Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Emulating New Super Mario Bros. Wii At 1080p

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the super-high-def-mario dept.

Emulation (Games) 76

KingofGnG writes "An impressive confirmation of the Dolphin Wii emulator's capabilities comes from a YouTube video, which shows off recently-added video clips of New Super Mario Bros. Wii in full HD. It demonstrates the growing compatibility of Dolphin with the latest games published for the Nintendo console."

cancel ×

76 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

1080 (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30333132)

woot?

Good start (4, Insightful)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 4 years ago | (#30333140)

This is a great start. The advantage of the Wii to the emulator community is that it is greatly underpowered compared to 360 and PS3. I don't mean underpowered in that it can't play games, but that the requirements to emulate it are much lower. Since people have already hacked the Wiimote to work as a mouse [wordpress.com] then there is no reason why the emulator community would not be able to incorporate this to use the real controllers.

The benefit to Nintendo is that they would still be able to sell their hardware add-ons to the emulator world. The downside is that this will act as a modded Wii and so people will probably just download the Wii games, which will still mean that Nintendo will try to shut them down eventually.

Perhaps by the time this emulator works with enough games to make it viable, they will have already come up with the Wii2 and then they won't care so much about people emulating the old system.

I think that Nintedo should have preempted this. The best solution for them would have been to release their own PC version of the Wii which can run the legit games and use the official peripherals. The pressure for other people to write an emulator would have reduced.

I stopped buying games for my PC when copy protection got intrusive and sometimes destructive. These days, I don't trust any games that insists on running as administrator and I always research the copy protection system. If Nintendo created a software Wii that sandboxed itself from the rest of the computer, I would happily play the games knowing that my system would be (mostly) safe.

Re:Good start (2, Interesting)

Kagura (843695) | more than 4 years ago | (#30333296)

Interesting idea, especially since specialized hardware hasn't really been needed for console gaming/emulation since the early 2000s. I would pay half the price of the console for an official Nintendo/Xbox/PS emulator, and I would also pay money for controllers.

Too bad. :(

Re:Good start (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30333312)

Dolphin already supports using wiimotes, and given a fast enough system, it runs quite a few games perfectly at full speed.

Re:Good start (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30333328)

What video game caused damage to your system and what copy protection system was in act? I bet with a simple Google search I could probably find an answer to your problem or maybe that you were the one who caused it, not the game.

Vague references and fear mongering about DRM seem to go hand in hand around here, but the reality is they do not affect the system and nobody around here ever wants to seem to link to a benchmark showing that it is affecting their system or point to a specific file as the enemy.

They did the whole bullshit around here that Vista was affected by DRM and it was slowing it down, without one reference to an article or benchmarks. Supposedly all the Win7 articles around here following up to the release of it indicated that Win7 DRM system was supposed to be the ultimate and it would lock down your system.

My guess is that you do all your researching through Slashdot and not through a forum where some teenage tech literate kid could have told you a much more technical answer.

Let me guess, you are worried about security yet you probably still use XP. You want a sandboxed environment, get Vista/Win7/MacOS

Re:Good start (1)

eqisow (877574) | more than 4 years ago | (#30333340)

What? You think rootkits [wikipedia.org] are OK?

Re:Good start (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30333934)

It sounds like he wasn't aware of the kinds of things DRM does, ie. rootkits.

Re:Good start (1)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 4 years ago | (#30343490)

Rootkits never killed anybody!

Re:Good start (2, Informative)

Gwala (309968) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335772)

> What video game caused damage to your system and what copy protection system was in act? I bet with a simple Google search I could probably find an answer to your problem or maybe that you were the one who caused it, not the game.

Starforce. It sent commands to the DVD drives in question directly; in a manner which was not supposed to be done (to read some sectors outside the normal range). Some DVD drives apparently ended up with a mechanical failure as a result.

Re:Good start (3, Insightful)

denmarkw00t (892627) | more than 4 years ago | (#30333608)

I think that Nintedo should have preempted this. The best solution for them would have been to release their own PC version of the Wii which can run the legit games and use the official peripherals. The pressure for other people to write an emulator would have reduced.

Wait what? Let us start at "Nintendo should have preempted this." Nevermind. "PC version of the Wii" - I gather what you mean is "Software for computers capable of running Wii games." While not at all a bad idea, and one I've wanted for a long time to be official from Nintendo for things such as NES, SNES and 64 games, its not going to happen...probably. Considering that one of the Wii's competitors is owned by the company most known for having a stranglehold on the OS market, I don't know that Nintendo would like this. Suddenly, they lose profit on hardware in exchange for adding to their competitor's gaming market share? Nah, though MS would probably welcome the idea with open arms. You can sell a Wii for a lot more than you can software that emulates (and not always predictably accurate) said software, whats the point? You don't want to invest in a console rollout so that you can bleed out of every chopped off limb by running your software on PCs.

"The pressure for other people to write an emulator would have reduced." - Kind of backwards - its much easier to pirate something that already runs on your target system. Granted, piracy isn't emulation per se, you stand to lose way more by allowing your games to be run natively on systems you don't own, service, upgrade and control. Demand for emulation would obviously drop, but demand for piracy of games and software to run them would skyrocket.

I stopped buying games for my PC when copy protection got intrusive and sometimes destructive. These days, I don't trust any games that insists on running as administrator.

I'll be honest, I haven't gamed on a computer in a while - at least not on a PC and mostly OSS games. But, last time I can think of, not many games out there require Administrator rights to run. Maybe you have Windows Vista? And you're thinking of the installation process? And even then I don't know if I believe you. Games, more than most any other software on your computer, should have no issues running in userspace, and companies like MS probably see it in their interests to give average users access to DirectX-related hardware.

Re:Good start (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334424)

Suddenly, they lose profit on hardware in exchange for adding to their competitor's gaming market share?

You are assuming that people haven't already got a computer and paid money to Microsoft. You are also assuming that Nintendo couldn't make their emulator work on the Mac as well. This would not really add anything to Microsoft's market share.

Suddenly, they lose profit on hardware in exchange for adding to their competitor's gaming market share?

They can still charge for the software and quite probably still make exactly the same profit on the software that they do on the hardware. Besides, there is more profit in the Wii Fit board that costs a third of the price of the Wii for just a few sensors in a plastic case. That's the genius of the Wii product line.

"The pressure for other people to write an emulator would have reduced." - Kind of backwards - its much easier to pirate something that already runs on your target system.

This doesn't make sense at all. You seem to be suggesting that an emulator is piracy. People write an emulator so they can run a Wii game on their PC. If that software already exists officially (an isn't too expensive), why would someone feel the need to write another one?

But, last time I can think of, not many games out there require Administrator rights to run. Maybe you have Windows Vista?

Here's a random example. The current weekend special on Steam is Tomb Raider Underworld [steampowered.com] . According to the system requirements, it runs on "Microsoft Windows XP (admin rights required)/Microsoft Windows Vista (admin rights required)". Most recent games don't do that, but I can tell you (as someone who has run as a limited user since NT4.0) that it used to be the norm a few years back.

Re:Good start (3, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334532)

Suddenly, they lose profit on hardware in exchange for adding to their competitor's gaming market share?

You are assuming that people haven't already got a computer and paid money to Microsoft.

It's a valid assumption considering Microsoft's lead over Apple in the market for desktop computer operating systems.

You are also assuming that Nintendo couldn't make their emulator work on the Mac as well. This would not really add anything to Microsoft's market share.

Both Microsoft and Apple are "their competitor" in video gaming: Xbox 360 in video game consoles and iPod Touch in handhelds, especially with Apple's recent ad campaigns promoting it as a DS replacement.

They can still charge for the software

Not once pirates thoroughly crack the emulator to play ripped copies. If you've been following gbatemp or maxconsole, you know how easy it became for a PC to run pirated DS games. It's still a bit more work to run pirated games on a Wii than on a PC.

People write an emulator so they can run a Wii game on their PC.

Does the emulator run well on the $300 entry-level PC from Dell? If not, the PC needs an upgrade. Think of how much it would cost to upgrade the PC with a faster CPU and a non-Intel video card and then add on a Wii Remote ($40) and a Nunchuk ($20). Now compare that to the retail price of a Wii ($200). Besides, you still need the Wii in order to dump your game discs, which use a slightly rearranged format for physical sectors that PC DVD-ROM drives' firmware can't recognize.

Re:Good start (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334720)

It's a valid assumption considering Microsoft's lead over Apple in the market for desktop computer operating systems.

You have that backwards. How can it be a valid assumption that people don't already have a computer? Let me state it plainly. 99.999% of people who get a Wii emulator already have a computer on which to play it. They do not need to pay Microsoft or Apple just to run that software.

If you've been following gbatemp or maxconsole, you know how easy it became for a PC to run pirated DS games.

Absolutely. I wrote about DS piracy recently [slashdot.org] . Despite the large amount of DS piracy, DS titles still sell really well. The fact that some people will do the wrong thing doesn't mean that everyone will. And you know, it still is possible to pirate Wii games now, as long as you have a modded console.

Does the emulator run well on the $300 entry-level PC from Dell? If not, the PC needs an upgrade.

Did you see the specs of the computer running the Dolphin demo on YouTube in TFA? "Core 2 Duo E8400 CPU overclocked at 3,8 GHz, GPU NVIDIA GTX 260 and 4 Gigabytes of RAM." That is about average for a games computer these days. If you don't one that fast then maybe buying a Wii is cheaper, but chances are anyone interesting in gaming WILL have a system that fast.

Re:Good start (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335330)

Well, some of us don't have any of those new fangled computers, or DVD players. Or CD players. We don't buy any media, so clearly we're pirating the media we don't buy.

Re:Good start (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335566)

Well, some of us don't have any of those new fangled computers, or DVD players. Or CD players. We don't buy any media, so clearly we're pirating the media we don't buy.

Well if only I owned a telephone, I would report you to the authorities.

"Games computer" vs. "office computer" (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335784)

How can it be a valid assumption that people don't already have a computer?

I assume people already have an office computer, not a games computer. Also, a sufficiently old games computer becomes an office computer due to system requirements creep.

Let me state it plainly. 99.999% of people who get a Wii emulator already have a computer on which to play it.

A years-old used computer or even a brand-new computer with Intel graphics isn't going to be able to emulate a Wii at anywhere near 60 frames per second.

That is about average for a games computer these days.

The fact that you had to specify "games computer" tells a lot. There is no "games Wii" vs. "office Wii"; if you have a Wii, you know you can play games carrying the Wii logo. This isn't true of PCs, which often come with Intel GMA graphic chipsets. As I understand it, Intel GMA 950 and the like compare to a Voodoo3-era video card in that both lack hardware vertex processing. They're fine for browsing the web and watching (non-interactive) videos but grossly underpowered for 3D video games. Or does the second core in a dual-core CPU adequately handle T&L?

If you don't one that fast then maybe buying a Wii is cheaper

So we agree.

Re:"Games computer" vs. "office computer" (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 4 years ago | (#30337330)

I assume people already have an office computer, not a games computer. Also, a sufficiently old games computer becomes an office computer due to system requirements creep.

I...I..I really don't get why people do this. Do you really think that just because some software won't run on every computer in the world that it shouldn't be made. You might as well close the entire games industry because the Amish wouldn't be able to play the games.

I never suggested that Nintendo should stop producing the Wii in favour of an emulator. It would just be an option for those people who want it. We don't need to start having telethons to buy a powerful enough PCs for all the destitute African children before you can start making the software. It wouldn't have to run on that 8086 that still running in the Romanian technology museum. PC gamers understand that they need to look at the system requirements when they buy any software. We have had to do this ever since Ada Lovelace asked Charles Babbage whether his computer could play Solitaire.

There are plenty of reasons why Nintendo would not make an emulator. The fact that some people (who obviously aren't that interested in games) wouldn't be able to run it would not be a major factor.

If you don't one that fast then maybe buying a Wii is cheaper

So we agree.

Yes! It is so blindingly obvious that it should not have ever needed to be said.

Re:"Games computer" vs. "office computer" (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30339214)

I...I..I really don't get why people do this. Do you really think that just because some software won't run on every computer in the world that it shouldn't be made.

I don't remember having said that it shouldn't be made, only that Nintendo won't make it. I apologize for writing so unclearly.

Re:"Games computer" vs. "office computer" (1)

ToasterMonkey (467067) | more than 4 years ago | (#30341166)

I...I..I really don't get why people do this. Do you really think that just because some software won't run on every computer in the world that it shouldn't be made.

I...I..I really don't get why people do this. Do you really think that just because some software could run on a computer that it should.

I never suggested that Nintendo should stop producing the Wii in favour of an emulator.

"Just give me what I want, neeeeooowwww."

You might as well close the entire games industry because the Amish wouldn't be able to play the games.

"PC game market:PC market::World:Amish"

It would just be an option for those people who want it.

"I want it so you should make it for me."

We don't need to start having telethons to buy a powerful enough PCs for all the destitute African children before you can start making the software. It wouldn't have to run on that 8086 that still running in the Romanian technology museum.

"Fuck you, I'm gaming."

PC gamers understand that they need to look at the system requirements when they buy any software. We have had to do this ever since Ada Lovelace asked Charles Babbage whether his computer could play Solitaire.

"It's good enough for me, it's good enough for everyone else."

We have had to do this ever since Ada Lovelace asked Charles Babbage whether his computer could play Solitaire.

"I love cabbage."

The fact that some people (who obviously aren't that interested in games) wouldn't be able to run it would not be a major factor.

Your problem is you're making it seem that people who can't run it are not interested in it. People who want to but can't are a MAJOR problem.

If you have never been informed, being part of the tiny "can/will/would pay" segment of the PC market doesn't give you much sway in the real world.
I bet you'd want cut-throat pricing on it too, in spite of your insignificance.

Re:Good start (1)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 4 years ago | (#30337388)

Does the emulator run well on the $300 entry-level PC from Dell? If not, the PC needs an upgrade.

Actually, depending on the quality of the emulator, it very well might not. For a long time, emulating PPC on an x86 platform was considered the "holy grail" of hardware emulation. There's just no way to do it simply or efficiently.

PearPC can emulate a PPC macintosh, although it employs some clever tricks to make it run at a vaguely usable speed. Even then, you still take more than a tenfold performance hit. Apple's Rosetta software is the first (and only AFAIK) successful PPC emulation solution out there.

Re:Good start (1)

schweinhund (119060) | more than 4 years ago | (#30343502)

I can't take anyone who has a Netflix ad in their signature seriously. Or most any other blatant billboard bs.

-1 Shameless Shill

Program Files and copy authentication (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334464)

But, last time I can think of, not many games out there require Administrator rights to run.

Unlike retail Wii games, most retail PC games don't run directly from the disc, even though a lot of newer PCs have enough RAM to hold a DVD game's "minimal install". The installer needs administrative privileges; otherwise, it can't even write to Program Files. It's like on Linux: ordinary users can't write to /usr/bin, but root can (and thus so can anyone who can sudo). Where should a user without administrative privileges install the game?

Maybe you have Windows Vista?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you implying that Windows 7, Mac OS X 10.6, and Ubuntu Karmic are any better than Windows Vista at this?

Games, more than most any other software on your computer, should have no issues running in userspace

Sure, they run in user space like any other executable. But a few major-label retail PC games need the use of some privileges traditionally assigned to the "Administrators" group. Major-label retail PC games that don't require Internet activation tend to hack deep into the system to determine whether the copy of the game is authentic. One system involves precisely correlating the timing of reads to determine the skew from one part of a disc to next, which differs between original and CD-R copies. And some of this copy authentication needs a kernel module to make the timing more accurate.

Consoles are perceived not to have as much of a problem with copy authentication because the console maker chooses one method and sticks with it, and the system menu (not the app) performs this check. For the GameCube and Wii, this involves a slightly different physical sector format (analogous to the difference between CD-ROM Mode 1 and Mode 2 form 1 [wikipedia.org] ) as well as burning six evenly spaced pinholes into the disc's lead-in and recording the exact locations of these pinholes in the Burst Cutting Area.

Re:Program Files and copy authentication (1)

xouumalperxe (815707) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334842)

The installer needs administrative privileges; otherwise, it can't even write to Program Files. It's like on Linux: ordinary users can't write to /usr/bin, but root can (and thus so can anyone who can sudo). Where should a user without administrative privileges install the game?

And also, much like Linux, after root installed the application and set permissions to 755, everybody can run it, which is what the OP was talking about. Except, of course, many games do stupid shit like having their config files in their installation directory rather than in the user's home (which means it needs admin rights to write configurations), and many more games use really low-level stuff to make their DRM work, which, once again, requires admin rights.

Re:Program Files and copy authentication (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335612)

Except, of course, many games do stupid shit like having their config files in their installation directory rather than in the user's home (which means it needs admin rights to write configurations)

Where should a program place a config file shared by all users? My first guess would be inside %ALLUSERSPROFILE%\Application Data\%publisher%\%title%, but who can ordinarily write there?

ObWii: Wii handles this by making the equivalent of a separate user account for each application, and individual applications manage accounts within that, possibly using Mii names.

Re:Good start (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30336246)

Nintendo could release an emulator only for the mac if they want to hurt their enemy in console land, allowing them to give the thing a name even sillier... iWii. They could even go iiWii, or release a Linux version with some bizarre dependency with KDE and call it kiWii, that surely will have a market in New Zealand.

TV-in card (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334396)

Perhaps by the time this emulator works with enough games to make it viable, they will have already come up with the Wii2 and then they won't care so much about people emulating the old system.

Nintendo has already come up with the Super NES, N64, GameCube, and Wii, yet it still cares about use of its copyrighted games in Free emulators because it competes unfairly[1] with Virtual Console.

The best solution for them would have been to release their own PC version of the Wii which can run the legit games and use the official peripherals.

They did: it's called a Wii console connected to a TV-in card.

I stopped buying games for my PC when copy protection got intrusive and sometimes destructive.

Do you still buy indie games, whose copy protection is far less intrusive? Nintendo is proudly unfriendly to small-time developers.

[1] "Unfairly" as decided by legislators elected by voters throughout the developed world.

Re:TV-in card (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335340)

Nintendo has always been like that, well at least since the days of the NES. Of course they still care about copyright on their games, they insist on making people buy a new copy if they wish to use their old copy on a new console or if the original gets damaged. Sure it's not as evil as what the RIAA and MPAA do, but it's not really that much better. Fortunately for us, MS and Sony don't seem to be quite as bad in that respect, probably because they don't have that much legacy software to resell to people.

Re:TV-in card (1)

rtechie (244489) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385614)

competes unfairly[1] with Virtual Console.

[1] "Unfairly" as decided by legislators elected by voters throughout the developed world.

Um, the logic here is flawed. The copyright laws (such as the DMCA) and enforcement actions against emulators long predate the existence of the wii and it's Virtual Console, so it's not possible that legislators intended to protect the Virtual Console in creating those laws.

Out-of-print fair use (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30388096)

The copyright laws (such as the DMCA) and enforcement actions against emulators long predate the existence of the wii and it's Virtual Console

Fair use in a given country may be broader for out-of-print works than for in-print works. When a copyright owner takes a work out of print, that action says something about the copyright owner's own assessment of "the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work" (17 USC 107 [copyright.gov] ). In fact, I remember reading that some countries include out-of-print status explicitly in their counterparts to the effect on market test.

Re:Good start (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30334618)

Nintendo has always been incredibly hostile to the emulator community. But now that they are coding emulators themselves and selling roms, basically, in their own online store, I think that Dolphin would have a decent chance at getting bought by "the big N".

Dolphin could be used to create an embedded legacy console based on cheap x86 hardware that could be sold through OEMs - for instance through TV companies that want to ship their TV with built-in gaming. The Nintendo online store and any other x86-compatible software could built-in as well, of course.

Re:Good start (2, Insightful)

hufman (1670590) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334814)

I think that a $200 Wii is much much cheaper than any x86 hardware capable of running Dolphin at full speed, without any glitches.

Re:Good start (3, Insightful)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335350)

If you divide the price for the number of games (not only Wii games) that it can run, the x86 is *much* cheaper.

Re:Good start (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335364)

Yes, but it's not open source and it doesn't come with 20 hours of tinkering included.

A Trend, Perhaps? (2, Interesting)

dancingmad (128588) | more than 4 years ago | (#30333186)

A lot of these 2D games for these Wii seem to look great at 1080 (well, by a lot I mean this and Muramasa; The Demon Blade). I wonder if this is proof that there may be in fact a Wii HD in the works. I thought they were just the normal fanboy rumors but perhaps Nintendo is already planning on it? Between the motion controls on the other two machines (especially the PS3's) it seems like the 3 major consoles are reaching for parity with each other.

No. (4, Insightful)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 4 years ago | (#30333332)

Nintendo wouldn't put in extra large textures because they don't have the RAM to load them into. Even if they did put them in, they wouldn't load them because loading the extra large textures would make load times worse to absolutely no advantage on the Wii.

You're seeing a few items that look good because at times they are viewed zoomed in. And the rest of the stuff is just stretched and it still looks pretty good because cartoony graphics are very amenable to stretching. And then some other stuff (like the coins) still don't look that good.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear Nintendo did plan ahead and draw their textures in higher res for future HD use. But I would be surprised to hear the put them on the disc, let alone loaded them in.

Re:No. (2, Informative)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30333986)

I'm pretty sure the routinely draw stuff in high-res anyway, for promotional material. However, the versions on the disc are always downsampled to more reasonable levels, to save disc space and RAM.

Um, yes? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30335626)

Games might have both high and low res textures on the disc, and which ones are loaded depends on the hardware you play it on.

Re:Um, yes? (1)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 4 years ago | (#30336044)

Three problems with that:

1. There's only one kind of hardware right now. Regular Wii.
2. If Nintendo comes out with a new HD machine, trust me they'll want to sell you a new copy of Super Mario Bros. This is already like the 14th version of Super Mario Bros, you think they wouldn't make another? "Come get Super Mario Bros Super Wii, same shit you had already, now HD. $49.95"
3. If the game knows to load higher res textures, it'd be because it detected it was on the new Super Wii. Except Dolphin can only emulate what it knows exists, how would it communicate to the game it was a Super Wii when there's no Super Wii to emulate? Nintendo would have to essentially actively support Dolphin as an individualized target, and they aren't going to do that.

Re:Um, yes? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30339182)

If Nintendo comes out with a new HD machine, trust me they'll want to sell you a new copy of Super Mario Bros. This is already like the 14th version of Super Mario Bros, you think they wouldn't make another? "Come get Super Mario Bros Super Wii, same shit you had already, now HD. $49.95"

Only not. That's like saying I have three copies of Lord of the Rings on my bookshelf.

Re:A Trend, Perhaps? (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 4 years ago | (#30333864)

Most emulators can upscale, even if that just means rescaling the buffer to fill the current window / screen resolution. The more sophisticated ones can also translate vector / 3D draw instructions. For example if the emulated device thinks its drawing a triangle into a 640x480 buffer, the emulator could draw the corresponding rescaled triangle into a 1280x960 buffer. And the same for other primitives such as lines, triangle fans etc., and any texturing. It means smoother edges on polys although there might be issues with seams.

I believe that any Wii HD could pull off a similar trick if it wished, and probably should. Depends on what the "Wii HD" is of course. If its a Wii with an HDMI port, I expect it will just upscale the entire buffer which would be a pretty shitty trick to pull on consumers. If its a genuine hardware bump with proper BC, then it could do what emulators do.

Re:A Trend, Perhaps? (1)

rabtech (223758) | more than 4 years ago | (#30336218)

The super mario game in question is rendered in full 3D, it just has a locked point of view to simulate the 2D side scroller/platformer. This is actually a fairly common tactic these days; even "true" 2D games themselves are rendered in 3D space as ordered sprites, which is why you see some of them using shaders or other effects. In fact the Mac OS X and Windows 7 desktops are also rendered as a texture over a 3D polygon. If you could change the "camera" on the desktop you'd see a two triangles forming a rectangle floating in space with the desktop rendered as a texture on top of it.

Anyway the reason Mario looks good scaled up is that a lot of the fill in is it is done with simple shaders, cartoony textures, or gradients that either scale along with the geometry or don't look too bad when blown up, but if you look really closely at the footage you can certainly tell in a few spots that the artists didn't design the game for that resolution.

Still, the reason I haven't bought any Wii games in 1.5+ years is the lack of HD; The games just look terrible on my HDTV and I end up playing my Xbox 360. I swore not to buy any PS3 games after the first one I bought said 1080i on the back but didn't actually support that resolution. That's when I found out Sony saved $1.00 by not including a hardware scaler like the Xbox 360, so if the game can't render to 1080i I'm forced to drop back to 480i/p. Since the boxes lie about what resolutions they support, I simply won't buy PS3 games.

I'm not an Xbox fanboy (I've got a real job and don't have time to argue about which console is better), I just know that the Xbox always renders in high-def to my TV and it is the only console to do so. If Nintendo would release a Wii HD that was also backwards-compatible with the Wii (which can obviously be done as dolphin shows), I would grab one without question.

Awesome... Props to nintendo. (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 4 years ago | (#30333190)

Nice to see that all the game's resources aren't suffering from being upscaled. The model and texture data are meant for 480p but look just lovely at 1080p.

WTF? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30333254)

Hooray for piracy! What a ri-goddamn-diculous story.

Re:WTF? (3, Insightful)

eqisow (877574) | more than 4 years ago | (#30333320)

I don't quite understand. I mean, sure, you *can* play pirated games on it, but you can play them on a real Wii as well.

Re:WTF? (1)

Jartan (219704) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334448)

More to the point you can also play non-pirated games on it. Not all of us want to buy a Wii for the couple games on it that are actually worthwhile. If the emulator can do a decent 720p on 3d games I'll be buying a couple Wii RPG's.

Re:WTF? (1)

Yosho (135835) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335876)

Not all of us want to buy a Wii for the couple games on it that are actually worthwhile.

It's ok, you don't have to diss the Wii to be cool any more. Or do you not even know what games are available [gamerankings.com] ? Every single one of the games in that top 10 list is fantastic and worth owning. To be fair, if you have Metroid Prime Trilogy then you don't need MP3, but there are more games than just those [gamerankings.com] that are good, and many of them aren't available on any other platform. And if good games aren't enough, you should also buy the Wii for its homebrew scene [wiibrew.org] , which is much better than what's available for the PS3 and 360. Playing the original Quake with the wiimote is awesome.

Demonstrates jack! (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30333274)

I have an issue with the last sentence. A mostly 2d game, that requires very few resources demonstrates the emulators prowess?

Re:Demonstrates jack! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30333348)

Hate to reply to my own post, but come on flamebait? http://www.dolphin-emu.com/list.php?systemtype=Wii&listcount=-1 is Dolphins compatibility list. Probably should be in the summary, no?

Re:Demonstrates jack! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30334582)

I love sites that use their own color/icon scheme to indicate things, but then don't give you a a legend to let you know what those colors/icons mean. "Oh, half yellow, half blue circle. Of course!"

Re:Demonstrates jack! (1)

Dekker3D (989692) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334834)

i know it's not user-friendly, but you can look at the filenames of the icons to find out what they mean. just so you know :) [/captainobvious]

Re:Demonstrates jack! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30338140)

The game is 3d, it's just camera locked into 2d.

Re:Demonstrates jack! (1)

djnforce9 (1481137) | more than 4 years ago | (#30365306)

As said in some posts above, the game is actually rendered in 3D but at a fixed angle to make it appear to be a 2D platformer. Therefore, it does show off the emulator prowess very much although not the best example. You should see Wind Waker when it's upscaled and that's just a gamecube game:

http://www.dolphin-emu.com/images/photoalbum/album_1/win.jpg [dolphin-emu.com]
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7384/windwaker1280x9608xqcsawx8.jpg [imageshack.us]

Personally I think the similarities between the Gamecube and Wii is what made it so easy to emulate compared to other systems where it was a completely different architecture than the previous generation. This is clearly why the gamecube and Wii emulation are being developed alongside eachother and compatibility appears to be similar for both systems.

e4;. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30333410)

Dolphin has come a long way. (5, Interesting)

qazadex (1378043) | more than 4 years ago | (#30333542)

About a year or two ago, before Dolphin was open sourced, it was a buggy, slow emulator that couldn't run games very well. After it was open sourced, improvements were made extremely rapidly, and even though the rate of increase has designed slightly recently, it's still progressing at a very fast rate. I've been following the project since it was open sourced, and I have to say props to the Dolphin team

Re:Dolphin has come a long way. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30335186)

I'm always baffled by people who refuse to open-source their code, even when they clearly never intend to make any money on it. See the douchebaggy statements made by the author of Regex Coach, for example. Proprietary "freeware" is just not how things work these days...

Re:Dolphin has come a long way. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30335988)

I'm always baffled by unskilled people who whine about others not releasing their work as open source.

Stop trying to steal other people's code and go write your own.

Re:Dolphin has come a long way. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30343552)

Does the name Linux ring any bells? DO you realize what website you are reading??

Re:Dolphin has come a long way. (1)

It's its (1599205) | more than 4 years ago | (#30337876)

and even though the rate of increase has designed slightly recently

Proof of intelligent emulation!!

Link to Dolphin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30333578)

Since the OP apparently didn't think a link to Dolphin's site would be nice, here it is: http://www.dolphin-emu.com/news.php

not news (1)

mehemiah (971799) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334578)

however interesting this is, there was another slashdot story of a video of SSBB played in 1080p. That was news. (this story is more salt in a cut that is the powerPC let go. do you know how much faster this would go if it was virtualized instead of emulated! the wii has a PPC in it

Re:not news (1)

nxtw (866177) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335078)

One thing I've wondered: could the Rosetta PowerPC translator in OS X Intel be used as the virtual CPU to emulate systems with PowerPC, assuming it's able to provide better performance than what's already out there?

Missing question (1)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334696)

Does it runs in linux? yes, it does [google.com]

Why should I use this and not by a Wii instead? (3, Insightful)

master_p (608214) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334730)

The Nintendo console is quite cheap anyway.

Re:Why should I use this and not by a Wii instead? (1)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 4 years ago | (#30334800)

Because it does 1080p and the wii doesn't?

Re:Why should I use this and not by a Wii instead? (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335288)

This gives you the same advantages as pretty much any other emulator: higher resolution + upscaling, use of more input devices, the ability to save at any point, and having your games on a hard disk instead of needing to go through an entire shelf of physical media boxes to find what you're looking for. Oh and using it as a development environment for homebrew, I guess.

Of course most people are dicks and just use it for the free warez.

Why do I need Wii homebrew and not PC homebrew? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335868)

Oh and using it as a development environment for homebrew, I guess.

GBA and DS homebrew were welcome because PDAs sucked for gaming at the time. (Apple has since introduced a competent gaming PDA with semi-open development following Microsoft's XNA model.) But the Wii isn't a handheld. So what's the advantage of Wii homebrew over simply developing for PC? For the price of a Wii, I could buy a Wii-sized Acer Aspire Revo and connect it to the same LCD TV, and I'd get a preinstalled copy of Windows without any sort of lockout hassles. I see no reason why indie games can't be designed for such nettops.

Re:Why should I use this and not by a Wii instead? (1)

FiloEleven (602040) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335954)

Watch the video. Everyone knows that Mario games move too fast to be fun. Here you can relish every glorious, floaty leap as Mario carves a slow, graceful arc through the air. Those pesky Goombas are easier to visually track now that they're moving at about 3 pixels per hour--just remember that Mario is slower too!

Maybe this emulator will be worth looking at in the future, but the video I saw showed a game that is quick and snappy on the Wii running slow and with buggy sound. But it's 1080p! Yawn.

Re:Why should I use this and not by a Wii instead? (1)

ServerIrv (840609) | more than 4 years ago | (#30337974)

Unfortunately you posted to undo bad moderation with bad content. The video is of a game playing quick and snappy (60 fps), but according to TFA there was a video creation problem. *speculation* One possible reason could be due to youtube only allowing 30fps. If the content is created at 60fps and it is displayed at 30fps, it would be twice as slow. *end speculation*

Re:Why should I use this and not by a Wii instead? (1)

FiloEleven (602040) | more than 4 years ago | (#30343712)

I don't buy it. Compare that video with this one [youtube.com] . If the game was playing at full speed on the emulator and it is only the video that is slow, then why does the background music play at the same speed in both videos? The only way for that to happen is if the game is running slow.

Re:Why should I use this and not by a Wii instead? (1)

djnforce9 (1481137) | more than 4 years ago | (#30365438)

@FiloEleven: Whoever made this video was probably using the OpenGL plugin in Dolphin which is more "technically" complete but extremely slow compared to the Direct3D9 one. Use that and the game runs at full speed. The only problem is that the blue coins that appear when you hit a P-switch are invisible. Fixing that (which can be done in the settings) will slow the game down even more so it's hardly worth it (does not matter though since this game feeds you enough 1-ups already and thus those extra coins aren't that essential and you can still kind of guess where they appear).

This game is also awesome when played on an Xbox 360 controller. I love how you can set up the analog triggers to control those platforms that can be tilted left and right (or the cannons). Also, that whole "shaking" nonsense to spin is simplified to a single button. In a way the controls are better emulated than the real hardware for this particular game and in fact make it feel like I am using SNES style controls.

Re:Why should I use this and not by a Wii instead? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30336988)

Free emulators are made because certain types of people love to make them.

Re:Why should I use this and not by a Wii instead? (1)

Eil (82413) | more than 4 years ago | (#30341660)

You obviously wouldn't.

However, there are people out there who make it their goal to understand the inner workings of all sorts of interesting technology, including mainstream video game consoles. The best way to understand a system is to re-implement it, even if only in software. For example, there's really no good reason one would one to implement an NES on a FPGA [bradley.edu] , but someone has done it anyhow. It's simply the hacker mentality at work.

Actually you can do that with the N64 games also (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 4 years ago | (#30335854)

I recently fired up super Mario 64 on the PC in an emulator on 1920x1200 which is higher than full hd, and the game looked gorgeous, it simply looked amazing like a new version. Why Nintendo does not even use upscaling on the Wii in any of the emulated games is beyound me.
Especially the N64 games with their blurry textures scale up really well given the fact that they rely more on shading than textures.
Now back to the Wii, Nintendos emulators on the wii are desastrous, they try to emulate the original modes as correct as possible which means they shoot out many owners of LCDs trying to play the older games via component cables. Now even worse instead of just installing an emu, every game has the emu integrated. While they patched a handful of games so that it runs in a different mode, they did not for most other games. Now if your wii is hacked and you play the roms on emulators, not only the games look better thanks to scaling, but also all of them run as expected.

This is so typical Nintendo, they simply do not recognize the potential of every technology they have in their hands until 5 years after it is too late.

Re:Actually you can do that with the N64 games als (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#30336142)

Why Nintendo does not even use upscaling on the Wii in any of the emulated games is beyound me.

Actually they do on the N64 games.

Need to compile latest build. (1)

Rowan_u (859287) | more than 4 years ago | (#30336820)

Someone might want to mention that New Super Mario Bros. doesn't work with the precompiled Dolphin, you've gotta compile the latest build for this game to make it past the title screen. So there, I mentioned it.
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?