Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Open Source FPS Blood Frontier Releases Beta 2

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the now-with-bloodier-frontiers dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 113

An anonymous reader writes "The open source FPS Blood Frontier has now made their beta2 release. From the article: 'After many months of development, and massive amounts of input from the public, we are proud to present you with the new release of Blood Frontier, v0.85 (Beta 2). This new version totally redefines and improves the game in many ways, creating a whole new style that makes it almost nothing like its predecessor.'"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

First (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30398868)

Post Shot!

It's "bloody" fun! (0)

WaroDaBeast (1211048) | more than 4 years ago | (#30398910)

Hope there won't be too many "buggers" taking advantage of exploits in this one game — since it's open source after all, they can fix the bugs pretty quickly, right?

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1, Insightful)

Ziekheid (1427027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30398928)

Not having a proper anticheat system deployed will be a bigger problem, like on warsow.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1, Insightful)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399052)

"proper anticheat system" = server admin who bans cheaters. problem solved.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (4, Insightful)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399232)

Any sufficiently advanced cheating is indistinguishable from skill.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (0)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399248)

Which renders cheating mostly irrelevant, as far as the other players are concerned.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (3, Informative)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399306)

It still ruins it kinda. Sure you get off the idiots who run around at 100x speed aimbotting and killing everyone, but discreet use of esp hack that shows you where enemies are or if someone is coming behind you will still give major advantage to the cheater. It will not ruin the game completely, but it still makes it kind of stupid.

Actually this is and will always be a major problem with open source online games. You don't even need to debug assembly and create a hack for it, you just need to edit the source code and build your own client. Open source anti-cheating system has the same problems too, and in addition open source community would probably yell against locking down the client with such system. Sure, server admins can still ban the obvious cheaters, but this is one of the things commercial games (and commercial anti-cheating software) will always have advantage over open source games, at least until we can actually just render the player screen on server and transmit it over the internet.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (4, Interesting)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399370)

Actually this is and will always be a major problem with open source online games. You don't even need to debug assembly and create a hack for it, you just need to edit the source code and build your own client.

Not always.

It can be solved by not sending to your client any information you shouldn't know as player or character.

It's fricking hard, but not impossible.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399582)

Isn't that on similar level of "hard" (perhaps even on greater...) to simply streaming the image to client with sufficiently low latency?

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30402728)

I think Half-Life used to do this. The wall hacks would only work for people near corners and what not. Any further away and you couldn't see them. I guess it used some fairly basic, but fast occlusion detection for players and only sent locations of players that were nearly in sight anyways.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1)

erikina (1112587) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399660)

Not even close. As long as computers are better at tasks than humans, the issue remains.

i.e. Think about an aim-bot. A computer is going to be more accurate and faster than a person with the same data. And even if you do the whole streaming-game thing, bot likely will still exist, that process the stream and emulate user actions far quicker than a human could

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399776)

A computer is going to be more accurate and faster than a person with the same data.

If you've actually got the algorithms to back that up, you'd be a pioneer in AI.

Want to prove it? Dial Goog-411. That's right, that's Google doing voice-recognition. And their massive cluster still sometimes has to make you wait a few seconds while they try to figure out what the hell you said.

So, getting back to what you said:

Think about an aim-bot.

There are generally going to be two things happening here:

Either you've discovered a surefire way to distinguish real targets from noise, in which case, the army probably wants to talk to you... ...or your aimbot is going to both be too perfect at headshotting people, and it'll make stupid mistakes that only a bot would. This is where it becomes painfully obvious to a good admin and/or good server-side passive anti-cheat what's going on.

I'd also suggest you look into the Robo-Olympics, and various programming competitions, and the general failure of AI in single-player games. Again, it is in general either not possible to do better than a human, or it's so obviously better than a human that you get banned.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399894)

It's not really hard to make aimbot work so that it's not so obvious, it's only bad cheats that just jump to point to enemys head and shoot. It's obvious of course. But it's trivial to add smoothness and human-like errors to the movement. The data is there. Client knows where enemy is (because it has to be drawn). It's a matter of few cpu cycles to calculate the new direction to aim at and make command to shoot. No human can possible, ever, work that fast.

Another problem is ESP, warnings and other such cheats that do not directly interface gameplay, but give cheater a huge advantage because he gets a lot more info than other players. Then it's just up to him to act in a way that isn't so obvious.

Only the stupid cheaters are caught by server admins. And the actual non-cheating, but good players get kicked by trigger happy admins. There IS need for anti-cheating software.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30400414)

ESP? things like wallhacks? i think nexuiz has a method to prevent such cheats.

It's true, a good cheat can use "hacks" and get away with it, but how does anti-cheating software detect and deal with cheats?

One game which suffers hugely from cheats is Urban terror, most servers have precious few admins, no voting enabled, and a playerbase too stupid to simply leave when they're being mown down by a blatant aimbotter, and it's not even open source. Compare that with tremulous, where popular servers are generally well policed and voting is virtually never disabled, an active community and server operators who care can actually work quite effectively against cheats. Trem has the kind of people playing who will not only spec and demo something suspicious, but record a video of said demo with showtris to catch people out and shame them. I guess commercial games have much less to gain from a community.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 4 years ago | (#30405688)

it's trivial to add smoothness and human-like errors to the movement.

At which point, it just becomes an arms race. Add a human-like delay, and a human can win. Add "human-like" misses, and chances are, they'll show a predictable pattern.

Client knows where enemy is (because it has to be drawn).

There are several ways to fool this kind of cheat, however. One possibility (making it up as I go) is to send false information about an enemy position, such that it likely won't be drawn (behind/in a wall, or with an invisible model) and watch for clients that immediately snap towards that target.

Another problem is ESP, warnings and other such cheats that do not directly interface gameplay, but give cheater a huge advantage because he gets a lot more info than other players.

To a certain extent, you can't really do anything about this. For example, if your game is something like Doom 3, so you've got a lot of darkness, or maybe you've got a nice sniper spot that's hidden by HDR bloom, you might have a player who is just very observant, or you might have a player with worse hardware so they have to turn effects off, or you might have a player who deliberately turns those effects off (and maybe loads bright orange models for the other players) in order to see.

On the other hand, aside from the misdirection I've mentioned, one thing that helps a lot is to not send information the player doesn't need. For example, Counter-Strike traditionally sends positional information to all players, all the time. One of the many admin mods only sends updates for players you'd be able to see/hear.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1)

Dragonslicer (991472) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401230)

A computer is going to be more accurate and faster than a person with the same data.

If you've actually got the algorithms to back that up, you'd be a pioneer in AI.

Want to prove it? Dial Goog-411. That's right, that's Google doing voice-recognition. And their massive cluster still sometimes has to make you wait a few seconds while they try to figure out what the hell you said.

I would think that there's a slight difference between determining the vector from one known object (the local player) to another known object (an enemy in the local player's viewport) and doing voice recognition.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1)

erikina (1112587) | more than 4 years ago | (#30410140)

If you've actually got the algorithms to back that up, you'd be a pioneer in AI.

You're joking, right? The theory behind an aimbot is pretty much as simple as it gets. And it's not like you have to kill every person on the map, you could easily use the aimbot to achieve "snapping" to the target or what not.

Want to prove it? Dial Goog-411. That's right, that's Google doing voice-recognition.

While I'm sure you've proved something, it has nothing to do with this. If the task isn't suitable for a bot, don't do it with a bot. You'll notice I also qualified it with a statement "as long as a computer is better at the task" part. Things like social element and group work is going to be too difficult.

your aimbot is going to both be too perfect at headshotting people, and it'll make stupid mistakes that only a bot would

It's a silly point, as it's all down to implementation of the bot. The bot doesn't need to do more than just assist you to be a huge advantage.

One such bot that comes to mind is: tibiabot [tibiabot.com] It only uses data accessible to a person, and only does actions a person could do. And it primarily sits on the background until needed. An example of its use is to automatically hit someone when they're on low health (before they have time to heal) or to automatically heal (with an optional rand(x,y)) delay on low health. Or you can use "combo" features where multiple people playing will all target the same person automatically etc. And even to automatically heal a friend, something that would normally go missed because a player is too focused on something else. It can make a beginner player far more effective player than an advanced player in battles. And is all done without extra data.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30412630)

An aimbot that works from only an image would not be that easy, true but an aimbot that interfaces with the game state and simply reads player positions from there is trivial since AI agents already do that (of course usually with some artificial inaccuracy and delay to prevent them from simply wiping players out).

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30401286)

In fps games you cannot do that. For performance reasons, you will need to at least send the geometry data to the client. An aimbot say will be able to detect from that geometry data where opponents are on screen. And since this particular genre of fast fps is pretty stupid (in the sense of brainless, not in the sense of not fun), computers will always be better at it than we. At least people assisted by a bot will always outperform people not assisted by a bot. Some people take it this means it says something about the genre, others say you can solve this problem by simply playing with people you know and trust. And after all, chess didn't die after Deep Blue.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (2, Informative)

arQon (447508) | more than 4 years ago | (#30407716)

Since there's no "-50: Hopelessly Wrong", I'll sacrifice modding parent as Overrated to post a reply that will hopefully re-clue anyone who reads and believes it.

Even with access only to the data you "should know", it's still TRIVIAL to mod a client in ways that provide significant advantages. No offense, but parent has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, and obviously no actual experience in this area.

Rather than listing 20 or 30 trivial cases that disprove your claim, I'll just take the most obvious one.
An enemy is clearly visible a hundred yards away. I think we can all agree that that's "information you should have as a player", right? My client knows where he is, because it has to draw him. So, with some trivial math, my client is capable of instantly targeting him and shooting for me.

You say it's not impossible to stop cheating, just "hard". Start with that one, then we'll move on to the more complex cases...

(And no, even just streaming the game doesn't in any way resolve this, even if it wasn't impractical. Trivial image analysis will pick out the enemy player by motion, color, etc)

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30408996)

To get technical, it's a security trade off. For example, if player A sends extraneous information that B uses to cheat and see through walls, you could seek to minimise the information and [almost] stop cheating.

But this is actually an inversion of opportunity to cheat. Now player B could cheat by sending even less information, say, than is essential for accurate gameplay. Perhaps appearing to travel quicker than usual, or just difficult to shoot by not travelling consistently.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1)

dmbasso (1052166) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399888)

Actually this is and will always be a major problem with open source online games.

Actually, for some genres, an authentication scheme based on PGP's web of trust could be used to restrict who is able to participate on a match. Anybody that is obviously too good to be true could be collectively banned. Those who can't be subjectively detected, don't hinder the gameplay.

If I had the time, I would implement something like that for Frozen Bubble... (oh, but I *hate* Perl)

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30400040)

Hmm that web of trust gave me an idea.

What if you could rank player skill, say 1-3 + G, where 1=less skilled than me, 2= as skilled as me, 3= more skilled than me and G= Griefer

Then using some sort of smart algoritm and web of trust check what grade other players gave this player, if everyone thinks someone is dominating then perhaps he doesn't fit on your server, but should play with others that are dominatingmost players, on the other hand if he gets rank 3 even with other great players, then perhaps he is cheating. This also gives a ranking (like a chess ranking, or a Go ranking) and a consistency point*.

*= a player that have been ranked by many long time accounts gets a higher consistency grade, so if you start a new account to grief players you will have low consistency untill enough players have rated you, if those players are newly created they will give you low consistency , while if they themselves have high consistency they will contribute more. If you have too many G rating you will of course not be allowed on most servers. And some servers will require that you have a certain consistency to be allowed to play. Add in slashdot meta-moderation for more fun :-)

Spurious G ratings for experienced players (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30400512)

If you have too many G rating you will of course not be allowed on most servers.

But if an experienced player of previous games in the same genre ends up randomly matched with less skilled players due to too few games played to establish an Elo ranking, expect a significant number of spurious Gs due to the vast skill differentials. Let's say Jin8, one of the half-dozen players worldwide who have achieved the "Grand Master" grade on Tetris The Grand Master 3: Terror-Instinct, has just signed up on your puzzle game server. He could play falling block games almost with his eyes closed, as shown in the famous video [youtube.com] starting at 5:10. Blink, one of the respected members of Hard Drop Forum [harddrop.com] , isn't quite as skilled as Jin8, but he can still clear 40 lines in a hardcore Tetris clone in under 30 seconds (compare my 60 second time and casual players' 120 second times), and even videos of him "sucking" at a casual Tetris game [ustream.tv] are probably far better than you could do. Would they be a 3 or a G?

And some servers will require that you have a certain consistency to be allowed to play.

Then how does a new player earn consistency if very few servers allow players who haven't already earned consistency to play?

Arika presents invisible Tetris (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30400428)

Anybody that is obviously too good to be true could be collectively banned. [...] If I had the time, I would implement something like that for Frozen Bubble

So you like puzzle games, and you want to ban players who appear too good to be true. Would you end up banning Jin8 from playing Tetris? He's actually that good [youtube.com] . (Fast forward to 5:00 and watch for 20 seconds and be amazed.)

Re:Arika presents invisible Tetris (1)

dmbasso (1052166) | more than 4 years ago | (#30400792)

As I said, it's not me that bans, it is the collective. If the guy is notorious for being good, he would not be banned, even if I do vote for banning him. And for what I am familiar with, you follow other's gaming abilities develop, from sucking to good. So if a player instantly starts playing awesomely, something is wrong for sure.

As our anonymous friend replied above, this scheme can help identifying players grades [I also thought about the kyu's and dan's of Go! :-) ]. I am pretty sure Jin8 would find boring playing with me, as I find boring playing with some newby folks in Frozen Bubble.

Re:Arika presents invisible Tetris (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401092)

As I said, it's not me that bans, it is the collective.

And it's not me that lacks the distinctive singular and plural for "you"; it is post-1650 English.

So if a player instantly starts playing awesomely, something is wrong for sure.

Unless the game is a sequel or clone, as the game of the article appears to be of the Quake series. Of course a player who was an expert at Quake 1, Quake 2, Quake 3, and Quake 4 will instantly start playing Quake 5 awesomely. Jin8 was an expert at Tetris the Grand Master and Tetris the Absolute: The Grand Master 2 before he started playing this game. Likewise, a Go player in a dan skill level will instantly start playing awesomely on a new Go server.

Re:Arika presents invisible Tetris (1)

dmbasso (1052166) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401434)

As I said, it's not me that bans, it is the collective.

And it's not me that lacks the distinctive singular and plural for "you"; it is post-1650 English.

Would you care to elaborate? English is not my primary language.

So if a player instantly starts playing awesomely, something is wrong for sure.

Likewise, a Go player in a dan skill level will instantly start playing awesomely on a new Go server.

The problem at hand is 'new user with good skills', in which existing users with similar skills would be pleased and willing to play with. Nevertheless, inferior players would still be able to restrict him from playing with them.

Re:Arika presents invisible Tetris (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401658)

Would you care to elaborate [about English's lack of distinctive number in second-person pronouns]? English is not my primary language.

Some languages have multiple words for you that distinguish singular from plural. For instance, Spanish has tu/te singular, usted/lo/la polite singular, and ustedes/las plural. German has du/dich singular, ihr/euch plural, and Sie polite. After a look through your recent Slashdot posting history, I see you appear to be familiar with places that speak Portuguese, so I'll look that up on Wikipedia: tu/te singular, você polite singular, vós/vos plural, vocês polite plural. English, on the other hand, has only you. It used to have thou/thee singular until the 17th century when it began to pass out of use.

The problem at hand is 'new user with good skills', in which existing users with similar skills would be pleased and willing to play with. Nevertheless, inferior players would still be able to restrict him from playing with them.

And my point is that a lot of casual players wouldn't be able to tell an expert from a griefer in this case. Look at all the YouTube comments accusing NOV's TGM2 video, Jin8's TGM3 video, and others like them of being fake.

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 4 years ago | (#30400044)

Is there no such thing as sanity checking for this kind of thing? "Player has shot the last five enemies in the face at exactly the same level below the (team coloured?) helmet. He's probably got an aimbot running." or "Player was in this room, he's now in the courtyard, why the hell wasn't he in the corridor before that? Wallhax."

Re:It's "bloody" fun! (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30412596)

Strangely we see all kinds of abuse in Spring but noone seems to bother altering the engine itself to make a map hack.

Is it fun? (3, Interesting)

nacturation (646836) | more than 4 years ago | (#30398942)

Judging this book by its cover, this looks like a remake of what I used to play more than a decade ago with Quake 3: Team Arena. I watched the video, looked at the website, but all of the improvements listed there boil down to either move better, or kill more stuff. Anything actually original about the gameplay that makes it Killzone 2 kind of fun?

Re:Is it fun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30398998)

Fucking spoil sport.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

bob5972 (693297) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399006)

If it's open source I'm sure some crazy person somewhere will invent new and weird gameplay mods you can try out. Eventually one of them has to be awesome...

Re:Is it fun? (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399318)

You're totally correct about crazy and weird [youtube.com] at least.

Re:Is it fun? (3, Informative)

Ziekheid (1427027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399012)

Despite looking great, Killzone 2 isn't THAT much fun. It's the killer graphics that made it a hit. I agree with you that it looks a lot like the oldskool games I played back in the day, like most opensource games. This isn't really suprising since most of them run on a heavily modified Quake2 or Quake3 engine (this game isn't though). There should've been some actual gameplay in the trailer to get a better impression.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399510)

Despite looking great, Killzone 2 isn't THAT much fun. It's the killer graphics that made it a hit.

It's more than just the graphics. Engineers who can repair items, plant sentry turrets, or the ability to launch flying sentries. Medics who can heal/revive teammates or drain energy from the enemy. The ability to plant spawn points can really make a difference in the game balance too. Saboteurs and cloaked snipers, while not that unique, rounds out the player balance. There's also how it seamlessly switches between the different game types (Assassination, Search & Retrieve, Search & Destroy, Bodycount, and Capture & Hold) where most other games reset the entire level.

All in all, Killzone 2 does look great but I find it to have a fair bit of gameplay innovation as well.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

fuzzix (700457) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399608)

It's more than just the graphics. Engineers who can repair items, plant sentry turrets, or the ability to launch flying sentries. Medics who can heal/revive teammates or drain energy from the enemy. The ability to plant spawn points can really make a difference in the game balance too. Saboteurs and cloaked snipers, while not that unique, rounds out the player balance...

Yeah, Enemy Territory is great.

Huh? What the fuck is "Kill Zone"?

Re:Is it fun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30404034)

Yeah, Team Fortress is great.

Huh? What the fuck is "Enemy Territory"? And while we're at it what's your point? If a multiplayer mode existed before is it worthless when another game implements something similar?

Re:Is it fun? (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#30405338)

So it's Tribes circa 1998?

the ability to launch flying sentries.

Oh, excuse me, Tribes with the Shifter v1 mod.

(That actually also describes Battlefield 2142 and probably a dozen other games.)

Re:Is it fun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30406680)

Terra Nova Strike Force Centauri had that feature in 96 also.

Kids these days...

Re:Is it fun? (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 4 years ago | (#30410262)

So it's Tribes circa 1998?

the ability to launch flying sentries.

Oh, excuse me, Tribes with the Shifter v1 mod.

(That actually also describes Battlefield 2142 and probably a dozen other games.)

Must be, because obviously Killzone 2 is simply a clone of Tribes with no unique gameplay or features.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30412682)

That would actually be a major selling point around here.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399180)

nah, looks like another FPS tuned for a 13-old with a caffeine and sugar high...

Re:Is it fun? (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399586)

So how come nobody make a killer open source single player game? every time I see an article on open source gaming all I see are a bunch of Quake 3 Arena clones. Why not something with a story to it? Nobody is expecting a free bunch to come up with something Bioshock quality, but there is plenty of players who want to do more than run around like a chicken with its head cut off blowing rockets up everyone's butts you know.

Hell make a game with humor, like NOLF, or see how totally insane you can make the enemies, like Serious Sam. It would give the open source guys a chance to cook up some killer AI, and possibly even move the genre forward. I know I personally wouldn't give a crap if the graphics were 2004 era if you cooked up some killer AI that would give a good fight without the stupid "rubberband" AI like certain companies make (I'm looking at you EA).

So how come there isn't any badass single player FOSS shooters? Surely there are plenty of players that would enjoy a good single player, and there has to be developers that want to do more than copy Q3 Arena,yes?

Re:Is it fun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30399666)

The content required is probably exponentially higher, and good content is hard to get for free.

What's the difference? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30400558)

Anonymous Coward wrote:

good content is hard to get for free.

This isn't the case for computer programs, as shown by the free software movement over the past two decades. So why is it the case for meshes, textures, maps, audio, and scripts?

Re:What's the difference? (1)

Tekfactory (937086) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401534)

Because Creative/Artist types want to get paid, good reliable artists are hard to find.

I lost one of my best 2D artists to a Flash Game developer.

Maps might be easier to get if Textures were already available, and scripts you might be able to get if the scripting tools were easy enough to attract writing types.

I don't know enough to say much about the lack of audio out there.

There are good royalty free meshes and textures available on the web for a fee, anyone good at modelling usually finds a way to make a buck off of it.

Free software has paid contributors (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401776)

Because Creative/Artist types want to get paid, good reliable artists are hard to find.

Programmers also want to get paid, yet many work on free software for free in their spare time, and some even get paid by big companies to develop free software like Linux, Qt, Firefox, and OpenOffice.org. I'm still not seeing the cause of the difference between the executable and nonexecutable portions of a game here.

Re:Free software has paid contributors (1)

Tekfactory (937086) | more than 4 years ago | (#30402274)

But are any of those paid OSS contributors working on games?

I'd seriously like to see a set of Free as in Speech/Beer 3D Elements developed (Soldier, City Block, Assault Rifle, Gunshot Audio and Run/Jump/Walk animations for the Soldier) that any developer could plug into their game as a basic level and see if their engine works correctly. The level should have stairs, portals (doors/windows), and things to jump on. This should allow you to test opening/closing doors, occlusion, indoor and outdoor lighting and effects.

I kind of imagine them as a Hello World or Teakettle (3D modelers Hello World) for game programmers.

Unfortunately I haven't been sucessful enough in finding 3D modellers for my own project to be able to gift art resources to the community.

Re:Free software has paid contributors (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30402680)

But are any of those paid OSS contributors working on games?

Not that I can think of, but that's why I'm asking what's the core difference between free games and other kinds of free software that makes free games less conducive to paid contributions. Is it because you can't build a business model around selling support to medium and large businesses? In that case, free game developers would need to start marketing their products to arcades and Internet cafes.

Re:Free software has paid contributors (1)

Tekfactory (937086) | more than 4 years ago | (#30403100)

I don't know, I think you're going to find more support in the Netbook and Phone market. Sure they might not pay much, if anything for the OS, but they're still selling a product and the end user might want to play games on the bus, train, plane, or waiting at the airport as much as the next guy.

When I bought my Droid it didn't come with 1 game! It comes with the market that lets me buy games and apps, but am I expected to believe that Verizon couldn't pony up for one Tetris/Chess/Checkers clone on a $299 phone?

I think your Internet cafes are mostly going to cater to the websurfing, email, facebook crowd. Those kinds of users might play Flash Games in the browser, but necessarily expect there to be any games on the machine.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

Nathrael (1251426) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401016)

AI

You've already answered your own question. Writing a proper AI is damn hard.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401280)

If you RTFA'd you'd see that a single player campaign, with co-op support, is in the works.

Looks like it will make a great Quake 3 Arena replacement as-is, can't wait for single player and co-op. I especially like the nice graphics, very different from the sub-par to downright shitty graphics that are common on FOSS games.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 4 years ago | (#30406166)

I actually DID RTFA (I know, but I got bored) but EVERY ONE of these type of games say "single player coming soon" and you know what? Either nothing ever comes of it or you get a totally lame ass "single player" like you have for Q3 (which this is obviously a ripoff of) with lame "bots" that are nothing but oversized target dummies.

So lets be clear: A single player game is NOT bots, or the same CTF and deathmatch maps with target dummies. It has a story, it has characters, it has missions, and goals, and things to do other than "blow the fuck out of x number of people".

A game like this will NEVER have a decent single player, not if you spent the next decade on it. Because Quake 3 was NEVER MEANT to be anything but MMO, and anything tacked on top of it will be just that, tacked on top of it. Even the shittiest $10 bargain basement single player game will run circles around it, which is just sad IMHO. All you ever seem to get for Linux "gaming" is the same old tired ass Quake 3 crap with have seen over AND over AND over again and again and again. At this point Slashdot might as well just put as TFA "And here is yet another Quake 3 ripoff, what a surprise". Because if anybody actually wanted to play Quake 3 they could just play Quake Live and be done with it. What a waste.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30412888)

It's almost impossible to get people to work on a single vision without paying them. Everybody has ideas and wants to contribute but for a proper original work you need something consistent. The reason so many FOSS games are clones of popular games is because the vision of "let's make an opensource clone of game X" is easily understood and everyone knows the result.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399892)

But since they'll all be off playing Team Fortard 7 or Modern Wankfare 9, I expect that Blood Frontier, like all Open Source games, is played only by the developers and three guys in Lithuania.

Re:Is it fun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30400744)

But since they'll all be off playing Team Fortard 7 or Modern Wankfare 9, I expect that Blood Frontier, like all Open Source games, is played only by the developers and three guys in Lithuania.

awwww. Did the spy sap your sentry a few too many times?

Re:Is it fun? (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#30405114)

Has a terrible UI, too. I had a debate with one of the game programmers last time this got posted to Slashdot. (Why!???! Is it really that slow of a news day?)

Shoved it in a blog post if anybody cares: http://blakeyrat.com/2009/02/stupid-slashdot-exchange/ [blakeyrat.com]

Re:Is it fun? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30412702)

They have to be like that. I play Section 8 and many people whine about combat being too slow in that game because you don't get one shot twitch kills and whatnot (especially how they can't be the hero and wipe out a whole squad just with their 1337 skills when the obvious solution to that problem is to bring your own squad). I've seen a video of MW2 being played with dual shotguns, it never seemed to take more than one shot to kill a player. It wasn't so much a firefight as a game of hide 'n seek where the first person to see the other won. It's what I hated about Counter Strike.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

Eraesr (1629799) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399234)

Well, Quake 3 was fun in the day and it still is fun today (see Quake Live).
If this open source game mimics the gameplay of Quake 3, it's something I could enjoy.

What I'm wondering about though is what this game offers beyond what Quake 3 (Quake Live) offers. Graphically it looks pretty much on par with Quake 3, but then we're talking about a 10 year old game here. Since the sourcecode for the Quake 3 engine is released under GPL, I don't see what the point of this project is, as they could simply build their game on top of the Quake 3 engine.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399240)

I'd say it's noticeably worse than Q3 graphically. Remember it's not only about the engine, also art assets.

Re:Is it fun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30400462)

Graphics aren't all that important, as long as the gameplay is good, the thing with Cube2 engine based games(and cube engine ones too) is the physics feel crap, movement just sucks, when compared to id tech based games.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401296)

And Quake's art isn't under a free licence, so if we're comparing the art, it's no longer true to argue "there's no point because there's already something just as good under GPL".

Re:Is it fun? (1)

DreamsAreOkToo (1414963) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399526)

I didn't play Killzone 2. What made it so good?

Re:Is it fun? (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399588)

I didn't play Killzone 2. What made it so good?

See my other post [slashdot.org] . You should play it. It just feels right. Everything's fluid and natural.

Maybe, but tagged !quake3 (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399784)

From the wiki [sourceforge.net] :

The game is a single-player and multi-player first-person shooter, built as a total conversion of Cube Engine 2

That alone adds a dimension that simply won't be there in Quake 3: real-time, multiplayer map editing, on the server, while others are still shooting each other.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

RenHoek (101570) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401646)

this looks like a remake of what I used to play more than a decade ago

This! I mean it's wonderful that many talented coders donate their efforts into games like this. But what we need is some open source designers, graphic artists and such.

The game may be fun, but when I look at the screenshots, all I see is the same blocky maps and ugly textures that I've seen 10 years ago.Due to this, I myself and probably a lot of others are not even going to download it and give it a try. It might be the most _fun_ game on the planet, but it does need a visual 'hook' to lure people in to try the game.

Same with Spring (TA clone). It's great that people put time and effort into something that could be really fun, but installation troubles, bad graphics and stupid UI design turned me off so badly that I didn't want to go further.

Take something like 'Plants vs. Zombies'. The technical aspects of the game are extremely simple. Images: some stretching, fading and 4 frame animations, not even 3D. But the _game_ is wonderful and everybody I know has played it. Not because it's fun, because you don't know if it is until you're at least halfway through the game, but because the game _looks_ fun and they paid a lot of attention to details like the user interface and such.

Re:Is it fun? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30412906)

The bad graphics in Spring are mostly caused by not being a clone of TA but a rip-off. The common mods like BA are straight up ripped material from an ancient commercial release.

What do you mean with installation troubles though? At least in Windows it's just doubleclicking the installer and hitting next a few times.

Re:Is it fun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30408806)

this looks like a remake of what I used to play more than a decade ago with Quake 3: Team Arena

And Quake 3 was awesome, and no deathmatch-style FPS since has had the same gameplay.

And all the new games will be poor abandonware with their centralised game servers. Arrrrrr!

"almost nothing like its predecessor" (1)

CountBrass (590228) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399130)

So not really a beta then if it's been changed so much that it's nothing like the 1st beta release.

More like an alpha release and they're still sorting out the requirements.

Re:"almost nothing like its predecessor" (1)

Deltaspectre (796409) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399168)

No, really, it's betta

(Say it out loud)

Subject (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399174)

It looks interesting from the video, but I'm tired of playing Quakelikes after all these years. And I only played Quake for the first time about five years ago.

Clones and similar games are inevitable, of course. I just wish someone would start cloning other hallmark FPS games, like Serious Sam, Doom, Perfect Dark, etc. I'd really like to see some sort of espionage-based FPS out there in open source; something like Splinter Cell, Perfect Dark, or Rainbow Six. Fun things like cloaking devices, remote cameras, etc.

But since Christmahanukwanzaa is coming up, I'd like to ask Santa for a true-to-the-spirit-of-the-original TRIBES remake. I still play that game nowadays but it isn't as much fun without new blood - and the game makes it very difficult to get new players to come in (thanks to the multiple barriers to entry such as a ridiculous number of mods, custom patches, unofficial master server (because the original was shut down), etc.

Re:Subject (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399274)

Don't count on clones of "other hallmark FPS games" that you mention (at least not on any bearable level of quality)

Quakelikes are easy to make not only thanks to engines for the taking but also relatively easy game asset creation (it helps that there are lots of map makers, itself thanks to higher relative ease of making deathmatch map than interesting single player level)

Well, perhaps Serious Sam at some point, that can be made more or less procedurally.

Re:Subject (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399322)

Tribes2's been reactivated thanks to tribesnext, but it's basically on life support again thanks to one particularly sociopathic "competitive" player.

Serious Sam HD is out and supposedly has a reworked netcode so it'll work better now. It's basically a 1:1 with new graphics and a new engine as far as I know but tbh when it comes to Serious Sam I'm fine with that. Some singeplayer is worth replaying.

Re:Subject (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30402434)

Perfect Dark was a rubbish Golden Eye sequel. Console FPS' *suck*

They already made this game (0, Flamebait)

assemblerex (1275164) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399184)

It's called quake 3

Re:They already made this game (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30399532)

No, it's called Quake Live

Ugh (1)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399206)

Another unoriginal arena shooter. Sure it looks very pretty but it doesn't do anything that hasn't already been done a million times before.

Please stop making these now.

Looks dull (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30399460)

The level design still looks uninspired, which is a problem shared by almost every free game (World of Padman is an exception). How does mapping for Cube 2 engine compare to Unreal and id Tech engines? If it's similar enough, perhaps I'll do something for the project.

Re:Looks dull (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30401502)

press E from inside the game, that's how the mapping differs from traditional engines. there are actually some really impressive maps for saeurbraten which i'm sure they could adapt for bf

What about warsow?! (2, Informative)

arosas (904929) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399740)

Feel free to mod this post as flamebait, but I feel it's time to rant about the Open Source gaming community. It seems to me whenever there's a new Open Source FPS that comes out, it's just another pathetic Quake clone. Sure the trailer videos *look* cool, and sure the screenshots are rendered at high resolution, with all the bells and whistles enabled. All is good until it comes to the actual gameplay. It's disappointing when all the freetards (excuse my french) drool over another cheezy clone (merely because it's Open Source, but not of it's merits alone) that's no different from the previous hundred clones that came before it. Boring and unoriginal.

Which brings me to my point: WHAT ABOUT WARSOW [warsow.net] ?! This game has been out for years, it's free, the source code is GPL'd, runs on windows/linux/mac, and above all the gameplay takes the Quake shooters to a whole new level [wikipedia.org] . In all of my 15+ years of gaming, warsow is by far the most complex and elegant FPS to date. Imagine playing quake2/quake3, now imagine that on crack. That is warsow. It's not another lame re-skinned quake clone like it's predecessors. A quick search on slashdot shows only one post referencing it... ONE POST!!

The community is small and has been diminishing over the past couple of years. Which is quite surprising for a game with such immense potential. My only guess is this: the game is too hard. Yes I will admit that the learning curve is steep, but that's half the fun right there! You would think a community of opensource folks (who love to tinker with their own systems, to learn and read and gain a better knowledge of the inner-workings of their respective systems) would be chomping at the bit to take on a game that requires some sort of learning. If you're willing to spend 5+ hours trying to decipher an archaic perl regex, you shouldn't break a sweat trying to learn how to rocket jump over the period of a half an hour or so.

You would think a community that looks down on proprietary cookie-cutter products would embrace originality and innovation in their games, but it's starting to look like the Open Source gamers are painfully similar to their proprietary counter-parts. Same cookie-cutter crap as before, only difference being the price of their engine. </rant>

Re:What about warsow?! (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399856)

Then quit whining and submit it as a story. Do it every day until some bored editard finally runs it. Then you'll get to whine about all the noobtards that are ruining your game. Everybody wins.

Re:What about warsow?! (1)

Joehonkie (665142) | more than 4 years ago | (#30400272)

Yeah, I was really curious how this compares to Warsow. Warsow is a really solid project and doesn't have the crazy balance issues stuff like Nexuiz seems to have. It also takes the Q3 formula and tweaks it just enough to give you something new, which impresses me.

Re:What about warsow?! (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 4 years ago | (#30404350)

Warsow is, as I see it, a Quake clone that adds walljumps & some extra movement skills. Every weapon is a weapon that's in Quake, with the exception of the Gauntlet/Machinegun hybrid.

Re:What about warsow?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30405234)

Aside from wall jumping, which was done much better in both Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy, Warsow is the same as any generic deathmatch style FPS.

Re:What about warsow?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30405412)

You complain about pathetic Quake clones and then promote Warsow. ROFL.

Re:What about warsow?! (1, Interesting)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#30406800)

Yes I will admit that the learning curve is steep, but that's half the fun right there!

Uh, wrong.

Re:What about warsow?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30408320)

It's disappointing when all the freetards (excuse my french) drool over another cheezy clone (merely because it's Open Source, but not of it's merits alone) that's no different from the previous hundred clones that came before it.

Thank you so very, very much. As a game designer who specialises in aFPS design and works in the Quake community, I cannot begin to express how frustrating it is to see FOSS nerds get the vapors over trash like Nexuiz and OpenArena just because of licensing.

The community is small and has been diminishing over the past couple of years. ... My only guess is this: the game is too hard. Yes I will admit that the learning curve is steep, ...

You are absolutely correct. You would be *amazed* to see how much of the playerbase in the combined FPS market (both aFPS and tFPS) will avoid *anything* remotely challenging like the plague. This is why almost every new multiplayer FPS keeps lowering the skill ceiling - the average player doesn't WANT to learn. They'll look at a game as nothing more than an way to kill time or some means to socialise, it's a coincidence if the game is actually any good.

So in order to bring in and keep this large section of the playerbase, we have to 'dumb down' the game so as to to prevent the decent players from driving away the idiots who 1) don't want to put in the effort to learn and 2) will therefore flee anything that won't hold their hand when they go up against players who will actually expend effort to improve. This is why you'll see things like randomisation in general, attempts to eliminate the ability to establish map control, spawn shields, UT-style overly granular 'balanced' weaponsets and movement systems systems that are hell bent on keeping anyone from moving faster than a newbie.. And that's just a small slice of the worthless crap that crops up in aFPS games, I'm not even touching 'tactical' FPS games like the CoD series. :|

You know what the saddest thing is, though? We _have_ to do this in order to survive. The market gets more and more saturated as time goes by and everyone wants a slice of the growing playerbase. Put another way, if you don't cater to people who don't want to learn, you won't have a playerbase. Compare QWTF's playerbase to TF2's, compare how many play CPM vs QL, even how many play Tribes vs the Battlefield games, I dare you. I will admit that most designers won't be aware of exactly what they're accomplishing when they arbitrarily lower the skill ceiling in a game, but it is something that I will deny that they _need_ to do in order to ensure the popularity of a project.

... but that's half the fun right there! You would think a community of opensource folks ... would be chomping at the bit to take on a game that requires some sort of learning.

You're forgetting that FOSS nerds (that same group that would be willing to 'spend 5+ hours trying to decipher an archaic perl regex') generally suck at FPS games *and* are obnoxiously petty. This becomes a problem when you have such an individual handling the ruleset and game design of a project, usually due to the project being started or maintained by a single programmer. I'll admit that I have seen the attitude crop up in projects led by mappers, though, so pettiness isn't restricted to technical types. :) So what happens is that this incompetent lead will watch for anything they can't do, understand or could give an experienced player an advantage over them and call it a cheat, an exploit or just plain declare that it 'looks stupid'. I swear, I'll never forget the time I caught a maintainer declaring timing items a cheat..

- I actually give a shit about my chosen discipline, I'm in gamedev and I so very badly want to get out of it

Re:What about warsow?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30408506)

but it is something that I will deny that they _need_ to do in order to ensure the popularity of a project.

Oh, that should be 'that I will not deny', sorry. So much for a coherent rant. :P

Q3A remake? (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#30399798)

Looks like a low-quality Q3A remake.

I don’t think it can beat Q3A CPMA (and Defrag [youtube.com] ) though. Especially not with the XreaL engine [xreal-project.net] and High Quality Quake models and textures.

!opensource (1)

hweimer (709734) | more than 4 years ago | (#30401202)

This is not an open source project. From data/textures/readme.txt:

(C) 2007-2009 Blood Frontier Team, all rights reserved.

The "textures" package included in Blood Frontier may only be distributed
with the Blood Frontier package. Redistribution or repacking outside
this context without the author's consent is strictly prohibited.

If you want a real open-source shooter that rocks, try Nexuiz [osreviews.net] .

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30401322)

last I checked You couldn't run on walls in quake 3 ?
You all really should give it a try its quite fun
as for graphics well if you want graphics go play crysis
the player models ad hud guns WILL Be replaced

~Homicidal blood Frontier Channel Troll and sometimes helper

As an FPS gamer (1)

joocemann (1273720) | more than 4 years ago | (#30403162)

... I'm always curious why the open source FPS games look like they are about 7 or 8 years behind the closed-source industry.

Its like they're not even trying to compete. Go to the Game Developers Conference, guys... Take some notes... See what the top devs are doing in the future and start doing that NOW. Then you'll catch the wave at the right point.

open source FPS always catch my attention long enough to notice this consistent failure to get with the times.

Re:As an FPS gamer (1)

DEmmons (1538383) | more than 4 years ago | (#30403938)

i think the most obvious reason would be that id software traditionally releases their older game engines to open source when they roll out one that is two generations newer. you can't say that isn't nice of them. on the other hand, it leads to open source gaming being full of projects that start with, say, an older quake engine, and try to add modern features to it (some of them do look good, but so far none have really challenged the current mainstream leaders). you would think this approach would lead to games that had familiar graphics but new and innovative gameplay, but that doesn't actually seem to happen much. i'm not sure if the open source FPS scene just needs more contributors, or is waiting for inspiration, or it's something else, but as with any free and open source software, i'm still thankful for the efforts and contributions that are being made and shared. there's a ton of potential in it and i'm sure we'll see more than space dungeons and deathmatches in the future.

Re:As an FPS gamer (1)

DEmmons (1538383) | more than 4 years ago | (#30404140)

someone's going to point this out to me anyway if i don't mention it, but Blood Frontier itself isn't based on Quake. (i didn't know that until a couple of minutes ago). naturally that makes half of my post irrelevant to TFA. Since i like Sauerbraten, and this game appears to actually have a story, i think i'm gonna have to look into it. i do think work on a new engine is necessary to make open source gaming all it can be, and the cube 2 engine is pretty neat, especially when editing on-the-fly. it's not designed to compete with Unigine, obviously, but i do think it's a step in a good direction. and now i'm done with this lame replying to self stuff.

Re:As an FPS gamer (1)

arQon (447508) | more than 4 years ago | (#30408176)

The problem is assets, not code. A single competent developer can easily turn even something as old as the original *QW* engine into something that is technically on par with anything currently available, even massively-overhyped "awesome" engines like crysis.

A single competent developer can't make 400MB of high-quality textures though, or model and animate 30 monsters, or create the 500 sounds a game needs not counting the voices of humanoid creatures, and so on.

Even if you have several artists/modelers/etc capable of producing the sheer VOLUME of content you need, the chances of even one of them being in same class as a "pro" are very slim; and the chances of them being able to put in the same 10 hours a day for multiple months (or even years) that a dev house can are zero.

Re:As an FPS gamer (1)

joocemann (1273720) | more than 4 years ago | (#30411730)

A single competent developer can easily turn even something as old as the original *QW* engine into something that is technically on par with anything currently available....

If this were true, I would think most developers would do so with the freely available older engines. That isnt' the case. Companies like Epic sell their Unreal Engine to many companies. If it were so simple, people wouldn't need to buy.

Or maybe my facts aren't perfect in that assumption. I'm just a speculating gamer. Tell me something about this biz. :)

Re:As an FPS gamer (1)

joocemann (1273720) | more than 4 years ago | (#30411678)

dude... big entertainment (yes, these GREAT big games, like GTA, Gears of War, Modern Warfare, Uncharted, etc.... They take millions of dollars to develop. GTA 4 cost TONS and was worth every penny.

They gotta be driven by profits, and people gladly pay for good games. Its not something that really *needs* to be done for free. People love games like they love everything else they do a lot of in life. You like to skate, you buy skateboard and wheels n stuff. YOu like to rock climb, you get into it, you buy the gear and spend money going places that are nice for it. You get into some solid new games and, well, why not pay for it!

I'm not saying its not a great option to have or for people to do. I'm just saying that we all pay gladly, and aside from early buyers being kinda treated like beta testers on many games, we're pretty happy! Games are REALLY good now. They are a little too easy, but still VERY good. I'm in movies now man. That's what its like. I'm in a van damme movie. I'm all hero.

Its nuts. Games are worth every penny. Artists earn it hardcore. The coders make stuff happen thats never been done in software before. They make visual fx that are amazing.. the whole industry drives shader standards and gfx processor development needs... even when many are pirating some games, it doesn't matter really. The great companies that invest a lot end up taking the cake so long as its not wasted on jets and CEO bonus. I don't even know if that kinda stuff happens in the game industry. I'd guess the good companies are just playing smart.

All hail iD, Epic, EA (yeah, i hate ot say it), Infinity Ward, Nintendo, capcom, acclaim, sony, naughty dog. etc etc etc. Thank you!

Where is the game in FPS? (1)

Botched (1314867) | more than 4 years ago | (#30403354)

Ok, I hope not to be modded troll for this, but probably will be.

I have played a lot of FP shooters. The innovation from one generation to the next in terms of graphics and stability has been wonderful, brilliant, and lacking in magic.

What is missing, and what could make the next big FPS is gameplay. Anyone who wants to do it right needs to sit down, play with 3-5 friends some Renier Knizia board games
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamedesigner/2/reiner-knizia [boardgamegeek.com]
as an education is what gameplay could be, compared to what it is. Don't call me a crank if you have not played Modern Art, Tigris and Euphrates, and Through the Desert.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?