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Mega Man 10 Confirmed For WiiWare

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the with-new-bosses-chair-man-and-bread-man dept.

Nintendo 104

The upcoming issue of Nintendo Power revealed that Capcom is working on Mega Man 10 for a release via WiiWare sometime in the future. "Like Mega Man 9 (released for WiiWare in 2008), Mega Man 10 remains true to the series's roots with 8-bit-style graphics and sound, and tried-and-true Mega Man gameplay." According to the early look at Nintendo Power's article, the game may include an easier difficulty mode, likely inspired by complaints that the previous game was too hard. It also previews one of the new bosses, who is apparently called "Sheep Man." Make of that what you wool.

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104 comments

uurrgghh (4, Funny)

MagicM (85041) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385344)

Make of that what you wool.

First groan!

Re:uurrgghh (3, Funny)

Cryacin (657549) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385362)

That was baaaaad.

Keep it. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385572)

The "classic" Mega Man series jumped the shark in the NES era, and Mega Man 9 wasn't even as good as the NES series at it's absolute worst. If you're going to make a retro-style game in this day and age, you should at least try to match the source material in terms of quality. If 9 was released on the NES alongside the other games, it would be long forgotten by now. I'm not expecting no. 10 to be much better.

Re:Keep it. (1)

Verdatum (1257828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386950)

Oh Reginald! .....I disagree!

Re:Keep it. (1)

bobbomo (877614) | more than 4 years ago | (#30389104)

me too! how do you figure it was so bad?

only thing i would have liked would be the slide... and the ability to scroll text faster in the store.

Re:Keep it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30396664)

The stages were boring and overly repetitive, making use of the same gimmicks over and over again, and the graphics weren't as "retro" as they were lazy.

Re:Keep it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30387026)

The "classic" Mega Man series jumped the shark in the NES era, and Mega Man 9 wasn't even as good as the NES series at it's absolute worst. If you're going to make a retro-style game in this day and age, you should at least try to match the source material in terms of quality. If 9 was released on the NES alongside the other games, it would be long forgotten by now. I'm not expecting no. 10 to be much better.

Personally I hate the original Mega Man games.

Lemme know when they port MM X to WiiWare, then we'll talk.

The older games have no OPTIONS (and I don't mean weapons, because most of X's weapons were gimmicky), I mean you suffer in CONTROL on the older games, you can't do a lot of the new things that they introduced with the newer games (wall jumping, sprint jumping, etc).

Re:Keep it. (1)

DrGamez (1134281) | more than 4 years ago | (#30393630)

Many of those people who don't like the new MegaMan games don't like them on the grounds they've added too many options and controls. The new MegaMan games are about action and shooting, the older ones were more about jumping and knowing what was coming next.

Re:Keep it. (1)

tisch (1371229) | more than 4 years ago | (#30394662)

The "classic" Mega Man series jumped the shark in the NES era, and Mega Man 9 wasn't even as good as the NES series at it's absolute worst. If you're going to make a retro-style game in this day and age, you should at least try to match the source material in terms of quality. If 9 was released on the NES alongside the other games, it would be long forgotten by now. I'm not expecting no. 10 to be much better.

:'( boohoo.

Re:uurrgghh (2, Interesting)

angryphase (766302) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386882)

Another editor a sheep at the wheel, ewe would think baaad puns like this woolen be rammed into a summary.

Time to get the flock out of here.

Sheepskin man. (1, Funny)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385360)

"No Megaman, use the sheep skin, we don't want any little ones yet.." pleaded Zero as her armor heaved up and down with excitement.

Didn't they already (4, Funny)

Dr. Hellno (1159307) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385366)

make megaman 10 [penny-arcade.com]?

WTF (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385788)

That comic doesn't make sense. It *is* called X. It came out around the time 6 did on the NES. It has its own # series up to X8 or whatever.

So this guy thought the main character of that series was named "Ten"? Fucking retard.

Re:WTF (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385932)

You're correct, though Tycho is hardly a "fucking retard."

Re:Didn't they already (3, Informative)

Jojoba86 (1496883) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386512)

Explanation [penny-arcade.com] given in a series of posts that go with the comic.

Re:Didn't they already (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30387640)

Wow, I gave them the benefit of a doubt and assumed that it was an OS X joke. They really are that stupid, aren't they?

Do not want (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385390)

Have you played any of the recent Mega Man games on new consoles? They are terrible. I saw my roommates playing, and I wondered why they sucked so much - I always found the games easy. So I played half a level, and knew immediately what was wrong. There's a huge ~200ms delay in the controls. If you jump to dodge an enemy shot, you have to do it 200ms earlier than on an NES.

The games are unplayable. Don't buy them.

Re:Do not want (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385420)

Maybe I'm just a complete dolt and reading your comment incorrectly, but do you mean 200 milliseconds? As in, 1/5th of a second? This is something you can actually discern with such accuracy?

Re:Do not want (2, Informative)

Mprx (82435) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385438)

Wouldn't surprise me at all if it's true. Most modern console games have unacceptably high latency:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-lag-factor-article [eurogamer.net]

Re:Do not want (1)

megamerican (1073936) | more than 4 years ago | (#30388526)

I read that link as "fag factor" rather than "lag factor."

It must be time to put down Modern Warfare 2 for a few weeks.

From personal experience I have noticed a slight lag in the controls of Nintendo's Wii compared to the PS2. It really became noticeable when playing Guitar Hero on a friend's Wii. It took about a half hour to correctly compensate for the slight lag.

Re:Do not want (3, Insightful)

Zardus (464755) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386366)

Something as huge as 200ms is insanely easy to discern with accuracy. You should see competitive Smash Bros Brawl players -- they suffer with HDTVs that introduce any lag at all, even as much as 2 frames (60ms or so).

I host Smash Bros tournaments here in Tempe, AZ, and I've had to amass a collection of SDTVs because of all the complaints, and because I started noticing the lag myself. Luckily SDTVs are super cheap (or free in a lot of cases) now.

Re:Do not want (1)

MaWeiTao (908546) | more than 4 years ago | (#30388116)

Why not get a Plasma tv? LCDs and SDTVs aren't your only option.

Re:Do not want (1)

Zardus (464755) | more than 4 years ago | (#30389416)

Plasmas will lag as well, dude. Anything that upscales the image and does any sort of post-processing nowadays is going to lag; the TV industry just has no interest for some strange reason in making it lag less, outside of only-partially-effective "game mode"s on some TVs...

Re:Do not want (1)

jlf278 (1022347) | more than 4 years ago | (#30392118)

I have to say some tv's have excellent game modes that are MOSTLY effective, not partially effective. Without game mode by samsung b8500 shows roughly 200ms of lag, which makes games like rock band, ddr, smash bros., halo 3, etc. almost unplayable. With game mode on, you lose very little picture quality with 720p or higher with motion processing suffering a little. Measuring lag with rock band, game mode yields lag under 45ms regardless of connection type and which (not grayed out) settings you turn on. With component cables direct from xbox 360 to tv and all processing off, lag was nearly eliminated. So, at least some companies are addressing input lag seriously. My receiver also has a game mode, which seems to pass through video without lag.

Re:Do not want (1)

Zardus (464755) | more than 4 years ago | (#30393604)

That's pretty cool. Did you get those 45ms with a Wii or with a 360? My Wii had higher lag than my 360 because the Wii's signal had to be upscaled before displaying, whereas the 360 outputted in 1080p already.

I guess it's also possible that I just noticed it more on the Wii. I didn't have anything as fast-paced as Smash on the 360. I didn't have rock band on the Wii to test it out, so it's pretty much anecdotal evidence for me.

Re:Do not want (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 4 years ago | (#30389932)

Competetive Super Smash Bros. players are the lowest of the low, dude.

I have NEVER met one that was good at the game.
All they do is play final destination (a plain, flat stage) with no items.

It's like most competitions that require no actual skill - the people who can play competently are the same people who can play competitively. You end up with a large number of densely grouped (in terms of "skill") players near the top. So what do they do? They pare the game away, add in stupid rules, and become so fucking myopic that the thing they're competing at is completely lost and replaced by a memorization task.

Examples:

Cup stacking
Rubik's Cube Solving
Super Smash Bros.
Perfect circle drawing
Memorizing Pi to X digits

The bottom line is that SSB is a great game and should be played with all stages and all items on. The "competitive" players are all assholes, and will blame "lag" for their failing. Hell - many of them will refuse to use wireless controllers because they think they introduce lag, just like many people refuse to wtfpwn at their derivative FPS of choice over a wireless connection. An HDTV with shitty slow processing that you can't turn off can introduce noticeable lag, but to go out and get SDTVs instead of a decent HDTV just shows how stubborn and ignorant the "pros" are.

Re:Do not want (3, Interesting)

Zardus (464755) | more than 4 years ago | (#30391454)

I hear sentiments like this quite a lot, but the fact is that you're wrong.

Smash Bros is a game that exhibits a very strong "best-in-my-school" syndrome. That is, lots of people you meet are either the best in their school, the best in their group of friends, best in their town, etc. All those people might claim to be 'competitive' in the game, and they generally all suck pretty bad.

The real skill comes from the top players of the greater community, the ones that aren't just the best in their school or something retarded like that, but are actually good. We hold a few tournaments every month, for money and prestige, and I can guarantee that memorization alone isn't going to get you anywhere. You need to know the game and the moves and the meta-game of the characters involved, sure, but the match comes down to being able to read your opponent and devise successful strategies against them. The memorization level is what I call the "sub-competitive" level. Autopilot-based players might win the first match (if that) from the momentum of a novel and well-memorized strategy, but after that, against a good player, they're done. They'll never win again.

As for the stupid rules, there are three real rules that influence actually playing the game: banned stages, banned infinites, and no items.

Banned stages are something that's very necessary. For example, no matter how good you are, with most characters if Dedede grabs you on Shadow Moses Island or Bridge of Eldin, that's a stock. For that reason, those stages are banned. I play Bridge of Eldin a lot with my friends, sure, cause it's a fun stage, but if one of them went Dedede all the time and chain grabbed me off the edge over and over, I would certainly consider banning it. With money and status on the line, the competitive community has decided to ban that stage in standard tournaments. Other stages are banned for other reasons -- WarioWare has no place in a Smash match. People want to actually play, not jump around popping party hats or stand around doing nothing.

Even then, it's far from only Final Destination. Off the top of my head, here are the stages that generally be played in tournaments: FD, Battlefield, Smashville, Brinstar, Green Greens (in doubles), Pokemon Stadium, Rainbow Cruise, Pictochat, Yoshi's Island, Lylat Cruise, Castle Siege, Halberd, Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, and Isle Delphino. That's 16 stages, a far cry from just FD. The people that play FD-only are generally the best-in-my-school smashers, and they'd get destroyed, and horribly so, in actual competitive play. Even those stages offer certain characters great advantages. You don't want to fight Falco on Jungle Japes, for example; that's his house and he doesn't want you in there.

There are a (very) few banned infinites, as well. Most stalling tactics, like Sonic hiding under FD or Metaknight's infinite cape glitch is out, and with good reason. Likewise, the crazy Ice Climbers grab-fly-kill off the top glitch is either going to be or already is banned. Banning those moves is an obvious decision and I'm not sure what reasonable arguments you could make against it...

The no items rule is a bit more controversial. The vast majority of competitive players will agree that they add an unwanted randomness variable, but I personally like playing with items. However, certain new items like the Final Smash ball and some of the trophies are ridiculous. The final smash ball stops play every freaking minute and the players spend like 20 second chasing the stupid thing. It's retarded. Some of the trophies are just too powerful. A lot of the time when I play with my friends, we'll turn just those two off. They also hate food and hearts and tomatoes for some reason, though I like those.

However, you could argue that items give faster characters an advantage because those characters can get to the items faster, for example. You could argue that bombs spawning on top of you (which happens surprisingly often) is too random and not skill-determined, and for those reasons items are turned off in play. In a recent tournament match, though, a Peach pulled a sword out of her skirt (random chance instead of a turnip) and won the round, heavily influencing the results of the tournament and actually moving the player up in the competitive rankings in Arizona. Things like that aren't forbidden.

All the other tournament rules have to do with the protocol for choosing where to play, who to play as, etc. They don't influence actual gameplay once the start button is pressed.

As for the HDTV lag, it cripples people's play. Metaknight's downsmash comes out in like five frames (~160ms). To have even a minute chance of power-shielding it, you need to do so immediately. If there's even a two-frame (60ms) lag before you see the start of the move, plus whatever response delay you suffer actually pressing the key, it's basically impossible. Even the best HDTVs suffer at least a 60ms lag, and they're expensive. If you could tell me where I can go and get 10 of them for a tournament without going bankrupt and to *still* get a subpar solution, please say so. As for Wavebirds, I haven't heard much complaining about it lately. I do think they have trouble hitting many buttons in rapid succession, and I don't use them for Smash, but I've seen people bring them to tournaments sometimes.

Anyways, we get the FD-only people in decent numbers in our events. Once they get over the fact that they're losing constantly, and deprogram themselves from autopilot-based gameplay, they can get fairly good. Less can be done to change the minds of "Smash should be a happy-feely game" people such as you appear to be. I will say that playing a game with something on the line, even when it's just pride, makes it a lot funner for a lot of people. Playing competitively, and I mean truly competitively, not best-in-my-school style is the difference between tossing a ball around and playing an actual game.

Re:Do not want (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 4 years ago | (#30395470)

A lot of typing for a lot of nothing.

Playing SSB on 1 stage with no items is boring and not a measure of skill.
Any decent tv will have a total lag FAR less than 60 ms when you turn off the crap.

Both of my TVs have no noticeable lag.
1 was $400 3 years ago, 1 was $700 a year ago.

TV manufacturers offered "game" options and improved the processing speed considerably over the lat 6 years. The driving force was consumer complaints over audio/video sync issues.

Not even the most angsty of nerds could pass a simple ABX test.

Make a simple game that flashes a box in the top, left, bottom, or right side of the screen, have the tester press up down left or right on the keyboard. Record the average reaction speed over a two-minute run.

Repeat on a different display.

Repeat again on one of the two displays to control for fatigue/practice.

The difference in average response time will be the difference in delay between the two displays.

The ratio of that difference to the average response delay on the quicker display is how much the display latency matters.

In the end you'll find out that the delay introduced by the display is nothing compared to the delay introduced by being a meat being, and even more pointless when counted in raw frames (it will be a fraction of a single frame).

Re:Do not want (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30398548)

A few things:

1. I did do a decent bit of typing and I wish you'd at least bothered to read my post, as I gave you that courtesy. Only idiots play on one stage, as I mentioned. In fact, in a standard tournament set, you'll play your three matches on at least two stages out of the many I listed as legal stages.

1a. Having items does not improve how much an indicator of skill a game is. It might make it funner for you, but it certainly makes it a worse indicator of skill. This is pretty much generally accepted by any reasonable Smash player regardless of whether they like items or not. You are literally the first person to ever argue this point with me since like Smash 64. If you like items, play with them. Tournaments have them off, and for pretty decent reasons.

2. HDTVs. Introduce. Video. Lag. More than "a fraction of a single frame".

Read that statement again, please.

Now read it one more time. It's a fact. Now go do some research online or elsewhere on the thread. HDTVs lag. My $1200 TV from two years back lagged, even in Game mode. Not too bad, but noticeably. Personally, I haven't yet played on an HDTV where I wasn't able to notice any lag at all in Smash. There have been plenty that don't bother me all that much, but I'm not quite at the level in Smash where a frame or two here and there makes that much of a difference. There are people that are. The delay introduced by the display will and does hamper their gameplay pretty radically.

You might not be able to notice the lag. I couldn't either until I played a lot on an SDTV at various Smashfests and then played on my HDTV. That doesn't mean the lag isn't there. Play enough, get good enough, and you'll notice it.

Re:Do not want (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30398806)

Cry more.

Re:Do not want (2, Interesting)

grumbel (592662) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385432)

Sounds like a problem with the TV settings, not with the game. Have a look through the TVs menu for a "game mode" or something similar to get rid of the lag.

Re:Do not want (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385734)

I don't know if it is that, or the fact that just about every bit of code is written to be "multiplatform" so the controls are never optimized for the platform and just suck. I have been noticing lately on my PC shooters that are supposed to be "multiplatform" that the controls are really laggy, and that no matter how high your system is over the specs it often feels like your character is moving through molasses, just horribly bad lag. It really kills the mood when you die not because you missed the bad guy, but because by the time your slow ass character turned it was too late. Just lame.

And I know it isn't the monitor because I still have my favorite old 19in CRT. So the only thing I can figure is all this focus on multiplatform means they are writing for portability over playability. Maybe someone here who works in the industry can confirm?

Re:Do not want (1)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385860)

No, input lag that bad would have to be done intentionally, 200ms is a good 6 frames even at the console standard of 30fps. Player input would have to be intentionally delayed to get anything over 1 frame (30ms).

Re:Do not want (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 4 years ago | (#30390280)

Why would anyone WANT to purposely ruin their game like that? It makes no sense unless you are talking about a disgruntled employee situation or they are trying to make up for shitty framerates that consoles have on the PC. Let me give an example: I picked up an el cheapo "multiplatform" game called "ShellShock: Blood Trails" for the PC. I figure it was cheese, but at $10 I should be able to get that out of it just from having some new targets to shoot, right?

WRONG. From the very beginning of the game my guy (which is supposed to be a young healthy soldier) moves like he is a 400 pound + fat guy at the edge of a heart attack. The mouse is especially bad, where you feel like you have to "rev" your mouse like the old days of shitty ball mice, even though I have a nice 800 DPI Logitech. By the third level it is pretty much unplayable as during the VC attacks any VC that comes in from the side or rear can just sit there and beat the living shit out of you because you will be long dead before you can "rev" your mouse enough to turn around and shoot the bastard.

Yet none of the reviews I found later say anything at all about having such a major problem in the game, which leads me to believe that whatever system they were playing on (I believe most reviews were for x360) was the "real" system it was designed for and nobody bothered to optimize the code for any other system. So on something that doesn't lag like a PC the game sticks out like a sore thumb because it was designed for a laggy machine. I wouldn't be surprised if the game lagged enough on the 360 to make it actually playable, as opposed to lag free AI and screwed player on PC.

This to me is what is screwing us PC gamers more than anything, this "multiplatform" bullshit, because except for a few major players like Valve it seems like most of the games are designed for a laggy PS3 or x360, but then if you are right and it is coded that way (probably to make up for shitty 30FPS and flat screen cheapo TVs) then they aren't even bothering to turn off the "console drag" before shipping it as "multiplatform". Of course this behavior will make the decline of PC games a self fulfilling prophecy as PC gamers don't want unplayable games, and frankly nearly every "multiplatform" game I have dealt with in the past two years is just that, unplayable.

Re:Do not want (1)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 4 years ago | (#30390986)

PC games normally have a "mouse sensitivity" setting, which normally defaults to stupidly low (some kind of "we must target new players!" mentality I think). Raise it and the experience will be fine. If they haven't bothered to add that setting, then it is a terrible port.

Re:Do not want (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 4 years ago | (#30394140)

Tried it dude, all it did was change it so it took three revs to turn on to a VC instead of six. You still get your ass handed to you thanks to the VC not having that problem. If you turn it full blast then you just spin in a circle at the slightest touch. I get the feeling that the entire thing is designed for a laggy x360 (there is even bragging on the back box for the 360 controller) and nobody turned off the crap before shipping the code.

Like I said I figured it would be cheese, but at $10 I figured I'd get enough target practice out of it for the game to be worth the low price. After all I got $10 worth of Nazi target practice out of MOH:Airborne, even though EA couldn't write AI that could shoot its way out of a wet paper sack. It seems lately though that anything labeled multiplatform is the kiss of death, with either controls you can't change at all, or more often like this where it is simply unplayable with a standard keyboard and mouse. Who knows it might be playable with an x360 controller, but if I wanted to use a shitty console controller I would have bought a fricking console!!!

Re:Do not want (1)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 4 years ago | (#30394966)

Well in that case, it IS possible that they put mouse input through the same ~25% deadzone code and/or response curve (if they even have one) as an analogue stick, but that would be CRAP.

Re:Do not want (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 4 years ago | (#30397110)

Honestly I think that is what they did, as even zoom aim is completely worthless as you will overshoot if you crank it up, and as I said the defaults have you turning like you are in quicksand.

I personally wonder how much of it is "get it out the door ASAP!" and "build it for the x360, we'll just port it later (when we don't have time for any QA). Because I have found lately a whole bunch of games that WOULD HAVE been mindless fun, like ShellShock, or Turning Point, or Cold Fear, where the controls (or lack thereof) just made them completely pointless on a PC. I mean sure, these games wouldn't have been another Bioshock or F.E.A.R., but they still would have been mindless fun and worth a $20 if they would have just spent a little time making sure the controls worked on PC.

And I know it isn't just the price tag, as I have seen budget games get it right. City Interactive makes games that aren't Bioshock quality but are worth a $20 for some mindless slaughter. Their Code of Honor series is quite fun if you just turn off your brain and rack up the body count, same with their SAS:Secure Tomorrow, or Cauldron with the third SoF. Sure it isn't gonna win any awards or do anything new or original, but for $20 it is a fun way to spend a weekend.

So maybe you are right, and they are just running the PC through the "lag code" instead of turning it off, but it is a real shame. Many of these games could have had a decent life in the budget bins, maybe even gotten a decent modding community going (just look at the awful Delta Force games for an example of a bad game series with good mods) but instead they screwed themselves out of decent profits and positive word of mouth for lack of a little bit of play testing. Because while I would recommend the above cheapos as a fun way to spend an afternoon and worth $20, ShellShock or Turning Point I wouldn't recommend for free. And it is just a shame as the graphics are decent and would have made some good mindless fun.

Re:Do not want (1)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 4 years ago | (#30391568)

To add to my other post:
Slow movement speed is normally a game attempting to be "realistic". When working on Wheelman, we quickly found that people felt that a character running even double realistic speed was slow. You get a similar thing with jump height too, people can't really jump very high, but in games you can often jump over someone else's head.

Large input lag is often attempts to compensate for noisy input, testing for the difference between "press" and "hold", or waiting on an animation before responding to input (e.g. a 300ms "move gun from idle to shooting" anim). If done wrongly the latter delay can be applied even if the player/gun are already in the correct anim pose.

Input lag from multithreading is becoming more common too, worst case would be something like: gameplay / physics / rendering all run in parallel, so input is processed in the gameplay code one frame, acted on in the physics next frame, and rendered the frame after that. At 30fps on a console with a shitty LCD TV latency (e.g. 100ms) you could get to 200ms easily. On a pc however, with 60fps and (typically) a fast response screen, you'd only have 50ms latency. That's not horrific.
The common case these days is to process input before starting the physics update off, so even though gameplay, physics and rendering all run in parallel you see the results of your input after only two frames, or 33ms at 60fps.

Re:Do not want (1)

pnewhook (788591) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401784)

So you are saying the game was laggy on your PC, but it isn't laggy according to the reviews on the PS3 and x360, yet you are saying the PS3 and x360 are laggy? How did you come to that conclusion?

Maybe you just need a faster PC?

Re:Do not want (1)

bobbomo (877614) | more than 4 years ago | (#30389228)

I have not noticed any latency playing Mega Man 9 on Xbox 360 on a standard definition TV.

Re:Do not want (1)

nthitz (840462) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385474)

Surely you are only referring to the bloated crap that is the Mega Man XXX series'. Mega Man 9 for WiiWare was slick, practice makes perfect. Blame it on the lag, blame it on the difficulty, but any honest gamer should be able to beat it.

Re:Do not want (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385556)

Mega Man 9 was bad compared to earlier Mega Man games, way too much spike pit abuse.

Re:Do not want (1)

bonch (38532) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385652)

Oh, man, I have to disagree. Mega Man 9 was probably the best "8-bit" Mega Man game, or at least second beneath Mega Man 2. Great level design and music.

Re:Do not want (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386056)

Seriously??? The music is a total mess and I've even heard a comparison of it that demonstrates that it's mostly a mashup of older Mega Man music. The level design is terrible, it's all designed around spikes and pits and even has enemies that jump out of pits to throw you into them, crap I would expect from IWBTG, not a serious game. It reminds me too much of the level design in Mega Man X8. Enemies are barely present outside of the overly hard miniboss and level boss fights, some stuff is just plain counterintuitive (of all weapons that could have been set to freeze the lava rays why is it the CONCRETE that does it?), the disappearing blocks are just plain annoying this time, etc.

Re:Do not want (1)

Zardus (464755) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386384)

You're just getting old, dude :-)

Re:Do not want (1)

Khyber (864651) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386628)

And he's getting senile "it's all designed around spikes and pits and even has enemies that jump out of pits to throw you into them" because everything he's complaining about is in at least from megaman 1-4, I just checked it.

Re:Do not want (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30397848)

Those games have spikes and pits, but the entire game isn't focused around them.

Re:Do not want (1)

bonch (38532) | more than 4 years ago | (#30391962)

The music is a total mess

What? It's some of the catchiest 8-bit music I've ever heard. Tornado Man's theme is stuck in my head right now. Of course it borrows cues from the previous games; that's intentional.

The difficulty is just right for an 8-bit Mega Man game, and the combinations that seem strange to you, like blocking the beams with concrete blocks, are taken from previous Mega Man games.

I really don't see how you could claim enemies are "barely present." It's flat-out not true.

Re:Do not want (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385584)

Surely you are only referring to the bloated crap that is the Mega Man XXX series'.

Not sure what you mean by the "Mega Man XXX" series, but sans the festering pile of shit that is X7, the Mega Man X series has been pretty consistently great. Then there's the Zero and ZX games, which are more story-driven and tend to play around with different gameplay elements, but the core run/jump/shoot gameplay is as smooth as ever, definitely moreso than in the 8-bit entries.

Re:Do not want (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385824)

Mega Man 9, on a Wii, connected to a CRT, does not have this problem. It may if connected to an LCD or Plasma - the Plasma we have adds something like 150ms of latency all by itself unless you turn off most of it's image processing options.

Re:Do not want (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385898)

You didn't give any kind of information to actually diagnose the problem, but I'm about 95% sure the problem is actually with the a/v setup. If you're using anything that isn't a CRT, then I am 100% sure.

Basically, all new types of TVs have processing lag. After the signal enters the back of the TV, the TV processes the frame before it is shown, whereas a CRT would have drawn the frame basically instantaneously as the signal entered the TV. With some newer TVs, this delays the picture by as much as several frames of animation, which easily adds up to significant fractions of a second. In the context of Mega Man, this means that when you press the button for your expertly-timed jump, you are basing your timing on what happened in the game as much as a third of a second ago.

In most games, it causes problems, but the fact that you never really hear about this could mean two things:
1) most people are completely oblivious because they never considered it or don't play the type or difficulty level of game where that kind of timing matters
2) game developers are building accommodations for this in the game -- bullets take longer to reach you after an enemy pulls the trigger, enemies telegraph their moves, etc.

One reply seemed incredulous that 1/5th of a second could matter, but it definitely does. There are two main genres that cause people to start noticing the processing lag:
1) highly competitive 2D/sprite-based fighting games. The speed of moves in these games is phenomenal, and the best players must see the first frame or two of animation of an opponents' move and then instantly hit the buttons to counter appropriately.
2) music games. If you play a song that's 120 bpm, and you have a quick drumroll or a barrage of guitar strumming, you might need to precisely time out 5 or more button presses in one second -- obviously, even tiny delays can ruin the experience.

(I find it entertaining that I've never heard of a FPS player bringing this issue up, only the above two genres)

Seriously, the problem is your TV. Processing lag is a real problem that most TV manufacturers are effectively ignoring, and the only way to know how bad it is with a TV is to do a special setup that dual outputs a timer to the screen being tested and a screen known to not have processing lag. I am 100% ready to buy a giant HDTV, cash in hand, show me where to sign, but I'm waiting until the situation gets better and playing on an old CRT for now.

Re:Do not want (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386096)

(I find it entertaining that I've never heard of a FPS player bringing this issue up, only the above two genres)

That's because if you play an FPS on a TV you're either using dual analogs or a Wiimote, most likely the former (because the Wii's library of FPS games is fairly sparse) and when your controls are already as precise as maneuvering a crippled cow in a supermarket trolley a bit of delay won't make a difference. With online FPSes you get lag from the connection anyway and already compensate for it.

Re:Do not want (1)

Krakhan (784021) | more than 4 years ago | (#30396890)

Seriously, the problem is your TV. Processing lag is a real problem that most TV manufacturers are effectively ignoring, and the only way to know how bad it is with a TV is to do a special setup that dual outputs a timer to the screen being tested and a screen known to not have processing lag.

I believe the the newer Guitar Hero and Rockband games also have a calibration test that you can use as well to determine what the post-processing lag on your tv is like to see if it's acceptable or not.

Re:Do not want (1)

Khyber (864651) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386616)

Wrong.

Megaman, in the NES versions, has ALWAYS had a slight (~150-200ms) lag in movement. When you were younger you didn't know about lag, or likely care. You just knew your timing was off and unconsciously you adapted. Megaman's first animation frame is picking up his leg, no movement occurs until the second frame of animation, approximately 150-200 ms later.

You made me break out my old ATi TV Wonder USB just to hook up the NES and re-test that. I own MM 1-4 and they all exhibit this.

Are you serious? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385406)

Nintendo Power is still around???

XBLA? (1)

Pr0xY (526811) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385618)

Any word on it being available on the other platforms MM9 was available for? I love MM9, but I'm not exactly gonna go and buy a Wii just to play MM10

Re:XBLA? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385636)

Any word on it being available on the other platforms MM9 was available for? I love MM9, but I'm not exactly gonna go and buy a Wii just to play MM10

Then don't. You'd be depriving yourself of a lot of great Wii games if you only played Mega Man 10.

Re:XBLA? (1)

MaWeiTao (908546) | more than 4 years ago | (#30388198)

Megaman 9 is available for all 3 consoles, Xbox, PS3 and Wii. However, the difficulty in the demo turned me off from buying the game. I like a challenging game but I just don't have the patience for the sluggish awkwardness of the original games. Why they didn't modernize the game in the style of Mega Man ZX, which is a far superior game, is beyond me. The basic gameplay is the very similar, but the controls are far more fluid. It's one thing to keep losing because of a particularly challenging section and another thing altogether to keep losing because of crappy controls.

I've always liked the visual style of the original games, but I think it's been overdone. Why not use the original art for inspiration but modernize things? Again, I refer to Mega Man ZX as an approach I would have followed.

Re:XBLA? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30397450)

Mega Man ZX is, in Mega Man franchise parlance, a self-contained spinoff series. It's based on the gameplay of Mega Man Zero and Mega Man X before it, but is in no way directly related to what they're doing with Mega Man 10, which is part of the original series.

Sites like www.themmnetwork.com have the information you might need to discern why Mega Man 10 plays like the NES games while Mega Man ZX plays like Mega Man Zero fused with Metroid/Castlevania.

outdated (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385694)

It is outdated. They need 'Tera Man.'

Re:outdated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385720)

Ha ha ha.

Get the fuck out.

Mega Man 010? (1)

Zero_Independent (664974) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385790)

Do we really need a rehash every year like the sports titles? In all seriousness, I'm looking forward to Mega Man 10. Mega Man 9 was really cool. Is there a mod where I can graft a Nintendo brand directional pad onto my Xbox 360 controller? Nintendo really needs to license out the patent, because every other d-pad is garbage.

Re:Mega Man 010? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30393090)

Microsoft has made good directional D-Pads before (see Sidewinder 1.0). I don't know why they use the retarded one in the 360 though.

Why not upgrade the graphics? (2, Insightful)

NoPantsJim (1149003) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385868)

I am 100% all for keeping the gameplay exactly as it had been before, but a graphics upgrade would be a welcome change.

My perfect example was the original Contra [youtube.com] and Super C(ontra) [youtube.com] for the NES. I could play those games for hours, even as recently as a few years ago. When they were released for the Xbox 360 I bought them instantly but was severely disappointed. I have a 1080p screen, Contra is a side scroller, why not just make the damn field of vision wider? Or maybe some higher resolution graphics? Don't mess with the controls, just spiff up the looks. Both games were immensely fun to play.

Yeah, it's great to have access to these older classics again, but not doing anything to polish them up a bit smacks of lazyness.

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385948)

You should try Contra 4 for the DS or Contra ReBirth on Wiiware. It's like the 16-bit era never ended.

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (2, Interesting)

NoPantsJim (1149003) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386030)

Wow, Contra ReBirth [youtube.com] Looks like exactly what I'd like, however I've always had a major gripe against that damn homing missile power-up. It's a little too easy to be able to run and jump in any direction you choose while holding down the fire button. Give me my spread gun (or shotgun, whatever the "S" means) and I'm a happy guy.

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (1)

Khyber (864651) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386644)

The homing missile did far less damage than the concussion missile - that's why it was rapid fire - it's about as powerful as the standard machinegun, just homing and with a different sprite.

At least, that's what I understood from a few hacked ROMs I'd played, where they made the homing missile act like a missile, and wipe out half the screen.

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (1)

BenoitRen (998927) | more than 4 years ago | (#30385980)

The NES aesthetic is a part of the original Mega Man series' identity. Up to and including Mega Man 6, they were NES games.

The graphics being so basic also contributes to the fine-grained gameplay. Look at Mega Man 8 why a graphics upgrade that you're proposing breaks the gameplay. Now, maybe you're arguing for the same shapes, but with more detail. But 8-bit has its charm, and like I said, is part of the series' identity.

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30385990)

"Spiffing up" the looks for a Mega Man game is harder than it looks. Nobody liked what they did with the art style in Mega Man 8. Personally I'm glad for the return to the old style.

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (2, Insightful)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386122)

Contra constantly spawns enemies at the edge of the screen, widening the screen would have a severe gameplay impact (because you'd get much more time to shoot them). Contra Rebirth which was designed for a widescreen capable system just uses black bars.

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (1)

NoPantsJim (1149003) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386166)

Good point. Maybe just make enemies immune up until an invisible threshold which makes them vulnerable when they cross?

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30386652)

...would that really be less awkward than non-widescreen aspect ratio?

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (1)

NoPantsJim (1149003) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386666)

I dunno, it would probably be fine by me. I go insane watching old episodes of shows like Frasier and Seinfeld on a widescreen tv. Having the black bars on the sides drives me up the wall.

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (1)

LocalH (28506) | more than 4 years ago | (#30390716)

Then don't watch 4:3 material. It always irks me when people watch 4:3 material stretched to 16:9, or when they prefer pan and scan to original aspect ratio, just because "it doesn't fill up the screen".

You're the type of person that actually made use of the widescreen function on the GBA, which for most sensible people was useless (the only time I ever used it was when I was bored waiting on the game I was playing to finish a cutscene, and then only to switch back and forth as opposed to twiddling my thumbs).

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (1)

Sabz5150 (1230938) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386824)

Because some of us who have been playing this series for twenty-plus years are used to the game as it sits damn near down to pixel count and just how many toes Megaman needs to keep on a ledge to not fall off.

Re:Why not upgrade the graphics? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30392734)

The NES hardware was designed with scrollers in mind.

There is a section of memory set aside called "name tables"; by default it is about the size of two full screens. (Other carts expanded this to four full screens, but that detail isn't terribly important).

In gameplay, you see one buffer, and then build into the next buffer before you 'scroll' the visible screen over into it. In side-scrollers like Mega Man and Contra, the scrolling was smooth, it happened one graphical block at a time; so the level appears to be continuous. In Legend of Zelda, when Link hit the edge of the screen he was on, the next screen would be built up in the second buffer, and all the scrolling happened at once. (Notice the ever-so-slight pause when moving between screens? That's the buffer being built up. This technique is also used for his item screen.)

Upshot of all this? The code in the game is designed with this specific hardware configuration in mind. What looks to you like "polishing them up" is actually more like "rewrite this entire game for a new set of hardware". Trust me, I'd like nothing more than to see every classic revamped, but this is far from a trivial exercise. :-(

Progressive scan? (1)

BenoitRen (998927) | more than 4 years ago | (#30386012)

Will Mega Man 10 support progressive scan? Months ago I bought a Wii VGA cable, which allowed me to use the Wii with one of the monitors I keep in my room (so I wouldn't hog the family TV). I was very disappointed that I couldn't play Mega Man 9 this way because apparently Capcom was lazy enough to not include progressive scan support.

This is quite baffling when you consider that:

  • Mega Man 9 on other platforms does have progressive scan support
  • All other WiiWare games do
  • Almost all regular Wii games have it as well.

Damn you, Capcom!

Easy mode? Boo. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30386788)

Easier!? Pfft. One thing that made MM9 go back to its NES roots was that one very likely couldn't play through it on the first sitting. The last thing I want is to blaze through a Mega Man game. I, for one, certainly don't play MM for the fascinating, intricate storyline.

They need to get rid of the INSTANT death Spikesor (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 4 years ago | (#30387366)

They need to get rid of the INSTANT death Spikes or make them take off some of your energy.

Re:They need to get rid of the INSTANT death Spike (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30387960)

The spikes themselves aren't that bad, its the terrible habit of putting them where you can't see them so you you have to make a leap of faith and inevitably land on them. That kind of trial and error gameplay is pretty bad and was far to prevalent in the DS Megaman games. MM9 wasn't so bad due to its 1 screen high playing field.

Re:They need to get rid of the INSTANT death Spike (1)

bobbomo (877614) | more than 4 years ago | (#30389662)

all you need to do is buy a spike safety item from the in-game store.

Re:They need to get rid of the INSTANT death Spike (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 4 years ago | (#30396274)

Best stick with modern kiddy games that hold you hand and let your health magically reappear if you sit in a corner somewhere.

The Reason to own a Wii (2, Interesting)

foo fighter (151863) | more than 4 years ago | (#30388178)

WiiWare and the Virtual Console are reason enough to own a Wii.

My "hardcore" gamer friends have all owned and then sold a Wii. They can't believe I'm still spending almost all of my gaming time on the Wii. But what I found out was they never used the Nintendo channel or the DLC. They've all been amazed and regret selling their Wiis when I show them things like the Tales of Monkey Island, Mega Man 9, Excite Bike, the two Lost Winds, and Bit Trip Void (and those are just the first line of my screens of downloads on my Wii). Then there's the long list of Virtual Console games: the Super Mario Bros, Zeldas, Super Mario Kart, A Boy and His Blob, etc.

If you have a Wii and aren't taking advantage of the amazing games and huuuge back catalog you aren't doing it right.

Re:The Reason to own a Wii (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30395766)

Screw the virtual console, install homebrew channel and get some emulators. Customizable controls, one-handed RPG gameplay and rom hacks ahoy! Not to mention tilt control on the few GBC/GBA games that support it, which is pretty tits.

THIS IS WHERE THE MARKET IS! (1)

Drakin020 (980931) | more than 4 years ago | (#30388758)

Seriously! There is obviously a market for people who like retro games, and the developers need to take advantage of this.

Do you understand how many people would buy a new 8-bit RPG game similar to something like Chrono Trigger? Holy crap, I'd jump all over that.

This is when games were about the story, and not about the shiny graphics.

Re:THIS IS WHERE THE MARKET IS! (1)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 4 years ago | (#30389182)

Chrono Trigger was 16-bit. 8-bit RPGs are significantly less popular nowadays... much more limited in story, graphics, gameplay, etc.

Re:THIS IS WHERE THE MARKET IS! (1)

Drakin020 (980931) | more than 4 years ago | (#30398040)

Bah your right man. My mistake, should have said "Sptite based games" or something.

Re:THIS IS WHERE THE MARKET IS! (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 4 years ago | (#30396294)

It's, tbh, the biggest reason for owning a Wii. Ironically, I think the Wii's digital download content does in fact make it the truest hardcore gamer system because it has all the best classics and remakes and they're not at full game prices.

Bleh. (1)

LocalH (28506) | more than 4 years ago | (#30390676)

WiiWare, SchmiiWare.

I'd like to see another major game company actually go back to the old hardware for a new installment of a classic game series. Sort of like what Sega did with Fantasy Zone 2 - they actually remade it for the System 16 hardware (albeit upgraded to 256KB of RAM).

Who would not shit their pants if there was a new NES or SNES Mario game, for example - one that you could not only buy on the VC, but also (for a hefty fee, of course) buy directly from Nintendo and play on their authentic console? Or if Sega actually made a "Sonic 4"?

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