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Apple Newton vs. Apple iPhone

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the you-have-been-on-my-lawn-for-10-years dept.

Handhelds 203

An anonymous reader writes "CNET UK has written a head-to-head piece entitled Apple Newton vs Apple iPhone. Despite the Newton being released some 10 years ago, and despite the iPhone being a phone, not a tablet, the site's editors believe the Newton is the more innovative of the two Apple products. The two devices were tied over four rounds, but in the 'Special Powers' element, where the iPhone was praised for its iPod capability, the Newton countered with its ability to play MP3s, connect to iTunes and 'its ability to work as a phone' because 'Blam! Not even the iPhone can do that.'"

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203 comments

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2nd!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239430)

2nd!!!

Successor to the iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239582)

I hear it is going to be the Apple Lagrange.

Jewton vs. KikePhone (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239438)

There is no contest. The KikePhone wins because it's color screen is better for pornography.

ok (1, Interesting)

nomadic (141991) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239440)

I have an iphone and love it. Amazing phone. But like just about everything else Apple has done, it's not really "innovative." They package well, but they never really come out with anything new. The closest thing they probably came to innovating on WAS the Newton.

Re:ok (5, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239476)

The Newton wasn't close to innovating, it was innovating. Newton Soup, the shape recognition, the drag-to-edge copy and paste implementation, the entire hybrid class-for-model, prototype-for-UI language concept, agents, and a number of other things in the Newton were innovative and are still better than most contemporary systems. The iPhone's only selling point is that it has a UI that sucks a lot less than most of its competitors.

Re:ok (2)

drizek (1481461) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239646)

The iPhone UI sucks a lot harder than WebOSs, and it is no better than Android.

The ONLY selling point of the iPhone is the ecosystem. Brand loyalty, huge number of apps and huge installed base. The phone itself is bland compared to all the other offerings(most new phones are essentially an iPhone plus a couple other features, like a high res display or a physical keyboard), and the software is about as advanced as Palm OS 4.0. I don't know how Apple can ship a product in 2009 that doesn't support multitasking.

Re:ok (4, Informative)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239702)

It does support multitasking, it just doesn't support multitasking with third party apps through the official app store. The apple apps can multitask, as can third party apps on jailbroken phones.

Re:ok (0, Troll)

E IS mC(Square) (721736) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239852)

No. It does not.

Re:ok (1)

Guy Harris (3803) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239932)

No. It does not.

"Does not" support multitasking for third-party apps through the official app store? Correct.

"Does not" support multitasking for bundled apps? Incorrect, although even those apps are subject to being suddenly terminated if a foreground app needs more memory.

"Does not" support multitasking for third-party apps on jailbroken phones? Incorrect, modulo the previous comment about sudden termination.

Re:ok (2, Insightful)

Aranykai (1053846) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240332)

If it indiscriminately terminates processes because the running app needs more memory, its not really practical to say it supports multitasking. You are just trying to redefine the accepted meaning of a multitasking smart phone to fit your fancy.

I might be biased though, I'm writing this from my HTC Hero with Android 1.6

Re:ok (4, Interesting)

RivieraKid (994682) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240640)

Not true. Every modern multitasking operating system will, in a low-memory situation, terminate background processes in favour of foreground processes. Other multitasking operating systems will be reduced to the performance of a snail racing through molasses in an attempt to keep everything running.

Neither approach is great from an end-user perspective, but at least when you run out of memory and the kernel kills processes to free up resources, the entire system is usable. The alternative is to lose everything because the system is so unresponsive you are forced to reboot to regain control.

When you're talking about a device with extremely limited resources, with no chance of increasing those resources, somethings gonna give, and in this case, it means that in order for the phone to remain operational the kernel will kill background tasks. It's not a limitation or fault, its a design trade-off based on the limited resources available. In my opinion its the right choice.

If your point is that the iPhone has inadequate resources to be used as a handheld computer, well then, I'd agree but that's another trade-off that Apple made in order to create the device they wanted, and its nothing to do with the iPhone's ability to multitask.

I'd be willing to bet that your Hero has greater storage resources available, either as RAM or FLASH and is therefore using some of that as a page file/device.

Yes, I have an iPhone, and yes, I'm just waiting two months for the contract to expire and I'll be replacing it with a Nokia N900.

Re:ok (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30240712)

The N900 looks amazing. I have a N95, and I'm quite pleased with it, but it's nearly 3 years behind now. I'll definitely be picking up a N900 as well once my contract is out. Full Linux, and Nokia even encourages you to get down into the system and do your own thing. I'm sure it won't catch on like the iPhone with all its trendiness, but the N900 really seems like a kickass piece of hardware and software to me.

Re:ok (1)

Aranykai (1053846) | more than 4 years ago | (#30241328)

Actually the Hero is somewhat limited in memory. That being said, it gives the choice to the user if they want to do something that needs more memory, unlike the iPhone which will simply terminate the other application. My point is that its deceptive to call the iPhone a multitasking phone compared to what else is out there. I have a couple apps that run constantly on my phone, one of which is an alternative keyboard. The iPhone is not capable of anything like that.

I too considered an N900 but I decided to go with the Hero for cost and the much cheaper data plans from sprint. I lost a few mhz and dont have 700+mb of virtual memory, but I dont really need that in my phone.

Re:ok (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30241390)

"Every modern multitasking operating system will, in a low-memory situation, terminate background processes in favour of foreground processes."

That's not true. Linux does that (at least the default config on most distros). But a lot of OS's will just fail to allocate new memory and keep the background processes, valuing integrity over availability.

What could happen is the background process starting to try to grab more memory, failing, and its error handler committing suicide.

Depending on what processes die, it's very possible for a background kill algorithm to render the system unusable, and in my experience that's more likely to be the case (I've seen legitimate OOM errors many times before, usually after accidentally making the process not terminate in a program I'm developing and not noticing the leak until I've run several iterations) and generally I can nuke a couple things directly and then save & exit the rest.

Re:ok (4, Interesting)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240460)

But by this logic, almost every phone on the market multitasks - e.g., my phone's built in mp3 player can run at the same time as the built in email client.

The point is that it doesn't run more than one third party application at once (which really means it's a feature phone, not a smartphone - unless you use the broader definition of smartphone that would also include all feature phones). For years, when people talked about multitasking on phones, this is what they meant - it's only with the Iphone that suddenly the terms have to be used differently, to hide the things it doesn't do, and pretend it's a "smartphone"...

Re:ok (3, Funny)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240870)

"The ONLY selling point of the iPhone is the ecosystem. Brand loyalty, huge number of apps and huge installed base."

Our THREE main selling points are the the brand loyalty, the huge number of apps and the huge install base. And the web browser.

Damn! Damn! I'll come back in.

Re:ok (4, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239832)

Not just the UI, it was the browser that made it sell well. There wasn't a single phone with a decent browser before the iPhone. Opera Mobile was somewhat decent, but compared so mobile Safari, Safari wins. This is a bit less of a selling point now with Android and others have decent browsers, but at the time if you wanted to surf the web you'd better get an iPhone. Yeah, the iPhone wasn't very innovative, but the fact that it had a complete package (ability to play music decently, videos, YouTube, good browser, later addition of apps, etc) made it a best seller even when tied to an overpriced network.

Re:ok (0, Flamebait)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240502)

made it a best seller

Citation needed. Because the stats I've seen don't show Apple as the best seller - Nokia are still dominant, followed by Samsung, then a load of other companies. And the RIM. Oh, and then Apple.

As for what you say - yes, when the Iphone came out, it was doing things better than phones previously. But that's true of just about all high end phones! It's called progress. When Opera Mobile (and Mini) appeared, they were better than things previously. And immediately after the Iphone, other phones from other companies continued to improve technology. That's the point - there's nothing special about the Iphone, apart from being one in a long line of high end phones from various companies. But for some reason, even years later, all we hear is Iphone Iphone Iphone, and never about any of the interesting developments from major players like Nokia.

Re:ok (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30240856)

Are you comparing best seller by brand, or by model? Nokia's models (except for the N900) are not exciting for the same reason Intel GMA graphics are not exciting.

Re:ok (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239880)

the drag-to-edge copy and paste implementation

Proof that Apple does indeed know how to implement copy/paste.

Re:ok (2, Interesting)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240074)

The iPhone was not very innovative from a technological point of view, but what it did to the market is nothing short of amazing. For a phone that sucked so badly in some functions, even really basic ones, it managed to create a buzz and won over many people (like myself) who had previously not used Apple products and were always a little ware of the fanboys. The iPhone's UI is a strong selling point, but I'd say the attractive package was a factor as well. The real kicker tough is the touch screen, without which that wonderful UI would not have been so great. I'm not thinking about pinch-zooming here, but about the ability to whip out the phone and use it without a stylus, even being able to quickly punch out an SMS using nothing but my chubby fingers.

All those things came together nicely for the first time in the iPhone; it's the first phone I've come across that really invites people to use it, especially when it comes to apps and the internet. Mobile data usage has jumped since the iPhone's introduction, and it has taken an astounding share of that usage compared to it's market share, even though many phones with similar capabilities already existed. Without being very innovative itself, it has proven to be a gamechanger in the market.

Re:ok (0, Flamebait)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240538)

Yes, it certainly created a "buzz", but I'm not sure that's anything other than a marketing achievement.

And yes, it's the first phone you've done things with, but you make the classic fallacy (common in "my OS/etc is best" geek arguments) of assuming that everyone's experience is the same. For me, the first phone that I used for Internet access and apps was the Motorola V980 phone. But I don't assume that therefore there's something special about it - I'm knowledgable about the actual reality and history of the mobile market. I don't demand three articles a day on Slashdot about the almighty Motorola V980. (And I'm not sure that the Iphone application technology is anything innovative - doesn't support cross-platform technology such as Java, only runs Apple approved applications, and can't multitask them.)

and it has taken an astounding share of that usage compared to it's market share

Citation needed?

Re:ok (1)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240950)

It's not just me, and it's not the first phone people used for Internet access. Email and browsing were possible on my previous smartphone, but I rarely used them because they were so cumbersome; if I was anywhere near a real computer I'd use that. On the iPhone I fing myself checking emails even when I am at my desktop computer. Yes, the user interface makes that much difference (and I wouldn't have believed that at first, either). Quite a few people around the office have an iPhone and they're easy to spot: they always have them out.

Then there's the apps that make information instantly accessible, which is another big improvement. Take the train schedule, on my old phone I had to navigate to the rail company's website, a sucky experience even with a mobile-enabled website. Looking up schedules, adding favorite trains, checking if the train is late, all of that is so much quicker. It makes the difference between having this information at your fingertips, and not bothering to use the phone to find out.

and it has taken an astounding share of that usage compared to it's market share

Citation needed?

iPhones account for 50% of USA smartphone data traffic in 2009 [androidworld.nl] (Note that the second table lists share of data traffic, not market share).

iPhone market share (as % of all smartphones) is 19% [theappleblog.com]

Re:ok (1)

speedingant (1121329) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239554)

Problem is, innovation doesn't sell and make large profits in the world of technology. Apple now plays it safe, copies ideas and makes them better and generally useable. Then they sell for a neat profit.

Re:ok (2, Insightful)

nomadic (141991) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239568)

Problem is, innovation doesn't sell and make large profits in the world of technology. Apple now plays it safe, copies ideas and makes them better and generally useable. Then they sell for a neat profit.

Which isn't a problem. What I don't like is the part where they turn around and proclaim themselves as innovators.

Re:ok (1, Insightful)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239676)

Which isn't a problem. What I don't like is the part where they turn around and proclaim themselves as innovators.

Microsoft has been doing the same for years now. Anyone that believes corporate propaganda should go out and get some fresh air.

Re:ok (3, Interesting)

nomadic (141991) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239700)

Microsoft has been doing the same for years now. Anyone that believes corporate propaganda should go out and get some fresh air.

And they are routinely derided for it. Like when they suddenly claimed that they invented symbolic links. Apple is not. It's not really the propaganda isn't what annoys me, it's the mindless worship from their fans that gets to me. And I LIKE Apple products. I think that right now they make the best computers out there. But I'm not going to switch that like to the company. A company is a piece of paper filed with the state.

Re:ok (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239916)

history and every industry that exists today would beg to differ.

Not everyone is successful with innovation, but innovation (and invention) are what can enable success.

Re:ok (4, Insightful)

noewun (591275) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240494)

The bigger issue here is the narrow definition of "innovation"* so often used at /. and other tech-centric places, in which innovation only means innovation in a strictly technological/programming/hardware sense of the word. Behind this conceit lies the assumption that the only innovation which matters is purely technological innovation, and all of the other aspects, including making these innovations easy to use and accessible for wide range of people, are looked up on as somehow less than.

Hence the constantly renewing Year of Linux on the Desktop, which ignores the fact even the best-packaged Linux distros are at best a mixed bag when it comes to usability. Hence the constant claims that the iPhone/iPod will soon fall from its perch because its focus is ease of use and accessibility and not "innovation". Hence the boiling down of the wide variety of things which must go into a successful product as "cool" or "marketing", etc.

Apple's particular current genius lies in its ability to take technology and package it for use by a wide variety of people who don't care about the technology per se, and a big part of this is the iPod Touch/iPhone's UI, which makes it so easy even your grandmother can tweet away to her heart's content. And I think the reason Apple catches so much flack here, and elsewhere, is that by giving the "sheep" access to the technology, it take away from the n3rd world the special acclaim they have given themselves for having access to that technology.

That thought aside, the fact that so very few tech companies are able to do what Apple does should tell you how incredibly difficult it is to do, and why it is as innovative as any other tech achievement. Microsoft has, quite literally, money to burn and the best they can do is constantly bandage over the larger usability nightmares in Windows and Windows Mobile. Palm had to almost die before they came up with WebOS. Gnome and KDE have a (relatively) large installed base and access to talented people and the best they can come up with is a model which, sometimes, is easier to use than Windows. YOur average cel phone UI is a nightmare of menus, submenus, confusing icons and deeply-buried features. And on and on.

Making technology easy to use is incredibly difficult and every bit as innovative as writing a new OS or designing a new chip. And, while Apple has made, and will continue, to make stupid decisions, when it comes to what they do, they do do it so very well.

*There is a further conceit here, as to the true nature of innovation. There seems to be the idea that "true" innovators are the geniuses who come up with a wholly original idea, develop that idea, get it to market and retire to sleep on a bed of money. Look at this history of technology and you will see that almost never happens. Almost every innovation you can think of is either an improvement on an earlier idea or a new combination of previously established technology and ideas. Henry Ford, to pick one at random, didn't invent a damn thing. He took the idea of assembly lines and interchangeable parts from weapons manufacture, combined it with a newly available urban workforce and clever marketing (any color you want as long as its black) which was actually based on sound logistical planning, and created the modern car industry. It's the same with the computer industry. Progress is the story of incremental improvement and assembly of ideas and not sudden advances out of nowhere.

Or that's my $0.02

Re:ok (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239560)

I have an iphone and love it. Amazing phone. But like just about everything else Apple has done, it's not really "innovative."

Of course the iphone is innovative. Who else but apple would think it's a good idea to blindly execute whatever program it receives by SMS?

http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/07/03/1210222/iPhone-Vulnerability-Yields-Root-Access-Via-SMS?from=rss [slashdot.org]

Re:ok (1)

Guy Harris (3803) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239908)

Of course the iphone is innovative. Who else but apple would think it's a good idea to blindly execute whatever program it receives by SMS?

Android? [blackhat.com] (They hadn't finished testing Windows Mobile as of when they published that paper.)

Re:ok (3, Informative)

drdrgivemethenews (1525877) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239590)

I have an iphone (3Gs) and hate it. Terrible phone. Nice toy though. Even though I hate the keyboard, I have to say that the large screen was the innovation that sold me: I can actually read a slashdot story on this device. But so many things are broken, it's just too much. Some of it is ATT, yes.

I'm going to Verizon Real Soon Now, for real phone service, and getting a real GPS, so my locator service will actually work when I need it, not just 1/3 of the time. Those are the two things I really wanted out of a phone, and I'm not getting either of them now.

Re:ok (1)

Rebelgecko (893016) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239878)

Well, if it needs a new home, I'd be willing to taking it off your hands, sans SIM card.

Sometimes packaging is the innovation (4, Insightful)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239662)

Um what? If the iPhone was nothing new, when it was released and even now, you wouldn't have competitors scrambling to catch up. If there was no innovation, there wouldn't be anything to catch up to.

Re:Sometimes packaging is the innovation (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240552)

Er, they're not scrambling to catch up on. Or okay, I'll bite - what are they scrambling to catch up? (And before you reply, I want actual features or objective examples, not undefined things like "Well it does it better, it just does", because obviously there's no way we can discuss or measure that.)

iPhone do two things "uniquely" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30240084)

Not because of any special engineering ability, but because they've simply made it an important design must for the iPhone.

They have a BIG ASS SCREEN in a slim package. Yes there are other phones with BIG ASS SCREENS, but they have these slide out keyboards that make the case thicker than J.Lo's booty. And the one HTC phone that has a BIG ASS SCREEN in a slender case, it's super EXPENSIVE AS SHIT.

The key to a beating the iPhone will be a BIG ASS SCREEN in a SLIM CASE, at a lower cost. Then will the tyranny of Steve Jobs end.

Re:iPhone do two things "uniquely" (1, Insightful)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240600)

When was the last time you checked out the mobile market? Pretty much every phone has large screens, and slim cases, even the dirt cheap ones, without keyboards (and as someone who would prefer an actual keyboard, I find it annoying).

(And before anyone says it was the Iphone that caused this - screens have continually being getting larger since before the Iphone, and it was an obvious progression to what we have now; the Iphone wasn't first with touchscreen AFAIK; and slim cases were around before - e.g., Motorola's RAZR.)

The key to a beating the iPhone

Check out the market share - most companies, such as Nokia and Samsung, are already beating it. Of course I'll probably be modded down for saying so, because debates on Apple stories are won by whoever has mod points (which is never me, incidentally), and not who speaks the facts.

Really? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30240822)

Name that supposed cheap ass phone with a screen AT LEAST as big as the iPhone's, and is as slim. There are none.

The very cheap Palm Pre you say? WRONG! The screen still isn't as big as the iPhone, and it's a slider, i.e. thick ass case.

Blackberry Storm? WRONG!!!! Another thick ass case monster and the screen is smaller.

Your vaunted OSS darling the G1? WRONG!!!! Smaller screen, bub.

Samsung Instinct? Very nice and slim, BUT still no cigar. The screen is way smaller.

So that leaves us with the Mike Tyson of cellphones, HTC and their HD2. Screen? Monstrous. Slimness. Makes the iPhone look like Star Jones. Price? $800 simmolians! Makes the iPhone look like welfare. And oh, functional anywhere in the world, just as long as it's not the USA. In other words, useless.

Re:ok (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30240178)

Not innovative? I'm not sure what does that means, but I don't remember to have seen a (multi-)touch Phone before the iPhone. Now the market is full of them, after the iP

Re:okChristmas sale, free shipping shoes,handbags. (0, Offtopic)

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Re:ok (3, Interesting)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 4 years ago | (#30241488)

And SCSI. And FireWire.

Innovative? (1, Interesting)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239468)

I'd have to say that neither is truly "innovative" because that would imply something new was present in either of them, rather than a remix of existing technologies and/or incremental improvements on them (such as minaturization). The only really innovative thing I've seen out of Apple in awhile has been the touch wheel on the iPods; Which was quite a departure from existing human interface designs at the time. The word "innovative" has been quite overused in this field.

Re:Innovative? (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239540)

Apple just likes the word because it begins with an i.

Would it be ironic that we over-use the word innovate, or would it be ironic if we created a new word to replace innovate?

Re:Innovative? (2, Funny)

Tumbleweed (3706) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239634)

Apple just likes the word because it begins with an i.

I expect they'll change their name to iPple as soon as they realize they need to, to outrun their bad reputation with app developers.

Re:Innovative? (0, Troll)

Evets (629327) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239684)

Even that touch wheel wasn't really something they thought of. They won the race to the patent office, but not by much.

Innovation is not necessarily invention (5, Insightful)

StreetStealth (980200) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240166)

See, that's the thing that Apple does so well. They don't invent things. They make other inventions actually work.

Through exhaustive design iteration and engineering, they develop ideas that are "nice on paper but useless in practice" into things that actually deliver on the invention's promise. From desktop UNIX to high-capacity music players to the mobile web browser, Apple invented none of these, yet they all sucked until Apple treated each one not as a feature problem but as a design and usability problem.

That's not invention. But if it isn't innovation, I don't know what is.

Then all phone companies innovate (0, Troll)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240626)

Yes, obviously the computers, mp3 players and phones simply didn't work at all before Apple came along.

And mobile web browsing was doing fine, years before. Yes, perhaps Apple was better than what came previous when it was first released, but that's true of all high end products! It's a natural consequence of any market where things get continually better. You can't point at Apple alone, and say "Look, they were (slightly) better than what was there before, therefore Apple are the greatest!", whilst conveniently ignoring every other high end phone in existance, before and after then, that made things better too!

Yes, Apple innovate. Just like every other technology company out there.

Re:Innovation is not necessarily invention (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30240632)

I hate to agree but your right.

Re:Innovative? (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240584)

I guess if you don't think usability can be innovative.

Newton wins? (2, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239472)

Shouldn't the iPhone get points in this comparison for not being the equivalent of carrying a Dell laptop's giant powerbrick around in your pocket?

I know this article was written all in fun, but - you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that'd want to carry a Newton around instead of an iPhone. Or a Newton instead of even a Windows Mobile device.

Re:Newton wins? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239768)

Me. Slightly nearsighted, slightly clumsy, like to be able to read instead of squint. Yup, still carry my archaic newton.

Re:Newton wins? (0)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240100)

Based on what Ive read and remember of such devices, Id much rather the thing be useable and have an OS designed for getting actual work done than use windows mobile. My one experience on it with the Touch Pro (which everyone raved about) was awful; it seems to me that when it takes 4-5 clicks to actually begin making a call on a phone, and you can easily hang up simply by bringing it to your face, the maker has lost touch with what the device is actually supposed to do well.

You may have a point with the iPhone, precisely because the iPhone doesnt do things that it cant do well. The same cannot be said for winmo. Its also the reason i will continue to love my blackberry despite how slow it can be at things like web browsing-- it does its primary functions very well (phonecalls, calendaring, contacts).

Newton Can't Play MP3's? Rubbish! (4, Interesting)

phase_9 (909592) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239504)

You can rock some serious MP3 Action in all it's 128kbps 22Khz Mono glory! - http://40hz.org/Pages/MADNewton [40hz.org]

cnet sucks balls (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239512)

& fuck apple

10 Years? Try 16 Years! (2, Informative)

Uire (573281) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239538)

The original Newton - the MessagePad - was released in 1993. Heck, The Steve *cancelled* Newton more than 10 years ago. Really.

Re:10 Years? Try 16 Years! (2, Informative)

julesh (229690) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239636)

The original Newton - the MessagePad - was released in 1993. Heck, The Steve *cancelled* Newton more than 10 years ago. Really.

That's the submitter's error. Article says the Newton was 10 years old last time they did such a comparison, against an early windows mobile device.

21 minutes later... (4, Funny)

iamapizza (1312801) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239550)

It's been 21 minutes since this article was posted. Where's the next Apple Slashvertisement? I keep refreshing the front page but there are no new stories. /wrists

Re:21 minutes later... (2, Funny)

Brett Buck (811747) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239566)

Hey, that's an excellent point - an article that concludes teh new hotness from Apple is inferior to a 10-year old product you can't buy is an oustanding and ingenious viral ad campaign. Color me impressed!

Re:21 minutes later... (3, Funny)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239668)

Study reveals 7-bit ASCII superior to 8-bit ASCII because you get a free bit with every letter!

Re:21 minutes later... (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240206)

Next marketing stunt for Post Cereals: Alpha-bits, now available in UTF-8*!

* not all characters are included in each box.

Re:21 minutes later... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30240334)

Waiter, there's a UCS-16 in my cereal.

Re:21 minutes later... (3, Funny)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239712)

I keep submitting this story called "How Incredibly Amazing is Apple?" With nothing but the link to the Apple Store copied and pasted 50 times over, but for whatever reason the Mods just won't post it.

What gives?

Re:21 minutes later... (2, Funny)

martas (1439879) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239788)

you forgot to include a comment comparing apple to MS or any other apple competitor, that's why.

Re:21 minutes later... (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239950)

I keep submitting this story called "How Incredibly Amazing is Apple?" With nothing but the link to the Apple Store copied and pasted 50 times over, but for whatever reason the Mods just won't post it.

What gives?

Just mention Firefox somewhere.

Tips to post a story (0, Offtopic)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240804)

1. Mention how you can access the Apple Store website On Your Iphone. That's a guaranteed way to get a story [slashdot.org] .

2. Include a token reference to Android, portraying them as the sole competition in the mobile market, so you can make Apple look better.

3. Not include the link to Apple. If you want to make wild claims about Apple and the Iphone, remember these are best done without a single citation.

Personally I'd say that this story is vaguely notable for once, due to it covering the Newton. But sadly I suspect it only made the front page because of the magic "Iphone" reference.

Re:21 minutes later... (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239770)

Ok, I looked at the history, and there was on average exactly one iPhone-mentioning “article” per day posted, since the 14th. And before that it does not get much smaller.

So you have to wait til’ tomorrow. Sorry. How about some porn to wank to: http://images.google.com/images?q=iphone [google.com] :D

Have to agree, from experience... (5, Interesting)

andhar (194607) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239556)

I had a Newton Message Pad 100 (the very first model) which I bought cheap in '94 on a whim. It was already totally outdated when I bought it. Still, in its lifetime, I printed from it, sent and received faxes from it, all kinds of stuff you'd normally need a computer for. Totally handy.

Come '96 and I'm in grad school and I take every note for the whole two years on that thing and it was GREAT. I mean really, had it been a pain would I have kept on the entire time? Having a pretty big screen meant you had plenty of room to scrawl out those notes on the screen, and as I had maybe not 'neat' handwriting, but at least consistent handwriting it worked great.

In 1996, being able to search your notes on the computer saved me so much time that I could have a band. So maybe having a Newton didn't get me chicks, but at least the band did!

Then, in 2000, I was still using it. But I accidentally left it on a conference room table after a meeting and it disappeared. It actually got STOLEN. In the 21st century.

Re:Have to agree, from experience... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239660)

>

Then, in 2000, I was still using it. But I accidentally left it on a conference room table after a meeting and it disappeared. It actually got STOLEN. In the 21st century.

It apparently had an off-by-one bug.

Re:Have to agree, from experience... (1)

RiffRafff (234408) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239674)

I used my MP2000 daily until a month ago. It suddenly lost its mind and all the data on its internal memory (stuff on my two pcmcia cards was okay, including a backup). It restored okay, but now I'm not sure I trust it. Maybe it was a fluke. I dunno. Still, there's something to be said for all that screen real estate.

Merry Thankfulgivings Pilgrims !! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239570)

Have a merry thansfulgivings Pilgrims !! May your turkies be on your plate and not your person !!

"Blam! Not even the iPhone can do that." (2, Funny)

tacarat (696339) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239576)

I really liked the part where the guy championing the Newton slapped KO'd his opponent with a link. She had previously written an article citing "The iPhone is the worst phone in the world" [cnet.co.uk] .

I'm sure they had great make up sex later on.

10 years? (0, Offtopic)

espiesp (1251084) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239592)

I thought the Newton was way closer to approaching 20 years?

Re:10 years? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239998)

The funny thing is that I clearly remember reading an article from the early 1990s about Newton application developers complaining about having to write all their apps in Apple's scripting language with a limited API.

Re:10 years? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30240066)

I was confused by this as well. According to Wikipedia, the first release was in 1993. They ceased development, which I presume to mean fired/relocated everyone involved in the project, in 1998.

This article was f-ing unreadable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239598)

What is this crap? Newtons way older than 10 years and I really didn't appreciate their trying to hip by personalizing each side (Flora? who? vs. some dude) where I don't even know wtf they are yapping on about. Unless I really cared about the "journalists" involved, which I don't, I couldn't get into their game here. Was expecting a decent read, not a textual equivalent of mythbusters/some_other_reality_show.

Apple Iphone 1G (1)

pdh11 (227974) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239626)

Since the first Iphone as such has become known as the "2G" and the second as the "3G", I suggest thinking of the Newton as the Iphone 1G. (OK, so there were a few different versions of the Newton itself. But at this distance in time, I think we can ignore that.)

Peter

Re:Apple Iphone 1G (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239786)

I can ignore the fact that there were many generations of Newtons, but how could I ignore the fact that (afaik) it was never a phone? It could be considered a 1G iPod touch.

Re:Apple Iphone 1G (1)

Guy Harris (3803) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239968)

I suggest thinking of the Newton as the Iphone 1G

It supports various analog cell phone technologies such as AMPS? :-)

Newton Users Can Run Their Choice of Apps (5, Insightful)

CritterNYC (190163) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239694)

One thing they left out in the app comparison is that Newton users can add in any apps they wanted. They're not limited to the ones approved by Apple in the gated community known as the App Store.

Re:Newton Users Can Run Their Choice of Apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30241028)

They're not limited to the ones approved by Apple in the gated community known as the App Store.

Neither are iPhone users. You can use any app a developer is willing to send your way [apple.com] (you'll get a couple of files that you drag and drop on iTunes, and that's about it), and you can even develop your own apps if you want to. The App Store is just a convenient way to get into your phone apps that have been approved by Apple.

The system does have its limitations, but, well, let's give some credit where it is due.

Re:Newton Users Can Run Their Choice of Apps (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 4 years ago | (#30241100)

I am sick and tired of everyone whining about apps. First, stop being lazy and call them applications. By calling them apps you are just feeding into the Apple marketing machines.

Second, there are a shitload of applications out there, the vast majority are shit, but some are really useful. I never care about a machine that can't do what I don't want it to do. I don't care that my care can't go 100 miles an hour. I don't care that my fridge isn't cooled by NO2. I don't care that my pencil is not self powered. Sure these things would be cool, but why go online and whine about it. If it is an issue, buy or build a machine that does what you want. If it is not, then move onto things we can fix.

Third, writing stuff for the newton was non trivial. I did some playing with it. It was not ultimately something I wanted to get invovled with. OTOH, the iPhone development process seems quite easy. If it were possible to write personal applications to run on personal devices I would do so. Fortunately, as mentioned, the iPhone has applications that can do most anything, for a very resonable cost. And multiple personal devices are licensed.

In the end there is only one critical difference that matters here. The newton has limited sync ability with other machines. You had your data on your newton. You had your data on your desktop. Both machines were wonderful on their on. Both were gully networked, both had good, but diffrent filesystems. They did not work well together, at least not out of the box.

Palm was the company that solved this problem. A machine that was a assistant to the user, an intermidiary between your computer and the rest of the world. The iPhone took the best parts of the newton, the palm, with a phone hacked in.

Connectivity is they key. It is why the Kindle is the tablet, and everyone one else is just a reader. Even if ther is no app for that.

quality journos? (4, Funny)

arikol (728226) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239718)

Wow... just.... wow

That must be the worst written article I've read this month. Or possibly ever.

Hey, I know, let's next compare a raft made of barrels to the International Space Station and let's have the raft win because it has easier access and is cheaper to make and maintain.

Again. Just... wow

what's new? It's Apple!! *squirt* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239838)

And what's new in that? Almost all the iphone slashvertisements have been of similar quality. Even NYT/Pogue have been doing it for years.

When it comes to anything Apple, as long as there are several references of "OOK! SHINY!!!", it's a good apple article.

Now excuse me while I go and puke myself to death.

Re:quality journos? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239870)

The apple newton is more than 10 years old. Development started 20 years ago and I had one in 1993. This article is crap.

Re:quality journos? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30240642)

The ISS doesn't float. So yes the raft does win, as you can buy and use them for something.

Re:quality journos? (1)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240816)

yeah that article was seriously pathetic. Disappointing, too, as it would be interesting to read something insightful about this topic. I am still a big fan of the Newton and I wish Apple would come out with a modern version of the emate 300. I think there would be a lot of very interesting things to say about comparing these products, not as a "which is better?" smackdown but rather in terms of discussing some very promising technology from 15 years ago and the extent to which that promise has been realized (or not).

Re:quality journos? (1)

vosester (1163269) | more than 4 years ago | (#30241088)

As much as I hate CNET’s cheesy articles this was obviously meant as a joke fluff piece.

Look at the banners depicting the fight. It was just a whimsical piece of old tech vs new tech.

Overall it has shown we may have more pixels and pretty colours now.
But we have not come that far, innovation wise since the 90’s.

Re:quality journos? (1)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 4 years ago | (#30241544)

this was obviously meant as a joke fluff piece.

Well, it was a CNET Crave article. I think Crave is intended as a (not so stealthy) stealth parody of tech media. Either that or it's Slashdot's equivalent of Idle: So intentionally bad that it makes the rest of the website look much better in comparison.

Daily Apple Slashvertisement again. (0, Offtopic)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239738)

Ok, can we please stop the daily iPhone “story”? It’s getting silly, because it’s so in-your-face clear that it’s just viral marketing. I know that that is the area Apple is really good at. (Not the products. The dreams about them.)

But I don’t think even the most crazy fanboy can still stand the annoyance of this.

How do I block this from coming up in my RSS feed. Because I seriously consider to stop reading Slashdot at all it that is not possible.

Re:Daily Apple Slashvertisement again. (3, Insightful)

dbcad7 (771464) | more than 4 years ago | (#30239922)

Hey, constant reinforcement is needed so that people know that the money spent and being spent on a phone and plan is justified. I like my phone too (It's an Android), but I don't need to be constantly told how smart or cool I am, based upon my purchase.. dumbasses and jerks can spend money on these things too.. and probably think it changes them somehow.. how sad.

Re:Daily Apple Slashvertisement again. (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240058)

You insensitive clods!

Us fanboys need those articles. Otherwise we get shaky and irritable. And sad.

Right now is an especially bad time what with the holidays, the recession, the War in Afghanistan and the vague status of the iTablet (not necessarily in that order).

Have some mercy.

Re:Daily Apple Slashvertisement again. (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240126)

I don't block this, but you can use Yahoo Pipes to setup a filter, it's nice. You just have to drag a "fetch" module and fill the source feed URL, then connect it to a "filter" modules and choose the keyword(s), and finally connect it to "Pipe Output" and save, afterwords it'll provide you an URL you can use on your reader. I use it for embedding cartoons in feeds which only provide a link to the cartoon, like Explosm.

I think Google as something similar, but I've never used it.

Re:Daily Apple Slashvertisement again. (2, Insightful)

thestudio_bob (894258) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240148)

You know, I've been seeing this exact same comment on a lot of tech sites lately. Heck, there's quite a few of them on this article alone. At first, I was like "Welcome to what it was like for us Apple guys 5-10 years ago", (not that I ever posted that, I just thought it). But the more I think about it, I think it just means that the iPhone, iPod, Apple, etc., is going more mainstream. I don't think its a purposeful marketing strategy on anyones part (maybe it is and I'm too blinded to see), but more or less just a natural affect of its growing user market.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there was something coming out of MS, Verizon, Dell, or the likes that was interesting, I'm sure we would be flooded with the same kind of daily stories about it. But that's just not happening. Is it because they are not producing anything that people feel compelled to write about or is it because they know that if they write something that has an "i" in the headline, then they will generate hits. Not sure, but it's kind of interesting either way.

And on a side note, your "viral" theory can be applied to your comment as well. How do I know that all the "I'm getting sick of all the Apple" comments aren't made by paid shills or some viral marketing company trying to make Apple look un-cool or whatever. Sure it's a conspiracy theory, but it's no less of one than yours.

Re:Daily Apple Slashvertisement again. (2, Insightful)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240736)

And sure enough, just after I post about how people here seem to have no idea of the phone market, one comes along:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there was something coming out of MS, Verizon, Dell, or the likes that was interesting

Well, what about all of the interesting phones that are coming from Nokia, Samsung, Motorola etc? Virtually zero coverage, it's been that way for years - so yes, I'm correcting you that you are wrong :)

Unless for some reason, there's something special about MS, Verizon, Dell and Apple that they deserve coverage, but not the existing phone companies?

As for viral, I don't think he's suggesting that it's planted by Apple shills - personally I don't, but the point is that Apple are very good at getting other companies and individuals to give them free advertising and hype. No shills needed.

Re:Daily Apple Slashvertisement again. (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240702)

Hear hear. (And actually, I'm surprised that there's only one today, for once.)

It's particularly odd, given the small market share of the Iphone. If it was the Ipod, sure, I could understand - the largest in that market. Hell, even Macs have a larger market share, yet there are only occasional stories about them. But for the Iphone, there are quite literally daily stories - with virtually zero coverage of any of the other mobile phone companies (e.g., Nokia, who have about 40% of the market).

And the viral marketing works. I thought this was a place for people to be knowledgable about technology, but there are people who seriously believe that Apple sell more phones than anyone else (or even that they are in the majority - more than everyone else put together). They actually believe that the Iphone is the only phone, or the first phone, that can do things such as accessing the Internet. They still think that most phones in the market are still using WAP - something that was around 10 years ago.

Oh but occasionally we get stories about Blackberry and Android - also minor players - so I don't know what the logic is. Although coverage of Blackberry and Android seems mainly so they can be presented as token competition ("Look, the Iphone is better than them, or was before them", whilst pretending that that's all the market consists of.)

Re:Daily Apple Slashvertisement again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30240800)

Better than the daily MSFT bashing article or the Linux On the Desktop Apologist commentary.

eat up marton (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239772)

eat up matron the ihpone has the same stuff with that small key board.

Biased? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239782)

This article disturbs me somewhat because it appears as though they are suggesting the Apple iPhone is the best phone out there. I would LOVE to see a pole questioning the intelligent public (meaning those who actually looked around with unbiased interest) what the best phone is. Compare to the G1 (a.k.a. Dream) and the G1 wins in almost every category.

Ten years ago? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30239898)

"Despite the Newton being released some 10 years ago..."

Huh? I remember these things hitting in the early 90's. Closer to 20 years ago.

The newton was ground breaking (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#30240516)

The iphone, well, its a phone...

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