troll)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225884)

Now watch Obama try to censor the TRUTH of Italian conspiracy against AMERICA that is PROVEN BEYOND DOUBT by these NEW REVELATIONS!!!!!

that's nice (5, Insightful)

Darth_brooks (180756) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225900)

I'm sure this will lead to rational debate, as well as this information being added to our view of those tragic events as a whole and will finally lay to bed some of the misconceptions that have surrounded the events of 9/11, rather than becoming the source for thousands of snippets of information that will get used in barely contextualized, ill-thought out, and poorly worded conspiracy theories.

Also, when you bring me my pony, make sure it's pink.

Re:that's nice (4, Interesting)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225976)

I imagine a whole lot of people are going to be pissed when they learn that the data was intercepted back in 2001.

Re:that's nice (1)

cowscows (103644) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226688)

The conspiracy theories are already full of thousands of snippets of stuff, this new data isn't going to change anyone's mind. People who want to believe in a conspiracy will find "proof" in whatever information they get, so it doesn't really matter what's available.

Basically, there's already so many barely contextualized, ill-thought out, and poorly worded conspiracy theories out there that it doesn't really matter if this new data spawns a few more. I think most people have already chosen a side on the whole government conspiracy angle, and a bunch of snippets of pager text isn't going to sway anyone either way. The conspiracy nuts will have lots of fun endlessly debating all this new stuff for a few months, and everyone else will shrug their shoulders and go on with their lives.

Good Move (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30225984)

This seems to be a really good move on the part of Wikileaks. Its one of those things, where in the digital age, that information lasts for a long time, but I think the significance here is that this data was collected within a day of the attacks. What this does is give us a clearer picture of lots of things, including emergency response methods and efficiency, the way people react to catastrophic events, and information that may have previously been unknown, and things like that. There has been a lot of controversy surrounding Sep 11. and simple data being released to the public is always a good thing. Yes, there will be both ends of the extremist section, both conspiracy theorists and their counterparts, who may try to find specific data to backup their preconceived theories, but its still a good thing. Just browsing over to the TFA and their shortened excerpt, I found one very interesting message.."WTC HAS BEEN HIT BY AN AIRPLANE AND A BOMB." This does nothing as far as credibility and in situations like that people are known to panic and see and hear things that aren't there, but regardless, it will be interesting to see where this leads. Data by itself sometimes can be useless, but in context can have implications you don't expect.

Good Move (2, Interesting)

carp3_noct3m (1185697) | more than 4 years ago | (#30225996)

This seems to be a really good move on the part of Wikileaks. Its one of those things, where in the digital age, that information lasts for a long time, but I think the significance here is that this data was collected within a day of the attacks. What this does is give us a clearer picture of lots of things, including emergency response methods and efficiency, the way people react to catastrophic events, and information that may have previously been unknown, and things like that. There has been a lot of controversy surrounding Sep 11. and simple data being released to the public is always a good thing. Yes, there will be both ends of the extremist section, both conspiracy theorists and their counterparts, who may try to find specific data to backup their preconceived theories, but its still a good thing. Just browsing over to the TFA and their shortened excerpt, I found one very interesting message.."WTC HAS BEEN HIT BY AN AIRPLANE AND A BOMB." This does nothing as far as credibility and in situations like that people are known to panic and see and hear things that aren't there, but regardless, it will be interesting to see where this leads. Data by itself sometimes can be useless, but in context can have implications you don't expect. My personal opinions are far to complex to list here, but people should learn how to use logic and think for themselves.

Re:Good Move (2, Interesting)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226186)

I'd question the ethics of it. The very existence of this database is of huge political and social importance, thus falling under Wikileaks' remit, but by putting it into the public domain they're infringing the privacy of the citizens involved even further. You can bet all the TLAs, not to mention police forces, lawyers, insurance companies, and so on are having fun with it now it's in public view.

Re:Good Move (1)

sycodon (149926) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226326)

I'm sure family members of victims will relish the last communications of their loved ones being slashed all over wikileaks.

Mmmm (2, Insightful)

carp3_noct3m (1185697) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226604)

Wikileaks is simply an outlet for sensitive information. So what you're implying is that their privacy wasn't infringed by whichever entity collected the information, but by Wikileaks? That doesn't make any sense. I do see your point, but I think the potential benefits by far outweigh the cons of such a release. Now that the data is out there, nothing can be done to get it back. On top of this, Wikileaks has some serious credibility when it comes to their methods and what and when they decide to release, I'm sure their lawyers have thought out the consequences and variations thoroughly. Their statement as to the source is “While we are obligated ... to protect our sources, it is clear that the information comes from an organization which has been intercepting and archiving national US telecommunications since prior to 9/11.” If anything, THIS is what people SHOULD be mad about, that a (potentially governmental) organization has been collecting this data without their consent in the first place.

Who needs to make backups anymore? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226000)

Who needs to make backups anymore? The NSA has all your data and communications stored for you. Maybe they should sell backup services to fix the budget deficit.

Self aware computer systems? (5, Funny)

feedayeen (1322473) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226054)

"computer systems sending automated messages as buildings collapse" 8:46 a.m. - "Ow, something hit me!" 8:47 a.m. - "Anyone else smell smoke?" 8:47 a.m. - "Admin has logged off" 10:28 a.m. - "System failure"

Re:Self aware computer systems? (1)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226548)

Seriously. I wonder what they mean by that? What machines really send automated messages if they feel the building in which they are located collapse?

Some really touching messages, like (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226062)

2001-09-11 09:05:13 Metrocall [0902425] C ALPHA HQFPSCORP2:Backup Exec Job Failed

That one brings a tear to my eye.

It's not just 9/11 related pager messages (4, Funny)

rbb (18825) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226066)

In this file [wikileaks.org] I noticed a message that, in hindsight, is especially morbid:

Good morning. I haven't heard from you in a while. I'll try one more time and I suppose I will take the hint if you don't page me back. Have a good day. Todd

Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages (1)

csartanis (863147) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226208)

Realistically, there isn't much chance that the recipient was one of the victims of the attack.

Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages (1)

rbb (18825) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226244)

True, but that doesn't make the pager message less chilling

Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages (3, Insightful)

csartanis (863147) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226422)

This one bothers me a bit!


2001-09-11 10:20:40 Skytel [002840776] C ALPHA Hi, I need you to call me to tell me you are ok. Everyone is calling me and is very worried about you! If you can't get thru, can you send me an email or a fax or something. Just worried about you and wish you

Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages (3, Interesting)

csartanis (863147) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226574)


2001-09-11 10:20:42 Skytel [002840776] C ALPHA were home! I love you! T

Found the rest.

Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages (1)

rbb (18825) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226588)

How about this one:

Did your cat calm down? Thanks...... You are the cheapest therapist I have ever seen. I think that is a typical Eric comment, I am glad you can see past the shroud. Have a great day!

Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226716)

Please stop. Conspiracy theories don't bother me much - I can discount them as the imaginings of kooks. But if you need to gawk at the emotion, please do it privately. I would rather not relive that sorrow this morning. Please show a little discretion.

Pagers were working? (4, Informative)

wandazulu (265281) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226092)

I thought pagers used the cell networks a la text messages; indeed, I thought a pager was essentially a dedicated text message device.

I was in NYC on Sept 11 and the only thing that *was* working that day was the Internet...phones, both land line and cell were unavailable. We were trying to contact my brother-in-law who lived in Manhattan (we were in Brooklyn) and every phone we tried, including the pay phone down the street (still had 'em back then...) gave us the "fast busy signal", indicating "We didn't even try to make your call..."

So we spent the rest of the day IM'ing people as that was the only way to verify who was where. Bad times...bad times.

Re:Pagers were working? (1)

barzok (26681) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226300)

There were pagers before cell networks were widespread. Later pagers may have worked with cell networks, but there were (are?) pager networks which were much stronger & reliable than anything the cell networks provide.

I knew a number of people who carried a pager for on-call duties (and this is just 5 years ago) because while cell phones didn't work inside their houses, pagers did.

Re:Pagers were working? (1)

Darth_brooks (180756) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226314)

I thought pagers used the cell networks a la text messages; indeed, I thought a pager was essentially a dedicated text message device.

Let me save someone else the trouble:

blah blah blah kids today blah blah blah get off my lawn blah blah blah I remember when this was all fields.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pager [wikipedia.org]

Re:Pagers were working? (1)

Coren22 (1625475) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226398)

no, pagers are MUCH older then cell phones.

Re:Pagers were working? (1)

kriston (7886) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226890)

In those days most pager networks were separate and distinct from the mobile phone networks (and were on different frequencies, too). My two-way Motorola Skytel pager worked everywhere. Even today I cannot find a comparable mobile phone service with the coverage and reliability of the pagers that I cannot carry anymore.

I Can't Wait... (4, Funny)

Black-Man (198831) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226142)

For that text pager message: "Finished arming the detonating device, Herr Cheney".

Re:I Can't Wait... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226424)

Or the message "Bob, I'm letting some of the passengers fly the plane for a bit."

Re:I Can't Wait... (1)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226750)

"You deaded me, you swine, you! - Bluebottle"

Twitter next (2, Insightful)

JerryQ (923802) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226170)

After the next major event it will be the twitter stream which will be subject to such analysis

Re:Twitter next (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226328)

Yeah, the analysis will be "Something happened... then Twitter failed."

Re:Twitter next (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226380)

Are you crazy? it takes down vell networks and what not and you think the failwhale won't appear?

Re:Twitter next (1)

barbazoo (604828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226858)

[2012-01-01 06:12:32] OMG The Jebus statue has fallen #riodude
[2012-01-01 06:12:33] Too many tweets! We'll try to lighten the load and have things back to normal soon.

Wow (1)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226412)

im not dealing with this shit today.i will call johnston in earlyford shut down there plants and im not answering why we are still working.fuck this. FROM: RYDER LITTLEJOHN (x18914) (3

I bet someone felt like a real asshole after sending that. So sorry that one of the greatest tragedies in the countries history screwed up your day.

Surely this is proof if ever it were needed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226418)

that a number of Muslim fundamentalist fanatics conspired to hijack four aircraft and flew one of them into the Pentagon, and two others into the twin trade towers in New York.

Now that's what I call a real conspiracy theory.

What about Iridium? (1)

ickleberry (864871) | more than 4 years ago | (#30226508)

It would be interesting to see Satellite phone traffic from that day. Iridium also runs a pager service that still works :)

Global warming a conspiracy, maybe 911 is too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30226656)

Until we got the email evidence proving global warming was a hoax, I was ready to almost start believing it. Given that it IS apparently possible for the UN and thousands of scientists across the world to fake something as wide ranging as global warming, I am going to have to re-examine my skepticism of the 911 "truther" conspiracy theory as well. Like the email that brought down global warming, this pager evidence is pretty damned convincing.

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